Knights & Dragons Armor-Enhancing Simulator and Calculator

[Barbanium]

THIS WILL NO LONGER BE FIXED NOR UPDATED.
PLEASE DOWNLOAD YOUR OWN COPY WHILE IT IS STILL WORKING PROPERLY.

Hi! I made 2 calculators that simulate the enhancing process of your armor and calculate the total cost of enhancement and total time to craft the enhancing armors.


Please read and follow these advisories so everyone can use the calculators properly.

DON'TS:

• DON'T copy, cut or paste cells
• DON'T change the formatting of cells
• DON'T add rows or columns of cells
• DON'T add spreadsheets
• MOST IMPORTANTLY: DON'T do anything that will ruin the calculators


Level-to-Level Calculator (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao5016Mn5Xg6dFh1eEJkZjNhZlJnMXljWHlvMjJYb 3c#gid=0)

FULL LINK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao5016Mn5Xg6dFh1eEJkZjNhZlJnMXljWHlvMjJYb 3c#gid=0

FEATURES:

• Simulates enhancing process from a level to another
• Calculates total cost & crafting time, EP, and many more
• Compatible with Epic Tier armors (Lvl 99 Cap.) and Black Kaleidoscopic Armor
• Compatible with any number of Armorsmiths
• Takes account of number of armors needed for last enhancement
• Detects impossible input combinations/user-input errors
• 100% accurate calculations if assumptions are met

ASSUMPTIONS:

• FOUR armors are used per enhancement EXCEPT for last enhancement
(which could be less than 4)
• Enhancing armors are ALWAYS SAME TYPE as indicated in input
• ALL Armorsmiths have SAME level as indicated in input
• ALL enhancing armors are CRAFTED in Armorsmiths


One-Time Enhancement Calculator (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao5016Mn5Xg6dFh1eEJkZjNhZlJnMXljWHlvMjJYb 3c#gid=4)

FULL LINK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao5016Mn5Xg6dFh1eEJkZjNhZlJnMXljWHlvMjJYb 3c#gid=4

FEATURES:

• Simulates enhancing process of ONE enhancement
• Calculates resulting level, enhancement cost, and EP
• Gives freedom to number or type of enhancing armors
• Shows level cap and star ranking of enhancing armors
• Compatible with Epic Tier armors (Lvl 99 Cap.) and Black Kaleidoscopic Armor
• Detects impossible input combinations/user-input errors
• 100% accurate calculations

NOTE: Most of the cells are shaded because they're protected,
so no one but me can edit formulas and data.

Thanks to:

Varza, Lii, Jello and other contributors of these spreadsheets:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiQKRFnZ9_jpdEFtUUVnd2dQM1ZIX2IxT1RNZVlva lE#gid=9

deathexe for suggesting a time calculator feature

Nate R and dengel for their calculator and suggestions

Sifu for suggesting a feature that determines the number of armors needed for the last enhancement

and Unresolved for his Gold Efficiency of Enhancement Cost spreadsheet. :D

[Lord Ash]

Good job Barbie

[deathexe]

Nate R had also done something similar to this awhile back, thought that you might want to check it out too. He included the time it would take to produce the amout of gold required, though I haven't tried it out for myself. It's on the last post of this page:

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?52470-Armor-Leveling-Research.-Please-Contribute./page11

[Musketeer]

I'm confused by the exp on armor before/after enhancing, can you clarify? The input doesn't seem to affect the outcome.

Armor doesn't earn experience, it gains enhancement points, the max being 5070 for a capped level 70.

[Marco_]

I think it has been broken already. (for ex. cell C5 and a bunch of values in O, P, Q and R) You should really somehow block/protect some cells from being edited...

[Nicco]

I think it has been broken already. (for ex. cell C5 and a bunch of values in O, P, Q and R) You should really somehow block/protect some cells from being edited...

Past spreadsheets have proven, open editing ends poorly.

[Jello]

I'm confused by the exp on armor before/after enhancing, can you clarify? The input doesn't seem to affect the outcome.

Armor doesn't earn experience, it gains enhancement points, the max being 5070 for a capped level 70.

I'm sure he meant EP not Exp.

[Barbanium]

Good job Barbie
Thanks! :D


Nate R had also done something similar to this awhile back, thought that you might want to check it out too. He included the time it would take to produce the amout of gold required, though I haven't tried it out for myself. It's on the last post of this page:

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?52470-Armor-Leveling-Research.-Please-Contribute./page11
He didn't seem to publish it yet. That or I can't find his calculator.


I'm confused by the exp on armor before/after enhancing, can you clarify? The input doesn't seem to affect the outcome.

Armor doesn't earn experience, it gains enhancement points, the max being 5070 for a capped level 70.


I'm sure he meant EP not Exp.
Yeah, I meant EP. I got used to the term "exp" from other games. Nevertheless, I changed it now. And it's not a "he", it's a she. :p


I think it has been broken already. (for ex. cell C5 and a bunch of values in O, P, Q and R) You should really somehow block/protect some cells from being edited...
Fixed! I don't know how else others can edit it now. If it does get edited, please let me know so I can fix it. ;)


Past spreadsheets have proven, open editing ends poorly.
I protected the formulas and data now. Hopefully they can't get edited again. :D

[Genocide788]

This is beautiful Barb. Could i request you add in a 5th armorsmith? Some of us do have 5 of them, esp during the current event.

[Barbanium]

See, the thing about 3 or 5 armorsmiths is that if you're trying to craft Level 11 Uncommons and Fusion Stone Armors, there's a chance that you'll be left with using only 1 or 2 if you have 3 or 1, 2, 3, or 4 if you have 5 when crafting the last enhancing armors you need. And determining whether you'll use less than 3 or 5 armorsmiths when crafting those last armors are what I find really hard.

But I'll try what I can.:D

[Jello]

FYI: Minor correction on the cost per armor for a couple of levels. I found the mistake on the original sheet when I was doing my 1-30 level testing today:

Level 09 600 2400
Level 10 700 2800
Level 11 800 3200
Level 12 900 3600

Also, be sure to correct the EP Points Necessary for 1-30. I made corrections to it today on the Data Sheet:

Level 11 should be 5 EP
Level 16 should be 6 EP
Level 24 should be 9 EP
Level 27 & 28 should be 10 EP

Total should be 194 EP.

[Barbanium]

Wow, thanks Jello!

I wasn't expecting you would personally tell me changes from the Armors_Data spreadsheets so I can update my calculator. I really appreciate it. :D

Anyway, it's all updated now. :)

[Nate R]

Glad I could help a little bit :P

Maybe we could work together to improve these.

[Nate R]

Here's my version... I think it gives a little more freedom to explore possibilities. And it doesn't matter if you have 3 or 5 armor smiths.

http://www36.zippyshare.com/v/18165933/file.html
Mirror: http://www.4shared.com/file/bnYCsk5S/Enhancing_Simulator_by_Nate_R.html

Edit: I'm sorry it took me over a week to actually post it.. I work a lot and my girlfriend wanted Nate time all weekend :P

[SoloStar]

Great work. Wish it had 3 armorsmiths though.

[Marco_]

Here's my version... I think it gives a little more freedom to explore possibilities. And it doesn't matter if you have 3 or 5 armor smiths.
http://www.4shared.com/file/bnYCsk5S/Enhancing_Simulator_by_Nate_R.html

Only downloadable for registered 4shared users... -_-

[Nate R]

Only downloadable for registered 4shared users... -_-

Whoops! Reuploaded and updated the post

[Barbanium]

Glad I could help a little bit :P

Maybe we could work together to improve these.


Here's my version... I think it gives a little more freedom to explore possibilities. And it doesn't matter if you have 3 or 5 armor smiths.

http://www36.zippyshare.com/v/18165933/file.html
Mirror: http://www.4shared.com/file/bnYCsk5S/Enhancing_Simulator_by_Nate_R.html

Edit: I'm sorry it took me over a week to actually post it.. I work a lot and my girlfriend wanted Nate time all weekend :P
Hi Nate R! I would really love it if we collaborated to improve our calcs.

