This game is unsustainable

[possum]

At the rate of these "events," at the massive level of inflation in player scores and income, Gree is sowing its own seeds of destruction and there's really nothing they can do about it now.

I can understand Gree's desire to churn out these things as much as possible as each event is a catalyst for real cash for them, but it carries with it a systemic danger as it creates a huge rift that is impossible to overcome for newer players.

At this point, most factions are stealing players from each other, or merging. It's a self-defeating cycle that shrinks the amount of factions involved in these events. Newer, low level players stand no chance of being able to participate at an even half-decent level and they will NEVER be able to catch up as the ceiling is always rising. I'll say that again, the ceiling is always rising.

The amount of newer players being pulled up into factions is far less than the amount players being shifted down or completely out. It's unsustainable. I see it happening now. Gree needs a new strategy, one that keeps us old players engaged, but at the same time doesn't alienate newer players.

[SGT Rud]

I usually take new players, given that they are active. I know several other factions that do the same. Even though points keep inflating, our faction continues to climb in place. Also seems to me that the higher your stats, the less the prizes of bosses you use in battle, but weaker/newer players will. There are tons of factions. During WD, you only see 4000, but when we had the FvF, we got to see back to 10000. And we started there at 0 points, so I know where we stand.

If I have 10 open spots in my faction, as a top 500, why wouldn't I want to grab another top 500 and merge? Essentially adding points together, we could make 250 and bump everyone down, and make room for another faction outside top 500 to come up. Is fun by beating others not the point of the game. Does everything on this forum have to be anti-Gree. I mean seriously, another thread about how gree is going to go under because of the way they run their business. Obviously from a business stand point, CC and KA where hits, people spend money, they increased with MW, profits go up even more, They expand again, War of Nations..... Do you get it. Doesn't really seem like its going under anytime soon. But logically I am a fortune teller.

If I went to McDonalds and asked for a BigMac, and got a QP with a bug on it, I would not go back to spend money. Its really that simple.

[possum]

I have no idea what you what mean by a "new player," I presume you mean new player to your faction who is level 100+ with an inflated score.

I'm not talking about that and you kind of proved my point of bumping people down; the flow down far outweighs any trickle up.

[SGT Rud]

I have no idea what you what mean by a "new player," I presume you mean new player to your faction who is level 100+ with an inflated score.

I'm not talking about that and you kind of proved my point of bumping people down; the flow down far outweighs any trickle up.

Nope - I mean new players to my faction in the 20s and 30s level range. And I was talking about bumping factions down the list, not people. Or are you meaning every faction remains in the ranking they are in and no way to move up or down. Because I want to be #1, its the point of the game, to be the best and have fun doing it. But I am a free player, so moving to the #1 slot isn't going to happen.

[possum]

Well, I have no idea if that's true and bravo if it is indeed truthful, but I would guess that any top 500, or even top 1,000 faction for that matter would rarely, if ever, do that. There's no benefit to that at all. But clearly you are the exception.

In any case, I stand by assessment; inflation, the means to which Gree makes cash is, ironically, detrimental to this game over the long-term.

[SGT Rud]

During WD, we fight factions all the time who have players ranging from level 15-140. And the flash screen confirms they are in top 500, points very similiar to ours. All my players have people they can attack. It is a game of money, spend more to win. It is still a game of play at your liesure. Choose to play every so often. Its not like the more powerful your rivals get, you move up the chain with them. They will get strong, level up, move up, and replaced with others of equal strength to you. This will all happen on your rivals list, even without you watching.

I have read through your earlier posts. Seems you have nothing to say other than negative comments. I especially loved the comment, about if any of your faction members derclare war you will boot them out. Great team work. Your an awesome leader.

[possum]

Whatever you say Mr. Sunshine. I'm not here to throw insults at people, and I, unlike you, exhibited a bit of restraint. But thanks. What else would you like to say to derail this thread?

[ProCision]

There are benefits to having level 20 players. Scouting, pa on dl... Depends how many people in your faction are on for that war. Toss in a few llp and you have enough to take down a wall, take out the dl and get some points.

[LagBolt]

It is sustainable. Even on android its the 21st most grossing game- and that's with all the problems it has. People just complain about inflation and the amount of events then they go and buy tons of gold anyway.
You see, as long as people buy gold, nothing will change. Why should they? its making huge profits because people can't pull themselves away from pushing the buy gold button. If people really are that bothered, then stop buying gold

[Max Power]

Has any video game ever been sustainable, in the grand scheme of things?

