@ Gree and any moderators that may be watching. Just a Suggestion on Gold and Honor

[TempusDA]

I give credit where credit is due.

To Gree and it's admin would like to thank you for allowing this thread to continue, it is a good sign in my eyes at the very least and it is appreciated.

To match Gree's level of respect for this post and continuing to allow us to voice our concerns on this topic, lets continue to keep this thread constructive as it has been and was intended to be.



Great news we broke 100 lets keep them coming.

Lets try for at least 300 votes.
It will prob take this amount at the very least to give it the weight it needs. We can hope less would be sufficient tho :)

What is it gonna take? :
1) Viewing is not enough.
2) We need votes in the hundreds.
3) We need people leaving replies to help keep this thread on top, drawing more votes and more replies.
4) We need to spread the word let your chat communities guilds and your friends know about this post ask them to come here and vote and reply to the thread voicing their concern, asking Gree to do something and offering solutions if they have any.
5) If you do not have a Funzio account it takes a few minutes to make one and a few minutes to vote and leave a reply.
6) Send in a ticket in game.

We do not want the momentum to die out and fade away, I doubt anyone is going to take this level of effort in the future so if you want something done be a part of the solution, nothing will happen if more people don't step up and take action.

Remember viewing is not enough.

The Time Is Now, The Place Is Here.

Don't let this opportunity slip away it will probably not come again most definitely not by me.



From what I have heard I could be wrong.

But it seems Gems are non hackable and from I heard beacuse Gree tracks gems at the servers.

It is obvious that their are hacks for gold and honor.

Would it be possible to track gold and honor the same way you do for gems making hacks for them obsolete.

Seems a simple solution.




Also provided this suggestion a while back.

Are donation logs kept by the servers for guilds? If so could you not do a search program on donations made in the suspected guilds and suspected hackers that proved to be actual hackers.

Take a tally of all the gold that was donated to a specific guild by a hacker. we will call this Hacked Gold.

Calculate the all Gold that was spent on upgrades the Guild in question has. We will call this Total Gold spent on Upgrades.

Reset all the upgrades to 0.

Subtract Hacked Gold from Total Gold spent.

This will leave the total amount of gold that was put into upgrades legitimately for the guild to then spend on the upgrades that were reset to 0.

This will remove the unfair advantage a guild received from a hacker but at the same time leave the amount of gold that was donated into the guild legitimately to rebuild the reset upgrades as mentioned above.

This seems to be a very fair resolution to me and I think it would be considered fair by people that are in the guilds that previously had hackers in the guild as well as by the guilds that never had hackers that are obviously upset of the unfair advantage.



Ok now walls in the guilds that have had hacker activity they could have a ridiculous amount of level 10 walls built to be fair to everyone and I think this is a small price to pay for not getting disbanded remove all walls from guilds that have had hacker activity in conjunction with action suggested above.

Most guilds have to completely rebuild walls after a war as most legitimate guilds budget how much they spend on walls to make sure they have enough for upgrading the guild bonuses.



Also another suggestion instead of trying to sweep hacker activity under the rug especially if action was taken against a suspected player or guild of hacker activity. Make a section in the forums on reported Hackers have 2 lists one alphabetical by name 1 for Guilds 1 for players. The list should contain name and ID of guild/Player and status of investigation. I suggest via document that can be downloaded by players to throw into a word program with Find Word capability the person could then search for a guild/player ID/name quickly.

Also in the section inform the people on how to properly fill out a support ticket what information you need on the Guild/Player in order for you folks to do an investigation on a guild or player.

The lists would have the ID number and name of Guild or Player depending on which list it is and the result of any investigation that has been done.
1) Pending investigation
2) Found innocent
3) Found Guilty and the action taken

This should satiate the players that Gree is taking action and cares about what the players think.

Also to make sure that Gree does not spend unnecessary action an investigation will only be done if Gree gets at least 60 hacker complaints from different people on a particular guild or player via support tickets.

This will ensure that people are actually filling out support tickets instead of just complaining in the forums and the proper information is sent to the proper place.

Answering this post with what you folks are planning on doing are doing have done regarding Hackers and hacks. Or even better make a sticky on Hacks/ Hackers in the forums and announce what you folks have done will do cannot do and why.



Now it is Obvious by reading the forums that guilds / people have taken some action due to them being upset about the lack of action on hackers or what seems to be lack of action as they are not being informed of what action is being taken. How about forwarding my suggestion to the Board/Tech department to see if what I have suggested is possible to implement.

Lets find a solution before players escalate this anymore and before even more people leave the game.

To the players if you like the post I have made here and like the suggestion then don't just read it post a reply to keep this thread alive or it will just get buried and disappear keeping this thread alive and having a lot of replies will show how serious the players are. IF you have guild members or friends that are tired of hackers that are not in the forums ask them to join the forums and reply to this thread.

Endless complaints smear tactics between guilds and players are not tasteful. Fingers should not be pointed name should not be named based on assumptions. If you have information report it to Gree. Now if players feel like nothing is being done about hackers they should bring this up and they should be allowed to bring this up.

Gree do something about it if you are let people know what you are doing so they don't assume you are doing nothing.

Also included with this thread will be a poll spend the time to vote on it.

Each person will be allowed to vote once and to select multiple options.

Keep the thread alive by replying to the thread. The more replies, views and votes the more it will be taken seriously.
Offer solutions of your own if you have a good one ( constructive and fair preferred, lets not be selfish to our own needs ).

Spread the word to your friends, guilds and in game via walls to come here and vote and reply to this thread.

Recap on other solutions provided by players in this thread.



....Maybe it might be more cost effective and better manageable, if they hire a 3rd party(a company that deals with these problems for companys who can not afford there own department). with all the problems that exist across all games, Someone must have thought of and started a security Company dedicated to combating these problems for others.


I'll throw in a little suggestion. Right now my understanding is that we can't come to a conclusion about how to disband illegitimate guilds. How about this:


1) The guilds that have the 60 members or any other guild in question should have that gold(that was given illegitimately) removed from their vault, walls and upgrades.


2) After this, disband the members that joined the guild last that don't fall in the new guilds member limit.


3) Credit the disbanded members 50% of the gold they may have donated to the guild (unlikely to be a high amount of gold since most these guilds don't require donations, but just to make it a little fair for them)


4) After that they could easily join a new guild and donate the money there.

​

[TempusDA]

Please make a section or sticky thread on Hackers and Hacks.
What is the best way to report a suspected hacker or guild that may have hacker activity, what information is needed on the support ticket.
What kind of action Gree has taken and is working on to solve Hack issues.
People or guilds that had been reported of Hacker activity found guilty and actions taken.
People or guilds that have been found to be clear of hacker activity.

This should help heal the obvious rift between the players and Gree.

I think this is a reasonable request.

I will risk being banned for making this post but I don't think it is one that is worthy of getting banned that is up to the moderators. I for one am tired of all the post on hacks hackers lets take some action on this.

I have put a lot of time into the game creating helpful spreadsheets for the players have been pretty diplomatic on dealing with issues when it came to Gree as well as players. Lets do something about this. I can say for certain if I get banned for saying what needs to be said and in a way that is fair to Gree as well as the players, I will not be playing any more and all my efforts in making the game more enjoyable will stop.

In case I do get banned I will say that well I have had a fun ride and it was a pleasure being in the forums and playing the game with all of you.

I will have a bit more hope that I will not get banned and that Gree finds that what I have said is fair.

I will say also that my voice about the game goes beyond just the forums here I do have some weight not just here but also in chat rooms for Kingdom Age in quite a few chat apps and chat rooms, as well as spreadsheets that are used by well a lot of guilds and a lot of players and I am sure someone will take my spot should I be removed there are quite a few people that are on the verge of quiting that I am sure would take up the torch. This in no way is a threat just a a statement of fact. I can take my voice beyond the forums. I have made a copy of my post and can pass on the torch. This has already gone viral in the Kingdom Age chat communities and well probably on a lot of wall posts in game.

But like I said I have a bit more hope lets show the players that Gree does care what the players think. That people will not be silenced if a post is fair, diplomatic and constructive. My feeling is that I won't be banned cause I feel I have been Fair diplomatic and constructive in all my posts including this one.

Nothing I have said has ever been derogatory towards Gree I have always been fair in my views towards not only players but Gree as well. I am just tired of all the threads on Hackers and would like something to be done so we can fill the forums with more useful things.

