Immediate Necessary Guild War Changes

[Eunuchorn]

A.
Lock names. Changing your name moves your roster around. It's just dumb.

B.
If a war ends while I'm in a fight, GIVE FULL CREDIT FOR THE WIN, not 25 points of bs. Every other Gree game does this.

C.
Check if Battle Frenzy is working correctly. I believe it doesn't kick in enough, & gives far too many points when it does.

D.
Let battle be declared w/in 30 minutes left of war.
Every other Gree game does this.
Thanks Ragmond for update

E.
If game freezes or is force closed during a battle, you load back in as a loss; this doesn't happen in arena though.

[~Nate~]

I didn't get my rewards... fuq this

[Korner]

I didn't get any rewards as many other players...gree,please fix that!

[geo81]

Yeah I got nothing!! But the others in my guild did

[Miyabi]

Same!!! Lots of ppl without rewards...
Missing!!

[tredadda]

Someone seems butt hurt that his big spending guild did not finish first. The same restrictions that affected you and your guild affected everyone equally. This war another guild wanted it more. You didn't seem too bothered by these issues after the first GW when your guild finished first.

[Epon]

If you noticed the time stamp of Eun's post, it was done before the guild wars ended

[tredadda]

Yes, but for quite some time before the guild wars ended RR was in second place. They regained the top spot for a very short time before ultimately losing #1 for good. And looking at the timestamp was around the time that they could no longer go to war and therefore their fate was sealed by that point.

[Ragmondino]

No other game lets you declare with 5 minutes left. Minimum of 30 minutes is needed.
Stop whining about name changes. So what if it moves people? What's the big deal?

[Dexavus]

These same issues were no problem when you placed first, and they aren't game breakers now, you lost just get over it.

I'm also with rewards by the way.

[shukai84]

PLEASE CHANGE THE TIMING OF GUILDWAR or EXTEND TO 8 HRS!

[tredadda]

I can agree with this, some people have things going on like school and jobs and can't just be available at noon Pacific Time. This also happens when some are sleeping and never got a chance to compete. Not very fair overall.

[Dexavus]

We have some Singapore folks in hour guild, war ran from 3am-7am for them, just depends how bad you want it.

[Jordon1992]

I think people complaining about time zones need to realise this is why you have high commanders to run at other time zones to control for you when you guys are sleeping

[Miyabi]

PLEASE CHANGE THE TIMING OF GUILDWAR or EXTEND TO 8 HRS!

Lol singaporean very jialat.. We camp all night.. Z_z

[busteroaf]

I can agree with this, some people have things going on like school and jobs and can't just be available at noon Pacific Time. This also happens when some are sleeping and never got a chance to compete. Not very fair overall.

Anything less than 24 hours is never going to be "fair" to a certain group. I started work an hour into guild wars, so I missed out most of the guild war. (since our first war didn't start until well after 3:20... and I have a 20 minute drive to work) And yes, it all depends on "how bad you want it" but people shouldn't be expected to lose sleep over a guild war. If so, to each his/her own.

[Eunuchorn]

You're all very cute w/ your flaming.

This post had nothing to do w/ placement & has nothing to do w/ the fact that untouchables went from 4th to 1st in their 2nd of 3 battles. If their players dropped that much money to get 500k points in 1 war, & 300k the next, kudos to them. But let me tell you, we had 3 mil points total from last war, & we have plenty a spender, but never got much more than 300k per war, including the time we were going all out for an hour vs Cents.

This post is about basic, maybe even subtle game mechanics that make for an overall better experience. If you're going to say that only "gamebreaking" mechanics should be addressed, then get back to us when/if you graduate highschool.

Any player who ever plans on spending gems for war energy refills in the future needs to demand we receive full points if battle ends during your fight.


Yes, but for quite some time before the guild wars ended RR was in second place. They regained the top spot for a very short time before ultimately losing #1 for good. And looking at the timestamp was around the time that they could no longer go to war and therefore their fate was sealed by that point.

Ya, I should exit game to start a new thread. Some of us spend 100 gems an hour to refill for points.

As to name changes, if you aren't picking one target & farming over & over, you're playing the game wrong. Let me assure you, enemy war rosters changing at will was not intended by Gree.

[Noirlust]

Some people really have their heads stuck up there ass, this thread has nothing to do with winning or loosing.

It was started for the purpose to help devs out with the future of guild wars, no flaming, crying or carrying on. Points that could be considered to be changed for the future.

Everyone else you think about doing them same, if you all want to have better experience in the next wars. They do take notice of whats being said on here, more so when people are not crying they are missing their panties, or their game crashed because you tapped your screen 100 times. Believe it or not these issues are known to them.

Those that have posted constructive criticism, kudos to you all.


For me, i curious to how everyone found the new strength of the guardians?

Noir.

[shukai84]

Lol singaporean very jialat.. We camp all night.. Z_z

wahhh u in which guild? sg guild?

[King Mark]

wahhh u in which guild? sg guild?

Miyabi is in Centurion Guild ^^

Regarding the thread, all I can say is that I've stayed up all night to help my baby knight's guild get some rewards at least while on a trip. But I definitely have to say this short GW has improved dramatically as compared to the last one =) Great job Gree & Wise One.

Before implementing any other changes, my take is for them to attend to the missing rewards to a lot of players first. This "SHOULD BE" one of their priorities, before anything else.

Cheers!

[shukai84]

Miyabi is in Centurion Guild ^^

Regarding the thread, all I can say is that I've stayed up all night to help my baby knight's guild get some rewards at least while on a trip. But I definitely have to say this short GW has improved dramatically as compared to the last one =) Great job Gree & Wise One.

Before implementing any other changes, my take is for them to attend to the missing rewards to a lot of players first. This "SHOULD BE" one of their priorities, before anything else.

Cheers!

oh, is it a Singapore Guild?

[Miyabi]

No la....
Mix mix 1 la..
Singaporean about 8-10 like tat ba.

I want my rewards~~~

[Gabzor89]

wha didn't know there were that many singaporeans lurking around. i'm one of the two singaporeans in my guild, but decided to stay awake and coordinate since i was the gm. snatched some sleep from 1-3am then crashed at 6am after the last war lol.

[shukai84]

hahah it was damn difficult for old pp like me LOL

i need more sleep...i only woke up to hit one guild sen then went back to sleep.....LOL

[Eldizzle]

A.Lock names. Changing your name moves your roster around. It's just dumb.

B.If a war ends while I'm in a fight, GIVE FULL CREDIT FOR THE WIN, not 25 points of bs. Every other Gree game does this.

C.Check if Battle Frenzy is working correctly. I believe it doesn't kick in enough, & gives far too many points when it does.

D.Let battle be declared w/in 30 minutes left of war.
Every other Gree game does this.
Thanks Ragmond for update

E.If game freezes or is force closed during a battle, you load back in as a loss; this doesn't happen in arena though.

It's a shame this thread has gotten derailed, as it has some pretty valid suggestions. Posting on the forums isn't usually my thing, but I've been frustrated more than once by most of the topics the OP mentioned. I haven't ran into a problem with name changing, but my guild hasn't faced off against any harder guilds that might be using these tactics. Taking a loss when the game freezes is a big annoyance for sure, as well as sitting there just staring at the leaderboards for the last 45 minutes because you can't queue for battle. I also strongly agree that if you are in a battle before the timer expires, you should gain points towards your guilds score, not energy refund. I hope the devs take at least some of the OP's points into consideration.

[NickkyDC]

I havent even noticed battle frenzy? Is there a specific way to tell?

[tredadda]

You're all very cute w/ your flaming.

This post had nothing to do w/ placement & has nothing to do w/ the fact that untouchables went from 4th to 1st in their 2nd of 3 battles. If their players dropped that much money to get 500k points in 1 war, & 300k the next, kudos to them. But let me tell you, we had 3 mil points total from last war, & we have plenty a spender, but never got much more than 300k per war, including the time we were going all out for an hour vs Cents.

This post is about basic, maybe even subtle game mechanics that make for an overall better experience. If you're going to say that only "gamebreaking" mechanics should be addressed, then get back to us when/if you graduate highschool.

Any player who ever plans on spending gems for war energy refills in the future needs to demand we receive full points if battle ends during your fight.



Ya, I should exit game to start a new thread. Some of us spend 100 gems an hour to refill for points.

As to name changes, if you aren't picking one target & farming over & over, you're playing the game wrong. Let me assure you, enemy war rosters changing at will was not intended by Gree.

No flaming at all, just find it funny that it is suddenly an issue for you now in a GW that your guild lost. I noticed though you added additional suggestions and to that I agree, but the name change is good strategy. If a person is getting constantly farmed, why can't that guild do something about it? You are pissy because you can't continuously exploit a weakness. You are pissed because a guild does something about that weakness. You don't value strategy apparently, just want things handed to you and get all butt hurt when it does not go your way.

Also if you are fighting with literally no time left, that is your fault. Better time management fixes that. You want GREE to make a fix because you are a poor time manager?

Oh and your post is based off what happened yesterday whether you admit it or want to keep lying about it. These were issues after the first guild war, but were not apparently enough for you to mention. You waited till your guild's fate was sealed and then decided that these issues needed to be addressed. If you are gonna lie, at least try a little harder.

[busteroaf]

No flaming at all, just find it funny that it is suddenly an issue for you now in a GW that your guild lost. I noticed though you added additional suggestions and to that I agree, but the name change is good strategy. If a person is getting constantly farmed, why can't that guild do something about it? You are pissy because you can't continuously exploit a weakness. You are pissed because a guild does something about that weakness. You don't value strategy apparently, just want things handed to you and get all butt hurt when it does not go your way.

Also if you are fighting with literally no time left, that is your fault. Better time management fixes that. You want GREE to make a fix because you are a poor time manager?

Oh and your post is based off what happened yesterday whether you admit it or want to keep lying about it. These were issues after the first guild war, but were not apparently enough for you to mention. You waited till your guild's fate was sealed and then decided that these issues needed to be addressed. If you are gonna lie, at least try a little harder.

Every time someone mentions "butt hurt" I die a little on the inside. You've caused it a few times already...

As far as time management goes, wait until you get a lag spike and your battle doesn't start for 30 seconds, when you only had less than a minute left. Yeah, should have started the battle earlier right? Or in your case, you'd probably not even start the battle. If you've been going hard for 60 minutes, you'd want every last point too. Apparently "time management" cures all, even when its not your fault.

Also, if you look back through the forums, Eun has posted about this before even the first guild war, so please stop the "now that you lost..." Also, you're clearly missing the people that agree with Eun as well.

[Valdamos]

I admit that we are a new guild, and have a ways to go on gear. But when the 2-3 strongest of us, all around lvl 85-100+ are unable to take out a sentinel with a power attack during all 3 battles that got a little frustrating... We even scouted the elements to give us a better chance, but still nothing.

Not sure if this is a matching issue or bad luck or power attack being too weak, but felt like I'd throw it out there to see if anyone else had similar issues. All that being said, just attacking walls and never making it through a sentinel we still managed to get in the top 1k. Some of us have gotten rewards, though I have not. I definitely hope that gets addressed rather quickly.

[Eunuchorn]

@Valdamos

They do need a more "particular" matching system, but for something like a quick 4 hour war, everyone is around the same points for a short amount of time essentially, so you prob just had bad luck getting a guild with a powerful sentinel.

Sentinels should work like walls in other games, they have an hp bar that if you power attack & lose, 50% of the bar goes away. This is what people will use alts & their weakest players for since it requires 2 full player bars to kill sentinel

I also noticed people saying guardians were improved? Well we stopped buying & using guardians & still see no difference. I recoend putting all Gmoney towards bonuses for now.

[Demise]

D.
Let battle be declared w/in 30 minutes left of war.
Every other Gree game does this.

So much this. Our guild sat for 30 min after we declared to start the war, and after our second battle, there were 55 minutes left before the war was over. We couldn't do anything and watched our rank drop over 100 places in an hour and knock us down a ribbon. So much bull****.

[paganizer]

Yeah we fought a guild where 70% had the same name... That's pretty stupid

[Ragmondino]

Yeah we fought a guild where 70% had the same name... That's pretty stupid

Why is it? It's a tactic some people think gives them an advantage.
If you having a good scouting system in place, and any half decent guild should have, then it will not make a single bit of difference. Everyone has different strategys, this is just one of them.

[Zodog]

It does make a difference when the list order changes randomly. Eunuchorn has a point with this one. It takes away almost all strategy in the war when you can only reliably know that the GM, GS, and GC will stay the same person. No scouting, no armor switching, it's all just luck at that point. It's just not a valid game mechanic, it sacrifices too much user agency.

[The_]

Not sure if this is a matching issue or bad luck or power attack being too weak

[Tachycardia]

Can we fix the rewards first?

[Stooboot]

U iso guys can complain all u want u had 2 wars already android players haven't had any so sit down and shut up.

[Tachycardia]

I hardly think the first one counts

[-Solo-]

Most of us hardly think this one counts.

[busteroaf]

U iso guys can complain all u want u had 2 wars already android players haven't had any so sit down and shut up.

The iOS and Android systems are different, and iOS has been out for much longer. Thus, we get stuff first. There is no need to sit down and shut up like you say. The fact you just got guilds and the player-base has gotten larger, since it was in Beta until recently (has it been said it is officially out of Beta yet?) should reflect you don't get everything we do. So you patiently grow your gem base and save your money while you wait for us to work out the kinks for your upcoming guild war system.

[Tachycardia]

I was under the impression you were going to exploit it as well.


Every other Gree game makes you pay for a name change. We need this in K&D before guild wars hit. If it doesn't get changed, my guild *will* take advantage of it & change all their names to the same thing to screw w/ scouting reports. I have no control over them, so for the sake of #2-(1)250 guilds, enforce permanames! Maybe even unique per server names, what a concept!

I still think the best guild will win but it can be a bit of an annoyance.

We considered doing it, but opted out.

[Eunuchorn]

I didn't think about making all the same names actually when writing this thread, a strat we considered, but just didn't care enough to enact in the end. Cents did it the first war, & I do support it as a tactic. For guilds who can't have every member fight a top 3 leader spot, it makes scouting a HC or C much more difficult. Now that we at least figured out its changing names mid-battle that kept switching the rosters around, you could even have no name locks, & just fix the roster reorganize trigger to...no trigger at all? lol

[Tachycardia]

I didn't think about making all the same names actually when writing this thread, a strat we considered, but just didn't care enough to enact in the end. Cents did it the first war, & I do support it as a tactic. For guilds who can't have every member fight a top 3 leader spot, it makes scouting a HC or C much more difficult. Now that we at least figured out its changing names mid-battle that kept switching the rosters around, you could even have no name locks, & just fix the roster reorganize trigger to...no trigger at all? lol

It slowed us down a bit but if you use Line and scouting appropriately, it's just a speed bump.

I don't understand all the issues Gree seems to have implementing changes.
They already have several other games running similar scenarios so I assume it's perhaps a lack of personnel allocated to K&D?

How are rewards for your guilds?
Our main was given none whereas our feeder got them immediately.

[shukai84]

Most of us hardly think this one counts.

haha i always like ur signature! It cool!

[Brvan]

I was just thinking that gree should put a permanent icon of the guild war next to the arena icon. It is better than waiting it to load everytime. And not always be able to load. That will make it better.
Just my personal opinion

[prior14]

Eun you bring 1 thought to mind

You say you spend over 100 gems an hour ? Im sorry unless your a multi millionaire and you dont care about money how can you afford to buy all those gems ?

The only other way is you have got the cheat activated which gives you unlimited gems and gold which i think you have ! So gree please look at this account and if he is spending thousands of pounds on gems good on you but maybe to make the game fare for the average jo there should be a limit on the amount someone can spend in the wars etc

[deathexe]

Eun you bring 1 thought to mind

You say you spend over 100 gems an hour ? Im sorry unless your a multi millionaire and you dont care about money how can you afford to buy all those gems ?

The only other way is you have got the cheat activated which gives you unlimited gems and gold which i think you have ! So gree please look at this account and if he is spending thousands of pounds on gems good on you but maybe to make
the game fare for the average jo there should be a limit on the amount someone can spend in the wars etc

Considering how it was only a four hour war, that would roughly equate to 400gems, and therefore roughly 50-60 bucks. It doesn't take a multi-millionaire to get that amount of gems, and your accusations are very much insulting. A thousand pounds on gems seem a little exaggerated for 400 gems don't you think?

[Meepo]

As to name changes, if you aren't picking one target & farming over & over, you're playing the game wrong. Let me assure you, enemy war rosters changing at will was not intended by Gree.

"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I believe changing names adds another dimension to the guild wars and makes the game more interesting. It sounds like you are simply butthurt because the game is not the way YOU want it to be.

[prior14]

If you think he spends 400 in war and say he opens 11 chests a week at 300 and other things he must be spending 100 pounds a week on gems 400 a month that 4800 pounds a year ! Im sorry who has hat sort of money to throw around ? You cant say it doesn't raise questions m8, i have see the cheat working and it works i watched the 300gem for 11 chests opened 10 times :(

Now im not a cheat ! I hate cheaters if you cant play a game on normal rules then dont play !

Like i said if he is spending that on gems then good on him but there should be a limit put on so that the rich dont rule a game everyone should be able to have fun playing a game but if you can never get anywhere whats the point ?

I do buy gems and spend them but i cant afford to keep up with the way eun seams to buy and spend hes

[busteroaf]

If you think he spends 400 in war and say he opens 11 chests a week at 300 and other things he must be spending 100 pounds a week on gems 400 a month that 4800 pounds a year ! Im sorry who has hat sort of money to throw around ? You cant say it doesn't raise questions m8, i have see the cheat working and it works i watched the 300gem for 11 chests opened 10 times :(

Now im not a cheat ! I hate cheaters if you cant play a game on normal rules then dont play !

Like i said if he is spending that on gems then good on him but there should be a limit put on so that the rich dont rule a game everyone should be able to have fun playing a game but if you can never get anywhere whats the point ?

I do buy gems and spend them but i cant afford to keep up with the way eun seams to buy and spend hes

Point 1. You forget there are also ways to get free gems. Just saying. And why can't someone have that much money to spend? I know people who used to spend $1000 a month on a similar style card game. $1000. A. Month. That's a cheap new car every year. What people spend money on is their prerogative.

Point 2. You aren't a cheater, yet you've "seen the cheat working"... how is that? A friend? Sounds like you have some people that need to be investigated. Claiming someone is a cheater is a big thing to claim. Watch yourself with that. With the amount of people who have labeled Eun and other RR members cheats, I really doubt Gree wouldn't have caught it by now. Also, considering he wasn't the top point earner in the last guild war... what does that say about the rest of the squad? All cheaters? Or all chose to spend money on a game?

Point 3. As long as you can buy in-game currency... the powers that be will likely NEVER institute a cap on spending. Why? ITS THEIR MAJOR SOURCE OF INCOME! Yes, put a cap on their income. Genius freaking idea. "Oh, it makes the game more fair" You want a fair game? Go play something else. This game is not it. Games like this with micro-transactions will always be "unfair" to those who don't spend money, or as much money. Deal with it.

Point 4. You admit you can't keep up with certain people in this game. Congrats. Not many of us can. But you either accept it, or... accept it. Nothing you say will change the way the game works.

[Ragmondino]

Seriously? £4800 a year?? Your actually serious?
In the other games I know people who spend more than that a month easily..
So I'm sure people can in this as well.

[busteroaf]

I believe changing names adds another dimension to the guild wars and makes the game more interesting. It sounds like you are simply butthurt because the game is not the way YOU want it to be.

Mentioning the B word again = me dying a little more on the inside +1.

Please note that Eun is not the only person to mention this topic. Also, you missed the part where he says he supports it as a tactic, but as a guild we decided not to do it. That doesn't sound like he's whining about the game not being how he wants it.

Please try again.

[Thatzme]

So many stupid and naive people on forums.

This game is free to play - so how do these companies earn revenue? Simply by advertising other apps/games through vids? Grow up people - nothing is free. Revenue is earned from in app purchases and to game co like Gree - the more gems more profits!

And free players like yourself who is accusing others of cheating are benefitting from those big gem spenders. They bankroll the company to keep on maintaining the game servers and come out with improvements and better events so all of us can keep on enjoying this game. If this game is not earning money for Gree - be sure to know it will die and make way for other games that will generate the dough for Gree.

This is just simple business theory. Please learn to think before posting all these accusations and obvious envy of those who use their disposable income on this game.

[prior14]

I take it you didnt read my post before or read that i put clearly, i will say again ! Read the words i use

If someone has that sort of money to spend on the game, good on them (this means congrats you have that much money sitting around to waste on a game) if you want to spend your money on it go for it, its your money!

Yes there are free gems but not that much as i get as many free as i can and i buy on top, but i do have a life, house bills to pay and children to pay for so my funds are limited.

No im not a cheater, point i should put which is no ones business, is i know alot of people as i run my own business, alot of them are family's where there are children who i talk to on a friend bases and it was one of these children that likes playing these types of game like i do and i said to him i started playing this game and he said i do aswell, have you got the cheat on, i asked what cheat and he showed me. Like i said i watched him open 110 chests.

Let me put it now, i dont know hes player name and he doesnt play in my guild as i wouldnt let him as i do not agree with cheating !!! As i have made very clear

Also you can see this cheat working !! On you tube so its not hard to see it work

Also im not saying anyone was cheating but when people get this high when normal people get nowhere near there points and not by a small bit, what was the winning point this war 1.2 million or around that where most others are around 50000. Like i said this does raise an eye brow this is alot of different and as i was saying gree should just check these high players to make sure there not cheating ! I was not pointing fingers but not everyone up there can be buying that many gems ! if they are gree have got the biggest gold mine running ! Good on them if it is but they should still be stoping anyone that is cheating.

Next yes they are earning on the game but by putting a limit on gem spending while in war would make the game more strategy other than who has the biggest wallet, as i said the rich are taking over the game, they will play it for a few months but i will be here for years ! So who do you look after ?

As for saying deal with it m8 i dont need to, i have alot of real friends who i see daily and i have a very full life so i dont need a game to make me happy in life or to give me friends in a fake digital world. I play this game because i enjoy playing if i didnt i wouldnt play. I bet most was sitting at home by there selfs playing guild wars the other day, when i was at a house party with 20 mates where 3 of us when online when we needed to get on to play and still had a great time drinking and have a laugh with our real mates.

