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Robespierre
09-27-2013, 01:12 AM
Welcome Gree staff. First, this is not a hostile thread. This thread was created so we could have a "get to know you better" experience.

First, take a look at the lovely beach where we'll be meeting today:
http://www.ambergristoday.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/page_full/image/cnn-world-best-beaches.jpg
Isn't it great?

Behind you is our beach bartender Tommy. His mai-tai is excellent. Just let him know what you want to drink, and put it on my tab.
http://www.phuketemagazine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Bartender_phuket-emagazine1.jpg

So let me introduce myself. I'm Robespierre, but my friends call me Robes. Since we're all friends here, call me Robes, please.

I've been lurking around the forums for a while, but I just got a little more involved as things seem to have heated up here a little bit.

I wanted to get together with you to explain a few things, and maybe get a little insight from you as well.

First we really appreciate the work you are doing. Without you, all of the issues we have would be going unresolved. I have been thinking about it a lot, and I imagine that you have a very difficult job as being the interaction between the company and the customers--you're really "where the rubber hits the road" so to say.

Oh! our drinks are here...you all ordered the same one? Well anyways...
http://www.xoedge.com/ImageStage/Objects/0003/0062338/large_image.jpg

I wanted to let you know that we recognize that you have an incredibly demanding position, working in between so many different groups of people: the regular customers, extremely agitated customers, your own staff, the development staff, and of course, management.

And between the customers and the management, their goals are at nearly opposite spectrums. Within this current game design, the customers are trying to get as much experience gaming for the least amount of cost, where management is looking to get the most revenue for the least amount of expense. That's business school 101, and nobody here is expecting any less.

And you are caught in between these two competing groups: trying to implement management's plans while having to deal with direct customer feedback, and nearly all of it around here has been of a negative nature recently.

So let's address the negativity...just get it out in the open. From what I can gather, it's frustration. And frustration can be a very difficult situation to deal with, both as a customer and having to work with those frustrations as you address the issue at hand.

So where do these frustrations come from? I think it has to do with consumer expectations. To be frank, the customers around here expect that they will get what they pay for, be it in time, community building, or in actual cash transactions. Now once cash transactions enter the relationship, consumers expect a higher degree of satisfaction for the goods and services that they are purchasing.

The expectation that the product or service will be as advertised and will perform as it's supposed to do is paramount. This is the bug issue. You know what they are much more than I do, so I won't try to act like I know it all. But it is a major issue...people are paying for an experience, and when basic functions are not up to par, you can expect some negative feedback.

Oh Cool. Tommy sent over another round. Try these out, they're great.
http://img4-3.myrecipes.timeinc.net/i/recipes/su/08/09/mai-tai-su-1835314-x.jpg

The second major area of frustration is transparency, and can be linked to accusations of trying to use unfair tactics to increase revenue. My primary examples are the crate events, and the frozen leaderboard in the latest WD event.

In the crate event, where using gold options to "open" a crate initially gives out tokens, later stages of the event have lower occurrences of receiving the token; instead you get a "booby" prize. First, none of the booby prizes are disclosed, so we have no way to know of knowing what we may get. Second, there are no disclosed odds of what you will get on the increasingly "difficult" chances of getting a crate. Failing to disclose odds on a gambling event that you control may have more consequences than just customer dissatisfaction. Games of chance and luck are heavily regulated for the above reasons.

The second transparency concern is that in the last WD event, the leaderboard was frozen for the final hour or two of the event. Some factions saw that they were near the next prize tier, and made a gold-funded push to increase their points to make it into the next prize tier. The frozen leaderboard enticed those factions to make the push, only to be using frozen data and splash screens (despite repeatedly hitting the "refresh" button) stating their current position when the live data would have been more accurate. Some factions made it past the actual prize tier, yet there were factions that were relying on the frozen leaderboard and splash screens stating that they were comfortably in the next tier...those hundreds of players are justifiably upset because what was shown to them was not accurate, and violated their consumer expectations.

WD points are also an issue. How these numbers are generated perplexes quite a few of us, and the fact that players that have been here the longest are given the fewest points demonstrates either an uncaring attitude or a bald-faced attempt to generate more revenue by giving lousy points. I hope this isn't the case.

Now I know that these kinds of things may not be at your level to address, but perhaps our conversation today could be one of many where we get together for a chat to go over the current "customer barometer." Some of us are still here, and we are noticing the growing occurrences of going to raid a base, only to find it completely naked...the player had made the ultimate scorched-earth decision to leave nothing behind for anyone.

We enjoy this game, and it can be better. We are aware of the pressures on your team to make revenue goals, as any business should. We can help with revenues when we have a solid product that is fair to the players. So, I hope that would be a primary goal that could address a lot of issues here.

And lastly, hang out around here and get to know us better! Nobody is expecting any special favors from you, but if we could get to know your team a bit better, I'm sure things would warm up nicely. I get to know the business providers in my community, and those relationships have benefited both of us. So let's work on building those community ties so stepping in the forum isn't like jumping into an icy lake.

I'm glad we had the chance to get together, and feel free to introduce yourselves and let us know what kinds of things you do around the office--plenty of us probably do the same thing, so we have more in common than you would expect.

Take care, and I look forward to your feedback.

Warmest regards.

pb23
09-27-2013, 01:25 AM
* hic * * hiccup *

commander Don
09-27-2013, 02:01 AM
Nice thread. Educated complaining goes a long way.

SOF
09-27-2013, 02:11 AM
Smooth... I commend you for this thread. Well put indeed. Tomorrow if my support issues are still ignored for a week my thread will not be so kind however.