I sincerely hope that Gree meets the players of the game half way even if Gree does not put all that I have suggested into action at least being a little more transparent by creating a section or a sticky on the Hacker issue should at least help in some way. Maybe tell us what Gree is doing about the situation and have done so players do not feel like they are being ignored.

[OM-Kingdom Age]

thank you Tempus for voicing out one more time the concerns of all fair players . If nothing is done to this game, we will be leaving this game to the thieves and hackers that Gree is not doing anything about. last time I checked there are so many other games where we can spend our money too .

[Zesder]

This why I voted for you in the moderator poll.

[Dexter Morgan]

Tempus for president!!! Or maybe just moderator

[Dreadknight]

I raised my hands in agreement to this poll.
Something has to be done, before it gets worse and spoilt the entire game for sincere players.

[Sir Ventes]

Great job Tempus!!! I have voted. We can only hope that Gree takes this to heart

[BadNews]

Reset all the upgrades to 0.
How about the guild increase upgrade? Reset to 20, and kick out all 40 legal players from the (HACK) guild?
Those 40 legal players may work hard to donate to the guild. I don't think GREE will do that. This is not a good solution.

BTW, I think GREE already did some upgrade recently to track gold and honors in their servers.
Does anyone find any gold & honor hacker recently?

[Valid or]

I like the idea.
My problem is I don't believe they have the staff left to investigate all the suspected activity that gets reported.
I remember reading recently how they restructured, and people lost jobs..which to me signalled the remaining employs get a larger work load and multule duties they dident have befor, and now they have to prioritize what they can do and when.
Hacking is a big problem in all games, big and small. The company's that combat it with a degree of success, have large departments dedicated to just this one thing, don't think gree has the resources or the manpower to combat the problem effectively.
Maybe it might be more cost effective and better manageable, if they hire a 3rd party(a company that deals with these problems for companys who can not afford there own department). with all the problems that exist across all games, Someone must have thought of and started a security Company dedicated to comating these problems for others.

[TempusDA]

How about the guild increase upgrade? Reset to 20, and kick out all 40 legal players from the (HACK) guild?
Those 40 legal players may work hard to donate to the guild. I don't think GREE will do that. This is not a good solution.

BTW, I think GREE already did some upgrade recently to track gold and honors in their servers.
Does anyone find any gold & honor hacker recently?

If you re read the thread you will see that it was to reset the guild upgrades to zero

tally up the gold it took to purchase those upgrades minus the gold that was found to be hacked.

The guild will then be given back the legitimate gold amount all the amount of gold that was donated without hacked gold the gold that people worked hard to earn.

With the amount of legitimate gold placed back into the guild they can then repurchase upgrades immediately.

This is a very fair solution I am a pretty fair person.

This way guilds that have had hackers join that have reported the hackers to Gree and of the situation will not be dismembered as some people want witch I think is unfair. A whole guild should not be punished for the few especially if that guild had taken the correct actions. This is so guilds that have had hacekrs will only have the amount of gold donated by the hacker/hackers removed and then can repurchase upgrades with the legitimate gold that was donated to the guild.

This is also fair to the guilds that have not had hackers in their guilds that have worked hard to get the upgrades with gold they earned. Things would be put back into balance.

This is a resolution that should satisfy both sides. Not just the guilds upset about guilds that have had hackers. But also the guilds that have had hackers that are no longer members and have also worked hard to keep upgrading the guild since the hacker had left or had been removed.

[BadNews]

If you re read the thread you will see that it was to reset the guild upgrades to zero

tally up the gold it took to purchase those upgrades minus the gold that was found to be hacked.

The guild will then be given back the legitimate gold amount all the amount of gold that was donated without hacked gold the gold that people worked hard to earn.

With the amount of legitimate gold placed back into the guild they can then repurchase upgrades immediately.

This is a very fair solution I am a pretty fair person.


Still will kick out some legal players. It's not fair to those legal players.

And another thing, I don't think there are any innocent top guild, they just don't have hackers right now.

examples:
1. The original founder of DW guild got banned. They unlocked 54 spots during the first war.
2. Winstrol from RK got banned. Nobody would think they have hackers at the beginning of the war.
3. FUN kicked out some hackers after the first war.

All those hackers must donated lots of gold to those guilds, should we reset all those guilds?

Sorry guys, I just tell you the fact. Don't have any offend to those top guilds. I believe most of players from those top guild are legal players.

[TempusDA]

I like the idea.
My problem is I don't believe they have the staff left to investigate all the suspected activity that gets reported.
I remember reading recently how they restructured, and people lost jobs..which to me signalled the remaining employs get a larger work load and multule duties they dident have befor, and now they have to prioritize what they can do and when.
Hacking is a big problem in all games, big and small. The company's that combat it with a degree of success, have large departments dedicated to just this one thing, don't think gree has the resources or the manpower to combat the problem effectively.
Maybe it might be more cost effective and better manageable, if they hire a 3rd party(a company that deals with these problems for companys who can not afford there own department). with all the problems that exist across all games, Someone must have thought of and started a security Company dedicated to comating these problems for others.

That is a very interesting idea.

If you see at the beginning of the thread you will also notice that Gree had taken precaution against Gems being hacked you would think they could do the same for gold and honor points.

I personally like the game and hope that things get done. A large amount of revenue is made from wars. But with ridiculous amounts of level 10 Walls and upgrades that guilds with Hacked gold can purchase it is likely that more and more people wil stop spending money on wars.

Just to give an Idea 60 Level 10 walls cost 125,700,000 Gold and 6,600 Stones. I know this cause I created a wall calculator to find out you are welcome to check my figures. If anyone has gone up against level 10 walls during guild wars you will know just what it takes to destroy one of these imagine facing a guild through out the war every time you battle them they seem to have an endless supply. The guilds that are actually spending time and money in the game having to relentlessly fight a guild with an endless supply of level 10 walls each war will you can see their frustration and they have a right to complain.

The funny thing is I am not in a top 10 guild so this doesn't effect me. But I am tired of the endless complaints so I have put together all the legitimate concerns I have read in the past an made an attempt to be constructive about a solution.
Which will not be good for Gree or the people that want to keep playing.

I am here trying to provide solutions that is both good for Gree and the players,

If Gree has taken action or are taking action then communicating with the players on what has been done and what is being done will be a good first step. For there to be this amount of complaints not just in the forums but within the game and in the guilds after how many wars i could be wrong but I think 4 wars so far is not a good sign.

I am not trying to upset Gree or the players but try to offer some sound resolutions that will be good for Gree and the players.

Thank you for offering yet another solution and I hope other people do the same.

[Hekate]

I'm an active player and an active forum reader, but this is the first time I felt the need to write. Your post Tempus deserves it. Just like you I'm against all hacks, but I also start to get tired of all the complaining. It's time to put an end to it and for Gree to go public with their actions.
Thank you!

[TempusDA]

Still will kick out some legal players. It's not fair to those legal players.

And another thing, I don't think there are any innocent top guild, they just don't have hackers right now.

examples:
1. The original founder of DW guild got banned. They unlocked 54 spots during the first war.
2. Winstrol from RK got banned. Nobody would think they have hackers at the beginning of the war.
3. FUN kicked out some hackers after the first war.

All those hackers must donated lots of gold to those guilds, should we reset all those guilds?

Sorry guys, I just tell you the fact. Don't have any offend to those top guilds. I believe most of players from those top guild are legal players.

I really don't see where you are getting this from my post. Where is it in my post that Gree should remove legal players or dismantle guilds. Honestly are you reading my post. The whole point to my suggestion is to not dismantle a guild to leave it in tack only remove the amount of gold that was donated from Hacked accounts. Have it so the guild can also regain the legitimate gold returned so they can then repurchase upgrades with the legitimate gold.

I don't go making blind accusations about a player or a guild and often speak up when I see people doing it.

I think people with legitimate facts and proof should report it via a ticket. I dont think names should be mentioned in the forums. I think Gree should provide a method in witch they can report back to people, the players and guilds that have either been found guilty via evidence provided by players and the investigation they do on their part or that have been found innocent.

We should not assume we should not go on witch hunts we should provide the facts for Gree to act on and open an investigation, and Gree should on their part do something about it. Communicating with the players and let them know what is being done would be a good step to eliminating a lot of issues in the forums.

So where do you read in anything I have posted that leads to legitimate players being removed you have me a bit confused can you cut and paste what I have written that has lead you to that conclusion. If I find what you say to be true I will be more that happy to correct my wording.

Clarify by stating and repeating anything that i have wrote that leads to a legal player being removed. Are you sure you are reading my post correctly?