I dont know why you have taken what i said to heart so much as the word you use make you sound annoyed and stressed. I speak ENGLISH m8 as i am english and by the way you have read this and not understood the words i have used means your american. My advise chill out, stop taking thing so serious this isnt what life is about, its about having a laugh and enjoying things that you do. And read things properly before you start going off on one m8.

Nothing i have said is putting anyone down, aimed at anyone or aggressive its just what i think. So please all have fun playing ! that is what it is about and have a good life :)

[Silent follower]

I didn't think about making all the same names actually when writing this thread, a strat we considered, but just didn't care enough to enact in the end. Cents did it the first war, & I do support it as a tactic. For guilds who can't have every member fight a top 3 leader spot, it makes scouting a HC or C much more difficult. Now that we at least figured out its changing names mid-battle that kept switching the rosters around, you could even have no name locks, & just fix the roster reorganize trigger to...no trigger at all? lol

There is one drawback I can see with all having the same name. How do you know who is being targeted and needs to change his line-up? And as somebody else wrote, the name change is just a speed bump. Therefore I see the drawbacks being bigger than the wins of having the same name for all members.

[Thatzme]

Next yes they are earning on the game but by putting a limit on gem spending while in war would make the game more strategy other than who has the biggest wallet, as i said the rich are taking over the game, they will play it for a few months but i will be here for years ! So who do you look after ?

TL;DR but this portion caught my eye.

I see your point abt gem spending limiting usage of strategy in guild wars - however like I've mentioned, to game companies like Gree, profits are eveything and guild wars is actually a huge tool for them to milk gem spending. The rivalry, competition and rewards will push more players to spend - Gree will def not limit its own profit earnings by limiting usage during wars. Hence the discounts during war - making it even more enticing to buy them.

Ur viewpoint is gem spenders will not stay around to play this game for long, or as long as you. I beg to differ - Examples: Chorn has been around for at least 6 months now and I don't see him quittig anytime soon. He's even more involved in this game, his guild and community than u r. Myself i have been spending quite a bit, I don't see myself quitting this game anytime soon, felt that i have invested too much and my responsibility towards my guild ensures that I'll be here for quite a while. And quite frankly, i'll tell u who Gree will favor - people who spend money on their games.

[Marco_]

Games like this with micro-transactions will always be "unfair" to those who don't spend money, or as much money. Deal with it.

Counterpoint to that would be League of Legends.
Let's say you start a new account, drop $1000 on it for in-game purchases, what can you get:
- all 115 champions, but that's still 115 champions you need to learn how to play first
- maximum amount of rune pages, but it still takes hundreds of games to farm the Influence Points for runes to fill them all
- skins, only make you look pretty
- XP boosts, gets you quicker to level 30 to start ranked play, severely gimps the amount of Influence Points you get on your road to level 30, which you would then have to compensate for with IP boosts to prevent ending up with a lack of (good) runes...

It's almost "unfair" how much a clueless big spender can waste in that game without getting any real advantage or possibly even giving him/herself a disadvantage... ;)

[Thatzme]

Counterpoint to that would be League of Legends.
Let's say you start a new account, drop $1000 on it for in-game purchases, what can you get:
- all 115 champions, but that's still 115 champions you need to learn how to play first
- maximum amount of rune pages, but it still takes hundreds of games to farm the Influence Points for runes to fill them all
- skins, only make you look pretty
- XP boosts, gets you quicker to level 30 to start ranked play, severely gimps the amount of Influence Points you get on your road to level 30, which you would then have to compensate for with IP boosts to prevent ending up with a lack of (good) runes...

It's almost "unfair" how much a clueless big spender can waste in that game without getting any real advantage or possibly even giving him/herself a disadvantage... ;)

Spending money gives you access to it - it doesn't matter if those elements are fully utilized. But the point is spending will always give you the edge because you get access to items/features others don't. Whether you r dumb enough not to make full use of those features u paid for is an entirely different argument altogether.

[busteroaf]

I take it you didnt read my post before or read that i put clearly, i will say again ! Read the words i use


Read the words you use. Okay mate. Oh, sorry. I must have missed where it is actually spelled m8 in proper English. I re-read the words you use. Oh where to start picking this one apart:

You say "good on them" for having disposable income, but then turn around and say your funds are limited. Okay, yes, I said that too. Not everyone can keep up with the top spenders. We agree. But originally you said you questioned how he could spend that much, hence the start of this post:


If you think he spends 400 in war and say he opens 11 chests a week at 300 and other things he must be spending 100 pounds a week on gems 400 a month that 4800 pounds a year ! Im sorry who has hat sort of money to throw around ? You cant say it doesn't raise questions m8, i have see the cheat working and it works i watched the 300gem for 11 chests opened 10 times :(

Now im not a cheat ! I hate cheaters if you cant play a game on normal rules then dont play !

Like i said if he is spending that on gems then good on him but there should be a limit put on so that the rich dont rule a game everyone should be able to have fun playing a game but if you can never get anywhere whats the point ?

I do buy gems and spend them but i cant afford to keep up with the way eun seams to buy and spend hes

This is where you said you can't afford to keep up, and that there should be spending limits so the rich don't rule... did I read that wrong? If I'm not mistaken, you then said "everyone should be able to have fun... but if you can never get anywhere whats the point?" You can get somewhere. Plenty of people get far without spending money on gems. Or wait, did you mean that "you can't get as far" as the rich people, as if they have an unfair advantage due to them spending money. Yeah, there's where I'm seeing you say its unfair. Maybe I read too much into your statement, but, that is what I got out of your "words". Next.

Also, not naming names, but my friends cousins dog walkers sister also showed me this same cheat and where to find it on youtube... give me a break. One of your business friends who has kids who plays the same game just happened to have the cheat, and you watched them open the chest... whatever. And you don't agree with cheating because you've said it. I've got 4 arms and 3 extra fingers per hand. I said it, does that mean its true or that you have to believe it? Also, the way you said you talk to the kids on a friend basis... that just sounds creepy dude. Next...

As far as points in the war: There were multiple guilds with high point totals. Are they cheaters too? Trust me. Any guilds who have ranked high in either of the wars are surely under scrutiny. Again, you're making assumptions that people need to be investigated. Accusation #2. There is also such a thing with max level guilds who have more members than all the other "average" guilds, thus they generate more points. Next.

As far as Gree having a gold mine if everyone is buying gems like this? Ding ding ding. You finally get it. But, sadly, I don't think you actually do. And yes, they still stop cheaters. Next.

Again. Putting a limit on spending during a war is like saying you can only have a one drink maximum during St. Patrick's day at the bar. Moronic. Understand Gree wants to make as much money as humanly possible. People spending lots now or a little over time. Who do you look after? Anyone else want to answer this? You want the money now. There is no guarantee that you or anyone else will spend money tomorrow. Did you sign a contract with Gree saying you'd be here in 10 years? I bet they won't be. They'll cash out as soon as the money dries up, but you'll still be expecting a game to play won't you? Oh, and you want it to be more "strategic"... yeah. Good luck convincing Gree to take a pay cut. Next.

And you have real life friends? I'm SO proud of you. 20 people at the party huh? Nice number btw... I feel so lonely and pathetic with my 19 friends over here. And you play because its fun? That is why we're all here. If you can find someone who plays because it angers them, I'll buy your next gem pack. Also, you took time out of your busy 20 mate party when you when online? (I think you meant "went" but I'm not going to critique your spelling or grammar here) Good for you. You must be so popular. Took time out of your busy party to have a few guild wars with your buds while toasting some suds and having a good time. Yes, you are SO much better than anyone who WASN'T at a party with their mates and was playing. Yawn. Next.

Why I take it to heart? I'm simply defending my guildmate... sorry, let me put it in proper ENGLISH... guildm8, and countering many of your poorly thought out points. I don't stress about this game. I play it for fun just like you. Next.

Yes, I am American. By saying that I've not understood the words you used means I'm American, sounds like a bit of a put down is it not? Or is my simple American mind too feeble to understand your big words? You haven't aimed anything you said at anyone, yet you must have forgotten that you said you think Eun was cheating in the following post:



The only other way is you have got the cheat activated which gives you unlimited gems and gold which i think you have ! So gree please look at this account and if he is spending thousands of pounds on gems good on you but maybe to make the game fare for the average jo there should be a limit on the amount someone can spend in the wars etc

And, last time I checked, you can't get in trouble for things you think, as long as you keep them to yourself. Once you make it known to others what you think, then you get in trouble.

Funny story from Jimmy V. "I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em."

[Eunuchorn]

Dear God,

Did Prior14 claim his native language is English?

[busteroaf]

Dear God,

Did Prior14 claim his native language is English?

Was that "Dear God" meant in the "I'm writing a letter to God" style, or were you saying it more as an exclamatory statement?

I'm American, so I don't understand words good.

[Meepo]

Mentioning the B word again = me dying a little more on the inside +1.

Please note that Eun is not the only person to mention this topic. Also, you missed the part where he says he supports it as a tactic, but as a guild we decided not to do it. That doesn't sound like he's whining about the game not being how he wants it.

Please try again.

Why don't you try going to Eunuchorn's original post and try reading it? It clearly says "Lock names". What part of that makes it seem like he supports name changing as a tactic? Please explain your reasoning to me.

Also, the tactic he says he supports is that of everyone in a guild having the SAME NAME, not CHANGING their name. Please read more carefully next time.

[busteroaf]

Why don't you try going to Eunuchorn's original post and try reading it? It clearly says "Lock names". What part of that makes it seem like he supports name changing as a tactic? Please explain your reasoning to me.

Also, the tactic he says he supports is that of everyone in a guild having the SAME NAME, not CHANGING their name. Please read more carefully next time.

You're right. I misread it and was looking at something different.

[Alitia]

Mentioning the B word again = me dying a little more on the inside +1.

Please note that Eun is not the only person to mention this topic. Also, you missed the part where he says he supports it as a tactic, but as a guild we decided not to do it. That doesn't sound like he's whining about the game not being how he wants it.

Please try again.

Are you suggesting that Meepo is in the wrong by saying what he did? Because by the looks of it, when I checked eun, meepo, and your comments about the issue of using name changing as a tactic, it was not evident in eun's comment that he supports it as a tactic but actually says he supports use of same names as a tactic. It sure sounds like he's at least suggesting some sort of whinging about the ability to change names during the guild wars process. Its perfectly normal. It seems that he feels it is unfair and would prefer that the trigger to reorder the list when your name changes to be nonexistent is all he says. So, has dying a little more inside +1 affected your reading abilities?

I'd also like to point out that if particular persons are getting farmed on continuously, they have right to find ways to defend themselves. It is a guild war after all.

Edit: Sorry, just read your post.

[busteroaf]

See, what had happened was, is I see the word "butthurt" in a post and I immediately go into a fiery rage and lose all control. No, seriously, I do. And I have 4 arms and 3 extra fingers per hand. I've said it twice now. That means its fact.

Yeah, I was wrong. And wanting something changed does not instantly mean he's whining though, which is what everyone jumped to. I think there should be more free gems. There, I said it, but I'm not whining about it, just stating something I think should happen. All in the context.

I assure you though, if every guild uses the changing names mid-war tactic to refresh the list, most everyone else will probably want it locked too after everyone realizes how annoying it is. It is a hell of a lot easier to farm someone if they stay in the same spot, thus generating more points, thus leading to more victories and higher rankings, thus better prizes.

Also, from the money standpoint: If I can easily farm someone, I'm going to spend more money and farm that person non-stop because I know I can get points. If I had to constantly search for someone to fight, or when the names re-org, have to search for them in order to farm them, it actually slows down my energy expenditure, and my energy purchase, since it is taking me longer to use my energy. This is actually a money GENERATING idea he's proposing to Gree.

[Eunuchorn]

[QUOTE=Alitia;
I'd also like to point out that if particular persons are getting farmed on continuously, they have right to find ways to defend themselves. It is a guild war after all.[/QUOTE]

It's called being active & changing your armor set up.

We could use a projection check, because I'm pretty sure I'm not whining, & that my suggestions will benefit every single guild out there.

If names are not locked, I see nothing wrong w/ every guild member using the same name. Whether character names get locked or lot, the roster has no need to reset itself. Like Buster said, every second someone spends having to track down the enemy GM is a second that Grees IPH is falling drastically.

[Meepo]

Eunuchorn, you have to remember that not everyone has moontide, blazeborne, cloudrange or techtonic in their arsenal. There are a lot of people who would give a lot of points, but are still only using the big/bigger four. They should be given the freedom to avoid getting farmed on.

Also, they can still be farmed on to a certain extent even if they do change their names because to do so, the following has to occur:

-The server has to register that they are getting beaten repeatedly.
-They have to open up the battle log and see that they are being beaten repeatedly.
-They have to change their name

However, if a guild wants to farm on a particular person, all they have to do is have the scout tell the rest of the guild a name and the whole guild can easily get at least one fight each against that person. Beating up the same guy repeatedly without him being able to do anything about it is completely unreasonable.

[Marco_]

Spending money gives you access to it - it doesn't matter if those elements are fully utilized. But the point is spending will always give you the edge because you get access to items/features others don't. Whether you r dumb enough not to make full use of those features u paid for is an entirely different argument altogether.
Your argument kind of sounds like "I have 15 cars in my garage, so I have an edge on driving on the highway"...
Riot specifically designed their system for League of Legends to limit "buying power".

[Thatzme]

Your argument kind of sounds like "I have 15 cars in my garage, so I have an edge on driving on the highway"...
Riot specifically designed their system for League of Legends to limit "buying power".

To quote ur example - spending will not give me 15 cars, but instead it will pimp my car to the max. So that gives me an edge over other cars of the same model cos i have turbo boost, refitted engine, whatever work u can do to pimp a car out. Now this car can run on the same speed or be faster than others, as long as I use the extra features I have to make it go faster, becos i have access to these features. Get it?

I dun play LoL, i'm just trying to make sense of your point to buster. Gree is def not heading into the same direction - it wants players to pay more to win.

[Eunuchorn]

Eunuchorn, you have to remember that not everyone has moontide, blazeborne, cloudrange or techtonic in their arsenal. There are a lot of people who would give a lot of points, but are still only using the big/bigger four. They should be given the freedom to avoid getting farmed on.

Again, be active during a battle & change your lineup? ps. I don't have a moon, van, or tec.



Also, they can still be farmed on to a certain extent even if they do change their names because to do so, the following has to occur:
-The server has to register that they are getting beaten repeatedly.
-They have to open up the battle log and see that they are being beaten repeatedly.
-They have to change their name
Your half right, but the other half is I get my 5 weakest players to just sit & change their name every 20-30 seconds. Or coordinate my entire guild to change names between fights. Sounds like fun, actually.



However, if a guild wants to farm on a particular person, all they have to do is have the scout tell the rest of the guild a name and the whole guild can easily get at least one fight each against that person. Beating up the same guy repeatedly without him being able to do anything about it is completely unreasonable.

Thanks for telling us how wars sort of work? My guess is this would be your first Gree game?
There's only 3 enemies worth killing. GM, Sent, or Champ. If you don't scout these immediately, your doing it wrong. If you start scouting HCs before GL armors are scouted, your doing it wrong.

If you think attacking the highest point-yielding targets over & over is the wrong way to play, I assure you it isn't. If I'm being targeted in a war, I switch armor, or just move my 3 around, problem solved. If I'm asleep & enemy guild drops 1000 gems on me, well they're gonna gain some ranking.

I'm liking more & more this name change resetting roster thing. Maybe some of you noobs were right & didn't even know why other than hating Eunuchorns.

[Marco_]

To quote ur example - spending will not give me 15 cars, but instead it will pimp my car to the max. So that gives me an edge over other cars of the same model cos i have turbo boost, refitted engine, whatever work u can do to pimp a car out. Now this car can run on the same speed or be faster than others, as long as I use the extra features I have to make it go faster, becos i have access to these features. Get it?

I dun play LoL, i'm just trying to make sense of your point to buster. Gree is def not heading into the same direction - it wants players to pay more to win.
Ah, I quoted "Games like this with micro-transactions" and pointed to LoL as another game with microtransactions but without silly "pay2win" stuff, then you go "nah, I'm going to reply talking about pay2win anyway". My point was that: no, in LoL paying doesn't get you that turbo boosted car, but at best lots of normal/average cars and some with shiny gold paint, leather seats etc. , but not driving any faster/sharper/etc.

[Alitia]

Like Buster said, every second someone spends having to track down the enemy GM is a second that Grees IPH is falling drastically.

It's not hard to locate the higher ranks in a guild. They have labels so you lose a few seconds searching for GM or GS, etc but why are you supporting GREE in their greed? You're just planting ideas so they can make more money by saying that. Even Buster said that there should be more free gems and said you are proposing a money generating idea to GREE.

[Meepo]

Again, be active during a battle & change your lineup? ps. I don't have a moon, van, or tec.

Let's say, for example, that an entire guild has the cloudrange+ armor and the GM they are beating on only has the big 4. What does changing armors do? Jack squat!


Your half right, but the other half is I get my 5 weakest players to just sit & change their name every 20-30 seconds. Or coordinate my entire guild to change names between fights. Sounds like fun, actually.

It is a lot of work, but is a valid strategy. It would reward the guild that puts more effort into the war. There are many aspects of the game that are not much fun (farming snakeskins), but are necessary (unless you spend gems) in order to succeed in the game.


Thanks for telling us how wars sort of work? My guess is this would be your first Gree game?
There's only 3 enemies worth killing. GM, Sent, or Champ. If you don't scout these immediately, your doing it wrong. If you start scouting HCs before GL armors are scouted, your doing it wrong.

If you think attacking the highest point-yielding targets over & over is the wrong way to play, I assure you it isn't. If I'm being targeted in a war, I switch armor, or just move my 3 around, problem solved. If I'm asleep & enemy guild drops 1000 gems on me, well they're gonna gain some ranking.

I'm liking more & more this name change resetting roster thing. Maybe some of you noobs were right & didn't even know why other than hating Eunuchorns.

I'm not saying that it is the wrong way to play. It is a very good strat, but the target has to be able to do something about it. It doesn't matter whether it is a GREE game or not, I'm just saying it is an element that lets a weaker player mitigate the amount of points he feeds to an enemy guild.

[Eunuchorn]

Let's say, for example, that an entire guild has the cloudrange+ armor and the GM they are beating on only has the big 4. What does changing armors do? Jack squat!

Worst example you could have possibly picked, btw. I lost plenty of battles because the person switched their 1st & 2nd knight. You know certain elements do more damage against other certain elements right?



It is a lot of work, but is a valid strategy. It would reward the guild that puts more effort into the war. There are many aspects of the game that are not much fun (farming snakeskins), but are necessary (unless you spend gems) in order to succeed in the game.

Actually, getting to 60 kills on every boss for last 9 months is "a lot of work". Having your guild change their names every 10 seconds instead of finding targets to attack is...well it's typing.



I'm not saying that it is the wrong way to play. It is a very good strat, but the target has to be able to do something about it. It doesn't matter whether it is a GREE game or not, I'm just saying it is an element that lets a weaker player mitigate the amount of points he feeds to an enemy guild.

I'm sorry this just didn't make sense to me. You restated your viewpoint as if you were referencing something. I can almost guarantee you this is not currently working as intended.

You just keep telling me over & over what it is.

[Meepo]

Worst example you could have possibly picked, btw. I lost plenty of battles because the person switched their 1st & 2nd knight. You know certain elements do more damage against other certain elements right?

It is not a bad example. There are plenty of situations where someone with only the big four is stuck having to fight against people with legendary/epic armors. I know that some elements are better than others, but try putting a level 99/99 cloudrange against a 50/50 crius armor, tell me who wins.



Actually, getting to 60 kills on every boss for last 9 months is "a lot of work". Having your guild change their names every 10 seconds instead of finding targets to attack is...well it's typing.

What I do outside of games involves typing continuously for long periods of time, and I will tell you now that typing continuously for the duration of a guild war is much more work than checking something every 5 hours.



I'm sorry this just didn't make sense to me. You restated your viewpoint as if you were referencing something. I can almost guarantee you this is not currently working as intended.

You just keep telling me over & over what it is.

I am saying that it is a feature that should remain available to make it fair for those who get targeted. When you are getting beaten up, you don't just sit there for people to keep beating you up, you should be given the option to run and hide/disguise yourself.

[Tachycardia]

Dear God,

Did Prior14 claim his native language is English?

Not with a straight face I hope

[Marco_]

It is not a bad example. There are plenty of situations where someone with only the big four is stuck having to fight against people with legendary/epic armors. I know that some elements are better than others, but try putting a level 99/99 cloudrange against a 50/50 crius armor, tell me who wins.

double KO is my guess.
Either Android arena top 500 has lots of underleveled Moons or my AA+ and DP+ just like chopping up Moons... ;)

[busteroaf]

It's not hard to locate the higher ranks in a guild. They have labels so you lose a few seconds searching for GM or GS, etc but why are you supporting GREE in their greed? You're just planting ideas so they can make more money by saying that. Even Buster said that there should be more free gems and said you are proposing a money generating idea to GREE.

Yes, I said there should be more free gems in regards to what I said not being whining and context. Eun had nothing to do with my statement other than me saying just because he said it didn't mean he was whining. I said Eun's idea about locking names is actually a money generating idea for Gree. Two separate thoughts, that are independent of each other.

[Meepo]

Well, I believe that damage is somehow proportional to: (attacking person's attack)/(defending person's defence) multiplied by the appropriate element multiplier (tell me the correct damage formula if I am wrong). In arena, even my Bkal+ loses to a high level blazeborne in a fair fight, so it would be impossible for a person using the big four to defend themselves against a guild with many legendary/epic armors.

[Jman]

Any player who ever plans on spending gems for war energy refills in the future needs to demand we receive full points if battle ends during your fight.
Well maybe you shouldn't have pressed fight with 10 seconds left.


As to name changes, if you aren't picking one target & farming over & over, you're playing the game wrong. Let me assure you, enemy war rosters changing at will was not intended by Gree.
And how do you know what gree intended? If the name changes then you are forced to scout again, and therefore spend more gems = MORE MONEY FOR GREE. I think that is what they intended.

[busteroaf]

Well maybe you shouldn't have pressed fight with 10 seconds left.


And how do you know what gree intended? If the name changes then you are forced to scout again, and therefore spend more gems = MORE MONEY FOR GREE. I think that is what they intended.

Point 1: Lag spikes can last much longer than 10 seconds. Plus battles last longer than that as well. Try again.

Point 2: Doubtful. If you are going full on farm-mode, you'll spend more hitting the same person over and over than if you have to go scout again (literally or by scrolling). Your idea wastes gems and time, and does not use them in a useful way. You spend more when you know its being productive. Scouting isn't the best use of gems for heavy hitters. Try again.

