An Arena feature I'd like to see

[JonS52]

I'd like to be able to preview the opponents lineup before committing to combat, i.e. see what armors all the members of the opponents team are wearing.

[maple1736]

Not really possible for them to take that move as it will increase the chance of a 8/8 and reduce gem spending! Not in GREE's business strategy though it is something everyone would like to see...

[Slevinn]

I'd like to be able to preview the opponents lineup before committing to combat, i.e. see what armors all the members of the opponents team are wearing.

Sorry to say but that idea is ridiculous. How easy would it be then to win battles.

[JonS52]

True, but part of what triggers my desire is the fact that combat is already biased in favor of the opponent. The opponent always strikes first, so all things being equal (same armors, same level, same order) the opponent will always win. Misses do play a role and they're supposedly random (not that I necessarily believe that :rolleyes:) but all things being equal the opponent will always win. At least being able to preview his lineup will help to level the bias.

[deathexe]

True, but part of what triggers my desire is the fact that combat is already biased in favor of the opponent. The opponent always strikes first, so all things being equal (same armors, same level, same order) the opponent will always win. Misses do play a role and they're supposedly random (not that I necessarily believe that :rolleyes:) but all things being equal the opponent will always win. At least being able to preview his lineup will help to level the bias.

Actually in higher levels, knowing the opponents lineup basically gaurantees a win when you just need to switch your armor around to beat each armor on the opponent. That's why there's more tactics without a preview of your opponents lineup because you have note down your opponents previous lineup, but If he changed his lineup again, you would have to adapt the next fight.

[maple1736]

True, but part of what triggers my desire is the fact that combat is already biased in favor of the opponent. The opponent always strikes first, so all things being equal (same armors, same level, same order) the opponent will always win. Misses do play a role and they're supposedly random (not that I necessarily believe that :rolleyes:) but all things being equal the opponent will always win. At least being able to preview his lineup will help to level the bias.


Not always, you or your opponent will have a chance to miss as you've said and without considering critical hits. It's all down to the chances. But what they can do to make it more fair is to give a coin game or something to decide who hit first before starting the battle!

[deathexe]

Not always, you or your opponent will have a chance to miss as you've said and without considering critical hits. It's all down to the chances. But what they can do to make it more fair is to give a coin game or something to decide who hit first before starting the battle!

Haha I like the coin game idea, would definitely make things more interesting.

[Slevinn]

Arena is now more about guild bonusses. My blackfrost is defeating tons of aegis and bkale that i could never defeat before. If youre guild is domination the element bonusses, you dominate arena fights. It's only fair for people who invest a lot of money in their guilds.

[JonS52]

Actually in higher levels, knowing the opponents lineup basically gaurantees a win when you just need to switch your armor around to beat each armor on the opponent. That's why there's more tactics without a preview of your opponents lineup because you have note down your opponents previous lineup, but If he changed his lineup again, you would have to adapt the next fight.

It would only guarantee a win if your armors were equal, and if your armors were equal then the opponent automatically has the advantage due to getting first hit.

And I don't know about you but there are soooooo many players in this game I just can't keep track of them all, particularly when there are multiple players with the same name. And you can't rely on the achievement title a player uses since they can change that at will. Is this the lvl 41 Jon with all mid lvl 50 armors, or is it the Jon that's lvl 148 with all maxed lvl 70+ armors? Or is it the lvl 108 Jon with a lvl 70+ mid range and two lvl 50+. Assuming I'm lvl 105 with one mid lvl 70+ and two maxed 50+ I will probably beat the 1st, the 2nd will pwn me, and it's a tossup with the 3rd. Knowing the lineup would likely only change the odds in my favor in the third case.

[JonS52]

Arena is now more about guild bonusses. My blackfrost is defeating tons of aegis and bkale that i could never defeat before. If youre guild is domination the element bonusses, you dominate arena fights. It's only fair for people who invest a lot of money in their guilds.

And if bonuses are equal, then the opponent has the advantage due to first hit.

I repeat ALL things being equal the opponent WILL win.

[deathexe]

It would only guarantee a win if your armors were equal, and if your armors were equal then the opponent automatically has the advantage due to getting first hit.

