New LTB on Market

[JessieAllen33]

The No Intersest Savings building is now on sale.

[The Billionaire]

20 hour collection time

Another timer needed :mad:

[Holicaholic]

Upgrade/payout costs?

[RemyMartin]

I got the goal, haven't showed up in store yet.

[Euchred]

20 hour collection time

Another timer needed :mad:

Pfft won't bother, it's funny that I'm going to upgrade a building to level 10 and not collect it once.

[JessieAllen33]

Upgrade/payout costs?

http://crimecityios.wikia.com/wiki/No_Interest_Savings

[one man gang]

Can see the event, can't see the building lol

[highgrass]

I see it in my goals, but it hasn't shown up in my store yet. Are we only going to be able to buy one?

[out of names]

sucky building... SKIP

[bald zeemer]

It added about $2.8m to my IPH. Very nice indeed. :)

[Holicaholic]

It added about $2.8m to my IPH. Very nice indeed. :)

Already upgraded fully...?

[_Drifter]

Anyone unhappy about the collection time should at least consider skipping the event. I am currently debating it myself.

One the one hand, a few nice items that I will almost guaranteed obtain by other means (I have lots of Chinatown underbelly items and several dock guard items). On the other hand, the collection time totally sucks and I will never make a full collection on this building.

Therefore this building is pointless expect for the ten items, many of which will be recycled.

[LisaM]

Yeah, really NOT happy about the collection times >:(

[one man gang]

You should all skip this event and not build it!

[brandocommando]

Another building with an odd collection time I will enjoy robbing :D

[KemoKidd]

You should all skip this event and not build it!

Nope. As much as I agree the 20 hour collection time is one of the dumbest ideas gree has come out with I, as well as many others, are doing it for the items. I normally buy 2 of every ltb but that stopped with the Still. Thinking about this one now too.

I usually get these buildings to 7 or 8 before the event ends. Have yet to spend any real money on them either!

[The real cosmo]

Ok enough complaining about everything Gree does. It makes perfect sense to make an Ltb an off time to mix things up. Do you buy it for the items and small footprint and deal with it or wait for the next Ltb. Heaven forbid they don't make everything easy.

Where is Dipstik when you need him?

[jmeijer]

I love the 20hr payout! I collect 24/7, so it doesn't matter for me. But I'd like to rob some.

[187omni]

I love the 20hr payout! I collect 24/7, so it doesn't matter for me. But I'd like to rob some.

agreed ! collect on ur buildings and u'll b good.

[JessieAllen33]

I love the 20hr payout! I collect 24/7, so it doesn't matter for me. But I'd like to rob some.

I have to agree with you too. It's a got a good payout, just don't get robbed. Hahah

[KemoKidd]

I find it hard to believe that someone "loves" the payout time. Really? Love it more than a 24, 12 or 8 hour building? I understand this makes them more likely to be robbed but I would rather collect full price than rob for half price.

I really don't care about it being 20 hours I just don't understand the point of it. Ill have my strategy to collect on time (most of the time). All my buildings are synced and I set timers on my phone. However, I love sleep more than collecting a building at night. This beats an 18 hour building but not by much!

[187omni]

I find it hard to believe that someone "loves" the payout time. Really? Love it more than a 24, 12 or 8 hour building? I understand this makes them more likely to be robbed but I would rather collect full price than rob for half price.

I really don't care about it being 20 hours I just don't understand the point of it. Ill have my strategy to collect on time (most of the time). All my buildings are synced and I set timers on my phone. However, I love sleep more than collecting a building at night. This beats an 18 hour building but not by much!


the "L" word is so hard to use. ever consider that GREE wants to keep you on ur toes instead of letting the game get predictable and stagnant ...

[bald zeemer]

It makes sense that they'd mix it up. More robbable buildings creates more activity. And I definitely prefer it personally - I can only collect from 2, but I can rob dozens.

[OffensivelyNamedGuy]

I love the payout, even calculated over 24 hrs (since I rarely get robbed). This thing puts the dockside mill and transtech to shame. It's almost as good as the casino.. Some may argue better due to the fast upgrade times and the higher overall output.

[bald zeemer]

It's better than a nightclub when you consider upgrade time. I'm stunned people even contemplate choosing not to get it. Suck it up and accept that you're going to see some red on your wall from time to time.

[Limerick]

I love the payout, even calculated over 24 hrs (since I rarely get robbed). This thing puts the dockside mill and transtech to shame. It's almost as good as the casino.. Some may argue better due to the fast upgrade times and the higher overall output.