[Eunuchorn]

Jman, you misunderstand. I don't have to use gems again, I just have to scroll through the list of targets because they shuffle alphabetically apparently. It's a time waster for anyone who is in a guild, end of story.

Cut off your nose despite your face much?
Or was it cut off your nose to spite the Eunuchorn?

[Tachycardia]

Despite his face?

[Alitia]

Yes, I said there should be more free gems in regards to what I said not being whining and context. Eun had nothing to do with my statement other than me saying just because he said it didn't mean he was whining. I said Eun's idea about locking names is actually a money generating idea for Gree. Two separate thoughts, that are independent of each other.

Sorry. Since we are being so careful to what we say, let me correct myself.

Even though Buster said that there should be more free gems in regards to it not being in a whining context, it is still a profereable comment in comparison to saying that we should be giving GREE ideas to generate more money. Buster also happened to mention you, eun, are proposing a money generating idea to GREE by suggesting name locking. Something I believe that many people do not desire beisdes GREE themselves.

There two sentences. Two thoughts. I don't even know what was the point of that. LOL

[busteroaf]

Sorry. Since we are being so careful to what we say, let me correct myself.

Even though Buster said that there should be more free gems in regards to it not being in a whining context, it is still a profereable comment in comparison to saying that we should be giving GREE ideas to generate more money. Buster also happened to mention you, eun, are proposing a money generating idea to GREE by suggesting name locking. Something I believe that many people do not desire beisdes GREE themselves.

There two sentences. Two thoughts. I don't even know what was the point of that. LOL

Well, I didn't see it as he was making the comment just to make Gree money, but it is a money generating idea nonetheless.

Also, as more guilds encounter this tactic... let me ask you the following questions (because I already know my answers):

- Would you prefer to waste time searching for the GM, GS, GC while farming teams for wins, or be able to know who you are battling at all times? Is it more or less fun for you? Or better, does it impact the fun level by having these tactics?

- Also, for those that can't consistently farm those with clear guild tags, due to whatever reason, do you think it will be harder or easier to participate? Wait, let me rephrase that... Will it be harder or easier to contribute to your guild during guild war if you have to constantly scout?

- Who DOES want this? This being, the ability to change the list at random, providing the guild with a defensive strategy, knowing that you can have the same done to you.

Remember, you don't get points for defensive battles. You get points for offensive battles. So the less points you can earn, the less bonus points for wins, etc. Think about it. Then answer.

[Alitia]

- Would you prefer to waste time searching for the GM, GS, GC while farming teams for wins, or be able to know who you are battling at all times? Is it more or less fun for you? Or better, does it impact the fun level by having these tactics?

I don't see how it's wasting time. You'd still have to use your eyes to look down the list to see those titles. As for knowing who to farm on, that's different. I get that. But these tactics are supposed to frustrate the opposing team. That's what makes it fun. Even though it would annoy me, it wouldn't bother me that much. So my level of fun would remain relatively unchanged.



- Also, for those that can't consistently farm those with clear guild tags, due to whatever reason, do you think it will be harder or easier to participate? Wait, let me rephrase that... Will it be harder or easier to contribute to your guild during guild war if you have to constantly scout?

It's a demoralising tactic. To me, these strategies are about making it more difficult to contribute to the guild. Its suppose to and i think its smart for what its worth.

Have you seen the movie, Red Cliff 1 and 2? It's so awesome.



- Who DOES want this? This being, the ability to change the list at random, providing the guild with a defensive strategy, knowing that you can have the same done to you.

Remember, you don't get points for defensive battles. You get points for offensive battles. So the less points you can earn, the less bonus points for wins, etc. Think about it. Then answer.

I have thought about. It just means everyone would get less points overall. Big whoop. Of course you'd want to achieve as many points as you can but if you can't due to the other teams strategies then what can you do? Just deal with it. It's happened to me and probably every other guild. You can complain about it but you and everyone else has the right to use it. If you choose not to then that's fine. But others have the free will to do so and what's wrong with that? Because it will affect your efficiency? It would everyone's efficiency if everyone used the same tactic. It just depends whether you choose to use it or not. And if GREE happens to do as eun suggests and prevents such tactics from being useable, people would get bothered by it. So no matter which way it goes, it's still going to be an issue. I think that this a never ending cycle of questions and replies. However, I understand where you and your team is coming from. I hope you understand from this perspective as well.

[Meepo]

Demoralising tactics are a part of war. In a war, a defending side can use it as a tactic to discourage the other team from attacking. It shouldn't matter how many people you take out, as long as your guild gets victory.

If you can win without spilling blood, shouldn't that be rewarded?

Also, the point bonus for victory against other guilds should be made higher. It would reward the 'enough but only enough' strategy, which should apply to any war.

[busteroaf]

Demoralising tactics are a part of war. In a war, a defending side can use it as a tactic to discourage the other team from attacking. It shouldn't matter how many people you take out, as long as your guild gets victory.

If you can win without spilling blood, shouldn't that be rewarded?

Also, the point bonus for victory against other guilds should be made higher. It would reward the 'enough but only enough' strategy, which should apply to any war.

If you can win without spilling blood, by all means, go for it, but that currently isn't how the wars are scored. And when the team that can pummel the crap out of an opposing guild, does... don't get mad when they score millions more points than you do by just defending (since currently you get none).

Also, it can be extremely demoralizing for the attacker to pummel the crap out of you, to the point where you say "there is no way we can come back from that loss... lets just give up."

[Meepo]

I know that's how wars are scored, captain obvious. I'm just saying that wars SHOULD benefit legitimate wartime tactics rather than mindlessly pummelling the other side.

[Thatzme]

I know that's how wars are scored, captain obvious. I'm just saying that wars SHOULD benefit legitimate wartime tactics rather than mindlessly pummelling the other side.

I too believe war should have more dimensions to it rather than to find that highest rank and spam ur buttons on it. Thing is - realistically there is only that much u can do on mobile platforms as far as the phone microprocessors can take it. Gree's model for wars takes the same simplistic approach if you look at their other games like MW or KA and I don't see that changing unless apple or android is able to take their processors to a whole new lvl on a mobile platform.

What has been suggested - I'm not siding with anyone - can be implemented now becos it doesn't take much processing power/server to do so. Not gonna go into your arguments - there are a lot of things that SHOULD be in this game, but be mindful of limitations.

[busteroaf]

I know that's how wars are scored, captain obvious. I'm just saying that wars SHOULD benefit legitimate wartime tactics rather than mindlessly pummelling the other side.

Okay, so... they should benefit from legitimate wartime tactics of "demoralization." How else will these wars play out with wartime tactics? Hiding behind other guilds? Hiring mercenary guilds to fight battles for you? In real war, once you're dead you are dead. There aren't magic energy refill buttons. Why not have a fight to the finish where last guild standing wins?

I digress... I still think the point of these wars, and energy consumption and the subsequent gem'd (paid or "free") refills is targeted to those who attack, not the defenders. They always will be. Unless they give the guild sentinel the option of refilling health or buffing their own defense in some way, almost like a guardian with a health bar, or where they lose a % each time they are attacked, it will ALWAYS be about who can beat the crap out of the others, the fastest. Why?

The more "tactics" you add into a war, the more strategy it requires. The more it requires, the more you alienate the general public who just want to log in, hit a few buttons, and log out. People who just want a simple "just like arena, but with your friends points added in too" game and are pumping in gems with the thinking that they can compete with other guilds... that is the main player base of these games. Gree needs these wars to be simple in order to maximize short term profits off these mass populace groups. The harder and more complicated things are, the less people will play them. The forum users represent an entirely different crowd of people, including the top tier guilds who will always plunk down the money and time into this game, regardless of degree of difficulty.

[Meepo]

Okay, so... they should benefit from legitimate wartime tactics of "demoralization." How else will these wars play out with wartime tactics? Hiding behind other guilds? Hiring mercenary guilds to fight battles for you? In real war, once you're dead you are dead. There aren't magic energy refill buttons. Why not have a fight to the finish where last guild standing wins?

I digress... I still think the point of these wars, and energy consumption and the subsequent gem'd (paid or "free") refills is targeted to those who attack, not the defenders. They always will be. Unless they give the guild sentinel the option of refilling health or buffing their own defense in some way, almost like a guardian with a health bar, or where they lose a % each time they are attacked, it will ALWAYS be about who can beat the crap out of the others, the fastest. Why?

The more "tactics" you add into a war, the more strategy it requires. The more it requires, the more you alienate the general public who just want to log in, hit a few buttons, and log out. People who just want a simple "just like arena, but with your friends points added in too" game and are pumping in gems with the thinking that they can compete with other guilds... that is the main player base of these games. Gree needs these wars to be simple in order to maximize short term profits off these mass populace groups. The harder and more complicated things are, the less people will play them. The forum users represent an entirely different crowd of people, including the top tier guilds who will always plunk down the money and time into this game, regardless of degree of difficulty.

I'm not suggesting anything overly complicated like that, I am only proposing that:

1. The ability to change names should stay as it is.
2. There should be a few number tweaks in the point system in guild wars to reward actually beating other guilds, rather than repeatedly bashing one person.

There is no need for huge changes, when minor changes like number tweaks can achieve the same thing. How much extra server processing power would that take? Next to nothing at all.

[iH8t2lose2]

double KO is my guess.
Either Android arena top 500 has lots of underleveled Moons or my AA+ and DP+ just like chopping up Moons... ;)

They just have bunch of lvl 35 moontides and quit leveling it because it gets too expensive.

[Eunuchorn]

I'm not suggesting anything overly complicated like that, I am only proposing that:

1. The ability to change names should stay as it is.
2. There should be a few number tweaks in the point system in guild wars to reward actually beating other guilds, rather than repeatedly bashing one person.

There is no need for huge changes, when minor changes like number tweaks can achieve the same thing. How much extra server processing power would that take? Next to nothing at all.

The issue is more the roster moving around, not as much the changing of names at will (or has at least evolved in this thread to that idea). The roster switching isn't a strat, but an accidental byproduct of the programming. Much like when removing someone from friends list used to reset to top of screen. It's a bug & it's being exploited. If Gree does nothing about it before next guild war then I see no reason not to utilize it.

What kind of number tweaks? One team ends w/ more points & gets a win bonus whether they bash one person over & over or go down the list. What kind of system do you have in mind?

[Meepo]

The issue is more the roster moving around, not as much the changing of names at will (or has at least evolved in this thread to that idea). The roster switching isn't a strat, but an accidental byproduct of the programming. Much like when removing someone from friends list used to reset to top of screen. It's a bug & it's being exploited. If Gree does nothing about it before next guild war then I see no reason not to utilize it.

What kind of number tweaks? One team ends w/ more points & gets a win bonus whether they bash one person over & over or go down the list. What kind of system do you have in mind?

The roster moving around is no reason to lock names entirely. Should just order it the same way all the time regardless of names.

The system I have in mind is that the points for beating an enemy guild in battle should be higher. You can by all means feel free to bash on a single person, but it should be the actual VICTORY against your opponent guild that yields you the rewards, not the bashing of that person. A guild with 3/3 wins should be placed higher than a guild with 2/3 wins. Sure, there should be rewards for getting more points in a particular battle, but the current point system focuses too much on "overkilling" your opponents, and not enough on "victory" over your opponents.

[Thatzme]

The roster moving around is no reason to lock names entirely. Should just order it the same way all the time regardless of names.

The system I have in mind is that the points for beating an enemy guild in battle should be higher. You can by all means feel free to bash on a single person, but it should be the actual VICTORY against your opponent guild that yields you the rewards, not the bashing of that person. A guild with 3/3 wins should be placed higher than a guild with 2/3 wins. Sure, there should be rewards for getting more points in a particular battle, but the current point system focuses too much on "overkilling" your opponents, and not enough on "victory" over your opponents.

Ah a league system - winners get 3 pts and losers 0 and see who gets the most pts.
That would not encourage too much spending tbh - not gree's model :)

[busteroaf]

The roster moving around is no reason to lock names entirely. Should just order it the same way all the time regardless of names.

The system I have in mind is that the points for beating an enemy guild in battle should be higher. You can by all means feel free to bash on a single person, but it should be the actual VICTORY against your opponent guild that yields you the rewards, not the bashing of that person. A guild with 3/3 wins should be placed higher than a guild with 2/3 wins. Sure, there should be rewards for getting more points in a particular battle, but the current point system focuses too much on "overkilling" your opponents, and not enough on "victory" over your opponents.

You realize that by what you just said, RR would have won the last guild war, since we were 3/3 and beat the team that was 2/3 but had more points, right? Just throwing that out there.

I've mentioned this before (and not opposed to it either) as a way of rewarding the guild, as I've seen it done in other games. These other games have tiered prizes for the whole guild where if you have, say, 20+ wins, you get XYZ. 14-19 you get YZ, and 13 and below gets you Z. It is an option, but you'd have to have tiers for wins, and then base it on points, or another way to make it fair, and keep from giving out the top prize to 150 guilds that play non-stop just because they got the most wins. There needs to be a clear overall winner. Or at least I feel there should be. How would you approach that? Guild with the highest wins, then points at the end wins? In the end, it still involves bashing your opponent as much and often as you can.

So, just to stir the pot: Does a win against the top ranked guild have more or less weight than a win against a 3 man guild? Or do you get additional "win" points based on the size of the guild defeated, or factor that in as part of a bonus? If not, why? I feel it should matter.

My reasoning - It doesn't take much to win a battle when you're fighting against a bunch of low level guilds, or you find a guild that is half asleep. Should a team that wins against 20 3-man guilds win the same rewards as guilds who fought and won against 20 top tier guilds? If you reward just a victory, then yes. Some people would agree and think yes, a win is a win, is a win, is a win. Others think no, because of the difficulty involved in getting those wins. There are a lot of systems that would need to be put into place in order to fairly make a system based around pure wins.

If it is just random pairing, and one top level guild cruises past a bunch of 1000th ranked guilds, then it will be easier for them. Say RR and Untouchables or Cents or PB get paired against each other 3 or 4 times during a war. Their "strength of schedule" so to speak, makes it a lot harder for them to pile up wins. Is that fair? Is that the system you want? How would you correct it, or make it fair?

[Lord Ash]

I agree... just repeatedly farming a opponent u know u can beat while tossing gems down the drain to refill is pretty boring... It would be much better if points dropped drastically after the first win so if u wanted to spend 100 gems in one hour long battle the only way you could get good points from it was to attack and beat every member of that guild ... Take would be a solid victory not just farming and buying your score up

[busteroaf]

I agree... just repeatedly farming a opponent u know u can beat while tossing gems down the drain to refill is pretty boring... It would be much better if points dropped drastically after the first win so if u wanted to spend 100 gems in one hour long battle the only way you could get good points from it was to attack and beat every member of that guild ... Take would be a solid victory not just farming and buying your score up

So how do you handle a max level guild being paired against a low level guild with only a handful of players? The "farming penalty" or "point reduction" per player adds in a pairing disadvantage to the high level guild. Do points reset and go back to "full" after you've beaten every player? What if you can't beat everyone? Should you be penalized because you can't beat the last person for the point reset?

[Alitia]

I agree... just repeatedly farming a opponent u know u can beat while tossing gems down the drain to refill is pretty boring... It would be much better if points dropped drastically after the first win so if u wanted to spend 100 gems in one hour long battle the only way you could get good points from it was to attack and beat every member of that guild ... Take would be a solid victory not just farming and buying your score up

I agree with you to some extent. I think there should also be a limit to how many points you get after farming a particular opponent. The more you farm, the lesser points you receive but there should be a maximum of how many points after a certain number of kills e.g. You get 380 for the first kill then that declines depending on some formulae and the maximum you receive after let's say 3 kills is 200 for the one person. It would be more preferable I guess.

[Meepo]

You realize that by what you just said, RR would have won the last guild war, since we were 3/3 and beat the team that was 2/3 but had more points, right? Just throwing that out there.

I've mentioned this before (and not opposed to it either) as a way of rewarding the guild, as I've seen it done in other games. These other games have tiered prizes for the whole guild where if you have, say, 20+ wins, you get XYZ. 14-19 you get YZ, and 13 and below gets you Z. It is an option, but you'd have to have tiers for wins, and then base it on points, or another way to make it fair, and keep from giving out the top prize to 150 guilds that play non-stop just because they got the most wins. There needs to be a clear overall winner. Or at least I feel there should be. How would you approach that? Guild with the highest wins, then points at the end wins? In the end, it still involves bashing your opponent as much and often as you can.

So, just to stir the pot: Does a win against the top ranked guild have more or less weight than a win against a 3 man guild? Or do you get additional "win" points based on the size of the guild defeated, or factor that in as part of a bonus? If not, why? I feel it should matter.

My reasoning - It doesn't take much to win a battle when you're fighting against a bunch of low level guilds, or you find a guild that is half asleep. Should a team that wins against 20 3-man guilds win the same rewards as guilds who fought and won against 20 top tier guilds? If you reward just a victory, then yes. Some people would agree and think yes, a win is a win, is a win, is a win. Others think no, because of the difficulty involved in getting those wins. There are a lot of systems that would need to be put into place in order to fairly make a system based around pure wins.

If it is just random pairing, and one top level guild cruises past a bunch of 1000th ranked guilds, then it will be easier for them. Say RR and Untouchables or Cents or PB get paired against each other 3 or 4 times during a war. Their "strength of schedule" so to speak, makes it a lot harder for them to pile up wins. Is that fair? Is that the system you want? How would you correct it, or make it fair?

Im not saying it should purely be wins, but wins should count for more than they currently do. There would be rewards for earning more points overall, but should be outweighed by the victory bonus. Balance is the key when it comes to tweaking the numbers. You would tweak it enough to reward victory as the main aim, but keep the rewards for accumulating points high enough so that stronger guilds stay on top. As with all games it would require testing. Maybe GREE should allocate some of their overpaid staff into having mock guild wars between themselves, like any other good game out there.

As for it not being GREE's model, what do you care about? Is it more important to you that GREE makes money, or for the game to improve in general? This forum should be for the players to voice our opinion on how to make the game better, not on how to feed GREE more money. Right now, the ones who are being farmed repeatedly are the players, and if we are being farmed repeatedly, we should at least make suggestions to make the game more balanced and enjoyable for everyone. Whether the players agree with suggestions or not should not depend on how much money GREE makes off them.

As for RR being the rightful winners, if that is truly the case, I wholeheartedly agree, I just disagree with Eun's idea of locking names because that isn't the right way to go.

[PB_Buncil]

Want to proof who will be the last guild standing #1 in next GW?

This time purely by tactic art of war and dedication and raw power. You dare?

Specailly you RR-- gem eater, dare with the challenge?

We are small but smart and elite force.
Put away your wallet for once, proof who will be the last guild standing.

:cool:

[Renegade223g]

So, I had this whole reply typed out after reading this thread and rereading a few posts because I was lmao, and realized I can boil it down to a few words. It is a fundemental truth I teach my children. "Life is not fair". I don't want to try and put anyone down but that is the truth. I myself have been frustrated that I cannot get certain "items" in this game because I am not willing to spend real money to get it. In the end it was/is a choice I made and will continue to make. The same can be said of most of you. It is a choice you made for this guild war and one you will make at the next one.Lol... I still ended up typing more than I thought it would.Anyway, Eunuchorn, even if you originally created this post because you were angry, as inferred by the responses, I hope Gree takes your valid points along with others suggestions we have made on the forum.

[busteroaf]

Im not saying it should purely be wins, but wins should count for more than they currently do. There would be rewards for earning more points overall, but should be outweighed by the victory bonus. Balance is the key when it comes to tweaking the numbers. You would tweak it enough to reward victory as the main aim, but keep the rewards for accumulating points high enough so that stronger guilds stay on top. As with all games it would require testing. Maybe GREE should allocate some of their overpaid staff into having mock guild wars between themselves, like any other good game out there.

As for it not being GREE's model, what do you care about? Is it more important to you that GREE makes money, or for the game to improve in general? This forum should be for the players to voice our opinion on how to make the game better, not on how to feed GREE more money. Right now, the ones who are being farmed repeatedly are the players, and if we are being farmed repeatedly, we should at least make suggestions to make the game more balanced and enjoyable for everyone. Whether the players agree with suggestions or not should not depend on how much money GREE makes off them.

As for RR being the rightful winners, if that is truly the case, I wholeheartedly agree, I just disagree with Eun's idea of locking names because that isn't the right way to go.

I still disagree with the "victory" bonus being the primary winning catalyst. Again, a high level player that creates his own guild for bonuses can likely still win against many low level guilds doing the same thing. A single player or handful shouldn't have the ability to win the top prizes for a guild war if you have a max level guild pumping out wins vs other max level guilds. Maybe this IS whining, but I'm pretty sure other top tier guilds don't want to share their big winnings with some random joe shmoe guild. I don't feel like we leveled the guilds and max out bonuses just for someone who won the "I got lucky with my war opponents and won my battles" lottery to be able to get top prizes. You want the winner to be someone who won a WAR. Maybe I'm totally delusional here. Anyone?

Me personally, what I want out of guild wars? I like the ability to farm whoever I want, over and over... with the battle log showing that I beat the snot out of them. You know, the name in lights thing. I also want it to show, that if I kept trying time after time, and failed, that you know what, I couldn't beat the other guy. Kudos to them. They deserve to know that they stopped me. For me a victory isn't trying to stop someone from killing me, its being able to stop them from killing me, and still be able to kill them. And I don't want to just outlast them, I want to beat them to a pulp with them having no way to touch me. Again, name in lights thing.

People are crying foul at the person being farmed, or being the person farmed, or the fact that a person can be farmed. If I'm being farmed, there shouldn't just be a magic reset, come find me again cause I changed my name and randomized the guild members list option. If you want to use that tactic, sure... but I feel I should have the right to farm you over and over, without having to suffer a "penalty" for doing so. If I'm the person getting farmed? I should bust my butt, farm more, level/max my armors, or pick a better lineup for next time. Also, as a slight tangent, you do realize, you are being fought against time after time constantly all day long in the arena and you aren't even aware of it right? It doesn't impact your game one bit in this instance. Do you swap armors in the middle of the day to throw off the invisible arena people who you have no idea are working you over? No. Guild wars just lets you see who is getting their butts kicked. What about when you are asleep and someone else in the guild declares war? You're potentially getting bent over with nothing you can do about it. And if you didn't declare war... another guild is likely passing you by while yours is standing idle, either farming points, or farming wins. Just saying.

