[Tournament Arena] Toxic Tussle - August 1st - August 8th

[The Wise One]

Attention Knights!

A new Tournament Arena has just begun! Put your mighty strength and formidable armor to the test by defeating other knights in an epic battle for the top spot on the leaderboards! May victory be yours and great defeat to those that oppose you.



http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a538/giiforums/34ba8ff6-13f1-4462-9d89-fc529ad54cff_zps2527bd20.jpg?t=1375402800

[Musketeer]

I hate it when they do revenge as the first Quest. At least I got it out of the way within the first 24 hours.

[Marco_]

The 3 quests:
- engage in 3 Revenge Battles
- engage in 7 Tournament Battles in a single day
- win 10 Tournament Battles without any party members wearing earth armor
Number 3 is at least as annoying. :( :mad:

[michwlvrins]

No earth? But I like to watch my Aegis..... so sad.

[Musketeer]

Number 3 is a pain as two of my best 4 armors have Earth. I'm not sure it's really worth it for 1 gem, since the experience and gold rewards are laughable. I'm bound to lose a ton of fights that I could otherwise win if I try.

[XBDMRRFPN]

done all of them...
do you think it's normal that the first 3 position have score like 54000 35000 and 21800?
Is there a bug?
How can be possible to make 54000 points in 24h?
I would ask to the wise one

[QuantumP 86]

done all of them...
do you think it's normal that the first 3 position have score like 54000 35000 and 21800?
Is there a bug?
How can be possible to make 54000 points in 24h?
I would ask to the wise one

Did you know that you can buy 15 arena energy for 10 gems?

[XBDMRRFPN]

Did you know that you can buy 15 arena energy for 10 gems?
doing at least 1600 battles in 24h?
do you think is normal?

[Jello]

First off, the #1 guy has all 3 knights in Moontide. So he either has absolutely nothing to do with his money but give it to GREE for a multitude of gems, or he is cheating with gems. Yes, it could have been possible to get all 3 Moontide out of one purchase of 11 of the special chests... but highly improbable.

Second, new tourney started for me at 8pm EST and by midnight he had like 32,000 points in the first 4 hours. It would take over 800 battles doing double downs every time to 8/8 and getting 300 points each full DD run (plus a few extra for a shutdown or a revenge win). That doesn't take into account losing some battles which would probably push it well over 900! Even if it's possible (and yes I understand you can buy energy for gems), is it in 4 hours?

I don't know.... A cheat? A bug? No Life? How is anyone supposed to compete? Even if I spent money on the game, I sure as heck wouldn't spend that much for a Black Medal and outdated Legendary armor.

[deathexe]

First off, the #1 guy has all 3 knights in Moontide. So he either has absolutely nothing to do with his money but give it to GREE for a multitude of gems, or he is cheating with gems. Yes, it could have been possible to get all 3 Moontide out of one purchase of 11 of the special chests... but highly improbable.

Second, new tourney started for me at 8pm EST and by midnight he had like 32,000 points in the first 4 hours. It would take over 800 battles doing double downs every time to 8/8 and getting 300 points each full DD run (plus a few extra for a shutdown or a revenge win). That doesn't take into account losing some battles which would probably push it well over 900! Even if it's possible (and yes I understand you can buy energy for gems), is it in 4 hours?

I don't know.... A cheat? A bug? No Life? How is anyone supposed to compete? Even if I spent money on the game, I sure as heck wouldn't spend that much for a Black Medal and outdated Legendary armor.

In th case of Nehemiah is level 90 for a reason, so he'll probably be getting 1000 points for each double down, not 300. Sweetsauce, I'm not too sure. He had maxed moontide and was level 100 but only had two bosses and one arena.

[King Mark]

I'm not sure how the arena has gotten so much more competitive either as there isn't any special arena event like a month ago where the prize given was x5. Only Gree and the players know what's going on, haha! I guess for the rest of us, we all have to crawl our way up to place a little better and higher for this tournament.