[TempusDA]

For the amount of complaining about Hackers done in the forums was really hoping there would be more replies to this thread, here is the chance to speak to take action. Vote and reply.

Or does it fall down to it is just pointing of fingers. I was never really all that concerned about it. Frankly was tired of all the complaining without action. So here I am taking up the cause where is the voice now. Actual presentation of a solution constructive and fair to everyone.

If you were actually concerned about hackers here is a chance to do something or does it just fall to guilds pointing fingers at each other.

For those that have spoken and voted many thanks as well as those yet to reply and vote :)

Honestly anyone not answering this post and yet complain about hackers and guilds that hack, after this post I personally will look at it as people that just want to complain and smear names and really have no interest at all in trying to make a stand against the hack problem we have within the game or any intent to fix anything.

Are we complainers in the forums or are we people of action. We will see who is about the talking and who is about the doing.

I for one hope that the majority of the people that spend time posting in the forums are about trying to resolve issues be constructive in what we say and take action behind what we believe in and be diplomatic and fair. To help make the game better for everyone.

Where are all the people that seemed so adamant about hackers and wanting Gree to do something about it what are we going to to about it.

If we can't even unite to speak in what we believe in how could we ever really complain about Gree.

[steve_r]

I think its more a sense of resignation. The problem grows and trying to get resolution goes nowhere. One more thread is unlikely to tip the balance.

Probably gree wants to avoid a server syncup every time you kill a monster. But surely they could improve things, and certainly they could take action against 60-member guilds. At this point we know and they know that we know.

I think just vote with your money.

[l3lade2]

Ok truthfully when I read this thread earlier I skilled replying and didn't really have much intention to, that is wholeheartedly a reflection on my views of GREE than Tempus or this thread, so having read some of the replies I thought it was right to chip in, as I have been vocal about my feelings on the hacker situation in previous threads.

Short and sweet - I like the idea proposed, there are I think a number of seemingly easy "band aids" that GREE could implement to at the very least limit the recent surge in hackers and hacked guilds, and Tempus' logic is certainly compelling here.

I voted on the poll, probably not hard to guess how I voted, and I 100% think GREE should be acting in this sort of way...I genuinely just feel that I've exhausted myself if complaining now about the situation, and have resigned myself to simply giving up the game when it soon becomes no fun for me, ruined by the hacking and GREE's stubbornness not to take any action. Some wold say that the hackers, and in my opinion GREE have therefore won, they have worn a lot of people like myself down into submission, but I honestly find myself caring less and less as the weeks go on and the wars keep coming thick and fast and every time the influx of hackers becomes more and more obvious....whilst GREE continue to sit back and do nothing (unless you count the odd post from Sirius assuring us that they are in fact doing a lot, which I do not).

Props to you Tempus for the effort, it's great to have something constructive to get behind, we live in hope that one day someone at GREE might feel even the slightest bit as passionate about this situation as we do (or did for some of us).

[BadNews]

I really don't see where you are getting this from my post. Where is it in my post that Gree should remove legal players or dismantle guilds.

Simple logic, some guilds started by some hackers, they increased the guilds to 40 spots, then legal players joined those guilds.
If you take out the hackers gold and upgrade from the guild, where should GREE put those additional 20 legal players? If you can solve this problem, I believe GREE would like to take your suggestion.

I have to say that again.
I think GREE already did some upgrade recently to track gold and honor in their server.
Does anyone find any gold & honor hacker recently?

[VileDoom]

I think its more a sense of resignation. The problem grows and trying to get resolution goes nowhere. One more thread is unlikely to tip the balance.

I think just vote with your money.

This


Does anyone find any gold & honor hacker recently?

Yes I have.

[Ratma2001]

Well what can I say that hasn't already been said time and time again , most KNOW my thoughts on this topic , and the main reason I left the game a few months ago!
I worked hard to keep a step ahead of the wolves and so did many others but was soon over taken in stats by these people! Did I care that they cheated/hacked their way to me YES! I played the game to the BEST of my abilities and played fair, I reported when I came across those that bought this game into disrepute , I PM game Mods and what did I get in return!? Nothing just the same crap e-mail that the case was closed !
Then a weeks/months later I come across the same person with much higher stats and low IPH and no gem units still playing, I'm talking about the constant head banging on wall, I could scream from the mountain top and still not get heard! Still nothing done....why bother ? Even The1nONLY told me this would happen, remove 1 get 5 to replace them.

This thread NEEDS to be heard/read/forwarded to the opprioriate people, it has the basis of being a Pinnicle turning point to save what is left of the game.
I understand there are a lot of players not on this forum and some whom no longer look at this BUT in saying that there is still enough to make an impact on this subject and get Gree to look after the people that look after them.
Do we get paid/reimbursed for the time taken to note all details about certain players NO...why do we do their jobs?
Gree need to step up to the plate and show their members that " Hey we are DOING something" show us some imput like the time and effort all above posts have done.
TempusDA has put a lot of time and effort in this thread to show that he cares and is passionate abou the game not only for himself but for ALL legit players and for that I Thank him! Pat on the back !
If we can have a show of hands on this it would at least help and send a direct message to Gree to say " Hey you have a major problem" here please fix or rectify this situation, remove the Hackers , remove their donations, unfortunate as it is those in these Guilds need to understand the situation from outside their own Guild!
When I was with FKG1 Guild the checks and guidelines are strict, yes they look into your account yes they check your units and major items, they do not want to be associated with these types and for me this is how it should be done, not have a player come in donate Billions/Millions and move on, or say it was someone else .
Please vote and keep this going, as I know more will return to the folds of thegame and bring it back to its former glory

[kruppe]

I completely agree. I have enjoyed this game, initially as a way to indulge my gaming needs on the go, and then because of the interaction of players free or gemmers looking for challenges and social interactions. People have put money into this game expecting the house to play if not fairly, at least predictably, and that free players could still enjoy the game recognising the limitations that style imposed. Hackers destroy that predictability and the sense of fairness that comes from the other choices.
It is always a challenge to technically restrict hackers in this type of environment but the community at least is very aware of the types of hacks that distort stats. Reporting and actioning seem to be the best way of dealing with those cracks.
I have not spent a cent on this game since March and do not intend to spend again until there is a visible sign that hackers are being dealt with quickly and that the bonus system is changed to numbers of gems bought not dollars spent.

[BadNews]

This



Yes I have.

Can you pm his info?

[TempusDA]

Simple logic, some guilds started by some hackers, they increased the guilds to 40 spots, then legal players joined those guilds.
If you take out the hackers gold and upgrade from the guild, where should GREE put those additional 20 legal players? If you can solve this problem, I believe GREE would like to take your suggestion.

I have to say that again.
I think GREE already did some upgrade recently to track gold and honor in their server.
Does anyone find any gold & honor hacker recently?

Well if all the gold placed into a guild was donated on hacked gold and if after all the hacked gold is removed from the equation = no legitimate gold left. Meaning no one had been donating gold to upgrade the guild or making improvement what do you suggest would be fair?

I guess what would be left would be what people put effort into building.

What would you suggest is fair to people that worked hard to building guilds to 32 or 36 members?

Did you not create a list of guild that were 58 to 60 members with not only Guild names but also their Guild codes, may I ask what the purpose of that list was were you trying to say they should be left alone as well or were the implications something else altogether, Never mind you don't have to answer that.

People complaining about other guilds and other players and smearing names which i think is in bad taste what I am saying is lets stop the with witch hunts and come up with the solutions.

I am not talking about who is or isn't innocent but to cereate a fair resolution for everyone of a situation gone bad. You can go back and see if I have ever accused anyone of hacking have you?

If I belonged to a guild that had hacked gold donated I would find this solution more than fair and would be ok with it, why are you not ok with it?

[BadNews]

Well if all the gold placed into a guild was donated on hacked gold and if after all the hacked gold is removed from the equation = no legitimate gold left. Meaning no one had been donating gold to upgrade the guild or making improvement what do you suggest would be fair?


I didn't say all gold come from the one hacker. Say, there is guild got 60 spot opened now, half of gold come from one hacker and half of gold come from other 59 hard working players in that guild. If you take out the half gold comes from the hacker, the guild can only have 40 players, so GREE should kick out 19 legal players from that guild. This is unfair for those 19 players.

I don't have good suggestion on this. I just said, If you cannot figure out a good solution to resolve it, GREE will not take your suggestion.

[Dirt road Joe]

I didn't say all gold come from the one hacker. Say, there is guild got 60 spot opened now, half of gold come from one hacker and half of gold come from other 59 hard working players in that guild. If you take out the half gold comes from the hacker, the guild can only have 40 players, so GREE should kick out 19 legal players from that guild. This is unfair for those 19 players.