Also, if war is like sports, which, many coaches say it is, and since its football season, here is an example of "war."

- If a team knows they have a favorable match-up between their receiver and the opponent's cornerback, do they say "you know what, we already threw to that guy twice, we need to spread the ball around."? Does the league penalize them for not passing to each receivers before they throw to someone twice? Nope. So what does the team do? They keep lobbing it to that receiver until the other team does something to stop him. Do those teams cry about their cornerback being lit up? Nope. They suck it up and either switch up their line-up and find someone else to cover him, double cover him, whatever it takes, or they lose. And sometimes, you just don't have anyone who can match up well, and you just have to take the loss. They can't go grab the ball and hide it and say "well, you can't find the ball so you can't throw it... haha!"

The card game I used to play had attack and def. If I attacked you, win or lose, your defense goes down. Eventually, if I keep plugging away, even if I'm 100 levels lower than you, I can beat you. Eventually. But, over time, your defense built back up on its own. And, you also have the option of using in game items to replenish your att/def at any given moment, potentially make me waste 20 attacks, getting just to that point where I might beat you, and then wham, door slammed shut in my face. In that game, my goal was the same. Build a deck that could withstand pretty much any major attack, and could win any attack that I initiated. What if Gree added something like that to the game? Make it so your Sentinel basically is a wall, but can defend him/herself by replenishing their defense. Then it really is a war, can you take down our best defense? If you can't, I'm sorry, you don't deserve to win. That's the breaks.

As far as making money, I'm not pro-gree making money. If I could play the game and open 100 chests a day for free, trust me, I would. When I mention the money making, or reasons why they might do something, because it increases their cash flow, it is because I'm thinking from the business perspective. I don't play the "customer is always right" card. I hate that BS. As noted many times in other threads, I run a bar. My main goal is to provide my guests and fun and inviting atmosphere where they can relax and enjoy some nice food and beverage offerings, at a reasonable price. In fewer words: suck money out of people's pockets. Not through shady dealings, but by normal business ways. Food, drinks, merchandise etc. So when it is clear Gree has a money grab, I understand what they are doing, and or why. They want to make money. As much of it and as fast as possible.

For example: If someone came up and said "I'm going to be a lifelong customer if you give me a burger for $1 every time I'm here" and someone else comes up and says "I want a burger, charge me normal price"... guess who I give my burger to? The guy who is going to pay full price. There is no guarantee the first guy holds up his end of the deal. You WANT to trust the guy and build that lifelong guest, but he could get bad service once and never come back. That is how business works. People want to change the game for the better. That is fine. I do too. I'm not saying other ideas are worthless, I'm just countering those points and saying "look at it from Gree's perspective. Would you make a change like this if it impacted YOUR sales?" Why? This is what they are looking at.

[PB_Buncil]

I still disagree with the "victory" bonus being the primary winning catalyst. Again, a high level player that creates his own guild for bonuses can likely still win against many low level guilds doing the same thing. A single player or handful shouldn't have the ability to win the top prizes for a guild war if you have a max level guild pumping out wins vs other max level guilds. Maybe this IS whining, but I'm pretty sure other top tier guilds don't want to share their big winnings with some random joe shmoe guild. I don't feel like we leveled the guilds and max out bonuses just for someone who won the "I got lucky with my war opponents and won my battles" lottery to be able to get top prizes. You want the winner to be someone who won a WAR. Maybe I'm totally delusional here. Anyone?

Me personally, what I want out of guild wars? I like the ability to farm whoever I want, over and over... with the battle log showing that I beat the snot out of them. You know, the name in lights thing. I also want it to show, that if I kept trying time after time, and failed, that you know what, I couldn't beat the other guy. Kudos to them. They deserve to know that they stopped me. For me a victory isn't trying to stop someone from killing me, its being able to stop them from killing me, and still be able to kill them. And I don't want to just outlast them, I want to beat them to a pulp with them having no way to touch me. Again, name in lights thing.

People are crying foul at the person being farmed, or being the person farmed, or the fact that a person can be farmed. If I'm being farmed, there shouldn't just be a magic reset, come find me again cause I changed my name and randomized the guild members list option. If you want to use that tactic, sure... but I feel I should have the right to farm you over and over, without having to suffer a "penalty" for doing so. If I'm the person getting farmed? I should bust my butt, farm more, level/max my armors, or pick a better lineup for next time. Also, as a slight tangent, you do realize, you are being fought against time after time constantly all day long in the arena and you aren't even aware of it right? It doesn't impact your game one bit in this instance. Do you swap armors in the middle of the day to throw off the invisible arena people who you have no idea are working you over? No. Guild wars just lets you see who is getting their butts kicked. What about when you are asleep and someone else in the guild declares war? You're potentially getting bent over with nothing you can do about it. And if you didn't declare war... another guild is likely passing you by while yours is standing idle, either farming points, or farming wins. Just saying.

Also, if war is like sports, which, many coaches say it is, and since its football season, here is an example of "war."

- If a team knows they have a favorable match-up between their receiver and the opponent's cornerback, do they say "you know what, we already threw to that guy twice, we need to spread the ball around."? Does the league penalize them for not passing to each receivers before they throw to someone twice? Nope. So what does the team do? They keep lobbing it to that receiver until the other team does something to stop him. Do those teams cry about their cornerback being lit up? Nope. They suck it up and either switch up their line-up and find someone else to cover him, double cover him, whatever it takes, or they lose. And sometimes, you just don't have anyone who can match up well, and you just have to take the loss. They can't go grab the ball and hide it and say "well, you can't find the ball so you can't throw it... haha!"

The card game I used to play had attack and def. If I attacked you, win or lose, your defense goes down. Eventually, if I keep plugging away, even if I'm 100 levels lower than you, I can beat you. Eventually. But, over time, your defense built back up on its own. And, you also have the option of using in game items to replenish your att/def at any given moment, potentially make me waste 20 attacks, getting just to that point where I might beat you, and then wham, door slammed shut in my face. In that game, my goal was the same. Build a deck that could withstand pretty much any major attack, and could win any attack that I initiated. What if Gree added something like that to the game? Make it so your Sentinel basically is a wall, but can defend him/herself by replenishing their defense. Then it really is a war, can you take down our best defense? If you can't, I'm sorry, you don't deserve to win. That's the breaks.

As far as making money, I'm not pro-gree making money. If I could play the game and open 100 chests a day for free, trust me, I would. When I mention the money making, or reasons why they might do something, because it increases their cash flow, it is because I'm thinking from the business perspective. I don't play the "customer is always right" card. I hate that BS. As noted many times in other threads, I run a bar. My main goal is to provide my guests and fun and inviting atmosphere where they can relax and enjoy some nice food and beverage offerings, at a reasonable price. In fewer words: suck money out of people's pockets. Not through shady dealings, but by normal business ways. Food, drinks, merchandise etc. So when it is clear Gree has a money grab, I understand what they are doing, and or why. They want to make money. As much of it and as fast as possible.

For example: If someone came up and said "I'm going to be a lifelong customer if you give me a burger for $1 every time I'm here" and someone else comes up and says "I want a burger, charge me normal price"... guess who I give my burger to? The guy who is going to pay full price. There is no guarantee the first guy holds up his end of the deal. You WANT to trust the guy and build that lifelong guest, but he could get bad service once and never come back. That is how business works. People want to change the game for the better. That is fine. I do too. I'm not saying other ideas are worthless, I'm just countering those points and saying "look at it from Gree's perspective. Would you make a change like this if it impacted YOUR sales?" Why? This is what they are looking at.

gee... you really gem eater......

boring... no wonder u lost.. running out gem?

[busteroaf]

gee... you really gem eater......

boring... no wonder u lost.. running out gem?

Huh? Was that English? We learned last night I don't read "words" good. Please try that again so it makes sense please so I can properly dissect your next post.

And my apologies if that sounds condescending. If English is not your first language, again, I apologize. But I can't be expected to make sense of your post if... it doesn't make sense.

[Miyabi]

Want to proof who will be the last guild standing #1 in next GW?

This time purely by tactic art of war and dedication and raw power. You dare?

Specailly you RR-- gem eater, dare with the challenge?

We are small but smart and elite force.
Put away your wallet for once, proof who will be the last guild standing.

:cool:

Stop dreaming... This game no tactics 1, money means power, and to get #1 means just buying n buying.
Or u can ask your parents for money buy gems and skip school lunches...

[Miyabi]

gee... you really gem eater......

boring... no wonder u lost.. running out gem?

You disgracing the PBs... Dont talk like a kid whining..

[Marco_]

As far as making money, I'm not pro-gree making money. If I could play the game and open 100 chests a day for free, trust me, I would. When I mention the money making, or reasons why they might do something, because it increases their cash flow, it is because I'm thinking from the business perspective. I don't play the "customer is always right" card. I hate that BS. As noted many times in other threads, I run a bar. My main goal is to provide my guests and fun and inviting atmosphere where they can relax and enjoy some nice food and beverage offerings, at a reasonable price. In fewer words: suck money out of people's pockets. Not through shady dealings, but by normal business ways. Food, drinks, merchandise etc. So when it is clear Gree has a money grab, I understand what they are doing, and or why. They want to make money. As much of it and as fast as possible.
Well, in my opinion, in Gree's bar on the menu there's fine print only readable with a magnifying glass reading "put $10 in the tipjar each visit and you're always guaranteed one of the best seats".
And it will then take people who didn't read the text a while to notice something odd going on.
A pay2win game will decieve players willing to spend at most a few dozen dollars/euros/other currency into thinking they could actually be number one one day and banks on the deception being good enough that those players also get their friends playing before they realize the absolute top is probably unreachable for them.
Or in the bar example: only the people buying $100+ diners are worth keeping as long term customers to them, not the people who come by for a beer now and then.


They want to make money. As much of it and as fast as possible.
Oh quiz show, the question belonging to that answer is "what did cause the worldwide economic crisis?.."

We need more family businesses, since they usually are more concerned with how to be still in business in 50 years and take care of their employees than how to cash in quick... </rant>

[Marco_]

So how do you handle a max level guild being paired against a low level guild with only a handful of players?
I'd say the matchmaking system failed spectacularly then.
It should probably matchmake based on a mix of guild level, players in the guild and active players at that moment (device fetched a refresh/update from the server in the last N minutes) .
Widening the criteria ever further the longer it can't find a match to make sure the few guilds at the very top don't wait indefinately for a match...

[-Solo-]

Yes, but then you can just take advantage of having a group of strong armored actives members with a low guild level and the matchmaking system would pit you against similar guild level guilds. You would just smash them. That sort of system only makes it harder for the top teams as they will have trouble making maximum points off each other, while you have low leveled guilds just racking up points on other low level guilds.

[Meepo]

Me personally, what I want out of guild wars? I like the ability to farm whoever I want, over and over... with the battle log showing that I beat the snot out of them. You know, the name in lights thing. I also want it to show, that if I kept trying time after time, and failed, that you know what, I couldn't beat the other guy. Kudos to them. They deserve to know that they stopped me. For me a victory isn't trying to stop someone from killing me, its being able to stop them from killing me, and still be able to kill them. And I don't want to just outlast them, I want to beat them to a pulp with them having no way to touch me. Again, name in lights thing.

People are crying foul at the person being farmed, or being the person farmed, or the fact that a person can be farmed. If I'm being farmed, there shouldn't just be a magic reset, come find me again cause I changed my name and randomized the guild members list option. If you want to use that tactic, sure... but I feel I should have the right to farm you over and over, without having to suffer a "penalty" for doing so. If I'm the person getting farmed? I should bust my butt, farm more, level/max my armors, or pick a better lineup for next time. Also, as a slight tangent, you do realize, you are being fought against time after time constantly all day long in the arena and you aren't even aware of it right? It doesn't impact your game one bit in this instance. Do you swap armors in the middle of the day to throw off the invisible arena people who you have no idea are working you over? No. Guild wars just lets you see who is getting their butts kicked. What about when you are asleep and someone else in the guild declares war? You're potentially getting bent over with nothing you can do about it. And if you didn't declare war... another guild is likely passing you by while yours is standing idle, either farming points, or farming wins. Just saying.

Also, if war is like sports, which, many coaches say it is, and since its football season, here is an example of "war."

- If a team knows they have a favorable match-up between their receiver and the opponent's cornerback, do they say "you know what, we already threw to that guy twice, we need to spread the ball around."? Does the league penalize them for not passing to each receivers before they throw to someone twice? Nope. So what does the team do? They keep lobbing it to that receiver until the other team does something to stop him. Do those teams cry about their cornerback being lit up? Nope. They suck it up and either switch up their line-up and find someone else to cover him, double cover him, whatever it takes, or they lose. And sometimes, you just don't have anyone who can match up well, and you just have to take the loss. They can't go grab the ball and hide it and say "well, you can't find the ball so you can't throw it... haha!"

The card game I used to play had attack and def. If I attacked you, win or lose, your defense goes down. Eventually, if I keep plugging away, even if I'm 100 levels lower than you, I can beat you. Eventually. But, over time, your defense built back up on its own. And, you also have the option of using in game items to replenish your att/def at any given moment, potentially make me waste 20 attacks, getting just to that point where I might beat you, and then wham, door slammed shut in my face. In that game, my goal was the same. Build a deck that could withstand pretty much any major attack, and could win any attack that I initiated. What if Gree added something like that to the game? Make it so your Sentinel basically is a wall, but can defend him/herself by replenishing their defense. Then it really is a war, can you take down our best defense? If you can't, I'm sorry, you don't deserve to win. That's the breaks.

I'm sorry, but a war that is fought by beating the snot out of your opponent really shouldn't be called a war at all. War is about managing your resources properly in order to achieve victory. In a real WAR (I'm not talking about a game of football), what does a side have to gain from beating the enemy into the ground, other than the mistaken feeling that their p3n0r has grown by a few inches? Nothing. Beating someone into the ground when you've already won is classed as brutality, not war, and should never be rewarded heavily in a game labelled as a war.

Lets say two kingdoms are at war with one another. One kingdom has superior forces compared to the other, forcing the other kingdom to surrender. Effectively, the war has been won and the winning kingdom is free to reap all the gold, land, women, slaves, etc. from the losing side. However, their leader is busteroaf, so he decides to burn all their land, slaughter all their livestock, kill all their citizens and "mark his territory" on their dead bodies. He gains nothing that he couldn't have gained from a simple victory, apart from wasted time and effort.

As for high level guilds deserving to be at the top, make it so that a guild that wins 100001-100000 earns more than a guild that wins 101-100. However winning 1000001-100 should yield the same reward as winning 101-100. Again, this is not a perfect idea, but it can be something to build upon. Maybe the matchmaking system needs a rethinking, but it can definitely be done.

I am not agreeing with what he is saying, you can spend your money however you choose to. However, it is bleedingly obvious what he is saying. If you can't piece together what he is saying, it is a testament to your own stupidity, not his. Please do not feign stupidity for the sake of being condescending.

[Marco_]

Yes, but then you can just take advantage of having a group of strong armored actives members with a low guild level and the matchmaking system would pit you against similar guild level guilds. You would just smash them. That sort of system only makes it harder for the top teams as they will have trouble making maximum points off each other, while you have low leveled guilds just racking up points on other low level guilds.
Well, there are probably always abuse options if the exact matchmaking algorithm is known, so you'll have to keep the specifics secret, but my impression from the forum was that for the first 2 iOS wars the opponent picked was kind of
rand(#guilds with enough people online) .
Just like in other games bronze league players don't get matched against diamond league, I just think "diamond" guilds shouldn't be matched against "bronze" guilds.

[Alitia]

Huh? Was that English? We learned last night I don't read "words" good. Please try that again so it makes sense please so I can properly dissect your next post.

And my apologies if that sounds condescending. If English is not your first language, again, I apologize. But I can't be expected to make sense of your post if... it doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense? Add in 'are a' after really and before gem in the line 'you really gem eater'. And simply add 'of' between 'out' and 'gem' in the line 'running out gem?'.

You know, in the English language, you only need to grasp key words to make sense of anything you read. 'Are a' and 'of' are not key words needed to make sense of a piece of writing. When you skim through texts, you don't read every word. Your brain focuses on keys words. So even though you're actually reading what this guy is saying, you're not making sense of it even though he's used the necessary words to make it more than understandable.

However, does his post make more sense now?

[iH8t2lose2]

I don't get why busteroaf and meepo write essays about it, I wont bother to go through and read all of that and Im sure most people wont.

[Meepo]

I don't get why busteroaf and meepo write essays about it, I wont bother to go through and read all of that and Im sure most people wont.

In short, I'm right and he's wrong :p war should be about victory, not beating people to a pulp.

[Alitia]

I don't get why busteroaf and meepo write essays about it, I wont bother to go through and read all of that and Im sure most people wont.

Because they can. They will read each others essays if no one will. They want to make a point. Both ends are stubborn. It doesn't whether you or anyone else reads them. Because we all know these useless exchange of essays are between them so we don't need to get why. Just enjoy the entertainment. It's ridiculously hilarious in my opinion.

[busteroaf]

I'm sorry, but a war that is fought by beating the snot out of your opponent really shouldn't be called a war at all. War is about managing your resources properly in order to achieve victory. In a real WAR (I'm not talking about a game of football), what does a side have to gain from beating the enemy into the ground, other than the mistaken feeling that their p3n0r has grown by a few inches? Nothing. Beating someone into the ground when you've already won is classed as brutality, not war, and should never be rewarded heavily in a game labelled as a war.

Lets say two kingdoms are at war with one another. One kingdom has superior forces compared to the other, forcing the other kingdom to surrender. Effectively, the war has been won and the winning kingdom is free to reap all the gold, land, women, slaves, etc. from the losing side. However, their leader is busteroaf, so he decides to burn all their land, slaughter all their livestock, kill all their citizens and "mark his territory" on their dead bodies. He gains nothing that he couldn't have gained from a simple victory, apart from wasted time and effort.

You can't glean anything from the other guilds each time you win in these wars, only the final result. Its not like we get a giant treasure chest of ladies, livestock, slaves etc every victory, with the pot decreasing after a slaughtering, so that idea doesn't fully apply here. Also, if that first kingdom just got burned to the ground and we gained nothing from, is that not a demoralization tactic to use against other kingdoms? "Hey, we can let you live and blah blah, but we decided just to kill everyone! Hi new neighbor!" I'm pretty sure that sends a message to others. But here comes Leader Meepo wanting everyone to hold hands and sing songs while looking at rainbows and butterflys, patching up each others battle wounds with band-aids and being friends. War doesn't work like that either. It COULD, if everyone agree'd to just go for the "just enough to win" win... but you will always have the people, apparently like me, who want to just go ham on someone and say "look at me, I DESTROYED you." Also, you need someone like me to be the bad guy.



As for high level guilds deserving to be at the top, make it so that a guild that wins 100001-100000 earns more than a guild that wins 101-100. However winning 1000001-100 should yield the same reward as winning 101-100. Again, this is not a perfect idea, but it can be something to build upon. Maybe the matchmaking system needs a rethinking, but it can definitely be done.

Okay. So take the bad matchup between a large guild and a small guild: You'd rather the large guild only win by enough to "win" and not beat the opponent. But another guild wins by 100001-100... thus they both have victories right? But in your eyes, the 100001-100 victory is the same as 101-100. So if I do enough to ENSURE a victory, I should be penalized for it? That makes no sense. You want me to wait until the last minute (with lag and freeze ups and all) to make sure I do JUST ENOUGH to barely beat the other team, since again, a big win is just the same as a small win to you. Sorry, you'll have to do something else to convince me your system works. The pairings still throw it off. Also, if you're not in one of those giant battles where you win 100001-100000, you're already at a disadvantage. And again, if I bust my butt and spend 100 gems to beat someone in a close battle while someone else is cruising by winning without ever having to gem, you better believe I want a better reward than them.


I am not agreeing with what he is saying, you can spend your money however you choose to. However, it is bleedingly obvious what he is saying. If you can't piece together what he is saying, it is a testament to your own stupidity, not his. Please do not feign stupidity for the sake of being condescending.

You missed the "I don't read 'words' good part... that was something from the other day. And yes, I did understand what he/she was saying. Go back and read all of PB_Buncil's posts. They all have that "what?" inducing effect. Sorry I'm the only one who made a comment about it. Oh wait, I wasn't.

[Meepo]

-I'm not talking about rainbows and butterflies, I'm talking about not wasting any effort fighting further when victory is already ensured. I'm saying that if you win, all the rewards are free for you to take. I am not patching up anyone's wounds, or holding anyone's hand. I am ensuring that my strikes against the opponent are all effective in order to achieve the desired result with minimum effort. Again, the numbers I suggested aren't perfect, but consider a large guild, a medium guild and a small guild. The large and medium guild both beat the small 101-100, to ensure that no effort is wasted. That puts them both ahead of the small guild. However, the large guild beats the small guild 1001-1000 putting them ahead of the medium guild. In other words, the large guild will be on top, medium in the middle and small at the bottom. If wars last long enough, it's highly unlikely for a small guild to luck out and claim first place.

[Marco_]

And again, if I bust my butt and spend 100 gems to beat someone in a close battle while someone else is cruising by winning without ever having to gem, you better believe I want a better reward than them.
why should someone relying on luck instead of gems deserve a lower reward? Next thing you're going to suggest Gree add a armor shop where people can directly buy specific armors to make the game more buy gems = better rewards... ;)
At times I wonder if everybody on the forum is still actually having fun playing the game...

[Sir William]

Is no one willing to address the biggest logical fallacy being presented here?

Why should those of us with better armors feel ba about farming guilds/players with lower tiered armors?

The whole point of guild wars is to put one guild against the other. Everyone knows there is seemingly no rational match-up system based on guild size/level/elemental bonuses/etc..

Everyone who is still using big four or worse knows they're not seriously competing for top 10 or even top 50 prizes. They understand they're aiming a lot lower.

But they're still choosing to be in a guild and partake in guild wars despite all of these roadblocks.

[Meepo]

The top guilds will still be ahead of lower guilds because of better armors, because they will BEAT the lower guilds. However, the winner among the top guilds, ie. who comes first instead of second, should be who spends resources better. The game should reward HAVING resources, which places the top gemspending guilds on top, but also reward EFFECTIVE USE of resources, placing the high level guild that uses their energy more efficiently at the number 1 spot, as opposed to the number 2-10 spots. If gemspending alone were the only factor determining who is on top, it merely becomes a battle of attrition to see who runs out of money to spend on gems first.

In other words, BORING!