I reviewed your calc and I have some comments on it:
-the 'percent to use for smithing' doesn't seem to work; that or I don't know how it works
-when the output for the 'total' column (total gold to enhance) gets more than 1M, it changes to ########
-method 1, 2, and 3 seem to work the same way
-you add 1 minute to the 'time needed for smithing' on the 5th enhancement then after that, you add 1 minute per 10 enhancement
-some data aren't automatically inputted, like when I input in the '# of EP per enhancing armor,' I also have to input in the 'cost of armor per smithing' and the 'minutes required for smithing each armor'
-you have let the user to input 3 or 5 in the Number of Smiths and just divided the total time to craft all the enhancing armors by those values. For level 11 uncommons and Fusion Stone Armors, it doesn't work that way (explained later)

I've also found some features from your calc that isn't implemented in mine:
-you have let the user to input how many armors are used per enhancement (I kinda assume that when you're upgrading, you always use 4, which is very reasonable since its too expensive to enhance with less than that)
-the starting level has the current EP in decimal (I'm improving mine right now to change it to percentage)
-you have let the user to input legendary armors as enhancing armors (I kinda think its too time consuming to craft all those legendaries just to upgrade an armor, so I didn't add that option)
-you have a gold income calculator (to make it less confusing for the user, I'll just add that feature in a separate sheet)
-you compared the time needed for smithing and time needed to obtain the gold, get which one has lesser time and showed it to the user (again, I'm just gonna separate gold calc and enhancing calc)
-for blue box inputs 'percent to use for smithing' and 'gold you already have' you've added "%" and "G" units (I don't think that's possible with google speadsheets)

And lastly, how did you make the excel cells below the inputs locked?

(Explanation)

As I said in my previous post, when having 3 or 5 armorsmiths, it's hard know whether all the armorsmiths are going to be used when crafting the last level 11 uncommons OR fusion stone armors needed for your enhancement.

Let say I have 5 level 1 armorsmiths and a level 40 armor (lvl 50 cap) and I want to enhance that to level 50 using fusion stone armors. If this is the case, I'll be needing 4 fusion stone armors or in other words, 8 basic armors. In your calculator, it just divides the total time to craft all the enhancing armors (in this case, 40 mins.) by the number of armorsmiths (5). It will calculate to 8 mins. but that's not the real case. The 5 armorsmiths will craft the first 5 basics for 5 mins. and the remaining 3 basics will be crafted for another 5 mins. for a total of 10 mins. If this isn't complicated enough, try level 11 uncommons when you have to craft basics and uncommons which have a different duration of crafting.

If you have comments on mine, please let me know :D

[Nate R]

Barbanium,

It is great to have so much feedback on it! I appreciate it.

-"percent used for smithing" is poorly explained. My brother had the same question earlier. Basically, what it does is enables a user to allot a % of their income to other things (like buying new buildings). Typically, it would be left at 100%. And after reviewing my formulas, you are absolutely correct that it doesn't work. I must have overlooked it during the numerous updates I made. Thanks for the catch! haha

-Total column going to ######: I don't have that problem, maybe it has to do with how you computer reads the formatting. I made the columns a little wider so it shouldn't be a problem until 99M.

-Method 1, 2, and 3 are in place so that the user can input different variables (starting level, level desired, what armor is being used, etc.) to compare between different methods so you can see which is fastest/cheapest and when the differences occur.

-Adding minutes to time needed for enhancing: The reason is because I decided to add .1 minute to each smithing time to account for how long it takes the player to set up the armor smith. I just thought it made it slightly more practical as far as how long it really takes... obviously you can't account for how long a player might wait to queue up a new armor, so this seemed like the best alternative.

-Some data is automatic: I originally had it all automatic, but I decided that this way gives the user more freedom to determine how their enhancements are going to be. You should have comment boxes pop up when you hover over the cells that provide you with the information for various armors so you don't have to look it up, but I wanted to make the simulator as versatile as possible.

-3 or 5 smiths is okay/level 11 uncommon: Because of the previous bullet point, my calculator allows you to input the data to create a level 11 uncommons (or whatever else) in "Method 1" then take the output variables and use them in "Method 2" or "Method 3" as inputs. This way you can figure out how long it takes to upgrade level 70 armor to level 70 using level 11 uncommons. Does that make sense?

For example, you find that it takes 25 minutes to craft everything you require to make the armors you are going to enhance other armor with, so then you input 25 minutes as the time required to craft and you input the exact amount of EP each of these armors will give. Voila! You can figure out any method of enhancing you want.






Your comments about what mine has that yours doesn't:
-Input how many armors you use to enhance instead of assuming 4: Again, just to make it versatile. This feature is only for idiots, noobs, or people who just want to see what difference it makes.

-Starting level allows for decimals: This one was kind of fun for me. I'm a nerd lmao! I just thought it would be cool to be as accurate as possible in this area. Need some help with your formulas?

-Yes! You can craft legendaries to enhance legendaries! Time consuming, money wasting, and stupid, but again I just wanted to make it have everything.

-Gold income calculator: Do you think my presentation is confusing?

-Auto format to have "G" or "%": No, I don't think Google docs lets you do that. This is one reason I didn't put it in Google docs. Excel lets you have more control over the spreadsheet. For example, locking access to the cells below the inputs.



As for your final example, you are correct. However, the difference between 8 and 10 minutes is very acceptable to me. I don't think 2 minutes is going to kill anyone. On a larger scale, like 0-70, it will be about as accurate, so I think it is worth having the ability to calculate based on 3 or 5 smiths.


Now that I'm done with this enormous post, I think I'll go get some whiskey!


PS. Here is a link to the slightly updated sheet:
http://www1.zippyshare.com/v/2328869/file.html

[Barbanium]

Hey Nate R!

So this is what I think:

I don't think I'll add like Method 1, 2, and 3 to the calc. It'll be like 3 calc in one screen. If they want to compare results, they should just record the previous result and input the new values again.

I kinda like being accurate with the calculations (hence why I'm not implementing the option for 3 or 5 armorsimths yet) so the crafting armor calculation will be the same.

To avoid errors, I will still automate the EP of armors, cost to craft armor, and time to craft armors when the type of armor is selected.

I'll think of something that will make the calculation of time when crafting of level 11 uncommons and fusion armors with 3 or 5 armorsmiths. (I really like it to be accurate)

For your starting levels with decimals, I improved mine so that the user will have to input a percentage of how much the armor's EP bar is currently full. (check it out :D)

I really think it's "common sense" not to craft legendaries/u. rares to enhance armors and no one would think of doing this, hence I'm not adding that option.

Your gold calculator isn't complicated, I totally get it. It's just that mine is an enhancing calculator and I don't wanna add that in the same sheet. I'll just create another sheet for a gold calculator.

For having an option to choose how many armors are used in one enhancement, I'm just gonna create another calculator but this time, it's gonna be a one-time enhancement calculator. It will have a lot of freedom this time cause unlike the first one I made, you're not enhancing the armor from a level to another level but, it will only calculate the ONE enhancement made to the armor. :)

If you want to suggest something, please do. I'll really appreciate it! :D

[overcire]

Barbanium, just remember to apply your fix to the last lvl 11 armour you are building. all of the others can efficiently use any number of armorsmiths.

I wish I could always use my time /gold /materials to their max, but I have a lot more gold saved up then materials or fusion stones. Currently leveling a legendary @ lvl 35 with basics to try to eat through some of my gold and because I ran out of materials for snakeskins and uncommons. c'est la vie

[Unresolved]

I wish I could always use my time /gold /materials to their max, but I have a lot more gold saved up then materials or fusion stones. Currently leveling a legendary @ lvl 35 with basics to try to eat through some of my gold and because I ran out of materials for snakeskins and uncommons. c'est la vie

I'm the opposite :(. I've been enhancing too quickly for my gold to really build up. I'm always super low on gold and I have enough Fusion stones for several armors :p.

[Barbanium]

Barbanium, just remember to apply your fix to the last lvl 11 armour you are building. all of the others can efficiently use any number of armorsmiths.