I don't have good suggestion on this. I just said, If you cannot figure out a good solution to resolve it, GREE will not take your suggestion.
I'll throw in a little suggestion. Right now my understanding is that we can't come to a conclusion about how to disband illegitimate guilds. How about this:

1) The guilds that have the 60 members or any other guild in question should have that gold(that was given illegitimately) removed from their vault, walls and upgrades.

2) After this, disband the members that joined the guild last that don't fall in the new guilds member limit.

3) Credit the disbanded members 50% of the gold they may have donated to the guild (unlikely to be a high amount of gold since most these guilds don't require donations, but just to make it a little fair for them)

4) After that they could easily join a new guild and donate the money there.

[TempusDA]

I didn't say all gold come from the one hacker. Say, there is guild got 60 spot opened now, half of gold come from one hacker and half of gold come from other 59 hard working players in that guild. If you take out the half gold comes from the hacker, the guild can only have 40 players, so GREE should kick out 19 legal players from that guild. This is unfair for those 19 players.

I don't have good suggestion on this. I just said, If you cannot figure out a good solution to resolve it, GREE will not take your suggestion.

What is fair in life is what people put into it. What would be considered fair would be the spots left would be given by priority to the people that have contributed the most. There are many guilds out there If I was one of the unfortunate one that were in the kick list based on the system presented above and I ended up being on the short list cause I had contributed less than people on the long list. Will I would leave and ask for a future spot if I really enjoyed the guild when they had room. I certainly would not complain that I lost my spot in a guild because Gree removed hacked gold from the guild especially if I contributed less than the other people that remained.

This is a balanced scale and resolution it does not play favorites. I would not offer a resolution that I was not comfortable with on my self.

What makes you think Gree will not take my suggestion? If this generates enough interest and enough voice it could happen.

But if you are so adamant on no action being done against hacked gold and seem to be doing you best to fight what is a pretty fair proposal, why were you posting names of guilds with 58 and 60 members if you don't mind answering that actually.

Like I said If I was in a guild that had hacked gold I would be fine with the decision cause that is the kind of person I am.

I asked you for what you think would be fair in retrospect you offer nothing only that you don't want spots that were bought with hacked gold removed. What does this say?

[phopjon]

Who are the other people that could care less and will you be my friends?

[Ratma2001]

I didn't say all gold come from the one hacker. Say, there is guild got 60 spot opened now, half of gold come from one hacker and half of gold come from other 59 hard working players in that guild. If you take out the half gold comes from the hacker, the guild can only have 40 players, so GREE should kick out 19 legal players from that guild. This is unfair for those 19 players.

I don't have good suggestion on this. I just said, If you cannot figure out a good solution to resolve it, GREE will not take your suggestion.

Unfortunate as it is, this should be done most of us know that there was only maybe 2-3 guilds that could afford high member guilds, they shouldn't have joined, they are chasing the glory with out the output that most of us have done, how many countless raids attacks donations were done by legitimate guilds and there members ?
They are gaining attributes from this being done, they have level 10 walls against other guilds whom only can afford 4-5 level so they score more CP, it's fairness that's required they should have check the guild before they entered!
You make your bed you sleep in it! That's the ways it goes ..I always used to check before hitting others or even if I was invited to a guild ! I checked first , looked at their rewards and choose from their, I don't won't to be associated with hackers/cheaters that why the guild I joined had Strict entry guidelines !
Others should have checked rather than just jump in! Give me give me give me! It's their own fault for choosing that guild , because it's all a CHOICE of whom you join.

[TempusDA]

I'll throw in a little suggestion. Right now my understanding is that we can't come to a conclusion about how to disband illegitimate guilds. How about this:

1) The guilds that have the 60 members or any other guild in question should have that gold(that was given illegitimately) removed from their vault, walls and upgrades.

2) After this, disband the members that joined the guild last that don't fall in the new guilds member limit.

3) Credit the disbanded members 50% of the gold they may have donated to the guild (unlikely to be a high amount of gold since most these guilds don't require donations, but just to make it a little fair for them)

4) After that they could easily join a new guild and donate the money there.

That seems fair as well Dirt Road Joe.

[Aclark]

Any and all hacker guilds should be penalized. The leader should be removed, as should the player or players that donated hacked gold, it's their responsibility to know what's going on. Take all rewards away from guild members and remove their names from winners list. If the remaining want to rebuild honestly then go for it.
That being said the blank accusations being thrown around about different groups should stop. Seems like this has turned into a witch hunt and people are pointing fingers at guild that beat them. If your going to accuse at least have facts to back up the claim. This really is getting out of hand and will continue if Gree doesn't step up soon to resolve this situation.

[BadNews]

Unfortunate as it is, this should be done most of us know that there was only maybe 2-3 guilds that could afford high member guilds

Sorry. there was not only few.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?56285-60-Member-Guilds&p=788574&viewfull=1#post788574


Any and all hacker guilds should be penalized.

penalize all remaining legal players? Not a good idea. As a normal player who didn't visit this forum, how could they avoid to join those (hack) guilds?

[Shinazueli]

Badnews, you seem to be stuck on "the legal players". They are in a guild with hacked gold. The amounts of gold necessary to purchase those upgrades is easily found. It's simple arithmetic and common sense. If they (and their entire guild) haven't been donating a half million gold a day for the last three months, it's hacked. And they know it, or in "legalese": a reasonable person should know it. At this point, there's virtually no chance of ignorance. It's beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So the right thing to do would be to hit them with a hammer so large their mother will feel it. Disband, remove rewards, award to the real victims : real paying players who purchased their gems fairly. And if that takes out half the top ten, in the words of Arthas Menethil: "So be it."

We all know they won't do anything about something that encourages the crackfiend like behavior of the top spenders, but it's a nice thought. Just keep voting with your wallet. A reasonable company should realize what's happening. But they'll just do SOP and pull the plug and restart another game with other unsuspecting gamers. It's what they do, Google it.

[Valid or]

Sorry. there was not only few.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?56285-60-Member-Guilds&p=788574&viewfull=1#post788574



penalize all remaining legal players? Not a good idea. As a normal player who didn't visit this forum, how could they avoid to join those (hack) guilds?

One has to start someplace good or bad dosent matter,Something needs to get done. You can't always avoid everything or even research everything out, at times you just have to live with it and get on with it.
Not meny people might remember the first mmo games like ultima online, but there response to fix issues such as hacks/Exploits,was to apply the fix on a fresh server reset...all play time lost all them hours/days/weeks of grinding skills or mining for ore gone. But most of us was good with action taken as it fixed the larger problems.
If it fixes a larger issue I don't see why the majority of people would disagree with possible fixes to the issues presented hear. And from looking at the early results of this poll I am inclined to think most people would just move on and find a new guild if needed and be glad that a issue affecting everyone is being delt with

[BadNews]

I totally agree ban all hackers, but how to deal with legal players in those guild?

Just think about this scenario, said, tomorrow morning, you find out you are kick out from your guild without any words, because GREE find out someone in your guild hacked some gold and donated to your guild. So GREE reset your guild from current 40 spot to 39. unfortunately, you are the 40th player in your guild. What do you think?

[TempusDA]

Any and all hacker guilds should be penalized. The leader should be removed, as should the player or players that donated hacked gold, it's their responsibility to know what's going on. Take all rewards away from guild members and remove their names from winners list. If the remaining want to rebuild honestly then go for it.
That being said the blank accusations being thrown around about different groups should stop. Seems like this has turned into a witch hunt and people are pointing fingers at guild that beat them. If your going to accuse at least have facts to back up the claim. This really is getting out of hand and will continue if Gree doesn't step up soon to resolve this situation.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with this as well as the statements of Badnews.

What I am providing here is a very fair method of resolution to both sides.

And so ironic that I am taking up this cause as I have never complained about hackers I guess I would be a fair middle person as I can see both sides in an unbiased manner.

No guilds that have had a hacker momentarily and have actually reported the situation to Gree and removed hacker/hackers from their guild should not be penalized for doing the right thing.

But upgrades bought with hacked gold should also not be allowed to continue and should be removed. Bad news I am sorry to tell you this but wrong is wrong no way about it no matter how you slice it it is not right for guilds to keep upgrades that were not purchased with legit gold.

But neither should a guild be completely dismantled if they have taken action against hackers removing them from the guild and do their best to keep hackers out.