[busteroaf]

why should someone relying on luck instead of gems deserve a lower reward? Next thing you're going to suggest Gree add a armor shop where people can directly buy specific armors to make the game more buy gems = better rewards... ;)
At times I wonder if everybody on the forum is still actually having fun playing the game...

The point of the spending gems was that it required more effort. And please, tell me that if you spend gems, and someone beats you by "luck" that you don't feel cheated or that you didn't waste money in some way. For those ready to jump in on the counterpoint, yes, probably the same way that people feel cheated when people lose to those who spends gems. It works both ways. As stated before, anytime there is a "pay-to-whatever" option, there will always be people on both sides of the fence. Continue reading below.


-I'm not talking about rainbows and butterflies, I'm talking about not wasting any effort fighting further when victory is already ensured. I'm saying that if you win, all the rewards are free for you to take. I am not patching up anyone's wounds, or holding anyone's hand. I am ensuring that my strikes against the opponent are all effective in order to achieve the desired result with minimum effort. Again, the numbers I suggested aren't perfect, but consider a large guild, a medium guild and a small guild. The large and medium guild both beat the small 101-100, to ensure that no effort is wasted. That puts them both ahead of the small guild. However, the large guild beats the small guild 1001-1000 putting them ahead of the medium guild. In other words, the large guild will be on top, medium in the middle and small at the bottom. If wars last long enough, it's highly unlikely for a small guild to luck out and claim first place.

The words I've made bold in your quote speak volumes more than anything else to me. You want the best rewards for minimal effort. Well to that end, I want the better-est (yes, I know) rewards for putting in more effort. If I win and you win... we've both won. If I put in more effort to win a big win, why should I not get rewarded as such? Also, I understand your example. It makes sense, but not everyone wants to put in minimal effort. As long as there is SOME way to get extra points beyond the normal victory points, there will be someone, a group, or guild who does just that, goes above and beyond, you know, that icky Buster style, I want to leave no trace of my opponents, to get that extra bit of victory points. Also, a win of 101-100 hardly seems to have the "when victory is already ensured" look to it. 101-100 seems more like a battle to the end. 100001-100 seems more "ensured" to me.

Back to your victories hold more weight idea... if you go on victories alone, you need some sort of system in place where you can say "you both won with 40 wins, but Guild Y had _____ while Guild Z only had _____, therefore, Guild Y is the overall winner." I doubt everyone will be happy with saying "yay, we tied with 10 other guilds for first. Lets all celebrate." Am I wrong in wanting an outright winner? Again this goes back to bonus points or some sort of factor that separates guilds after a win. In one of your original posts, you said the guild that wins 100001-100 should get the same points/win for the guild that wins 101-100. If one person can get 101 points, then what is the point/fun in having 40 people playing? Why should the whole guild be penalized for wanting to get 101 points themselves? These are honest questions I'm posing to you and your system.

Again, I want to clarify, I don't disagree with your idea. It does have merit, it just needs to be fleshed out. But getting it to work, and changing the way people play these wars will be the difficult task. Also, I'm just showing that there will always be others who don't fit into the way YOU think things should be done, just like you don't like my (and other people's) idea of bashing someone over and over, or Eun's ideas for that matter.

[busteroaf]

The top guilds will still be ahead of lower guilds because of better armors, because they will BEAT the lower guilds. However, the winner among the top guilds, ie. who comes first instead of second, should be who spends resources better. The game should reward HAVING resources, which places the top gemspending guilds on top, but also reward EFFECTIVE USE of resources, placing the high level guild that uses their energy more efficiently at the number 1 spot, as opposed to the number 2-10 spots. If gemspending alone were the only factor determining who is on top, it merely becomes a battle of attrition to see who runs out of money to spend on gems first.

In other words, BORING!

Your use of the word EFFECTIVE has a giant gaping hole. What exactly is effective? Effective for me is using scouts and communication programs to set up battles and coordinate attacks. Effective for another guild would be having someone who doesn't need to spend any energy, but instead changes their name every 30 seconds, thus resetting the line-ups. The same GM just rotates armors every minute, instead of actually fighting. Both are effective tactics, but on totally different ends of the spectrum. Your view of effective may differ from mine. Which one of us is being more effective?

[Meepo]

Well, the point I'm trying to make is that you spending more already gives a HUGE advantage, but shouldn't be absolutely guaranteed that you win. The one who spends 350 gems on maxing his training fields will end up ahead of the one who spends 1000 gems on DPCs (in most cases). That's the thing I mean when I say minimum effort/resources and this shouldn't be any different in guild wars.

I know it needs to be fleshed out, but GREE pretty much uses iOS as a test server. How could it possibly get worse than the first war, where only a quarter of people could participate.

[Sir William]

Well then doesnt your idea of effective gem spending not reinforce the idea of farming a weaker member in the first place?

Why spend 15 gems for 4 energy to hope to win all 4? Why not be efficient and find someone you KNOW you can beat four times.

Sure you may lose the first one for lack of foresight on elemental advantages, and maye one or two infrequently due to misses and line up change, but if your argument is that the top awards should rest with those who are the most efficient with their gems, then farming weaker players is extremely efficient.

[Sir William]

Moreover, if you have a guild like untouchables, RR or rparty that are not only spending a lot of gems but doing so wisely and efficiently then what issue is it you have?

Should, by your own admissions, the top prizes not be ours fair and square?

[Meepo]

Your use of the word EFFECTIVE has a giant gaping hole. What exactly is effective? Effective for me is using scouts and communication programs to set up battles and coordinate attacks. Effective for another guild would be having someone who doesn't need to spend any energy, but instead changes their name every 30 seconds, thus resetting the line-ups. The same GM just rotates armors every minute, instead of actually fighting. Both are effective tactics, but on totally different ends of the spectrum. Your view of effective may differ from mine. Which one of us is being more effective?

Effective for me means using scouts, communication, name changes, armor changes, and managing your energy efficiently in order to get as high on the ladder as you possibly can at the end of the day. A medium level guild can scout out an enemy guild and say "these guys are way too strong for us, we should conserve energy for next battle", whereas a strong guild would manage energy so that they win as many battles as they can, as fast as possible.

[Meepo]

Well then doesnt your idea of effective gem spending not reinforce the idea of farming a weaker member in the first place?

Why spend 15 gems for 4 energy to hope to win all 4? Why not be efficient and find someone you KNOW you can beat four times.

Sure you may lose the first one for lack of foresight on elemental advantages, and maye one or two infrequently due to misses and line up change, but if your argument is that the top awards should rest with those who are the most efficient with their gems, then farming weaker players is extremely efficient.

Maybe you don't have to beat them four times to ensure victory, why not just beat them three times to ensure the win, and giving yourself the best possible position for next battle as well.

Yes a top guild like RR who not only spends a lot of gems, but spends them effectively deserves to win, and will win. However if RR doesn't spend energy effectively and Untouchables does, then Untouchables should win.

I'm sorry if I seemed totally against beating a single person into the ground as it is a valid strat. However, the victory system encourages saving energy for next battle rather than expending all resources on a single battle to go 1000000000-100 against another guild.

[Alitia]

Your use of the word EFFECTIVE has a giant gaping hole. What exactly is effective? Effective for me is using scouts and communication programs to set up battles and coordinate attacks. Effective for another guild would be having someone who doesn't need to spend any energy, but instead changes their name every 30 seconds, thus resetting the line-ups. The same GM just rotates armors every minute, instead of actually fighting. Both are effective tactics, but on totally different ends of the spectrum. Your view of effective may differ from mine. Which one of us is being more effective?

Why are you asking silly questions like 'Which one of us is being more effective?'? No matter what your perspectives of effectiveness are, there are external factors affecting your effectiveness. Results will show your effectiveness and which view is more effective, but with every take using an effective tactic regardless of what it actually is, there will be factors that affect your effectiveness. There won't be a tactic that is more effective than another unless you can make predictions that will give you the upper hand, and reduce the number of external factors.Since you can't predict the way the system does these line ups, etc., you'd rather take the easy way out and have GREE prevent such things that inconvenient you and your team's efficiency.

Anyway the results won't always stay consistent. Well that's what I believe. There's just more than just 1 or 2 factors affecting your effective tactics that are not within your control. If you could or can control those factors then maybe you can prove which who is being more effective.

And I'd just like to say, this forum's title and its argument is not necessary at all. It is not necessary to make these changes. You people are just annoyed you can't farm and beat the pulp out of other members guild because of these things you find an inconvenience to your way of battling. Like people don't want to beat your members into a pulp and get the best rewards they possibly can while you amongst all those gem spender guilds just spend your money to have a greater chance of beating everyone who can't to the ground. Imagine how those people feel and your buddy wants these changes to be implemented, leaving weaker guilds and their members with even a smaller chance to achieve a good rank and good rewards. If these guilds have a fighting chance, you wouldn't want to give it to them when you're already one of the top guilds in the entire game.

[Eunuchorn]

The roster moving around is no reason to lock names entirely. Should just order it the same way all the time regardless of names.

I've said this multiple times already.

[Miyabi]

Maybe you don't have to beat them four times to ensure victory, why not just beat them three times to ensure the win, and giving yourself the best possible position for next battle as well.

Yes a top guild like RR who not only spends a lot of gems, but spends them effectively deserves to win, and will win. However if RR doesn't spend energy effectively and Untouchables does, then Untouchables should win.

I'm sorry if I seemed totally against beating a single person into the ground as it is a valid strat. However, the victory system encourages saving energy for next battle rather tuhan expending all resources on a single battle to go 1000000000-100 against another guild.

I used to think like u, play smart n conserve energies.
But face the truth in gree guild wars, u dont spend, u hardly get in top10, u think almost half the guild can wait for the next battle in about 1.5hrs? And just to use 4-6 battles for the next match?
By the time u spend waiting and see the leader boards u can already see the points jumping up in top10 and ur guild being push down.
Playing smart to scout, counter elements, change names, conserve energies is yes to some point, but face the fact is that lots of players are gemming in top10, bottomline this game is merely pay n buy to win, u cant depend on tactics n conserve energies to win high.
Once u are in top5 u can see that every hour counts, and cant afford to wait to stay in high.

[Meepo]

I've said this multiple times already.

My apologies, it just seemed very drastic when you went IMMEDIATE NECESSARY GUILD WAR CHANGES: A. lock names

[Alitia]

Well then doesnt your idea of effective gem spending not reinforce the idea of farming a weaker member in the first place?

Why spend 15 gems for 4 energy to hope to win all 4? Why not be efficient and find someone you KNOW you can beat four times.

Sure you may lose the first one for lack of foresight on elemental advantages, and maye one or two infrequently due to misses and line up change, but if your argument is that the top awards should rest with those who are the most efficient with their gems, then farming weaker players is extremely efficient.

Farming weaker players extremely efficient. That is fine but wanting to prevent these weaker players the ability to defend themselves is just greedy. Sine RR is one of the top guilds in knd, why does it bother your team so much that name changes should not be allowed during a guild war? It is probably the only way weak guilds can defend themselves and stop their opposition from obtaining the maximum points they can in that 1 hour. Just because it frustrates your team and interrupts their flow of efficiency, so it has to be prevented? I think not. Your team chooses not to do that, because you don't need to do you? RR is a strong guild that's has been at the top for how long? RR has attained many great rewards only others could only hope for. And if you a relatively strong guild uses this tactic then, deal with it. There are a lot more weaker guilds than stronger ones in the game so think of it as giving the weaker guilds a fighting chance.

The point I'm saying is that, eun shouldn't find it necessary at all to make these changes.

[Alitia]

My apologies, it just seemed very drastic when you went IMMEDIATE NECESSARY GUILD WAR CHANGES: A. lock names

I second that. My apologies. Buster is just seems quite aggravated so I reacted. So just lock the list line up. I'm ok with that.

[busteroaf]

Maybe you don't have to beat them four times to ensure victory, why not just beat them three times to ensure the win, and giving yourself the best possible position for next battle as well.

Yes a top guild like RR who not only spends a lot of gems, but spends them effectively deserves to win, and will win. However if RR doesn't spend energy effectively and Untouchables does, then Untouchables should win.

I'm sorry if I seemed totally against beating a single person into the ground as it is a valid strat. However, the victory system encourages saving energy for next battle rather than expending all resources on a single battle to go 1000000000-100 against another guild.

Beat them three times instead of four? That is a great idea, but until the timer reaches 00:00, I'm going to do what I can to ensure victory. If that means beating you six times, I'm going to do it. I don't know how many people will log in at the last minute and outscore me, or how many resources they have left. So my only beating someone 3 times, might not have been enough. There is no "ensured" victory here. That is the problem. There is no mercy rule. Especially not in war, last time I checked. This isn't T-ball where everyone comes out a winner or gets a participation medal.

And yes, if RR doesn't spend their gems effectively and Untouchables does, you know what, they probably will win, and they'll deserve it. I don't disagree with that statement. The next one however, as I've said before, I do.

There is no guarantee that the next battle will be any easier or harder. Also, the way you word it, you are talking limited resources, as if you HAVE to conserve them. That means throwing gem spending out the door. Real wars have limited resources as well... but you also call for reinforcements, or reload your gun when at all possible too, thus boosting your previously limited resources. (gem spending)

Clearly from this and previous statements, you're the type who will pack it up and go home after you've scouted and say "nope, not worth it." Good for you. I want the person on my team that is going to say "hey, its isn't over until the fat lady sings. Lets find a way to win."

[Eunuchorn]

Well, I did read all those stupidly large paragraphs & I'm left with one thought.

No comment.

[PB_Buncil]

Meepo is right.

Busteroaf ... go to bathroom and keep doing it.

Tacoma, will eat you in next GW. I ll make sure i plump you 100x.

[Eunuchorn]

I second that. My apologies. Buster is just seems quite aggravated so I reacted. So just lock the list line up. I'm ok with that.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?63537-Preemptive-Strike!-How-to-fix-Guild-Wars-amp-Arena!&p=906522#post906522

You all must have missed this thread I started a month ago

[Alitia]

Well, I did read all those stupidly large paragraphs & I'm left with one thought.

No comment.

Haha it's funny isn't it? Well it is to me. It's nice I could join in haha. Hardcore stress reliever haha!

[Meepo]

Beat them three times instead of four? That is a great idea, but until the timer reaches 00:00, I'm going to do what I can to ensure victory. If that means beating you six times, I'm going to do it. I don't know how many people will log in at the last minute and outscore me, or how many resources they have left. So my only beating someone 3 times, might not have been enough. There is no "ensured" victory here. That is the problem. There is no mercy rule. Especially not in war, last time I checked. This isn't T-ball where everyone comes out a winner or gets a participation medal.

And yes, if RR doesn't spend their gems effectively and Untouchables does, you know what, they probably will win, and they'll deserve it. I don't disagree with that statement. The next one however, as I've said before, I do.

There is no guarantee that the next battle will be any easier or harder. Also, the way you word it, you are talking limited resources, as if you HAVE to conserve them. That means throwing gem spending out the door. Real wars have limited resources as well... but you also call for reinforcements, or reload your gun when at all possible too, thus boosting your previously limited resources. (gem spending)

Clearly from this and previous statements, you're the type who will pack it up and go home after you've scouted and say "nope, not worth it." Good for you. I want the person on my team that is going to say "hey, its isn't over until the fat lady sings. Lets find a way to win."

Ok, in a fairly even battle, go beat them four times. However, in a completely one-sided battle, why would you need to beat them four times to ensure victory? Just save energy for next battle.

Miyabi, I'm not suggesting that it won't be pay-to-win. For example a person who spends 1 million gems on DPCs will be ahead of a person who spends 350 on TFs anyway. But for guilds with similar gemming capabilities, the factor that differentiates them should be efficiency rather than who can spend an extra 15 gems.

[Eunuchorn]

Haha it's funny isn't it? Well it is to me. It's nice I could join in haha. Hardcore stress reliever haha!

Stress reliever? Not so much. Reading people's comments & ideas just reinforces my belief that the human race is retarded & needs to be eradicated asap.

[busteroaf]

Farming weaker players extremely efficient. That is fine but wanting to prevent these weaker players the ability to defend themselves is just greedy. Sine RR is one of the top guilds in knd, why does it bother your team so much that name changes should not be allowed during a guild war? It is probably the only way weak guilds can defend themselves and stop their opposition from obtaining the maximum points they can in that 1 hour. Just because it frustrates your team and interrupts their flow of efficiency, so it has to be prevented? I think not. Your team chooses not to do that, because you don't need to do you? RR is a strong guild that's has been at the top for how long? RR has attained many great rewards only others could only hope for. And if you a relatively strong guild uses this tactic then, deal with it. There are a lot more weaker guilds than stronger ones in the game so think of it as giving the weaker guilds a fighting chance.

The point I'm saying is that, eun shouldn't find it necessary at all to make these changes.

There has only been 2 wars. And while we won the first, and came in second in this last one, I really don't know if people consider them full/true wars. Being filled with so many bugs, and then the second only being 4 hours, isn't a true test. So really, we haven't attained many great things. Currently, we have Cloudrange+, to other guild's Cloudrange, from the first war. All other rewards can be found in chests, or bought. The second, being all fusion stones and fusion boost armors... not any HUGE reward. So really, we haven't gotten much of an advantage from our wins, if any, if that is what you're saying. Our main advantage, much like many other guilds, is simply the caliber of players we have that make up the guild. Much like Centurions and PB and Untouchables and the like, I feel that we have the best players in our guilds. That is our main resource and advantage.

[Eunuchorn]

Ok, in a fairly even battle, go beat them four times. However, in a completely one-sided battle, why would you need to beat them four times to ensure victory? Just save energy for next battle.

Miyabi, I'm not suggesting that it won't be pay-to-win. For example a person who spends 1 million gems on DPCs will be ahead of a person who spends 350 on TFs anyway. But for guilds with similar gemming capabilities, the factor that differentiates them should be efficiency rather than who can spend an extra 15 gems.

Um, no? How do you define efficiency if two guilds are even & have same gemming capabilities? Gemming more than the other guy.

The only way this idea you have spent far too much time elaborating on would only work if gems aren't allowed during war WHATSOEVER. I fully support this, but good luck?

Oh wait that's right, Gree business models don't matter, just that the player have a good time & everything is fair between the players...

How's your day off going, by the way? Sucks you only get one day off. I remember hating 8th grade.

[busteroaf]

Ok, in a fairly even battle, go beat them four times. However, in a completely one-sided battle, why would you need to beat them four times to ensure victory? Just save energy for next battle.


Again... you miss the idea. There is no "ensured" victory until the clock has 00:00 on it and "Victory" pops up on the screen. You don't know how many people they have fighting, or possibly "waiting" until the last minute to plunk down some energy because the other guild got complacent and eased up when they thought the win was in the books. Or, when do you say "this is a guaranteed win"? When you're up 1000 points? 2000? 20k? The point is, you never know.

Did you see the Texas football team that was down by three or something with a second left in the game? Did they pack it up? No, they ran a little flea flicker off of the kickoff and came back to win. link to the story here (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1759121-texas-high-school-football-team-scores-a-game-winning-touchdown-off-a-squib-kick)

[Meepo]

Um, no? How do you define efficiency if two guilds are even & have same gemming capabilities? Gemming more than the other guy.

The only way this idea you have spent far too much time elaborating on would only work if gems aren't allowed during war WHATSOEVER. I fully support this, but good luck?

Oh wait that's right, Gree business models don't matter, just that the player have a good time & everything is fair between the players...

How's your day off going, by the way? Sucks you only get one day off. I remember hating 8th grade.

No,no,no. You're missing what I mean. Imagine there's two high level guilds, both in combat with weak guilds. One guild goes all out, spending all their energy to win by a huge margin, while the other does what they need to in order to win, saving their energy for next battle. In the next battle, both these high level guilds face off against each other. The guild that should end up with more points in the end should be the one who recognises that they might need their energy in a future battle in order to beat a guild of equal strength, not the one who mindlessly expends all energy in the previous battle.

This is an advantage that was earned from decision making. However, it can be completely reversed if the other guild spends gems to get their energy back to full. This makes the winning condition a combination of resource management, and gem spending power.

Oh, and I don't get a day off... Why do you get a day off?

[Meepo]

Buster: But what if your 40-man guild go up against a 2-man guild. There's a point, within reason, where you can go: Guys, we won this one for sure, lets prepare our resources for next battle. I'm not talking about football, where a team only plays one game at once. I am talking about guild wars, where battles can happen again and again. Preparing for the next battle should hold a similar importance to winning the current battle.

[Miyabi]

Buster: But what if your 40-man guild go up against a 2-man guild. There's a point, within reason, where you can go: Guys, we won this one for sure, lets prepare our resources for next battle. I'm not talking about football, where a team only plays one game at once. I am talking about guild wars, where battles can happen again and again. Preparing for the next battle should hold a similar importance to winning the current battle.

Like i said this game if u are in top guilds, even if facing 2 man guilds, thats the time ppl will spend more to regen energy, you dont wait and say we got this win, lets wait 1hr+ for the next battle.
If doing and think like this, your guild will never get a place up high.

[busteroaf]

Buster: But what if your 40-man guild go up against a 2-man guild. There's a point, within reason, where you can go: Guys, we won this one for sure, lets prepare our resources for next battle. I'm not talking about football, where a team only plays one game at once. I am talking about guild wars, where battles can happen again and again. Preparing for the next battle should hold a similar importance to winning the current battle.

See you keep talking like there are finite resources available, and you need to "ready up" for the next battle. Also, if you aren't aware, you could be matched up against multiple easy or weak guilds back to back. Saving up resources after a point, is actually wasting them. If guilds don't use their energy for something, the guilds that are currently in battles with larger guilds, and using said resources, are flying by you on the leaderboard. If I only use 1 energy, or 25, whatever you consider it... then yes, I could start with 3/75 next time. But, its not like I start with my energy PLUS the 3/75 that I didn't use the last time. You can't stock up extra energy for the next battle. Once it is maxed out, its maxed out. Use it or lose it.

[Thatzme]

All these arguments are going round and round - Meepo has strong ideals abt how the wars should be (league system of chalking victories instead of piling up warpoints), whereas the rest are just trying to convince him that as much as his ideas are nice, it's never gonna happen becos of the way Gree runs all its guild wars and all its games. Is it good to dream? Ofc it is, but one has to wake up at some point and smell the air and find that it's not that fresh after all.

Sure forum is for sharing of ideas on how to improve the game - at some point we need to move from ideals to pragmatism.