[Marco_]

It's funny how the first 1 to 1 1/2 days of a new tournament friend request dry up to near zero and then they suddenly come flooping back in... (I'm only ribbon 2 right now on Android and still 20+ friend requests flooded in in the past few hours.)

[Musketeer]

In th case of Nehemiah is level 90 for a reason, so he'll probably be getting 1000 points for each double down, not 300. Sweetsauce, I'm not too sure. He had maxed moontide and was level 100 but only had two bosses and one arena.

Even with 1,000 points per double down that's 256 fights, or more than one a minute for 4 hours straight. I'm not convinced you can get 1,000 points per double down 32 times straight anyway, but I'll let that pass.

To have three knights in maxed Moontide, even if you have unlimited fusion stones, still takes a while to upgrade to 99. It all smells very fishy to me. I do recall Nehemiah being up there in the top 10 for the last tournament, so here's a guy that does nothing but play Arena battles.

He's now on just over 60,000 points, and the Arena has been running 40.5 hours. Assuming constant double downs for 1,000 points that's 480 battles, roughly 12 per hour since the Arena started, or one every five minutes, assuming he doesn't stop to eat or shower. Let's allow him 6 hours sleep for two nights just to give his finger a rest, uh-oh, now he has to do a battle every 3 1/2 minutes.

He will have regenerated 162 arena energy naturally, plus an intial 5, so he had to come up with 313 arena points with purchases, spending a minimum 200 gems. That's quite doable, only cost $25 US if he bought the biggest bundle, but the utter sadness of spending even half your waking hours tap-tapping just to earn a Black Medal makes my mind boggle.

OK, time to spend time with my wife and son, then I'm off to a Classic Car Show. See you guys in the real world.

[XBDMRRFPN]

Even with 1,000 points per double down that's 256 fights, or more than one a minute for 4 hours straight. I'm not convinced you can get 1,000 points per double down 32 times stright anyway, but I'll let that pass.

To have three knights in maxed Moontide, even if you have unlimited fusion stones, still takes a while to upgrade to 99. It all smells very fishy to me. I do recall Nehemiah being up there ij the top 10 for the last tournament, so here's a guy that does nothing but play Arena battles.

He's now on just over 60,000 points, and the Arena has been running 40.5 hours. Assuming constant double downs for 1,000 points that's 480 battles, roughly 12 per hour since the Arena started, or one every five minutes, assuming he doesn't stop to eat or shower. Let's allow him 6 hours sleep for two nights just to give his finger a rest, uh-oh, now he has to do a battle every 3 1/2 minutes.

He will have regenerated 162 arena energy naturally, plus an intial 5, so he had to come up with 313 arena points with purchases, spending a minimum 200 gems. That's quite doable, only cost $25 US if he bought the biggest bundle, but the utter sadness of spending even half your waking hours tap-tapping just to earn a Black Medal makes my mind boggle.

OK, time to spend time with my wife and son, then I'm off to a Classic Car Show. See you guys in the real world.
how it's possible to get 1000 with a double down?

[Unresolved]

how it's possible to get 1000 with a double down?

If you're below 100(not sure how it scales, but at 90, you can get the full 45 point base), getting a 1000+ point double down means you need to kill 8 people in a row who give you a 45 point base. Shutdowns and revenge kills will also help boost your point total a little.

[Revelate]

Even with 1,000 points per double down that's 256 fights, or more than one a minute for 4 hours straight. I'm not convinced you can get 1,000 points per double down 32 times stright anyway, but I'll let that pass.

To have three knights in maxed Moontide, even if you have unlimited fusion stones, still takes a while to upgrade to 99. It all smells very fishy to me. I do recall Nehemiah being up there ij the top 10 for the last tournament, so here's a guy that does nothing but play Arena battles.

He's now on just over 60,000 points, and the Arena has been running 40.5 hours. Assuming constant double downs for 1,000 points that's 480 battles, roughly 12 per hour since the Arena started, or one every five minutes, assuming he doesn't stop to eat or shower. Let's allow him 6 hours sleep for two nights just to give his finger a rest, uh-oh, now he has to do a battle every 3 1/2 minutes.