The cost of this LTB is the same as the Transtech building, but the payout is double (calculated from 20 to 24 hours in comparison):

Transtech Cost / Payout (24 hours):
1. $78,000,000 / $613,000
2. $130,260,000 / $1,226,000
3. $216,839,999 / $2,145,500
4. $362,700,000 / $3,371,500
5. $606,060,000 / $4,904,000
6. $1,012,440,000 / $6,743,000
7. $1,691,820,000 / $8,888,500
8. $2,825,160,000 / $11,340,500
9. $4,718,220,000 / $14,099,000
10. $7,879,560,000 / $18,390,000

No Interest Savings / Payout (Scaled from 20 to 24 hours):
1. $78,600,000 / $1,200,000
2. $131,262,000 / $2,400,000
3. $219,207,540 / $4,200,000
4. $366,076,591 / $6,600,000
5. $611,347,906 / $9,600,000
6. $1,020,951,003 / $13,200,000
7. $1,704,988,175 / $17,400,000
8. $2,847,330,252 / $22,200,000
9. $4,755,041,520 / $27,600,000
10. $7,940,919,338 / $36,000,000

[OffensivelyNamedGuy]

Exactly. And payout/cost is comparable to the dockside mill, except paying out more than twice as often.

[murf]

I think this is a great idea by GREE....offer some kicka$$ buildings (if perfect collection) with odd collection times and let people decide for themselves the value of those buildings....brings back a little strategy into the game

[Chairman Maw]

If you build the bank, can you then bank your cash with no 10% bankers cut(loss)?

Or am I misinterpreting the description? Lol

[Gatorade]

LOL Maw - it says "No Interest", not "No Bank Fees" ;)

[Chairman Maw]

Haha wishful thinking on my part then!

Shame though. If you own a bank you would expect some perks and not just free pens. In fact that's a good point. I own all these various buildings yet I never get free t-shirts or fish or ice cream etc etc. sort it out Gree! Lol

[Gatorade]

Off topic, but how is your camper doing with Black Rose?

[Chairman Maw]

I'm only level 9 so even though it's listed, I haven't started it. Not sure whether to level up for it or not. Once you start it's hard to stop!

[c00guy]

The cost of this LTB is the same as the Transtech building, but the payout is double (calculated from 20 to 24 hours in comparison):

Transtech Cost / Payout (24 hours):
1. $78,000,000 / $613,000
2. $130,260,000 / $1,226,000
3. $216,839,999 / $2,145,500
4. $362,700,000 / $3,371,500
5. $606,060,000 / $4,904,000
6. $1,012,440,000 / $6,743,000
7. $1,691,820,000 / $8,888,500
8. $2,825,160,000 / $11,340,500
9. $4,718,220,000 / $14,099,000
10. $7,879,560,000 / $18,390,000

No Interest Savings / Payout (Scaled from 20 to 24 hours):
1. $78,600,000 / $1,200,000
2. $131,262,000 / $2,400,000
3. $219,207,540 / $4,200,000
4. $366,076,591 / $6,600,000
5. $611,347,906 / $9,600,000
6. $1,020,951,003 / $13,200,000
7. $1,704,988,175 / $17,400,000
8. $2,847,330,252 / $22,200,000
9. $4,755,041,520 / $27,600,000
10. $7,940,919,338 / $36,000,000

Very insightful, thanks! I always had a good feeling about this building. Getting 2 of them now. Would probably upgrade 1 to L4 :D

[bjozac]

Anyone considered that the point is to have something for robbing? I'd say that they should get all buildings in different times.
Finding someone with buildings worth robbing is what i do most in CC, and that is not very amusing. 18h, 20h, 16h what ever bring it on for some good robbing targets!

[Killa killa]

The odd collection times should add some value to your news feed links for pvp events...just saying

[Gatorade]

The odd collection times should add some value to your news feed links for pvp events...just saying

I like this 'glass half full' thinking!

[GucciMane]

I have no problem with the 20hr collect time, as others have said it will make the game more fun. Go GREE, also this bldg looks cooler than the still which was ugly as hell and a copy of the chem plant.



What I do have a problem with is that these LTBs are getting and staying very expensive to the point where it's cutting many interested players out of the loop. I can afford one of these but most of my syn cannot. And if it wasnt for me robbing 7-8M per day during the toy box event I wouldn't be "in" on these events either.

