Guild War Rewards

[Eunuchorn]

Some variety would be nice. Why all the combustion+, seriously

Question:
Does each rank earn all the rewards from their rank down, like the other games?
Hopefully the answer is Yes, & the guild master then has to divvy them out as they see fit to his/her guild.
As it stands we have several hundred players all getting the same fricken gear, & IT'S NOT EVEN ANYTHING ALL THAT UNIQUE

Better reward options:
#1: +1 Max EE (gets all following rewards)
#2: +1 Max AE(gets all following rewards)
#3: +3Armor Slots(gets all following rewards)
#4: +2 Armor Slots(gets all following rewards)
#5: +1 Armor slot
Etc
New capes
Faster AE/EE recharge
#1: +1% Diamond Element damage
#2: 50 Million Gold
#3: 25 Million Gold

I could go on & on. These off the top of my head ideas are far more in line w/ the other Gree games. There are unlimited number of NON-ARMOR, non-game breaking mechanics that can be uniquely adjusted. Seriously, diversity please.

[Ashnagarr]

Black Medals for everyone ;) (small little bug) - but how do you attack another guild? Or is that still a preview and the actual war has not started?

[Then000bster]

Yeah, the guild wars isn't working for me either. It says that the guild I'm in is "Out of guardians"... Lol! We have 55/70 guardians >.> I don't think that's anywhere near "OUT". Please resolve the issue soon.

[Ashnagarr]

I think it refers to the fact that you have to "deploy" a guardian - to make it an active defender (this consumes the guardian).

According to the help it is possible to "declare war" to another guild, however, with the guild search vanished since the last update, I don't really know how. I looked up guilds via my friend list, but have no option to declare anything. Can only the guild leader do that? Or do the guilds need to be close to each other (level/member-wise)?

Questions everywhere ^^

[Ashnagarr]

Ok, I think I clicked every available button ... guess only guild ranks above high commander can initiate a battle, or the "War is coming" headline means that it has either not yet started (though it is strange that the timer is already running) or is bugged.

[Musketeer]

Black Medals for everyone ;) (small little bug) - but how do you attack another guild? Or is that still a preview and the actual war has not started?

See the timer under the Title War of the Heavens? That's how long it is until the War starts. It did say it started on 16th August if you read the pop up banner.

As for the rewards, OK if your Guild is going to be in the top 25, not really worth much effort if it won't be. I'm sure the leaders will shake to the top very quickly.

[sk8kidamh]

All information we've received indicates that guild wars will last three days. This timer is for four days.

I would wager that guild wars will really start in 24 hours. They're just giving us a heads up, as recruitment is closed once a war starts.

[Valdamos]

The help says wars last 3 days, yet there's a 4 day timer.

I'm assuming that means it starts in 4 days.

[Sonneth]

guild wars are not on for another 4 days..

[Ashnagarr]

Ok, makes sense. Thanks for the explanation :)

[Eunuchorn]

All information we've received indicates that guild wars will last three days. This timer is for four days.

I would wager that guild wars will really start in 24 hours. They're just giving us a heads up, as recruitment is closed once a war starts.

Your logic is sound, but the banner says Aug.16

[Musketeer]

everything 'Chorn wrote

Well people were saying that the Guild War wasn't going to interest everyone, and the current rewards offered seem to bear them out.

I'll be interested to see how the War goes and how many active Guilds there are, butI expect my Guild to be somewhere in the 26-100 range by the end regardless, and I'm not sure I even care about the rewards. DPC keys that will give you crap, gems that you can use to open DPCs to give you more crap, and a couple of armors that might be useful if you don't have something better already. I'd rather have it all in Fusion stones so I can level up the armors I have with the least tedium.


It will eventually be interesting to see how the result of this war effect future wars.

[konofo]

Some variety would be nice. Why all the combustion+, seriously
Amen to that.



Question:
Does each rank earn all the rewards from their rank down, like the other games?
Hopefully the answer is Yes, & the guild master then has to divvy them out as they see fit to his/her guild.
As it stands we have several hundred players all getting the same fricken gear, & IT'S NOT EVEN ANYTHING ALL THAT UNIQUE

The UI explicitly says that "ALL members in each ranked guild receive items for their medal/ribbon."


Better reward options:
#1: +1 Max EE (gets all following rewards)
#2: +1 Max AE(gets all following rewards)
#3: +3Armor Slots(gets all following rewards)
#4: +2 Armor Slots(gets all following rewards)
#5: +1 Armor slot
Etc
New capes
Faster AE/EE recharge
#1: +1% Diamond Element damage
#2: 50 Million Gold
#3: 25 Million Gold

I could go on & on. These off the top of my head ideas are far more in line w/ the other Gree games. There are unlimited number of NON-ARMOR, non-game breaking mechanics that can be uniquely adjusted. Seriously, diversity please.
I really did expect to see stat-capes come out of this - it's one way to reward the top performers without forcing them into specific armor lineups. Perhaps the other angles of progression (Max EE/AE, regen time, etc.) will come over time. Perhaps they just don't have the ability to grant those here yet.

[Revelate]

Amen to that.
I really did expect to see stat-capes come out of this - it's one way to reward the top performers without forcing them into specific armor lineups. Perhaps the other angles of progression (Max EE/AE, regen time, etc.) will come over time. Perhaps they just don't have the ability to grant those here yet.

It's orders of magnitude harder and more risk prone to refactor an existing code base than starting from scratch.

Working within the established game and design, this was something they could roll out now; some of the other changes might take months even. Things like stat capes or regen time or Max EE/AE are a lot harder to code, test, and implement, in and above the rest of the development time which almost assuredly is focused on guild wars.

There may be opportunities for them to change the reward structure in time, but we would've been getting GW in December or later quite likely if that were the case.

I'm not a huge fan of some of the choices Gree makes with this game, but this particular decision; get new content out sooner rather than later, and then if it (rewards) needs tweaking later, go do it later, is analogous to the ones I have to make in my own job right now. Sometimes it just needs to be done that way.

[Iamofownage]

I think the rewards are perfect!

[Bresson]

Guys keep in mind that this forum is not representative at all of the player base.

For the mast majority of players, a + Combustion Armor will be their best armor by far and for some a Sky Guardian + as well for top 100.

[Musketeer]

Guys keep in mind that this forum is not representative at all of the player base.

For the mast majority of players, a + Combustion Armor will be their best armor by far and for some a Sky Guardian + as well for top 100.

I suspect the vast majority of players won't get a Combustion+ or Sky Guardian + out of this War.

[Eunuchorn]

My point was more why every single slot get the same armor. So many useful ***+ armor they could give away. Top guild could get aegis+, 2 combustion, 3 IDGAF but for 500 combust+ to hit the arena is just stupid

[Sakino]

I think thore rewards are just fine, if not so much high. Will totally hate the epic energy and other things variations. This will totally break out the game mechanics. At least, stats capes or little bonusses, but dont touch the fkin boss energy.


My point was more why every single slot get the same armor. So many useful ***+ armor they could give away. Top guild could get aegis+, 2 combustion, 3 IDGAF but for 500 combust+ to hit the arena is just stupid
No, i dont really like the fact that you can choose what to give to who you think. I think is simple not fair for all my fellow guys. The same to everyone, this is better.

[Eunuchorn]

I think thore rewards are just fine, if not so much high. Will totally hate the epic energy and other things variations. This will totally break out the game mechanics. At least, stats capes or little bonusses, but dont touch the fkin boss energy.
No, i dont really like the fact that you can choose what to give to who you think. I think is simple not fair for all my fellow guys. The same to everyone, this is better.


Dude, how many kills do you get to? I pay gems every week to get to 60. If my guild is on top 3 or even 10, having a recharge to 11 or slightly less recharge time won't do anything to anyone but those who get it. It's a reward of slightly less money for me every week, & negligible at that.

As for spreading out the rewards as GM sees fit, that's ON TOP of each member receiving their Rank Set. The other games, the #1 guild gets every reward from every rank. #2 gets everything but #1. & down the line.
If K&D did that I would have X amount comb+, & Skyguards to hand out to either ppl that need them, or would enhance w/ them (SG reg).
It astounds me that the idea of a fair & benevolent GM doesn't even occur to you as an option, much less play favorites at the risk of driving players out of the guild.