1) Gree needs to find away to keep gold and honor protected from hacks as they have done with gems. IF they did it with gems they should be able to do it with gold and honor as well keep the log of gold and honor in the servers to be referenced at the very least keeping an eye on unusual amounts of gold. I imagine Gems were secured because it protects money earned by Gree. Well based on all the talk about gold hacks if Gree does not do something they will start loosing revenue if action is not taken people will start spending less and less on wars. It might not be a big jump as some people were hoping with boycotts mentioned within the game and occasionally in the forums but a gradual decline that will in my prediction increase in rate of decline in revenues and people removing themselves from the game.

Once people spending money and people quitting escalates to a certain point it will be hard to bring the game back we are at a dangerous point here, So my hopes with this thread was first of all stop the problem at it's source for people to speak up and show Gree that they definitely are unhappy and that Gree will see this and take action on it.

This won't happen if people don't speak up. Complaining isn't gonna cut it we are going to have to be organised and approach this in unity and numbers so encourage people to come here to vote and reply.



2) We need to deal with the damage that has been done I am sure Gree has already noticed a decline in revenues. Most guilds will stop or at the very least slow down their spending on wars. It is amazing a lot of people have spent as much as they did which is fine but will they continue to spend that much if they are spending money and effort and have to continually fight guilds that have ridiculous amounts of Level 10 walls or outrages numbers of members lets say 60, or even if some have had purchased all upgrades so early since the guilds have been introduced. I will not attempt to guess which guilds are innocent or guilty. But something needs to be done about guilds that were built on hacked gold whether a small part of it was built with hacked gold or most of it was bought with hacked gold. Removing the hacked gold from the equation seems to be the best resolution I could think of.



This thread is not about threats it is not about pointing fingers this thread is about people coming together and uniting, to voice their concern to Gree about hacked Gold and Honor and what it is doing to the game and its players to hopefully encourage Gree to take action on this problem before it escalates any further. To offer solutions that are fair to everyone not just a few.

Lets work on honorable and fair solutions not from selfish view points that only benefit our own situation, lets offer solutions and resolutions that as best as it can be is fair all around the board.

Could the members of the forums and the players of KA take a breath and see that standing divided does not help a cause and maybe see what is right and come together and by some miracle stand together united to voice for what is obviously wrong and what is obviously right.



If you want Gree to take action on hacks say so not look at the thread hoping someone else will speak up It is going to take a lot of people speaking up.

IF you have a constructive and fair resolution to this problem then speak up and offer it I hope the solutions grow and together we can come up with something Gree can and will act on.

IF you want this movement to go somewhere the place is here the time is now.

IF you dont see enough voice here then go branch out and talk to the people you know that are upset about hacks and want something to be done to come here and add to this voice by replying and voting.

The faster and the larger it grows the more likely something will happen.

I can tell you that if people just complain and are unwilling to stand up and voice what they have to say that in it self is the self defeat-us attitude that gets this world no where. Simply viewing isnt going to help. If you see this as a problem and say nothing thinking nothing will com of this well that is exactly the kind of sentiment that get us no where. IF you have the enrgy to complain you should have the energy to reply and vote.

Leave a reply ask Gree to do something. Maybe even say please. I am always polite with support and I can say that they have been good to me, as result. ( imagine that people are more willing to help when you are polite and and show appreciation when it is due)

Vote and say what you think.

Offer a solution but be honorable and fair in your suggestion.

To Gree this is not meant to be by me anyways and us against Gree thing, this is an attempt to fix a problem that has lingured way to long I have seen way too many friends leaving. I ma hoping the players and the moderators, developers and owners can do something quick before this game falls apart :)

[TempusDA]

I totally agree ban all hackers, but how to deal with legal players in those guild?

Just think about this scenario, said, tomorrow morning, you find out you are kick out from your guild without any words, because GREE find out someone in your guild hacked some gold and donated to your guild. So GREE reset your guild from current 40 spot to 39. unfortunately, you are the 40th player in your guild. What do you think?

Honestly me I would be fine with it, why cause it is the right thing to do and it is fair no way around it. I would not be too worried as well cause I would be quite confident the guild would work hard to get me back in.

IF the amount of drops from the guild were too high to get me back in within a reasonable amount of time. I would be fine with that as well, once again because it is the right thing to do and it is fair and I am confident their are many wonderful guilds that would be more than happy to have me as a member of their guild.

I do my part I pull my weight I am fair and just I would never be worried about finding a good home in a guild I would be proud to be in.

I wouldn't fight so hard against an obviously fair resolution and the fairest one I have seen mentioned or offered there are much worse things that people would prefer to happen as you can see in the forums. I really dont see why you are so hard on a resolution I have so hard on creating to make sure that people that are in hacked guilds get treated fairly. If you happen to be in a hacked guild you are definitely not winning in sympathy points and you may end up with a less desirable action compared what I am trying to offer. Think wisely on what you are saying and how people are interpreting what you are saying.

If you are in the situation mentioned above think twice before going against it any further you are fighting the very person trying to protect people in that situation.

I am looking at it from all angles and trying to resolve this in away that is fair once again all around the board.

This will be last time I reply to your post in this thread. Go back read what has transpired back and forth and see if what you are saying is in fact helping you or going against you.

[Nift the Lean]

I don't have much to add, except that I agree with almost everything Tempus has stated. If someone is in a hacked 60 player guild, then by definition they have gotten a higher ranking in the wars than they should have (more members will get you more points). So, they have already gotten more war reward units than they should have, and gotten farther in LTQ's and boss events due to health and energy regen bonuses, and bought more building upgrades faster and at lower cost than they should have. So, I would say that they have gotten a lot more than they should have already, and are not being penalized much at all by simply getting kicked out of a hacked guild and needing to find a new guild. That seems like a ridiculously small price to pay compared to the hacked rewards that they already had gotten.

[Skyraiders]

I for one am all for your proposed solutions TempusDA. I can think of little to add to this conversation. I myself have complained about hackers on countless occasions. The difference here is there are possible solutions. You have my support and my voice TempusDA.

there is no doubt in my mind that there are people in hacked guilds that have nothing to do with it...the innocent...Maybe? I would argue however that if you join a guild and see 60 members have been unlocked and all bonuses are unlocked......you have to think about what your getting into....seriously!!!! I have two thoughts to this .....one..the people who join a guild with everything unlocked and are legal players are either unaware of how much work and gold is required to purchase these upgrades or just want something handed to them without having to work for it which to me is guilt by association because i think everyone does know at this point what it really takes to get there. Two ..Cheating and or taking the easy path does not always lead to water ...there should be some punishment and since i believe that most people are aware of what it takes to get these upgrades ...legal or not they should be punished for taking advantage of a situation that they should have know was wrong but chose to ignore.

Gree has stated many times that they take hacking seriously. We will see if that statment has any truth to it. I will admit that in this day and age ..with the tech we have that we will never see the end of hackers. If there is no Gem hack and one does not exsist then i dont understand why gold and honor is not protected or can be protected the same way. I still think there are gem hacks but that is a personal opinion and i have no actual proof ...you tube??

With all that said we all will be watching you gree to see how you respond. Make it a good one please! these ideas have merit. We need to tweak them to fit any and all situations but it is a good foundation to start from. I hope you really do take this serious!!

TempusDA....Thank you for not only voicing most of our frustrations in a diplomatic way but also by adding a solution to the problems. I have much respect for what you are trying to do. I have tried myself but with less diplomacy. If you need anything and i can help please do not hesitate to PM me. I will do everything i can to help...and if i cant i will get someone who can!!

THANK YOU!

[TempusDA]

I for one am all for your proposed solutions TempusDA. I can think of little to add to this conversation. I myself have complained about hackers on countless occasions. The difference here is there are possible solutions. You have my support and my voice TempusDA.

there is no doubt in my mind that there are people in hacked guilds that have nothing to do with it...the innocent...Maybe? I would argue however that if you join a guild and see 60 members have been unlocked and all bonuses are unlocked......you have to think about what your getting into....seriously!!!! I have two thoughts to this .....one..the people who join a guild with everything unlocked and are legal players are either unaware of how much work and gold is required to purchase these upgrades or just want something handed to them without having to work for it which to me is guilt by association because i think everyone does know at this point what it really takes to get there. Two ..Cheating and or taking the easy path does not always lead to water ...there should be some punishment and since i believe that most people are aware of what it takes to get these upgrades ...legal or not they should be punished for taking advantage of a situation that they should have know was wrong but chose to ignore.

