PDA

View Full Version : Please cooperate GREE



genaks
09-17-2013, 08:33 AM
I know I'm not the big moneys or the billionaires or the bald zeemers of this forum but as a regular customer, I want to get my voice heard too. There were several recent events which prompt me write this.

I know many people don't realise how much improvements you've made behind the scenes but I do. We can clearly feel the difference in the game what it was an year ago and what it is now. You've managed to improve the customer service as well.

You guys extended the war by 6 hours and then rolled it back when faced with huge criticism. It was a great decision, one which brought relief to us and was more than welcome. But then you followed it up with another blunder, the worst according to me

You suddenly decide to reward to SOME people for the mess you had created. Not understandable and unacceptable. If you're planning to reward people, you should reward them all and not some, considering it was your fault which affected all the people and not the some of them only who were rewarded. Poor decision to say the least.

I know it won't matter much to you if I've stopped buying your virtual currency, but trust me every drop counts.

bald zeemer
09-17-2013, 08:51 AM
1. Your basic premise - that the solution implemented was a bad idea - is accurate.
2. The idea was implemented as a result of over-cooperation (implementing an idea that a couple of people on the forum supported on a loop, and went more or less unopposed). I think this brings a burden on the forum to start critically analysing ideas that are floated. Twice during the war gree listened to vocal customers, unfortunately in both instances that set of vocal customers had a poor grasp of the game, and were ignored by the broader community either through ignorance (nobody knew that people were requesting an extension to the war via ticket) or apathy (I'm guessing most people assumed Gree wouldn't listen to the broaden-the-tier idea, so didn't bother to look into it and/or post their thoughts/analyses [BigMoney excluded - he hit the nail on the head as soon as the idea popped up]).

GU7 F4WK3S
09-17-2013, 09:06 AM
I kind of half hoped that when I read expanding tiers what would happen would look like the following;

1st = Bonus Item
2nd = 1st prize
3rd = 2nd prize
Top 10 gets top 3 prize
Top 25 gets top 10 prize
etc etc

What they did was compensate a few and slap the majority.

rohan007
09-17-2013, 09:12 AM
I kind of half hoped that when I read expanding tiers what would happen would look like the following;

1st = Bonus Item
2nd = 1st prize
3rd = 2nd prize
Top 10 gets top 3 prize
Top 25 gets top 10 prize
etc

You think GREE is that kind? You think they love us?? :-P. They are just a company who knows how to run business and earn money. Nice way to earn the profit and not giving away much. Was expecting the same ****. :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P

bald zeemer
09-17-2013, 09:42 AM
I kind of half hoped that when I read expanding tiers what would happen would look like the following;

1st = Bonus Item
2nd = 1st prize
3rd = 2nd prize
Top 10 gets top 3 prize
Top 25 gets top 10 prize
etc etc

What they did was compensate a few and slap the majority.

I see where you're coming from, but doing this system still has the same effect.

There are a number of very powerful mods from this war (#3, #10, #100, wherever that mafia def mod was) and a number of borderline useless mods (#2, #50). Anyone who decided to go for a specific tier in order to get a good bonus could now well be put out. The teams pushing for t10 are fine in this instance, because they get another great mod. A team that pushed for t75, however, is being given a complete slap in the face.

How about a solution that would benefit all players equally (in the long run)?

Run a poll on a change to the game, the winning suggestion gets implemented.
Then it's a broad-based improvement of the game, therefore helping everyone. It is taking customer feedback, which Gree are clearly attempting to do (an admirable sentiment, unfortunately hasn't worked out fantastically this time). And it draws on the game-playing experience of the forum community - something that has been identified (correctly) as a shortfall in Gree's knowledge base.

TMI
09-17-2013, 09:50 AM
I see where you're coming from, but doing this system still has the same effect.

There are a number of very powerful mods from this war (#3, #10, #100, wherever that mafia def mod was) and a number of borderline useless mods (#2, #50). Anyone who decided to go for a specific tier in order to get a good bonus could now well be put out. The teams pushing for t10 are fine in this instance, because they get another great mod. A team that pushed for t75, however, is being given a complete slap in the face.

I'm trying to understand how the team that pushed for t75 got a slap in the face?