Dutchie
09-27-2013, 03:39 AM
I hope I am not too late for my free drink and I hope it isn't a trick that lands me with the drinks bill afterwards whereby I am paying for everyone in this room! I know some people in here feel like that....

Now let me tell you a little story of a diamond geezer that I met through the game. This guy is one of the nicest persons that one could meet. He has everything... beautiful wife, lovely children, a high powered individual who is at the top of the tree in his business, yet very down to earth and certainly not short of a bob or two.

Through our interaction in the game, I got him to join our faction and the things he did for us were nothing short of spectacular. In one WD event, he even dragged us up that leaderboard all on his own. Naturally, he wanted to play with the big boys and we made sure he did. When he said he was ready to, we ensured he went to the best and he went to one of the SUP teams. We kept in contact and even though he is a very busy man, he came by on occasions and said hello to his old team mates.

Now one day recently he opened his iTunes statement and he was a little surprised to see the amount he had spent on this game, a simple game that requires no thought and has no AI. You see, it is quite easy to get carried away and like most, he didn't check his statements very often, but when he did, he added it all up and was shocked at how much money he had actually given to GREE. He made his decision there and then, not to spend another dime on this game. Now I can hear GREE thinking... but why?

It is simple really... Value for money.

Now it depends how you calculate this value for money. I think GREE calculates it as $ spent / time spent and why I think they keep throwing event after event upon us, so that we are playing the game constantly, in order to get this perceived value for money. This value for money is very subjective because it is different for each person, in how much they spend on the game both in terms of time and money, as well as what you compare it to. Of course, if you compare it to other forms of entertainment, it might be different. However, I prefer to compare apples with other apples.

So if you compare it like for like with other games, such as the old one-off pricing model with games like Diablo 3, it is very expensive in terms of value for money, even when using the $ spent / time spent equation. It is also very expensive in terms of value for money when you compare it with newer subscription models such as WoW. So in essence, this new freemium model with in-app purchases is the least value for money out of all the pricing models in the gaming industry but here is the caveat... it all depends on YOU. The decision is now in YOUR hands as to how much YOU are willing to pay and it is evident that some people keep on paying without really understanding how much they are parting with until they open that dreaded iTunes statement. I think 80% of people who pay to play would not be able to tell me exactly how much they have spent on this game and when they do check, they would get some form of bill shock.

Now to go back to my dear old friend, he still has some gold left in the hopper from his gold bonuses that he got from GREE and he has made the decision to come back to our faction for the final few events until his gold runs out. Our faction isn't just about spending as much gold as one can. We have strategy and tactics in the form of guides that I wrote and currently writing for the FLTQ because as a faction officer, it is my duty to ensure that my team members who do buy gold, spend it effectively rather than wastefully which definitely occurs in the top 50 factions.

Now once that gold is gone, he will probably say his goodbyes, but I can assure you that with all the money that he does earn and have, even with the amount he did spend on this game, he just doesn't see any value for the money he has spent on it and I tend to agree.

I do spend money on gold in this game, but I limit my purchases and for me, a month's play equates to one night out and since I have children, I don't go out very much these days. Even with this amount, I still do not see it as value for money when I compare it to other pricing models in the gaming industry and that is what I compare it to, not what GREE likes to compare it to, which is time spent on this game.

jonmischler
09-27-2013, 04:24 AM
I agree with both you and Dutchie.

Before I start, I'll have a double shot of your finest scotch, Tommy. Two ice cubes.

But I must disagree, Robes. I love your attempt to have a get together here with Gree and it's associates, and trust me, I would love for it to happen. I couldn't ask for better weather, either.

http://stillplayinghouse.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/af-scotch-lg-98170046.jpg

Ah, my drink made it. Thank you, Tommy....he put far too much ice...how long has he been bartending? Not to offend, of course. Let me just take a couple of these out....okay.

Anyway, Gree doesn't seem to want to open up and get to know us. You must have read the article. Gree brings in 2.3 million dollars USD per 3-4 day live event. They make their money either way. Everyone threatens to quit and stop spending gold and it hardly ever happens. If they can continue to keep things this way, they can get away with sorry programming errors and less-than-pathetic customer service. As long as they offer inflated units and over-the-top events, people will be attracted. It's become a snowball effect. Top players took the top spots, and everyone else followed suit. The top tens control the best stats and get the best experience and every other faction/player tries to catch up. It's all psychological. Humans naturally want to be the best. Even if they continued to offer a bad quality experience, those that get sick of it will be filled in by others. They found an amazing business model, and the only way to win is to not play.

Dutchie, you make a great point about the legitimacy of the amount of gold you get vs. how much you actually spend. $20 goes nowhere in this game. Back when Modern War started, the amount of units you could get vs. average stats of players equaled out so a little gold actually went a long way. But now that everyone over spends and constantly competes against each other, inflation is moving too fast. It is honestly the players fault that gold worth has dropped so much. We spent too much and got too strong. Why would Gree lower the price of gold if they know you will buy it for the price it's at? Think about it.
In 1998, Chicago citizens boycotted the purchase of any motor vehicle fuel product for 24 hours. The gas companies lost so much money from one day of no sales, gas prices dropped over $1 the next day. We can only fix inflation by not spending as a whole. Since lower factions will take advantage and secretly spend to beat higher factions if this did happen, the higher factions would have no choice but to defend themselves, so spending would still continue. You can't put up an armistice in this situation. We'll just have to ride out the storm, sadly.