Gree has stated many times that they take hacking seriously. We will see if that statment has any truth to it. I will admit that in this day and age ..with the tech we have that we will never see the end of hackers. If there is no Gem hack and one does not exsist then i dont understand why gold and honor is not protected or can be protected the same way. I still think there are gem hacks but that is a personal opinion and i have no actual proof ...you tube??

With all that said we all will be watching you gree to see how you respond. Make it a good one please! these ideas have merit. We need to tweak them to fit any and all situations but it is a good foundation to start from. I hope you really do take this serious!!

TempusDA....Thank you for not only voicing most of our frustrations in a diplomatic way but also by adding a solution to the problems. I have much respect for what you are trying to do. I have tried myself but with less diplomacy. If you need anything and i can help please do not hesitate to PM me. I will do everything i can to help...and if i cant i will get someone who can!!

THANK YOU!

Thank You Skyraiders.

The best way to help I think would be to spread the word and get people here to reply to the post and vote. Replying helps keep the post alive. It's gonna take a large amount of people voting at the very least.

[dizzle]

I am sorry but I have to disagree with this as well as the statements of Badnews.

What I am providing here is a very fair method of resolution to both sides.

And so ironic that I am taking up this cause as I have never complained about hackers I guess I would be a fair middle person as I can see both sides in an unbiased manner.

No guilds that have had a hacker momentarily and have actually reported the situation to Gree and removed hacker/hackers from their guild should not be penalized for doing the right thing.

But upgrades bought with hacked gold should also not be allowed to continue and should be removed. Bad news I am sorry to tell you this but wrong is wrong no way about it no matter how you slice it it is not right for guilds to keep upgrades that were not purchased with legit gold.

But neither should a guild be completely dismantled if they have taken action against hackers removing them from the guild and do their best to keep hackers out.

1) Gree needs to find away to keep gold and honor protected from hacks as they have done with gems. IF they did it with gems they should be able to do it with gold and honor as well keep the log of gold and honor in the servers to be referenced at the very least keeping an eye on unusual amounts of gold. I imagine Gems were secured because it protects money earned by Gree. Well based on all the talk about gold hacks if Gree does not do something they will start loosing revenue if action is not taken people will start spending less and less on wars. It might not be a big jump as some people were hoping with boycotts mentioned within the game and occasionally in the forums but a gradual decline that will in my prediction increase in rate of decline in revenues and people removing themselves from the game.

Once people spending money and people quitting escalates to a certain point it will be hard to bring the game back we are at a dangerous point here, So my hopes with this thread was first of all stop the problem at it's source for people to speak up and show Gree that they definitely are unhappy and that Gree will see this and take action on it.

This won't happen if people don't speak up. Complaining isn't gonna cut it we are going to have to be organised and approach this in unity and numbers so encourage people to come here to vote and reply.



2) We need to deal with the damage that has been done I am sure Gree has already noticed a decline in revenues. Most guilds will stop or at the very least slow down their spending on wars. It is amazing a lot of people have spent as much as they did which is fine but will they continue to spend that much if they are spending money and effort and have to continually fight guilds that have ridiculous amounts of Level 10 walls or outrages numbers of members lets say 60, or even if some have had purchased all upgrades so early since the guilds have been introduced. I will not attempt to guess which guilds are innocent or guilty. But something needs to be done about guilds that were built on hacked gold whether a small part of it was built with hacked gold or most of it was bought with hacked gold. Removing the hacked gold from the equation seems to be the best resolution I could think of.



This thread is not about threats it is not about pointing fingers this thread is about people coming together and uniting, to voice their concern to Gree about hacked Gold and Honor and what it is doing to the game and its players to hopefully encourage Gree to take action on this problem before it escalates any further. To offer solutions that are fair to everyone not just a few.

Lets work on honorable and fair solutions not from selfish view points that only benefit our own situation, lets offer solutions and resolutions that as best as it can be is fair all around the board.

Could the members of the forums and the players of KA take a breath and see that standing divided does not help a cause and maybe see what is right and come together and by some miracle stand together united to voice for what is obviously wrong and what is obviously right.



If you want Gree to take action on hacks say so not look at the thread hoping someone else will speak up It is going to take a lot of people speaking up.

IF you have a constructive and fair resolution to this problem then speak up and offer it I hope the solutions grow and together we can come up with something Gree can and will act on.

IF you want this movement to go somewhere the place is here the time is now.

IF you dont see enough voice here then go branch out and talk to the people you know that are upset about hacks and want something to be done to come here and add to this voice by replying and voting.

The faster and the larger it grows the more likely something will happen.

I can tell you that if people just complain and are unwilling to stand up and voice what they have to say that in it self is the self defeat-us attitude that gets this world no where. Simply viewing isnt going to help. If you see this as a problem and say nothing thinking nothing will com of this well that is exactly the kind of sentiment that get us no where. IF you have the enrgy to complain you should have the energy to reply and vote.

Leave a reply ask Gree to do something. Maybe even say please. I am always polite with support and I can say that they have been good to me, as result. ( imagine that people are more willing to help when you are polite and and show appreciation when it is due)

Vote and say what you think.

Offer a solution but be honorable and fair in your suggestion.

To Gree this is not meant to be by me anyways and us against Gree thing, this is an attempt to fix a problem that has lingured way to long I have seen way too many friends leaving. I ma hoping the players and the moderators, developers and owners can do something quick before this game falls apart :)

Could not have said it better. I agree with all proposed solutions.

[Severoth]

Voted. I really hope Gree read this, some great ideas here.

[Gmoney24]

Voted as well. Let's hope this is on Gree's radar.

[Ratma2001]

I personally would like to see this game get back to the CORE ROOTS of its origins !
Stratergy need to be bought back into the equations not the Blazay approuch throw money and get stronger!
I would like (Wish) all hacker guilds be removed and disbanded , all other non hackers/cheaters from these guild moved to other guilds or start a new one, the hacking must stop if Gree wants to keep its main stable players and give back the game we all started playing and felt WE BELONGED to it!
this matter is utmost of importance in bringing the game back from the brink of self destruction.
with careful planning and player input Gree has the basis to ensure our most endearing posters can be heard with due dilligance and open minded to requests to rectify these issues.
Please Gree its time that as a Company you stepped up to the plate and listen to our calls for help to keep this game as a game and not a hackers haven !

[Zenobia]

I voted yesterday but wanted to come back and post that I really appreciate this thread. For the even-handedness of the approach, the solutions proposed, and the discussions it is bringing about.

I want to add that anyone who is in a guild and taking advantage of bonuses that are there because of hackers, though you are not guilty of hacking, that does not mean you should get something for nothing. The bonuses and walls bought with gold from hacker players (every dime contributed by a hacker) should be revoked. Period. Your gold would still be there, contributing to whatever bonuses can be bought with the legit gold left after the hackers' gold is taken away. You would not be losing something you earned. You'd just no longer be getting something for nothing. If you think that's unfair, that is a very warped and spoiled perspective.

[King Ben]

Voted as well. Thanks for the work and discussion.

[TempusDA]

Would like to take the time to thank the people that have already voted and left replies to this cause. If you have a great Idea for a solution keep them coming there have been some good ideas added so far.

We have about 88 votes so far but it is a far cry from what we need, lets try to shoot for at least 300, in fact lets shoot for more than 300.

United we will succeed, where divided, we have failed before.

If you have read this but haven't voted or replied this would be a good time to do so.

This has been touched on before but never in an organized and constructive and fair manner. This is not a slam on Gree post but rather a post to show our concerns and maybe provide some solutions that may end up being something Gree has not thought of and can utilize to help recover what has been lost in the game.

Lets keep this constructive diplomatic and fair and hopefully this will heal a lot of old wounds and maybe just maybe lead to a better relationship between Gree and it's customers to help make the Game better for the players and still allow Gree to generate the profit it needs to justify keeping the game alive.

Just complaining and having sentiments that nothing will ever happen will lead to nothing happening.

People are coming together united in a cause. This is not just good exercise for helping out this game but hopefully people will take this example to where it is really needed, the world. Every person that adds a voice to a cause is one voice closer to a resolution.

So many have lost hope with the brain washing in many societies of the world that everything is hopeless that nothing will ever be done, it is only true if people fall prey to this sentiment. Things are hopeless only if people loose hope. Things will never happen when people choose to do nothing.

It is time to hope and do. Think of this as an exercise that will help you grow as a person and maybe strengthen your resolve to apply to real issues we face outside of this game as well.

Let's believe we can make a difference. Let's never give up hope and always believe we can make a difference. Should we ever fail we can take what we learn from the experience and get back up to try again.