The way i'm thinking is: I'm in a t75 team, we liked the t75 prize, we worked with ip (gold) to achieve that prize. Ok, everyone is happy. Now, because of the lagging issues, etc., during the war, GREE gives my syndicate the t50 prize as well.
So in summary, i worked for t75 and i got that, as expected. In addition, i got a t50 prize.

is it that the "bonuses" were different depending where you placed, and that's why it's unfair?

bald zeemer
09-17-2013, 09:55 AM
I'm trying to understand how the team that pushed for t75 got a slap in the face?

The way i'm thinking is: I'm in a t75 team, we liked the t75 prize, we worked with ip (gold) to achieve that prize. Ok, everyone is happy. Now, because of the lagging issues, etc., during the war, GREE gives my syndicate the t50 prize as well.
So in summary, i worked for t75 and i got that, as expected. In addition, i got a t50 prize.

is it that the "bonuses" were different depending where you placed, and that's why it's unfair?

Yes, more or less.

The team that missed out on t100 gets a 10% output mod [an incredibly rare mod, and one that is highly valued].
A team that 'missed out' on t50 (ie, a team that pushed and achieved t75) gets increased payout from jobs [an incredibly common and borderline useless mod].

Essentially, by bumping everyone up you are handing out a range of prizes, but those prizes vary in quality so dramatically that it is more or less indistinguishable from the "some get a boost, some don't" situation we are currently in.

TMI
09-17-2013, 10:10 AM
hmm. ok. I think that's kinda stretching it though.
i still think a bonus is a bonus, whatever it is.

Ex. The birthday cake thing wasn't fair either then, because it was huge for me, but might not have even made it into someone's top 500 most powerful explosives, and so they essentially didn't get a bonus.

I was thinking maybe a %mod, like 1% to mafia attack would be most fair, because everyone's stats go up by the same percentage. but the gross numbers would be different depending on the pre-existing mafia attack.

I think no matter what is given out as a "bonus" it can be seen as being unfair, simply because ppl play the game differently (ex increase rob %, but some players rob, some don't). any one item may be used differently and affect their gameplay differently.

I'm starting to wonder, Is there a "fair" bonus then?
If not, what would be the "fairest", one based on %ages? It's hard to say.

Dr Girlfriend
09-17-2013, 10:14 AM
Yes, more or less.

The team that missed out on t100 gets a 10% output mod [an incredibly rare mod, and one that is highly valued].
A team that 'missed out' on t50 (ie, a team that pushed and achieved t75) gets increased payout from jobs [an incredibly common and borderline useless mod].

Essentially, by bumping everyone up you are handing out a range of prizes, but those prizes vary in quality so dramatically that it is more or less indistinguishable from the "some get a boost, some don't" situation we are currently in.

Still, that would be a fairer way to compensate everyone than the solution they came up with - which only compensates a few.

GU7 F4WK3S
09-17-2013, 10:19 AM
I'm not worried about or considering the prizes or mods. If you finished 59th you probably saved hundreds if not thousands of dollars and got the exact same result as the team that played/paid for 49th.

The screw ups were experienced by every player and syndicate in crime city. By reshuffling the tiers GREE is really just saying only select range were impacted and should get compensated. You fall into the fortunate few.

I would love to know the logic or lack thereof that went into this decision.

bald zeemer
09-17-2013, 10:21 AM
Ex. The birthday cake thing wasn't fair either then, because it was huge for me, but might not have even made it into someone's top 500 most powerful explosives, and so they essentially didn't get a bonus.
I can guarantee you it made it into everybody's top 500 explosives. An the uneven benefits aren't towards lower stat players, it is towards higher stat players - that birthday cake boosted my stats by about 2800, due to my mods.



I was thinking maybe a %mod, like 1% to mafia attack would be most fair, because everyone's stats go up by the same percentage. but the gross numbers would be different depending on the pre-existing mafia attack.
This comes close to having no effect whatsoever. It makes bosses easier to hit, sure. And again, those with better mods get better nominal results (since mafia attack mods compound with category attack mods). But winning and losing attacks and robs is based on a %, that would come very close to perfectly counterweighing the nominal benefits of higher stat players.


I think no matter what is given out as a "bonus" it can be seen as being unfair, simply because ppl play the game differently (ex increase rob %, but some players rob, some don't). any one item may be used differently and affect their gameplay differently.