As a side note, I'm not complaining. I've been offered spots in Top Ten factions, including SUP and iBob. I'm under level 90 and almost half a million stats. I have spent $20 since I started playing in April. I didn't join a big faction, therefore I get jealous about the units I don't get. It's natural. But I get over it, because I play with strategy, so I can play for free. Always remember, you don't have to do it.

I am a cow
09-27-2013, 04:27 AM
Welcome Gree staff. First, this is not a hostile thread. This thread was created so we could have a "get to know you better" experience.

First, take a look at the lovely beach where we'll be meeting today:
http://www.ambergristoday.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/page_full/image/cnn-world-best-beaches.jpg
Isn't it great?

Behind you is our beach bartender Tommy. His mai-tai is excellent. Just let him know what you want to drink, and put it on my tab.
http://www.phuketemagazine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Bartender_phuket-emagazine1.jpg

So let me introduce myself. I'm Robespierre, but my friends call me Robes. Since we're all friends here, call me Robes, please.

I've been lurking around the forums for a while, but I just got a little more involved as things seem to have heated up here a little bit.

I wanted to get together with you to explain a few things, and maybe get a little insight from you as well.

First we really appreciate the work you are doing. Without you, all of the issues we have would be going unresolved. I have been thinking about it a lot, and I imagine that you have a very difficult job as being the interaction between the company and the customers--you're really "where the rubber hits the road" so to say.

Oh! our drinks are here...you all ordered the same one? Well anyways...
http://www.xoedge.com/ImageStage/Objects/0003/0062338/large_image.jpg

I wanted to let you know that we recognize that you have an incredibly demanding position, working in between so many different groups of people: the regular customers, extremely agitated customers, your own staff, the development staff, and of course, management.

And between the customers and the management, their goals are at nearly opposite spectrums. Within this current game design, the customers are trying to get as much experience gaming for the least amount of cost, where management is looking to get the most revenue for the least amount of expense. That's business school 101, and nobody here is expecting any less.

And you are caught in between these two competing groups: trying to implement management's plans while having to deal with direct customer feedback, and nearly all of it around here has been of a negative nature recently.

So let's address the negativity...just get it out in the open. From what I can gather, it's frustration. And frustration can be a very difficult situation to deal with, both as a customer and having to work with those frustrations as you address the issue at hand.

So where do these frustrations come from? I think it has to do with consumer expectations. To be frank, the customers around here expect that they will get what they pay for, be it in time, community building, or in actual cash transactions. Now once cash transactions enter the relationship, consumers expect a higher degree of satisfaction for the goods and services that they are purchasing.

The expectation that the product or service will be as advertised and will perform as it's supposed to do is paramount. This is the bug issue. You know what they are much more than I do, so I won't try to act like I know it all. But it is a major issue...people are paying for an experience, and when basic functions are not up to par, you can expect some negative feedback.

Oh Cool. Tommy sent over another round. Try these out, they're great.
http://img4-3.myrecipes.timeinc.net/i/recipes/su/08/09/mai-tai-su-1835314-x.jpg

The second major area of frustration is transparency, and can be linked to accusations of trying to use unfair tactics to increase revenue. My primary examples are the crate events, and the frozen leaderboard in the latest WD event.

In the crate event, where using gold options to "open" a crate initially gives out tokens, later stages of the event have lower occurrences of receiving the token; instead you get a "booby" prize. First, none of the booby prizes are disclosed, so we have no way to know of knowing what we may get. Second, there are no disclosed odds of what you will get on the increasingly "difficult" chances of getting a crate. Failing to disclose odds on a gambling event that you control may have more consequences than just customer dissatisfaction. Games of chance and luck are heavily regulated for the above reasons.

The second transparency concern is that in the last WD event, the leaderboard was frozen for the final hour or two of the event. Some factions saw that they were near the next prize tier, and made a gold-funded push to increase their points to make it into the next prize tier. The frozen leaderboard enticed those factions to make the push, only to be using frozen data and splash screens (despite repeatedly hitting the "refresh" button) stating their current position when the live data would have been more accurate. Some factions made it past the actual prize tier, yet there were factions that were relying on the frozen leaderboard and splash screens stating that they were comfortably in the next tier...those hundreds of players are justifiably upset because what was shown to them was not accurate, and violated their consumer expectations.

WD points are also an issue. How these numbers are generated perplexes quite a few of us, and the fact that players that have been here the longest are given the fewest points demonstrates either an uncaring attitude or a bald-faced attempt to generate more revenue by giving lousy points. I hope this isn't the case.

Now I know that these kinds of things may not be at your level to address, but perhaps our conversation today could be one of many where we get together for a chat to go over the current "customer barometer." Some of us are still here, and we are noticing the growing occurrences of going to raid a base, only to find it completely naked...the player had made the ultimate scorched-earth decision to leave nothing behind for anyone.

We enjoy this game, and it can be better. We are aware of the pressures on your team to make revenue goals, as any business should. We can help with revenues when we have a solid product that is fair to the players. So, I hope that would be a primary goal that could address a lot of issues here.

And lastly, hang out around here and get to know us better! Nobody is expecting any special favors from you, but if we could get to know your team a bit better, I'm sure things would warm up nicely. I get to know the business providers in my community, and those relationships have benefited both of us. So let's work on building those community ties so stepping in the forum isn't like jumping into an icy lake.

I'm glad we had the chance to get together, and feel free to introduce yourselves and let us know what kinds of things you do around the office--plenty of us probably do the same thing, so we have more in common than you would expect.

Take care, and I look forward to your feedback.

Warmest regards.

Don't mind if I do!

