Next War : Weak First Prize

[SilentAssassin]

Well we all know FC gets it but I'd still like to say this prize could be a little better.

Not worth the money IMO

[Poon]

Hopefully they change it again like last war...1st place prize is absolute garbage.

[Smarty Pants]

Thats never stopped them from going for it, i completely agree with grees decision. If there is going to be no competition for the #1 spot then the prize should indeed be crappy 95% of the time.

[187omni]

it would b a nice top 75/25 prize....

[Sandukan]

Thats never stopped them from going for it, i completely agree with grees decision. If there is going to be no competition for the #1 spot then the prize should indeed be crappy 95% of the time.
This is one of the dumbest post I've read in a while.

[Smarty Pants]

This is one of the dumbest post I've read in a while.

Care to back up such a bold statement?

[Back hand emus]

Smarty pants might not be the brightest crayon in the box but he is absolutely right

[candyson]

I think what he's trying to say is that SAS is ready fight for number 1 if it had a better reward.

[Thief]

Thats never stopped them from going for it, i completely agree with grees decision. If there is going to be no competition for the #1 spot then the prize should indeed be crappy 95% of the time.

Actually its smart on Grees part. Why make the game more unbalanced then it already is?
If everyone knows who is going to be in first place it becomes more about the bragging right than the prizes and gree should actually make an effort to balance the game.

Where they should offer the best rewards is where there is the most competition....to push those to spend money who are on the fence.

[Sandukan]

Care to back up such a bold statement?
So because one group of people play to win then the first prize should be crappy? On what planet does that make sense?

[jayrok]

Its a virtual prize...its not real...its just a bunch of 11100001110000001010000. You guys take this too serious.

[Smarty Pants]

So because one group of people play to win then the first prize should be crappy? On what planet does that make sense?

No it's because they're the ONLY team that plays to win. The less competition; the crappier the prize and likewise for the opposite. If you don't understand this basic concept of competitive gaming then i suggest you should stop posting before you embarrass yourself further. Why gree give out and amazing #1 prize every fight when FC is the only who is going to go for it.

I live on planet Earth how about you?

[murf]

This is one of the dumbest post I've read in a while.

Agreed....punish the guys who decide to spend the most money, because they always spend the most money....nice business model...

I love that everyone's business plan for balance entails pissing of the guys who spend the most money...

[Sandukan]

Its a virtual prize...its not real...its just a bunch of 11100001110000001010000. You guys take this too serious.
This is true and it's not that serious.
Ridiculous statements should never go unchallenged though.

[jchow69]

My stats just got much better in the WD event, but I can't believe that there wasn't a boss event!

[Smarty Pants]

Agreed....punish the guys who decide to spend the most money, because they always spend the most money....nice business model...

I love that everyone's business plan for balance entails pissing of the guys who spend the most money...

The reward they get for spending the most money is the #1 title AND being the only team to recieve EVERY single war prize, what else should they get? You always put the most enticing prize in the most competitive bracket to generate ythe most competition in order to create the highest revenue; it's common business sense bro. Normally Top 1 would be the most competitive position in any other scenario but in CC that is not the case therefore the best modifier will naturally be placed lower for teams that actually compete.

I suggest you take Business Marketing, you learn many real life skills that you can apply to countless real world conversations and problems.

[SilentAssassin]

The reward they get for spending the most money is the #1 title AND being the only team to recieve EVERY single war prize, what else should they get? You always put the most enticing prize in the most competitive bracket to generate ythe most competition in order to create the highest revenue; it's common business sense bro. Normally Top 1 would be the most competitive position in any other scenario but in CC that is not the case therefore the best modifier will naturally be placed lower for teams that actually compete.

I suggest you take Business Marketing, you learn many real life skills that you can apply to countless real world conversations and problems.

He is right . Clearly the spot to have next war is 3rd place and top 10

[murf]

The reward they get for spending the most money is the #1 title AND being the only team to recieve EVERY single war prize, what else should they get? You always put the most enticing prize in the most competitive bracket to generate ythe most competition in order to create the highest revenue; it's common business sense bro. Normally Top 1 would be the most competitive position in any other scenario but in CC that is not the case therefore the best modifier will naturally be placed lower for teams that actually compete.

I suggest you take Business Marketing, you learn many real life skills that you can apply to countless real world conversations and problems.

Can you please give me some real life examples?

