Guild War Pairings

[Hildigam]

This is a part rage/real question.

Does anyone know how they do pairings? Cause Point Blank has been put up against Rainbow Room I think at least 6 times already. We all know they are stronger than us so it isn't just a rage that they are stronger (there is always a bigger fish) but that out of all the guilds out there it should be highly improbablenthat we fight a guild 12 levels higher than us.

Any idea how pairings really work?

[Joshx135]

This is a part rage/real question.

Does anyone know how they do pairings? Cause Point Blank has been put up against Rainbow Room I think at least 6 times already. We all know they are stronger than us so it isn't just a rage that they are stronger (there is always a bigger fish) but that out of all the guilds out there it should be highly improbablenthat we fight a guild 12 levels higher than us.

Any idea how pairings really work?

It's so random, don't even try to think how it works. We have 39 people in our guild yet we have been paired with a 1 person guild like 5 times.

[Hildigam]

I would kill for that right about now

[-Solo-]

No, you wouldn't. You get less than 150 points most of the time, sometimes even lower than 120.

[Hildigam]

No, you wouldn't. You get less than 150 points most of the time, sometimes even lower than 120.

You must be on android cause inassure you. Rr six times, makes the game really hard when you are fighting it out for 10th

[drygores]

From team awesome..we have been paired against majestic I think 5-6 times lol rank 1 vs rank 20. Should really be battles inside of each rank. Like 1-10,11-25,26-50 should battle each other. They are the ones competing against each other. And when you move into a new category, either you belong and will last. Or fail and fall out. Just my opinion.

[Tachycardia]

How many level 40 guilds have you been paired with?

[Hildigam]

How many level 40 guilds have you been paired with?

No idea to be honest, but probably enough for me to forget and be baised toward a stronger guild eh? Still doesn't make it fair to the 40s we creamed.

I don't like losing as little as anyone else but the pairings are bad. We shouldn't be vs. lvl 40 guilds either

[Stooboot]

It's so random, don't even try to think how it works. We have 39 people in our guild yet we have been paired with a 1 person guild like 5 times.

Yea that sucks but its also not fun gettin paired with u guys 3 times in the last 12 hours but when ur in the top 10 I guess its 2 b expected

[-Solo-]

We've gotten paired with 4-5 teams with 1 or 2 members. That's 4-5 wasted hours of guild wars.

[Joshx135]

We've gotten paired with 4-5 teams with 1 or 2 members. That's 4-5 wasted hours of guild wars.

Not only that, but the time it takes to get matches in between gw adds up and we lose even more time.

[ZERO_07]

Agreed, Guilds with less than 10 members should not be able to participate in GWs, or should have the option to not participate at all, they're just a waste of time and losing out on potential points.

[Tachycardia]

No idea to be honest, but probably enough for me to forget and be baised toward a stronger guild eh? Still doesn't make it fair to the 40s we creamed.

I don't like losing as little as anyone else but the pairings are bad. We shouldn't be vs. lvl 40 guilds either

I don't disagree, we just went against a guild in the 400's and yet our two guilds who are fairly close, are yet to be paired.
I don't get it

[Nomedac]

I also don't understand the pairings. My guild, Shock, is rated #79. For our last two battles we were put up against a #12 and the #2 guild. We weren't fortunate to take advantage of the epic fusing before it was nerfed with the last patch. We are a level 51 guild and have at most 2 pieces of epic armor in the entire guild. We just don't believe in buying armor with gems. Again...didn't know about the fusing epics until it was taken away. Will it come back?

It seems it would be more fair to have top 10 duke it out with themselves since they have all the EPIC gear anyway. Let the rest of us have fun in the game. Maybe some sort of 3 tier system like boxing with a qualification round at the beginning? Heavy, Middle, and light weight... Just my thoughts. Take it or leave it.

[Sifu]

I also don't understand the pairings. My guild, Shock, is rated #79. For our last two battles we were put up against a #12 and the #2 guild. We weren't fortunate to take advantage of the epic fusing before it was nerfed with the last patch. We are a level 51 guild and have at most 2 pieces of epic armor in the entire guild. We just don't believe in buying armor with gems. Again...didn't know about the fusing epics until it was taken away. Will it come back?