I hope there are a lot more people that believe this, that you believe.

[Sydonia]

Unfortunate as it is, this should be done most of us know that there was only maybe 2-3 guilds that could afford high member guilds, they shouldn't have joined, they are chasing the glory with out the output that most of us have done, how many countless raids attacks donations were done by legitimate guilds and there members ?
They are gaining attributes from this being done, they have level 10 walls against other guilds whom only can afford 4-5 level so they score more CP, it's fairness that's required they should have check the guild before they entered!
You make your bed you sleep in it! That's the ways it goes ..I always used to check before hitting others or even if I was invited to a guild ! I checked first , looked at their rewards and choose from their, I don't won't to be associated with hackers/cheaters that why the guild I joined had Strict entry guidelines !
Others should have checked rather than just jump in! Give me give me give me! It's their own fault for choosing that guild , because it's all a CHOICE of whom you join.

Totally agree !
Players that join these guilds fall into two categories - those who know or highly suspect that the benefits were the results of cheating and those players who are too stupid and/or ignorant to recognize it.
Compensating the first group for their legit donations doesn't exactly send the right message. Compensating the other group... why is it that stupidity and ignorance always has to be rewarded ?
The easy solution is too disband the guild ! The players are free to join legit guilds and thereby getting the bonuses from these guilds - this will compensate whatever gold they "lost" and they get to keep whatever they won (I suspect removing such prizes/benefits would be too time consuming)

[ezinap]

Voted.
Gree needs to do something about hackers.
Better stated: Gree needs to do something about players with a game status that could only be achieved in illegal ways.

Gree doesn't have to prove the hack being made; they just should maintain a fair game.

And if you want to know why there are so few votes?
Too many words; way too many words in this thread.

[Pophai]

Even though I have to admit I did not read it all I want to say thanks for your effort and of course I´ve voted.

[TempusDA]

Voted.
Gree needs to do something about hackers.
Better stated: Gree needs to do something about players with a game status that could only be achieved in illegal ways.

Gree doesn't have to prove the hack being made; they just should maintain a fair game.

And if you want to know why there are so few votes?
Too many words; way too many words in this thread.

Believe it or not it was a lot shorter before with less results it picked up as I added things to give it momentum but your right a bit too lengthy. Shortened it up a bit here and there will try to fine tune it as I have time.

Thanks for the feed back :)

Not always as eloquent with words as my intent but I do put in effort to improve when I can.

[Person]

My vote's in.

Gree will only do something against gem hackers, as those are very few and the only ones costing them money. Why divert resources to remove something that is making you money? Most heavy spenders are addicted enough to keep spending anyways. My advice would be to just enjoy the game for free until Gree does something against gold and honor hackers, they can't afford to lose too many paying customers.

[TempusDA]

Great news we have hit 100 votes.

Would like to thank all the people that have voted, replied and lent their thoughts on the subject. We have manged to keep this thread on the front page since it was started let's keep it there.

Lets keep the momentum going. :)

I ask that all the Guru's and long time players use your level of influence and charisma to spread the word among your friends and peers to lend support to a worthy cause.

Would also like to thank Gree and it's admin for allowing this thread to stay open, in my eyes at the least this says a lot and it is appreciated.

[Mr T Perfect]

Hackers only spoil the game for themselves - there is no honour in being no.1 if you have to cheat your way there.

If a hacker does you injustice - then retailiate.

If not - lets leave it to gree to sort out their house. at the end of the day this is a revenue generating tool. Its thier tool and if it effects their revenue - they will sort it eventually.

Oh and i have voted too.

[ZEEZY]

How do you get a legit answer back from Gree. The ATX Crew's leader was falsely accused of cheating/hacking & banned from CC prior to the start of the last war. Our crew was left high & dry because of this; since he has all the control over syndicate issues + he's the defense leader. Repeated requests to GREE for answers get us nothing, but the auto reply BS that says nothing. Our leader was falsely accused by another who also accused several other players of the same thing. THIS PLAYER left menacing comments on our walls which apparently was done in an attempt to break up our crew & lure our players to his syndicate. The other issue here is if our leader's account has been banned, then it should be off limits to rivals which it is not,because we have been tracking his stats & inventory. Our crew stands behind our leader 100% & do NOT believe the falsehoods spread by this other player. We are all suffering because Gree refuses to answer our help requests & seems not to care about the unfairness of this entire situation. How can 1 player who seems to suffer from player envy, be able to cause this kind of havoc for so many? Why can't we get a legit answer from Gree? What can we do?Help please!!!

[TempusDA]

ZEEZY,

I feel for your situation and there is a much better thread which I started that you could post in, here.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?58304-Witch-hunts-speculations-and-assumptions.-Whats-the-point

Much better suited for your cause.

I sent you a PM as well explaining why, I ask that you please delete your post on this thread and move it to the one I mentioned.

Thank you for your understanding.

I will delete this post after you delete yours .

If you don't see ZEEZY's thread before this disregard as this will be deleted shortly after.

[Voxker]

Starting to think Gree doesnt give a damn about the hackers...

the units that you can buy are completely useless now that they spamm mass amounts of events.

[Loreal]

Over a month ago I sent a ticket to Gree about gold pieces getting subtracted when protecting them in my vault or when moving to another area or just at random? intervals. The only answer I have received until now was a reply in which they apologized for taking long to answer and to ask if I am still experiencing the same problem. I replied that I am. No answer to that.I've decided not to spend money on the game anymore until after this issue has been fixed. By now I have more or less given up hope that it will be fixed, as apparently many people sent in complaints and received no answer. It's a pity because I used to love this game, but now I'm considering to quit it. Getting promised a certain amount of gold pieces and only getting part of it destroys my pleasure in gaming. I'm not sure if it's a hack or not but it seems to me that if Gree wants to give less gold pieces for defeating a certain monster they only need to change the monster description.

[Almost There]

Sounds like a pretty complicated issue with innocent players involved who have no idea of the situation, maybe even new to the game and don't know how everything works yet and only want to have fun playing the game. I would like to propose a solution I think is both simple and beneficial to all. Level the playing field by maxing out all guilds to 60 and max out all guild bonuses (or remove all guilds bonuses besides guild size of 60). Then, after the gold hacking is fixed, add in new bonus upgrades such as 5% infantry attack, etc that all guilds can work on. This would basically reset the playing field for all AND benefit gree by the increased competition for cp points with all guilds at 60 members. This is essentially eliminating guild size as a guild bonus upgrade and leveling the playing field by either removing all other current guild bonus upgrades OR maxing out all CURRENT guild upgrades and then adding new ones.



If you re read the thread you will see that it was to reset the guild upgrades to zero

tally up the gold it took to purchase those upgrades minus the gold that was found to be hacked.

The guild will then be given back the legitimate gold amount all the amount of gold that was donated without hacked gold the gold that people worked hard to earn.

With the amount of legitimate gold placed back into the guild they can then repurchase upgrades immediately.

This is a very fair solution I am a pretty fair person.

This way guilds that have had hackers join that have reported the hackers to Gree and of the situation will not be dismembered as some people want witch I think is unfair. A whole guild should not be punished for the few especially if that guild had taken the correct actions. This is so guilds that have had hacekrs will only have the amount of gold donated by the hacker/hackers removed and then can repurchase upgrades with the legitimate gold that was donated to the guild.

This is also fair to the guilds that have not had hackers in their guilds that have worked hard to get the upgrades with gold they earned. Things would be put back into balance.

This is a resolution that should satisfy both sides. Not just the guilds upset about guilds that have had hackers. But also the guilds that have had hackers that are no longer members and have also worked hard to keep upgrading the guild since the hacker had left or had been removed.

[TempusDA]

Thanks to all the people that have replied voted and supported this thread.

Keep the replies and votes coming.

136 so far.

[jonny0284]

Thanks to all the people that have replied voted and supported this thread.

Keep the replies and votes coming.

136 so far.

It's a legit concern/poll. :) So, yes folks, keep the votes rolling.

[Viscereality]

Great idea.... I'm baffled that gems, gold and honor weren't server side in the first place. :confused:

And even if tracking guild gold donations and such is only implementable on a go-forward basis, it would be a good move to curb future abuses.

Tracking honor should be super simple, as pvping must require server pings anyway.

Tracking gold from quests may be trickier if some of those rewards are entirely resolved device side. But if you require a server ping every third, or even fifth quest, and the communication tells the server what actions resulted in what gold... offenders should immediately generate a red flag for out-of-bounds rewards. You can follow that up with directed investigation and/or hired goons.