Ghost-12
09-27-2013, 07:51 AM
This thread is by far one of the best i have read since i joined this forum!
Educated, Gives you an inside on what`s going on with Old players frustrations and new players as well...
From crate events , Wd points to frozen leaderboards! it has it all.
-I will add one more which I dont get tired of repeating every time i get a chance.
"Customer supports" Needs some drastic improvement! Perhaps add a chat option where players can actually
get their issues Fixed on the spot without having to wait 5 days for an email with the same
exact words " your ticket is now closed, we will forward your issues to the developers", Then you are left with
nothing! try finding comfort by reading others problems and telling yourself that he had it worse...

I thank you Robespierre for posting this awesome thread, Hats off to you sir!

Dutchie
09-27-2013, 07:58 AM
...Humans naturally want to be the best. Even if they continued to offer a bad quality experience, those that get sick of it will be filled in by others. They found an amazing business model, and the only way to win is to not play.

Dutchie, you make a great point about the legitimacy of the amount of gold you get vs. how much you actually spend. $20 goes nowhere in this game. Back when Modern War started, the amount of units you could get vs. average stats of players equaled out so a little gold actually went a long way. But now that everyone over spends and constantly competes against each other, inflation is moving too fast. It is honestly the players fault that gold worth has dropped so much. We spent too much and got too strong. Why would Gree lower the price of gold if they know you will buy it for the price it's at? Think about it.

In 1998, Chicago citizens boycotted the purchase of any motor vehicle fuel product for 24 hours. The gas companies lost so much money from one day of no sales, gas prices dropped over $1 the next day. We can only fix inflation by not spending as a whole. Since lower factions will take advantage and secretly spend to beat higher factions if this did happen, the higher factions would have no choice but to defend themselves, so spending would still continue. You can't put up an armistice in this situation. We'll just have to ride out the storm, sadly.

As a side note, I'm not complaining. I've been offered spots in Top Ten factions, including SUP and iBob. I'm under level 90 and almost half a million stats. I have spent $20 since I started playing in April. I didn't join a big faction, therefore I get jealous about the units I don't get. It's natural. But I get over it, because I play with strategy, so I can play for free. Always remember, you don't have to do it.

What a great show of self restraint as well as choosing the path of strategy, but this is not a choice made by all. Although the business model is one of cleverly tapping into human nature and conscience, in the long run, I don't think it is a sustainable model. I already see prominent players leaving both in CC and MW due to inflated stats whereby the money that has already been spent on it yesterday, has even less perceived value today.

But you are right, the price point has been set and accepted by the players now. The pandora box has been opened and there is no going back. There have been threats of boycotts before, but by the very nature of this game and with the increased stats inflation, they will never happen as someone else will just leap frog them as they sit out an event.

But is does beg the question as to why one should spend money today, when a year down the line, I can get much better stats through stats inflation for the same amount of money. Akin, albeit the opposite but with the same results, to the deflationary period that has occurred in Japan in the last 20 years. Japanese people didn't spend money on the knowledge that the product would be cheaper a year later and so the vicious cycle continued until the BoJ came up with a plan to print money to infinity to stimulate inflation.

But I digress and it is obvious that players continue to spend on this game, in some cases in large amounts, because GREE have tapped into the human psyche of being the best and creating competition with one another through the social element of factions, regardless of the fact that their stats will be worth nothing in a year's time. Some are beginning to wake up and smell the coffee, others are too engaged and blinded to see for what this game really is. Doesn't matter either way, it is their choice as to what they do.

I, for one, once I am done with this game, will not buy into any freemium game model in the future whether this is by GREE or any other gaming company. It is far too easy to get sucked and then trapped into these games. I don't mind paying a one off fee or a fixed subscription model to a game that also has a social element to it, where it lends itself to a more even playing field rather than a race of who has the most money to spunk on it. These freemium models lend to a vicious cycle of gameplay that can turn into a very expensive habit if not checked properly as it is far too easy to let it get out of control as there are no controls or limits.

I am sure that there many other people who are thinking along the same lines. Once bitten, twice shy and that is why I think this business model is not sustainable in the long run. Time will tell!

Peace out!

MagnusDux
09-27-2013, 08:33 AM
Damit some people have truly too much time on their hands... Cheers!

I'll take shot of freezer vodka. Straight, no ice, no chaser.

And back to work.

jjm521
09-27-2013, 09:02 AM
Man, great post, and professionally approached. Great point on the crate events!

Bosc
09-27-2013, 09:34 AM
Very well put, well said, and to the point............. now off to the bank to get a loan for more gold

Killa Chunk
09-27-2013, 02:19 PM
I like it. bump

Evil Mastermind
09-27-2013, 03:14 PM
Valid points and I commend you on the efforts to keep it lighthearted and fun. However, I predict that your pleas will fall on deaf ears. Players have begged and threatened many times. All of the things you have requested would only reduce player spending. That is not within GREE's business model.

Keeping players in the dark is one of the easiest ways to promote increased spending. The other little "tricks" are done for the exact same reason. The frozen leaderboards, lack of odds on chance events, lower WD points and every other "hidden" mechanic is no accident. GREE knows exactly what they are doing and by the looks if it...it works.

I have to commend GREE on the creation of faction play. They no longer have to do all the work in order to promote spending. They have the players doing it for them. All they have to do now is dangle the carrot each time. Faction leaders/members push their players to spend in order to remain atop the food chain. VPP (virtual peer pressure) was pure genius GREE... pure genius I say.

