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jmeijer
08-29-2013, 06:07 AM
I decided to create a thread where you can ask anything about your economy! What upgrade do you want to do and what path do you follow? Anyway, the forum has a lot of people with a high IPH and some of them enjoy a good economy discussion!

JonHanFord
08-29-2013, 06:21 AM
im planning to upgrade my nc lv1 to lv2 then after that im going.to save money to buy another nc1 then save.money.again, rob rob and rob then upgrade my nc lv1 to lv2. lol

SnortleGrunter
08-29-2013, 06:35 AM
If you have the 30% off upgrade you may find it better to upgrade to lvl 3 before buying 2nd nc.
Thats advice i was given & i intend to follow it :-)

jmeijer
08-29-2013, 06:52 AM
If you have the 30% off upgrade you may find it better to upgrade to lvl 3 before buying 2nd nc.
Thats advice i was given & i intend to follow it :-)I never heard this, but I'm sure this makes sense. I already had 2 NC's at the time that the Striker Minigun (first -30%) came out as a collect-10 grand prize.

kgod
08-29-2013, 08:42 AM
Upgrade nc to lvl 3, buy second nc, or save for ltb? I have no upgrade mods. My iph is 300k. Been waiting for a thread like this thanks jmeijer

bald zeemer
08-29-2013, 08:49 AM
With no upgrade mods you should build your second NC once your first is L2. Wait on LTBs until you have at least 2 L3 NCs.

Muj
08-29-2013, 09:46 AM
I have 17m in the bank and 1 NC building currently, got the -30% upgrade cost item.. Not sure if I should save up for the 92m LTB or buy another NC first?

bald zeemer
08-29-2013, 09:48 AM
Neither. Upgrade the NC that you're building to L3, then buy another. Upgrade that to 3, then start on the LTB game.

ShawnBB
08-29-2013, 01:56 PM
I suspect emcee or trampstamp might jump out and say, "hey kids, good job for creating this thread."

CoN1337
08-29-2013, 02:09 PM
I'm expecting something like "omg not a money thread again" from someone, but who cares. I like that this is up for a fresh discussion.

I got two nc lvl 1 and 92mill in the bank. Now, I'm considering wether or not to buy the ltb. I get a item for it, plus I boost my iph.

On the other hand, I can upgrade both my nc to lvl two for roughly the same prize (got mod). And nc rocks, I usually collect from them three times a day (on a rare occasion four).

The two previous ltbs sucked, imo. 18h and 20h is hard to collect every time. I don't want to make a similar mistake with this ltb, which has 26h output.

My current thought is upgrading nc's. Advice, anyone?

bald zeemer
08-29-2013, 05:17 PM
I'm expecting something like "omg not a money thread again" from someone, but who cares. I like that this is up for a fresh discussion.

I got two nc lvl 1 and 92mill in the bank. Now, I'm considering wether or not to buy the ltb. I get a item for it, plus I boost my iph.

On the other hand, I can upgrade both my nc to lvl two for roughly the same prize (got mod). And nc rocks, I usually collect from them three times a day (on a rare occasion four).

The two previous ltbs sucked, imo. 18h and 20h is hard to collect every time. I don't want to make a similar mistake with this ltb, which has 26h output.

My current thought is upgrading nc's. Advice, anyone?

My advice is don't get wrapped around the axles with collection times. The last 3 LTBs are all phenomenonilly powerful, even with imperfect collection.

candyson
08-29-2013, 06:44 PM
What level should I upgrade brownstones to?

wrestler84
08-29-2013, 10:10 PM
What level should I upgrade brownstones to?
Don't upgrade Lofts and MTs until you can buy a NC

BigMoney
08-29-2013, 10:28 PM
I'm expecting something like "omg not a money thread again" from someone, but who cares. I like that this is up for a fresh discussion.

I got two nc lvl 1 and 92mill in the bank. Now, I'm considering wether or not to buy the ltb. I get a item for it, plus I boost my iph.