Another problem I have is the repetitiveness of the LTBs only being big Type B buildings. No, I'm not even asking for another Type A like the pagoda (though it'd be nice)..... Why not have a Dominican/GoldEquivalent type growth LTB, or, excite the gamers with a "Type D" LTB - one that starts very cheap but follows an increasing growth (with very expensive upgrades)!!!

[KemoKidd]

I have no problem with the 20hr collect time, as others have said it will make the game more fun. Go GREE, also this bldg looks cooler than the still which was ugly as hell and a copy of the chem plant.



What I do have a problem with is that these LTBs are getting and staying very expensive to the point where it's cutting many interested players out of the loop. I can afford one of these but most of my syn cannot. And if it wasnt for me robbing 7-8M per day during the toy box event I wouldn't be "in" on these events either.

Another problem I have is the repetitiveness of the LTBs only being big Type B buildings. No, I'm not even asking for another Type A like the pagoda (though it'd be nice)..... Why not have a Dominican/GoldEquivalent type growth LTB, or, excite the gamers with a "Type D" LTB - one that starts very cheap but follows an increasing growth (with very expensive upgrades)!!!

I feel like each event favors one type of player:

Pvp favors high level players with a lot of stamina
Ltq favors non campers with a lot of energy
Boss events favors campers (although loved by many)
Ltb favors high iph players
Case events (10 or 20) favor the crazy gold spenders
Wars favor Fight Club :p

[Takerinho]

is the reward list coming up?

[jmeijer]

is the reward list coming up?http://crimecityios.wikia.com/wiki/No_Interest_Savings

[bald zeemer]

That reward list is confirmed, btw.

[vert man]

For me this is pretty much a 24 hour building with a four hour window late in the morning to get robbed. And if it does get robbed, you people are acting like its 100% loss ~ and that's not the case. So even with a rob (when it occasionally will happen) still making a good chunk of money.

[SomeIdiot]

If one has limited funds but enough for some leveling of this building, what level are you working towards? Are you buying 2? The numbers justify a couple levels on 2 builds but I am curious what others are planning.

[Cobra Shuttle]

If one has limited funds but enough for some leveling of this building, what level are you working towards? Are you buying 2? The numbers justify a couple levels on 2 builds but I am curious what others are planning.

I've bought two and I'm going to upgrade one to lvl 3 for the explosive. I would like to get it to level 5 for the 1000+ stats car, but it's going to cost as much as getting my other Nightclub to lvl 7. For a 20hour building that will get robbed more than I like, I can't justify putting too much into it.

[vert man]

If you're going to get one, get two. If you can't afford two then its probably premature to be considering ltbs.

[Holicaholic]

If you're going to get one, get two. If you can't afford two then its probably premature to be considering ltbs.

No, LTBs are the new end-game building(s). And since you can only get them for a limited time I would recommend buying two. Only if, however, one of your goals is a good IPH.

[murf]

No, LTBs are the new end-game building(s). And since you can only get them for a limited time I would recommend buying two. Only if, however, one of your goals is a good IPH.

I agree with this, It may slightly slow your growth in the short-term (although only slightly), but when you build up your IpH, to just $2-3m/hr, you will have a ton of great upgrade choices....

My L112 account has an income of over $4m, this was impossible to achieve at this level before LTBs...so I think it's even more important for camper or crawlers to get these buildings, since it will be forever before they have access to the other end-game buildings...

[nopenopenope]

Until there are any signs whatsoever of the LTB's slowing/pausing, I wouldn't sweat it much.

[vert man]

No, LTBs are the new end-game building(s). And since you can only get them for a limited time I would recommend buying two. Only if, however, one of your goals is a good IPH.

I agree with the first part, but lets not forget ltbs sternly going anywhere. I said to get two as well, but if you can't afford one then it's a viscous cycle of buying expensive buildings and never being able to upgrade any of them. Just buying all the ltbs just to have them isn't really growing your hood as fast as building up at least a solid iph to support and grow them.

[murf]

I agree with the first part, but lets not forget ltbs sternly going anywhere. I said to get two as well, but if you can't afford one then it's a viscous cycle of buying expensive buildings and never being able to upgrade any of them. Just buying all the ltbs just to have them isn't really growing your hood as fast as building up at least a solid iph to support and grow them.