I'm starting to wonder, Is there a "fair" bonus then?
If not, what would be the "fairest", one based on %ages? It's hard to say.
There's the rub.

And that's why I suggested a change to the game based on the poll. It will affect everyone equally, but improve their experience. Gree would apologise for errors by putting in a bit of work making a change to how the game is played, based on the opinions, arguments and expertise of it's most interested players. The relative effect player-to-player is nil - as per broad based handouts - but everyone is better off.

TMI
09-17-2013, 10:38 AM
just as a note. i know explosive cake would be relevant for everyone.
I was trying to refer to an item that has fixed stats, whether it be 10/10, 50/50, 100/100, 1000/1000, they may not make an effect on some players, depending on their pre-existing items.

bald zeemer
09-17-2013, 10:54 AM
just as a note. i know explosive cake would be relevant for everyone.
I was trying to refer to an item that has fixed stats, whether it be 10/10, 50/50, 100/100, 1000/1000, they may not make an effect on some players, depending on their pre-existing items.
Gotcha. A perfect example of this is the Daylight Runner, from an earlier round of daylight savings-related issues, that is certainly no longer of any relevance to a large number of players. :)

GU7 F4WK3S
09-17-2013, 11:02 AM
Gotcha. A perfect example of this is the Daylight Runner, from an earlier round of daylight savings-related issues, that is certainly no longer of any relevance to a large number of players. :)

I'm expecting to get another one this year.

genaks
09-17-2013, 11:04 AM
I'm not worried about or considering the prizes or mods. If you finished 59th you probably saved hundreds if not thousands of dollars and got the exact same result as the team that played/paid for 49th.

The screw ups were experienced by every player and syndicate in crime city. By reshuffling the tiers GREE is really just saying only select range were impacted and should get compensated. You fall into the fortunate few.

I would love to know the logic or lack thereof that went into this decision.

Agree.........

murf
09-17-2013, 11:09 AM
You think GREE is that kind? You think they love us?? :-P. They are just a company who knows how to run business and earn money. Nice way to earn the profit and not giving away much. Was expecting the same ****. :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P

They are giving away pixels...there isn't any "cost" to their prizes...and they control the value of these pixels by adjusting the value of the future prizes they give away.

offline04
09-17-2013, 12:24 PM
just start the next war with the end points achieved, therefore everybody gets his effort/money worth back and can determine how much further that effort goes. with apology/we are sorry item the issue won't be fixed for everyone...you actually would award the "fortunate" ones another time.

offline04
09-17-2013, 12:26 PM
on a side note, I am more frustrated with the kind of silence from Gree.

BigMoney
09-17-2013, 12:55 PM
I know I'm not the big moneys or the billionaires or the bald zeemers of this forum but as a regular customer, I want to get my voice heard too. There were several recent events which prompt me write this.

Too bad being a BigMoney or The Billionaire or bald zeemer doesn't get you any special attention from GREE, I could use it. :P


Run a poll on a change to the game, the winning suggestion gets implemented.
Then it's a broad-based improvement of the game, therefore helping everyone. It is taking customer feedback, which Gree are clearly attempting to do (an admirable sentiment, unfortunately hasn't worked out fantastically this time). And it draws on the game-playing experience of the forum community - something that has been identified (correctly) as a shortfall in Gree's knowledge base.

I'm sure you've seen the copy/pasted ticket response from "Chris J." They already believe the widening of the prize tiers was based directly on "player feedback", although GREE administrators themselves have said that such a forum-based poll system would be unfair because the majority of CC players are not on the forum (the majority of CC players don't score 20+ million IP either, but that's neither here nor there):

The danger in making decisions by commitee or polls is that the people on the forums are only a small fraction of the overall player base - we see a ton more via support tickets than we do on here alone. That's also why we can sometimes seem slow to respond - its rarely possible to please everyone so we have to collect info from all the sources we have and strike the best balance. In this case the initial call was wrong, we've definitely gotten some good feedback, and well be using it to help avoid similar things in the future.

Supposedly GREE received a huge outcry in tickets demanding for the syndicate war to be extended after the matchup snafu, which is certainly strange given the unanimous opposition to the idea (20+ pages) on the forum.