How's this?

A business has one salesman who consistently generates the most business and therefore receives the largest bonus. But there could be an incredible competition for being the 100th best salesmen if only the incentive was better, so let's make the bonus for being the 100th salesperson almost equivalent to being the 1st, this way we encourage competition there....

Oh wait...or did we encourage everyone to make sure they are in the top 100, because they have little incentive to do better....and, oh yeah, we've just pissed off our best salesperson and he left for a competitor...oops

[jchow69]

So long as I get my top 400 prizes and there are no prize glitches, all is fine.

[Sandukan]

The reward they get for spending the most money is the #1 title AND being the only team to recieve EVERY single war prize, what else should they get? You always put the most enticing prize in the most competitive bracket to generate ythe most competition in order to create the highest revenue; it's common business sense bro. Normally Top 1 would be the most competitive position in any other scenario but in CC that is not the case therefore the best modifier will naturally be placed lower for teams that actually compete.

I suggest you take Business Marketing, you learn many real life skills that you can apply to countless real world conversations and problems.
So in the olympics if an athlete continues to dominate the gold medal goes to second or third?
Which business offers their high end product to their low end customers?

[Smarty Pants]

Can you please give me some real life examples?

How's this?

A business has one salesman who consistently generates the most business and therefore receives the largest bonus. But there could be an incredible competition for being the 100th best salesmen if only the incentive was better, so let's make the bonus for being the 100th salesperson almost equivalent to being the 1st, this way we encourage competition there....

Oh wait...or did we encourage everyone to make sure they are in the top 100, because they have little incentive to do better....and, oh yeah, we've just pissed off our best salesperson and he left for a competitor...oops

You just gave me a real life example (which you didn't word properly) so I'll use your example and relate it to Crime City so i can help you understand better.

Normally under the typical "Laissez-Faire" motto the best salesmen would (and should) receive the best prize BUT that is only by making the fatal assumption that all the salesman stand a somewhat reasonable chance at winning. Reverting your scenario into Crime City would be something like the following:

You start a company and have 100 salesman your first year, you decide to have a contest to see who the #1 salesman is and they will receive a $10,000 increase in commission. 5 years have passed and you have had Fight Club, your #1 salesman 5 years in a row, completely dominating the competition every year to the point where the other 99 salesman no longer bother to compete with Fight Club and on top of that Fight Club only lands the necessary amount of sales to assure his rule remains uninterrupted. Now not only have you caused your "#1 employee" to become lazy by only making enough sales to get by but now you've also completely decimated the moral of your entire salesman force as a whole. See the problem?

I hope i was able to explain this better to you, if not then just say so and I'll break it down further.

[jopdermod]

You just gave me a real life example (which you didn't word properly) so I'll use your example and relate it to Crime City so i can help you understand better.

Normally under the typical "Laissez-Faire" motto the best salesmen would (and should) receive the best prize BUT that is only by making the fatal assumption that all the salesman stand a somewhat reasonable chance at winning. Reverting your scenario into Crime City would be something like the following:

You start a company and have 100 salesman your first year, you decide to have a contest to see who the #1 salesman is and they will receive a $10,000 increase in commission. 5 years have passed and you have had Fight Club, your #1 salesman 5 years in a row, completely dominating the competition every year to the point where the other 99 salesman no longer bother to compete with Fight Club and on top of that Fight Club only lands the necessary amount of sales to assure his rule remains uninterrupted. Now not only have you caused your "#1 employee" to become lazy by only making enough sales to get by but now you've also completely decimated the moral of your entire salesman force as a whole. See the problem?

I hope i was able to explain this better to you, if not then just say so and I'll break it down further.

That sounds like taking a freak to a miss election and demanding a fair chance!
Or letting a snail race Usain Bolt.

Ever thought about the fact that the top makes sure the rest have a job?

[Smarty Pants]

That sounds like taking a freak to a miss election and demanding a fair chance!
Or letting a snail race Usain Bolt.

Ever thought about the fact that the top makes sure the rest have a job?

Your analogies are a little off, no one is demanding for a fair chance (quite the opposite) FC earns the right to keep their throne every time the spend 10's of thousands of dollars each tri-week. What I'm saying is that Gree makes much more profit by putting the best mod in the most competitive bracket (which is what they do 95% of the time).