I wish I could always use my time /gold /materials to their max, but I have a lot more gold saved up then materials or fusion stones. Currently leveling a legendary @ lvl 35 with basics to try to eat through some of my gold and because I ran out of materials for snakeskins and uncommons. c'est la vie

The calculator is programmed to calculate the time required to craft those lvl 11 uncommons accurately WHEN using 1,2 or 4 armorsmiths (those are actually the only options right now :p). Of course, it assumes that the user will use his armorsmiths as optimal as possible cause it only calculates the least POSSILBE time to craft those armors.

Here's a pic to give an example of optimal and non-optimal use or armorsmiths:


http://i.imgur.com/KUEBlva.jpg?1

EDIT: on non-optimal use, 11th crafting and 4th armorsmith, I meant Uncommon on that cell.

[dengel]

Not sure if you are interested but I thought I would throw in my calc to the fray...

It has similar features to Nate's and also allows for any number of armories (it will calculate number of cycles required.

I included a trade-off analysis based on a whole bunch of the generally recommended armor leveling methods.

Its not polished, but still could be useful to some :)
Some of my calculations are annoyingly long

http://www49.zippyshare.com/v/45730551/file.html

[Nate R]

Not sure if you are interested but I thought I would throw in my calc to the fray...

It has similar features to Nate's and also allows for any number of armories (it will calculate number of cycles required.

I included a trade-off analysis based on a whole bunch of the generally recommended armor leveling methods.

Its not polished, but still could be useful to some :)
Some of my calculations are annoyingly long, and I'm sure when we add "Epic" armor we will have to re-vamp everything

http://www52.zippyshare.com/v/49818380/file.html


Thanks for the contribution, Dengel. I like how you have a comparison of the different methods in your output.

[Barbanium]

Not sure if you are interested but I thought I would throw in my calc to the fray...

It has similar features to Nate's and also allows for any number of armories (it will calculate number of cycles required.

I included a trade-off analysis based on a whole bunch of the generally recommended armor leveling methods.

Its not polished, but still could be useful to some :)
Some of my calculations are annoyingly long, and I'm sure when we add "Epic" armor we will have to re-vamp everything

http://www52.zippyshare.com/v/49818380/file.html
Thanks for this, dengel. I'll try to add some features from your calc to mine. :D

One note though, the formulas don't seem to work in some cells.
Fix that up and it'll be all good. :)

And once I got the Data for Epic Armors, I can easily add that option to my calc.
I trust the peeps working on Armor_Data will do that.

[EljayK]

Barbanium, just remember to apply your fix to the last lvl 11 armour you are building. all of the others can efficiently use any number of armorsmiths.

I wish I could always use my time /gold /materials to their max, but I have a lot more gold saved up then materials or fusion stones. Currently leveling a legendary @ lvl 35 with basics to try to eat through some of my gold and because I ran out of materials for snakeskins and uncommons. c'est la vie

I recently hit a wall with things that I even have the ability to level. Haven't gotten any Epic Boss+ armors yet (hoping for this weeks), and I'm grinding evil gems to make DP+. My gold went up a lot (gave most to guild), and I ended up after a week with 80 materials from bosses and arena. But nothing to use it on! Finally gave in and started leveling a Eurus normal because I don't have a water/spirit, and it's stats are 100 points better than spectral captain.

[Barbanium]

Hey people! I've added new features to the calculator and vastly improved it. Please check it out! :D

[pele91]

Great job dude... :))

[Barbanium]

Hey people, I made another improvements with the calculator!

Now it can simulate the enhancement of lvl 99 (epic tier) armors,

any number of armorsmiths can be inputted, and

added options if enhancing armors with non-matching elements (especially for black kaleidoscopic raiment)

and


Great job dude... :))

I'm a girl, not a dude. :p

[XBDMRRFPN]

I have a theory that maybe could be interesting to investigate
I noticed that between lvl 1 and 20 the uncommons at lev6 seem to be the best solution especially if you don't match the snakeskin
the uncommons lvl 11 seems to be a suboptimal solution (I didn't check all variances so please correct me in case I am wrong)

I speak of course about the matching uncommons (there is no reason to don't match, it's not a big deal to get any basic shreds while snakeskin is good just for 2 colors)

said that I noticed that the bar, when you enhance the uncommon to level 6, gets close to lvl 7.
I checked and there seem to miss just 1 point to get 25 (didn't test it yet but is something easy)

Suppose to do this procedure (that is way less heavy than uncommon 11)

suppose that you want to enhance the new blazeborne epic armor (that I got fusing Notus and Ruby) so you need basic fire

get 1 basic fire and enhance with whatever basic (maybe earth, who farms snakeskin has tons of them) getting a lvl2 fire

take your dragonflame and enhance with 3 fire basics lvl1, + the one fire basic lvl2 just enhanced with another basic

instead of getting a lvl6 dragonflame you get a lvl 7, that means 16 EP instead of 15
what do you spend more? 150+300 and 5 minutes more per 1 point enhancement and 1800 and 20 minutes for 4 EP more each enhancement without using any further slot.

Someone could think that yes maybe is an improvement, but not that big, even if at large is easier than bringing the uncommon to lvl 11 and uses better the spare got when you reach level7.
For someone that is very methodic could be interesting anyway and surely a quicker way compared to snakeskins, more efficient from the very beginning and still useful until a higher level that the lvl6

but this is just the first side.

Think about when you get the EP 50 with fusion stones.
You usually use the basics (why waste an uncommon for it?) and you get lvl1 armor that gives you 50 EP

think about enhancing both basics to lvl7, you will get a lvl7 armor worth 56 EP with a little more expense and not really big more time to get

now thing about filling the 4 slots with 56 EP each instead of 50, that would mean 24 EP more than before.

The expense for each one is 2250 so we will have to add 5500 to each 25000 spent with fusion stone bringing it to 30500 (apart the to basic to fuse so it will be 31100)
I guess that at a certain point this thing will speed up the enhancing process, especially after lvl 70...
this is what I guess, I would ask to who made the macro to try this thing and say if it is worth or not and in case when...

[Crimson Unicorn]

great work here! Though the functionality of the estimated percentage of current ep is off. It only accepts numbers greater then 1 yet it is looking for percents. This means if you type in 10 to mean 10% it thinks its 1000% and throws it off quite a bit. so it either needs to be modified to take whatever number you give it and multiply by .01 or to just accept numbers form 0-.99


Very great spreadsheet work though :D

[dengel]

I have a theory that maybe could be interesting to investigate
I noticed that between lvl 1 and 20 the uncommons at lev6 seem to be the best solution especially if you don't match the snakeskin
the uncommons lvl 11 seems to be a suboptimal solution (I didn't check all variances so please correct me in case I am wrong)

I speak of course about the matching uncommons (there is no reason to don't match, it's not a big deal to get any basic shreds while snakeskin is good just for 2 colors)

said that I noticed that the bar, when you enhance the uncommon to level 6, gets close to lvl 7.
I checked and there seem to miss just 1 point to get 25 (didn't test it yet but is something easy)

Suppose to do this procedure (that is way less heavy than uncommon 11)

suppose that you want to enhance the new blazeborne epic armor (that I got fusing Notus and Ruby) so you need basic fire

get 1 basic fire and enhance with whatever basic (maybe earth, who farms snakeskin has tons of them) getting a lvl2 fire

take your dragonflame and enhance with 3 fire basics lvl1, + the one fire basic lvl2 just enhanced with another basic

instead of getting a lvl6 dragonflame you get a lvl 7, that means 16 EP instead of 15
what do you spend more? 150+300 and 5 minutes more per 1 point enhancement and 1800 and 20 minutes for 4 EP more each enhancement without using any further slot.

Someone could think that yes maybe is an improvement, but not that big, even if at large is easier than bringing the uncommon to lvl 11 and uses better the spare got when you reach level7.
For someone that is very methodic could be interesting anyway and surely a quicker way compared to snakeskins, more efficient from the very beginning and still useful until a higher level that the lvl6

but this is just the first side.

Think about when you get the EP 50 with fusion stones.
You usually use the basics (why waste an uncommon for it?) and you get lvl1 armor that gives you 50 EP

think about enhancing both basics to lvl7, you will get a lvl7 armor worth 56 EP with a little more expense and not really big more time to get

now thing about filling the 4 slots with 56 EP each instead of 50, that would mean 24 EP more than before.