I do recall a very small number of players floating the idea to widen the prize tiers, which I I objected to initially, and had far more players agree with me on the forum NOT to widen the prize tiers. (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?68100-Syndicate-War-Un-Extended-Now-ends-at-original-12-00-PM-PST&p=981819#post981819) It should be clear why a small minority of players would think widening the prize tiers is a good idea, as they're likely on the cusp of a tier but can't quite get there (or they're in, you know, 12th place and 7 million IP short, tomato tohmahtoe).

In short, they can say want about taking into account player feedback, but the "we got a lot of requests for this in tickets that you can't see" seems like hand-waving, and it took 20+ pages of unanimous vitriol for GREE to reverse course on their (initial) awful decision to extend war, which of course was asked for in lots of tickets we can't see, and who knows where those players were when they made the initial "Syndicate War Extended" topic. Maybe The_ came out in favor of it, I'm not sure, but he's widely regarded as an idiot whose opinion is worthless.

Green Drake
09-17-2013, 12:59 PM
I question the decision to change the tiers with minutes left in the battle. I am fine with my placement but had I known that for a few thousand more ip I would have potentially received another item I certainly would have clicked a few more times.

offline04
09-17-2013, 01:11 PM
Green, you would have tapped a little more, understandable. Others, on the other hand, would have stopped tapping hours before. I need binoculars to see rank 12, which got the same reward.

cc thunder
09-17-2013, 01:20 PM
I have been quietly reading this for the past couple days and what I'm not seeing is an actual solution to the problem at hand. what would have been what everybody wanted to happen? as somebody who does use gold and somebody who did buy gold it was absolutely frustrating the scrolling issue going on with Android it definitely hindered to the amount of points I was able to obtain. I feel that either solution would have made me feel a little bit better, either extending the time or widening the tiers, but the main issue was the fault in the first place. I feel like the most fair thing to do would be to end the tournament refund everybody's gold and set the whole schedule back one week. most people can get on in the weekend much easier than during the week so it needed to be a comfortable time schedule to what was lost, I feel like scrolling issue which is definitely had a huge impact on android games made it so there was no fair solution to be had whatsoever other than a hard restart for the whole game, with the time in between being allowed to use to fix the code on grees end. short of what they did I haven't seen a solution that anybody would be unanimously happy with either

BigMoney
09-17-2013, 01:46 PM
I have been quietly reading this for the past couple days and what I'm not seeing is an actual solution to the problem at hand. what would have been what everybody wanted to happen? as somebody who does use gold and somebody who did buy gold it was absolutely frustrating the scrolling issue going on with Android it definitely hindered to the amount of points I was able to obtain. I feel that either solution would have made me feel a little bit better, either extending the time or widening the tiers, but the main issue was the fault in the first place. I feel like the most fair thing to do would be to end the tournament refund everybody's gold and set the whole schedule back one week. most people can get on in the weekend much easier than during the week so it needed to be a comfortable time schedule to what was lost, I feel like scrolling issue which is definitely had a huge impact on android games made it so there was no fair solution to be had whatsoever other than a hard restart for the whole game, with the time in between being allowed to use to fix the code on grees end. short of what they did I haven't seen a solution that anybody would be unanimously happy with either

I am the only one who thinks extending and unextending the war isn't a big enough deal to merit all these drastic "solutions" as compensation? I wouldn't have wanted the war to extend for 6 more hours, because if you look on the results, it is clear that no one in the Top 11 had any plans of giving up on Top 10, and surely 2-3 million more IP would have been scored by each team if so. Widening the tiers ****ed over any team that legitimately earned their placement. Am I the only one who would have preferred nothing be done about the matchup snafu-- that affected all teams more or less the same (within a tier, of course)-- than "something", considering the options GREE considered?

Good lord. If GREE doesn't mess with anything, the 4 hours of poor matchups would have been a small blip on the radar. Instead they repeatedly changed things up, and caused far more trouble with their solutions than the initial problems.

Dirty Larry
09-17-2013, 02:14 PM
I am picking up what you all are throwing down. Is the Brain Trust at Gree going to do anything differently?

BigMoney
09-17-2013, 02:16 PM
I am picking up what you all are throwing down. Is the Brain Trust at Gree going to do anything differently?