As for your "Ever thought about the top making sure the rest have a job" is a terrible business model. It's widely accepted that America's "1%" higher echelon runs the countries day to day business and essentially "makes sure the rest have jobs" and you can see how that is working out for us lately. Granted that example does translate over poorly as those are due to numerous other factors, the point is what you deem as "the top" is not FC; it's whoever can give gree the most money and last time i checked 100 syndicates going for a kick ass top25 prize with all their heart generates fathoms more income than FC could ever dream of.

[OffensivelyNamedGuy]

I won't lie I didn't read many of the posts but don't forget.. Fight club also gets all the lower prizes as well, which people seem to be forgetting in their silly analogies. Even if #1 is ****, they still benefit the most. Plus bragging rights naturally, which obviously are quite valuable to them.

[Smarty Pants]

I won't lie I didn't read many of the posts but don't forget.. Fight club also gets all the lower prizes as well, which people seem to be forgetting in their silly analogies. Even if #1 is ****, they still benefit the most. Plus bragging rights naturally, which obviously are quite valuable to them.

This is true as well, proving my point.

[murf]

You just gave me a real life example (which you didn't word properly) so I'll use your example and relate it to Crime City so i can help you understand better.

Normally under the typical "Laissez-Faire" motto the best salesmen would (and should) receive the best prize BUT that is only by making the fatal assumption that all the salesman stand a somewhat reasonable chance at winning. Reverting your scenario into Crime City would be something like the following:

You start a company and have 100 salesman your first year, you decide to have a contest to see who the #1 salesman is and they will receive a $10,000 increase in commission. 5 years have passed and you have had Fight Club, your #1 salesman 5 years in a row, completely dominating the competition every year to the point where the other 99 salesman no longer bother to compete with Fight Club and on top of that Fight Club only lands the necessary amount of sales to assure his rule remains uninterrupted. Now not only have you caused your "#1 employee" to become lazy by only making enough sales to get by but now you've also completely decimated the moral of your entire salesman force as a whole. See the problem?

I hope i was able to explain this better to you, if not then just say so and I'll break it down further.

Where does it say that rewarding the top producer/customer/client and creating competition further down the scale have to be mutually exclusive?

Also, what economic principle or marketing tenet states that a flatter reward scale produces greater results...I'd be interested in reading that....

Oh, and no thanks on the econ/marketing lessons, I'm pretty happy with my business acumen, seeing that I've made more in a single year personally, then the majority of Americans make in a lifetime.

[Smarty Pants]

Where does it say that rewarding the top producer/customer/client and creating competition further down the scale have to be mutually exclusive?

Also, what economic principle or marketing tenet states that a flatter reward scale produces greater results...I'd be interested in reading that....

Oh, and no thanks on the econ/marketing lessons, I'm pretty happy with my business acumen, seeing that I've made more in a single year personally, then the majority of Americans make in a lifetime.

Stupid people make money all the time, it's nothing boast worthy especially on an online forum.

I was trying to break it down for you using your own analogy but it appears you got lost again so i'm going to put it bluntly referencing two earlier posts in hopes that you'll finally understand common business sense in terms of GREE's situation.

FC will receive any and all prizes including the best prize regardless of where its placed in the prize list so why make the best mod in the #1 spot where it won't generate competition.

Also FC is already considered gods among men so why make the best prizes exclusive to an elite 60 just because they spend X number of dollars when the other 600 can spend 10x that much. There's no reason to purposefully tip the scales any further.

I hope this helped enlighten you.

[murf]

Stupid people make money all the time, it's nothing boast worthy especially on an online forum.

I was trying to break it down for you using your own analogy but it appears you got lost again so i'm going to put it bluntly referencing two earlier posts in hopes that you'll finally understand common business sense in terms of GREE's situation.

FC will receive any and all prizes including the best prize regardless of where its placed in the prize list so why make the best mod in the #1 spot where it won't generate competition.

Also FC is already considered gods among men so why make the best prizes exclusive to an elite 60 just because they spend X number of dollars when the other 600 can spend 10x that much. There's no reason to purposefully tip the scales any further.

I hope this helped enlighten you.

Last post, because I'm not sure why I waste my time banging my head against the wall with you....