[possum]

I'm not talking about the here and now; I'm talking about the future and the means to which this game is so high on the list. That ever-increasing ceiling--that they must continue with now--is creating such a void (especially in regards to faction vs faction) that nothing can stop what, I believe, is inevitable. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion: one is disgusted at what is about to happen, but can't seem to take their eyes off of it.

[possum]

Has any video game ever been sustainable, in the grand scheme of things?

No, but they aren't doing themselves any favors IMO.

[Anonymously Yours]

Sometimes people don't care. That's true for companies, too. This seems to be a match made in Hades by Old Beezlebub himself.

[Thief]

Has any video game ever been sustainable, in the grand scheme of things?

Nope and in a way i agree with the OP. The game will die...NOT the game model the game. Thats why you keep pumping out a new "platform" every 6 months. Why did they put out KA? MQ (which is probably their lowest grossing), now another new one? War of nations. That is how the company will deal with the attrition rate of their current games.

[possum]

There has to be a way where newer players can become a part of the higher level factions without being cannon fodder or a charity case. I'm not sure how it can be done, maybe an artificial boost that shrinks while leveling up, but something needs to fill that gap.

Most of these newer players are on the outside looking in and they'll never be able to catch up with the way the game is currently structured and the way wars are done. That ceiling is always going to be moving up. If that's what they want, then so be it.

Gree is betting everything on the top few, neglecting a potential pool of newer players that stand no chance. Putting all your eggs in one basket is such a cliche, but well worth mentioning in this case. If they walk out...

[Generik79]

Nope and in a way i agree with the OP. The game will die...NOT the game model the game. Thats why you keep pumping out a new "platform" every 6 months. Why did they put out KA? MQ (which is probably their lowest grossing), now another new one? War of nations. That is how the company will deal with the attrition rate of their current games.

Absolutely right. There are cool things about GREE's tweaks on the platform--but they are just tweaks...the platform is practically ancient. I am surprised that they seem to be trying somewhat to save this ship...but their own development process, which, based on the QA of the Tatra ne Malagasy Outpust, moves at a snail's pace, will hinder them significantly. My guess is this and support non-responsiveness are due, in part, to the rolling out of new platforms ASAP every 6 months. In any event, there is a small segment of the public that games, a smaller set that will spend at all, and a really tiny set that will spend the kind of money this game now requires to play at a high level. In order to survive, that entire small set of spenders and tiny set of big spenders needs to have their interest held...you are seeing that attempt crash and burn on a weekly, daily, and sometimes hourly basis.

[possum]

I disagree, this game is good and fundamentally sound, but Gree is its own worse enemy. They have to make money, but they're not balancing it very well. How much higher can they push? They are, for lack of a better term, stuck between a rock and a hard place, at their own doing.

Their methods all but ensures newer blood won't fill the voids of players leaving. They must know this and you're right, maybe that was their plan all along.

[Alaneapen]

I love this game and i hope this game lasts for some time, I put too much money to throw this game away.

[SGT Rud]

Again, as I have said before. You DO NOT need to have high stats to be #1, or high stats to be competetive. I agree with the fact that the game will eventually die, and another take its place. Happens with cars, happens with companies, happens in general. In biology, its called evolution. In actuality, stats has nothing to do with what place you come in in WD or FvF. Its how much money you want to spend. My stats are only 170K and out of 29 members in my faction, we range down. Most of our players are 90K-50K. We are placing top 500. Its not cannon fodder or charity, its teamwork, its communication. Would I like to have high stats - Not really. I enjoy having opponents to beat, and opponents who can beat me. Its the strategy involved. What would be fun about being the highest stat guy in the game. But thats just me, others have a different opinion.

[Agent Orange]

At the rate of these "events," at the massive level of inflation in player scores and income, Gree is sowing its own seeds of destruction and there's really nothing they can do about it now.

I can understand Gree's desire to churn out these things as much as possible as each event is a catalyst for real cash for them, but it carries with it a systemic danger as it creates a huge rift that is impossible to overcome for newer players.

At this point, most factions are stealing players from each other, or merging. It's a self-defeating cycle that shrinks the amount of factions involved in these events. Newer, low level players stand no chance of being able to participate at an even half-decent level and they will NEVER be able to catch up as the ceiling is always rising. I'll say that again, the ceiling is always rising.