Given, I'm sure most guilds aren't as tight knit as mine, or as selfless as I am, & the fact my weakest player is my KA GM plays a part; & even then all these aside, we would have a strict vote & round table discussion as to whom the extra armors would be given to.

See you all on the field.

[BileJAR]

lol. RR is going to pretty much dominate. 1,000 bucks thrown at GREE for gems weekly.

You can take that as a compliment or not. :)

[Sakino]

Hmm.. Just lets see... I think i will not even get a chanche to battle versus you, eunuchorn... Good luck to RR, and call me if you need this 72 hours supply of coffe! I already said you.

[cubey]

For those of us playing Android, can someone post the actual list of rewards please?

[QuantumP 86]

The difference between second place and tenth is 20 gems and ONE dark prince chest key. That is ridiculous and should be fixed immediately.

[D3athShade]

Eunichorn, it's useless to post ideas =/ GREEd never listens so why now?

[Eunuchorn]

The difference between second place and tenth is 20 gems and ONE dark prince chest key. That is ridiculous and should be fixed immediately.

So true.

Actually Gree implemented 100% of my ideas on the new Guild UI layout

[KOA]

Completely agree. In all other Gree games, everyone thrives to do as well as possible in guild wars. The rewards in this game hardly make it seem worthwhile. I do like that the top rewards do not necessarily give that guild a significant advantage in future wars; however, they could at the very least diversify them.

I would also like to point out that I believe every member in the guild receives all the bonuses and you would not simply hand them out.

[KOA]

Definitely also agree with an all-elemental boost. The kal armors were originally thought to be the strongest in the game and have now become the weakest due to guild elemental bonuses.

[Lunasea]

I think a temporary stat boost can be a good idea too ; lets say a 30% stat boost for the Guild whole week till the next Guild war ; Stats boost which cannot be used in Guild wars but can be used in Arena and Epic Bosses

[D3athShade]

I think a temporary stat boost can be a good idea too ; lets say a 30% stat boost for the Guild whole week till the next Guild war ; Stats boost which cannot be used in Guild wars but can be used in Arena and Epic Bosses

Sure! Give the gem spenders even more advance... Arena realy? Even Epic boss would get them in high rankings.
Free 2 play? Yes. Pay 2 win: double yes...

[QuantumP 86]

I think a temporary stat boost can be a good idea too ; lets say a 30% stat boost for the Guild whole week till the next Guild war ; Stats boost which cannot be used in Guild wars but can be used in Arena and Epic Bosses

I'd much more advocate a permanent 3% increase to attack or a 5% to a certain element.

[Lunasea]

I'd much more advocate a permanent 3% increase to attack or a 5% to a certain element.

LOL then a particular Guild would dominate if that happens as how are the other guilds going to compete if that win like 5 Guild war in a row .... dun think the other GMs would like that ??

[Thatzme]

LOL then a particular Guild would dominate if that happens as how are the other guilds going to compete if that win like 5 Guild war in a row .... dun think the other GMs would like that ??

But that is what's happening in KA. The top guild just gets more op and no one can catch up

[Lunasea]

Sure! Give the gem spenders even more advance... Arena realy? Even Epic boss would get them in high rankings.
Free 2 play? Yes. Pay 2 win: double yes...

Its a temporary boost of one week ... not a permanent one .... I do advocate that players with good armors have some advantages in Arena especially .... as it is now even a new player who is willing to spend a lot of gems can get a high ranking in Arena .... Maybe not a 30% .... 5 to 10 % or 3 to 5% temporary boost for the week ???
At least its a practical reward and it doesn't unbalance the game mechanics

[Lunasea]

But that is what's happening in KA. The top guild just gets more op and no one can catch up

that's why a temporary boost would be a better idea till the next winner of the Guild War gets the said boost ..... definitely not a permanent boost whatever the % is ....
maybe temporary 3-5 % one week stat/element boost would be more logical or even lesser in order not to unbalance the game

[Hirro]

My suggestion(s) in the top rank would be:

1. Temporary boost in attack or defense or both during the Guild War Events.
2. Health potion(s) are nice to have
3. Gold as mention by the OP would be nice too but it should be deposited directly in the Guild bank or distributed among Guild members
4. Temporary boost in recharge time in EE or AE
5. Fusion armor boost to any elements or an element for BKL+
6. 1 powerful armor only in rank #1 or #1 to #3 and no other armor(s) in the lower rank. As most K&D player knows there will be always new strong armor being released every week ! Sorry for being selfish but handing out new powerful armors to new players is kind of unfair, I think. I started playing K&D with Basic Fire armor, I guess all of us =) and work my self to get some 3*** and 4**** since then.

ETC.

[Lord Ash]

I agree way too many combustion+ are going to be given out as well as a lot of the new epic... 2nd place and 10th should not be close in rewards at all

I can't wait for this to start though!

[King Mark]

I would have to say Gree is doing fine in this first upcoming K&D Guild Wars.

As for the prizes, I may have to differ with some posters who aren't satisfied with it. Why? Because I think Gree is trying to balance things out first for this GW. How? By not giving huge gap in prizes especially for the top 10 guilds and others. This means more money and competition as Gree rolls out GW in K&D. You don't want this GW be monopolized by some guilds already early on right?

Let guilds battle it out for prizes, get stronger, giving the top 1 some advantage, but not too far behind the top 2-10 or so and possibly dethroning them. I call that a good competition as Gree is doing in K&D now. The top guilds would be threatened, would have to spend more if the competition is close IMO. You and "some" of your members may disagree with this, but we don't represent the entire population of K&D. So if you honestly think that Gree would give in to your demands, good luck with that =) And don't bring how KA is with their GW, this is K&D after all and I'm sure they've learned, learning and have experimented on how to roll out things here from other games.

Anyway, just my 2 cents supporting Gree for the good job their doing so far in K&D ^^

Cheers!

[King Mark]

Actually Gree implemented 100% of my ideas on the new Guild UI layout

Just read this. I don't mean to be rude or anything, but to claim Gree "got & implemented all your ideas 100%" in this matter is just too much IMHO... Gree has a team of extremely talented designers and all. I'm 101% sure they had these things in mind way ahead than any of us here, LOL! Gree is a Japanese company with multi-million dollars asset, they know what they're doing ^^

[Thatzme]

@King Mark

As much as I would like to find your posts constructive, can't help but think you have certain prejudices towards some people and you have a tendency to put urself on a pedestal. I guess that's what kings do.

[King Mark]

@King Mark

As much as I would like to find your posts constructive, can't help but think you have certain prejudices towards some people and you have a tendency to put urself on a pedestal. I guess that's what kings do.

@Thatzme

Thanks for trying to find my posts constructive at least. And hey, you're free to interpret it the way you want, coz Thatzyou =) However, don't push those "supposedly prejudice posts" I have directed towards anyone on me.

On topic, I wonder if they're giving these prizes weekly, twice a week or monthly?

[Eunuchorn]

King Mark, I find every one of your posts painful to read. I'm baffled by how they always end w/ a statement brown-nosing Gree as if they're some Godlike entity. You pick one point in a large post & tangent on it in the totally wrong direction. No one is demanding anything of Gree, & no one isn't saying certain bonuses *could* end up being OP. EVERY OTHER Gree game has been like this, not just KA. K&D has been a slightly different type of game from the start, & they have always been attempting to adjust certain aspects to be better than its predecessors.

You come into all my threads & attack me by saying how I'm this that & the other, as you spout ignorance & put words in my mouth, all signs of basic lack of understanding of what you're reading.

ps. I have had more than a few back & forth correspondences w/ wise one, not to mention opening many tickets w/ suggestions of how to improve the guild interface. Please stop posting in my threads.

[Bearsuo]

Shame on you, unicorn

You missed "Bonus to fusing EP"
1% fewer snakeskins to farm every week!