But, you chose not to answer any of my questions:

1) why is rewarding 1st & 25th mutually exclusive? (I don't care that 1st gets both, see #2)

2) What principle states that flat reward scale = greater productivity/sales/etc


If you continually refuse to reward your #1 customer/client/producer over your next 10/25/100, you will continually risk seeing that #1 customer/producer leave for a competitor, who actually pays/rewards for performance. How long is your business successful when your #1 customer/producer keeps leaving for your competitor?

[jfeezy1210]

Can you please give me some real life examples?

How's this?

A business has one salesman who consistently generates the most business and therefore receives the largest bonus. But there could be an incredible competition for being the 100th best salesmen if only the incentive was better, so let's make the bonus for being the 100th salesperson almost equivalent to being the 1st, this way we encourage competition there....

Oh wait...or did we encourage everyone to make sure they are in the top 100, because they have little incentive to do better....and, oh yeah, we've just pissed off our best salesperson and he left for a competitor...oops

This is very true, but guess what you just did? You created an incentive for all the other salesman to be in the top 100 so you've created a GROUP of people selling their *ss off to get that prize and they collectively created so much more revenue than that 1 person it doesn't matter if he leaves or not, now does it?

[murf]

This is very true, but guess what you just did? You created an incentive for all the other salesman to be in the top 100 so you've created a GROUP of people selling their *ss off to get that prize and they collectively created so much more revenue than that 1 person it doesn't matter if he leaves or not, now does it?

But what if you could do both?

Why does creating incentives for #1 have to be mutually exclusive from creating incentives for #100?

[murf]

This is very true, but guess what you just did? You created an incentive for all the other salesman to be in the top 100 so you've created a GROUP of people selling their *ss off to get that prize and they collectively created so much more revenue than that 1 person it doesn't matter if he leaves or not, now does it?

But what if you could do both?

Why does creating incentives for #1 have to be mutually exclusive from creating incentives for #100?

[montecore]

Well we all know FC gets it but I'd still like to say this prize could be a little better.

Not worth the money IMO

You're right. Let's let FC win again.

[jfeezy1210]

But what if you could do both?

Why does creating incentives for #1 have to be mutually exclusive from creating incentives for #100?

idk really, I don't work for GREE and although I have spent money of gold, I don't spend nearly as much others. If there was a way to make everything more balanced AND still make the #1 spot more competitive then it would have to start with the main issues of this game e.g. cheaters, glitches like the current one with AR Machine Gun. I honestly don't see myself EVER spending thousands of dollars on just one war, it's not realistic to me.

[Smarty Pants]

But what if you could do both?

Why does creating incentives for #1 have to be mutually exclusive from creating incentives for #100?

It has nothing to do with being mutually exclusive, #1 doesn't need to score a set amount they just need to outrun everyone else. Their points soley depend on how hard they are pushed there is 0 competition for them. You seem to be the only person refusing to understand the extremely basic concept, is it out of stubbornness or just sheer ignorance?

[montecore]

It has nothing to do with being mutually exclusive, #1 doesn't need to score a set amount they just need to outrun everyone else. Their points soley depend on how hard they are pushed there is 0 competition for them. You seem to be the only person refusing to understand the extremely basic concept, is it out of stubbornness or just sheer ignorance?

I do think making the #1 prize a great one is kind of pointless. I think Gree would make the most money with a really great top 3, top 10, or top 25 prize as a lot of teams would be fighting for it.

[Smarty Pants]

I do think making the #1 prize a great one is kind of pointless. I think Gree would make the most money with a really great top 3, top 10, or top 25 prize as a lot of teams would be fighting for it.

My point exactly! Murf seems to be struggling to understand this concept

[murf]

It has nothing to do with being mutually exclusive, #1 doesn't need to score a set amount they just need to outrun everyone else. Their points soley depend on how hard they are pushed there is 0 competition for them. You seem to be the only person refusing to understand the extremely basic concept, is it out of stubbornness or just sheer ignorance?


Please answer this question....Why can't you do both? Why does FC getting a great #1 prize preclude you from making a great #3 prize?

I can't believe you are saying that FC doesn't deserve some pixelated item for 1st place because they are so much better then everyone else...

[murf]

I do think making the #1 prize a great one is kind of pointless. I think Gree would make the most money with a really great top 3, top 10, or top 25 prize as a lot of teams would be fighting for it.

I'm not disagreeing that top3, top10 or top25 would make more money...that's obvious.

But, why would you give a crappy prize to #1 (even if it doesn't matter) since you risk someone getting pissed off and quitting...