Cheers,
Evil M. ;)

Dutchie
09-27-2013, 03:21 PM
Valid points and I commend you on the efforts to keep it lighthearted and fun. However, I predict that your pleas will fall on deaf ears. Players have begged and threatened many times. All of the things you have requested would only reduce player spending. That is not within GREE's business model. Keeping players in the dark is one of the easiest ways to increase spending. The other little "tricks" are done for the exact same reason. The frozen leaderboards, lack of odds on chance events, and every other "hidden" mechanic is no accident. GREE knows what they are doing and by the looks if it...it works. Cheers,Evil M. ;)Sad but true. They are in the business of making money and boy do they do it well. However over the long-term, I am sure it will eventually affect their bottom line as people see the error of their ways!

Evil Mastermind
09-27-2013, 03:34 PM
Sad but true. They are in the business of making money and boy do they do it well. However over the long-term, I am sure it will eventually affect their bottom line as people see the error of their ways!

It won't matter Mr. Dutchie. Players will come and players will go. Some big gold players will stop spending. Some medium gold players will increase spending to take their place atop the ladder. There is always a new gold player downloading the game at any given minute. Lastly, don't forget about the big gold players who's egos will never let them stop until game is gone. Some will never give up their position at the top until GREE takes the game away from them.

commander Don
09-27-2013, 04:54 PM
An intelligent start :)

Brummied
09-28-2013, 08:24 PM
Great stuff, shame the invited havn't arrived yet, hope they do...I'll have a coke pls Johnny in case I'm driving off soon...

London Town
09-28-2013, 08:48 PM
Well played Robes.

KFH
09-28-2013, 11:54 PM
nice job on this was well thought out, good thread

Badass action man
09-29-2013, 07:30 AM
Barkeep, scotch on the rocks please, lots of ice! (more ice equals less melting of the ice equals less dilution of the alcohol, u do need some water to bring out the full flavours of a good spirit but not very much at all)

I like the thread. A genuine attempt to make the game better. Sadly we have had many promises of improved transparency and better costomer service yet it has not come to fruition. Kicking the poor service habit is as tough as kicking any habit, try to quit sugar or sex or as many who spend their days on this game... try to quit touching yourself!. It is possible, it is just a monumental undertaking!. In essence it is simple, however doing it consistently takes patience, commitment and honest effort.

I would welcome a response from gree staff and would very much like to get to know the team, they have a tremendous product and it would be great for us to share the experience of its growth together. Supplier and consumer coming together to develop the product to its maximum potential.

Expediency in fault fixing, proper testing prior to release, reliabiity, transparency, and open lines of communication are not unreasonable requests from any consumer in any market.

Now in keeping with the "feedback sandwich" (+'ve -'ve +'ve). I would like to say we can all improve, in our tone on these forum threads myself included and hope that GREE will come to the party.

[The weather is nice here and that scotch went down a treat.]

All the best to my fellow gaming addicts. We have a good communnity filled with plenty of talented people who wish to improve our gaming experiences. Keep up the good work everybody. FIGHT ON!

Dutchie
09-29-2013, 08:03 AM
...I would welcome a response from gree staff and would very much like to get to know the team, they have a tremendous product and it would be great for us to share the experience of its growth together. Supplier and consumer coming together to develop the product to its maximum potential.

Expediency in fault fixing, proper testing prior to release, reliabiity, transparency, and open lines of communication are not unreasonable requests from any consumer in any market...


I'm not holding my breath as they could have chosen this path a long time ago. In reality, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. But from my experience with all the on-going issues at hand such as the gold purchase in game without confirmation; the freezing of the leaderboard in the last hour of the WD event; the constant moving of goal posts; the stats inflation making previous purchases totally valueless; the excessive pricing of gold and many more underhand tactics to entice this gaming community to keep spending untold amounts of money in certain cases, that don't represent value for money, point to a company that doesn't have its customers at heart, especially their high valued ones!

Now, I might be looking at this the wrong way. Maybe I don't see it, but from where I am standing, it is clear that they are not reinvesting their profits to improve the customer experience and customer service as a whole.

I could be wrong as I don't work there and don't know how they are run, but my perceived perception of this company is of one that tries to extract as much money as possible out of their customers before moving onto their next project. The freemium model in itself lends to this type of behavior.

Exxtraterrestrial
09-29-2013, 02:17 PM
****wow****

Serious F
09-30-2013, 04:47 AM
GREE knows exactly what they are doing and by the looks if it...it works.

Wrong.
If you take a look at the officially published numbers and recent developments in GREE corp you can see that their overall strategy doesn't work anymore.

Quarterly sales dropped...and will drop even further. I see a lot of the old heavy spenders who got sick of the recent stat inflation. Any new serious spending customer who checks the forum will see a never ending discussion about complaining, hacking, stat inflation and gree's failure in customer support.

Once I played several GREEd games. MW is currently the last one on my device now. I have tried to wake them from their slumber as many of us.
I got banned several times for speaking the truth and asking for answers.
I understand the purpose and the mechanics of freemium games like MW and still I see so many things in Greeworld that are just wrong.

They need a slap in the face! Maybe this will wake them up. The closed Gree offices around the world are the first signs of a struggle.
A struggle which was handmade.
Some techniques to pull money out of your pockets have been discussed.
There is more transparency in any casino of the world than it is in Greeland.