[King Mark]

@Eunuchorn

Have you actually checked ALL your previous posts and how you insulted other forumers here? To be honest with you, it's more disgusting to see those insulting posts than mine actually. But I tried I to be as civil and decent as possible in my exchanges of posts with you still.

Also, you call those remarks I've made about being mindful of calling other people names, being perceived as arrogant, etc. attacks? I think you're the one who got it all wrong. Talking about double-standards & hypocrisy. You come commenting in my threads as well. Go commenting on other people's thread with insults, attacks & whatnot. Then here you are telling me to not post in your threads? Last time I've checked, this is Gree's forum anyone is free to post/reply, so if I see it fit to post/reply, I would ^^

FYI: Exchanges of PMs, suggestions to WiseOne DOES NOT equate to Gree "taking/implementing your ideas 100%". How do we know these talented people working in Gree never had "your so called ideas"? Some MODESTY please & don't think too highly of yourself. As for WiseOne's position, yes, he can take suggestions and all because he's K&D's Administrator. However, he isn't one of the developers. Unless he comes here and confirms your "claims", then my comment on your claim stands.

Cheers again!

[Climax]

@Eunuchorn

Have you actually checked ALL your previous posts and how you insulted other forumers here? To be honest with you, it's more disgusting to see those insulting posts than mine actually. But I tried I to be as civil and decent as possible in my exchanges of posts with you still.

Also, you call those remarks I've made about being mindful of calling other people names, being perceived as arrogant, etc. attacks? I think you're the one who got it all wrong. Talking about double-standards & hypocrisy. You come commenting in my threads as well. Go commenting on other people's thread with insults, attacks & whatnot. Then here you are telling me to not post in your threads? Last time I've checked, this is Gree's forum anyone is free to post/reply, so if I see it fit to post/reply, I would ^^

FYI: Exchanges of PMs, suggestions to WiseOne DOES NOT equate to Gree "taking/implementing your ideas 100%". How do we know these talented people working in Gree never had "your so called ideas"? Some MODESTY please & don't think too highly of yourself. As for WiseOne's position, yes, he can take suggestions and all because he's K&D's Administrator. However, he isn't one of the developers. Unless he comes here and confirms your "claims", then my comment on your claim stands.

Cheers again!

Do you want a lollypop now?

[Eunuchorn]

Seriously Mark, how old are you?

[Climax]

Seriously Mark, how old are you?

That's exactly what I meant with my comment before ^^

[Matti1992]

I think the quality of the rewards is really good, but like a few people said it would have been nice if they mixed up a little and added a bit more variety to the armors you get.

[Lord Ash]

Aww WAR looming... can't you just feel all the love in the air?

See u all in the field where we will settle this

[iH8t2lose2]

As somebody said earlier, can somebody please post what the rewards are for the people on Android?

[Azraelthevengeful]

@Eunuchorn

Have you actually checked ALL your previous posts and how you insulted other forumers here? To be honest with you, it's more disgusting to see those insulting posts than mine actually. But I tried I to be as civil and decent as possible in my exchanges of posts with you still.

Also, you call those remarks I've made about being mindful of calling other people names, being perceived as arrogant, etc. attacks? I think you're the one who got it all wrong. Talking about double-standards & hypocrisy. You come commenting in my threads as well. Go commenting on other people's thread with insults, attacks & whatnot. Then here you are telling me to not post in your threads? Last time I've checked, this is Gree's forum anyone is free to post/reply, so if I see it fit to post/reply, I would ^^

FYI: Exchanges of PMs, suggestions to WiseOne DOES NOT equate to Gree "taking/implementing your ideas 100%". How do we know these talented people working in Gree never had "your so called ideas"? Some MODESTY please & don't think too highly of yourself. As for WiseOne's position, yes, he can take suggestions and all because he's K&D's Administrator. However, he isn't one of the developers. Unless he comes here and confirms your "claims", then my comment on your claim stands.

Cheers again!

I agree completely with King Mark. It's obviously that the rewards will keep the Guild Wars even for a while.

As for Eunuchorn's belief that Gree implemented his idea's 100%, really? 'Post hoc ergo proctor hoc'

I remember a few months ago Eunuchorn used to have these ridiculous links in his sigs. He was pullling his usual child inneed of a diaper change act onone of the threads, so i decided to jump in and point out exactly how his links were ridiculous, chomsky-esque nonsense that had long since being discredited (even by its own proponents). I also invited him to PM me if he wanted to argue his point. He never responded, and shortly after, his sig was changed.

Using the principle of Post hoc ergo proctor hoc, which Eunuchorn uses to declare Gree adapted his ideas 100%, I am now declaring that Eunuchorn changed his obnoxious sig, and his beliefs, after he realised the validity of my argument and accepted his own place in this 'Leviathon' nightmare,throwing away the 'Nietzsche for Dummies' book that had so shaped his life up to that point.

On a serious note, King Mark & Bearsuo are myfavorite posters here, always balanced, fair and analytical.

[Angel of Death]

Aww WAR looming... can't you just feel all the love in the air?

See u all in the field where we will settle this

Word war before guild wars, now I'm excited to see them battle it out at guild wars... Just to warn you though, I will be the angel that will bring death to your knights and wreak havoc to your castles, I will show no mercy! :) Peace out yo! This is just a game, have a life will you? Hahahahahaha

[NickkyDC]

I feel the intensity, Quite interesting, but regardless, In my personal opinion the reward system, looks
good, Lets face it the combustion armor set is fantastic, but I dont think too overpowered, while adding the epic armor set is a great idea. I think if they had thrown in anything along the lines of aegis+ or ect, they may have been giving those people too much of a good thing. the way it stands, The winning guilds are going to have added benefit next war, should this epic armor not be available else wise. All in all though, it motivates me and my guild members to train and be better to get to the top, all the while I know we will all enjoy any rewards obtained and simply enjoy the new feature. This game is about fun. If your not having fun maybe youve lost sight of why you are playing and should reconsider. otherwise, the fighting is pointless. It dosent matter if his suggestions were 100% implemented or not. Enjoy the game, and do your best. I look forward to seeing everyone on the battle field, im shooting for top 100!

[overcire]

if some of you ios users could post screenies of the rewards for us android users that would be grand. Something to drool over while I pour my hard earned gold and materials into my forever hungry guild.

[NickkyDC]

if some of you ios users could post screenies of the rewards for us android users that would be grand. Something to drool over while I pour my hard earned gold and materials into my forever hungry guild.

Ill work on uploading the prizes for 1-100 in a minute, but there is a new epic armor for the first 25 places i believe!

[BethMo]

if some of you ios users could post screenies of the rewards for us android users that would be grand. Something to drool over while I pour my hard earned gold and materials into my forever hungry guild.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130812234128/knightsanddragons/images/thumb/a/a4/Guild_war_rewards_screen.png/400px-Guild_war_rewards_screen.png

[quantumace]

But that is what's happening in KA. The top guild just gets more op and no one can catch up

The biggest problem with KA and MW, is that the rewards stack with each event. The rewards from each boss event, collect 10 event, and war each add to your cumulative attack and defense. In K&D, you only get to use 3 armors at a time. There is a finite possible difference between the best armor a free player can realistically attain, and the top armors you can get from spending gems. That difference may grow with each new epic armor, but it is miniscule compared to the difference in KA and MW. In those games that difference just keeps getting bigger with every single event.

If you stop playing those games for a month, it is tough to even buy your way back to the spot you were at before. You can't get back the units you missed on an LTQ or boss event, but every other active player received them.

[Sakino]

Eunuchorn is simple wanting every game to be the same thing. If you want this game to be like ka or what the name of this game is, simply play ka. I dont think is proficuos to gree making all the games the same things. Only the 0,00001% of the money spenders will like this because they cam easly get those rewards. If you want this thing, pay a copiright sharing bill and make your own knight and dragon, i think you have the money to do that.

[Lord Of The Infernal]

This might sound stupid but may i know what is the Max % for guild Elements and Guardian ?

[Eunuchorn]

I agree completely with King Mark. It's obviously that the rewards will keep the Guild Wars even for a while.