[Eunuchorn]

Like i said this game if u are in top guilds, even if facing 2 man guilds, thats the time ppl will spend more to regen energy, you dont wait and say we got this win, lets wait 1hr+ for the next battle.
If doing and think like this, your guild will never get a place up high.

Miyabi is one of my new favorite people! & that's saying a lot considering I hate almost everyone.

[Ragmondino]

All these arguments are going round and round - Meepo has strong ideals abt how the wars should be (league system of chalking victories instead of piling up warpoints), whereas the rest are just trying to convince him that as much as his ideas are nice, it's never gonna happen becos of the way Gree runs all its guild wars and all its games. Is it good to dream? Ofc it is, but one has to wake up at some point and smell the air and find that it's not that fresh after all.

Sure forum is for sharing of ideas on how to improve the game - at some point we need to move from ideals to pragmatism.

Interestingly KA, and now mw have bigger prizes available for 50 wins and consequetive wins than for finishing with the most points. It'll be here soon so work on a strategy for wins over points totals.

[Thatzme]

Interestingly KA, and now mw have bigger prizes available for 50 wins and consequetive wins than for finishing with the most points. It'll be here soon so work on a strategy for wins over points totals.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but that's a separate prize, with the main rewards still going to the top points earners right? So strategy of farming pts consistently every battle still stands then, just more prize option for those who spend less gems. Interesting though.

[Meepo]

See you keep talking like there are finite resources available, and you need to "ready up" for the next battle. Also, if you aren't aware, you could be matched up against multiple easy or weak guilds back to back. Saving up resources after a point, is actually wasting them. If guilds don't use their energy for something, the guilds that are currently in battles with larger guilds, and using said resources, are flying by you on the leaderboard. If I only use 1 energy, or 25, whatever you consider it... then yes, I could start with 3/75 next time. But, its not like I start with my energy PLUS the 3/75 that I didn't use the last time. You can't stock up extra energy for the next battle. Once it is maxed out, its maxed out. Use it or lose it.

Yes, when you get to a certain point, it is a waste. However, up to a certain point, it is very useful if the victory system were to be implemented (I am aware that it probably won't be, I'm just considering the implications if it were to be introduced). If you start with 4 energy, you can potentially battle 6 times in a 1-hour battle, because war energy regenerates 1/25mins or something. However, if you battle 6 times you are left with no energy for next battle. Instead, you can battle three times, then with 10 minutes left on the clock, when you have 3 energy, you can make the decision whether to spend that 3 energy or to save for the next battle, depending on how comfortable your lead is.

Miyabi, I understand that when you reach a certain point of gems spent, it will depend on who spends more gems. However, the overwhelming majority of KnD players do not have infinite money to spend on gems, so they cannot just continuously refill their energy bar. I believe those with a limited supply of energy should benefit from saving for next battle, because their energy bar does not magically refill like yours does.

[Meepo]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but that's a separate prize, with the main rewards still going to the top points earners right? So strategy of farming pts consistently every battle still stands then, just more prize option for those who spend less gems. Interesting though.

YES! farming pts consistently each battle is a strat for the top guilds, who can afford to refill their energy repeatedly. For those who can't, the thing that differentiates them from similar spending guilds should be how well they use that energy.

[Marco_]

Again... you miss the idea. There is no "ensured" victory until the clock has 00:00 on it and "Victory" pops up on the screen. You don't know how many people they have fighting, or possibly "waiting" until the last minute to plunk down some energy because the other guild got complacent and eased up when they thought the win was in the books. Or, when do you say "this is a guaranteed win"? When you're up 1000 points? 2000? 20k? The point is, you never know.

Did you see the Texas football team that was down by three or something with a second left in the game? Did they pack it up? No, they ran a little flea flicker off of the kickoff and came back to win. link to the story here (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1759121-texas-high-school-football-team-scores-a-game-winning-touchdown-off-a-squib-kick)
If you want to use American Football analogies, then what I've learned from this topic is that guild wars isn't about scoring touchdowns, but trying to tackle the same person as hard as possible over and over again until they can carry him off the field on a stretcher at the end of the match.
An average onlooker would then probably question: "is that really how the game is supposed to be played?"
To me that sounds more like a good original concept that got hit by a freight train and ended up all mangled.
And from what I understand from you guys, Gree made a trainwreck in one of their games, liked the trainwreck and has been copying the trainwreck into all of their games?
(Well, looking on the bright side, it's a smaller trainwreck than tap4fun's Galaxy Empire; that one's current battle system is a "chemical railcars exploding in a ball of flame" trainwreck...)

[Alitia]

How's your day off going, by the way? Sucks you only get one day off. I remember hating 8th grade.

You are you kidding me? Really? You're going to assume and pretend someone is in the 8th grade! You attack people's life? It's fine to say something about their language abilities because you can always question the things people say but to assume someone is a child? Are you that much of a shameless person? Since you're going to say something about people's days and life then how about you take that ignorant snobbish brain of yours and questions how far mans should be eradicated from the face of this earth. For me, I had an enjoyable but frustrating time replying to posts on here. I am more than happy to make my point but I don't go saying things about people's lives. You clearly don't cherish life as much as me or anyone who actually does. Yes, we humans are terrible at times but if these comments you've been reading really supports your belief that humans need to eradicated ASAP, why don't you take charge and do it then? Go and eradicate the human species then.

You know what, you and your gems spending friends spend plenty of your or your parents hard earned money on this game for what purpose? To be the best guild? To boost your own egos? Tell your friends what you've achieved in this game with your money? Oh wow. Amazing.

The things you people are saying are from your mighty position as one the top guilds. You're not thinking from an objective perspective or even from the lower ends perspective. You just think you're right and not considering the other factors.

[Alitia]

There has only been 2 wars. And while we won the first, and came in second in this last one, I really don't know if people consider them full/true wars. Being filled with so many bugs, and then the second only being 4 hours, isn't a true test. So really, we haven't attained many great things. Currently, we have Cloudrange+, to other guild's Cloudrange, from the first war. All other rewards can be found in chests, or bought. The second, being all fusion stones and fusion boost armors... not any HUGE reward. So really, we haven't gotten much of an advantage from our wins, if any, if that is what you're saying. Our main advantage, much like many other guilds, is simply the caliber of players we have that make up the guild. Much like Centurions and PB and Untouchables and the like, I feel that we have the best players in our guilds. That is our main resource and advantage.

Oh please. I don't care about your members. I don't care about your advantages. Bla blah blah! I'm saying you're already one of the top guilds so why complain about the name changing and the list line up? It annoys you that's why you're saying it. ALL OF WHAT YOU PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT THESE CHANGES IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE IT DISRUPTS YOU EFFICIENCY. OMG. UNDERSTAND?!

[Meepo]

Exactly, this thread has become a place where spoilt little kids with rich parents try to make the game better for only themselves, rather than the general KnD population. My suggestion would benefit the casual players, and the low/ average spenders by making the game have a better strategy than bashing one person until you're out of energy. If you guys never run out of energy, then it does not affect you posh kids in the slightest because you will still remain on top. Stop talking as if you are the only players in the game.

[Alitia]

Meepo is right.

Busteroaf ... go to bathroom and keep doing it.

Tacoma, will eat you in next GW. I ll make sure i plump you 100x.


http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?63537-Preemptive-Strike!-How-to-fix-Guild-Wars-amp-Arena!&p=906522#post906522

You all must have missed this thread I started a month ago

They don't do that for the arena or epic boss. Stop being a baby and just deal with it. I don't care when you started this thread, it's dumb because its something silly. They don't need to do those things you suggested. If they did, might as well do it for everything else. What point is it to have armours if you can't switch it around and use it? They let you do that and change your names. At least they don't let you change guild related things in the guild war. That's key to guild wars. The others are irrelevant to guild wars.

Stop making suggestions to make the game fair. It isn't. Life isn't. Nothing in the world is fair.

[busteroaf]

If you want to use American Football analogies, then what I've learned from this topic is that guild wars isn't about scoring touchdowns, but trying to tackle the same person as hard as possible over and over again until they can carry him off the field on a stretcher at the end of the match.
An average onlooker would then probably question: "is that really how the game is supposed to be played?"
To me that sounds more like a good original concept that got hit by a freight train and ended up all mangled.
And from what I understand from you guys, Gree made a trainwreck in one of their games, liked the trainwreck and has been copying the trainwreck into all of their games?
(Well, looking on the bright side, it's a smaller trainwreck than tap4fun's Galaxy Empire; that one's current battle system is a "chemical railcars exploding in a ball of flame" trainwreck...)

Oh gosh, where to start. I'll try and keep this short and sweet. Its hard for me, I know. Yes, the beat them into a bloody pulp could be considered the "target them and leave them in shambles and carry them off on a stretcher." Not how football is played though, or at least it shouldn't be. But, like the normal game of football, most teams don't just give up after they have a lead. There is no guarantee that if the other team makes a comeback, you can continue to score at will. Nothing is a gimmie. Yes, teams will put in their second and third string players. Do they simply run victory formation plays to run out the clock for the last quarter or however long they're in the game? No. They try to score as well. They're part of the team, they want playing time. They're competing for starting spots. They want to show that they can play as well. Do you fault them if they continue to score on the opposing team?

The analogy to football was directed because Meepo made a comment that I took as "I can't win this, I'm going to pack it up and start fresh next time". That lead me to say a) I don't want quitters on my team, and b) you never give up until the clock reads 00:00. Also, the team that was winning with 1 second left. Do you think they said "sure, its only one second, what could possibly happen?" That is the kind of thinking I wouldn't want on my team, especially when we have a "ensured" victory. In most cases, one second left and a 3 point lead is a victory... but again, nothing is guaranteed.

[Eunuchorn]

You are you kidding me? Really? You're going to assume and pretend someone is in the 8th grade! You attack people's life? It's fine to say something about their language abilities because you can always question the things people say but to assume someone is a child? Are you that much of a shameless person? Since you're going to say something about people's days and life then how about you take that ignorant snobbish brain of yours and questions how far mans should be eradicated from the face of this earth. For me, I had an enjoyable but frustrating time replying to posts on here. I am more than happy to make my point but I don't go saying things about people's lives. You clearly don't cherish life as much as me or anyone who actually does. Yes, we humans are terrible at times but if these comments you've been reading really supports your belief that humans need to eradicated ASAP, why don't you take charge and do it then? Go and eradicate the human species then.

You know what, you and your gems spending friends spend plenty of your or your parents hard earned money on this game for what purpose? To be the best guild? To boost your own egos? Tell your friends what you've achieved in this game with your money? Oh wow. Amazing.

The things you people are saying are from your mighty position as one the top guilds. You're not thinking from an objective perspective or even from the lower ends perspective. You just think you're right and not considering the other factors.

Actually, I spend because money has no value or meaning & is purely a slave mechanism which we were forced into thousands of years ago. I compare people's intellect to that of a child when they ignore facts & repeat themselves over & over to no avail, & I have never insulted someone's language as an assumption English isn't their first language. You're thinking is fully backwards in how people should be judged.
I think everything about this discussion & the institutions leading to the existence of these discussions & the accompanying comments are more than enough proof that wage disparity worked & still works in creating envy over nothing. The aggression in our society has been manufactured by worldwide water fluoridation & the introduction of preservatives. I think we live in a dream world, trapped in Carbon, conditioned for uncountable generations to love the trap. You will never convince me humans should be here in this existence.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia
I'm also schizophrenic if that means anything to you.

Our high horse as #1? Where did you get this impression? All my suggestions would benefit all guilds. End. Of. Story. As to everything Meepo has been repeating, his last 2 posts summed it up perfectly. He's basically trying to force me not to spend gems. Well that's what the top 100-2000 are for. As usual, you f*cking morons have proven your ability to be incapable of critical thought & ruined another perfectly good UNBIASED thread topic.


YES! farming pts consistently each battle is a strat for the top guilds, who can afford to refill their energy repeatedly. For those who can't, the thing that differentiates them from similar spending guilds should be how well they use that energy.

[Eunuchorn]

Exactly, this thread has become a place where spoilt little kids with rich parents try to make the game better for only themselves, rather than the general KnD population. My suggestion would benefit the casual players, and the low/ average spenders by making the game have a better strategy than bashing one person until you're out of energy. If you guys never run out of energy, then it does not affect you posh kids in the slightest because you will still remain on top. Stop talking as if you are the only players in the game.

You're dumb, this already exists for people who can't spend gems. Please refer to previous post & stop replying.

[Eunuchorn]

They don't do that for the arena or epic boss. Stop being a baby and just deal with it. I don't care when you started this thread, it's dumb because its something silly. They don't need to do those things you suggested. If they did, might as well do it for everything else. What point is it to have armours if you can't switch it around and use it? They let you do that and change your names. At least they don't let you change guild related things in the guild war. That's key to guild wars. The others are irrelevant to guild wars.

Stop making suggestions to make the game fair. It isn't. Life isn't. Nothing in the world is fair.

I Reread what you're referring to & I misunderstood what you meant when you said "lineup". You meant locking the war roster list. I assumed something else, because we already covered that as the first, easiest, & most appropriate response by Gree.

As to Arena, this must be a new change I didn't notice due to low arena activity.

I think you're confused as to who is actually saying what in this thread. Who has said anything about fair? All my ideas are beneficial to anyone in any guild. You people are f*cking ******* retarded

[busteroaf]

Exactly, this thread has become a place where spoilt little kids with rich parents try to make the game better for only themselves, rather than the general KnD population. My suggestion would benefit the casual players, and the low/ average spenders by making the game have a better strategy than bashing one person until you're out of energy. If you guys never run out of energy, then it does not affect you posh kids in the slightest because you will still remain on top. Stop talking as if you are the only players in the game.

Spoilt? Sorry Charlie, I've been off mommy and daddy's funds for 15 years now. Also, while I felt I was going around in circles arguing points with you, I actually enjoyed it. I don't feel that it ever needed to resort to name calling though.

[Alitia]

Meepo is right.

Busteroaf ... go to bathroom and keep doing it.

Tacoma, will eat you in next GW. I ll make sure i plump you 100x.


Actually, I spend because money has no value or meaning & is purely a slave mechanism which we were forced into thousands of years ago. I compare people's intellect to that of a child when they ignore facts & repeat themselves over & over to no avail, & I have never insulted someone's language as an assumption English isn't their first language. You're thinking is fully backwards in how people should be judged.
I think everything about this discussion & the institutions leading to the existence of these discussions & the accompanying comments are more than enough proof that wage disparity worked & still works in creating envy over nothing. The aggression in our society has been manufactured by worldwide water fluoridation & the introduction of preservatives. I think we live in a dream world, trapped in Carbon, conditioned for uncountable generations to love the trap. You will never convince me humans should be here in this existence.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia
I'm also schizophrenic if that means anything to you.

Our high horse as #1? Where did you get this impression? All my suggestions would benefit all guilds. End. Of. Story. As to everything Meepo has been repeating, his last 2 posts summed it up perfectly. He's basically trying to force me not to spend gems. Well that's what the top 100-2000 are for. As usual, you f*cking morons have proven your ability to be incapable of critical thought & ruined another perfectly good UNBIASED thread topic.

Thanks for displaying your lovely personality. I have achieved my aim to annoy the heck out of you. THAT is why I find this so hilarious. I can argue whatever I want and you'd react. :D

[Alitia]

Meepo is right.

Busteroaf ... go to bathroom and keep doing it.

Tacoma, will eat you in next GW. I ll make sure i plump you 100x.


I Reread what you're referring to & I misunderstood what you meant when you said "lineup". You meant locking the war roster list. I assumed something else, because we already covered that as the first, easiest, & most appropriate response by Gree.

As to Arena, this must be a new change I didn't notice due to low arena activity.

I think you're confused as to who is actually saying what in this thread. Who has said anything about fair? All my ideas are beneficial to anyone in any guild. You people are f*cking ******* retarded

HAHA thanks for making me laugh. A LOT for that matter. You have a nice time in your hole. Go find a deserted island to live on if you think capitalism is so useless. Don't spend. Be a hobo or something. Lol.

[busteroaf]

Oh please. I don't care about your members. I don't care about your advantages. Bla blah blah! I'm saying you're already one of the top guilds so why complain about the name changing and the list line up? It annoys you that's why you're saying it. ALL OF WHAT YOU PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT THESE CHANGES IS BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE IT DISRUPTS YOU EFFICIENCY. OMG. UNDERSTAND?!

OMG I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS!... calm down. Please note, all caps makes it slightly harder to read your posts.

You said we had great many advantages and we've been on top for how long? I simply responded to your statement/question. When other people keep saying we're up on this high horse and we want to stay on top, I get confused. Duh. Who doesn't want to be #1?

[busteroaf]

Hey Eun... can you bust out those troll pictures again? I think its time the thread gets shut down.

[Alitia]

Meepo is right.

Busteroaf ... go to bathroom and keep doing it.

Tacoma, will eat you in next GW. I ll make sure i plump you 100x.


OMG I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS!... calm down. Please note, all caps makes it slightly harder to read your posts.

You said we had great many advantages and we've been on top for how long? I simply responded to your statement/question. When other people keep saying we're up on this high horse and we want to stay on top, I get confused. Duh. Who doesn't want to be #1?

YAY AM I STILL CONFUSING YOU?! I sure hope I am. You know, you're funny. I think your mindset is bonkers and I love it. You entertain me with essays, which I only read a few lines of. But you went off topic about the last thing I said. Stop being confused about everything. Learn to read and interpret. Did you not go to school? Must I make everything absolutely clear? Do I need to give you exact answers for my words. It's not maths. You're making yourself look dumb. Just stop. Please. Or continue. I want to aggravate you some more.

[Eunuchorn]

HAHA thanks for making me laugh. A LOT for that matter. You have a nice time in your hole. Go find a deserted island to live on if you think capitalism is so useless. Don't spend. Be a hobo or something. Lol.

I actually wasnt annoyed at all by this thread until very recently. I actually had to pull over to write all of that, & was seriously contemplating killing myself on the freeway just prior, so thanks? Or maybe in freak irony, I would have finally done it & freed myself were it not for your very long-term conditioned response. So, I retract my thanks.

Live on a deserted island to avoid capitalism. Oh right, every country is capitalist. My guess is your 6th or 7th grade. If it was really that easy to pick up & disappear, wouldn't I have done it? May the end come for us all & soon.

[Alitia]

Meepo is right.

Busteroaf ... go to bathroom and keep doing it.

Tacoma, will eat you in next GW. I ll make sure i plump you 100x.


I actually wasnt annoyed at all by this thread until very recently. I actually had to pull over to write all of that, & was seriously contemplating killing myself on the freeway just prior, so thanks? Or maybe in freak irony, I would have finally done it & freed myself were it not for your very long-term conditioned response. So, I retract my thanks.

Live on a deserted island to avoid capitalism. Oh right, every country is capitalist. My guess is your 6th or 7th grade. If it was really that easy to pick up & disappear, wouldn't I have done it? May the end come for us all & soon.

It's you're not your in you're 6th or 7th grade. You can live in places that aren't plagued with capitalism? There are quite a few places like that in the world. Many cultures have areas preserved because the people don't want to be plagued with such ideals. Go live there.

Oh and thanks for stopping to post. I feel very special.

[Eunuchorn]

Hey Eun... can you bust out those troll pictures again? I think its time the thread gets shut down.

Gladly.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps7c7e087d.jpg
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps37c65865.png
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps3a250f47.png
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps2321d66e.jpg
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps293c9485.jpg
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps5cb95967.jpg
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zpse8789daf.jpg
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps8d92d597.jpg
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps51c141b6.jpg

[Meepo]

Our high horse as #1? Where did you get this impression? All my suggestions would benefit all guilds. End. Of. Story. As to everything Meepo has been repeating, his last 2 posts summed it up perfectly. He's basically trying to force me not to spend gems. Well that's what the top 100-2000 are for. As usual, you f*cking morons have proven your ability to be incapable of critical thought & ruined another perfectly good UNBIASED thread topic.

Farming a person repeatedly will STILL remain a strat for top guilds to beat other top guilds, as the money in their pockets allows them to do so. I don't know where you derive your logic from, thinking I am trying to make you stop spending. I repeat, spending will still net you top prize. I never disagreed with anything other than the name changing. Stop looking at things from a biased perspective. The victory system will not affect you, because you will still remain at the top due to your ability to magically refill your energy. You will win every battle anyway, and win the higher scoring battles too.

Stop being an idiot, it does not affect you and you will still be able to spend as much as you want to with equal rewards. Only those without the ability to infinitely spend gems are affected. Stop saying it affects you when it doesn't. If you don't care about money, if you want a world where money holds no importance, try looking at the bottom of the ocean. I hear the fastest way down there is to spend your meaningless money on an iron ball and chain.

[busteroaf]

YAY AM I STILL CONFUSING YOU?! I sure hope I am. You know, you're funny. I think your mindset is bonkers and I love it. You entertain me with essays, which I only read a few lines of. But you went off topic about the last thing I said. Stop being confused about everything. Learn to read and interpret. Did you not go to school? Must I make everything absolutely clear? Do I need to give you exact answers for my words. It's not maths. You're making yourself look dumb. Just stop. Please. Or continue. I want to aggravate you some more.

Actually, yes, I am still confused. The fact you can't turn off the multi-quote makes me wonder if you are advertising for PB_Buncil or... Little help?

Yes, I went to school. I went to college. I graduated college.

Also, maths. Funny story. I actually studied up through Differential Equations and Physics for Engineering majors. Even did a little Statics and Dynamics. I also took an extra Physics class my second semester of my senior year of college because I only needed 1 more credit to graduate. Sorry, let me rephrase that so you can understand. I took an extra Physics class for fun. "Maths" is my strong point. Biology though. Eek. I hated that class.

[Meepo]

Wow, you're going to resort to spamming in order to close a thread that your tiny brain can't comprehend? All these points are valid, you just have the intelligence of a goldfish. YOU are the ones being biased.

[busteroaf]

Wow, you're going to resort to spamming in order to close a thread that your tiny brain can't comprehend? All these points are valid, you just have the intelligence of a goldfish. YOU are the ones being biased.

No, it quickly spiraled downward, and now nothing anyone says has any merit. Try and recover and have a valid discussion in this thread anymore. It likely won't happen. That is what Thatzme was implying about 20 posts ago.

Also, do note that I said I rather enjoyed the back and forth between you and I.

[Meepo]

Actually, yes, I am still confused. The fact you can't turn off the multi-quote makes me wonder if you are advertising for PB_Buncil or... Little help?

Yes, I went to school. I went to college. I graduated college.

