Upgrade the Dockside Mill, build a second one, or wait for the next LTB?

[BigMoney]

I'm currently struggling with this decision. I currently have a Dockside Mill at level 2, and I am just a couple million short for the next upgrade (~$146mil). I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade it (for the item), build a second one (because it's a limited time building, and perhaps I'll need it way later in the game, after Casinos?) or if I should just save my money and wait for the next Limited Time Building. I have an IPH of a little over $1mil, so I believe that if I emptied the bank to upgrade now, I wouldn't have enough to afford a second building before the event ended (although apparently you can still buy the buildings all the way up until the end of the syndicate war?). FWIW, I'm pretty good about collecting my big money buildings, and haven't been successfully robbed in a while.

If you can still purchase the Mill up until the end of the syndicate war, I'd probably be able to raise enough for a second Mill, but then I'd still be stuck with the decision of whether I should purchase it or save my money and wait for the next LTB, which could conceivably start almost immediately after the war ended, at which point I'd be flat broke.

Here's how I'm leaning so far, in order of preference:
1. Save and wait for the next LTB, hoping it's a building closer to the Pagoda than the Dockside Mill
2. Upgrade the Mill to level 3 for the item (682/558 vehicle), save the rest for the LTB
3. Upgrade the Mill to level 3, purchase a second Mill, and hope the next LTB doesn't start too soon after that


Any advice?

[CC Pablo]

****

Based on your Income Per Hour, i would save the money for the next Limited Time Building. This Dockside Mill building sucks. I have one at level 5 and another at level 1, and im not impressed at all with the income i get from them. This type B building sucks. I mainly leveled up my first Dockside Mill to level 5 because of the rewards and because i had money to waste.

Summary: Save your money and wait for the next Limited Time Building.

****

[bald zeemer]

I'd skip the upgrade. 2-3 item is decent, but not phenomenal.

The mill is a surprisingly strong late-game building. It's hard to tell, with LTBs seeming as if they'll come along fortnightly (or maybe, eventually, monthly) but I think depriving yourself of what I believe to be the third strongest building in the game will hurt you long-term.

Having a super-charged economy in the long run will allow you to consistently get to level 10, and the string of strong prizes that go with it.

Personally I've got 2, and I stopped upgrading at 6. I could've gone to 7 but have decided to start NC upgrading, in order to get 2 upgrades in prior to the next cycle, and give me a better shot at hitting 10s in the future.

[BigMoney]

Thanks for your insight. I was thinking that the Dockside Mill would take ~90 days to pay itself off (at which point there surely will have been another LTB), which is why I thought my money might better be saved up.

[Feng1234]

Buy second mill and save the rest for next LTB. Ignore upgrade - The weapon you get isn't worth the long term income you can get from a second mill. From a theoretical perspective, the more income you have, the stronger you become and every building you can purchase contributes to that. If for whatever reason the next LTB is cheap, you will regret missing out on the current one. Of course, if it is expensive, you might also miss out but given the time we got for this one in addition to your good IPH, you will likely save enough for both even if they are expensive next time.

[LuckyLuciano]

AGREED, worst waste of money ever!

[(CCK) Cam]

AGREED, worst waste of money ever!Same here!

[OffensivelyNamedGuy]

Buy the second mill and save for the next LTB. I kind of regret upgrading the first one to 2.

I've been using this time to upgrade my second pagoda to 7... Should leave me with about 200m when the war is over.

What level are you anyway big money? Got all buildings unlocked?

[dudeman]

I think this building was meant to "reward" the players who have built a strong economy. It's only a type B, but those high IPH players don't need it for the income. The expensive upgrades, however, make the items received along the way just a little bit more exclusive (for now, until they get recycled).

Also, having a high level DM in your hood could be seen as sort of a status symbol in a way. Economy veterans and big spenders only need apply. :cool:

In other words, if you can't afford upgrades or a second mill, don't sweat it. It's type b and expensive, so you're not really missing out on a whole lot. Just the items, and if you can't afford upgrades you won't get those anyways.

[Max Power]

AGREED, worst waste of money ever!

What else we gonna spend it on?

[teo]

My IPH is just under a mill, and I have decided to forgo this LE altogether. I am aware of risking not having it for later in the game and that could be seen as detrimental. However, this point is so far out in the future for me that I don't think it is meaningful to worry about - game is going to change many times before that day comes. At 1 mill iph there are so many more worthy upgrades to spend money on. Getting Pagoda's and NC's pushed towards level 10 is going to take me a long time.