As for Eunuchorn's belief that Gree implemented his idea's 100%, really? 'Post hoc ergo proctor hoc'

I remember a few months ago Eunuchorn used to have these ridiculous links in his sigs. He was pullling his usual child inneed of a diaper change act onone of the threads, so i decided to jump in and point out exactly how his links were ridiculous, chomsky-esque nonsense that had long since being discredited (even by its own proponents). I also invited him to PM me if he wanted to argue his point. He never responded, and shortly after, his sig was changed.

Using the principle of Post hoc ergo proctor hoc, which Eunuchorn uses to declare Gree adapted his ideas 100%, I am now declaring that Eunuchorn changed his obnoxious sig, and his beliefs, after he realised the validity of my argument and accepted his own place in this 'Leviathon' nightmare,throwing away the 'Nietzsche for Dummies' book that had so shaped his life up to that point.

On a serious note, King Mark & Bearsuo are myfavorite posters here, always balanced, fair and analytical.

It's cute that you think I remember this happening. If you really think anything you said had an effect on what I do, I'm not the one w/ an ego problem. I'm sure all 22 of your posts have been more than useful, though.



Actually Gree implemented 100% of my ideas on the new Guild UI layout
^ this was directed at Deathshade, who unlike some of you fanbois, actually understands how the Beast works & isn't praising them for their part in the economic slavery of mankind. It's ok, I wouldn't expect you 15 year olds to understand sarcasm.

One more thing towards Prince Mark, if you think the lack of diversity in armor rewards is a good thing, you're wrong. If you think adding more diversity would just make the top guilds exponentially more powerful, you'd be wrong again. You took every point I made & churned it into a single idea & just repeated the exact same useless spew that is in every other one of your posts.

[Eunuchorn]

Eunuchorn is simple wanting every game to be the same thing. If you want this game to be like ka or what the name of this game is, simply play ka. I dont think is proficuos to gree making all the games the same things. Only the 0,00001% of the money spenders will like this because they cam easly get those rewards. If you want this thing, pay a copiright sharing bill and make your own knight and dragon, i think you have the money to do that.

What I want are passive bonuses, which is a Gree War staple in every one of their games. K&D has very unique aspects which they could apply these too; more armory slots, faster knight hp regen, +10% potion effect.

I do play the other Gree games; "Go play this game instead" is an ignorant, thoughtless, non-constructive suggestion. If you are happy w/ rewards as is, then you know your guild won't be top 10 now, or probably ever, & as typical in an ego-driven society, if you can't have it, no one else should either?

[Sifu]

The biggest problem with KA and MW, is that the rewards stack with each event. The rewards from each boss event, collect 10 event, and war each add to your cumulative attack and defense. In K&D, you only get to use 3 armors at a time. There is a finite possible difference between the best armor a free player can realistically attain, and the top armors you can get from spending gems. That difference may grow with each new epic armor, but it is miniscule compared to the difference in KA and MW. In those games that difference just keeps getting bigger with every single event.

If you stop playing those games for a month, it is tough to even buy your way back to the spot you were at before. You can't get back the units you missed on an LTQ or boss event, but every other active player received them.


What I want are passive bonuses, which is a Gree War staple in every one of their games. K&D has very unique aspects which they could apply these too; more armory slots, faster knight hp regen, +10% potion effect.

I have to agree with quantumace in the difference between these two opinions. Any game that makes it so that you might as well not come back if you ever take a break is poor design, IMO. Those kinds of passive bonuses are ground that can never be recovered for newcomers or those who take a break.

[geo81]

So has this war started yet? I'm so confused on how to fight other guilds! Is the timer when the war ends or starts?!

[Revelate]

So has this war started yet? I'm so confused on how to fight other guilds! Is the timer when the war ends or starts?!

Starts when the timer expires.

[palehorsem4n]

I would love a temporary boost to armor enhancing of even 5% as a reward.

Better yet, make that **** permanent.

[Eunuchorn]

War starts when the timer ends.


I have to agree with quantumace in the difference between these two opinions. Any game that makes it so that you might as well not come back if you ever take a break is poor design, IMO. Those kinds of passive bonuses are ground that can never be recovered for newcomers or those who take a break.

The problem we have here are people who have no chance of getting top 25, thinking the reward scheme will affect them. This whole I took a break & couldn't go back because those darn top 10 guilds just keep getting stronger is LUDICROUS. The rewards for top 1250 guilds in KA sucks. Guild #1 might get 300k stats, 25: 100k, 100: 50k, 1250: 5k. Guess what, there's a lot more than 1200 guilds in that game. If you are a free player, accept that Gree doesn't care about you & stop trying to compare yourself w/ those of us that do (whether you approve of spending money on a game or not)

This is the response I'm seeing when talking about 5% faster recharge for PAYING PLAYERS
"YOU MIGHT GET TO 60 KILLS W/O SPENDING 80 or more GEMS ON EE every week! THAT'S NOT FAIR BECAUSE I CAN'T GET PAST KILL 30 & IM ALMOST LVL.100!"
- everyone in this thread

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?48856-Epic-Moral-Struggles-amp-the-Enslavement-of-a-Republic-A-Day-in-the-Life-of-CJ54

[Azraelthevengeful]

[QUOTE=Eunuchorn;922907]It's cute that you think I remember this happening. If you really think anything you said had an effect on what I do, I'm not the one w/ an ego problem. I'm sure all 22 of your posts have been more than useful, though.

Congrats on actually responding this time.

Unlike you Eunuchorn, I don't spend every second in my mom's basement whining on the internet about how horrible a game company are to me. I, like most people, have this thing called 'real life' to deal with. In between two sessions in the gym a day (I'm in training at the moment), my job, my gf (thats a woman you can have sex with without the exchange of money, Eunuchorn) and any of the other things that can come up, i don't get to play that much of K&D and get on here even less. i will usually browse once a day to see if there is anything helpful. Then i travel a good bit for my job as well. But thank you for taking up the slack for all of us that have real lives, we are very proud of you.

I don't have an ego problem by the way, I am incredibly kind to my inferiors, but i just decided to make an exception for you.

I see the links are back. You really are just a walking parody, aren't you?

[Sakino]

Eu, you are taking this game too hard. Do you do other things other than playing? I feel strange for you.

[Eunuchorn]

First, referring to the thread:http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps3d191967.jpg

Second person today of accusing me of living in my parents basement. You guys are probably the same Meyers Briggs lettering (90% of population is 1 of 16 4-letter combinations, I'm INTJ, 1-2%) I'm thankful of you reminding me I used to have links in my sig, I had grown weary of what was there currently. I'm sorry you're so addicted to carbon that you have to look down on me for being, among far worse things, bored w/ the world around me that I play phone games all day. When I get really bored, I will finally take that final plunge, but as it stands I find your' humans long term conditioning amusing.
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps259d0dba.jpg
Do you see what I have to deal with day in & day out? No, you can't because *you* are what I'm dealing with. Critical thinking was ejected from the earth long ago, don't blame yourselves.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps64e4a693.jpg
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps22c167cf.jpg

I also play Game of War, but still camping.

Learn something about me:
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s657/TehEunuchorn/null_zps5ded2b81.jpg

Don't feel offended, antagonized, judgemental. Just realize none of not matters & wait for Guild Wars to start.

[SoloStar]

Any ideas on how guild wars will work? Are Guardians needed? If so, is there a point to leveling them up?

[Hildigam]

War starts when the timer ends.



The problem we have here are people who have no chance of getting top 25, thinking the reward scheme will affect them. This whole I took a break & couldn't go back because those darn top 10 guilds just keep getting stronger is LUDICROUS. The rewards for top 1250 guilds in KA sucks. Guild #1 might get 300k stats, 25: 100k, 100: 50k, 1250: 5k. Guess what, there's a lot more than 1200 guilds in that game. If you are a free player, accept that Gree doesn't care about you & stop trying to compare yourself w/ those of us that do (whether you approve of spending money on a game or not)

This is the response I'm seeing when talking about 5% faster recharge for PAYING PLAYERS
"YOU MIGHT GET TO 60 KILLS W/O SPENDING 80 or more GEMS ON EE every week! THAT'S NOT FAIR BECAUSE I CAN'T GET PAST KILL 30 & IM ALMOST LVL.100!"
- everyone in this thread

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?48856-Epic-Moral-Struggles-amp-the-Enslavement-of-a-Republic-A-Day-in-the-Life-of-CJ54

By the same token. Just because you want X reward does not mean that everybody else does. If they tailor the reward to the desires of the top players, then maybe a large group of players will not see the guild wars as an investment and therefor not spend money on gems and war energy. Think of it as a money making event, not a reward the players event and you will see why people want that type of reward.