[Smarty Pants]

Please answer this question....Why can't you do both? Why does FC getting a great #1 prize preclude you from making a great #3 prize?

I can't believe you are saying that FC doesn't deserve some pixelated item for 1st place because they are so much better then everyone else...

Thats exactly what im saying, theres no reason to keep giving fc 20% gun attack increase mods, then you end up with 60 players with a literal 10million stat gap from the rest of the world. Thats bad business bro dont be dumb

[montecore]

I'm not disagreeing that top3, top10 or top25 would make more money...that's obvious.

But, why would you give a crappy prize to #1 (even if it doesn't matter) since you risk someone getting pissed off and quitting...

Thinking linearly, you are correct. The best prize should go to first place. But thinking about it from Gree's perspective, they want to make the most money. And they could make the top modifier +500 mafia or a nuke with 1mm attack/defense and it's safe to say FC would still win it, and probably not spend any extra to do so.

And then FC would be even more powerful. What benefit is it to Gree? They have more incentive to make the first place prize lackluster.

[murf]

Thinking linearly, you are correct. The best prize should go to first place. But thinking about it from Gree's perspective, they want to make the most money. And they could make the top modifier +500 mafia or a nuke with 1mm attack/defense and it's safe to say FC would still win it, and probably not spend any extra to do so.

And then FC would be even more powerful. What benefit is it to Gree? They have more incentive to make the first place prize lackluster.

I see your point...and I'm not suggesting anything like that, but 20% hideout? come on...I think there's more risk in pissing off a FC member or 2 or 10, then making them bored by giving them a 25% reduction in upgrade time or +15% gun attack (since they can attack everyone now anyway)

[Smarty Pants]

I see your point...and I'm not suggesting anything like that, but 20% hideout? come on...I think there's more risk in pissing off a FC member or 2 or 10, then making them bored by giving them a 25% reduction in upgrade time or +15% gun attack (since they can attack everyone now anyway)

Pssssh do you really think they care if the make big bad FC mad? GREE has FC under their thumb more than any other syndicate out there. Despite everything they still spend tens of thousands of dollars, crack addicts don't get mad and quit when the seller dilutes the product by half, they just buy twice as much to get the same effect.

[murf]

Pssssh do you really think they care if the make big bad FC mad? GREE has FC under their thumb more than any other syndicate out there. Despite everything they still spend tens of thousands of dollars, crack addicts don't get mad and quit when the seller dilutes the product by half, they just buy twice as much to get the same effect.

OK...clearly we have different views on how to run a business...I'm going to choose to cater to my top clients/customers and make sure they are happy so they stay with my company and continue to spend money as they have....you can choose to treat your's like crap...that's fine with me

[Smarty Pants]

OK...clearly we have different views on how to run a business...I'm going to choose to cater to my top clients/customers and make sure they are happy so they stay with my company and continue to spend money as they have....you can choose to treat your's like crap...that's fine with me

Obviously they are happy if they continue to spend, so you finally agree with me; GREE's doing it right.

[OffensivelyNamedGuy]

I guess fight club should just let someone else have first place. LOL.

Lets face it, folks. Fight club is not in it for the #1 prize, they are in it for the prestige. Gree knows it. They aren't worried about losing their business because this is NOT business. It's a game. In business, if you change suppliers you don't have to start from scratch. It's not an investment, Gree doesn't have to worry about giving any of these folks money back so they can invest it somewhere else. Gree got them by the balls now. Walk away, lose thousands of dollars. Don't spend, lose your prestige.

[MattThomas08]

Well we all know FC gets it but I'd still like to say this prize could be a little better.

Not worth the money IMO

I told myself I wouldn't troll SAS threads, but SilentAssassin and Montecore are making it really hard on me with this one.

[murf]

Obviously they are happy if they continue to spend, so you finally agree with me; GREE's doing it right.

Uhm, didn't Gree give them the coveted +1 upgrade last war...so, yes, I think they are doing it right....

[the_brein]

FC must have pissed gree off somehow.

[SilentAssassin]

I told myself I wouldn't troll SAS threads, but SilentAssassin and Montecore are making it really hard on me with this one.

There are some pretty good thoughts in this thread. I guess you can't see them sitting far away in third place. I've got a closer view than you in second place so I don't blame you

[Tomatoneverdie]

A great #1 prize would promote Rouge or SAS to fight FC for it. With this crappy one, SAS and Rouge would just ensure they are inside Top3 to secure the #3 prize. Simple as that....