He will have regenerated 162 arena energy naturally, plus an intial 5, so he had to come up with 313 arena points with purchases, spending a minimum 200 gems. That's quite doable, only cost $25 US if he bought the biggest bundle, but the utter sadness of spending even half your waking hours tap-tapping just to earn a Black Medal makes my mind boggle.

OK, time to spend time with my wife and son, then I'm off to a Classic Car Show. See you guys in the real world.

Not sure, I mostly just goof off in Arena as I have no hope of placing higher than 250 or so, but I penciled out the math the other day and I can go through WAY more than 1 fight a minute when either I know I'm going to win (often in the early rounds) or know I'm going to lose (often in the later rounds). A non-trivial portion of my arena life these last few weeks have been spent on fast forward.

I'm going to estimate based on my own experience it's closer to 3 per minute, but for the sake of the discussion we'll split the difference at 2.

The baseline approximate 58000 points I saw early. Using deathexe's 1000 points as a base estimate (going to be some shutdowns in there as well early, maybe as many as a quarter, it's a feeding frenzy early) that's 58 full DD's or 464 total victories. 15/10 and assuming said individual stockpiled ($79.99 for 800, or for easy napkin math, $0.10 per gem):

$30.93 dollars spent on this escapade. I'm pretty average as far as my compensation; however, I go out to dinner on a semi-regular basis and spend more than this. I'd even wager I get more entertainment out of the game and certainly more time spent being entertained by it than the majority of said dinners I've purchased.

Personally if I were chasing this I'd just skip the energy regen, why bother micromanaging it at that price point? If we're talking about efficiency, probably wound spend more time managing energy to maximize restoration than the rest of the endeavour costs.

Less than two yuppie food stamps, and a few hours of my life (four and that's assuming some inefficiency, five and I wouldn't be trying hard I don't think). For quite possibly a Black Medal.

If I actually cared about either what my summary or achievement page stated, or even if I cared about Arena enough to try to do well in it, it just doesn't seem that complicated nor that expensive to pull this off.

As for leveling the moontides: that's easy, I dropped a slush fund check during the event, bought a bunch of chests 11 at a time, and hey, Water boosts and a bunch of enhancement mats. My economy sucks, I had no gold reserves, limited fusion stones, and other things to spend gold on... and I pushed 75 on a single Moontide in about a day. Not hard.

Figure if someone spent roughly 3x what I did or had better luck, and had plenty of fusion stones and and gold available which I suspect Nehemiah did looking at his summary (have to admit to being curious) it was a trivial process. Sweetsauce I don't know, but if someone were willing to spend enough money, it's doable. Really if I penciled it out on my luck and my current status in game, it would've cost $1000 which is a reasonable approximation based on my experience for Sweetsauce's journey assuming legit. I'm not willing to spend that on any game, but if you're in a place where money doesn't materially matter anymore, and for whatever reason you decide it matters or will provide entertainment value to you, why not push the boundaries?

Edit: my math assumes a 100% win rate which admittedly isn't reasonable. Math even assuming 100% DD interruption at an average of 4 wins in which I think is way high in this scenario... just skip any name you recognize: an additional 232 gems or another $2.32; I think it is 1 gem per DD win in the streak to continue? If not, ratchet it up by some factor but we're now talking cost on the order of a large soda at Jersey Mike's.

[Unresolved]

Snip

Just one minor point. When you're rank 250ish, you fight a large range of players who all vary greatly in strength. A lot of them have worse armors than the Big 4. When you're in the top 50, the only people you ever fight are fellow top 50 players. usually, I don't see people above rank 40 on my list. And a good majority of them have at least 3 level 70 armors maxed out, some stronger than others. When you have to fight people with armors that strong(even if you're at the same level), it takes longer to do one battle. Te last thing you want is to lose a 7/8 DD because you did something stupid like not switching armors.

