View Full Version : New Fight Formula
Roy-DeMeo
06-04-2013, 03:12 PM
Did anyone else notice that in battle yesterday they seemed to be losing to players that they would not normally lose to? This always used to happen occasionally, but it was very regular for most of the battle weekend. Most of my teammates had the same thing occur. I am wondering if Gree has changed the formula for fights.
Any feeback would be appreciated.
Gree can't properly send back boost bonuses factored in. You'd think when it checks if ATK > DEF and then sends back the ATK and DEF it wouldn't be hard to use the same numbers...but apparently it is.
What they're using to determine win/loss is one calculation - and then, presumably to save processing, they have a completely different algorithm figure out a different defensive stat to send back to you. #smugcoding
alanlod
06-05-2013, 09:50 AM
Most likely has it never been announced the algorithm or anything suppose don't want to give away mechanics
Ramshutu
06-05-2013, 10:46 AM
The fight algorithm appears to be worked out as follows:
1.) Your atk + boosts + skill points
2.) their defense + boosts + skill points + a random factor from 0 -n% of defense
3.) The greater of those two wins the fight
The two changes that could have been made are a change to % of their def that is added on as a random component, or it could be that the random %age was based on defense before boosts and is now worked out as %age of def after boosts.
They show base D excluding random componeny mainly because they did (iirc) show fluctuation D but people complained.
It happened to me regularly!
I would lose to higher lvl players who had a defense of 20K less than my attack. They'd have less mafia members, have less weapons and (obviously) less defense. The only thing that was greater was the lvl their character was at.
Does level have anything to do with the random factor?
Additionally, I've noticed during battles, if the player is >100 lvls (compared to the lvl my player is at) with a defense of 40k less than my attack, one in four attacks will result in IP of <200. Same scenario, but with a defense of 20K less than my attack - one in four attacks will result in me LOSING.
can ANYONE explain wtf is up with that nonsense??!
SpeakTheTruth
06-05-2013, 11:06 AM
the truth is coming
They show base D excluding random componeny mainly because they did (iirc) show fluctuation D but people complained.I think that was only in MW. People liked seeing what the actual DEF was coming out to every time....so like everything else players actually like - they "fixed" it.
Edit: ok that's unfair. They showed the actual (base + random) without the boost, but since it was wrong (because they didn't show the boosts) they reverted to showing just the base (without boosts or random). Why they didn't just add the boosts...
Legen...dary
06-05-2013, 12:50 PM
Having 3 accounts to play with during the war, I did notice that when fighting someone of a MUCH higher level, even though the percentage of difference in stats was the same, the low level account had a much higher loss ratio than the more equal level account. Example to show what I mean... random numbers just to explain. (lvl38 attacking a lvl100 with defense stat 20% lower that the level38's atk = 50% wins)(lvl122 fighting lvl 100 with the same % stat difference = 75% wins)
Level does seem to have some affect on battle attacks... we don't normally see this because our rivals list is built of the players near the same level as us.
I realized this in PH and I did my best to test this over Chinatown and Docks. No I don't have screenshots.
Level does seem to have some affect on battle attacks... we don't normally see this because our rivals list is built of the players near the same level as us.I think that may be a misinterpretation of what's happening. The result screen may be showing you the opposing players stats with your boosts factored in, rather than their boosts (which I know MW was doing for a period). So if the accounts have different boosts the % difference you'd lose to would be different for each of your accounts and each account you're attacking.
Legen...dary
06-05-2013, 01:11 PM
There is no way to be sure until they show us the formula... just something I noticed.
Yes, I tried to take into account syndicate bonuses and the disparity of them. Back in my "Why are the stats showing up different from every device and every different profile viewing method!" posts a month or three ago I noticed that my bonuses were showing on other people's stats... I've been checking on that among my syndicate and among my different devices. They have been evening out IPH and stats lately (all the "why did my income drop!" threads) and that issue didn't seem to be the case for the last couple wars.
Just throwing out a theory that kinda fit the data I had available. ...not claiming any higher knowledge. :)
i am dying for resolution to this issue, or at least statistical evidence of why this is occurring!
nopenopenope
06-05-2013, 01:18 PM
i am dying for resolution to this issue, or at least statistical evidence of why this is occurring!