GREE.... brain?....

cc thunder
09-17-2013, 02:37 PM
Big money, I have huge respect for you, you are probably more correct than me I would be willing to bet it, as a fellow Android user you cant ignore the fact that anybody on Android was having a much harder time competing than anybody on an idevice, they had to do something to address it and what I'm saying is they should have just push the reset button and set the whole competition back 1 week. everybody is upset with the widening of the tiers and the ghost extension, but with all the problems encountered by Android users I don't think it was fair to keep the original deadline either the whole match was destroyed everything was ruined. I really believe they might as well let well enough alone right now and move on, any solution that could have been made should have been made previously anything now they're just making things worse

BigMoney
09-17-2013, 03:00 PM
Big money, I have huge respect for you, you are probably more correct than me I would be willing to bet it, as a fellow Android user you cant ignore the fact that anybody on Android was having a much harder time competing than anybody on an idevice, they had to do something to address it and what I'm saying is they should have just push the reset button and set the whole competition back 1 week. everybody is upset with the widening of the tiers and the ghost extension, but with all the problems encountered by Android users I don't think it was fair to keep the original deadline either the whole match was destroyed everything was ruined. I really believe they might as well let well enough alone right now and move on, any solution that could have been made should have been made previously anything now they're just making things worse

I don't think any of the problems in war are severe enough to merit an entire do-over of the war. That's not fair to anyone either-- you can't replicate battles, where perhaps one syndicate got a particularly favorable matchup (e.g. DFA put up at least 2 million IP on two different teams in the Top 25-50). Perhaps next time around DFA gets FC/SAS/RG constantly, etc. You can't control for those sorts of variables. At this point I'd hope GREE doesn't try any more of their hair-brained "solutions," as they seem to be consistently good at making solutions worse than the initial problems.

cc thunder
09-17-2013, 03:10 PM
At this point I'd hope GREE doesn't try any more of their hair-brained "solutions," as they seem to be consistently good at making solutions worse than the initial problems. I agree, time to put it down and walk away

Rjc
09-17-2013, 04:19 PM
If gree wants to make amends for the recent poor decisions they should return all of the gold used in the last 24 hours of the war. This is the only fair solution. Any person who used gold to stay in the original tiers would be made whole.

MattThomas08
09-17-2013, 04:28 PM
If gree wants to make amends for the recent poor decisions they should return all of the gold used in the last 24 hours of the war. This is the only fair solution. Any person who used gold to stay in the original tiers would be made whole.

I think the chances of that happening are pretty well set right around zero. Gree's solution was to award only SOME people for a problem that affected EVERYBODY. As such, the people who paid for the original tiers as they were set were affectively punished for spending more gold, in that they received nothing further in return.

Like others have said, I wouldn't be freaking out if OGK got top 10 prizes for instance. They were pretty much right there and had matchup problems at the end (though that hasn't really meant anything in the past for us when we waited 25+ minutes for our final matchup in Civic Center), but at least if they received prizes, they'd be getting what they paid for.

GU7 F4WK3S
09-17-2013, 05:39 PM
I am the only one who thinks extending and unextending the war isn't a big enough deal to merit all these drastic "solutions" as compensation? I wouldn't have wanted the war to extend for 6 more hours, because if you look on the results, it is clear that no one in the Top 11 had any plans of giving up on Top 10, and surely 2-3 million more IP would have been scored by each team if so. Widening the tiers ****ed over any team that legitimately earned their placement. Am I the only one who would have preferred nothing be done about the matchup snafu-- that affected all teams more or less the same (within a tier, of course)-- than "something", considering the options GREE considered?

Good lord. If GREE doesn't mess with anything, the 4 hours of poor matchups would have been a small blip on the radar. Instead they repeatedly changed things up, and caused far more trouble with their solutions than the initial problems.

You weren't alone in your thinking. My reaction was to laugh when I seen it though. Than I went and got another drink.

iddkubw 93
09-17-2013, 06:08 PM
...but have a common sense.

Let's see - many people pay more money to achieve something they could have gotten cheaper if they would have known what's going on?

Hm, let's compare this:

You go on a vacation, Spain, England, Mexico, China, France...and sit there having a nice glass, or even a bottle of decent wine for a certain price. I don't go cheap on vacations. Now the time comes to pay, you take out your wallet, pay and of course we tip good - just to notice that the next table pays a fairly smaller amount for the same bottle! They even smile in your face.