[Vito Corleone]

Since the event hasn't started yet the 1st prize can still change...

[Ragmondino]

A great #1 prize would promote Rouge or SAS to fight FC for it. With this crappy one, SAS and Rouge would just ensure they are inside Top3 to secure the #3 prize. Simple as that....

It wouldn't because they can't.
No matter how good or bad that prize is they know they don't have the ability to beat FC.
This has been proved when there have been great prizes.

[Butt Futter]

I think what he's trying to say is that SAS is ready fight for number 1 if it had a better reward.

hahah

No, no they are not.

[Wang]

They go for first for the tittle of being first, not always the item.

[Vito Corleone]

They go for first for the tittle of being first, not always the item.Who wants to be 2nd?

[Butt Futter]

Who wants to be 2nd?

Depends on the prize, but for this war, I'd gladly prefer 2nd over 1st.

[bald zeemer]

Assuming, of course, that first didn't also get the 2nd place prize. In which, as an englishman long dead once said, lies the rub.

[jchow69]

Weak first prize=Gree losing business

[bald zeemer]

The trend has been for every second first place prize to be quite weak. Not sure I've seen evidence of Gree losing business (in these games - please don't post lower stock prices based on the collapse of Japanese games).

[Trev]

You're right. Let's let FC win again.

do sas want a first!!! lets all spend less ;)

[Vito Corleone]

Depends on the prize, but for this war, I'd gladly prefer 2nd over 1st.So u mean u will join SAS like many of your old teammates?:rolleyes:

[bald zeemer]

I should also note that as a first prize this actually has some real benefit, as insurance.

Assuming that one day a team is able to challenge for first, most likely it'll be a case of a 3-day sprint for the finish line. 20% improved hideout damage means more time (to the tune of maybe 10-15 seconds, but whatever) hitting the opposition, therefore higher IP per war.

Completely pointless if it's a top 3 or lower prize, but actually handy (in the off chance) as a prize for only one team.

[Riss]

I should also note that as a first prize this actually has some real benefit, as insurance.

Assuming that one day a team is able to challenge for first, most likely it'll be a case of a 3-day sprint for the finish line. 20% improved hideout damage means more time (to the tune of maybe 10-15 seconds, but whatever) hitting the opposition, therefore higher IP per war.

Completely pointless if it's a top 3 or lower prize, but actually handy (in the off chance) as a prize for only one team.

Not when stats get inflated to the point that walls will be taken down in one hit even without wall damage modifier bonuses.

[bald zeemer]

There's a cap on wall damage, and it's hit pretty early.

The last 2m+ of atk has added exactly 0 to my wall damaging abilities.

[Riss]

There's a cap on wall damage, and it's hit pretty early.

The last 2m+ of atk has added exactly 0 to my wall damaging abilities.

Wasn't aware of that. So if there's a cap, would that make the 20% wall damage modifier on the top prize pretty much worthless then?

Or would the bonus be applied after the cap?

[Butt Futter]

So u mean u will join SAS like many of your old teammates?:rolleyes:

There choice. We deemed those last prizes as not worth the gold and they wanted more.

[bald zeemer]

The cap is 4700 damage, all bonuses are applied to that (once you reach the cap). So they should go from 6720 max to 7667.

/edited to get bonus non-stacking sorted.

[Vito Corleone]

There choice. We deemed those last prizes as not worth the gold and they wanted more.The last wars top3 prizes were actually all good for once.

[bald zeemer]

Top 1, 2, 3 & 10 were all amazing. Probably the first time that's happened, except maybe first war (when everyone thought #1's energy mod was a complete waste).

Last war's RP mod, however, seems truly worthless unless those glitch weapons from today are a new suite of RP weapons.

[Butt Futter]

The last wars top3 prizes were actually all good for once.

loldefense

[Smarty Pants]

At this point prizes are pointless, 1st place could be -10% gun attack mod and FC would still take it and after SAS absorbed the old and disheartened Indians remaining life essence I highly doubt they could even take top3 again without doing some serious player snatching.

I think it's kinda funny how everyone supposedly despised every SAS member after the baddad scandal a couple months ago and now everyone has flocked to them in troves easily giving them the ability to become a permant #2