So the rewards have to be wide enough to appeal to the masses and good enough that the top players to invest money into it. FOLLOWING the scheme that the game has established (which is Armors, Gems, Fusion stones, and Keys) asking for passives is not plausable at this point.

EDIT: Gree does care about free players, but in the way that means that they want them to spend money, so they are looking for ways to get them to spend money

[KOA]

Any ideas on how guild wars will work? Are Guardians needed? If so, is there a point to leveling them up?

They have updated the guild help menu to include more info on wars. Each guardian lasts for 1 war; they reduce the number of points opponents can gain against your guild. The higher the lvl the guardian is, the harder it will be to take out and the less point your opponents receive.

Each guild member is protected by the guild sentinel (defense leader in other gree games). The guild sentinel must be taken out before an opposing guild can attack any of your other members.

You also gain more points for attacking members in leadership roles (GM, sentinel, champion, HC)

[((Divine Scar))]

Eunuchorn u Are the man also u have 100% right

[SoloStar]

I just read that KOA, thank you. They didn't specify how many war energy you start off with though, from what I saw.

[quantumace]

The problem we have here are people who have no chance of getting top 25, thinking the reward scheme will affect them. This whole I took a break & couldn't go back because those darn top 10 guilds just keep getting stronger is LUDICROUS. The rewards for top 1250 guilds in KA sucks. Guild #1 might get 300k stats, 25: 100k, 100: 50k, 1250: 5k. Guess what, there's a lot more than 1200 guilds in that game. If you are a free player, accept that Gree doesn't care about you & stop trying to compare yourself w/ those of us that do (whether you approve of spending money on a game or not)


I never said a player in a top 1250 guild was at a disadvantage to a player in a top 10 guild because of the rewards. Being in a top 1250 guild is so far away from a top 10 guild, that they are basically playing different games. Why the hell would I compare them? The same goes for free vs gem spenders, if I decided not to spend money on gems, I would never expect to be at the same level as those that do. I really don't understand why you felt the need to start comparing things that are so different.

What I did say, was that if a player missed a few events, they would have a hard time getting back to the same level they were at before. If a top 10 player missed the rewards from a few events, they would have a hard time catching up to the stats of the other top 10 players that received those rewards. If a top 500 player missed the rewards from a few events, they would have a hard time catching up to the stats of the other top 500 players that received those rewards. This was to illustrate the level of stat inflation that was occurring. There is a certain level of rewards that are available to everyone at your tier, regardless of what tier you are in.

Now, here is the main point, those rewards are cumulative, and they increase each event. Using your scoring model the #1 guild received a reward 3 times larger than the #25 guild, and that puts them at an advantage for the next event. If the #1 guild wins the second event, they receive another reward 3 times larger than the #25 guild. At this point, #1 has received rewards of 600k stats, and #25 received a 200k stat bump. In war 3, #1 receives 500k stats and a 10% bonus to gold production, #25 receives 150k stats and a 5% reduction to crafting times. By this point, rewards make up the majority of the stats for each guild, so the #25 guild can't make up much ground by building stats through normal gameplay. As more fixed bonuses are rewarded, the top guild receives even more advantage in purchasing guild bonuses. With each event, the gap between each tier increases, and the rewards and bonuses keep piling up.

The difference in K&D, is that at most you can use 3 armors at a time. By the 4th event, the #1 guild will have 3 superior armors to the #25 guild. They will have a clear cut advantage, but it is limited to 3 armors at a time. In other games, it would be the equivalent of the #1 guild using 4 knights at a time while everyone else uses 3. Pretty soon it gets rather pointless. In the last Modern War event, the #1 team scored twice as many points as #3, and three times as many as #10. The gap between these teams are enormous, and stat inflation is just increasing that gap. In K&D they keep releasing new armors that are better than everything before them, but the increase is much more gradual.

If you want to be able to buy your way to #1, and look at everyone else getting farther behind every day, thats fine. I just don't find that very rewarding. I would rather keep the field a little tighter, and more competitive. That is why I have started playing K&D more than the other games.

[Eunuchorn]

By the same token. Just because you want X reward does not mean that everybody else does. If they tailor the reward to the desires of the top players, then maybe a large group of players will not see the guild wars as an investment and therefor not spend money on gems and war energy. Think of it as a money making event, not a reward the players event and you will see why people want that type of reward.

So the rewards have to be wide enough to appeal to the masses and good enough that the top players to invest money into it. FOLLOWING the scheme that the game has established (which is Armors, Gems, Fusion stones, and Keys) asking for passives is not plausable at this point.

EDIT: Gree does care about free players, but in the way that means that they want them to spend money, so they are looking for ways to get them to spend money

You find the current rewards have a wide range? LoL

[Eunuchorn]

I never said a player in a top 1250 guild was at a disadvantage to a player in a top 10 guild because of the rewards. Being in a top 1250 guild is so far away from a top 10 guild, that they are basically playing different games. Why the hell would I compare them? The same goes for free vs gem spenders, if I decided not to spend money on gems, I would never expect to be at the same level as those that do. I really don't understand why you felt the need to start comparing things that are so different.

What I did say, was that if a player missed a few events, they would have a hard time getting back to the same level they were at before. If a top 10 player missed the rewards from a few events, they would have a hard time catching up to the stats of the other top 10 players that received those rewards. If a top 500 player missed the rewards from a few events, they would have a hard time catching up to the stats of the other top 500 players that received those rewards. This was to illustrate the level of stat inflation that was occurring. There is a certain level of rewards that are available to everyone at your tier, regardless of what tier you are in.

Now, here is the main point, those rewards are cumulative, and they increase each event. Using your scoring model the #1 guild received a reward 3 times larger than the #25 guild, and that puts them at an advantage for the next event. If the #1 guild wins the second event, they receive another reward 3 times larger than the #25 guild. At this point, #1 has received rewards of 600k stats, and #25 received a 200k stat bump. In war 3, #1 receives 500k stats and a 10% bonus to gold production, #25 receives 150k stats and a 5% reduction to crafting times. By this point, rewards make up the majority of the stats for each guild, so the #25 guild can't make up much ground by building stats through normal gameplay. As more fixed bonuses are rewarded, the top guild receives even more advantage in purchasing guild bonuses. With each event, the gap between each tier increases, and the rewards and bonuses keep piling up.

The difference in K&D, is that at most you can use 3 armors at a time. By the 4th event, the #1 guild will have 3 superior armors to the #25 guild. They will have a clear cut advantage, but it is limited to 3 armors at a time. In other games, it would be the equivalent of the #1 guild using 4 knights at a time while everyone else uses 3. Pretty soon it gets rather pointless. In the last Modern War event, the #1 team scored twice as many points as #3, and three times as many as #10. The gap between these teams are enormous, and stat inflation is just increasing that gap. In K&D they keep releasing new armors that are better than everything before them, but the increase is much more gradual.

If you want to be able to buy your way to #1, and look at everyone else getting farther behind every day, thats fine. I just don't find that very rewarding. I would rather keep the field a little tighter, and more competitive. That is why I have started playing K&D more than the other games.

Cry me a fricken river. The dude I quoted misquoted you then. I'm still straining to see how faster AE/EE or better heal pots will help us win every war? You people are astounding. Go play call of duty w/o perks & starting gun then QQ about dying. Buy my way to the top of what? I was 35 on boss leaderboard, did kill 61 & jumped to 28. Well if top 25 is mostly my guild, I'm pretty sure minor boosts & extra space to hold my 20 nemesis armors aren't gonna give me more of an edge over other players than Ive already got. You think giving away a ton of comb+ & epics isn't gonna exponentially increase the divide? Riight

Other than that you were disagreeing w/ me then repeating more or less the same points. Or making points that my points already inferred or assumed.