Yes and no...let's assume you can actually make the collections on this LTB every 20 hrs...there aren't many upgrades that are better investments than this building..NC, and some of the other LTBs...that's it really

[vert man]

Yes and no...let's assume you can actually make the collections on this LTB every 20 hrs...there aren't many upgrades that are better investments than this building..NC, and some of the other LTBs...that's it really

I believe the key component here is 'yet'. Should this have been the last LTB- absolutely buy them no matter what, but there is just too much unknown about future LTB's and how good they are other than there will be more. I'm leaving and making the point assuming these are going to stick around for a while and the probability they'll release one better than this in the future. This building, though, you're correct is a great building. I just have a personal thing against buying what you can't yet afford - to each their own :)

[c00guy]

I'd get two of these just because their IPH is so good.

Dockside Mill - $75 mil, 24k IPH; Transtech - $78 mil, 25k IPH; No Interest Savings - $78.6 mil, 50k IPH (all IPH are without bonuses).

This is like the pagoda of the expensive buildings, only difference is that it's type B. Need I say more? :D

[clemenza]

Payout is decent but 20hr collect time? It's a free cash grab on those who don't use timers. Way to stick it to the guys who have everything sync'd to 12, 24 and 48hr cycles. It's a good day to be a robber.

[nopenopenope]

This is like the pagoda of the expensive buildings, only difference is that it's type B. Need I say more?

meh, it's more in line with a Casino.

[CM Recruitment]

meh, it's more in line with a Casino.

Except upgrade times are less than half the Casino's...

[Max Power]

My L112 account has an income of over $4m, this was impossible to achieve at this level before LTBs...so I think it's even more important for camper or crawlers to get these buildings, since it will be forever before they have access to the other end-game buildings...

My level 23 account has a 2.5mil per hour income and the nightclubs are only at level 5, so I completely disagree with your first statement, but I completely agree with your second. If you are a strong camper, this thing won't get robbed anyway, and I am not sure my camper will ever see casinos, so I would recommend these to strong campers.

[murf]

My level 23 account has a 2.5mil per hour income and the nightclubs are only at level 5, so I completely disagree with your first statement, but I completely agree with your second. If you are a strong camper, this thing won't get robbed anyway, and I am not sure my camper will ever see casinos, so I would recommend these to strong campers.

OK...but how long have you had this account? With only NCs as your high-end building, it takes forever to keep funding those upgrades, and when they are upgrading, you basically cut your income in half...

[bald zeemer]

and when they are upgrading, you basically cut your income in half...
Not if you have LTBs.

[(SKK DCV)-The Joker]

I like robbing these.

[murf]

Not if you have LTBs.

Yeah, but that's was my original point...LTBs are very important for low level/camper accounts...I think the cheaper / better ROI ones (Pagoda and Toy Box, even the Still and Savings if you can collect them) are ok purchases before you upgrade your NCs to L3, because you will need these other buildings relatively quickly to help fund your NC upgrades...

if you just focus on NC upgrades to L3 before any LTBs, you may be constantly chasing the rising cost of LTBs and be stuck in a cycle of first upgrading your NC to improve your IPH, so you can "afford" the current LTB, and after you do that the next LTB is slightly more expensive...rinse, repeat, and you will end up keep chasing the "affordable" LTB

[bald zeemer]

I get your point, but I'm not sure I agree about "the rising cost of LTBs". Every 2nd one has cost around $75m. The cheaper ones have gone up a bit, and sure there hasn't been a repeat of Pagoda (for obvious reaons). That said, the Still is also incredibly powerful (and also massively underrated because people think they can keep green newsfeeds).

If someone found themselves deciding between building their first NC and buying this LTB (and I have NFI how that would ever arise, but whatever) then I'd be on the fence. Both would be hard to upgrade, and this LTB would probably give them the juice to get their NCs off the ground. With the toybox that isn't nearly as true.

I think the general rule of get 2x L3 NCs is solid. Individual circumstances may vary, but in general that'll set anyone up for future LTB works. Upgrading then being the strategic choice.


And I firmly believe that the LTBs will dry up one day, probably sooner rather than later (in a term-of-game-life sense), so paying off LTBs because you can "get one later" is silly, and not just because LTB's aren't interchangable.

[murf]

I think we're pretty much up the same page...I'm not against getting your NC upgraded obviously...and we clearly value the LTBs very highly...

The reason I stated increasing cost...is the pattern has been cheap/expensive/cheap/expensive while getting increasing more expensive

15 / 75 / 35 / 78 / 50 / 78.6....and you are right, the "expensive" ones have settled in the 75m-80m range, while the "cheap" ones are getting progressively more expensive...