And I don't know about you but there are soooooo many players in this game I just can't keep track of them all, particularly when there are multiple players with the same name. And you can't rely on the achievement title a player uses since they can change that at will. Is this the lvl 41 Jon with all mid lvl 50 armors, or is it the Jon that's lvl 148 with all maxed lvl 70+ armors? Or is it the lvl 108 Jon with a lvl 70+ mid range and two lvl 50+. Assuming I'm lvl 105 with one mid lvl 70+ and two maxed 50+ I will probably beat the 1st, the 2nd will pwn me, and it's a tossup with the 3rd. Knowing the lineup would likely only change the odds in my favor in the third case.

You could win easily as long as you have the elemental advantage. Even when your opponent gets the first hit. Anyways, the example I was giving was when you're 100+ with several maxed 70+ armor. You would usually be meeting the same people in the arena considering that you'll be around the top 100, so noting down the lineups of your opponents aren't that hard.

[JonS52]

You could win easily as long as you have the elemental advantage. Even when your opponent gets the first hit. Anyways, the example I was giving was when you're 100+ with several maxed 70+ armor. You would usually be meeting the same people in the arena considering that you'll be around the top 100, so noting down the lineups of your opponents aren't that hard.

That's true, but since everybody would then have this advantage it would just mean that more people build up more points faster, but I'm not sure that it would change the standings any. It would definitely make the play play more enjoyable for everybody, JMHO. Since it would call for more tactics in setting up your lineup to best your opponents lineup it would enhance gameplay. But the standings wouldn't be affected since everybody has the same advantage.

[Raistmar]

That's true, but since everybody would then have this advantage it would just mean that more people build up more points faster, but I'm not sure that it would change the standings any. It would definitely make the play play more enjoyable for everybody, JMHO. Since it would call for more tactics in setting up your lineup to best your opponents lineup it would enhance gameplay. But the standings wouldn't be affected since everybody has the same advantage.

Planning and strategizing is out of the window once you can see your opponents setup. How hard would it be to setup your team to counter an opponent when you can see his setup. Where's the tactic in that?

[Slevinn]

And if bonuses are equal, then the opponent has the advantage due to first hit.

I repeat ALL things being equal the opponent WILL win.

That is why the game is about a tactical team of three knights, about the bettter armors and about the guild bonus. Don'
t penalize players that are loyal and spending gems on dpc.

[JonS52]

Planning and strategizing is out of the window once you can see your opponents setup. How hard would it be to setup you team to counter an opponent when you can see his setup. Where's the tactic in that?

And how much tactics are involved in going in blind? You can't plan with no information. And I know that some have pointed out that I'm supposed to keep track of opponents and their armors, and maybe some can but I don't seem to be able to. Big armor will always beat little armor, knowing what he's wearing won't do a bit of good if his armor is lvl 50 and yours is lvl 30.

[JonS52]

That is why the game is about a tactical team of three knights, about the bettter armors and about the guild bonus. Don'
t penalize players that are loyal and spending gems on dpc.

How would it penalize? Everybody gets the same play. The better armors will beat the lesser armors, the bonuses will still apply.

[Raistmar]

And how much tactics are involved in going in blind? You can't plan with no information. And I know that some have pointed out that I'm supposed to keep track of opponents and their armors, and maybe some can but I don't seem to be able to. Big armor will always beat little armor, knowing what he's wearing won't do a bit of good if his armor is lvl 50 and yours is lvl 30.

Scout your opponent. Talk to people in your guild, help each other out. That's what planning and strategizing is. You don't have to go in blind. What you want is basically to win every time.

[L C]

How would it penalize? Everybody gets the same play. The better armors will beat the lesser armors, the bonuses will still apply.
Let me just point out that a maxed AA+ (50) will beat a maxed Jian's+ (70) even if Jian's has first hit. This would seem to contradict what you are saying.
My advice, just keep leveling up and improving/maxing your armor. You will improve your odds and performance. Most of us all stumbled through some part of this like you (and when I miss a bunch of time early in the arena, then I stumble through it some more again...mostly due to there being many more unknown opponents with decent to great armor).
Also, the recently nerfed arena points for players level 100+ is making things much more difficult for those of us up here.