The expense for each one is 2250 so we will have to add 5500 to each 25000 spent with fusion stone bringing it to 30500 (apart the to basic to fuse so it will be 31100)
I guess that at a certain point this thing will speed up the enhancing process, especially after lvl 70...
this is what I guess, I would ask to who made the macro to try this thing and say if it is worth or not and in case when...

There is definitely some value in non6/11, it is all a matter of what is most important to you.
If you want to play around with the optimum choice at a given level you can make use of the spreadsheet I made.

It has some flexibility (intentionally for this reason), if the default choices aren't what you want, just update the "crafting requirements" and it will accommodate any flavor you want. I will likely make an update in the near future to cover level 99 armor and add a few custom options so that you don't have to delete something first.

Not sure how hard it is to do on the google spreadsheet that BARB made.

Dengel

[XBDMRRFPN]

There is definitely some value in non6/11, it is all a matter of what is most important to you.
If you want to play around with the optimum choice at a given level you can make use of the spreadsheet I made.

It has some flexibility (intentionally for this reason), if the default choices aren't what you want, just update the "crafting requirements" and it will accommodate any flavor you want. I will likely make an update in the near future to cover level 99 armor and add a few custom options so that you don't have to delete something first.

Not sure how hard it is to do on the google spreadsheet that BARB made.

Dengel
I am not yet that confident with tool but it looks like that I can't put my idea in it to see how much would it cost

[dengel]

XBD

I just updated my calculator....
It now includes data for lvl 99 a few corrections

I made an special update just for you:
A custom leveling option which by default has been set to your special Uncommon crafted with 5x common...
If you want to further customize it, have at it on the yellow highlighted cells on H26:K26

Voila
http://www49.zippyshare.com/v/45730551/file.html

[XBDMRRFPN]

XBD

I just updated my calculator....
It now includes data for lvl 99 a few corrections

I made an special update just for you:
A custom leveling option which by default has been set to your special Uncommon crafted with 5x common...
If you want to further customize it, have at it on the yellow highlighted cells on H26:K26

Voila
http://www71.zippyshare.com/v/82269312/file.html
you are great!!!
Thank you! I'll try to understand how it works

I hope my idea will result helpful in some cases

[Marco_]

said that I noticed that the bar, when you enhance the uncommon to level 6, gets close to lvl 7.
I checked and there seem to miss just 1 point to get 25 (didn't test it yet but is something easy)

Suppose to do this procedure (that is way less heavy than uncommon 11)

suppose that you want to enhance the new blazeborne epic armor (that I got fusing Notus and Ruby) so you need basic fire

get 1 basic fire and enhance with whatever basic (maybe earth, who farms snakeskin has tons of them) getting a lvl2 fire

take your dragonflame and enhance with 3 fire basics lvl1, + the one fire basic lvl2 just enhanced with another basic

instead of getting a lvl6 dragonflame you get a lvl 7, that means 16 EP instead of 15
what do you spend more? 150+300 and 5 minutes more per 1 point enhancement and 1800 and 20 minutes for 4 EP more each enhancement without using any further slot.

Someone could think that yes maybe is an improvement, but not that big, even if at large is easier than bringing the uncommon to lvl 11 and uses better the spare got when you reach level7.
For someone that is very methodic could be interesting anyway and surely a quicker way compared to snakeskins, more efficient from the very beginning and still useful until a higher level that the lvl6

but this is just the first side.

Think about when you get the EP 50 with fusion stones.
You usually use the basics (why waste an uncommon for it?) and you get lvl1 armor that gives you 50 EP

think about enhancing both basics to lvl7, you will get a lvl7 armor worth 56 EP with a little more expense and not really big more time to get

now thing about filling the 4 slots with 56 EP each instead of 50, that would mean 24 EP more than before.

The expense for each one is 2250 so we will have to add 5500 to each 25000 spent with fusion stone bringing it to 30500 (apart the to basic to fuse so it will be 31100)
I guess that at a certain point this thing will speed up the enhancing process, especially after lvl 70...
this is what I guess, I would ask to who made the macro to try this thing and say if it is worth or not and in case when...
Enhancing uncommons: your way is probably too confusing/complicated for most people.
Much more simple:
uncommon_lvl6 (15 EP) needs 4 commons, of which at least zero need to be matching
uncommon_lvl11 (20 EP) needs 8 commons, of which at least 5 need to be matching

But interesting idea about cheaply creating 50+x EP armors.
Fusing 2x common_lvl6 would add 2 * ((300+150) * 4) = 3600 to the cost for 50+5=55 EP result.
Fusing 2x common_lvl11 would add 2 * (((300+150) * 4) + ((300+400) * 4)) = 9200 to the cost for 50+10=60 EP result.
I'm sure one of the calculators or someone can figure out at which level that's better than 50 EP armors.

[XBDMRRFPN]

Enhancing uncommons: your way is probably too confusing/complicated for most people.
Much more simple:
uncommon_lvl6 (15 EP) needs 4 commons, of which at least zero need to be matching
uncommon_lvl11 (20 EP) needs 8 commons, of which at least 5 need to be matching

But interesting idea about cheaply creating 50+x EP armors.
Fusing 2x common_lvl6 would add 2 * ((300+150) * 4) = 3600 to the cost for 50+5=55 EP result.
Fusing 2x common_lvl11 would add 2 * (((300+150) * 4) + ((300+400) * 4)) = 9200 to the cost for 50+10=60 EP result.
I'm sure one of the calculators or someone can figure out at which level that's better than 50 EP armors.
I think that the "nesting theory" is a way to optimize the output at large
I am trying to approximate the ideal curve with smallest squares, don't know if I am clear enough but the idea of getting uncommon lvl7 could optimize the use of the basic armors at the lowest price

[dengel]

I think that the nested EP would be a great way to help with leveling particularly when you get to level 50+....
If i was being really anal about trying to figure this out, I would end up putting all of this into MathCAD or another more powerful calculating engine (matlab/or true coding).. to be honest I think my time would be better used farming :)

To be realistic there are just soo many variations that it only makes sense to look at the simplest combinations like Marco suggested... Hope you are having fun with custom... let me know if you find anything interesting out...


I think that the "nesting theory" is a way to optimize the output at large
I am trying to approximate the ideal curve with smallest squares, don't know if I am clear enough but the idea of getting uncommon lvl7 could optimize the use of the basic armors at the lowest price

[Barbanium]

Sorry if it took me this late to reply. Got busy with life :p. Honestly I got so confused with XBDMRRFPN's post so let me break this down:


I noticed that between lvl 1 and 20 the uncommons at lev6 seem to be the best solution especially if you don't match the snakeskin

Depends on what type of armor you're enhancing. If it's an lvl 70, the most gold efficient is uncommon level 1. I'm not sure what this "best solution" means. Is it gold-wise or time-wise or both?


the uncommons lvl 11 seems to be a suboptimal solution (I didn't check all variances so please correct me in case I am wrong)

Well, I've seen a post in the Sticky saying that Uncommon lvl 11 could be a substitute for non-matching snakeskins if you want to make the enhancement faster (but costs more gold). So I added that option.


I speak of course about the matching uncommons (there is no reason to don't match, it's not a big deal to get any basic shreds while snakeskin is good just for 2 colors)

Actually there is a reason, enhancing Bkale. That's why I added all option with (non-matching) counter-part cause soon most of us are receiving Bkale. In case you don't know, Bkale doesn't receive EP bonus cause it doesn't match with any 5 elements.

And while snakeskin only matches 2 elements, there's a certain level that will make enhancing with NON-matching snakeskins gold-efficient.


said that I noticed that the bar, when you enhance the uncommon to level 6, gets close to lvl 7.
I checked and there seem to miss just 1 point to get 25 (didn't test it yet but is something easy)

This is what I'm confused of. Are you saying there's wrong with my calc? Lvl 70 armors get to lvl 7 at 24 EP total. Where did you get that 25? :confused:


get 1 basic fire and enhance with whatever basic (maybe earth, who farms snakeskin has tons of them) getting a lvl2 fire

take your dragonflame and enhance with 3 fire basics lvl1, + the one fire basic lvl2 just enhanced with another basic

instead of getting a lvl6 dragonflame you get a lvl 7, that means 16 EP instead of 15
what do you spend more? 150+300 and 5 minutes more per 1 point enhancement and 1800 and 20 minutes for 4 EP more each enhancement without using any further slot.