On my camper (only a few months old), I have no NCs ye, but a soon to be L3 Pagoda...after that I'm not sure which way I'll be leaning, since this in on an old iPhone, I can only collect twice a day (I don't carry it around with me), so if a solid 24 hour LTB comes along in the 50m range, I'd probably opt for that rather than a NC that I'll only collect twice a day...I'll eventually build the NC, but I just think it becomes less of a priority with the LTBs if you don't have perfect collection on them

And if you believe the LTBs will dry up, it becomes even more important for a camper account to grab them if they are feasible to obtain...

[sux2lose]

I don't see this included in the hood planner yet. Is that in process? Or am I working off the wrong copy? Current hood planner spreadsheet? (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqX4lDb5cyUvdC05am9PZjlwczJ0ZkgtdWFxcVFUd 0E#gid=18)

[GQNammmer]

I don't see this included in the hood planner yet. Is that in process? Or am I working off the wrong copy? Current hood planner spreadsheet? (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqX4lDb5cyUvdC05am9PZjlwczJ0ZkgtdWFxcVFUd 0E#gid=18)

Good god. It makes my eyes twitch when i see people state the 'break even' as ROI. AARRRRRGGGH

[murf]

Good god. It makes my eyes twitch when i see people state the 'break even' as ROI. AARRRRRGGGH

Yes it should be defined as Payback Period, but not everyone on here is a finance professional, so the term kind of stuck. Just accept the fact that people use ROI as Payback Period...

[bald zeemer]

Just to clarify on ROI - since sticking to this theory completely screwed my hood for the first 6 months of playing:

ROI is based on normal investment analysis, which is based on real (ie, adjusted for inflation) returns. In CC any IPH increase acts as an an increase in inflation of the exact same % (since you increasing the money supply without increasing the supply of goods). To apply the concept of ROI as it is applied IRL you would have to adjust future returns for this inflationary effect. No existing ROI format does that, or even accounts for that. And if it did I can assure you that returns would be sub-zero, or near enough to,

And that is why ROI doesn't work.

dIPH/t, OTOH, is looking to maximise nominal returns, which in a hyperinflationary economy is the best possible return you can hope for.

[murf]

Just to clarify on ROI - since sticking to this theory completely screwed my hood for the first 6 months of playing:

ROI is based on normal investment analysis, which is based on real (ie, adjusted for inflation) returns. In CC any IPH increase acts as an an increase in inflation of the exact same % (since you increasing the money supply without increasing the supply of goods). To apply the concept of ROI as it is applied IRL you would have to adjust future returns for this inflationary effect. No existing ROI format does that, or even accounts for that. And if it did I can assure you that returns would be sub-zero, or near enough to,

And that is why ROI doesn't work.

dIPH/t, OTOH, is looking to maximise nominal returns, which in a hyperinflationary economy is the best possible return you can hope for.

While I understand your points against ROI, I disagree with you on dIPH/t. There is no way that you can conduct an investment analysis solely on a formula that does not include the cost the investment.

The answer lies somewhere in between the two. The GFI formula proposed (by Ram, I think) about a year ago, is the closest to combining the two concepts into one formula, but it's too simplistic for me, but I do find that it lines up with my thinking quite well most of the time.

I will continue to maintain my art/science approach of looking at both ROI and dIPH/t and then choosing what I deem to be the best upgrade at the time.

[bald zeemer]

While I understand your points against ROI, I disagree with you on dIPH/t. There is no way that you can conduct an investment analysis solely on a formula that does not include the cost the investment.

The answer lies somewhere in between the two. The GFI formula proposed (by Ram, I think) about a year ago, is the closest to combining the two concepts into one formula, but it's too simplistic for me, but I do find that it lines up with my thinking quite well most of the time.

I will continue to maintain my art/science approach of looking at both ROI and dIPH/t and then choosing what I deem to be the best upgrade at the time.

You could use ROI, if you discounted the inflationary effect - but as I alluded to (or stated outright? I'm not bother to re-read my last comment) I'm fairly certain it'd break down completely.

The simple fact is that dIPH/t with net saving/cost listed allows you to always make the best available dIPH/t investment aviliable, and to plan to make the best investments in the future. Yes, this approach implies an inflationary effect of infinity, but since the ROIs are (in terms of RL investments) so abysmal for any reasonable suggestion then for all intents and purposes dIPH is 100% accurate.