If I'm paying money for this game, why shouldn't I get perks that free players who happen to be in ok guilds or better can't get?

[Bearsuo]

Most of these posts are garbage. Unicorn, you should know that this cycle repeats itself in every game and you can't change how the wheel turns. You might claim it amuses you, but some posts belie that. To everyone - the top players/guilds in every game get hated on. That K&D is freemium simply flavors the hatorade. Yawn, seriously.

Returning to the point, here's my question - what if this is a test run of War functionality, hence "mediocre" prizes. Everything rewarded will eventually obsolete. Whereas, say, a 1% fire boost - if that got mis-awarded - would require stupid work arounds to "obsolete."

[michwlvrins]

It would not be fair for the guild master to hand out the prizes as he sees fit or for everyone below the next up to get all the prizes minus the next best prize. Im the guild sentinel of my guild and I can beat the master with ease. So obviously im the best of my guild, not the leader.

[Bearsuo]

It would not be fair for the guild master to hand out the prizes as he sees fit or for everyone below the next up to get all the prizes minus the next best prize. Im the guild sentinel of my guild and I can beat the master with ease. So obviously im the best of my guild, not the leader.

When I have a solid three minutes I will explain how profoundly confused every part of your post is.

[Thatzme]

Most of these posts are garbage. Unicorn, you should know that this cycle repeats itself in every game and you can't change how the wheel turns. You might claim it amuses you, but some posts belie that. To everyone - the top players/guilds in every game get hated on. That K&D is freemium simply flavors the hatorade. Yawn, seriously.

Returning to the point, here's my question - what if this is a test run of War functionality, hence "mediocre" prizes. Everything rewarded will eventually obsolete. Whereas, say, a 1% fire boost - if that got mis-awarded - would require stupid work arounds to "obsolete."

I like your thinking - gree needs this test run to see how guild wars turn out. How much gem spent, how many serious guilds are in contention etc before they can work out the adequate rewards befitting of each different band of rankings for the future wars.

However I do see Chorn's suggestions as viable in future after the first trial run; they are not entirely gamebreaking and practical if people can just look past their disdain for Chorn and make sense of his suggestions.

Gree ultimately wants to make money - best way to do it is to convert free players to paying ones, since envy can be a strong motivation. As much as I hate to say this, introducing guild wars is already big step in that direction. Once rewards get better for top guilds, envy and competitiveness will set in and more people will start to pay more to attempt to get those rewards. Casual players can still have their fun playing without spending, wheareas some will be disillusioned and leave knd altogether. That's the cycle, and it will definitely come.

[busteroaf]

It would not be fair for the guild master to hand out the prizes as he sees fit or for everyone below the next up to get all the prizes minus the next best prize. Im the guild sentinel of my guild and I can beat the master with ease. So obviously im the best of my guild, not the leader.

I don't see why it wouldn't be fair. If the GM is fair, why wouldn't it be fair that those who did more damage, or earned more points within the guild, to get the better prizes, if that is what the GM decides to do? Or what if they wanted to give a good armor to a lower geared player to bring them up to speed? There are many options that could arise. Also, it keeps the rewards limited. Hence, not having 500 extra epic armors floating around. Only for a select few.

Hell, anyone play WoW or any other MMO? Guilds had, and still do have to an extent, some form of DKP, or whatever ranking you used for boss kills to get gear. Why does one person get first dibs at the new fancy legendary? Because they donated the most, or did the most DPS. That is why they have master looter and other options. So people can go with what works best for them. My guild used some crazy "karma" bonus where if you participated, you still got points, so that you'd get a better shot at getting gear over someone who just joined. By the way Gree is making it, you could have 20 people join a guild the day before they lock down guilds, and earn all the prizes, and leave. By allowing us to control the prize disbursement, you can eliminate, or at least reduce that.

Many other games give out individual rewards within guild rewards. Top guild gets A prizes as a whole, while top individual(s) in said guild gets B prize(s), while the rest get C and even down to D and below. This keeps the competition within guilds going, and between guilds. Many of these games also have an economy and/or trade/auction house style setups, where the top guilds/players will often sell off their prizes to lower level people. Besides, the top rewards doesn't always mean its the best gear in game, especially when you have to enhance/max it out before it becomes "best".

Also, good for you for being a sentinel in your guild and being better than your GM. I don't know about you, but if I was beating my GM and dominating the guild wars for my guild, I would want a bigger piece of the pie. Maybe my thinking is backwards on this. Also, what this has to do with the topic of rewards is beyond me.

[busteroaf]

I like your thinking - gree needs this test run to see how guild wars turn out. How much gem spent, how many serious guilds are in contention etc before they can work out the adequate rewards befitting of each different band of rankings for the future wars.

However I do see Chorn's suggestions as viable in future after the first trial run; they are not entirely gamebreaking and practical if people can just look past their disdain for Chorn and make sense of his suggestions.

Gree ultimately wants to make money - best way to do it is to convert free players to paying ones, since envy can be a strong motivation. As much as I hate to say this, introducing guild wars is already big step in that direction. Once rewards get better for top guilds, envy and competitiveness will set in and more people will start to pay more to attempt to get those rewards. Casual players can still have their fun playing without spending, wheareas some will be disillusioned and leave knd altogether. That's the cycle, and it will definitely come.

^ Also this.

Much of money spent is based on the illusion that the lower tier players CAN make it to the top. This is what drives the economy. Gree practically NEEDS a top guild (or 10) to fuel the lower guilds to compete more, by buying gems for the various uses in game. But in order to get better, and to compete they will eventually have to spend.

[Climax]

Congrats on actually responding this time.

Unlike you Eunuchorn, I don't spend every second in my mom's basement whining on the internet about how horrible a game company are to me. I, like most people, have this thing called 'real life' to deal with. In between two sessions in the gym a day (I'm in training at the moment), my job, my gf (thats a woman you can have sex with without the exchange of money, Eunuchorn) and any of the other things that can come up, i don't get to play that much of K&D and get on here even less. i will usually browse once a day to see if there is anything helpful. Then i travel a good bit for my job as well. But thank you for taking up the slack for all of us that have real lives, we are very proud of you.

I don't have an ego problem by the way, I am incredibly kind to my inferiors, but i just decided to make an exception for you.

I see the links are back. You really are just a walking parody, aren't you?

Who the hell do you think you are? The Queen of England?

Seriously, how childish is that reaction.

Real life can be perfectly combined with games. Being active doesn't mean you have no life...
Persons like you are actually the one's that live in their mom's basement. And I love the fact you mention you are at the gym working out. Do you want people to think your one muscle car? While you could be working that big fat belly away to see your Oompa-Loompa one day!

Oh I forgot about the best part of your comment: the girlfriend. You really respect your GF if the only thing you could talk about is FREE sex... But ok, even if chorn would pay for sex... I'd also pay for having sex with a beatiful girl instead of having free sex with that hippopotamus of yours.

I just want to clarify myself: I gave the same personal and childish reaction as he did before.
So I think it's time again to act like adults and discuss the subject instead of throwing hard words and false notions at each other!!!

[Hjon]

Does everybody in giuld Claims same rewards.

[Hildigam]

You find the current rewards have a wide range? LoL

In a game where you have to chance fuse a Sky guardian, and it is impossible to fuse a + then that would cover the "freeest" of players if you would which would get them to participate enough to get the lowest teirs of prizes, and the Epic + with 4star + Is a decent enough prize to get the heavy cashers to cash up during the event, since theoretically you won't be able to DPC the epic, making it almost esclusive to the top guilds. So yes I do think that the armor rewards are intelligent enough to put the carrot so to speak in front of the players.

[quantumace]

Cry me a fricken river. The dude I quoted misquoted you then. I'm still straining to see how faster AE/EE or better heal pots will help us win every war? You people are astounding. Go play call of duty w/o perks & starting gun then QQ about dying. Buy my way to the top of what? I was 35 on boss leaderboard, did kill 61 & jumped to 28. Well if top 25 is mostly my guild, I'm pretty sure minor boosts & extra space to hold my 20 nemesis armors aren't gonna give me more of an edge over other players than Ive already got. You think giving away a ton of comb+ & epics isn't gonna exponentially increase the divide? Riight

Other than that you were disagreeing w/ me then repeating more or less the same points. Or making points that my points already inferred or assumed.