It seems it would be more fair to have top 10 duke it out with themselves since they have all the EPIC gear anyway. Let the rest of us have fun in the game. Maybe some sort of 3 tier system like boxing with a qualification round at the beginning? Heavy, Middle, and light weight... Just my thoughts. Take it or leave it.

There would have to be a way to cross tiers. If you are 15 and shooting for top 10, you shouldn't just be able to farm level 11-50 guilds where the top 10 have to face each other every time either. They couldn't really be hard tiers at all. I think the general ideas so far on just working on optimizing the match ups are more in the right direction. Having said that, you still have to try to take into consideration, you can't have people waiting too long after declaring to be matched up. A lot is going to depend on the pool of guilds in the queue which Gree can't do much about.

[Nomedac]

There would have to be a way to cross tiers. If you are 15 and shooting for top 10, you shouldn't just be able to farm level 11-50 guilds where the top 10 have to face each other every time either. They couldn't really be hard tiers at all. I think the general ideas so far on just working on optimizing the match ups are more in the right direction. Having said that, you still have to try to take into consideration, you can't have people waiting too long after declaring to be matched up. A lot is going to depend on the pool of guilds in the queue which Gree can't do much about.


Just an idea. But with the bracket idea, once qualification determined, there wouldn't be a crossover. Meaning each bracket has their ribbon black - J category. Numeric equivalents of armor across a guild could also determine brackets.

[Sifu]

Just an idea. But with the bracket idea, once qualification determined, there wouldn't be a crossover. Meaning each bracket has their ribbon black - J category. Numeric equivalents of armor across a guild could also determine brackets.

I see one big problem with this right off the bat. Spend as many gems as necessary on the qualification to get into the top 10 bracket. Then do nothing in the war and still collect #10 rewards.

If you have hard tiers, there will be a way to game it. If you have a qualification, there becomes two distinct wars, really. Also, having a "seeding" by armor only guarantees that spending money is the only way to win. Especially with epics not being fusable at the moment. That would put all us free players down in the peasant's bracket. As it is, it is bad enough.

[~Nate~]

We always found good guilds like Death Knights, Citadel that

[iH8t2lose2]

Our guild, was rank 115 and over half of the guilds we fought were top 25. I believe it is based on level as we are very high level, and got paired up with other high levels. We do not have any gemmers, and over half our guild only participated in like 10 fights the entire wars. Other peope, like myself, set alarms while I was sleeping so my energy would not fill up.

[busteroaf]

The problem is, any guild paired with a guild higher than them will inevitably complain about being paired with high ranked guilds, but then don't want to farm small guilds because they'll get less points. Trust me, it did get old seeing the same guilds over and over, but thats the way the lovely pairing system works. Eventually, in a perfect world, if Gree's system is you know, proper, (though we all doubt it's semi-randomness) guilds will filter themselves out to proper ranking.

I don't think a 1-10 should only battle 1-10, 11-25 vs 11-25 and so on. Look at the spread in points. The top 3 guilds (likely) decimate the 4-10. Is it fair that for them that they have to battle the same guilds over and over? Everyone needs a few gimmies or easy wins. And trust me, you can still farm points off of lower level guilds. Might not be fun seeing only one opponent, but hey, 1 man guilds is still a guild. They deserve the chance to win a war just like anyone else. Same with guilds with only 10 members. You have to start somewhere. And if you can get some lucky wins, get some points, you deserve a reward.

Also, since no one has seemed to figure out the point distribution yet, there's not telling how the pairing works either. Why does the same opponent give random points battle to battle? Does ending on a SA hurt/help the points? Different level armors give more points? No one knows. The only thing you are losing out on is bonus points from wins.

[BethMo]

My guess is that the system tries to match guilds that are close together in ranking, but the longer a guild has been waiting, the wider range it will allow.