Someone could think that yes maybe is an improvement, but not that big, even if at large is easier than bringing the uncommon to lvl 11 and uses better the spare got when you reach level 7.
For someone that is very methodic could be interesting anyway and surely a quicker way compared to snakeskins, more efficient from the very beginning and still useful until a higher level that the lvl6

Still confused but here's what I got to say:

My calc assumes that you will use 4 (FOUR) SAME type of armor EVERY enhancement. So it doesn't take into account enhancing with 3 Lvl 1 Basics and 1 Lvl 2 Basic.

BUT I will make a One-time Enhancement Calculator which does that. As the title suggests, it will calculate and simulate AN (1) enhancement with the number and type of armors used to enhance OF YOUR CHOICE. The bad side is that, it's not a Level-to-level Calc. Just give me time and I'll officially release it. :D


Think about when you get the EP 50 with fusion stones.
You usually use the basics (why waste an uncommon for it?) and you get lvl1 armor that gives you 50 EP

I based Fusion Stone Armors on Basic + Basic in my calc. Look at my comment there on Type of Armor Input Box. :p


think about enhancing both basics to lvl7, you will get a lvl7 armor worth 56 EP with a little more expense and not really big more time to get

now thing about filling the 4 slots with 56 EP each instead of 50, that would mean 24 EP more than before.

The expense for each one is 2250 so we will have to add 5500 to each 25000 spent with fusion stone bringing it to 30500 (apart the to basic to fuse so it will be 31100)
I guess that at a certain point this thing will speed up the enhancing process, especially after lvl 70...
this is what I guess, I would ask to who made the macro to try this thing and say if it is worth or not and in case when...

I'm confused here but:

If you're suggesting that I should add an option of Lvl 7 Fusion Stone Armors (from combining 2 Lvl 7 Basics) then I'll think about it. Thing is I added options that most people use but we'll see :)

Now for other people's post:


great work here! Though the functionality of the estimated percentage of current ep is off. It only accepts numbers greater then 1 yet it is looking for percents. This means if you type in 10 to mean 10% it thinks its 1000% and throws it off quite a bit. so it either needs to be modified to take whatever number you give it and multiply by .01 or to just accept numbers form 0-.99

Very great spreadsheet work though :D

It's working just fine. It's just that some people who use it somehow copy that input cell and paste it to another cell. The formulas then take the value where the cell's been pasted but since it's in a different location, other people who uses the calc right puts in the value that is supposed to be put there.

I hope this makes sense. Anyhow, I fixed it as I posted this. I'll log in more often so if ever this happens again I'll fix it. It would be nice if somebody post if ever something's wrong with the calc.

Thanks Crimson Unicorn :D


XBD

I just updated my calculator....
It now includes data for lvl 99 a few corrections

I made an special update just for you:
A custom leveling option which by default has been set to your special Uncommon crafted with 5x common...
If you want to further customize it, have at it on the yellow highlighted cells on H26:K26

Voila
http://www71.zippyshare.com/v/82269312/file.html

See, the thing I hate about custom input is that: if a not-so attentive person uses the custom input and makes mistakes with his input, he'll post here saying "Oh, your calc's wrong. It's broken. Fix it. Don't post something that's broken." or something rude like that. I want it to be as automated as possible that also reduces the chances of errors so, I made the calc just like that. If you guys really like custom inputs, I'll revise it a little and put it in a downloadable version. Again, give me time. :)


Enhancing uncommons: your way is probably too confusing/complicated for most people.
Much more simple:
uncommon_lvl6 (15 EP) needs 4 commons, of which at least zero need to be matching
uncommon_lvl11 (20 EP) needs 8 commons, of which at least 5 need to be matching

But interesting idea about cheaply creating 50+x EP armors.
Fusing 2x common_lvl6 would add 2 * ((300+150) * 4) = 3600 to the cost for 50+5=55 EP result.
Fusing 2x common_lvl11 would add 2 * (((300+150) * 4) + ((300+400) * 4)) = 9200 to the cost for 50+10=60 EP result.
I'm sure one of the calculators or someone can figure out at which level that's better than 50 EP armors.


To be realistic there are just soo many variations that it only makes sense to look at the simplest combinations like Marco suggested...

Exactly, I'm confused myself. But I'll really look into it. If it's really worth adding, then why not. :)

If you got any questions/things that I didn't cover with this post/found any errors AND/OR suggestions to improve my calc/any confusing part of what I said here, please, let me know

And thank you guys for looking into my work. Really appreciate it :D

[Marco_]

This is what I'm confused of. Are you saying there's wrong with my calc? Lvl 70 armors get to lvl 7 at 24 EP total. Where did you get that 25? :confused:

He's referring to the fact that 4*6 EP from 4 matching commons nearly gets the uncommon or common to level 7.
The armors_data sheet indeed lists 25 for level 7, though the way he formulated it, it sounds like he "eyeballed" that instead of looking it up at armors_data...



Still confused but here's what I got to say:

My calc assumes that you will use 4 (FOUR) SAME type of armor EVERY enhancement. So it doesn't take into account enhancing with 3 Lvl 1 Basics and 1 Lvl 2 Basic.

Aww, so 5 matching and 3 non-matching commons getting an uncommon exactly to level 11 isn't an option in your calculator (yet)? ;)


Even though I don't have an Epic armor yet, I'm kind of curious at which level fusing 2x common_lvl6 (55 EP) or common_lvl11 (60 EP) becomes more gold efficient than fusing 2x common_lvl1 (50 EP) ...

[Barbanium]

He's referring to the fact that 4*6 EP from 4 matching commons nearly gets the uncommon or common to level 7.
The armors_data sheet indeed lists 25 for level 7, though the way he formulated it, it sounds like he "eyeballed" that instead of looking it up at armors_data...

Kk! I thought there's something wrong with the calc. No worries then. :D


Aww, so 5 matching and 3 non-matching commons getting an uncommon exactly to level 11 isn't an option in your calculator (yet)? ;)

Uhm, no. But why would you want to use 3 non-matching basics? If you're gonna use that level 11 uncommon to enhance another armor, that extra 3 EP that you get from enhancing uncommon to level 11 by using 8 MATCHING basics won't matter. So why bother craft 3 non-matching & 5 matching if you can just craft 8 matching instead?


Even though I don't have an Epic armor yet, I'm kind of curious at which level fusing 2x common_lvl6 (55 EP) or common_lvl11 (60 EP) becomes more gold efficient than fusing 2x common_lvl1 (50 EP) ...

That's a good question. So good, I don't know the answer yet. :p

But let me tell you this:

High EP armor fodder always has the potential to be gold-efficient.
I bet there is a point where that 55 and 60 EP armors will be gold-efficient as 50 EP Armors are when the level 70-cap Armor reaches level 60-ish. :)

[XBDMRRFPN]

Sorry if it took me this late to reply. Got busy with life :p. Honestly I got so confused with XBDMRRFPN's post so let me break this down:



Depends on what type of armor you're enhancing. If it's an lvl 70, the most gold efficient is uncommon level 1. I'm not sure what this "best solution" means. Is it gold-wise or time-wise or both?

I would say either gold either time. A solution that costs a little more gold but makes you save a lot of time is a good solution. A solution that makes you wait a bit more but makes you save a lot of gold is another good solution. In my case I just wanted to use better the resources


Well, I've seen a post in the Sticky saying that Uncommon lvl 11 could be a substitute for non-matching snakeskins if you want to make the enhancement faster (but costs more gold). So I added that option.

that was a good idea for sure


Actually there is a reason, enhancing Bkale. That's why I added all option with (non-matching) counter-part cause soon most of us are receiving Bkale. In case you don't know, Bkale doesn't receive EP bonus cause it doesn't match with any 5 elements.