If I'm paying money for this game, why shouldn't I get perks that free players who happen to be in ok guilds or better can't get?

Why do you want me to cry for you? That is strange.

I did say that paying players should expect to receive things that free players don't. I don't know why you keep bringing this up and acting like you are disagreeing with me.

When I said "you" could buy your way to the top, I did not mean you specifically. I know you are such an important figure in this game, so I guess I should have been much more specific. While faster AA/EE regen might not automatically help a player win every war, I think we should be careful about adding bonuses like that. In other games I have seen that type of bonus contribute to a wider gap between tiers of players. I am not saying a wide gap is inherently bad, but my preference would be for smaller gaps. Epic armors will contribute to increasing the divide, but in a more limited manner. It is also easier to fix an overpowered armor than an overpowered bonus. I assume the bonuses are coming, I would just like to see them rolled out slowly. I do think it would be awesome if we could purchase extra armor spots, or if they were a reward. I would be willing to pay a significant amount for the convenience.

[KOA]

I'm just hoping everyone comes to the realization that the rewards for this war do not warrant as much gem spending as in other gree games. This way we can have a nice, fun and competitive war without people spending $$$$$ just to get an epic+ armor.

[busteroaf]

I am not saying a wide gap is inherently bad, but my preference would be for smaller gaps. Epic armors will contribute to increasing the divide, but in a more limited manner. It is also easier to fix an overpowered armor than an overpowered bonus. I assume the bonuses are coming, I would just like to see them rolled out slowly.
So... you want the gap to be smaller for? More "competition"? More "fairness"? The ability to move up in tiers of rewards? I'm asking because I'm curious, not trying to be condescending. If there isn't a gap, then why would top guilds compete just to earn the same rewards as the next guy? for the spirit of competition? Maybe I'm a negative nancy but I think not. People want to be rewarded, and they want the best thing they can get, not just the "thanks for trying" medal.


I'm just hoping everyone comes to the realization that the rewards for this war do not warrant as much gem spending as in other gree games. This way we can have a nice, fun and competitive war without people spending $$$$$ just to get an epic+ armor.

As long as this game is Freemium, you will always have people who overpay for things simply because they want to get to the top, or be on top. Also, the idea of "nice, fun, and competitive war" seems a little... against the idea of what war is.

[quantumace]

So... you want the gap to be smaller for? More "competition"? More "fairness"? The ability to move up in tiers of rewards? I'm asking because I'm curious, not trying to be condescending. If there isn't a gap, then why would top guilds compete just to earn the same rewards as the next guy? for the spirit of competition? Maybe I'm a negative nancy but I think not. People want to be rewarded, and they want the best thing they can get, not just the "thanks for trying" medal.


I really don't give a flying @#&$ about so-called "fairness". 99% of the time when people say something is "unfair" they actually mean they are jealous of another persons achievements. To use an extreme example, I don't think it would be unfair if they offered an armor with stats of 99,999/99,999, for the low cost of 80,000 gems. Its is available to everyone, so how could it be unfair? I don't think it would make it a fun game, but its not unfair.

I don't know how else to say this, but I firmly believe there should be a gap between each tier of player. If you don't get rewarded for being better, why play? I don't care whether you become better through skill or paying, but you should be rewarded for being better.

A smaller gap does not mean a non-existent gap. Not trying to be condescending, but it seems like a lot of people don't grasp this concept. I wouldn't mind a larger gap than there is currently. What I am cautioning against is starting a process of awarding bonuses that will result in this gap widening at an increasing rate. It is possible for all of the bonuses eunuchorn mentioned to be implemented without doing this, but I would prefer that GREE take a more conservative route than they have in other games.

[busteroaf]

Heard. Makes sense. Small gaps that build over time, not immediately game changing. Cool deal. I can follow the thought process now.

I was seeing "small gap" as no gap. My apologies.

[Azraelthevengeful]

Who the hell do you think you are? The Queen of England?

Seriously, how childish is that reaction.

Real life can be perfectly combined with games. Being active doesn't mean you have no life...
Persons like you are actually the one's that live in their mom's basement. And I love the fact you mention you are at the gym working out. Do you want people to think your one muscle car? While you could be working that big fat belly away to see your Oompa-Loompa one day!

Oh I forgot about the best part of your comment: the girlfriend. You really respect your GF if the only thing you could talk about is FREE sex... But ok, even if chorn would pay for sex... I'd also pay for having sex with a beatiful girl instead of having free sex with that hippopotamus of yours.

I just want to clarify myself: I gave the same personal and childish reaction as he did before.
So I think it's time again to act like adults and discuss the subject instead of throwing hard words and false notions at each other!!!

I actually understand your point here Climax , and perhaps i should have argued my point a different way. I understand that better than anyone, me who despairs at the level of discourse in all facets of this world. I actually liked your post, it gave me a good laugh...

Perhaps I should have pointed out that his links are outdated and discredited. That 'personality test' that elevates him into 1%? Well its been discredited for over 20 years. Mainly due to the fact that over 36% of people who take it all score in that 1%. Now,i'm sure that you can do the math on that. Its also been discredited due to variences in consistency which means you can take the test 3 times and come out in three different groups. You could score in that elusive 1% this week, but unfortunately next week its back to the 99% for you :( Plus it tends to suffer highly from fantasist syndrome, due to the fact that the answers are applied directly by the subject, with no controlled setting, or psychologists to monitor seperate physical responses of the subject. What you tend to get is people answering how they wished they were, rather than how they are. I understand that would have been better
Perhaps i should have instead pointed out that the idea that the media are pushing some weird agenda on us all, and we all should click on his links to read 'real' news, has been rejected even by the people who first argued for it. Don't get me wrong, i understand the points Chomsky is making in manufacturing consent, but that was 1969. It's over 5 years now since Chomsky himself had to stand in front of an audience in Winnipeg and admit that in the era of NICT's, there is no such thing as a media agenda. But I didn't do that.

I almost certainly should have pointed out that going on about everyone's 'long term conditioning' as if he's different from it is the biggest joke of all. There is a thing called the '80/20 rule' in marketing. What that means is that when Eunochorn goes on about the rest of us, what he is really saying is: I'm part of the 20% that gets manipulated in a different way than the 80%, and that makes me special'. The end result is the same dance, it's just different strings being pulled. Its the uniform of non-conformity. Not that it matters. Every sociology experiment on the implementation or disappearance of Hobb's 'Leviathon' society has proved that i'm afraid the weak will not inherit the earth. I wish the world was a fairer place, but you can't fight evolution.
Obviously I should have done all of the above, but I didn't. Such is life. The thing is, i have no hard feelings towards Eunochorn either, the only thing i feel for him is pity. I don't mean that in a condescending way either, it's good that he's willing to question the world around him, but you shouldn't swallow the '20%' opinions whole and have a go at people who don't agree with you. I stepped in this time because i didn't like his childish temper tantrum towards a genuinly excellent poster on here who is willing to contribute to the forums. Guess i forgot the old debating rule; Never get into an argument with anyone who buys ink by the barrel. Or maybe it was: Never argue with a moron, they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
Whatever, I'll be off on holidays tomorrow. But just know Climax that despite your funny words, I've got nothing but love for all the posters on here. Peace my brother....

BTW I can confirm that I am not in fact the Queen of England

[Bryanv2]

I like the rewards. However, I do agree that they are pretty damn linear/similar. Everyone will end up with the same armors rather than it being different things of different levels.

Oh wellz. I'll be rooting mostly for the Gem rewards seeing as I just fusioned the combustion anyways xD

[iH8t2lose2]

Here is what I think should happen. You shouldnt be able to spend gems to help on guild wars, as your advantage has already came from maxed TFs and epic plus armors. That way it would be fair enough so that people dont complain on either side. Then they could slowly roll out minor changes to the rewards i.e. -30 sec ee recharge rate, but not change the arena energy.