On the other hand, I can upgrade both my nc to lvl two for roughly the same prize (got mod). And nc rocks, I usually collect from them three times a day (on a rare occasion four).

The two previous ltbs sucked, imo. 18h and 20h is hard to collect every time. I don't want to make a similar mistake with this ltb, which has 26h output.

My current thought is upgrading nc's. Advice, anyone?

I would upgrade the NCs. You can only get one LTB item, and a 518a/344d melee item isn't anything to write home about. I'm going to assume you have +25% building output bonus. They cost about the same (2 L2 NCs = $93.52mil vs $92.1mil for the LTB).

Building payouts:
2 level 2 NCs: 2 * $656,250 per 6 hours = $1,312,500 per 6 hours = +$145,833.33 IPH
1 level 1 LTB: $1,875,000 per 26 hours = +$72,115.38 IPH

So the NCs will actually add twice as much to your IPH as the LTB would. That extra $73,717.95 per hour will easily accumulate enough to push you farther in future LTBs (although with only two L2 NCs, "farther" at this point means allowing to purchase the next LTB, which I suspect you can't do on your current IPH alone without skipping an LTB to save up enough). With perfect collection, the NCs will give you an additional $1.77mil per day over the LTB, which amounts to $54mil after a month on top of what your hood already produces if it were to have the West Side Gems LTB.

In other words, it is an absolute no-brainer to me to upgrade the NCs. I've been advocating since the Toy Box event (when LTBs were $50-75mil) that you should have at least a $1mil IPH / 2 level 3 NCs before participating in LTBs. That might need to climb higher if LTBs continue to increase in price, but I suspect they won't-- not for at least another LTB, at least.

bald zeemer
08-29-2013, 10:28 PM
I assume there was meant to be a comma after "don't".

BigMoney
08-29-2013, 10:35 PM
I assume there was meant to be a comma after "don't".

He meant don't upgrade lofts and MTs until you can afford NCs, because that is sound advice, and he doesn't want other people improving their IPH. :rolleyes:

candyson
08-29-2013, 10:48 PM
What level should I upgrade brownstones to?


Don't upgrade Lofts and MTs until you can buy a NC
Can someone give me a decent response? I have a level 1 night club and $30 million saved up right now.

reesebutton
08-29-2013, 10:58 PM
Can someone give me a decent response? I have a level 1 night club and $30 million saved up right now.

I'd hold out to get that NC to L2

imo Brownstones can be done as a minor upgrade, while you save to upgrade your NC. They're just supplementary income, a pair of L5 can get you 200-300k a more a day iirc. Something like beachside inns & dominicans.

megar1
08-30-2013, 04:50 AM
whats the point of doing "minor upgrades"?

im at 1mil iph and im not touching anything other than my NC and the current LTB.. Sure I could spend less money on upgrading lofts of something but the IPH of that is so minor compared to building a LTB or a NC upgrade and doing so would just mean im further away from upgrading said LTB or NC... Almost every otherbuilding is redundant at this point

bald zeemer
08-30-2013, 05:28 AM
whats the point of doing "minor upgrades"?

im at 1mil iph and im not touching anything other than my NC and the current LTB.. Sure I could spend less money on upgrading lofts of something but the IPH of that is so minor compared to building a LTB or a NC upgrade and doing so would just mean im further away from upgrading said LTB or NC... Almost every otherbuilding is redundant at this point

As long as you are always upgrading then you're right on the money. If you are sitting idle for extended periods in-between upgrades, however, then you'd be mad not to be doing 'minor' upgrades (I prefer to call them saves, and define them somewhat differently, as I'm a dIPH purist - a relatively uncommon position around these parts).

Muj
08-30-2013, 05:31 AM
Thanks zeemer, also I have a camper at level 13 and I need to boost it's economy, currently at 5k IPH and upgrading a house to level 5, got another house at level 4.

bald zeemer
08-30-2013, 05:37 AM
My camper economics aren't as finely detailed as my main acct plan (probably doing that the wrong way around, TBH, but I simply don't care enough about my camper to do the work), but I think the house/T-shirt/Italian/Ice-cream base for MT/Loft into NC path is pretty much rock-solid.