What do we do?

A) We walk away, happy of being screwed, and even saying "damn, we will come back for more."

B) We complain, and ask at least to be fairly treated, means to pay the same price than the others for the same product.

C) We ask very loud for a full refund for this mistreatment.


One more?
We want to upgrade our car, stereo, speakers, screens or something crazy? A little pool in the limo?

After all is done, of course with 3 times complaining about the job, to our happiness, we pay! While we pay, as Murphy's Law, somebody else pay's far less for the same modification!

Now, I won't repeat choices A, B, or C - it's obvious.

So, is it really to much to ask for something? A partial refund, extra items, start the next battle with the end points?

Regards.

I hope my German English is understandable.

BigMoney
09-17-2013, 06:50 PM
...but have a common sense.

Let's see - many people pay more money to achieve something they could have gotten cheaper if they would have known what's going on?

Hm, let's compare this:

You go on a vacation, Spain, England, Mexico, China, France...and sit there having a nice glass, or even a bottle of decent wine for a certain price. I don't go cheap on vacations. Now the time comes to pay, you take out your wallet, pay and of course we tip good - just to notice that the next table pays a fairly smaller amount for the same bottle! They even smile in your face.

What do we do?

A) We walk away, happy of being screwed, and even saying "damn, we will come back for more."

B) We complain, and ask at least to be fairly treated, means to pay the same price than the others for the same product.

C) We ask very loud for a full refund for this mistreatment.


One more?
We want to upgrade our car, stereo, speakers, screens or something crazy? A little pool in the limo?

After all is done, of course with 3 times complaining about the job, to our happiness, we pay! While we pay, as Murphy's Law, somebody else pay's far less for the same modification!

Now, I won't repeat choices A, B, or C - it's obvious.

So, is it really to much to ask for something? A partial refund, extra items, start the next battle with the end points?

Regards.

I hope my German English is understandable.

D) Run over and punch that other couple in the face and wipe the smirk off their dumb face. Then find the owner of the restaurant and punch him in the ****.

I'd love to start with our excess IP for next war as I'm sure the other #4-11 teams would as well. We basically spent enough for two Top 10 finishes anyway.

reesebutton
09-18-2013, 12:29 AM
Am I the only one who would have preferred nothing be done about the matchup snafu-- that affected all teams more or less the same (within a tier, of course)-- than "something", considering the options GREE considered?

I was contented when they reverted to the original end time.

Wasn't expecting or hoping for any compensation for the matchup snafu. Widening the tiers was hairbrained & while (imo) probably in good faith, was not considered thoroughly.

punawa
09-18-2013, 12:37 AM
...but have a common sense.

Let's see - many people pay more money to achieve something they could have gotten cheaper if they would have known what's going on?

Hm, let's compare this:

You go on a vacation, Spain, England, Mexico, China, France...and sit there having a nice glass, or even a bottle of decent wine for a certain price. I don't go cheap on vacations. Now the time comes to pay, you take out your wallet, pay and of course we tip good - just to notice that the next table pays a fairly smaller amount for the same bottle! They even smile in your face.

What do we do?

A) We walk away, happy of being screwed, and even saying "damn, we will come back for more."

B) We complain, and ask at least to be fairly treated, means to pay the same price than the others for the same product.

C) We ask very loud for a full refund for this mistreatment.


One more?
We want to upgrade our car, stereo, speakers, screens or something crazy? A little pool in the limo?

After all is done, of course with 3 times complaining about the job, to our happiness, we pay! While we pay, as Murphy's Law, somebody else pay's far less for the same modification!

Now, I won't repeat choices A, B, or C - it's obvious.

So, is it really to much to ask for something? A partial refund, extra items, start the next battle with the end points?

Regards.

I hope my German English is understandable.
bad examples.
In a real restaurant you will always pay the same prize for a bottle cause that's an official prize written down in a wine list. Or you eat in a street market in the middle of nowhere? :p
The car selling companies, that how it works. Not two people will pay the same prize for the same car with same options.
That's all about being a persuasive buyer. A least that's how it works in Belgium, Luxembourg, France. If you don't ask for anything, you will pay the full prize but if you could be a persuasive, more options for free or a good discount is always possible.

Once a transaction is done, you can only blame yourself :D