It was a tough decision, but I believe LE's are not going to just be a two-shot occurrence and I believe that saving the cash for next round is better. I chose to spend some on a pagoda upgrade and keep the majority. No Mill's for me.

[BigMoney]

Buy the second mill and save for the next LTB. I kind of regret upgrading the first one to 2.

I've been using this time to upgrade my second pagoda to 7... Should leave me with about 200m when the war is over.

What level are you anyway big money? Got all buildings unlocked?

I'm at 126, but it's been rocketing upwards with all these LTQs recently. The DM looks like a more expensive version of the casino, which unlocks at 185, so if I bought a second DM, I probably wouldn't touch it for a long, long time.



I think this building was meant to "reward" the players who have built a strong economy. It's only a type B, but those high IPH players don't need it for the income. The expensive upgrades, however, make the items received along the way just a little bit more exclusive (for now, until they get recycled).

Also, having a high level DM in your hood could be seen as sort of a status symbol in a way. Economy veterans and big spenders only need apply. :cool:

In other words, if you can't afford upgrades or a second mill, don't sweat it. It's type b and expensive, so you're not really missing out on a whole lot. Just the items, and if you can't afford upgrades you won't get those anyways.

Thanks for your input. I now have enough (about $20mil more than enough, actually, after a couple of idiots with really high IPHs/NCs made the mistake of trying to attack me, so I pulled in quite a bit from robbing them both this morning) for either the upgrade ($146mil), a second Mill, or an upgrade of my level 3 NC ($136mil) which I've been meaning to upgrade forever now. With those two idiots now on my newsfeed, I'm hoping I can catch their NCs a few more times before they get pushed off my feed, and so I now feel better about my chances of an upgrade AND another DM.

I think you have a point though, that the value of the building isn't so much in it's contribution to IPH. The more I think about it, the more I realize I don't really a 682/558 item that badly, and that perhaps my money should go towards upgrading a building (like my NCs or Pagodas) that will actually make a difference in my IPH.

So I guess my new preferences are this:
1. Upgrade NC to level 4, purchase 2nd DM (just because)
2. Upgrade DM to level 3, purchase 2nd DM
3. Upgrade NC to level 4, save the rest for the next LTB

So I guess I'm no closer to a decision. I still have a couple days to decide (to upgrade the DM without having to pay gold to finish it), I think.

[mxz]

Thanks for your insight. I was thinking that the Dockside Mill would take ~90 days to pay itself off (at which point there surely will have been another LTB), which is why I thought my money might better be saved up.Don't put weight into payback periods (or ROI, as some people call it) when looking at things like this. 90 days isn't all that much in the overall scheme of things. Unless you plan on quitting before it breaks even - it's not a very strong measure of economic strength.

[BigMoney]

Don't put weight into payback periods (or ROI, as some people call it) when looking at things like this. 90 days isn't all that much in the overall scheme of things. Unless you plan on quitting before it breaks even - it's not a very strong measure of economic strength.

I don't use ROI as a means for deciding whether to upgrade a building (nor do I plan to quit before 90 days) in terms of my economy, I just meant that since there probably will be another LTB within the next 90 days, I would have less money for that next LTB even when accounting for the increase in IPH.

E.g. if it costs $75mil to build, pays out $1.5mil/48hrs, and the next LTB starts in 30 days (if I had to guess, I'd say it's probably even sooner), then I would have:

$75 mil - ($0.75mil/day)(30 days) = $52.5mil less than what I would have had I not spent money for the upgrade, and that $52.5mil could easily be the difference in squeezing out another upgrade in the next LTB.

[mxz]

There goes MXZ again, thinking he has the answer for everything. I've already won the battle of wits against him in the past...isn't that right MXZ?Nice avatar!

[murf]

Don't put weight into payback periods (or ROI, as some people call it) when looking at things like this. 90 days isn't all that much in the overall scheme of things. Unless you plan on quitting before it breaks even - it's not a very strong measure of economic strength.

For the life of me, I still can't understand how ROI isn't a strong measure of economic strength. Like I've said before the ROI inverted is earnings yield. I think this is by far the #1 criteria for deciding an investment's economic strength.

But we've already hashed this out....

[mxz]

I don't use ROI as a means for deciding whether to upgrade a building (nor do I plan to quit before 90 days) in terms of my economy, I just meant that since there probably will be another LTB within the next 90 days, I would have less money for that next LTB even when accounting for the increase in IPH.