The non existent transparency and fishy errors we experience in this game will break your neck GREE.
But I guess the internal status of MW is already "cash cow"...milk them as long as they are willing to pay.
sad but true...I liked that game


Tommy...Long Island Ice Tea, please

honest Abe
09-30-2013, 06:32 AM
Actually, if you read the sellside research, the us is now in the black largely thanks to mw and ka (I haven't logged into ka in months, will not download any other gree games and mw is it for me). Their aggressive expansion strategy into other markets has now worked and the Japan ruling was a huge revenue hit. Given that the us business is now one of the few drivers of the business, it is shocking about the lack of customer service (I have months old tickets) and lack of protection for their ip (ie. same hackers are still running around). failure to fix these two things will kill the golden goose but they've been warned many times and done nothing, why should that change?


Wrong.
If you take a look at the officially published numbers and recent developments in GREE corp you can see that their overall strategy doesn't work anymore.

Quarterly sales dropped...and will drop even further. I see a lot of the old heavy spenders who got sick of the recent stat inflation. Any new serious spending customer who checks the forum will see a never ending discussion about complaining, hacking, stat inflation and gree's failure in customer support.

Once I played several GREEd games. MW is currently the last one on my device now. I have tried to wake them from their slumber as many of us.
I got banned several times for speaking the truth and asking for answers.
I understand the purpose and the mechanics of freemium games like MW and still I see so many things in Greeworld that are just wrong.

They need a slap in the face! Maybe this will wake them up. The closed Gree offices around the world are the first signs of a struggle.
A struggle which was handmade.
Some techniques to pull money out of your pockets have been discussed.
There is more transparency in any casino of the world than it is in Greeland.

The non existent transparency and fishy errors we experience in this game will break your neck GREE.
But I guess the internal status of MW is already "cash cow"...milk them as long as they are willing to pay.
sad but true...I liked that game


Tommy...Long Island Ice Tea, please

Drakhoan
09-30-2013, 12:43 PM
Excellent thread... double scotch please sir... no rocks please, i like it smooth!

9mm
10-01-2013, 10:29 AM
Wow the nicest thread written to Gree since I can remember. And still no response in 4 days, can't say I'm surprised though.

Jrich
10-01-2013, 01:08 PM
nice thread, i like your approach.
no surprise about the lack of comments from Gree/mods.
humorless robots I think.

senex morosus
10-01-2013, 01:49 PM
I dont know what's worse in KA. GREE support or the fact players think they have been warped to Medieval England and use words such as 'My lord' 'thou shall get thy vengeance'.

TheOracle
10-01-2013, 02:05 PM
Hello everyone, and thanks for the drinks. Let me buy another round for everyone.

http://i.imgur.com/C6CeePP.jpg

You've brought up a lot of very good points. Actually, I have to commend you because this post has a lot of good information and has very little to no false information or accusations. I'll try to address as many of your points as I can, though please understand that I'm speaking for myself (and my team members, specifically community and ticket-answering people) and not for everyone within the company or even for the people who make specific game design decisions.

Bugs

We hate bugs as much as you hate bugs. The more bugs in the game, the more tickets we get. The more tickets we get, the more work we have to do. If you've ever worked, you'll know that more work is not a good thing.

We have a diligent engineering team and a diligent QA team, but we have tons of game titles which we add new features to constantly (we have engineers working on new features every day, which then get sent to QA to test, which we then release). Because the games have all been running for so long, bugs can come up pretty easily as old features and new features conflict with each other. They're really doing an amazing job considering they're constantly creating new events, buildings, and maps for players.

Transparency

I understand the frustration when something changes in the game and you are not made aware of it. For instance, the leaderboard freezing in events (which has actually been implemented for a few months now) was a decision made by the design team. We should have better communicated this change to you guys as we do receive many tickets from confused players who stop playing the event because they believe the leaderboard is not counting their (or other players) progress. Regardless, when the leaderboards previously did not freeze, players

As with all games, certain numbers will always stay hidden. If you have played traditional RPG games, you will know that specific item drop rates of any bosses or monsters or how battle damage is calculated is usually not explicitly listed. Game designers have found that leaving an air of mystery around certain things keeps players more interested than if everything is revealed.

Anyways, we do thank you for taking the time to write all of that. Trust me when I say that we are very aware of how our customers/players feel about the game/events. We are the ones who meet with the designers, the engineers, and the product managers, to voice your concerns. It's a system of checks and balances, but we always try to let them know when certain things they're planning on releasing will have a negative impact on the players and we do always let them know player feedback (whether it is good or bad) when new events or features are released.

So, while we don't have time to hang out and talk too much, please know that we're constantly reading what you're saying and if we could make a game that gave players everything they wanted and still was the most efficient business model (as determined by other teams), we would. As is, we are only able to relay your messages and we are in charge of prioritizing what you guys care about the most as we can only fight to get so many features changed as we are one team in a system of many teams working together.

If you have any other comments or questions that you want me to address, please let me know and I'll try to get back to you in the next few days.

After reading that long post, I think you otter have another drink
http://i.imgur.com/34CKPUV.jpg

Lancerdually
10-01-2013, 02:07 PM
I dont know what's worse in KA. GREE support or the fact players think they have been warped to Medieval England and use words such as 'My lord' 'thou shall get thy vengeance'.
Noe that right thar is funE I tell ya....dunt care who ya r that thar is funEE

TheOracle
10-01-2013, 02:24 PM
-I will add one more which I dont get tired of repeating every time i get a chance.
"Customer supports" Needs some drastic improvement! Perhaps add a chat option where players can actually
get their issues Fixed on the spot without having to wait 5 days for an email with the same
exact words " your ticket is now closed, we will forward your issues to the developers", Then you are left with
nothing!

