Gree - I need an explanation on CP

[Warmonger]

Please explain to me how my LLP of level 103 has 4 hits all under 300 on a level 168 player this makes no sense and is so inconsistent, that should have given me great points for 25 gems.

What's more disturbing is seeing my HLP get 333 points for hitting another level 174 player.

so how the hell are CP points rewarded? I've also never understood how hitting the same player can also give very different points per hit .

[Dirt road Joe]

This question has been asked many times... The odds of you getting any kind of solid answers is about as likely as me taking the hat off of my head and pulling a rabbit out of it.

Don't worry, if I manage it I will keep you posted...:p

[Warmonger]

Yeah it happens every war. LLP scores 385 next hit which is what's expected. But HLP hits a different player 3 levels higher and only gets 198. Its a total lottery.

[Dirt road Joe]

Yeah it happens every war. LLP scores 385 next hit which is what's expected. But HLP hits a different player 3 levels higher and only gets 198. Its a total lottery.

I know exactly what your saying. They have said in the past that leveling is not meant to be a penalty. But its very clear that the higher level you are the less points you score, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. So one day they may change the algorithms a bit to where it doesn't calculate CPs the way they are now. But I don't think that day is any time soon.

[Kjctnorris]

I was wondering why Joe always has rabbit poop on his head...

[itsaklayton]

I worked really hard and spent upwards of 18,000 gems in the box event to win the 125 attack boost, with the understanding that my charachter's performance would improve exponentially. What a complete fraud. I now have increase Army Attack to 328 (^33%) with ZERO IMPROVEMENT in PvP or CPs from wars. I have demanded a refund of all gems and money wasted for the worthless boost. I am getting lower CPs than ever. Three other guildmates received the boost with the same results. WE WERE DECEIVED BY GREE.

[ezinap]

I worked really hard and spent upwards of 18,000 gems in the box event to win the 125 attack boost, with the understanding that my charachter's performance would improve exponentially. What a complete fraud. I now have increase Army Attack to 328 (^33%) with ZERO IMPROVEMENT in PvP or CPs from wars. I have demanded a refund of all gems and money wasted for the worthless boost. I am getting lower CPs than ever. Three other guildmates received the boost with the same results. WE WERE DECEIVED BY GREE.
We all know that CPs are mainly determined by level difference and secondly are rather random. (Although some believe that simultaneous attacks on one player score worse)
If you already won 100% of your attacks, it is kind of silly to expect an improvement...
Other than that, yes you are deceived. Enjoy!

[steve_r]

Do we have a consensus that cp rewards dropped in the last couple wars? Feels like it.

[War Eagle]

I worked really hard and spent upwards of 18,000 gems in the box event to win the 125 attack boost, with the understanding that my charachter's performance would improve exponentially. What a complete fraud. I now have increase Army Attack to 328 (^33%) with ZERO IMPROVEMENT in PvP or CPs from wars. I have demanded a refund of all gems and money wasted for the worthless boost. I am getting lower CPs than ever. Three other guildmates received the boost with the same results. WE WERE DECEIVED BY GREE.

A high attack skill score will increase your chances of winning a fight but doesn't seem to affect your CPs. That appears to be more of a combination of your level, your opponent's level, and Gree's random modifier.

Also, it's not a worthless boost. It just doesn't work the way you assumed it would. I definitely wouldn't call that fraud or deception.

And "worked really hard" -- seriously?

[Silent follower]

Do we have a consensus that cp rewards dropped in the last couple wars? Feels like it.

I must agree, I beat a player 59lvls above me ten times, but not a single time I got over 400 CPs. Max was only about 380. In earlier wars I've scored 450 CPs as a record, an record is over 1600 CPs from four hits. For over 40 levels above i regularly got over 400 cps. Now I got barely over 1000, even if this is the second highest level difference I've won.

[War Eagle]

I must agree, I beat a player 59lvls above me ten times, but not a single time I got over 400 CPs. Max was only about 380. In earlier wars I've scored 450 CPs as a record, an record is over 1600 CPs from four hits. For over 40 levels above i regularly got over 400 cps. Now I got barely over 1000, even if this is the second highest level difference I've won.

Have you leveled since the last war? The higher you go, the less CP you get for the same win.