My camper's main issue is that I'm going to run out of decent save upgrade buildings pretty soon. I'm thinking of doing Pawns and Gun Stores, but they become redundant very quickly.

noamlin
08-30-2013, 05:46 AM
you should consider real life collecting and of course robs loses.
i mean:
a level 2 NC yields $58,333 per hour (i subtracted the income of the lvl1), but usually you will pick it only 3 times a day, so actually it is like it yields 43,750 per hour. two NCs yield 87,500.
the LTB gives you 57,692 per hour, as long as you collect it once a day (once every 26 hours).
now the difference is quite big.
but let's calculate robbing:
you have got a chance to time yourself and collect the LTB right on time (quite easily) while collecting every 6 hours the NCs guarantees that you'll eventually get robbed. let's say once every 4 collections, and each rob reduces the income by 2/3. this means that NCs actually yields you (87,500*3+87,500/3)/4 = $72,916 per hour.
still the difference is much bigger and worthier than the item you will get for the LTB lvl 1...

maybe you play different then i suggested and the above calculations aren't accurate for you, but in general the NCs will be worth around $1,752,000 a day

BigMoney
08-30-2013, 06:23 AM
you should consider real life collecting and of course robs loses.
i mean:
a level 2 NC yields $58,333 per hour (i subtracted the income of the lvl1), but usually you will pick it only 3 times a day, so actually it is like it yields 43,750 per hour. two NCs yield 87,500.
the LTB gives you 57,692 per hour, as long as you collect it once a day (once every 26 hours).
now the difference is quite big.
but let's calculate robbing:
you have got a chance to time yourself and collect the LTB right on time (quite easily) while collecting every 6 hours the NCs guarantees that you'll eventually get robbed. let's say once every 4 collections, and each rob reduces the income by 2/3. this means that NCs actually yields you (87,500*3+87,500/3)/4 = $72,916 per hour.
still the difference is much bigger and worthier than the item you will get for the LTB lvl 1...

maybe you play different then i suggested and the above calculations aren't accurate for you, but in general the NCs will be worth around $1,752,000 a day

A rob leaves you with 40% of the building payout, I believe. And it's pretty silly to make an assumption like someone will only collect NCs 3 times per day (2.4 if you assume it will get robbed overnight), but then assume that someone will collect on the West Side Gems Store without fail. I collect NCs 4x per day, and have my 6/12/18/24/48s synced so that I only really need to check my hood 4 times per day. The 26 hour cycle is a nightmare, on the other hand, since although I collect my 24 hours at a convenient time for me in the evening when I'm always home, the 26 hour building will migrate forward two hours each day from the last time I collected it. This makes it a guarantee that every 8-9 days or so, I'm going to have to leave it overnight while I sleep, at which point it will almost assuredly be robbed. Further, the +2 hours later collection is a huge hassle for me personally, since although I can collect 6/12s/etc at convenient times, it's a guarantee that the 26-hour will get robbed at some point during the day when I'm busy doing something at work or something. There's no way I can collect it throughout the day, and I suspect many people (even the most dedicated CC addicts) are the same way.

Point being, perfect NC collection is far easier to manage than perfect 26hr collection. So I disagree with your premise right from the start.

CoN1337
08-30-2013, 06:52 AM
I would upgrade the NCs. You can only get one LTB item, and a 518a/344d melee item isn't anything to write home about. I'm going to assume you have +25% building output bonus. They cost about the same (2 L2 NCs = $93.52mil vs $92.1mil for the LTB).