Here's the list of guilds that Rainbow Room fought. All of them that were not in the top 25 at the time we fought them have their rank listed. I think the pairing worked reasonably well -- the only really crazy one was Vagabound.

Rainbow Party
Point Blank
Evolve
Point Blank
All Legends (#53)
Rainbow Party
Veni Vidi Vici (#38)
Centurions Academy
Over Level 100 (#35)
Centurions
Cougar(#54)
Fizzybubbele (#34)
SNL
Evolve
Gangnam Style (#153)
Dragon Wolves (#139)
Medieval Times
Unova
Sauce
Centurions Academy
Evolve
WAR
Koyo Inc
The Untouchables
UNLEASHED
WAR
Evolve
Vagabond (#4,654)
Koyo Inc
Airblade
Elite (#100)
L2p (#59)
Argonauts (#261)
Elite (#111)
The Cobras (#32)
Point Blank
WAR
Sauce (#108)
Point Blank
Knights of Flame
The Untouchables
Sauce (#107)
SOS (#32)
L2p (#64)
The Untouchables
Darkstorm (#36)
Airblade
Over Level 100
Flaming Matter
Koyo Inc
Evolve
Koyo Inc
The Rainbow Rug
Over Level 100
Elite (#58)
Zero (#74)
Corrupt (#229)
Knights of Flame
Demon Spawns (#32)
Cougar (#33)
Veni Vidi Vici (#50)
Demon Spawns (#32)

[Daenerys]

My guess is that the system tries to match guilds that are close together in ranking, but the longer a guild has been waiting, the wider range it will allow.

Here's the list of guilds that Rainbow Room fought. All of them that were not in the top 25 at the time we fought them have their rank listed. I think the pairing worked reasonably well -- the only really crazy one was Vagabound.

Rainbow Party
Point Blank
Evolve
Point Blank
All Legends (#53)
Rainbow Party
Veni Vidi Vici (#38)
Centurions Academy
Over Level 100 (#35)
Centurions
Cougar(#54)
Fizzybubbele (#34)
SNL
Evolve
Gangnam Style (#153)
Dragon Wolves (#139)
Medieval Times
Unova
Sauce
Centurions Academy
Evolve
WAR
Koyo Inc
The Untouchables
UNLEASHED
WAR
Evolve
Vagabond (#4,654)
Koyo Inc
Airblade
Elite (#100)
L2p (#59)
Argonauts (#261)
Elite (#111)
The Cobras (#32)
Point Blank
WAR
Sauce (#108)
Point Blank
Knights of Flame
The Untouchables
Sauce (#107)
SOS (#32)
L2p (#64)
The Untouchables
Darkstorm (#36)
Airblade
Over Level 100
Flaming Matter
Koyo Inc
Evolve
Koyo Inc
The Rainbow Rug
Over Level 100
Elite (#58)
Zero (#74)
Corrupt (#229)
Knights of Flame
Demon Spawns (#32)
Cougar (#33)
Veni Vidi Vici (#50)
Demon Spawns (#32)

Just out of pure curiousity, what happens when you fight a guild within your coalition? Is it still all out war, or you play nice w/ each other?

[Marco_]

Just out of pure curiousity, what happens when you fight a guild within your coalition? Is it still all out war, or you play nice w/ each other?
Assuming iOS at the top functions the same as Android at the top, then there's an error in your thinking: "still all out war" only applies when both parties have a reasonable expectation of winning a battle. My assumption is that from that list BethMo posted, 75+% will have said "Rainbow Room? Not going to beat them, so only hit the sentinel and gate a bit to prevent energy maxing out and then call it a day". (energy/gems spent on a win count for 150%, while those spent on a loss only count for 100%, so it's best to spend as little as possible on a loss)

@BethMo: so Rainbow Room didn't run into any 1 or 2 person guilds?

Our last battle we again ran into a 1 person guild and since there was nothing to win or lose anymore, we did a bit of a "let's kick in the gate" game. The gate seemed to look more and more damaged, but does anyone know if you can actually destroy the gate?