For issues when we send that message, there is nothing we can do for you. In these cases, the engineers have already been notified of this issue and they'll be working on fixing them. There's no way for us to push out a fix faster, so there's really nothing else we could say to you.

We also receive so much volume in support tickets that it would be impossible to maintain a chat queue. As in the previous paragraph, a lot of stuff that players write in for are either stuff that is working as intended or is being fixed so the chat would really be best for stuff like transfer issues.

Dutchie
10-01-2013, 02:43 PM
@TheOracle - Thank you for taking some time out from your hectic schedule to provide us players with a response to our concerns. Communication to your players is key and although we don't expect you to reveal all of the game mechanics as you correctly stated, just some snippets of what changes we can expect would be a good start. An example would be that of the new boss event to state that it has been increased to 100 bosses but with increased prizes, as well as the format of the new faction boss event.

Groetjes,
Dutchie

oacju
10-01-2013, 02:44 PM
Hi, Oracle. Quick question about free gold video offers. An answer would be greatly appreciated. In MW, you only need to watch 1 video to get 1 bar but in CC you need to watch 5. Why so many in CC? Is it because MW earns GREE more money than CC?

Dutchie
10-01-2013, 03:22 PM
The leaderboard freeze is a bad decision by the design team as for one it confuses and frustrates players as you have found out through increased volumes of tickets surrounding this particular issue, stated in your response. On top of that, the design decision is purely based not on just generating more revenue from the event but also in squeezing players dry around the different prize tiers and that is uncouth.

It seems to me that the design team have a lot to answer for, as they are perceived for being solely revenue focused and not very friendly towards player experience. I understand that your games need to generate revenue, but this is a huge turnoff and will damage long standing relations with the players, your paying customers. Does design think by being friendly to player experience, it will lower revenues? They might be pleasantly surprised if they were to do the opposite :)

Dutchie
10-01-2013, 04:15 PM
It is about striking the right balance and unfortunately the scales seemed to be tipping in one direction!

narsly
10-01-2013, 04:45 PM
Regarding this specific issue.. Have you guys ever thought about have a weekly or monthly "maintenance "day? Most GOOD games have this and the / us customers are happy with it.

Bugs

We hate bugs as much as you hate bugs. The more bugs in the game, the more tickets we get. The more tickets we get, the more work we have to do. If you've ever worked, you'll know that more work is not a good thing.

We have a diligent engineering team and a diligent QA team, but we have tons of game titles which we add new features to constantly (we have engineers working on new features every day, which then get sent to QA to test, which we then release). Because the games have all been running for so long, bugs can come up pretty easily as old features and new features conflict with each other

narsly
10-01-2013, 04:46 PM
More specifically this... "Because the games have all been running for so long, bugs can come up pretty easily as old features and new features conflict with each other"

demonfiter
10-01-2013, 04:48 PM
i dont know if this is the right page,
my question is how long does it takes gree support to respond to u almost been 24hours no respond and i havnt received my gems after i payed 49.99 usd.

Badass action man
10-02-2013, 12:20 AM
Hello everyone, and thanks for the drinks. Let me buy another round for everyone.

http://i.imgur.com/C6CeePP.jpg

You've brought up a lot of very good points. Actually, I have to commend you because this post has a lot of good information and has very little to no false information or accusations. I'll try to address as many of your points as I can, though please understand that I'm speaking for myself (and my team members, specifically community and ticket-answering people) and not for everyone within the company or even for the people who make specific game design decisions.

Bugs

We hate bugs as much as you hate bugs. The more bugs in the game, the more tickets we get. The more tickets we get, the more work we have to do. If you've ever worked, you'll know that more work is not a good thing.

We have a diligent engineering team and a diligent QA team, but we have tons of game titles which we add new features to constantly (we have engineers working on new features every day, which then get sent to QA to test, which we then release). Because the games have all been running for so long, bugs can come up pretty easily as old features and new features conflict with each other. They're really doing an amazing job considering they're constantly creating new events, buildings, and maps for players.

Transparency

I understand the frustration when something changes in the game and you are not made aware of it. For instance, the leaderboard freezing in events (which has actually been implemented for a few months now) was a decision made by the design team. We should have better communicated this change to you guys as we do receive many tickets from confused players who stop playing the event because they believe the leaderboard is not counting their (or other players) progress. Regardless, when the leaderboards previously did not freeze, players

As with all games, certain numbers will always stay hidden. If you have played traditional RPG games, you will know that specific item drop rates of any bosses or monsters or how battle damage is calculated is usually not explicitly listed. Game designers have found that leaving an air of mystery around certain things keeps players more interested than if everything is revealed.

Anyways, we do thank you for taking the time to write all of that. Trust me when I say that we are very aware of how our customers/players feel about the game/events. We are the ones who meet with the designers, the engineers, and the product managers, to voice your concerns. It's a system of checks and balances, but we always try to let them know when certain things they're planning on releasing will have a negative impact on the players and we do always let them know player feedback (whether it is good or bad) when new events or features are released.

So, while we don't have time to hang out and talk too much, please know that we're constantly reading what you're saying and if we could make a game that gave players everything they wanted and still was the most efficient business model (as determined by other teams), we would. As is, we are only able to relay your messages and we are in charge of prioritizing what you guys care about the most as we can only fight to get so many features changed as we are one team in a system of many teams working together.

If you have any other comments or questions that you want me to address, please let me know and I'll try to get back to you in the next few days.

After reading that long post, I think you otter have another drink
http://i.imgur.com/34CKPUV.jpg

A pleasant surprise to see you kicking back and enjoying a drink with the common folk. Hopefully we can entice you back here with the offer of positive tone, genuine feedback and constuctive intelligent conersation. Sadly I am on call so no scotch today, fighting a fire whilst intoxicated is not the brightest of ideas.