Looks like you'll be dead soon enough then.
lolz. you're probably right
Randolph
06-05-2013, 03:07 PM
I know that i can rob people easily with up to 35 k more def than my attack. But when i attack them i lose all the time so there is a different measure in that for sure .
remingtonsteele
06-05-2013, 05:32 PM
It have noticed a problem with this. My attack is 255k, I lost to a guy with 47K def. Yes 208,000 lower. And not just once. I lost 25-30 battles over the weekend against people with stats 25k-200+k lower than mine.
It is a major problem when you are spending gold on these battles an losing to people with 200k less defense.
It have noticed a problem with this. My attack is 255k, I lost to a guy with 47K def. Yes 208,000 lower. And not just once. I lost 25-30 battles over the weekend against people with stats 25k-200+k lower than mine.
It is a major problem when you are spending gold on these battles an losing to people with 200k less defense.
i agree with you 100%. it is complete bull**** when you're spending money on the game, and losing for no good reason!!! someone needs to resolve this issue dammit!
BigMoney
06-05-2013, 09:23 PM
It have noticed a problem with this. My attack is 255k, I lost to a guy with 47K def. Yes 208,000 lower. And not just once. I lost 25-30 battles over the weekend against people with stats 25k-200+k lower than mine.
It is a major problem when you are spending gold on these battles an losing to people with 200k less defense.
I don't believe this. You could lose a robbery to someone with that kind of defense because of the robbery glitch, but not an attack. Either you misread his stats (470k) or you're a cheater and your attack has been nerfed.
I don't believe this. You could lose a robbery to someone with that kind of defense because of the robbery glitch, but not an attack. Either you misread his stats (470k) or you're a cheater and your attack has been nerfed.
i'm definitely not a cheater (i dont even have stats to remotely be considered a cheater), but i did lose over 20 battles to players that had a defense of 20-25K lower than my attack. Granted, they were lvl 200 players, but still - i had more mafia, more weapons, and (what i thought) a stronger attack.
BigMoney
06-05-2013, 11:02 PM
i'm definitely not a cheater (i dont even have stats to remotely be considered a cheater), but i did lose over 20 battles to players that had a defense of 20-25K lower than my attack. Granted, they were lvl 200 players, but still - i had more mafia, more weapons, and (what i thought) a stronger attack.
20k-25k is hardly a shock at all, but you wrote "25k-200+k". It's not at all uncommon to lose a fight to someone whose defense is 20%-25% less than your attack. 50k attack would never lose to 25k defense, but 250k attack could easily lose to 225k defense.
Legen...dary
06-05-2013, 11:31 PM
every new guy in our syndicate that is on an Android phone or Bluestacks tries posting some recon as 4756 defense and we have to explain to them that it really says 47560 defense. The numbers get cut off. You were NOT losing to someone with 1/5 the defense of your attack.
20k-25k is hardly a shock at all, but you wrote "25k-200+k". It's not at all uncommon to lose a fight to someone whose defense is 20%-25% less than your attack. 50k attack would never lose to 25k defense, but 250k attack could easily lose to 225k defense.
so then based on what you're saying, my 75K attack should never lose to someone who has a 45K defense, correct? because i can assure you that it HAS happened multiple times during the syndicate event, with players who are >100 levels ahead of me.
20k-25k is hardly a shock at all, but you wrote "25k-200+k". It's not at all uncommon to lose a fight to someone whose defense is 20%-25% less than your attack. 50k attack would never lose to 25k defense, but 250k attack could easily lose to 225k defense.
btw I didnt write 25k-200k, you've got me confused with the other guy =)
GravyTrain
06-06-2013, 07:40 AM
That happened a lot on our team as well. Scouts would find a target and then players would only get 3out of 4 wins, when it should have been 4 out of 4 all day long.
Roy-DeMeo
06-06-2013, 01:39 PM
There were times where I lost while using gold and I clearly had no basis for losing. I was starting to think it was a money thing. If you want a certain IP and gree throws a few extra losses at you then you will be more apt to buy more gold to reach that IP level.
There was no reason for multiple players to lose this way in just this last battle. Every other battle has had much more consistency. Maybe a certain modifier was off, or maybe something with their algorhythm, but something was a problem. I've been playing long enough to know when a certain thing is not normal.
I agree with all... something changed. And maybe it has something to do with a players level? I know that it has also happened in KA. Noticeable difference. I used to win all battles in which I had a higher attk vs a lower def.... mostly... maybe 1 of 20 I might lose. But now it's closer to 1 of 8 I lose. I just dont like the fact they changed something... and I do believe something changed. Oh well... war is war and war can be unpredictable.
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