The only art/science crossover should be when collection times come into play on similarly rated investments/upgrades. And given just how powerful modern LTBs are compared to everything else, that situation should rarely arise.

[murf]

You could use ROI, if you discounted the inflationary effect - but as I alluded to (or stated outright? I'm not bother to re-read my last comment) I'm fairly certain it'd break down completely.

The simple fact is that dIPH/t with net saving/cost listed allows you to always make the best available dIPH/t investment aviliable, and to plan to make the best investments in the future. Yes, this approach implies an inflationary effect of infinity, but since the ROIs are (in terms of RL investments) so abysmal for any reasonable suggestion then for all intents and purposes dIPH is 100% accurate.

The only art/science crossover should be when collection times come into play on similarly rated investments/upgrades. And given just how powerful modern LTBs are compared to everything else, that situation should rarely arise.

I did read your previous post, Baldie...And I do respect where you are coming from, but honestly, ignoring the inflationary effect or saying it's infinity, is equally inaccurate in my opinion.

My two main arguments against pure dIpH/t are 1) not including cost (but you've made your argument against this) and 2) it assumes infinite cash on hand as well.

And for the vast majority (99%+) of us, have to save to pay for these expensive upgrades, so whether our best upgrade takes 24hrs, 36hrs, or 100 hrs, is really not a huge deal, because we would still have to save for the next expensive upgrade.

[MichelleEvelyncc]

I don't see this included in the hood planner yet. Is that in process? Or am I working off the wrong copy? Current hood planner spreadsheet? (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqX4lDb5cyUvdC05am9PZjlwczJ0ZkgtdWFxcVFUd 0E#gid=18)

It takes just a couple of minutes to put the data in there yourself; you can get all that's needed from here (crimecityios.wikia.com/wiki/No_Interest_Savings).

[zwiswoo]

When your primary upgrade is basically the next LTB, what you really need is a good secondary upgrade to fill in the gaps while you save for it. Here I'll plug my favored way of picking upgrades: it's dIPH/t but t is upgrade time + hours to save for upgrade. It recognizes that you want to gain IPH from the gap upgrades, but also that you don't want to waste cash on them. It's a good choice particularly for people who don't rob or get robbed much, and the list of upgrades sorted in this variable looks quite sensible. Especially these days when every other top upgrade as listed by dIPH/t is too expensive to do, or not even worth doing given the price.

[murf]

When your primary upgrade is basically the next LTB, what you really need is a good secondary upgrade to fill in the gaps while you save for it. Here I'll plug my favored way of picking upgrades: it's dIPH/t but t is upgrade time + hours to save for upgrade. It recognizes that you want to gain IPH from the gap upgrades, but also that you don't want to waste cash on them. It's a good choice particularly for people who don't rob or get robbed much, and the list of upgrades sorted in this variable looks quite sensible. Especially these days when every other top upgrade as listed by dIPH/t is too expensive to do, or not even worth doing given the price.

I like this approach, this is exactly what GFI does(again I think Ram proposed this)...

GFI = dIPH / (time to save + upgrade time)

My only concern with it is it gives equal weights to dIpH, Current IpH & upgrade time. This is where I have no intuitive feel as to whether this should be the case or not. So, I look at this, as well as ROI and dIPH/t together and make an educated decision.

P.S. I think I've mentioned this before, but one adjustment I use for upgrade cost is I add in the lost income. This again favors shorter upgrade times, since you lose less income, therefore costing you less.

[zwiswoo]

My only concern with it is it gives equal weights to dIpH, Current IpH & upgrade time. This is where I have no intuitive feel as to whether this should be the case or not. So, I look at this, as well as ROI and dIPH/t together and make an educated decision.

(I think) the weight attached to income increase is arbitrary and makes no difference. You only care about the relative weight between upgrade time and save time. That's hard to get a handle on, since technically they're just separate variables, and you should be looking at dIPH/t1 and dIPH/t2. In the past I actually used (arbitrarily) 2:1 weights between the two times, out of a sense that upgrade time was the scarcer commodity. Now that LTB upgrades are cost limited, I think it makes sense to weigh save time as highly as upgrade time. Maybe even higher, provided you're only using the measure to pick secondary upgrades.

I also use the regular dIPH/time (the one that comes with the itzkakarot spreadsheet) together with this "GFI" measure, but for the life of me I can't figure out a use for the RoI/breakeven time! Maybe I'll figure it out from your earlier comments here.