I see, I don't have BK so I didn't think about it in the beginning but ok, fair enough
And while snakeskin only matches 2 elements, there's a certain level that will make enhancing with NON-matching snakeskins gold-efficient.



This is what I'm confused of. Are you saying there's wrong with my calc? Lvl 70 armors get to lvl 7 at 24 EP total. Where did you get that 25? :confused:


no I didn't say that! I just wanted to add an option! The uncommon get to level 7 with 25 EP, if you use 4 matching basic armors you get 24, just 1 EP shy to lvl7. I figured out a way to close this gap and not waste 4 EP. Besides a point more in the same armor to fuse can speed up the grow of the amor. Adding a lot of armors with 16EP instead of a lot of armors with 15EP, with almost the same cost could be more efficient at large and speed up things

Still confused but here's what I got to say:

My calc assumes that you will use 4 (FOUR) SAME type of armor EVERY enhancement. So it doesn't take into account enhancing with 3 Lvl 1 Basics and 1 Lvl 2 Basic.

BUT I will make a One-time Enhancement Calculator which does that. As the title suggests, it will calculate and simulate AN (1) enhancement with the number and type of armors used to enhance OF YOUR CHOICE. The bad side is that, it's not a Level-to-level Calc. Just give me time and I'll officially release it. :D

there is no rush is just a curiosity. Maybe in this way the resources are slightly optimized


I based Fusion Stone Armors on Basic + Basic in my calc. Look at my comment there on Type of Armor Input Box. :p



I'm confused here but:

If you're suggesting that I should add an option of Lvl 7 Fusion Stone Armors (from combining 2 Lvl 7 Basics) then I'll think about it. Thing is I added options that most people use but we'll see :)

thank you, is just a curiosity. Maybe is not convenient but who knows before calculating the cases?


First of all thank you for your reply. I answered in the nested quote

[XBDMRRFPN]

He's referring to the fact that 4*6 EP from 4 matching commons nearly gets the uncommon or common to level 7.
The armors_data sheet indeed lists 25 for level 7, though the way he formulated it, it sounds like he "eyeballed" that instead of looking it up at armors_data...



I don't know what you mean with "eyeballed" but I think you misunderstood completely.
I didn't criticize Barbanium neither said ever that her tool was wrong or misconfigured in some sort.

I just wanted to add the "crafting at lvl7" option.
We have the option for lvl1, lvl6, lvl11, why not a test with lvl7?
Maybe I am wrong, but maybe in certain situation will end being slightly more efficient than lvl6 for instance, or maybe not...

I am all but sure that bringing to level 7 would give a better gold/time ratio, but if it is possible to checkout why not?

[Marco_]

Uhm, no. But why would you want to use 3 non-matching basics? If you're gonna use that level 11 uncommon to enhance another armor, that extra 3 EP that you get from enhancing uncommon to level 11 by using 8 MATCHING basics won't matter. So why bother craft 3 non-matching & 5 matching if you can just craft 8 matching instead?

Because Skeletons Tomb drops a mix of earth and water shards and if you're making lots of Stonescale_lvl11 you burn through common earth armors quickly if you don't have lots of earth shards stockpiled, so using 3 common water armors is useful/saves on farming (-37.5% earth shards needed). ;)


I don't know what you mean with "eyeballed" but I think you misunderstood completely.

"Make a guess by looking at the game".
My impression from some of your posts is that you're trying to figure out a lot of the things from scratch by looking at what the game does, while you're not using the huge amount of data on armors and other things that have already been researched and collected on the various sheets of the armors_data spreadsheet.


I am all but sure that bringing to level 7 would give a better gold/time ratio, but if it is possible to checkout why not?
Personally I think even my 5 matching, 3 non-matching for _lvl11 is already too complicated/too much effort for 99% of the playerbase. And the 1% that is hardcore enough to do that, probably would get a much higher efficiency gain from for ex. leveling a TF2 to TF3 or smith2 to smith3.
So would a person with maxed TFs and smiths care for 1 extra EP at low levels when enhancing their Moontide etc?.. (9030 EP total IIRC)

tl;dr is it worth putting effort into researching maximum efficiency if more than 99% of the playerbase will prefer the much less complicated "good enough" efficiency with just a few easy rules of thumb on about which level to switch to a different type of enhancement?

[XBDMRRFPN]

"Make a guess by looking at the game".
My impression from some of your posts is that you're trying to figure out a lot of the things from scratch by looking at what the game does, while you're not using the huge amount of data on armors and other things that have already been researched and collected on the various sheets of the armors_data spreadsheet.

this is your impression, and is wrong. I looked through the spreadsheets and documentations.

Personally I think even my 5 matching, 3 non-matching for _lvl11 is already too complicated/too much effort for 99% of the playerbase. And the 1% that is hardcore enough to do that, probably would get a much higher efficiency gain from for ex. leveling a TF2 to TF3 or smith2 to smith3.
So would a person with maxed TFs and smiths care for 1 extra EP at low levels when enhancing their Moontide etc?.. (9030 EP total IIRC)

tl;dr is it worth putting effort into researching maximum efficiency if more than 99% of the playerbase will prefer the much less complicated "good enough" efficiency with just a few easy rules of thumb on about which level to switch to a different type of enhancement?
again this is your opinion. I will take note, print it, make a poster on a wall in my room, are you happy enough now?

PS I don't think that upgrading TF and AS has anything to do with what I said, they are clearly unrelated topics that I don't know why you bring in this discussion apart trying to argue in any possible way with me

[Marco_]

PS I don't think that upgrading TF and AS has anything to do with what I said, they are clearly unrelated topics that I don't know why you bring in this discussion apart trying to argue in any possible way with me
Of course they are relevant. The goal is to get your armor maxed as quickly as possible without running into bottlenecks and preferrably with as little effort as possible. TF and AS levels and numbers are pretty important tunables towards that goal.

So I really think optimizing a tiny portion of it is indeed "make a poster and put it on your wall" stuff.

[dengel]

\
Even though I don't have an Epic armor yet, I'm kind of curious at which level fusing 2x common_lvl6 (55 EP) or common_lvl11 (60 EP) becomes more gold efficient than fusing 2x common_lvl1 (50 EP) ...

Marco I did some playing around and found the following....
There is no specific level from 0-99 where lvl 6 fusions work better to bump up on level alone from a financial perspective if you start from the base level of experience.

I did try however to find a point where you are aiming for level 99 and with the level 6 fused fodder it will end up working better (starting at level 90 with 20% bar full)....
I think at the end of the day there will always be a best solution for a particular starting/ending point

Barb, I completely understand your point about no custom.... The will surely be someone try and find any errors... But so far most of the criticism has been positive.. There will always be someone like XKD who will try a new creative strategy and that could potentially pay off :) and hopefully they will be kind enough to spread the news about what works best

I particularly think that your spreadsheet is excellent, and I know how much of a pain in the butt it is to maintain these files and appreciate your hard work!

[Barbanium]

Whoa, hold your horses big boys. There's no need to fight over this. :)

XBDMRRFPN's point is that there may be ways other than the options I added in my calc that's more gold-efficient and/or time-efficient so he's just suggesting that it may be worth to investigate.

Marco_'s point is that XBD's CURRENT suggestions has effects that's too negligible, he would rather upgrade his TF's and AS's to compensate that negligible loss and he thinks most of the players would agree.

See, with XBD's CURRENT suggestions, I kinda agree with Marco_. The Gold/Time wasted when not using XBD's method would probably be around mere 100 to 1K gold or a few minutes so people would just do what they are used to do. And those are the options I added in the calc.

BUT XBD's not simply pushing his CURRENT suggestions, he's saying that this should be further investigated cause you'll never know, we may find out a better (by better I mean really BETTER like a method that saves us MILLIONS of GOLD and 24 HOURS of crafting time. Something like that. :D) method other than what are used to do. :)

[Barbanium]

Barb, I completely understand your point about no custom.... The will surely be someone try and find any errors... But so far most of the criticism has been positive.. There will always be someone like XKD who will try a new creative strategy and that could potentially pay off :) and hopefully they will be kind enough to spread the news about what works best

I particularly think that your spreadsheet is excellent, and I know how much of a pain in the butt it is to maintain these files and appreciate your hard work!