Building payouts:
2 level 2 NCs: 2 * $656,250 per 6 hours = $1,312,500 per 6 hours = +$145,833.33 IPH
1 level 1 LTB: $1,875,000 per 26 hours = +$72,115.38 IPH

So the NCs will actually add twice as much to your IPH as the LTB would. That extra $73,717.95 per hour will easily accumulate enough to push you farther in future LTBs (although with only two L2 NCs, "farther" at this point means allowing to purchase the next LTB, which I suspect you can't do on your current IPH alone without skipping an LTB to save up enough). With perfect collection, the NCs will give you an additional $1.77mil per day over the LTB, which amounts to $54mil after a month on top of what your hood already produces if it were to have the West Side Gems LTB.

In other words, it is an absolute no-brainer to me to upgrade the NCs. I've been advocating since the Toy Box event (when LTBs were $50-75mil) that you should have at least a $1mil IPH / 2 level 3 NCs before participating in LTBs. That might need to climb higher if LTBs continue to increase in price, but I suspect they won't-- not for at least another LTB, at least.

First of all, thanks for a good reply. I like your "rule of thumbs" regarding 1mil iph before ltb's. Simple as that. Though I guess it varies still, from person to person. I rob alot so my iph is kind of alot higher than what shows in my profile.

I did the calculations yesterday too, couldn't afford to waste a day of upgrade. I came to the same conclusion as you and started a nc upgrade. But I'm nevertheless thankful for your reply as it made me feel my decision was correct. Thumbs up, BigMoney!

AppleMacGuy
08-30-2013, 07:03 AM
I got two nc lvl 1 and 92mill in the bank. Now, I'm considering wether or not to buy the ltb. I get a item for it, plus I boost my iph.

IMO, you should _always_ give priority to the LTBs as long as the collection times do not suck since long term they offer the shortest upgrade times and the best IPH. The current one is a good one as it has a small footprint but not ideal collection schedule, but good enough. Plus, once they're gone, they're gone.

mxz
08-30-2013, 07:10 AM
IMO, you should _always_ give priority to the LTBs as long as the collection times do not suck since long term they offer the shortest upgrade times and the best IPH. The current one is a good one as it has a small footprint but not ideal collection schedule, but good enough. Plus, once they're gone, they're gone.People gripe about the 26hr time but, assuming you sleep 8 hours a night on a rigid schedule, that's only 1 robbery to every 8 clean collections. 89% collections isn't bad at all for a 4x4 beast.

megar1
08-30-2013, 07:54 AM
As long as you are always upgrading then you're right on the money. If you are sitting idle for extended periods in-between upgrades, however, then you'd be mad not to be doing 'minor' upgrades (I prefer to call them saves, and define them somewhat differently, as I'm a dIPH purist - a relatively uncommon position around these parts).

Im not upgrading all of the time, that was my point..Im saving for the big iph changers.. Mainly a upgrade on either of my NC or build/upgrade a LTB. The question was why should I be doing minor upgrades? If i spend a couple of mil here and there on lofts or some 24h building wouldnt that just mean that the big upgrades gets further away? What is the point of spending money on the other buildings if their impact on my IPH is getting smaller and smaller? Also what do you mean by dIPH?

mxz
08-30-2013, 08:16 AM
Im not upgrading all of the time, that was my point..Im saving for the big iph changers.. Mainly a upgrade on either of my NC or build/upgrade a LTB. The question was why should I be doing minor upgrades? If i spend a couple of mil here and there on lofts or some 24h building wouldnt that just mean that the big upgrades gets further away? What is the point of spending money on the other buildings if their impact on my IPH is getting smaller and smaller? Also what do you mean by dIPH?If you're upgrading decorations (any non-LTB that contributes <2% of your daily income) you're just using time/money. I'd rather have the idle upgrade in case I need it than bump my Upscales just to have a higher number.

We have good buildings besides the NC, now, and econ nerds should focus on them.

bald zeemer
08-30-2013, 08:17 AM
I'll start on the dIPH question then explain my approach.

dIPH - or more accurately dIPH/t is a measure of how much an upgrade will boost your iph per hour of upgrade time.
I rank all remaining upgrades according to this metric, and have as marginal information the total cost, time, and net effect on my holdings (ie, cost - iph*upgrade time). This last figure shows if an upgrade is a 'save' upgrade or not.