[Person]

What I found is that a 49 lvl gap gives the best CP. ally difference also has an influence, if for next war everyone could record their CPs on people lvl x with y allies I'm fairly certain we can derive the equation behind the CP count, - the obvious random factor everything with Gree always has.

[itsaklayton]

A high attack skill score will increase your chances of winning a fight but doesn't seem to affect your CPs. That appears to be more of a combination of your level, your opponent's level, and Gree's random modifier.Also, it's not a worthless boost. It just doesn't work the way you assumed it would. I definitely wouldn't call that fraud or deception.And "worked really hard" -- seriously?Since you are a fount of knowledge, please explain to me how this 33 percent increase in my Army Attack skill is intended to function. I would like a real example, please. I am lvl 200, HS 220, ATT 1765, DEF 1784 (unboosted), Army Att 328, Army Def 110. There is no change in the win/lose parameters. I win against the same players and lose to the same as well. I await your input.

[-OP-]

I'm level 132 and was hitting level 200 for cp returns between 175 and 450. Most came in between 250 and 325. No sense at all.

[War Eagle]

Since you are a fount of knowledge, please explain to me how this 33 percent increase in my Army Attack skill is intended to function. I would like a real example, please. I am lvl 200, HS 220, ATT 1765, DEF 1784 (unboosted), Army Att 328, Army Def 110. There is no change in the win/lose parameters. I win against the same players and lose to the same as well. I await your input.

I already told you. It increases your CHANCES of winning a fight. It's explained right there on the skill points page:

"Army attack increases your chances of winning when fighting against rivals"

But you just have to understand that, due to the random modifier buillt into the fight system, there's no way you can say "My attack score went up by X so now I can beat a player with Y defense." It just doesn't work that way.

Another thing you have to consider is you don't know what a rival player's defense score is. That throws even more uncertainty into the equation.

[War Eagle]

I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a diminishing return factor as well, similar to hero strength. At a certain point, perhaps the chance of us winning or losing a fight, as determined by our attack and defense skill points, is effectively capped. So who knows, maybe at a certain point the benefit of adding to your attack/defense skills becomes too small to make a noticeable difference.

[Shinazueli]

I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a diminishing return factor as well, similar to hero strength. At a certain point, perhaps the chance of us winning or losing a fight, as determined by our attack and defense skill points, is effectively capped. So who knows, maybe at a certain point the benefit of adding to your attack/defense skills becomes too small to make a noticeable difference.


This. Good game designs utilize diminshing returns to prevent unexpected results. I'm assuming that even if this doesn't qualify as one of these, they still use them to screw players over. A 1% increase in your W/L ratio is still an increase. It will never affect your CPs, that's pretty much strongly based on level and ally count, and weakly based on the difference in relative stats. So the more wars you participate in, and the longer you play, the less points you will gain. However, this isn't "new" or "unfair" because it applies to everyone. Each single player will find their ability to gain conquest points will get harder the longer they are playing.

Person, I've tried to get people to submit data, but they seem to think that "this one time I got only 200 points for attacking someone umpty squat levels higher than me" qualifies as data. I have given up on people's ability to understand the simple concept of more data = better results. They just want to b i t c h. Let Em.

TLDR: based on a whole lot of my guilds data, CPs are mostly random, with a small overall increase if there is an extremely large level gap. This is true across all levels. Deal.

[Chief_K]

I know that much has been discussed about the bonus in CP for attacking up a level but does the opponent's ally count have any impact? I see both sides of the argument where people see it as unfair that particularly LLPs are favored by the bonus (especially considering lvl 200 players could never get the bonus) but I also think that there should be some bonus for attacking players "better" than you. And by better, I guess I mean they have the potential to be better. For the most part, increased stats are fairly well linked to XP and level. In most cases, you get the best units by participating in the events which require you to earn XP along the way. Thus, as your stats increase so does your level. I think then if you have better stats than someone a level ahead, you are essentially playing the game better and should be rewarded. (Although I will agree that the stat inflation of the newer units makes it harder to justify my theory).

But back to my original question, if you recieve a bonus for defeating a higher level opponent, shouldn't you also be able to receive a bonus for defeating an opponent with more allies than you? Especially since they can bring more units to battle and thus have a greater potential again to be better? I honestly don't seem to notice much of a boost when I attack enemies with high ally counts but I definitely notice the boost when I attack higher level players. What do you all think?

