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Didas
07-24-2013, 11:52 AM
Lots of people ask the question "What should I upgrade?" or "Should I upgrade this or build that?". Here is the method I use to answer these types of questions. Warning: this post contains algebra.

Intro: You have two choices, upgrading building X or building Y. Building X will increase your income by $x per hour, building y will increase your income by $y per hour. Also, building X takes tx hours to upgrade and building Y takes ty hours.

First of all, assume that you're going to do both upgrades, the only question is which you're going to do first. When both upgrades are complete, your income will increase by $x+$y per hour. The choice you make only affects how much money you earn during the intermediate period before both buildings have been upgraded.

Choice #1 - upgrade X first: After tx hours, your income will increase by $x per hour. After tx+ty hours, your income will increase by $x+$y per hour. During the intermediate period, you'll earn ty*$x from building X.

Choice #2 - upgrade Y first: Same idea, during the intermediate period, you'll earn tx*$y from building Y.

So, the choice is simple. If ty*$x > tx*$y, pick building X first, otherwise pick building Y.

Wrinkle #1: tx and ty are not simply how long it takes to upgrade building X or Y. It also covers how long it takes to earn the money to pay for the upgrade. For expensive buildings like nightclubs, the time required to earn enough money could be much longer than the upgrade time. If that's the case, you should calculate tx as the earning time, not the upgrade time.

Wrinkle #2: Limited Time Building bonus prizes effectively reduce the cost of an upgrade. You should decide how much money you think a prize is worth. If the prize is worth more than the money you would lose from upgrading an LTB over another building, then the LTB is the right choice.

Wrinkle #3: When deciding whether or not to build an LTB, the choice is more complicated because you don't have the option of postponing the LTB for very long. If you build the LTB, you lose money because you postpone better upgrades, but if you don't build the LTB, it will disappear forever. In this case, I would calculate how much money you lose from building the LTB early and add that to the cost of the build. Then I would figure out how long it would take for the LTB to pay back the cost and decide if that period is too long. Example: building a $50 mil LTB before an NC upgrade costs $30 mil in lost NC revenue. So the LTB is effectively an $80 mil building. If the IPH is $40k, then it will take 2000 hours or about 3 months to pay back the total cost.

johnny boy phd
07-24-2013, 11:56 AM
hey didas I suggest you look into this thread: http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?55634-my-thoughts-on-the-CC-economy

Dravak
07-24-2013, 12:05 PM
Why do people have to complicated when it is very simple !

If you have the income , and can afford the building ,build it for the stats increase !
If you can't stand being robbed , just tossed it into a cornor or sell it when the ltb is over !

Done isn't so hard to figure out what LTB does , if you cannot afford the building , and you only gain 1k raw stats with all your money , then yeah go upgrade the nightclubs or casino or 24 hour buildings !

check the spreadsheet then , what is the beter building !
Only reason to build LTB is for the items stat , the income and rest are just bonus !

If you don't have iph at all for whatever reason , well LTB sets you back raw data roughly 4k in stats compared to the average and 12k-16k compared to the gold spenders !
So that is one race every month you are losing out on stats that could have been gotten for free .

ShawnBB
07-24-2013, 12:21 PM
hey didas I suggest you look into this thread: http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?55634-my-thoughts-on-the-CC-economy

Did you have phd in Crime City University? I better quit my college and transfer to CCU!

bimmer kid
07-24-2013, 12:23 PM
hey didas I suggest you look into this thread: http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?55634-my-thoughts-on-the-CC-economy

all i have to say is wow

Didas
07-24-2013, 12:25 PM
hey didas I suggest you look into this thread: http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?55634-my-thoughts-on-the-CC-economy
Yes, I read that thread before, and I believe my method is similar but simpler to explain and more comprehensive.

First of all, you'll notice that ty*$x > tx*$y is equivalent to $x/tx > $y/ty, which is simply a comparison of IPH gain over time. However, my comparison method gives you a dollar amount for the cost/benefit of a particular choice. This dollar amount can then be compared to side benefits like LTB prizes. Also, I combined time-limited upgrades and income-limited upgrades into a single number, much like Ramshutu's GFI guide.

bimmer kid
07-24-2013, 12:31 PM
Done isn't so hard to figure out what LTB does , if you cannot afford the building , and you only gain 1k raw stats with all your money , then yeah go upgrade the nightclubs or casino or 24 hour buildings !




all you needa know. why make it complicated lol

ShawnBB
07-24-2013, 01:01 PM
hey didas I suggest you look into this thread: http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?55634-my-thoughts-on-the-CC-economy

Just finish reading your "Phd" paper, here is something I need to raise: What you wanted to say in your paper can be just done in one page.

I don't know what is the point for listing both dIpH/k and d%IpH/m, they are simply same ratio thing.
Same for dIpH/h and d%IpH/d, again same ratio thing! Do not trick people with all the texting.
1 over your dIpH/k = ROI. Man, you are just another trampstamp's believer, just like me!

TS already told me on my first week of CC that following Iph gain per hour is based on the fact that you are having unlimited money. If money is limited, you only need to consider your dIpH/k(Iph gain from investment) which is 1/ROI.
After all, you are just comparing every upgrades' ROI, shorter the better. And actually still stucking on the first stage of econ analysis.