[murf]

(I think) the weight attached to income increase is arbitrary and makes no difference. You only care about the relative weight between upgrade time and save time. That's hard to get a handle on, since technically they're just separate variables, and you should be looking at dIPH/t1 and dIPH/t2. In the past I actually used (arbitrarily) 2:1 weights between the two times, out of a sense that upgrade time was the scarcer commodity. Now that LTB upgrades are cost limited, I think it makes sense to weigh save time as highly as upgrade time. Maybe even higher, provided you're only using the measure to pick secondary upgrades.

I also use the regular dIPH/time (the one that comes with the itzkakarot spreadsheet) together with this "GFI" measure, but for the life of me I can't figure out a use for the RoI/breakeven time! Maybe I'll figure it out from your earlier comments here.

Simply put the way I look at it:

-Cost/dIPH (ROI) = measures the upgrades efficiency in regards to $$. Flip the equation over and it's earnings yield.
-dIPH/upgrade time = measures the upgrades efficiency in regards to time.
-dIPH /(upgrade time + save time) (GFI) = measures upgrade efficiency in regards to both time and $$ as a function of your current IpH

To me each one of these is useful, however none (at least to me) are the ultimate answer to the question of what's the best upgrade...so I use all three.

[GQNammmer]

I love how my little comment about the difference between breakeven and ROI has sparked up a mid-high level discussion of financial economics for CC lol.

[murf]

I love how my little comment about the difference between breakeven and ROI has sparked up a mid-high level discussion of financial economics for CC lol.

Haha....this isn't the first of these debates, and I'm sure it won't be the last...

[MattThomas08]

Simply put the way I look at it:

-Cost/dIPH (ROI) = measures the upgrades efficiency in regards to $$. Flip the equation over and it's earnings yield.
-dIPH/upgrade time = measures the upgrades efficiency in regards to time.
-dIPH /(upgrade time + save time) (GFI) = measures upgrade efficiency in regards to both time and $$ as a function of your current IpH

To me each one of these is useful, however none (at least to me) are the ultimate answer to the question of what's the best upgrade...so I use all three.

I think it's time for me to throw my hat into this argument. Just to get me caught up, you guys are talking about some sort of math right?

[zwiswoo]

Simply put the way I look at it:

-Cost/dIPH (ROI) = measures the upgrades efficiency in regards to $$. Flip the equation over and it's earnings yield.


Hmm, I see your point now. RoI is meaningful because it's basically something like the inverse of dIPH/save time, but using only the building's own cost. One point to remember then is that what really matters is absolute differences in 1/RoI, not in RoI. It's the same point that's made for miles per gallon versus gallons per mile (except that you want to keep costs low, not high). I think.

[TMI]

Does this really require solving derivatives!? :S

[MattThomas08]

Does this really require solving derivatives!? :S

Actually, derivatives might not be a bad idea. They could help alleviate some risk or provide some opportunity for big profit along with some risks. We will need to comply with the http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodd%E2%80%93Frank_Wall_Street_Reform_and_Consumer _Protection_Act.

[GQNammmer]

Actually, derivatives might not be a bad idea. They could help alleviate some risk or provide some opportunity for big profit along with some risks. We will need to comply with the http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodd%E2%80%93Frank_Wall_Street_Reform_and_Consumer _Protection_Act.

Well I suppose if you throw risk in the mix, it would complicate things much more. Unfortunately risk cannot be accurately evaluated due to the lack of information that's available. To calculate risk one needs to first know the following:

1. How often do you log into your game to collect buildings. The risk levels would be broken down to
i) Once every 24 hours
ii) Once every 12 hours
iii)Once every 6 hours
etc. etc. etc.
A player can actually consider himself at zero risk if he doesn't sleep and/or sets timers for all of his building collections. Although this may sound highly unlikely, I'm sure there are a few individuals out there that would be considered zero risk.

2. Another factor a player must consider is how strong their defensive stats are compared to attack stats of other players within their level. This is where the inaccuracy of risk comes into play due to lack of information as one doesn't really know how many players are within their level. I suppose you can gather a sample size by visiting your rival list and gather their attack stats. I would recommend a sample size of 200 or higher. You would then segregate the players that have attack stats that are within the limits of being able to rob you. I'm unsure what the threshold for attack stats vs defensive stats to acquire a 100% rate of successful robberies. Personally, I've gotten about a 90-95% success rate when robbing rivals who have raw defensive stats of 20% higher than my attack stats.