The aim is to complete the highest ranked available upgrade. Lets say it's a 7-8 upgrade on the Gem Store, costing 3335539586 (unmodified). I currently have 2bn on hand. I need to save an addition 1.3-odd bn for the upgrade. So I go down the list, selecting the highest ranked upgrade(s) that will save me that amount of money. So it might be an upgrade that is a 700m save and another that is a 600m save. At the end of it, I have the cash for my intended upgrade, and my save upgrades have provided the greatest possible boost to my iph.

Yes, I could upgrade nothing at all, but given the sheer cost of the best upgrades the saving time is extensive, and you're throwing away a large quantity of lower (but not bad) quality upgrades.

Or, to put it another way: Time available upgrades is limited by gold (as the only way to make up upgrade time is to rush-finish with gold). Cost of upgrades is limited by in-game cash. As everybody knows in-game cash can be acquired if needed (ie, by robbing and saving). For almost everyone gold is a finite resource, and best put directly towards war-fighting and stat-boosting. Therefore one should maximise efficiency of upgrade time at the expense of in-game cash.

Uddin22
08-30-2013, 08:31 AM
When do you guys think i should buy my first NC?

I have an IPH of 55k and my main building are a lvl 6 and 7 MT and a lvl 3 loft as well as another thats currently upgrading to lvl 4

mxz
08-30-2013, 08:32 AM
$100K is the commonly suggested IPH for the NC save. $80K is probably the minimum.

Mack The Knife
08-30-2013, 10:48 AM
I'll start on the dIPH question then explain my approach.

dIPH - or more accurately dIPH/t is a measure of how much an upgrade will boost your iph per hour of upgrade time.
I rank all remaining upgrades according to this metric, and have as marginal information the total cost, time, and net effect on my holdings (ie, cost - iph*upgrade time). This last figure shows if an upgrade is a 'save' upgrade or not.

The aim is to complete the highest ranked available upgrade. Lets say it's a 7-8 upgrade on the Gem Store, costing 3335539586 (unmodified). I currently have 2bn on hand. I need to save an addition 1.3-odd bn for the upgrade. So I go down the list, selecting the highest ranked upgrade(s) that will save me that amount of money. So it might be an upgrade that is a 700m save and another that is a 600m save. At the end of it, I have the cash for my intended upgrade, and my save upgrades have provided the greatest possible boost to my iph.

Yes, I could upgrade nothing at all, but given the sheer cost of the best upgrades the saving time is extensive, and you're throwing away a large quantity of lower (but not bad) quality upgrades.

Or, to put it another way: Time available upgrades is limited by gold (as the only way to make up upgrade time is to rush-finish with gold). Cost of upgrades is limited by in-game cash. As everybody knows in-game cash can be acquired if needed (ie, by robbing and saving). For almost everyone gold is a finite resource, and best put directly towards war-fighting and stat-boosting. Therefore one should maximise efficiency of upgrade time at the expense of in-game cash.

I wonder if there's a college course titled the Economics of Crime City that I can take.

Or at least an extensive youtube tutorial for the hood planner....is anyone on that?

ajd
08-30-2013, 01:14 PM
My camper economics aren't as finely detailed as my main acct plan (probably doing that the wrong way around, TBH, but I simply don't care enough about my camper to do the work), but I think the house/T-shirt/Italian/Ice-cream base for MT/Loft into NC path is pretty much rock-solid.

My camper's main issue is that I'm going to run out of decent save upgrade buildings pretty soon. I'm thinking of doing Pawns and Gun Stores, but they become redundant very quickly.

Do you agree that you should build Movie Theaters and Lofts and then leave them at Level 1 until such time as you can build Nightclubs?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

mxz
08-30-2013, 01:22 PM
Do you agree that you should build Movie Theaters and Lofts and then leave them at Level 1 until such time as you can build Nightclubs?