Legen...dary
07-24-2013, 01:21 PM
My usual answer: Yes

In the very long run having that LTB is great. In the very long run getting your NC's to L10 is great. If it isn't destroying your economy, like setting yourself a goal to get all your first buildings to L10, then it isn't making that much of a difference.

Being on time with your collections makes SO much more of a difference that everything else is almost negligible.

Upgrade the most expensive building you can save for in a week or two is a pretty good generality. Build/upgrade while waiting, any building that won't set your save back more than a few hours. NC vs. LTB is all a matter of preference as far as I can see. Of course, if NC L2 will allow you 2 of the next LTB, you should keep that in mind when your preference is for LTB. There are so many factors built in, that a case by case basis has to be so detailed that it is almost useless for anyone else reading the answer.

Q: Should I upgrade this or this? A: Yes. (for almost anytime the difference is smaller than Dominican > L10 vs. NC > L2) Just go big or go home.

(awesome guides, by the way... I used to check my intuition against these guides and the economy spreadsheets. I was always so close that the differences didn't make much difference. I could rob that income difference in an hour most times)

ShawnBB
07-24-2013, 01:37 PM
Q: Should I upgrade this or this? A: Yes.

I can't follow you bro :confused:

mxz
07-24-2013, 04:18 PM
Wrinkle #1: tx and ty are not simply how long it takes to upgrade building X or Y. It also covers how long it takes to earn the money to pay for the upgrade. For expensive buildings like nightclubs, the time required to earn enough money could be much longer than the upgrade time. If that's the case, you should calculate tx as the earning time, not the upgrade time.This is kind of a big wrinkle.

If tx and ty get too long due to save times at some point its just going to skew, in not necessarily the best way.

The biggest wrinkle you forgot was what about multiple buildings and across multiple levels. If I'm looking at a Pagoda 1->2 versus a Dominican 7->8 your analysis might say Dominican is the better investment - when any CC econ nerd would know that's just silly.

You've also failed to take into account when some buildings just aren't worth upgrading anymore. At certain IPH's most buildings become decorations.

I appreciate what you're trying to do...but the analyses by Ram, Itz, TS, WF and others (but not murf!) are still the golden standard.

Didas
07-24-2013, 04:38 PM
This is kind of a big wrinkle.

If tx and ty get too long due to save times at some point its just going to skew, in not necessarily the best way.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but I agree that save times are a really big deal which cause some buildings to look worthless at low IPH and fantastic at high IPH.



The biggest wrinkle you forgot was what about multiple buildings and across multiple levels. If I'm looking at a Pagoda 1->2 versus a Dominican 7->8 your analysis might say Dominican is the better investment - when any CC econ nerd would know that's just silly.

You've also failed to take into account when some buildings just aren't worth upgrading anymore. At certain IPH's most buildings become decorations.

No, I didn't state it explicitly, but multiple upgrades can be treated as a single step for comparison purposes. There are definitely some situations, such as NC 0->2, where the two-step upgrade is better than the first step alone. That doesn't change the process, it only changes the two choices being compared. So, when deciding when to build a NC, I would always compare against NC 0->2 instead of NC 0->1.

Also, upgrade priority is a transitive property, which means if building X is better than Y, and Y is better than Z, then X is better than Z. So, multiple buildings can be handled as a series of 1 vs 1 comparisons. There might be situations where this isn't quite true, but I think these are rare and not really worth worrying about.

Finally, buildings getter better as your IPH increases until your IPH exceeds the spending rate (upgrade cost/upgrade time). As your IPH increases, the intro buildings buildings start falling way behind the advanced buildings and don't warrant any further attention.

mxz
07-24-2013, 04:43 PM
Also, upgrade priority is a transitive property, which means if building X is better than Y, and Y is better than Z, then X is better than Z. So, multiple buildings can be handled as a series of 1 vs 1 comparisons. There might be situations where this isn't quite true, but I think these are rare and not really worth worrying about.

Finally, buildings getter better as your IPH increases until your IPH exceeds the spending rate (upgrade cost/upgrade time). As your IPH increases, the intro buildings buildings start falling way behind the advanced buildings and don't warrant any further attention.So you're doing multiple calculations (by hand, essentially) each time you want to upgrade instead of using the tools already out there and sorting High->Low?

Good for you...but ain't nobody got time for that.

Didas
07-24-2013, 04:54 PM
So you're doing multiple calculations (by hand, essentially) each time you want to upgrade instead of using the tools already out there and sorting High->Low?

Good for you...but ain't nobody got time for that.
No, I use a spreadsheet like everyone else does. It's much more sophisticated than what I've described here, but the fundamental principle is still the same. And judging from all the economy based posts in the forum, I think you've vastly underestimated how much time people have. :P

mxz
07-24-2013, 04:57 PM
No, I use a spreadsheet like everyone else does. It's much more sophisticated than what I've described here, but the fundamental principle is still the same. And judging from all the economy based posts in the forum, I think you've vastly underestimated how much time people have. :PIf I have to explain the meme to you it won't be as funny when you finally see it....

murf
07-24-2013, 06:57 PM
I appreciate what you're trying to do...but the analyses by Ram, Itz, TS, WF and others (but not murf!) are still the golden standard.

Ouch. Where's the love?

mxz
07-24-2013, 08:33 PM
Haha, you know I can't give love to ROI :)