By the way, TempusDA... your spreadsheets are the bomb! Totally make this game more enjoyable when I can see goal! GJ +1

[TempusDA]

Great idea.... I'm baffled that gems, gold and honor weren't server side in the first place. :confused:

And even if tracking guild gold donations and such is only implementable on a go-forward basis, it would be a good move to curb future abuses.

Tracking honor should be super simple, as pvping must require server pings anyway.

Tracking gold from quests may be trickier if some of those rewards are entirely resolved device side. But if you require a server ping every third, or even fifth quest, and the communication tells the server what actions resulted in what gold... offenders should immediately generate a red flag for out-of-bounds rewards. You can follow that up with directed investigation and/or hired goons.

By the way, TempusDA... your spreadsheets are the bomb! Totally make this game more enjoyable when I can see goal! GJ +1

Thanks glad you enjoy them and glad they help.

Nice eval and insight to the thread wish i had written it as well as you just did. Wanna edit my thread hehe. :)

Been trying to slowly edit it and trim and make it better.

[TempusDA]

Well I'll take it one more step for myself.

I will take the pledge to not spend another dime, participate in another war, or do another event till Gree makes an announcement to the players on their intention of dealing with the hack issues.

Anyone else that would like to join the protest and make a pledge as well are welcome to do so here.

[DEVASTATOR]

I guess before I can answer this poll I need to know WHAT exactly gree has/is doing about hacked guilds? There are many 60 member guilds now. And to any of us who are not in 60 member guilds know that it is impossible to have 60 members at this time. I think a good start would be to limit the number of level ten walls any guild can have, let's say ten. Because most non-hacked guilds don't have 60+ level 10 walls as we are saving up for upgrades. 360 mil is not easy or quick to come by. I would also recommend a limit on level 7,8, and 9 walls. Limit them to say 15 each. And only 10 level 10 walls. This will greatly reduce the hacked guilds advantage over other guilds.

[OM-Kingdom Age]

Silencing players like Tempus, who have been putting so much effort to provide constructive feedback to Gree so they can make this game better has proven once for all that GREE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PLAYERS. All they CARE about their money .. So for Gree to change, we should all stop spending on this game till they listen.. Or like others have done just leave this game. But so our energy and time would not have been wasted for nothing, we will keep our legacy to inform any future players who will wanna play not to do it ever. So we will provide our feedback in places where if left the "future players" won't even download that game to start.

[Wicky]

How very sad that a multimillion pound organisation has seen fit to ban Tempus, because he has strong beliefs and voices his opnions. I don't know who the hacker guilds are; I haven't really been playing KA for that long really either, and don't really spend a lot of time on this forum. However, as a fairly light gem user (when looking at the greater picture here) I find the LTQ spreadsheets and the data sheets invaluable. That someone can spend his own time and energy, compiling these sheets for the rest of us to utilise and rely upon, is more than generous. That, on its own, is worthy ogf great thanks.

I understand that hackers to a game, rely upon software and cheat methods to gain an advantage over those who play the game fairly, either as free players, or gem users.

Yet GREE finds it useful and necessary to ban someone who contributes so muchbecuase he uses his mind and voices what a lot of us know isn't right and good.

I aspire to be in a top 25 guild; I don't know if I will ever be good enough, but I will try, without the use of what I feel is wrong activity, by anything other than the way I play now. I try to do the best by my guild and when I join another, this will not change.

I am absolutely astonished and extremely disappointed at the sad loss of this gentleman (i believe Tempus to be a he) and feel also for his guild, who will also suffer, in spite, I'm sure of lining the game owners deep pockets.

How very sad and again, such a great loss.

[Zesder]

Wouldn't it be nice if we had moderators who spent time in the forums and got to know the people who actually contribute to the forum.

Instead we have someone who jumps in once or twice a month and banns anyone who mentions certain words.

[N0etic]

Is this the thread that got Tempus banned? So much for constructive criticism.

[VileDoom]

shhhhh... careful, big brothers listening.

[Sirius]

Folks,

Let's stay on topic and keep the derailing comments to ourselves please.

Thanks!

[TempusDA]

Thank you all for the support and thanks to Gree for reconsidering.

To be fair I will keep from posting til the 27th as was originally intended out of respect for the rules just wanted to come in and say thank you.

I will see you all on the 27th

I cant't tell you how much it meant to me and made my day all the love shown.

[Riley88]

This is more than just about hacked guilds. I think if you want to take the gold from a hacked guild, that anyone who ever took money from a rival who had over vaulted hacked gold, should have their gold confiscated also. This would be fair for everyone but almost impossible.

[Dirt road Joe]

This is more than just about hacked guilds. I think if you want to take the gold from a hacked guild, that anyone who ever took money from a rival who had over vaulted hacked gold, should have their gold confiscated also. This would be fair for everyone but almost impossible.

You almost answered your own statement... Yes, it would be impossible to confiscate all gold that may have been raided from hacked accounts. For that reason it wouldn't be logical to attempt to do so. But Guilds have a clear record of WHO donated and HOW MUCH they donated. So it should be fairly easy to jump in and deduct the hacked amount of gold.

[Seryna]

These are great suggestions. I used to be so addicted to this game but with all the increased hacker activity with the advent of guilds I have lost a lot of interest. I did buy a mountain of gold once but refuse to buy any more gems until something is done about hackers. It is a complete waste of money to buy gems to try and get ahead when people can just hack and get the same advantage for free. I hoped this thread raises awareness for this issue and that GREE takes note and finally does something against this problem.

[Lithia]

I voted for "I could care less about hackers I just play and don't care what other people do"

Because i personally "could care less about hackers I just play and don't care what other people do." I have played many many online games across multiple platforms and in pretty much all instances people cheat... As a result I have grown a thick skin when it comes to caring about it anymore and have come the realisation that there will always be people who push the boundaries.

I can either get worked up about it, or simply play the game for the enjoyment i get, and when the enjoyment is no longer there I simply find a different game.

I commend those of you that want to effect change, but be mindful and careful that it does not consume you and you forget why you played the game in the first place.

[MaGiX]

I would like to issue a complaint in order to prove who has more blame hackers or Gree.
The guild 640927548 (Pirates United, if they do not even hide in the name ...) has players like Marcellinus has earned over 200k attack in two weeks (from 450 to 650) or Chalin players with level 87 and more attack 700, etc etc ...
I know this because I spent a few days on your guild and could see it in person. I can provide screenshots so that you have clear evidence. What's more, I can send you GroupMe conversations where the public makes their traps and brags about it.
This is just the tip of the iceberg and all players who play every day we find a hacker easily with a routine visit.
I trust you to respond to this message because otherwise be evident once again that you have no interest in working legally.

PS: If it bothers you that the publication of data and testing concrete players because you're party involved!

Let me get this straight...

You are saying, that if a player gains 200K in 2 weeks, that player must be a hacker?!?

Gees, I thought I among many others in top 50 teams was just good at doing this game, and having fun with it, but I guess that I too am a hacker... Hardly know how to turn on/off my ipad, or even change configurations in it, but somehow I figured out how to hack this fun game...

I thought it was the gems that I spend on the LTQ's that gave me my stats boost, or the huge inflation of unit strenght/bonuses that Gree have made since guildwars began that gave me the boost, but now it turns out that I too am a hacker...

Well, better send yet another ticket to Gree, telling them the hard truth, that I too am among the players that I have reported so far... Shame on me!!! ;)

[MaGiX]

I got a mini, level 58, stats is near 300K. In case you don't know, there have before this war, been a guild quest where all the units payed out to the guild, was applied to the new members that also applied for that guild, got those prizes too. That is how I helped my mini go far higher than he was before, and many did like me.

If it is correct that you got proof of this player being a hacker, then send that info to Gree using the ingame mailing option, and don't start claiming that all that gains 200K in 2 weeks must be hackers.

We got members in our top 25 guild, that is under level 100, but better stats than the ones you claim this member have, they just know when to hit it, and when to stand back, it is really simple math. If you don't gain at least XX K stats for every level you gain, don't do it!

There is spreadsheets on all LTQ's that have been done, and as soon as a new emerges, a new is made up, and from there it is simple to calculate how many XP you are going to gain, and how much you get to show for it.

If you are correct in your assumptions, then Gree will remove this POS like the rest, but stop your wild allegations solely based on how much a member have gained in stats in a given time period, when it can be done by knowledge of this game.

[Person]

well over the last war weekend my def jumped up 300k and my attack about 180k, so 300k in 2 weeks isnt that much.