Barkeep ill have a virgin tequila sunrise.

Please do release a 'how to' on these new events before you release them, saves us running around like headless chooks for a week trying to figure it out. It keeps everyone looking forward to an event rather than the dread and sense of impeding doom being kept in the dark gives you (a bit dramatic but this is a bar and perhaps an ideal place hyperbole).

On a personal note. A confirmation on all in game gold spends is a must!, I made my first real world dollars in game purchase and bought my first in game vault of gold (after nearly a years free play). I bumped the screen and blew half of it in an instant. It was gone, bang!, just like this virgin tequila sunrise...
-mmm mmm delicious- Barkeep, another!.
The vault was to finish the ingame faction LTQ, instead I instantly upgraded my vault (useless as I had no cash to fill it with haha). At the same time my faction brother bought 2 vaults so he could cover me in our pledge to finish the LTQ. His credit card got charged but he did not receive the gold. So im taking it as an interrvention of evil spirits that doomed our pursuit of the 58000/60000 +30% GRD DEF unit. I sent the ticket days ago and still have not had it resolved (#965083) next round is on me if you can flex and get this issue resolved expediently.

Thank you for your continual efforts.

Cheers mate, God bless and all the best.

Badass action man
10-03-2013, 04:29 AM
it seems the next round is on me, got my gold back. Gold!

Drakhoan
10-03-2013, 05:14 AM
Hello everyone, and thanks for the drinks. Let me buy another round for everyone.

http://i.imgur.com/C6CeePP.jpg

You've brought up a lot of very good points. Actually, I have to commend you because this post has a lot of good information and has very little to no false information or accusations. I'll try to address as many of your points as I can, though please understand that I'm speaking for myself (and my team members, specifically community and ticket-answering people) and not for everyone within the company or even for the people who make specific game design decisions.

Bugs

We hate bugs as much as you hate bugs. The more bugs in the game, the more tickets we get. The more tickets we get, the more work we have to do. If you've ever worked, you'll know that more work is not a good thing.

We have a diligent engineering team and a diligent QA team, but we have tons of game titles which we add new features to constantly (we have engineers working on new features every day, which then get sent to QA to test, which we then release). Because the games have all been running for so long, bugs can come up pretty easily as old features and new features conflict with each other. They're really doing an amazing job considering they're constantly creating new events, buildings, and maps for players.

Transparency

I understand the frustration when something changes in the game and you are not made aware of it. For instance, the leaderboard freezing in events (which has actually been implemented for a few months now) was a decision made by the design team. We should have better communicated this change to you guys as we do receive many tickets from confused players who stop playing the event because they believe the leaderboard is not counting their (or other players) progress. Regardless, when the leaderboards previously did not freeze, players

As with all games, certain numbers will always stay hidden. If you have played traditional RPG games, you will know that specific item drop rates of any bosses or monsters or how battle damage is calculated is usually not explicitly listed. Game designers have found that leaving an air of mystery around certain things keeps players more interested than if everything is revealed.

Anyways, we do thank you for taking the time to write all of that. Trust me when I say that we are very aware of how our customers/players feel about the game/events. We are the ones who meet with the designers, the engineers, and the product managers, to voice your concerns. It's a system of checks and balances, but we always try to let them know when certain things they're planning on releasing will have a negative impact on the players and we do always let them know player feedback (whether it is good or bad) when new events or features are released.

So, while we don't have time to hang out and talk too much, please know that we're constantly reading what you're saying and if we could make a game that gave players everything they wanted and still was the most efficient business model (as determined by other teams), we would. As is, we are only able to relay your messages and we are in charge of prioritizing what you guys care about the most as we can only fight to get so many features changed as we are one team in a system of many teams working together.

If you have any other comments or questions that you want me to address, please let me know and I'll try to get back to you in the next few days.

After reading that long post, I think you otter have another drink
http://i.imgur.com/34CKPUV.jpg

See you guys... someone is listening and being your voice. Thank you for the response, may not be the detailed answeres everyone is asking for or as soon as people would like, but I appreciate "better late than never" and "better something than nothing"! .......... Oh, sorry got distracted by that beautiful lady there. I'll have another of your finest scotch and send over a martini for the lady, here's one large, keep'em coming barkeep.

Dutchie
10-22-2013, 02:55 PM
Like all good things, they eventually come to an end. I'm starting to take my 2 young daughters to the driving range now at the weekends and they love it. I am still below level 100, so I am not being punished yet, but I am sure that day will come and I will try to eek out the game play until the day where I drop it like a hot potato. I do choose my events wisely even after a year of game play because as you say, leveling is the worst thing you can do in this game :)

LosKevanos
10-23-2013, 08:39 PM
Well done :-)

bushobama
10-23-2013, 09:34 PM
Gree you chose a short term cash grab for what COULD have a been a long sustainable run of revenue through a quality well developed game. Whether the realization of that has set in yet, who knows.

CroftyB
10-29-2013, 07:10 PM
Robes......I love your posts and threads, some of the most intelligent and hysterical in the forum, thank you :D

CroftyB
10-31-2013, 05:44 AM
Gree you chose a short term cash grab for what COULD have a been a long sustainable run of revenue through a quality well developed game. Whether the realization of that has set in yet, who knows.

You are so right, but I doubt the realisation is there ;)
I would of loved to of had $210,000,000....the game would of been a lot different to the tripe it is has turned into.