[War Eagle]

I know that much has been discussed about the bonus in CP for attacking up a level but does the opponent's ally count have any impact?


It appears so. If I attack two players with comparable stats and level, I tend to get more CPs from the one with the higher ally count.

[Fazz]

Do we have a consensus that cp rewards dropped in the last couple wars? Feels like it.

Standy points have definitely dropped off, 400+ hits are so rare now. I was even getting low 200 point scores from players 40+ levels higher

[Shinazueli]

Standy points have definitely dropped off, 400+ hits are so rare now. I was even getting low 200 point scores from players 40+ levels higher

I think they added in a relative stats modifier that weakly affects the total, as even with the random nature I can still see a small increase when I attack the same level player with 500k vs 1.5M stats. Good on them, but it's almost impossible to get higher scores now. Which ofc helps Gree.

[Sludgeboy]

The lower the CP, the more you have to spend to make up. Basic economics, Supply and Demand.

BTW, no one is forcing anyone to buy gems. Its your choice......Do I hear I failed 'Boycott' coming?:cool:

[phopjon]

Person, I've tried to get people to submit data, but they seem to think that "this one time I got only 200 points for attacking someone umpty squat levels higher than me" qualifies as data. I have given up on people's ability to understand the simple concept of more data = better results. They just want to b i t c h. Let Em.

Don't you go bringing things like "math" and "sample size" and "data" into these conversations!

lol...umpty squat...that's goin in the phrase bank

[procsyzarc]

Since you are a fount of knowledge, please explain to me how this 33 percent increase in my Army Attack skill is intended to function. I would like a real example, please. I am lvl 200, HS 220, ATT 1765, DEF 1784 (unboosted), Army Att 328, Army Def 110. There is no change in the win/lose parameters. I win against the same players and lose to the same as well. I await your input.

If I understand it correctly the prize was 125 points in attack (the skill point attack) this does not show on your profile and would have no effect on CP.

PVP is worked out (attack from profile + ATTACK SKILL POINTS x ###) x a random factor VS (defence from profile + defence skill points x ###) x a random factor who ever ends with the higher number wins.

### = not sure of the exact value but it’s not very high ie between 1 and 10 and makes almost no difference in pvp at high levels
The random factor I am guessing is aprox 70-130%

As you raised the part of the formula in caps the effect of which is almost nothing probably the equivalent of 1000 attack tops which with attacks and defences in the millions is negligible at best.

I think you misunderstood the prize and over paid for a worthless prize that does exactly what it is meant to, either that or I miss understood the prize and skipped it incorrectly.

If it was army attack then i read it wrong and it would affect pve not pvp so would still have no effect on CP

[Shinazueli]

Incorrect. The correct formula would be (your profile attack * (1+(attack skill points/100))) * rand(.7-1.3)

Meaning its multiplicative and affects your stats MORE as you get higher stats.

[LordIndy]

What I found is that a 49 lvl gap gives the best CP. ally difference also has an influence, if for next war everyone could record their CPs on people lvl x with y allies I'm fairly certain we can derive the equation behind the CP count, - the obvious random factor everything with Gree always has.

This is what I have seen too if you go more than 50 levels above there are diminishing returns. We all know level difference plays a role. For the top guilds, they are primarily top stat players with high levels. As they level up, they get closer to the top level, their scores will gradually decrease simply because past level 152 or so they will no longer be able to achieve top returns.

Even at a lower level it is tough since lower levels go up faster than higher levels. When the wars started, I was level 80 or so, now I am level 110. The level 130 player I was hitting in the first war has probably leveled half of that and is no longer in my ideal range. So to find targets in top guilds closer to 160 that I can hit is challenging as there is a huge difference between 145 and 160.

So I imagine someone at Gree envisioned this law of diminishing returns and was quite brilliant in the light of ever increasing scores. Increasing scores/lower returns = more gems being spent. That is the money equation.

[E-I]

Gotta love how Gree penalizes you for actually playing the game. I have had to stop attacking players and killing monsters outside of LTQs.

[Shinazueli]

Lol. Most of us stopped that a long time ago. Welcome to KA.