[BethMo]

In the first war, we were matched against one 2-person guild "Rock" four or five times. I felt really sorry for them. Gree seems to have fixed that bug.

But why are people saying you can't get points in those situations? You can get just as many points by repeatedly beating the GM of a 1-person guild as you do by repeatedly beating the GM of a 40-person guild.


Just out of pure curiousity, what happens when you fight a guild within your coalition? Is it still all out war, or you play nice w/ each other?

It depends. Early in the war, we went all out against them. Late in the war, when we were feeling pretty confident with our score, our GM put on his blue crab armor and we sat back and let them rack up as many points as they wanted. That was our only loss of the war. :)

[Daenerys]

In the first war, we were matched against one 2-person guild "Rock" four or five times. I felt really sorry for them. Gree seems to have fixed that bug.

But why are people saying you can't get points in those situations? You can get just as many points by repeatedly beating the GM of a 1-person guild as you do by repeatedly beating the GM of a 40-person guild.



It depends. Early in the war, we went all out against them. Late in the war, when we were feeling pretty confident with our score, our GM put on his blue crab armor and we sat back and let them rack up as many points as they wanted. That was our only loss of the war. :)

So you did play nice :-)

[-Solo-]

But why are people saying you can't get points in those situations? You can get just as many points by repeatedly beating the GM of a 1-person guild as you do by repeatedly beating the GM of a 40-person guild.

If it wasn't for gree's retarded point system, this would make sense, but since people's point gain varies from killing the same person, no it is not the same. A 1 person guild GM will net you an average less than commanders of a sizeable guild or a GM in a 40 man guild, resulting in an eventual waste of gems.

That brings into my next point: points aren't just based on a guild position. You can get more points from commanders than HCs and higher positions. Maybe it's different for you guys on iOS.

[Unresolved]

If it wasn't for gree's retarded point system, this would make sense, but since people's point gain varies from killing the same person, no it is not the same. A 1 person guild GM will net you an average less than commanders of a sizeable guild or a GM in a 40 man guild, resulting in an eventual waste of gems.

That brings into my next point: points aren't just based on a guild position. You can get more points from commanders than HCs and higher positions. Maybe it's different for you guys on iOS.

Rank has a higher bonus. GM's get 50% bonus of base points, GC/GS/HC get 20%, and commanders get 0%.

[busteroaf]

Rank has a higher bonus. GM's get 50% bonus of base points, GC/GS/HC get 20%, and commanders get 0%.

And no one has seemed to have mastered the randomness of the points. Some battles GMs would give 180/90/30 (Points/Rank Bonus/Killed Knights) and some battles it would be 300/150/30 against the same GM.

[Unresolved]

And no one has seemed to have mastered the randomness of the points. Some battles GMs would give 180/90/30 (Points/Rank Bonus/Killed Knights) and some battles it would be 300/150/30 against the same GM.

As far as I can tell, it's simple RNG. Base points fluctuate between the lower bounds(not sure what it is) and 330. Maybe just an RNG seed that has an equal chance of landing on a value in that range?

[-Solo-]

It's definitely different for each player in a guild. I could beat a GM in a 1 man guild and get in the 120-150pt range, while another member in my guild would get 200+. There's either too many variables or some RNG that we have to learn to control and minimize.

[LadyBadTouch]

We (Bad Touch Guild) stayed in the rank range 55-70 the entire time, and ended up #63. We were paired evenly the majority of the time. We fought 24 times and were undefeated, there were a few close calls against Drunk All Night and Soul Candy and then some fights were only 1 member from the opposition would be fighting.

We were never placed against a guild with only a few members. There were a few times where we ran into guild that had better stats than us...didn't matter we still rocked for our first real guild war.

Sorry that you guys ran into issues. I almost wish that it was set up in tournament brackets or something. Although, it was nice to be undefeated and gain the 50% bonus every time we won, it really did nothing else for us...other than bragging rights.

[Barry_mycokinya]

The 3rd and most recent guild war my guild was ranked 407 but we got paired with people in the top 100 and even top 25 in 90% of our wars. We are guild level 31.