The amount of newer players being pulled up into factions is far less than the amount players being shifted down or completely out. It's unsustainable. I see it happening now. Gree needs a new strategy, one that keeps us old players engaged, but at the same time doesn't alienate newer players.

It took you this long to figure this out?

[possum]

No, I've made many veiled comments regarding this is the past. It's just reached a ridiculous point.

[MerlinBlack]

Has any video game ever been sustainable, in the grand scheme of things?
Yes.
Eve Online.

[ExtremeP7]

Remember the guy that spent his life savings trying to win an XBox360 at a carnival ball toss? (Interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuklQw4vu3A).

That's us. Our bananas are our virtual avatars (complete with available dread locks). With or without buying gold we're addicted, I mean committed, to the game. We all suffer from the sunk cost fallacy:

"You and a friend just spent $10 to see a movie. About a half hour into the movie, you both realize that it’s “two thumbs down”—a really bad movie. What do you do? List some good reasons for staying until the end of the movie, then list some good reasons for leaving after a half hour.

Those who indicate that the investment of $10 is a good reason for staying demonstrate the sunk cost fallacy. The $10 is gone regardless of what one now decides, so it is actually not relevant to the decision of staying or leaving. Staying means not only enduring a bad movie but missing out on a pleasurable activity that one could be doing instead. Thus, there is a dual cost to staying—seeing a bad movie and missing out on a better activity."

Gree will do what Gree does as long as the money comes in. Until then, we'll keep sinking, keep watching the bad movie, and I'll cross my fingers that the "free" market will eventually work it's magic and the game will plateau into something awesome.

That being said, this crap is getting tiring~

[MerlinBlack]

You've also demonstrated one of the important problems with capitalism. Capitalism assumes rational, self-interested individuals.

....

*snicker*

Remember the guy that spent his life savings trying to win an XBox360 at a carnival ball toss? (Interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuklQw4vu3A).

That's us. Our bananas are our virtual avatars (complete with available dread locks). With or without buying gold we're addicted, I mean committed, to the game. We all suffer from the sunk cost fallacy:

"You and a friend just spent $10 to see a movie. About a half hour into the movie, you both realize that it’s “two thumbs down”—a really bad movie. What do you do? List some good reasons for staying until the end of the movie, then list some good reasons for leaving after a half hour.

Those who indicate that the investment of $10 is a good reason for staying demonstrate the sunk cost fallacy. The $10 is gone regardless of what one now decides, so it is actually not relevant to the decision of staying or leaving. Staying means not only enduring a bad movie but missing out on a pleasurable activity that one could be doing instead. Thus, there is a dual cost to staying—seeing a bad movie and missing out on a better activity."

Gree will do what Gree does as long as the money comes in. Until then, we'll keep sinking, keep watching the bad movie, and I'll cross my fingers that the "free" market will eventually work it's magic and the game will plateau into something awesome.

That being said, this crap is getting tiring~

[Agent Orange]

I have to confess that I don't care any more. The weather up here is nice and before long I'll be looking at snow and ice again so screw this! I'm heading outside to play with my summer toys and BBQ!

[Agent Orange]

Remember the guy that spent his life savings trying to win an XBox360 at a carnival ball toss? (Interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuklQw4vu3A).

That's us. Our bananas are our virtual avatars (complete with available dread locks). With or without buying gold we're addicted, I mean committed, to the game. We all suffer from the sunk cost fallacy:

"You and a friend just spent $10 to see a movie. About a half hour into the movie, you both realize that it’s “two thumbs down”—a really bad movie. What do you do? List some good reasons for staying until the end of the movie, then list some good reasons for leaving after a half hour.

Those who indicate that the investment of $10 is a good reason for staying demonstrate the sunk cost fallacy. The $10 is gone regardless of what one now decides, so it is actually not relevant to the decision of staying or leaving. Staying means not only enduring a bad movie but missing out on a pleasurable activity that one could be doing instead. Thus, there is a dual cost to staying—seeing a bad movie and missing out on a better activity."

Gree will do what Gree does as long as the money comes in. Until then, we'll keep sinking, keep watching the bad movie, and I'll cross my fingers that the "free" market will eventually work it's magic and the game will plateau into something awesome.

That being said, this crap is getting tiring~

Hmm is that a hairy banana or are you just happy to see me?

Buddy needs to think things through, hmmm perhaps using the term think is not appropriate in this case but I agree we are looking at similar situations where both schemes are playing on many folks need to win.....

[Dkaell]

Has any video game ever been sustainable, in the grand scheme of things?

World of Warcraft