Also, maths. Funny story. I actually studied up through Differential Equations and Physics for Engineering majors. Even did a little Statics and Dynamics. I also took an extra Physics class my second semester of my senior year of college because I only needed 1 more credit to graduate. Sorry, let me rephrase that so you can understand. I took an extra Physics class for fun. "Maths" is my strong point. Biology though. Eek. I hated that class.

Ooh, a little physics, statics, dynamics and DE's and you think you're a genius. Anyone in a true engineering course will know that you need much more than that to have any expertise whatsoever. So far, your points have all been biased to support those who have infinite money to spend, even though it won't affect you whatsoever.

[Alitia]

Actually, yes, I am still confused. The fact you can't turn off the multi-quote makes me wonder if you are advertising for PB_Buncil or... Little help?

Can't be bothered.


Actually
Yes, I went to school. I went to college. I graduated college.

Also, maths. Funny story. I actually studied up through Differential Equations and Physics for Engineering majors. Even did a little Statics and Dynamics. I also took an extra Physics class my second semester of my senior year of college because I only needed 1 more credit to graduate. Sorry, let me rephrase that so you can understand. I took an extra Physics class for fun. "Maths" is my strong point. Biology though. Eek. I hated that class.

Explains why you're bad with words then and why you need clear and concise explanations. That sucks. Oh well. So, what kind of job do you have then?

[busteroaf]

Ooh, a little physics, statics, dynamics and DE's and you think you're a genius. Anyone in a true engineering course will know that you need much more than that to have any expertise whatsoever. So far, your points have all been biased to support those who have infinite money to spend, even though it won't affect you whatsoever.

Never said I was a genius. Was just answering the question of if I went to school. Then I started talking about maths, and different math based classes I took. Again, never said I was a genius.

[busteroaf]

Can't be bothered.
So you're lazy?


Explains why you're bad with words then and why you need clear and concise explanations. That sucks. Oh well. So, what kind of job do you have then?

Sorry, I've answered this many times. It looks like you will have to go back and actually read my "essays" to find the answer. I would wager I have referenced my own job about... 20-30 times in threads.

[Alitia]

Sorry, I've answered this many times. It looks like you will have to go back and actually read my "essays" to find the answer. I would wager I have referenced my own job about... 20-30 times in threads.

I don't have to go back and read your "essays". Why would I do that? I'm lazy. I don't know why I bother. I think I shall remove myself from this thread and just live a life outside of the virtual world now. I suggest you do the same. I think that would be much more fun than these pointless exchanges. You have a nice day now.

[Meepo]

You should all consider the implications of my suggestion more carefully.

-A victory system means resource management will become a driving factor that determines positions on guild leaderboards. This means:

1. Top guilds are unaffected, because they have pretty much INFINITE resources. They will remain at the top.
2. For guilds without infinite energy, the way they spend their limited energy will determine their positions.

Please think about how it could work before referring to things like football, or you will seem very stupid. Spending money should give a large advantage, but shouldn't be the only advantage.

[busteroaf]

You should all consider the implications of my suggestion more carefully.

-A victory system means resource management will become a driving factor that determines positions on guild leaderboards. This means:

1. Top guilds are unaffected, because they have pretty much INFINITE resources. They will remain at the top.
2. For guilds without infinite energy, the way they spend their limited energy will determine their positions.

Please think about how it could work before referring to things like football, or you will seem very stupid. Spending money should give a large advantage, but shouldn't be the only advantage.

If you are saying "in addition to the point standing leaderboards" yes, the above statement can apply. Your original suggestion being the following correct?


The system I have in mind is that the points for beating an enemy guild in battle should be higher. You can by all means feel free to bash on a single person, but it should be the actual VICTORY against your opponent guild that yields you the rewards, not the bashing of that person. A guild with 3/3 wins should be placed higher than a guild with 2/3 wins. Sure, there should be rewards for getting more points in a particular battle, but the current point system focuses too much on "overkilling" your opponents, and not enough on "victory" over your opponents.
I quoted this to make sure I'm following along... being not good with the english language and all. Damn maths....

Again, this needs to be stated as "in addition to the current system we have." It is unlikely that a guild will win 1,000,000-0 once, and with that one win, get a high ranking on the leaderboard, and call it quits. It will take multiple high point victories to rise to the top. But you, you want to be rewarded for wins and resource management. Go for it. The two can co-exist. But if you think they are going to give the best rewards for minimal wins, you're dead wrong.


However, the victory system encourages saving energy for next battle rather than expending all resources on a single battle to go 1000000000-100 against another guild.
Another quote regarding your idea. Your victory system doesn't encourage a spending guild to do anything, they will still get their wins on points, since ultimately, that is what decides wins. This was point #1 right? Top guilds are unaffected because they will spend money to win. Again, this seems geared toward non-spending guilds. Again, I want to make sure I'm understanding you right.

Now follow my next thought process here.

Also, just because a guild doesn't have infinite resources (which I don't think any of the guilds do) doesn't mean they can't toss in their occasional share of gem spending to gain an advantage in one of those wars, just to notch another win. A non-spending, limited resource guild is close to a win, but "out of resources." Do they say "you know what, lets just pack it up try again next match and hope we're lucky for a win." Or do you think they might say "you know what, let me buy some more energy and go for that win." With a couple more victories, comes the next tier of prizes. Don't you think that as they approach the next prize tier, they won't be tempted to spend a few more gems to get that last victory? This then turns them into a spending guild, with access to more resources than the non-spenders.

Congratulations. You just found another way for Gree to make money. The "Wins" leaderboard. Again, dominated by money. Kinda makes you sick to your stomach doesn't it?

Now to the football:

The football analogy deals with the "ensured" victory statement you keep making. I'm stating, there is no such thing. You are never guaranteed a win. The team that went up with a second left, by most anyone's standards, would have been 99.9% guaranteed to win. But the other team didn't give up. They came back to win. Did the other team think "sweet, 1 second left, its in the bag!" You can't be sure, but I wouldn't doubt it. Now follow along.

Say you're up 2k (or any comfortable lead) points on a guild that seems to not be fighting you. In your eyes, that is a comfortable lead because they appear that they've thrown in the towel. You've looked at the log, and they haven't won a single match. Also, they haven't tried to battle you since the very start of the match. What if everyone says "Cool, we won, I'm going to go do laundry or whatever for the next 30 minutes." Then, the opposing guild wakes up, starts whacking away at the wall, since they can't beat any of your team, and magically they shred that lead. You log in with a few minutes to go, realize you're only up by 200 points now. You first try to contact the other guild members, and then you try and start a battle, but oh no, the game is lagging and you can't start your battle fast enough. Connection error. You know its close to the end, and guess what? By the time you get your battle started, the war is now over and you lost because you thought you had a comfortable lead and were saving your resources for next time. You thought you had it in the bag, so you more or less gave up. That is what you get for stopping early.

Also, you said football doesn't count because you a team only plays one game at once. Last time I checked, that is how war is. Football teams have to fight another battle next week. Yes, its not immediately after the current game, but trust me, it still takes a lot out of you. Any sport does. Why do you think that teams start putting in backups? To not injure their best players, and start resting them as soon as possible (you know, saving resources) for the next game. Every last hit they take is that much more they have to rest from.

So, while you're saying my comparison to football is viewed as stupid, I would beg to differ. I also didn't resort to name calling.

[Meepo]

Yes, I mean that gemspending and resource management should coexist and compliment each other.

When I said a 3/3 guild should be placed above a 2/3 guild, I didn't mean to sound that it should be strictly the case. If the number of victories is close, for example, two guilds are 30/50 and 33/50, then the war point accumulation from battles should be a significant factor to determine which guild is on top. However, it is when a guild with 10 wins places higher than a guild with 50 wins that a problem arises. Top guilds would win most of their battles anyway, provided a good matchmaking system, so it shouldn't affect their position on the leaderboards. --> benefits BOTH gem spending and resource management. My idea is aimed to differentiate between the middle and low guilds. Nowhere did I say that gem spending is bad, or that guilds shouldn't spend a few gems in order to muster a few extra resources to win a battle.

Yes, victory is never ensured, but there can be a point where the chances of winning are beyond reasonable doubt. Your football example of being 3 points up with 1 second left is not beyond reasonable doubt, as it only takes a fraction of a second for the QB to throw a pass to a receiver in the end zone, or for a field goal. Beyond reasonable doubt means something like being 9 points ahead with 2 seconds on the clock.

As for your example of being up by 2k and losing by them chipping at your gate, that is not what I mean by the "enough but only enough" approach. I mean that you should save your resources, while still being aware of what your opponent is doing. I never said anything about going to sleep for half an hour. It is about managing resources for next battle, while still being aware of the situation of the current one.

For the football thing, remember that in war, there are more than two parties participating. Remember that there could be neighbouring countries waiting for the chance to fight you, similar to KnD's guild wars. Sure players' energy could be spent, but they are trained to recover within time for next game. In war, resources like food, weapons and machinery take much longer to generate. Squandering resources unnecessarily to defeat one opponent should lead to a disadvantage in a subsequent fight (again, I am not referring to people with infinite gems). If America were to use all its nukes on a single enemy, they would run out of nukes for use on other countries (weird example but you get the point).

I don't care whether GREE makes money or not. It doesn't affect me. I'm just saying GREE has staff making money decisions for them, so the opinions of the players shouldn't be based on GREE's revenue, but on the general enjoyment that the players would receive, because they are also key stakeholders in the game.

[Matty-cakes]

Miyabi is one of my new favorite people! & that's saying a lot considering I hate almost everyone.

Isn't he great?!?! If anyone gets anything out of this ridiculous thread I hope it is the fact that Miyabi (Centurions for life) is so cool.

In fact, you should all PM him. I know he would appreciate the chance to tell you all his tips and strategies for KnD.

[Miyabi]

Isn't he great?!?! If anyone gets anything out of this ridiculous thread I hope it is the fact that Miyabi (Centurions for life) is so cool.

In fact, you should all PM him. I know he would appreciate the chance to tell you all his tips and strategies for KnD.

Lol matty, stop this pm thing, here is not our Line.
(Pm vincent or justice....) :)

[gardibolt]

All I know is that next time Gree wants to have a mini-war and not hand out rewards, they should make gem spending impossible. It would be an interesting experiment

[Eunuchorn]

Meepo, all your points are already in place for non-spending guilds. What exactly is it you want to see implemented?

[knights]

Lol matty, stop this pm thing, here is not our Line.
(Pm vincent or justice....) :)

Miyabi, forgot to congratulate on the win. Think you guys can hold up against RR if its a 3-day war?

[Meepo]

Meepo, all your points are already in place for non-spending guilds. What exactly is it you want to see implemented?

I'm suggesting that the bonus for winning against other guilds be much higher, so that the main source of war points come from winning battles rather than attacking to rack up guild points. There would still be points for attacking, but they'd be lower in proportion to the win bonus.

[Jordon1992]

Stress reliever? Not so much. Reading people's comments & ideas just reinforces my belief that the human race is retarded & needs to be eradicated asap. lmaoo yess this was the most educated comment here

[Eunuchorn]

The win bonus is already ridiculously huge. Your idea is sh*t.

[KayOrzz]

The win bonus is already ridiculously huge. Your idea is sh*t.

they prolly didn't win much battles to notice anything significant eun, gotta pardon the ignorant on that matter :D

[Meepo]

It is not ridiculously large. It is way too small in proportion to what you get for simply attacking other players.

What numbers are you getting for winning? Your high win bonuses are derived from accumulating points during battle and not from victory itself.

I guess increase is the wrong word for me to use here. It should be rescaled.

[Eunuchorn]

It is not ridiculously large. It is way too small in proportion to what you get for simply attacking other players.

What numbers are you getting for winning? Your high win bonuses are derived from accumulating points during battle and not from victory itself.

I guess increase is the wrong word for me to use here. It should be rescaled.

You're right, there should be rescaling all around, but if Gree does it will prob be the opposite of how you'd want it lol all they know are getting their spenders to spend more.

You could win by 100 points & get a 50k point win bonus

[Miyabi]

Miyabi, forgot to congratulate on the win. Think you guys can hold up against RR if its a 3-day war?

Thanks.
It depends on everybody work availablity too.
And guilds such as RR, Untouchables, Unleash, Evolve, PB, everyone have high chance to win~
So anyone that plays til date in here is already a winner. (And any guilds tat i left out.)

[Meepo]

You're right, there should be rescaling all around, but if Gree does it will prob be the opposite of how you'd want it lol all they know are getting their spenders to spend more.

You could win by 100 points & get a 50k point win bonus

There could be ways that GREE could do it in order to increase spending. Something like encouraging low spenders, the majority of the population, to buy the 15 gems in order to secure a win.

I think there are many possibilities on what it could be. One could be something like having a base value awarded for a victory.

For example, have a base value of 5000 for a win, and scale it up appropriately. What does this mean?

Lets have an example of low level guilds, one beats the other 150-100. The win bonus could be calculated by B + R, where B is the base value of 5000, and R is the effort that you needed to input in order to win (the other team's score). So in that battle, the winning team would have a total score of 150 + (5000 + 100) = 5250. The loser gets only 100. The win bonus is the thing in brackets.

In the case of higher level guilds, lets say they go 7000-5000 (I know you guys get more than this, it's just an example). The winner gets a bonus of B + R on top of their score. So their score would be 7000 + (5000 + 5000) = 17000 in total. Losing team has 5000 points at the end.

However, in the case of high level guild against a low level guild, or a guild that is asleep, or has given up entirely, the score could be 5000-400. Winner ends up with 5000 + (5000 + 400) = 10400. Loser ends up with 400.

As you can see, the difference between this and the current system is just the base value. I know that these numbers aren't perfect and there are kinks that need to be fixed, but it doesn't mean that the system would be entirely horrible. I think it really highlights the concept of diminishing returns, and could be a strategy to get some low spending people to spend some extra pocket money.

[busteroaf]

There could be ways that GREE could do it in order to increase spending. Something like encouraging low spenders, the majority of the population, to buy the 15 gems in order to secure a win.

I think there are many possibilities on what it could be. One could be something like having a base value awarded for a victory.

For example, have a base value of 5000 for a win, and scale it up appropriately. What does this mean?

Lets have an example of low level guilds, one beats the other 150-100. The win bonus could be calculated by B + R, where B is the base value of 5000, and R is the effort that you needed to input in order to win (the other team's score). So in that battle, the winning team would have a total score of 150 + (5000 + 100) = 5250. The loser gets only 100. The win bonus is the thing in brackets.

In the case of higher level guilds, lets say they go 7000-5000 (I know you guys get more than this, it's just an example). The winner gets a bonus of B + R on top of their score. So their score would be 7000 + (5000 + 5000) = 17000 in total. Losing team has 5000 points at the end.

However, in the case of high level guild against a low level guild, or a guild that is asleep, or has given up entirely, the score could be 5000-400. Winner ends up with 5000 + (5000 + 400) = 10400. Loser ends up with 400.

As you can see, the difference between this and the current system is just the base value. I know that these numbers aren't perfect and there are kinks that need to be fixed, but it doesn't mean that the system would be entirely horrible. I think it really highlights the concept of diminishing returns, and could be a strategy to get some low spending people to spend some extra pocket money.

Your example also screws the winning guild if they are against either a small guild or a guild that is asleep. You still have to pummel the other team to get the same amount of points you would had the guild actually put up a fight, or you were paired against a small guild. This type of scoring seems to only benefit the small guild, while almost assuredly forcing the large guild to spend even more money on the off chance they are paired against a small/non-competitive guild.

[Meepo]

Your example also screws the winning guild if they are against either a small guild or a guild that is asleep. You still have to pummel the other team to get the same amount of points you would had the guild actually put up a fight, or you were paired against a small guild. This type of scoring seems to only benefit the small guild, while almost assuredly forcing the large guild to spend even more money on the off chance they are paired against a small/non-competitive guild.

But you can see that the large guild who beats the small guild still gets a large number of points. It only screws them up if the only battles they fight are against trash guilds. Over a long period of time, 4 days or so, the numbers will average themselves out and fit a more accurate representation of which guild deserves the no.1 spot. It is highly unlikely that every single battle will be against weak guilds. You claim to be a maths whiz. Have you done statistics before in your maths course? I am aware that it won't be certain unless programmed into the matchmaking system. However, it is extremely likely that things will average out (normally distributed?) because each guild would have the opportunity to fight against both large and small guilds.

The 4-hour war was only a test and I believe that future wars will be leaning more on the timescale of 3-7 days, giving the law of averages time to take effect.

Edit: I also forgot to mention that the large guild that fights the other large guild will use more resources doing so, energy isn't the only resource, gems are too and saving them up for fighting a tough battle does not go to waste in the same way that saving energy does. I believe this further emphasises the usefulness and versatility of gems.

[busteroaf]

"Which guild deserves the no. 1 spot"... According to you, which guild uses effective resource management and puts the win ahead of the points. Most everyone else's perception: which guild likely ends up spending the most. Your idea still never benefits a small guild outside of an otherwise ridiculous amount of bonus points compared to what they might normally generate (from your examples), but will be totally made useless by all the larger guilds winning as well. Which correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that was what you were looking for. Making the playing field even by putting more emphasis on the win than just bashing each others heads in in a dual to the death... or a one sided pounding.

Again, no matter what they do to scale things, it likely won't change anything. Big guilds will still gem, some smaller guilds will too, and some guilds won't spend a cent. Everyone stays even. You were better off with the tiered victory point/league style leaderboard.

Question: where did your guild end up in the first two wars?

I ask because I know our guild was constantly keeping an eye on the leaderboard, noting when guilds were making big moves. If we saw a guild making a move, regardless of if we were matched against a small guild or not, we responded in kind. Resource management goes out the window, which, I thought was one of your big points - "guilds should be rewarded for effective resource management"

By your example, and like I've said before, the large guild paired against a small guild has to do essentially double the work to keep up. And yes, averages and blah blah... They'll get the odd match-up, so will we. I understand. But in the heat of the moment, you focus on the WIN: What's Important Now. That being keeping the lead (or Top 5, or Top 10 spot, whatever it is). I don't want to wait for the law of averages to come into play so I can make a comeback when another guild takes over a lead, or jumps me in the standings. I don't want to give them that option.

[Meepo]

Yes, gemspending will still get you the win in the end. No. 1 Spot will be gemspenders. That is a given and you should see that I'm not trying to argue against that. My idea was never to allow low level, non-spending guilds to have the top spot. It was never to let weak guilds rule over the strong. It was aimed to add an element of resource management to the game.

As for how it changes the game, it becomes "let's use the 300 gems that I have in order to win all my battles" instead of "let's just spend all 300 of my gems and be done with it". It rewards the ability to identify when to make the big plays, and when to just take an easy victory. Sure, it won't affect the top guilds that much, but for a low/mid guild, it will. You can focus on keeping your top 5 spot, because it will still allow you to do so. I don't get how resource management goes down the drain. Can't you see that if you were to wait until you encounter a big guild, you would get more value for your resources. If you don't want to wait, that is impatience, which should be punished.

Also in my examples before, note that in the first example, the winner had 7k points and in the third example, the winner earned earned 5k. If both were to win using 7k points, their scores would be 17k and 12k, a difference of 5k to reward the guild that identifies the correct time to make the big play. A general has to identify the best time to strike. A QB has to identify the right time to call certain plays. You don't want to wait for the law of averages, but you have to anyway, because the war will last a long time whether you wait or not.

I understand that the numbers won't affect your style of play that much, but for lower guilds, it will.

[Eunuchorn]

Meepo, I really think your trying to enact a strategy that is already in place

[busteroaf]

I don't get how resource management goes down the drain. Can't you see that if you were to wait until you encounter a big guild, you would get more value for your resources. If you don't want to wait, that is impatience, which should be punished.

...You don't want to wait for the law of averages, but you have to anyway, because the war will last a long time whether you wait or not.


Jesus, why do I bother? You're a freaking idiot. You simply do not get it. You aren't guaranteed that your next battle will get that big guild for a big bonus, or that "on average" things will work out perfectly. If you wait, you're screwed from the start. But no, you think there should be more "punishment" for not "effective resource management" God I would love to see a game designed by you. Your whole original idea was reward someone for a win, but "just enough":


Also, the point bonus for victory against other guilds should be made higher. It would reward the 'enough but only enough' strategy, which should apply to any war.

Come the end of the war... if you're still waiting for your next "big battle" you're the loser. Also, if you win by "just enough" #2 and #3 pass you by within the first minute, and guess what, you lose again. Your whole example is based on averages and being perfectly fair because "on average" people will have the same mixed bag of battles.

If by your "averages", since it has been a 3 day long war, by this time, you should probably be about even in points and wins relative to where you "should" average out to finish. The final battle, #1 gets paired with a low level guild, and #2 gets paired against #3. #1 has to spend more resources since their bonus is less because they're up against a small guild, thus resource management goes out the door. #2 and #3 realize they are up against each other, and go balls out. But, in the end, since they're both going balls out, the winner gets a HUGE bonus since they win their opponents score as a bonus by your idea. #1 just lost the battle based on their matchup and your bonus idea. But that is what "should" have happened all along if everything averages out right?

Please, stop posting.

[Meepo]

Meepo, I really think your trying to enact a strategy that is already in place

The way that the guilds I was in handled the last two guild wars was to use all energy when it became available, and doing otherwise wouldn't have made a huge impact on our final score. By the second battle of the 4-hour war, we had much less energy, but so did our opponent. I thought: It really doesnt matter if we win or lose this battle, but I don't think it should be this way, there should be something that discourages impatience. What strategy are you talking about that does that?

Buster, why don't you go read up on how a normal distribution works. Every word you spout makes me more doubtful that maths is your forte. Answer this, if you're such a mathematician. If you toss a coin 100 times calculate the probability of getting exactly 50 heads. It's pretty low isn't it? Now why don't you calculate the probability of getting between 40 and 60 heads? Calculate it and prove to me you're not an idiot.

If you really did engineering courses, you would know that nothing is definite. Even buildings are designed within a certain probability not to fall down. You were probably lying when you said you did all those subjects in college. If you wait for the best moment, which WILL come, you will get more value for your money. If you're impatient, you will only be forced to spend more gems to make up for it.

Your examples ONLY hold true if there is only a single battle in the war. You are an idiot who doesn't know a thing about probability and distribution. By the end of the war, #1 will already be on the number 1 spot, given enough time has passed. Otherwise they shouldn't be #1.