Thanks in advance for the advice.What? No. MT 7's and Loft 5's before NCs, minimally.

ajd
08-30-2013, 03:02 PM
What? No. MT 7's and Loft 5's before NCs, minimally.

Thanks. I've got two L1 MTs and I'm about to plop down my first Loft, and I'm a loooooong way from being able to afford a Nightclub.

ShawnBB
08-30-2013, 03:09 PM
Thanks. I've got two L1 MTs and I'm about to plop down my first Loft, and I'm a loooooong way from being able to afford a Nightclub.

Up MT to 4 before building loft, UP loft to 2 before building a second.
By the time you can afford a NC, the LTB's quality probably gonna be close to NC I guess

wrestler84
08-30-2013, 03:33 PM
When I got my first NC I had 2 lvl5 MTs 1 lvl4 loft and 1lvl6 loft but I robbed a guy for like $25mil

mxz
08-30-2013, 03:36 PM
Up MT to 4 before building loft, UP loft to 2 before building a second.
By the time you can afford a NC, the LTB's quality probably gonna be close to NC I guessLoft 3 before building the second if you've got the -30% off modifier.

Beardface
08-31-2013, 11:36 AM
The hood planner doc really helped lay out what to upgrade next and why. Instead of doing my 2nd nc or the ltb I'm going with the lvl 3 nc. -30% upgrade cost makes it really worth it for ROI in comparison to building a new one. So from 29k iph which is lvl 1 to 175k iph for a lvl 3 for not quite twice the price is a no brainer imo at 6x the income of a lvl 1 nc.

ajd
08-31-2013, 01:07 PM
Up MT to 4 before building loft, UP loft to 2 before building a second.
By the time you can afford a NC, the LTB's quality probably gonna be close to NC I guess

Excellent. I appreciate the advice.

The_
08-31-2013, 01:09 PM
there seems to be a lot of new events which keep everyone excited.

jmeijer
09-01-2013, 04:25 PM
Up MT to 4 before building loft, UP loft to 2 before building a second.
By the time you can afford a NC, the LTB's quality probably gonna be close to NC I guessI agree with you.

IMO, the NC should stay the strongest building in the game. I think that there will be an even better building soon. Only difference is the build & upgrade costs..

lanskyprotege
09-24-2014, 11:30 AM
I'm currently a level 32 mobster who camped for several months and is now starting to rob and upgrade buildings. My current IPH is 197k. Buildings of note are two MT's at level 8, 2 Lofts at levels 5 and 6, 2 killer condos at level 1, and 1 Diamond Grillz at level 1.

I currently have 88 million in the bank and am wondering if I should purchase a second diamond grillz (since it seems to be the highest IPH building of all and a good long term investment) or buy 2 NC's since their ROI is slightly higher (although i need to collect 4 times a day without robbery)

Any advice?

Weasel
09-24-2014, 11:55 AM
Diamond Grillz. In my mind there's not even a debate.

P.S. Nice necro.

Vile Lynn
09-24-2014, 12:02 PM
I agree with Weasel, definitly get the 2nd LEB.

NCs are so 2012.

Da Don
09-24-2014, 12:07 PM
Defo go for the LTB... Better pay out, better collection times.... And NC's will always be available...

And since u only have 6 post, well done on searching/necroing an old thread!

lanskyprotege
09-24-2014, 12:23 PM
Thanks for the advice and the props everyone! I will invest in a second Diamond Grillz. (and as a bonus its much easier to collect on a timely basis)

TxTireMan
09-24-2014, 02:21 PM
Always do labs. Everything else takes tooooo long

BIGBOY
09-25-2014, 08:25 AM
how can I get my IPH up very quick???

Mr Moe
09-25-2014, 08:59 AM
I have 60m+ Iph and I have my Ncs at 2 and 5... its not the best buildings if you have a life outside this game. LTBs are the way to go..

The Hammr
09-25-2014, 08:25 PM
how can I get my IPH up very quick???
Go back and read this entire thread. It's already been explained very clearly