[iH8t2lose2]

We (Bad Touch Guild) stayed in the rank range 55-70 the entire time, and ended up #63. We were paired evenly the majority of the time. We fought 24 times and were undefeated, there were a few close calls against Drunk All Night and Soul Candy and then some fights were only 1 member from the opposition would be fighting.

We were never placed against a guild with only a few members. There were a few times where we ran into guild that had better stats than us...didn't matter we still rocked for our first real guild war.

Sorry that you guys ran into issues. I almost wish that it was set up in tournament brackets or something. Although, it was nice to be undefeated and gain the 50% bonus every time we won, it really did nothing else for us...other than bragging rights.
Iwatch you on youtube.

[LadyBadTouch]

Iwatch you on youtube.


sweet! I hope you enjoy them :P

[andypvo]

Quit your complaining, we been paired up against rr, untouchables plenty of times where we would have a 3-4 losing streak againt rr, untouchables then rr. Yes we finished top 10.

[LadyBadTouch]

Hey guys this might not be the appropriate area to ask this...

During guild wars I had the message "bounty" earned at the end of one of our close fights.

It said either 25+ or 50+ energy (I don't know I clicked out of it so quickly)

I never did see anything come out of it. Does anyone know what this is about?

[Sifu]

Hey guys this might not be the appropriate area to ask this...

During guild wars I had the message "bounty" earned at the end of one of our close fights.

It said either 25+ or 50+ energy (I don't know I clicked out of it so quickly)

I never did see anything come out of it. Does anyone know what this is about?

I've seen s screenshot of one similar. That one was because the war ended before the battle did. They did not award the points for a win or loss so they refunded the energy. I don't know if your situation was the same or not.

[LadyBadTouch]

I've seen s screenshot of one similar. That one was because the war ended before the battle did. They did not award the points for a win or loss so they refunded the energy. I don't know if your situation was the same or not.

Hmmm, the sad part was that I had just used gems to refill, so I was probably at -1 energy bar at the time, would have been nice if I was maxed out.

I really had no clue what happened, although I wish that there was some more clarification on that somewhere. It was literally a pop up that said "Bounty" and a picture of energy with a +25 or +50 and that was it... no explanation or anything :(

[Sifu]

The one I saw was for +25 energy. That is one attack. It doesn't refill the whole bar. I guess you could have been SOL if you had used the Power Attack. As it is, it should have just replaced the energy for that one fight you didn't get to complete.

[Aerin Kylantra]

Sifu already covered it...bounties were occasionally given out for large damage to a guardian or winning a close battle. It was simply to fill your energy bar a partial amount (+25 = 1 energy). I saw three of them myself throughout the entire guild war, but know they happened many other times for other people.

At best, they seemed to be given at random, because I killed and did significant damage to guardians regularly, but only got two through attacking guardians. The other time was right when I wiped my energy on a last hit on some peon that gave me only 89 points, so I went and hit someone else instead with my new hit.

Not sure if that helps any.

[firefly333]

It's so random, don't even try to think how it works. We have 39 people in our guild yet we have been paired with a 1 person guild like 5 times.

We meet that guild too. We are asking ourselves how its allowed to have a one man guild.

One guy with two blaze and a tetonic that seemed fully lvl'd up. We had only a couple of guys who could beat him, as he was good. He did not have a guardian or a sentinel so no points there. You just had to battle this one guy.

We paired against Majestic or their Alliance 2 out of 3 in the 4 hour blitz and hit them a 4th time by Saturday morning and were wondering as well how you can keep getting paired up against the same guild time after time.

I hope Gree will find a way to play against more teams and not the same ones over and over.

We still loved the war.

Waste of time for us to be paired with this one man guild.

[Helena G Wells]

I did a little spreadsheet analysis on our guild war battles, just to figure out how we were being paired up against the others. We pretty much knew where we were going to end up on the leaderboard in our last five battles, so was a bit surprised when we found ourselves matched against against 200s, 400s, and even 900s.