You can pretend to be anything on the internet eh? So far, all your posts have only been geared towards keeping the guild wars as a mindless war of attrition, where you just have to worry about spending all your gems and energy and nothing else. I will keep disagreeing with you as long as you keep sounding the same way.

[busteroaf]

The way that the guilds I was in handled the last two guild wars was to use all energy when it became available, and doing otherwise wouldn't have made a huge impact on our final score. By the second battle of the 4-hour war, we had much less energy, but so did our opponent. I thought: It really doesnt matter if we win or lose this battle, but I don't think it should be this way, there should be something that discourages impatience. What strategy are you talking about that does that?

Buster, why don't you go read up on how a normal distribution works. Every word you spout makes me more doubtful that maths is your forte. Answer this, if you're such a mathematician. If you toss a coin 100 times calculate the probability of getting exactly 50 heads. It's pretty low isn't it? Now why don't you calculate the probability of getting between 40 and 60 heads? Calculate it and prove to me you're not an idiot.

If you really did engineering courses, you would know that nothing is definite. Even buildings are designed within a certain probability not to fall down. You were probably lying when you said you did all those subjects in college. If you wait for the best moment, which WILL come, you will get more value for your money. If you're impatient, you will only be forced to spend more gems to make up for it.

Your examples ONLY hold true if there is only a single battle in the war. You are an idiot who doesn't know a thing about probability and distribution. By the end of the war, #1 will already be on the number 1 spot, given enough time has passed. Otherwise they shouldn't be #1.

You can pretend to be anything on the internet eh? So far, all your posts have only been geared towards keeping the guild wars as a mindless war of attrition, where you just have to worry about spending all your gems and energy and nothing else. I will keep disagreeing with you as long as you keep sounding the same way.


Its ~8% of getting exactly 50. Probability of getting between 40-60 heads? Around what, 96.5%? Am I close? Even in the ballpark?

Wow. Yeah, you showed me. I totally didn't study any of that. Ever. I just decided to fake that I went to college and pulled random math courses out of my ass on a whim. If I didn't do anything related to math in college, why would I bother talking about it? Hey guess what, I took the AP exam in high school and placed out of Calc 1 in college. I also got a C the first time I took Calc 3, then a B the second time. Then I got a D the first time I took Differential Equations. Then I got an A the second time. Does any of that matter? No. Cause you don't believe anything I say anyway. Would like me to screenshot my transcript to show you I took both of those classes twice, and the grades I got to match up? Again, no, because you don't care. But you seem to be a master in math yourself, otherwise you probably wouldn't have asked the questions you did. Bravo. You win sir. I am clearly not worthy of your superior intellect. I was also taking these course in college 12-13 years ago. I started with engineering for two years, and then I switched majors. Thus: Engineering is not my career, and I don't sit and plug probability numbers into equations in my current job. Do you remember and use every last thing you learned in college?

Now, two questions for you since you must be so smart yourself:

1: A particle of mass 7 kg is at equilibrium on a plane which is inclined at an angle of 16 degrees. Find the coefficient of friction between the particle and the plane. Hell, I'll accept a diagram on how you would solve the equation.

2: Find the probability of me actually giving a crap about proving anything to you, or you proving anything to me.

Guess what, if you have a scientific calculator, you or anyone else could answer the first question. The second question requires having a brain and/or a sense of humor.

Again, you are wanting to change the system already in place to favor your "resource management" idea where you get "value" for your money, when Gree doesn't give a squat about that. They want a system that generates them the most money, whether you get "value" or not. That is what their business is, making money. Don't kid yourself that it will ever be anything but that. They could care less about someone who "saves" resources in order to be "effective" in the next battle they have. You get your moral, feel good win because you saved some energy by not beating the crap out of your opponent in one battle, so you had an extra couple of energy for the next. Congrats.

I hope Gree gives you a medal for feel good victories. Oh wait. That doesn't happen. Gree wants spenders spending money. So yes, you can suggest all you want, but if it doesn't make the game better, in turn bringing in more money spenders, you're wasting your breath. But go ahead, keep plugging away and peddling your flawed system.

Lastly, I'll show a little more of my fun side. Ever watch wrestling? You know, that fake "sports entertainment" show? I know, so mind-numbing, juvenile and barbaric. Perfect for a guy like me. There is a great quote that I want to share with you in regards to your "resource management" idea vs my icky "beat them to a pulp" idea (that every top guild seems to follow anyway), and how I hope we can be matched up at some point in a future guild war:

"You sit there and you thump your bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16 ... Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!"

I'm done with you.

[Eunuchorn]

I, for one, am disgusted by Meepo's snide, judgmental, ignorant arrogance.

[Meepo]

Its ~8% of getting exactly 50. Probability of getting between 40-60 heads? Around what, 96.5%? Am I close? Even in the ballpark?

Wow. Yeah, you showed me. I totally didn't study any of that. Ever. I just decided to fake that I went to college and pulled random math courses out of my ass on a whim. If I didn't do anything related to math in college, why would I bother talking about it? Hey guess what, I took the AP exam in high school and placed out of Calc 1 in college. I also got a C the first time I took Calc 3, then a B the second time. Then I got a D the first time I took Differential Equations. Then I got an A the second time. Does any of that matter? No. Cause you don't believe anything I say anyway. Would like me to screenshot my transcript to show you I took both of those classes twice, and the grades I got to match up? Again, no, because you don't care. But you seem to be a master in math yourself, otherwise you probably wouldn't have asked the questions you did. Bravo. You win sir. I am clearly not worthy of your superior intellect. I was also taking these course in college 12-13 years ago. I started with engineering for two years, and then I switched majors. Thus: Engineering is not my career, and I don't sit and plug probability numbers into equations in my current job. Do you remember and use every last thing you learned in college?

You're pretty much correct, so I'll give you that one. But what does this answer mean? If you actually had a "brain", you would have realised that my question was aimed to demonstrate that in a normal distribution, like that of guild war matchups, roughly 95% of your matchups will be within 2 standard deviations of the mean. I was aiming for you to get the right answer in order to support a point. I am not saying it to attack you directly, but rather to attack your ignorance towards the math that holds your argument of a one-off situation invalid.


Now, two questions for you since you must be so smart yourself:

1: A particle of mass 7 kg is at equilibrium on a plane which is inclined at an angle of 16 degrees. Find the coefficient of friction between the particle and the plane. Hell, I'll accept a diagram on how you would solve the equation.

2: Find the probability of me actually giving a crap about proving anything to you, or you proving anything to me.

Guess what, if you have a scientific calculator, you or anyone else could answer the first question. The second question requires having a brain and/or a sense of humor.

1. Coefficient is 0.29 I believe. This is irrelevant to the topic at hand and doesn't prove anything about your arguments against my suggestion.

2. Again, I was merely pointing out that your were ignoring the maths and if you had a brain, you would have acknowledged that I was using my example to show you that the impact of one-off situations like your examples become nullified if enough battles are fought. I really didn't care if you prove anything to me and I don't have to prove anything to you. I was just asking you not to ignore the statistics behind it. To you, I could just be some 8th grader who knows a little bit about statistics and it wouldn't matter.

Still not convinced? Still worried about that one-off situation? Why not just program a pseudo-random matchmaking system, which guarantees you a battle with a strong guild after a certain number of battles? Problem solved.

I really didn't care if you prove anything to me and I don't have to prove anything to you. I was just asking you not to ignore the statistics behind it. To you, I could just be some 8th grader who knows a little bit about statistics and it wouldn't matter.

I am just suggesting ideas, and have admitted that the numbers aren't perfect. However, you and your schizophrenic friend decide to play the "8th grader" card and to attack me. I have provided mathematical support towards my argument, which you have conveniently decided to ignore, choosing to flame me instead.


Again, you are wanting to change the system already in place to favor your "resource management" idea where you get "value" for your money, when Gree doesn't give a squat about that. They want a system that generates them the most money, whether you get "value" or not. That is what their business is, making money. Don't kid yourself that it will ever be anything but that. They could care less about someone who "saves" resources in order to be "effective" in the next battle they have. You get your moral, feel good win because you saved some energy by not beating the crap out of your opponent in one battle, so you had an extra couple of energy for the next. Congrats.

I hope Gree gives you a medal for feel good victories. Oh wait. That doesn't happen. Gree wants spenders spending money. So yes, you can suggest all you want, but if it doesn't make the game better, in turn bringing in more money spenders, you're wasting your breath. But go ahead, keep plugging away and peddling your flawed system.


You even said that my idea would still encourage gem spending to grab an extra victory. Why are you conveniently changing your mind all of a sudden?

Also, this is a SUGGESTION. GREE can choose whether they implement it or not. I am pointing out that a small change in the numbers can have a large impact on how the guild wars are played.


Lastly, I'll show a little more of my fun side. Ever watch wrestling? You know, that fake "sports entertainment" show? I know, so mind-numbing, juvenile and barbaric. Perfect for a guy like me. There is a great quote that I want to share with you in regards to your "resource management" idea vs my icky "beat them to a pulp" idea (that every top guild seems to follow anyway), and how I hope we can be matched up at some point in a future guild war:

"You sit there and you thump your bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16 ... Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass!"

I'm done with you.

Wanna try that "beat them to a pulp" idea in real life? Come at me fists blazing then! I will gladly "manage resources" (my crowbar) and we can see what happens. :)

In the end, I am only making a suggestion and demonstrating my reasoning behind it. There is no need to play the "8th grader" card, or to start attacking me.

[Musketeer]

Only one thing I want from the War, my due rewards.

Absolute silence from GREE on the matter, The Wise One has locked the relevant thread, five days since the war ended and I'm still waiting on my rewards for my Guild coming 23rd. I'd due 16,500 ep worth of Earth Armor which I want to level my BK+ with.

Not much point my playing this game anymore if I don't get the promised rewards for the time & effort I put in.

[deathexe]

Only one thing I want from the War, my due rewards.

Absolute silence from GREE on the matter, The Wise One has locked the relevant thread, five days since the war ended and I'm still waiting on my rewards for my Guild coming 23rd. I'd due 16,500 ep worth of Earth Armor which I want to level my BK+ with.

Not much point my playing this game anymore if I don't get the promised rewards for the time & effort I put in.

16,500EP? I don't think I've ever gotten that large an amount of fusion armors ever. Anyways, the Wise One already said to send in a ticket and wait for the rewards. I've a few guild mates who've just gotten the rewards today. I'm sure you'll be getting yours soon enough.

[Tachycardia]

I got mine last night and had a few guild mates get theirs as well.

just have to be patient, but to Gree's credit, they are getting it done

[Tachycardia]

You're pretty much correct, so I'll give you that one. But what does this answer mean? If you actually had a "brain", you would have realised that my question was aimed to demonstrate that in a normal distribution, like that of guild war matchups, roughly 95% of your matchups will be within 2 standard deviations of the mean. I was aiming for you to get the right answer in order to support a point. I am not saying it to attack you directly, but rather to attack your ignorance towards the math that holds your argument of a one-off situation invalid.



1. Coefficient is 0.29 I believe. This is irrelevant to the topic at hand and doesn't prove anything about your arguments against my suggestion.

2. Again, I was merely pointing out that your were ignoring the maths and if you had a brain, you would have acknowledged that I was using my example to show you that the impact of one-off situations like your examples become nullified if enough battles are fought. I really didn't care if you prove anything to me and I don't have to prove anything to you. I was just asking you not to ignore the statistics behind it. To you, I could just be some 8th grader who knows a little bit about statistics and it wouldn't matter.

Still not convinced? Still worried about that one-off situation? Why not just program a pseudo-random matchmaking system, which guarantees you a battle with a strong guild after a certain number of battles? Problem solved.

I really didn't care if you prove anything to me and I don't have to prove anything to you. I was just asking you not to ignore the statistics behind it. To you, I could just be some 8th grader who knows a little bit about statistics and it wouldn't matter.

I am just suggesting ideas, and have admitted that the numbers aren't perfect. However, you and your schizophrenic friend decide to play the "8th grader" card and to attack me. I have provided mathematical support towards my argument, which you have conveniently decided to ignore, choosing to flame me instead.



You even said that my idea would still encourage gem spending to grab an extra victory. Why are you conveniently changing your mind all of a sudden?

Also, this is a SUGGESTION. GREE can choose whether they implement it or not. I am pointing out that a small change in the numbers can have a large impact on how the guild wars are played.



Wanna try that "beat them to a pulp" idea in real life? Come at me fists blazing then! I will gladly "manage resources" (my crowbar) and we can see what happens. :)

In the end, I am only making a suggestion and demonstrating my reasoning behind it. There is no need to play the "8th grader" card, or to start attacking me.

When insulting someones intelligence, spell check can be a valuable ally.

[Tachycardia]

Also, did you just play the "I'll kick your ass in real life" card?

If so, Buster wins 5 internets.

[samuellee11]

Meepo actually spelled realized right for someone from the UK or anyone from a former British colony. By the way I am not taking sides-just pointing out a possibility. That's all.

[Musketeer]

16,500EP? I don't think I've ever gotten that large an amount of fusion armors ever. Anyways, the Wise One already said to send in a ticket and wait for the rewards. I've a few guild mates who've just gotten the rewards today. I'm sure you'll be getting yours soon enough.

I put too many zeros, I meant 1,650 EP. Here's hoping I get my rewards today 'cos I'm sick and tired of waiting.

[Tachycardia]

Meepo actually spelled realized right for someone from the UK or anyone from a former British colony. By the way I am not taking sides-just pointing out a possibility. That's all.

I was just giving him **** anyway

[Tachycardia]

We really cant say ****?

[Meepo]

When insulting someones intelligence, spell check can be a valuable ally.

Sorry, not an ignorant American.


Also, did you just play the "I'll kick your ass in real life" card?

If so, Buster wins 5 internets.

I don't actually want to kick his ass in real life, just showing how resource management can be of use in a fighting situation. Don't misunderstand.

[busteroaf]

Still not convinced? Still worried about that one-off situation? Why not just program a pseudo-random matchmaking system, which guarantees you a battle with a strong guild after a certain number of battles? Problem solved.

Problem solved. Cute. Now prove that Gree uses the same pseudo-random matchmaking system please. If you have THAT system where you are guaranteed that favorable matchup, withing a set number of battles, over a period of time, your thought process works. No one outside of Gree programmers know their programming though. Crucify me for being a Doubting Thomas.

While other guilds were already matched and fighting during the last 4 hour battle, our guild, and many others, waited over 20 minutes before being matched. Why is that? Please share with me why I should trust that Gree uses a proper matchmaking system with a proper bell curve of normal distribution. That is why I'm a Doubting Thomas. This is my point all along. We don't know what their matchmaking programming is, thus you CAN'T guarantee that the ideal matchup comes along within a reasonable time. You're assuming it to be such. Maybe I'm wrong, but I sure did feel like RR was matched with more smaller guilds than should be considered a normal distribution. Again. Doubting Thomas. Get a Gree programmer to divulge their matchmaking algorithm and I'll stop doubting.


You even said that my idea would still encourage gem spending to grab an extra victory. Why are you conveniently changing your mind all of a sudden?

You're right. I did. But this was with your victory/league and total wins being worth something. The additional reward tiers based on wins. I still don't agree with just the bonus change. Moving on.


Wanna try that "beat them to a pulp" idea in real life? Come at me fists blazing then! I will gladly "manage resources" (my crowbar) and we can see what happens. :)

In the end, I am only making a suggestion and demonstrating my reasoning behind it. There is no need to play the "8th grader" card, or to start attacking me.

As far as I can tell, I wasn't the one who said I was a genius because I took a lot of engineering based math classes. You did. You also questioned and doubted the fact I took said classes. Then you are the one who wants to bring the "real life" bs into it, when I kept it within the confines of the game. So, I didn't start attacking you. Also, good choice on the crowbar though. Nice and dense, yet still easy to wield. Bravo. Of course I never said I'd bring my "fists blazing" to the fight.


"You can pretend to be anything on the internet eh?"
Yup. Sure can. Just like you can also pretend to be a tough guy in real life, wielding a crowbar. I'm really hoping that was your bit of "fun" because otherwise you're playing the keyboard gangster you're trying to make me out to be.

[busteroaf]

Sorry, not an ignorant American.

More insults. Figured out why people don't like you yet?

[Tachycardia]

Sorry, not an ignorant American.


Just ignorant in general?

What an amazing social life you must have to spend your day arguing war strategy for an Iphone app.

I pity your penis

[Tachycardia]

More insults. Figured out why people don't like you yet?

I assume he figured that out when his mother asked for an abortion when he was 8

Buyers remorse strikes again

[Meepo]

Just ignorant in general?

What an amazing social life you must have to spend your day arguing war strategy for an Iphone app.

I pity your penis

Shouldn't you be busy shooting school kids? Go play with your guns to make your tiny penis feel bigger.

[MacRicky]

I got mine last night and had a few guild mates get theirs as well.

just have to be patient, but to Gree's credit, they are getting it done

Just got may guild rewards from last 1 hr :o

[Marco_]

Oh gosh, where to start. I'll try and keep this short and sweet. Its hard for me, I know. Yes, the beat them into a bloody pulp could be considered the "target them and leave them in shambles and carry them off on a stretcher." Not how football is played though, or at least it shouldn't be. But, like the normal game of football, most teams don't just give up after they have a lead. There is no guarantee that if the other team makes a comeback, you can continue to score at will. Nothing is a gimmie. Yes, teams will put in their second and third string players. Do they simply run victory formation plays to run out the clock for the last quarter or however long they're in the game? No. They try to score as well.

You didn't quite get the point. My point was that American Football analogies are silly, since "Gree American Football" would be more like a boxing/mixed matrial arts match without "don't hit people who are KO" rule and zero points given for touchdowns.

If you want to use American Football analogies again, guild wars would seem to be like a system where the (only) victory contition would be "most touchdowns scored at the end of the season".

I'd prefer if like for tennis there would be victory conditions per match instead of "keep pounding away until time is up" and only victory conditions at the end of the tournament.



That lead me to say a) I don't want quitters on my team, and b) you never give up until the clock reads 00:00. Also, the team that was winning with 1 second left. Do you think they said "sure, its only one second, what could possibly happen?" That is the kind of thinking I wouldn't want on my team, especially when we have a "ensured" victory. In most cases, one second left and a 3 point lead is a victory... but again, nothing is guaranteed.
With something like a guild war, I would want "the clock reads 00:00" to mean that the match was so evenly balanced that neither side managed to really achieve victory condition over the other, while if a match is very lopsides, it should be "game over" in at most a 10% of the maximum time instead of mindless grinding for the remaining 90% of the time.

I expect that once guild war hits Android, I'll find the lopsides "guild farming" matches more boring than snakeskin farming.
I kind of question the sanity of anyone who would enjoy "guild farming" over a nice close match...

[Eunuchorn]

People still farm snakeskins? That's weird.

[Marco_]

People still farm snakeskins? That's weird.
Yes, we can't all farm chests... :p
Let me make it even more scary: I often make uncommon_lvl11 . Only 20 points of enhancing material! ;)

[busteroaf]

You didn't quite get the point. My point was that American Football analogies are silly, since "Gree American Football" would be more like a boxing/mixed matrial arts match without "don't hit people who are KO" rule and zero points given for touchdowns.

If you want to use American Football analogies again, guild wars would seem to be like a system where the (only) victory contition would be "most touchdowns scored at the end of the season".

I'd prefer if like for tennis there would be victory conditions per match instead of "keep pounding away until time is up" and only victory conditions at the end of the tournament.


With something like a guild war, I would want "the clock reads 00:00" to mean that the match was so evenly balanced that neither side managed to really achieve victory condition over the other, while if a match is very lopsides, it should be "game over" in at most a 10% of the maximum time instead of mindless grinding for the remaining 90% of the time.

I expect that once guild war hits Android, I'll find the lopsides "guild farming" matches more boring than snakeskin farming.
I kind of question the sanity of anyone who would enjoy "guild farming" over a nice close match...

Pretty sure I wasn't comparing the whole guild wars concept to football, just the "you don't give up" because guess what, there isn't a mercy rule. If teams are winning at the end, yes, the victory formation comes into play. If the opponent is winning though and you have the ball, unless you're down by 50 with 10 seconds left, I hope you would continue to play. (or else, like I stated before, I don't want you on my team)

You're also the guy that would be celebrating a war victory when the other guy surrendered. Unknown to you, that sniper on the top of the hill didn't get the message and nails one between your eyes. Oops. That's what you get for celebrating early. You NEVER celebrate the win early.

Also, as far as guild farming goes, I question the sanity of people who want all their games to be close. You've never enjoyed that rush of "man, I just dominated you"? To each his own. Sadly for now, the wars favor people with the domination mentality.

[Eunuchorn]

Yes, we can't all farm chests... :p
Let me make it even more scary: I often make uncommon_lvl11 . Only 20 points of enhancing material! ;)

That still makes more sense than getting no xp in medusa land

[-Solo-]

Didn't know XP was so important after lv100 besides a few gold, and a gem/key every 5-6 levels.

[Eunuchorn]

LvL.300 > All. I'm aiming for 666, personally

[Wolfgangs246]

LvL.300 > All. I'm aiming for 666, personally

Nice round number. I like.

[-Solo-]

Why not 777? You're such a devil.

[Wolfgangs246]

Why not 777? You're such a devil.
I believe you may have answered your own question there. ;)

[White Avenger]

I didn't read the 200 plus replies or most of the arguments.

1. What I would want changed are the guardians. They were worthless in the first war and over powered in the second. I would like them to have the ability to attack other players with one attack per guardian for points. Which would be its only purpose.

A level one guardian would equal a 50 level player.
2 = 60
3 = 70
4 = 80
5 = 90
6 = 100 with 2 star armor
7 = 100 with 3 star
8 = 100 with 4 star
9 = 100 with upper 4 star
10 = 100 with epic

Guild Officers would have the ability to activate them and attack an enemy player with them. If the guardian gets defeated during an attack its gone. Also during activation they pick the 3 elements of the guardian make up. Guardian only have Mono armor.

The higher the guild level the more guardians you have. Each High Commander can only use up to 3 in battle. Sents and Champs can use 4 and GM can use 5.

So if you could have 10 officers in the guild the max guardian amount would be 3 x 7 = 21 (High Commander), 2 x4 = 8 (Sent and Champ) and 5 x 1 for the GM. The guardians do not get the guild bonus attack.

2. Second the fusion boosts would go to the person that killed the enemy Sent the first time around. If a guardian kills the Sent no one gets it.

3. The top point earner in each guild battle earns a fusion boost as long as more than one person on the same guild had 2 people attack.

That's my 2 cents.

Thanks!