Well, thank you dengel. :D I gotta admit even with my above average knowledge of writing this thing, it made me Google some complicated formulas used in some parts to insure as little errors as possible.

Negative criticism isn't so bad. It'll help me improve the calc, in fact. It's the rude comments that I hate. I mean I don't get anything other than "Thanks" and praises for me to release this for public use so there's no really point of doing that.

And yeah, XBD's creativity opens a new path of enhancing armors. It's only a matter of time before the hard-core most gold/time-efficient way to enhance is discovered. :)

And thanks again for your positive feedback on my calc. It's guys like you that motivates me to make this. (tears of joy) :D

[XBDMRRFPN]

Of course they are relevant. The goal is to get your armor maxed as quickly as possible without running into bottlenecks and preferrably with as little effort as possible. TF and AS levels and numbers are pretty important tunables towards that goal.

So I really think optimizing a tiny portion of it is indeed "make a poster and put it on your wall" stuff.
my hypotesis was that you have already your castle completed and the stuff already upgraded, but no, it's not relevant what you said because what I am trying to investigate is a method for optimization or the use of armors.
So whatever is your level of AS and TF it doesn't change a bit really if the point is using the EP in the most efficient way.

If it is the most efficient way is the most efficient way either with level 1 or level 2 or level 3 TF and AS.

I think this should be clear now.

It's a procedure to upgrade the armors that uses the same logic we use when we get a lvl6 armor just trying to give an edge

now I hope that you will stop stalking me and saying "this post is too long" "this post is too short" "In my opinion this post shouldn't be in this thread" "I don't like what you wrote" "I think that what you wrote is useless" (even if you find something interesting)

This is not the first time you stalk me but I would say the 4th or the 5th time that you haunt my messages to answer in a polemic way.

we understood that you hate me and that you are trying to find any excuse to fight with me.
Get a life or stalk someone else.
Thank you.

[XBDMRRFPN]

Whoa, hold your horses big boys. There's no need to fight over this. :)

XBDMRRFPN's point is that there may be ways other than the options I added in my calc that's more gold-efficient and/or time-efficient so he's just suggesting that it may be worth to investigate.

Marco_'s point is that XBD's CURRENT suggestions has effects that's too negligible, he would rather upgrade his TF's and AS's to compensate that negligible loss and he thinks most of the players would agree.

See, with XBD's CURRENT suggestions, I kinda agree with Marco_. The Gold/Time wasted when not using XBD's method would probably be around mere 100 to 1K gold or a few minutes so people would just do what they are used to do. And those are the options I added in the calc.

BUT XBD's not simply pushing his CURRENT suggestions, he's saying that this should be further investigated cause you'll never know, we may find out a better (by better I mean really BETTER like a method that saves us MILLIONS of GOLD and 24 HOURS of crafting time. Something like that. :D) method other than what are used to do. :)
Because of the fight you didn't get the point I am afraid.
This is a method that if used for long can save aggregate more gold/time that is actually what is all about here.
Sure there could be methods to save more, mine was just a suggestion to further investigation before the stalker started to hijack the conversation just for the sake of it.

[Sifu]

Maybe I have just not figured out all the finer detail of the calculator yet. So far, it seems to give a good idea the total cost to get from point A to point B. I guess you can additionally tell how many more enhances you need to do to get there. Can this be used as you approach max to tell if you still need to apply 4 armors? In my specific case, I would assume so. However, I imagine there are times when maybe you only need two or maybe three snakeskins to go from your current armor level to max. It seems this calculator is making the assumption of always using four. While that is true for almost all cases, the edge case of the last enhance to max might be different.

[inkjets]

Cool. Thanks

[Barbanium]

Maybe I have just not figured out all the finer detail of the calculator yet. So far, it seems to give a good idea the total cost to get from point A to point B. I guess you can additionally tell how many more enhances you need to do to get there. Can this be used as you approach max to tell if you still need to apply 4 armors? In my specific case, I would assume so. However, I imagine there are times when maybe you only need two or maybe three snakeskins to go from your current armor level to max. It seems this calculator is making the assumption of always using four. While that is true for almost all cases, the edge case of the last enhance to max might be different.

That's a flaw that I think I can't fix, figuring out whether you'll need to use 4 armors OR less for your last enhancement to reach the max level. See, I can't really determine in which row (in the simulation box) the enhancement will end.

And NO, as of now, it ALWAYS assumes that the user will use 4 (FOUR) of the SAME type of armor in EVERY enhancement to enhance an armor.

And it doesn't just give you a "good idea," it gives you the EXACT amount of gold you'll be spending when you're enhancing your armor from A to B. That's calculated from how much gold is spent when crafting the armors used to enhance PLUS the enhancement costs at certain levels. Of course as of now, the calculation takes into account that the last enhancement will always use 4 SAME type of armor as fodder.

BUT I'll try as much as I can to fix this flaw. Hey, I fixed the "only 1, 2, and 4 armorsmiths" problem, I might also fix this, too. Thanks Sifu for commenting about this! :D

[dengel]

Barb...

While it may be a trivial suggestion to help that issue.
In my calc I show how much EP is required to get to the desired level from the current. (Call that x)
Call (y) as the amount of EP you get per 4x items (whatever they are by user choice)
call (z) the amount of EP you get per 1x item
If you take that value (x) and find the remainder with respect to (y) - excel has a function called mod() which will do that, then you could divide that remainder by (z) and I believe that should give you an idea of the number of items required total.

A much simpler way (not as elegant) divide X by z and you know the amount of items required.




That's a flaw that I think I can't fix, figuring out whether you'll need to use 4 armors OR less for your last enhancement to reach the max level. See, I can't really determine in which row (in the simulation box) the enhancement will end.

And NO, as of now, it ALWAYS assumes that the user will use 4 (FOUR) of the SAME type of armor in EVERY enhancement to enhance an armor.

And it doesn't just give you a "good idea," it gives you the EXACT amount of gold you'll be spending when you're enhancing your armor from A to B. That's calculated from how much gold is spent when crafting the armors used to enhance PLUS the enhancement costs at certain levels. Of course as of now, the calculation takes into account that the last enhancement will always use 4 SAME type of armor as fodder.

BUT I'll try as much as I can to fix this flaw. Hey, I fixed the "only 1, 2, and 4 armorsmiths" problem, I might also fix this, too. Thanks Sifu for commenting about this! :D

[Sifu]

That's a flaw that I think I can't fix, figuring out whether you'll need to use 4 armors OR less for your last enhancement to reach the max level. See, I can't really determine in which row (in the simulation box) the enhancement will end.

And NO, as of now, it ALWAYS assumes that the user will use 4 (FOUR) of the SAME type of armor in EVERY enhancement to enhance an armor.

And it doesn't just give you a "good idea," it gives you the EXACT amount of gold you'll be spending when you're enhancing your armor from A to B. That's calculated from how much gold is spent when crafting the armors used to enhance PLUS the enhancement costs at certain levels. Of course as of now, the calculation takes into account that the last enhancement will always use 4 SAME type of armor as fodder.

BUT I'll try as much as I can to fix this flaw. Hey, I fixed the "only 1, 2, and 4 armorsmiths" problem, I might also fix this, too. Thanks Sifu for commenting about this! :D

Ok, thanks for the response! It's not a big deal, I just happened to be maxing my first of the big 4 (Crius) and noticed that. I was curious about it. Since it only affects one enhancement in the entire life of the armor, it doesn't seem important enough to me to spend a lot of time on finding a solution. I was curious more than anything.

As to my comment about a "good idea" how much gold, I have confidence your numbers are right. That comment has to do with user variability rather than a comment on the accuracy of your sim. While I do mostly snakeskin, if chests or epic boss rewards throw other armors at me, I may throw in a 2 star or level 11 mono here and there. It's my variation in the enhancement fodder that changes the final costs and I recognize that.