As an afterthought, I looked up the guilds themselves and plugged in their levels and it cleared everything up. The matching is definitely based on guild levels - outside of an unlucky 26 and a 50, we were generally within 5 levels of each other.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlvJ158iAY42dDhrbnpNYlJGYW0yRUdwQ3ROTVNtc mc#gid=0

[firefly333]

Sifu already covered it...bounties were occasionally given out for large damage to a guardian or winning a close battle. It was simply to fill your energy bar a partial amount (+25 = 1 energy). I saw three of them myself throughout the entire guild war, but know they happened many other times for other people.

Several of us also saw this pop up for "connectivity issues". I would win the battle and this msg popped up and did not give me a score but gave me 25 atk back. I think I had this twice where I got back 25 atk for connectivity issues.

You could apparantly get this 25 atk back for a number of reasons.

Last war on IOS some people complained they used gems and to no avail and I suspect that Gree put this in as a fix for people using gems who complained they were wasted.

[LadyBadTouch]

Sifu already covered it...bounties were occasionally given out for large damage to a guardian or winning a close battle. It was simply to fill your energy bar a partial amount (+25 = 1 energy). I saw three of them myself throughout the entire guild war, but know they happened many other times for other people.

At best, they seemed to be given at random, because I killed and did significant damage to guardians regularly, but only got two through attacking guardians. The other time was right when I wiped my energy on a last hit on some peon that gave me only 89 points, so I went and hit someone else instead with my new hit.

Not sure if that helps any.

It does help. I didn't quite understand the amount of energy that was being use per a fight. I assumed 1 energy per a section. So it all makes sense now, and is probably why after using 1 section/bar for a fight and then receiving the bounty, I was back to max power.

[Sifu]

Yeah, it generates 1% per minute. 25% per normal attack. Regens a full bar in 100 minutes, so 1 hour 40 minutes.

[firefly333]

I also don't understand the pairings. We are a level 51 guild and have at most 2 pieces of epic armor in the entire guild. We just don't believe in buying armor with gems. Again...didn't know about the fusing epics until it was taken away. Will it come back?

I think we were about lvl 31 or 32 the week before the war and we decided to step it up and got to lvl 38 or 39 by the time the war started? We have continued to try and step up finishing quests and now up to lvl 43.

We finished #5

We also were paired up a lot, especially the last night and the last two battles against those in the top ten, so the computer must have been doing what you suggested a lot for us to continually draw guilds in the top 10. We only had a couple of easy teams who were ranked down a ways.

Question: How should the computer pair off against people with armors ranked higher? Who are currently in the top ten (so we would hardly get to play many teams and I would have liked to see more teams, not the same ones over and over), how leveled up your guild is?

What do you think Gree should use to determine who fights whom.

[LadyBadTouch]

Yeah, it generates 1% per minute. 25% per normal attack. Regens a full bar in 100 minutes, so 1 hour 40 minutes.

Okay thanks! That make so much more sense now...I guess I was being lazy and didn't really want to put much thought into it ;)

[Tharkin]

Our guild Internal Balance seemed to be in the middle for pairings. We only had a few where we crushed the enemy and only had one that I recall where we were vasty overmatched. For the most part they were reasonable match-ups, though we came out ahead in most =)

-Tharkin

[The Pale Rider]

I did a little spreadsheet analysis on our guild war battles, just to figure out how we were being paired up against the others. We pretty much knew where we were going to end up on the leaderboard in our last five battles, so was a bit surprised when we found ourselves matched against against 200s, 400s, and even 900s.

As an afterthought, I looked up the guilds themselves and plugged in their levels and it cleared everything up. The matching is definitely based on guild levels - outside of an unlucky 26 and a 50, we were generally within 5 levels of each other.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlvJ158iAY42dDhrbnpNYlJGYW0yRUdwQ3ROTVNtc mc#gid=0

Guys -- you can stop guessing, the matching is definitely based on guild level not armor, player levels or ranking in the GW. The spreadsheet Helena posted makes that clear. If you have weak armor and a high level guild you're gonna have a bad time.