Once that is all done, you want to further create 3-4 sub groups of the players who fall in the range that are able to rob you. You want to compare the frequency/activity each player has. If the player has a lot of robs, that player would be considered high risk and gets thrown into that category.

3. Lastly, you want to make sure your user name is "Alex". If it is not, more than likely a high risk player would be able to find you with ease.

Shall I continue? lol

[MattThomas08]

Shall I continue? lol

Would you?

[Euchred]

Finished another one up free of charge FWIW
Came along with a nice IPH boost (broke 20 mil) albeit aesthetic due to the wonky collection cycle
http://i.imgur.com/aLejBBFl.jpg

[Cobra Shuttle]

Nice! How much did you have saved up before the event?

[Euchred]

Nice! How much did you have saved up before the event?

I can't remember couldn't have been much more then 4 but I still have 3.5 billion left over and have donated a billion in the last week.

#smugginrich

[rhyno]

Be nice if there was not building next time so i could try an upgrade my other buildings so i can roll with the big boys lol

[Idiosyncrasy]

What would be better - upgrading to level 2 for the item or building a second building? Both are limited time opportunities and I only have enough cash to do one.

[Holicaholic]

Build a second. Always more weapons, the buildings are (as the name suggests) limited.

[Antheus]

Build a second. Always more weapons, the buildings are (as the name suggests) limited.

....second LTB doesn't give you any extra toys.....am I wrong ? ...[doubt^*].....

[Cobra Shuttle]

It doesn't give you extra toys, but the extra income it provides will help so next time you don't have to choose, you may be able to do both.

[jmeijer]

....second LTB doesn't give you any extra toys.....am I wrong ? ...[doubt^*].....Based on the payout/hr at level 10, this LTB is the second best building in the game, only after the NC. You don't want to miss one.

[c00guy]

I'd say if your NCs are level 3, go for the upgrade. Otherwise upgrade your NCs. This LTB might be one of the highest IPH buildings but at your IPH you got plenty of better options and don't need this one yet.

[Antheus]

It doesn't give you extra toys, but the extra income it provides will help so next time you don't have to choose, you may be able to do both.

.....I just hope that level 222 doesn't make everybody so stupid.....the issue was if the second LTB gives you extra weapons...ant it doesn't....you are just an idiot like the other(s)...who probably spent too much time on this game and learned s....t....

[Cobra Shuttle]

Are you high?

[jmeijer]

Are you high?Just report and move on. The post he made was idiotic.

[MichelleEvelyncc]

I wonder.....how....he talks.....in real life.....and...if his......listening skills....are.....up to par.....with his reading....skills...pretty sure.....he uses a respirator.

[murf]

Based on the payout/hr at level 10, this LTB is the second best building in the game, only after the NC. You don't want to miss one.

If the Wiki is right, the next one will be even better...almost the same ROI schedule, better collection time 26hr > 20hr and slightly more expensive, so better $$/hr/hr ratio....

[Antheus]

Just report and move on. The post he made was idiotic.

....Idiots unlimited unite !........ok...you united....enjoy.....

[jmeijer]

If the Wiki is right, the next one will be even better...almost the same ROI schedule, better collection time 26hr > 20hr and slightly more expensive, so better $$/hr/hr ratio....Exactly, I checked that too. It pays $2,379,807/hr at level 10, the LTB's get better and better. I wonder when the $3.007.512/hr (out of my head, don't know if it's right but I must be close) from the NC gets broken.. I guess we don't have to wait long..

Anyway, I think that Gree could make much more money with LTB's if they keep upgrade costs low, but make upgrade times high. People would have to use gold to finish it, but more people would have enough cash on hand to at least consider spending gold. Now, it's just the >20mil/hr guys who are able to finish the LTB's. Not me with my 12m/hr..

[murf]

Exactly, I checked that too. It pays $2,379,807/hr at level 10, the LTB's get better and better. I wonder when the $3.007.512/hr (out of my head, don't know if it's right but I must be close) from the NC gets broken.. I guess we don't have to wait long..

Anyway, I think that Gree could make much more money with LTB's if they keep upgrade costs low, but make upgrade times high. People would have to use gold to finish it, but more people would have enough cash on hand to at least consider spending gold. Now, it's just the >20mil/hr guys who are able to finish the LTB's. Not me with my 12m/hr..

I right there with you jmeijer....I have now decided to only take the LTB to L6 and then go back and upgrade the other LTB building and brought one of my NCs to L9.