[Revelate]

Just one minor point. When you're rank 250ish, you fight a large range of players who all vary greatly in strength. A lot of them have worse armors than the Big 4. When you're in the top 50, the only people you ever fight are fellow top 50 players. usually, I don't see people above rank 40 on my list. And a good majority of them have at least 3 level 70 armors maxed out, some stronger than others. When you have to fight people with armors that strong(even if you're at the same level), it takes longer to do one battle. Te last thing you want is to lose a 7/8 DD because you did something stupid like not switching armors.

Yes, but he got those 58K points in the first several hours: during this time it's a free-for-all because none of the normal progression players have more than 1.5K give or take, and that's a while into it too: he may well have had 0-500 point players the entire time. I'll bet you if I look at his progression now, he's probably earning about the same amount as anyone else, but I can attest that he pulled this off right at the start as I was curious as I was one of the scrubs in the top 100 after the first few hours, and I sorta wanted to see who else was there early.

At some point in my KnD playing I'm going to try simply kicking a slush fund check at it and while I know I couldn't do it as effectively as 3 full moontides, I'll bet that with 3 properly levelled non-suck boss armors I could probably pull off 20-30K, and I don't have some of the advantages Nehemiah has (like a friends list that probably has a who's who of folks regularly in the top 50, easy to avoid them as a result... and likely recognizing all the names of players who will likely give you trouble anyway).

Also speaking of early results, I saw someone today ranked in the top 150 with 46 straight wins, so I hit him for giggles: and crushed him for a whopping 15 points (and I still get 40 or so from some wins). The matchup system isn't implemented well from my viewpoint as a whole, and it really doesn't seem hard to rack up points early in the confusion.

Edit: on the prior post I made the assumption of 1000 per DD streak; this isn't right early looking at it, it's probably closer to 500 as there's going to be a mix of 15's in with the higher ones. So we're doubling cash outlay to ~$65 for the energy component.

[XBDMRRFPN]

If you're below 100(not sure how it scales, but at 90, you can get the full 45 point base), getting a 1000+ point double down means you need to kill 8 people in a row who give you a 45 point base. Shutdowns and revenge kills will also help boost your point total a little.
I see sometimes that I get 45 points but it is random how can I get always 45?
I am at level 87 but I don't think it is possible

[Unresolved]

I see sometimes that I get 45 points but it is random how can I get always 45?
I am at level 87 but I don't think it is possible

I believe you need to fight someone who is at least 10 levels higher than you to get the full 45 points.

[XBDMRRFPN]

I believe you need to fight someone who is at least 10 levels higher than you to get the full 45 points.

sometimes I win with such people, but most of the times I lose
The only topped i have is a rageborne... even someone with the big4 topped could beat me at the moment...
upgrading an infernal and a swamp... never spent a penny so far but I will do in the future for the TF

I got 2 bronze in a row in the last 2 weeks anyway
I think I am one of the weakest in the top 10

[BethMo]

Edit: on the prior post I made the assumption of 1000 per DD streak; this isn't right early looking at it, it's probably closer to 500 as there's going to be a mix of 15's in with the higher ones. So we're doubling cash outlay to ~$65 for the energy component.

Not if you do the whole chain of arena battles in one session. When you're fighting in the top 50 the game gradually reduces your choice of opponents to 3, and then after you fight one of those, each time you open and close the arena list it replaces the third one. So you can just keep refreshing it until you get a 45-pointer that you know you can beat.

That's how all the high-point players used to do it before Gree changed it so that level 100+ don't get more points for higher level opponents; if you search through back threads, there's one (started by Eunuchorn I think?) somewhere talking about highest score for a double down, which they achieved using that method.

It still works for level 90's.

[Revelate]

Not if you do the whole chain of arena battles in one session. When you're fighting in the top 50 the game gradually reduces your choice of opponents to 3, and then after you fight one of those, each time you open and close the arena list it replaces the third one. So you can just keep refreshing it until you get a 45-pointer that you know you can beat.