[Eunuchorn]

I actually understand your point here Climax , and perhaps i should have argued my point a different way. I understand that better than anyone, me who despairs at the level of discourse in all facets of this world. I actually liked your post, it gave me a good laugh...

Perhaps I should have pointed out that his links are outdated and discredited. That 'personality test' that elevates him into 1%? Well its been discredited for over 20 years. Mainly due to the fact that over 36% of people who take it all score in that 1%. Now,i'm sure that you can do the math on that. Its also been discredited due to variences in consistency which means you can take the test 3 times and come out in three different groups. You could score in that elusive 1% this week, but unfortunately next week its back to the 99% for you :( Plus it tends to suffer highly from fantasist syndrome, due to the fact that the answers are applied directly by the subject, with no controlled setting, or psychologists to monitor seperate physical responses of the subject. What you tend to get is people answering how they wished they were, rather than how they are. I understand that would have been better
Perhaps i should have instead pointed out that the idea that the media are pushing some weird agenda on us all, and we all should click on his links to read 'real' news, has been rejected even by the people who first argued for it. Don't get me wrong, i understand the points Chomsky is making in manufacturing consent, but that was 1969. It's over 5 years now since Chomsky himself had to stand in front of an audience in Winnipeg and admit that in the era of NICT's, there is no such thing as a media agenda. But I didn't do that.

I almost certainly should have pointed out that going on about everyone's 'long term conditioning' as if he's different from it is the biggest joke of all. There is a thing called the '80/20 rule' in marketing. What that means is that when Eunochorn goes on about the rest of us, what he is really saying is: I'm part of the 20% that gets manipulated in a different way than the 80%, and that makes me special'. The end result is the same dance, it's just different strings being pulled. Its the uniform of non-conformity. Not that it matters. Every sociology experiment on the implementation or disappearance of Hobb's 'Leviathon' society has proved that i'm afraid the weak will not inherit the earth. I wish the world was a fairer place, but you can't fight evolution.
Obviously I should have done all of the above, but I didn't. Such is life. The thing is, i have no hard feelings towards Eunochorn either, the only thing i feel for him is pity. I don't mean that in a condescending way either, it's good that he's willing to question the world around him, but you shouldn't swallow the '20%' opinions whole and have a go at people who don't agree with you. I stepped in this time because i didn't like his childish temper tantrum towards a genuinly excellent poster on here who is willing to contribute to the forums. Guess i forgot the old debating rule; Never get into an argument with anyone who buys ink by the barrel. Or maybe it was: Never argue with a moron, they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
Whatever, I'll be off on holidays tomorrow. But just know Climax that despite your funny words, I've got nothing but love for all the posters on here. Peace my brother....

BTW I can confirm that I am not in fact the Queen of England

Spew more points about modern society please. If it happened post-2000 years ago, it's worthless & unnatural.
This is far more important than any personality test:
http://web.photodex.com/view/kp9xxxm4/?watch-kp9xxxm4

[BethMo]

What I am cautioning against is starting a process of awarding bonuses that will result in this gap widening at an increasing rate. It is possible for all of the bonuses eunuchorn mentioned to be implemented without doing this, but I would prefer that GREE take a more conservative route than they have in other games.

Strongly agree. I think some of those other games that have been mentioned here have shot themselves in the foot. Why would anyone new want to join a PvP-based game knowing that it is mathematically impossible for them to ever become anywhere close to competitive with the older players?

However, I do wish Gree had included some more innovative prizes. Extra armor slots was a great suggestion -- they would be very nice to have without giving any sort of competitive advantage.

[Bearsuo]

It would not be fair for the guild master to hand out the prizes as he sees fit or for everyone below the next up to get all the prizes minus the next best prize. Im the guild sentinel of my guild and I can beat the master with ease. So obviously im the best of my guild, not the leader.

Okay, so, lucky me, I have 3 minutes to spare. Here's what is profoundly wrong with what you've said. We're going to take a small detour, first.

Let's suppose you're good with computers. Doesn't matter what. Maybe a programmer, maybe database administration, whatever. So good that people should pay you big money to do computer stuff. Well, how are you going to get them to do that?

1) Work for a computer company
2) Work for yourself (run your own company, even if it's a company of 1)

To work for a computer company, you'll need to find one, and interview for the position, and then negotiate for your pay. Believe it or not, each of those are skills, and they are not really tied to, say, running a database, or programming, or whatever it was that we said you're good at, as a job, that you should be paid for (unless you were clever and picked "deal negotiator", "lawyer", and a few other cheats to this example)

To work for your own company, you'll need a whole different set of skills - some legal maneuvering, some business development, et cet - none of which, again, related to the original skill.

Now, we could argue that shelling out 300,000 gold isn't really a skill. Nor is recruiting some random players, maybe spam some invites yo? And then again, it isn't like there's a whole lot of skill in farming up snakeskins. So maybe my analogy is terrible. Other than to say, you being able to take your guildmaster in a fight is not a useful measure of anything other than your ability to take your guildmaster in a fight.

[Bearsuo]

Strongly agree. I think some of those other games that have been mentioned here have shot themselves in the foot. Why would anyone new want to join a PvP-based game knowing that it is mathematically impossible for them to ever become anywhere close to competitive with the older players?

Have you read Richard Bartle's essay, Players Who Suit MUDs? http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm

He wrote about the need for permadeath in MUDs and how MUDs are (due to economic forces) being designed by "noobs." All essays germane to every one of these conversations.

[Eunuchorn]

Strongly agree. I think some of those other games that have been mentioned here have shot themselves in the foot. Why would anyone new want to join a PvP-based game knowing that it is mathematically impossible for them to ever become anywhere close to competitive with the older players?

However, I do wish Gree had included some more innovative prizes. Extra armor slots was a great suggestion -- they would be very nice to have without giving any sort of competitive advantage.

Dont new people sign up for WoW every day? I don't like that logic.

[busteroaf]

Dont new people sign up for WoW every day? I don't like that logic.

True story. With WoW, its hardly a mathematical impossibility anymore to rank up in Arena or PVP. Or raiding gear. You just have to grind. There are hardly any "races" where if you don't get it the first time around you're screwed. Sure, they have items in game that are no longer available, but not game changing. You can grind until your hearts content. And there aren't game changing rewards, only cosmetic, with a new mount and such. You can get equivalent rewards in various places in the game.

[Bearsuo]

True story. With WoW, its hardly a mathematical impossibility anymore to rank up in Arena or PVP. Or raiding gear. You just have to grind. There are hardly any "races" where if you don't get it the first time around you're screwed. Sure, they have items in game that are no longer available, but not game changing. You can grind until your hearts content. And there aren't game changing rewards, only cosmetic, with a new mount and such. You can get equivalent rewards in various places in the game.

WoW does resets and stepladders. Every year or so, a new expansion comes out and about 2/3rds of the way through, the best of the old stuff gets superseded by new stuff anyone can get. Then the differentiation begins again. Within expansions (and PVP seasons) they release new mid-level gear, so that the difference between top and middle is manageable. Truly top stuff often has perks - say, every third time you heal someone else, you get a small self heal. Helpful, but the out scaling of gear every expansion quickly shelves even that utility, and it doesn't put any of the game out of reach for the rest of the players.

I feel K&D may be doing something similar, with mid level armor rewards being old top armor rewards (sky guardian, I'm looking at you), and has done similar with freemium rewards - Moonplate vs dragon vs starsong, I'm looking at you.

[BethMo]

Have you read Richard Bartle's essay, Players Who Suit MUDs? http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm

Oh yes, that's an old favorite. I go back and re-read it every few years. Every game designer should read!

(I never played on a MUD but I spent hundreds of hours on MUSHes and a few MUCKs back in the time before web and MMOs -- mostly Pern roleplaying. I miss those. I wouldn't trade our current technology, but there were some great experiences back in that text-based environment that have gotten lost in the glitz.)

[BileJAR]

My sides, oh my god, best thread ever.

On topic, I'm excited for wars to start! :3 I can smell war!

[Chen]

let the war begins!