Not only does it change the costs of the mats used because they were free or mostly so, it also potentially changes the stopping level of an enhance which can change all the math. If 4 x snakeskin would have taken the armor to level 6, the next enhance will be 1600. If I use some piece from boss rewards, maybe the armor goes to level 7 instead of 6 and that second enhance now costs more...and might chain into the next couple of enhances. I didn't do the math on that, just picking out a random example of what I meant.

[Barbanium]

Barb...

While it may be a trivial suggestion to help that issue.
In my calc I show how much EP is required to get to the desired level from the current. (Call that x)
Call (y) as the amount of EP you get per 4x items (whatever they are by user choice)
call (z) the amount of EP you get per 1x item
If you take that value (x) and find the remainder with respect to (y) - excel has a function called mod() which will do that, then you could divide that remainder by (z) and I believe that should give you an idea of the number of items required total.

A much simpler way (not as elegant) divide X by z and you know the amount of items required.

Thanks dengel! I totally get what you're saying here but there's much more to think about specially when there's a remainder of armors crafted for the enhancement EVEN BEFORE the last enhancement so I also have to take that into account.

And not only the cost changes but the total time to craft all of these armors as well. Now, that's way, way, WAY more complicated than cost calculation.

But anyway here's the good news: I FIGURED IT OUT!

With your big help, I managed to do all that! :D One flaw still, even if the remaining EP needed to max is very very small, it will still use what type of armor is indicate in the intput; just the number of that type of armor is changed in the last enhancement.

E.g.:

needed EP to max armor: 25
number of matching snakeskins used in the last enhancement: 2

See, 1 matching snakeskin will cover 24 EP. 25-24 =1. Even though a basic armor can cover that 1 remaining EP needed, the calc will still assume that you'll use ANOTHER matching snakeskin since that is indicated in the input. (IT ALWAYS ASSUMES THAT YOU WILL USE SAME TYPE OF ARMOR INDICATED IN INPUT)

BUT, the calc that I'm working on will fix this. I'll release it when it's ready. :D

I'm updating the calc as I'm typing this.


Ok, thanks for the response! It's not a big deal, I just happened to be maxing my first of the big 4 (Crius) and noticed that. I was curious about it. Since it only affects one enhancement in the entire life of the armor, it doesn't seem important enough to me to spend a lot of time on finding a solution. I was curious more than anything.

As to my comment about a "good idea" how much gold, I have confidence your numbers are right. That comment has to do with user variability rather than a comment on the accuracy of your sim. While I do mostly snakeskin, if chests or epic boss rewards throw other armors at me, I may throw in a 2 star or level 11 mono here and there. It's my variation in the enhancement fodder that changes the final costs and I recognize that.

Not only does it change the costs of the mats used because they were free or mostly so, it also potentially changes the stopping level of an enhance which can change all the math. If 4 x snakeskin would have taken the armor to level 6, the next enhance will be 1600. If I use some piece from boss rewards, maybe the armor goes to level 7 instead of 6 and that second enhance now costs more...and might chain into the next couple of enhances. I didn't do the math on that, just picking out a random example of what I meant.

Yeah, the calc assumes that you will craft ALL your enhancing armors. It will be too complicated if I add another input to tell how much of enhancing armors are gotten from chests/rewards.

But we'll see. I've underestimated myself saying I can't fix the previous flaw. I may be able to find a workaround on this, too.

Thanks for suggesting dengel and Sifu! :D

[Barbanium]

Hey people! I added the One-time Enhancement Calculator (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao5016Mn5Xg6dFh1eEJkZjNhZlJnMXljWHlvMjJYb 3c#gid=4). Please check it out!

FULL LINK:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao5016Mn5Xg6dFh1eEJkZjNhZlJnMXljWHlvMjJYb 3c#gid=4

[Sifu]

Awesome! Thanks for all the work.

[AutoGun]

Thanks so much for this! It has really helped!

[Barbanium]

Just bumping :)

[Renegade223g]

This calculator has helped me tremendously.....

I know you put a lot of effort into the calculator and I wanted to add my thanks to the others.

I wish I could contribute in some way but for now I will just use it as often as I can and give credit to you when I tell my guild members about it..

Sincerely,
Renegade223g

PS - Wise One, I think this one deserves a sticky!!!

[Sifu]

This calculator has helped me tremendously.....

I know you put a lot of effort into the calculator and I wanted to add my thanks to the others.

I wish I could contribute in some way but for now I will just use it as often as I can and give credit to you when I tell my guild members about it..

Sincerely,
Renegade223g

PS - Wise One, I think this one deserves a sticky!!!

I would second that!

[Barbanium]

PS - Wise One, I think this one deserves a sticky!!!


I would second that!

I'm gonna be really shocked if this thread gets sticky-ed before Data Sheet Administration and Theorycrafting: solved the Epic Boss damage! threads do.

But if it really does, regardless of before or after them, I'm gonna be SUPER happy! :D

Hey, you guys are the reason why I'm keeping this up. So, thank you. :)

[DG Magneto]

Both calculators are extremely useful, Thank you.

Any chance you could do a Fusion calculator for those wanting 4 or 5 star armors?
Basically to compute odds and possible results.
To keep it simple assume only 4* inputs.

[TwisTer]

Pretty useful.. thank you

[Kevgard]

Thanks for the awesome tool! So for leveling a 70 armor, I'm seeing that using snakeskins until around level 63 before switching to fusion armors seems the be the most gold efficient method. Is this generally agreed upon?

I've also heard of using spectral captain armor instead of fusion armor altogether, does anyone have any info on that?

[Marco_]

Thanks for the awesome tool! So for leveling a 70 armor, I'm seeing that using snakeskins until around level 63 before switching to fusion armors seems the be the most gold efficient method. Is this generally agreed upon?
Yes, for snakeskin matching at least 1 element with the level 70 armor, about level 62 seems to be agreed as snakeskin upper boundary. For non-matching, level 50 seems to be the general number.



I've also heard of using spectral captain armor instead of fusion armor altogether, does anyone have any info on that?
Spectral Captain == lots of farming needed and base craft time is 24 hours AKA 12 times as long as Snakeskin which would then give you a 90/72EP armor instead of a 50/40EP armor you'd get from fusing (or 24/20EP for Snakeskin), so probably not worth it unless you're all out of fusion stones and short on money.

[Silent follower]

Spectral Captain == lots of farming needed and base craft time is 24 hours AKA 12 times as long as Snakeskin which would then give you a 90/72EP armor instead of a 50/40EP armor you'd get from fusing (or 24/20EP for Snakeskin), so probably not worth it unless you're all out of fusion stones and short on money.

When doing Moontide/Cloudrange Epics, SCUs are a good alternative if you have time. One SCU gives 1 EP for about 900gold, while fusionstones gives 1 EP for 1100gold from lvl74 onwards. Actually SCU:s are cheaper already much earlier compared to fusion stones for any water/spirit armor. Use a calculator and be surprised how early. Also Swamps are good, but Dark Prince or Infernal Lords are not good as they are too expensive to craft.

I craft SCU/Swamp when I can't play for 24h due to something offline.

[Marco_]

When doing Moontide/Cloudrange Epics, SCUs are a good alternative if you have time. One SCU gives 1 EP for about 900gold, while fusionstones gives 1 EP for 1100gold from lvl74 onwards. Actually SCU:s are cheaper already much earlier compared to fusion stones for any water/spirit armor. Use a calculator and be surprised how early. Also Swamps are good, but Dark Prince or Infernal Lords are not good as they are too expensive to craft.
I craft SCU/Swamp when I can't play for 24h due to something offline.
That should probably be the only reason to do that. Gold/day should exceed 500K, so with crafting 3-star armors as enhancements, you swing the bottleneck way over to the other side from gold to crafting capacity...

[raydenpduff]

Good thing I joined. I was able to see that there is something like this.

[Sifu]

Man, this dropped way back. Wish it was stickied.

[Barbanium]

bumpity bump :p

[Barbanium]

Important news! Please see first page.

[CalcGriefed]

Since the calculator isn't working for me anymore and I didn't get a chance to download, would it possible for someone who has already downloaded it to put up the excel sheet? Or PM here.

Thanks in advance!