That's how all the high-point players used to do it before Gree changed it so that level 100+ don't get more points for higher level opponents; if you search through back threads, there's one (started by Eunuchorn I think?) somewhere talking about highest score for a double down, which they achieved using that method.

It still works for level 90's.

Interesting; however, in this specific case it was accomplished in the first few hours: at that point with everyone basically in the 1K range give or take, the list would be near infinite I would expect? Also during that time the top 50 would've been in a constant state of flux anyway outside of the top 5 or so (who all started early, hit them early or via friends list and they're off your radar for 23ish hours as I understand it), would the list contract that quickly?

[QuantumP 86]

Interesting; however, in this specific case it was accomplished in the first few hours: at that point with everyone basically in the 1K range give or take, the list would be near infinite I would expect? Also during that time the top 50 would've been in a constant state of flux anyway outside of the top 5 or so (who all started early, hit them early or via friends list and they're off your radar for 23ish hours as I understand it), would the list contract that quickly?

While the actual top 50 changes, it actually cycles you through a list of maybe 50 random players IF you never leave the arena. From what it seemed like, most of the 50 random players were higher level. It turns out that none of them had three top armors, so it was actually fairly easy to rapidly attack people and get 45 points. I actually won 200 some battles in a row randomly clicking until I missed several times losing to an opponent.

[King Mark]

@QuantumP 86/Nehemiah

Looks like you're all set to get the Black Medal in this tournament. Congrats!

Anyway, give others a chance in the next round, lol!

[Revelate]

If you're below 100(not sure how it scales, but at 90, you can get the full 45 point base), getting a 1000+ point double down means you need to kill 8 people in a row who give you a 45 point base. Shutdowns and revenge kills will also help boost your point total a little.

I did some testing from 90 to 100; it's actually scaled linearly: (level difference) * 3

Playing around on the alt in arena for some funsies, appears it might hold all the way down, where N is one's current level (got 18 off a random match wearing Monk's and basic, go me!):

N vs. N win = 15
N vs N+1 win = 18
...
N v N+10 win = 45 cap as I understand it.

I didn't see this before as I was powerleveling to 100 and I suspect my armor was vastly underleveled compared to everyone else around me as a result, maybe someone who's been playing in the mid-ranks a while or on a gold/questing alt could verify it?

[QuantumP 86]

I did some testing from 90 to 100; it's actually scaled linearly: (level difference) * 3

Playing around on the alt in arena for some funsies, appears it might hold all the way down, where N is one's current level (got 18 off a random match wearing Monk's and basic, go me!):

N vs. N win = 15
N vs N+1 win = 18
...
N v N+10 win = 45 cap as I understand it.

I didn't see this before as I was powerleveling to 100 and I suspect my armor was vastly underleveled compared to everyone else around me as a result, maybe someone who's been playing in the mid-ranks a while or on a gold/questing alt could verify it?

You are correct. I got 45 points per win verse a level 100 when I was level 90. I leveled to 91 and now get 42 points per win verse a level 100+.

[Marco_]

Well, can people help fill in the blanks then? We known for each level the oponent is higher 3 points is added to the base reward, but what values belong there for the shutdown and revenge rewards?



lvldiff base - shutdown - revenge
<=N 15 - 3 - 6
N+1 18 - -
N+2 21 - -
N+3 24 - 5 -
N+4 27 - 5 -
N+5 30 - 6 -
N+6 33 - 7 - 13
N+7 36 - 7 -
N+8 39 - -
N+9 42 - -
=>N+10 45 - -

[Roark]

can you dummy it down for someone that may stumble across that post alone? If I hadn't read the thread that post would be confusing as hell

[Marco_]

can you dummy it down for someone that may stumble across that post alone? If I hadn't read the thread that post would be confusing as hell
Is the clarification I edited in clear enough?

[Roark]

I might put an example in it:

If, for example, you are level 90, and your opponent is level 100 then we know there is a 45 point reward for this 10 level difference, can people who are still under 100 please post the values of rewards for shutdowns and revenge kills of people between 1-10 levels higher than them?