[Slevinn]

How would it penalize? Everybody gets the same play. The better armors will beat the lesser armors, the bonuses will still apply.
Level 100 players won't get a chance at 45 points anymore. That is what I meant.

[Grruumm]

... The opponent always strikes first, so all things being equal (same armors, same level, same order) the opponent will always win. ...

but you control the use of your SA, whereas the opponent appears to spam it at will and quite often wastes it on a small amount of hp remaining that could've easily been taken with a regular attack. Opponent striking first is quite fair imho.

[Sir.]

but you control the use of your SA, whereas the opponent appears to spam it at will and quite often wastes it on a small amount of hp remaining that could've easily been taken with a regular attack. Opponent striking first is quite fair imho.

Was waiting for this to be pointed out.

Anyway, the strategy in the arena is forming well-balanced team that can take out most opponents, based on generally used armors and trends. This is enough to get you into the top 100 at least if you play actively. Here is where you start facing the same opponents over and over and where the set ups start variating more, so writing down set ups is starting to make sense. This estimating what of what team would take out the average opponent, yet is balanced enough to stand a chance against different variaties is what makes strategy in the arena vital to get and stay in the high ranks. Giving people the possibility to view their opponents' set up not only entirely removes this strategy, but also makes it possible to pretty much instantly win for people of lvl 100+ with 4-5 or more maxed lvl 70 armors. This having the consequence that getting high ranks in the arena is solely based on the time one invests into making sure no AE goes to waste and the amount of gems spend in extra AE. Or in other words: it would ruin the pvp element of the arena and in that way, in my opinion, the arena as a whole.

[Musketeer]

but you control the use of your SA, whereas the opponent appears to spam it at will and quite often wastes it on a small amount of hp remaining that could've easily been taken with a regular attack. Opponent striking first is quite fair imho.

Not quite at will, they use it as soon as it is available, but as you say this is often not the best tactical time to use it. Time and time again I see an opponent use the special hit to take out a knight with almost no health left. First strike for the opponent is the balancer.

[Gabzor89]

Actually, I feel that the strategy comes from CHOOSING your opponents wisely. Admittedly, it does involving tracking, which is not always foolproof when people change their names, but it does help a lot. I've records of the lineups of about 3000 players, though some may be duplicates and inactive.

Armorwise, one can do a little bit of thinking about what recent epic bosses there have been. Those armors will be vastly more popular in the mid-ranges, and if you choose the appropriate armor to counter that, you should be able to rise up easily.

Once you get past the mid-range, like what has been said earlier, you battle the same people over and over again. This makes it easier to keep track of their armors and choose and appropriate setup.

Also consider strategizing by sacrificing a few arena points to lose a few battles in a row, where you will then be matched with weaker players, and then can roll your double down up.

[jmano]

GREE should set up a single elimination tournament (for a special event or something different). People have the
opportunity to sign up for a couple of days; then players battle it out until we have one winner!

[Justice711]

Obviously Jons52 didnt think his suggestion thoroughly. Not a good idea.

[Lcharlie]

I think players that don't have a lot of maxed lvl70 armors to choose from might have this type of concern. As many experienced players have already pointed out, it is about observing trends of the tournament and use a line up that will beat most of them. Once you are in the top 50 then pay attention and swap your armors to defeat the harder opponents. Once you have 10 lvl70 armors maxed to cover all element combinations, you can beat anyone in the arena regardless of the guild bonuses. Final point is that the player profile already reveals one armor, the one their hero wears so that is already incredible intelligence. If you are not already using that info then you are losing out. When I see someone using black k or aegis as the main for example, I already know how to beat them without needing to know the other two armors. How do I know that? That one secret I'm afraid I have to keep within our guild. ;).

[Sunsfan1caw]

When I see someone using black k or aegis as the main for example, I already know how to beat them without needing to know the other two armors. How do I know that? That one secret I'm afraid I have to keep within our guild. ;).

Hmmm, is this a subtle bit of recruitment for your guild? :)

I would be impressed if you were actually able to do this, as the secondary knights' armors and positions still play a large role in the outcome of a battle.

Still, it's intriguing. I might have to apply to your guild just to hear this secret strategy. :)