E.g. if it costs $75mil to build, pays out $1.5mil/48hrs, and the next LTB starts in 30 days (if I had to guess, I'd say it's probably even sooner), then I would have:

$75 mil - ($0.75mil/day)(30 days) = $52.5mil less than what I would have had I not spent money for the upgrade, and that $52.5mil could easily be the difference in squeezing out another upgrade in the next LTB.I guess I look at it different. To me, $52.5M isn't the difference between finishing the next LTB. Time is the limiting factor and the amount of gold you're willing to spend to get that last upgrade in. I suppose it depends on where in the game you are, but $52M is pretty much chump change to an advanced economy (that's basically a day and a half at $2.5M IPH).
For the life of me, I still can't understand how ROI isn't a strong measure of economic strength. Like I've said before the ROI inverted is earnings yield. I think this is by far the #1 criteria for deciding an investment's economic strength.

But we've already hashed this out....We have. And I disagree with using that as a measure because my goal is to maximize net daily income. I don't care about the efficiency of an upgrade, because it really doesn't matter. Efficiency doesn't put money in your bank. Sure, it helps you save for the next upgrade - but in terms of real in-game cash dollars, it has no direct effect.

[mxz]

PG, B. Keep it PG.

[murf]

We have. And I disagree with using that as a measure because my goal is to maximize net daily income. I don't care about the efficiency of an upgrade, because it really doesn't matter. Efficiency doesn't put money in your bank. Sure, it helps you save for the next upgrade - but in terms of real in-game cash dollars, it has no direct effect.

You still don't understand how I use it... It has nothing to do with saving for the next upgrade...

[mxz]

You still don't understand how I use it... It has nothing to do with saving for the next upgrade...That was just an example, it wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list of ways to look at it.

My point is, it's one metric - and any given metric in a vacuum isn't going to give you the best investment without understanding the goal and purpose of the investment. For instance, ROI is irrelevant in LTB quests because you're not doing the LTB to grow your economy, but rather to gain the rewards associated with the goal.

[Max Power]

ROI is an interestinmg concept in this game, which is much different than the real world. The reality is that we have two forms of currency in this game, fake money and real money. Most of the standards that apply to ROI in the real world do not apply here.

I bought two of these buildings just because. Because I had space, because I am bored, because they look kinda cool, because since I wont spend real money and I have to do something with the 9 mil an hour I make, just because.

I wanted them. Eventually they will be 10s. I have been playing for alomost 2 years. End of story.

[OffensivelyNamedGuy]

I'm at 126, but it's been rocketing upwards with all these LTQs recently. The DM looks like a more expensive version of the casino, which unlocks at 185, so if I bought a second DM, I probably wouldn't touch it for a long, long time.

For me, I'm only level 53, so I don't have access to all those high level type Bs. My nightclubs are levels 5 and 6, and pagodas 7 and 6. I'm very close to the point where the dockside mills become the next logical choice (to build anyway, not quite upgrade yet) because I simply don't have access to any other decent buildings. If I had the same income at level 200, I would have so many other choices before these.

Bottom line is, if you think you'll have the higher level type Bs unlocked by the time upgrading the mill is actually viable, then they will keep you busy. If you don't think you'll have them unlocked, wouldn't hurt to buy another mill.

[minji976]

BM, I would take 1st choice. It's towards end of the Docks cycle, don't spend more on current LE upgrade. The next LE is likely to be a 12hr building, so likely cost less.

[BigMoney]

Update: I actually bought the level 3 Dockside Mills upgrade, the main reason being that I stumbled upon a lot of cash in the past day (no idea why, but not one, not two, but THREE time travelers with level 10 NCs decided to attack me, apparently overconfident in their newfound LTQ prizes). So that level 3 DM will be upgraded in about a day from now. As a result of the recent cash influx (which I hope to milk as long as possible), I now have $110 million. That's enough for another DM, but still short of my preferred NC upgrade (to level 4, $136mil). So now I'm down to two more choices:

1. Purchase second DM
2. Save money for next LTB

Leaning strongly towards the first option, even though the DM is somewhat of a "status symbol" and not necessarily the strongest building, but mxz's point about $75 mil probably not making that much of a difference in terms of getting another upgrade or not (in the Pagoda and DM events, the next upgrade for me has been $100+ mil out of my price range). Also about ****Trickle's point, I think at the rate I'm leveling up with wars/LTQs, I'll probably have cheaper Type B options available (I already have the hotel and credit agencies available, just haven't built them yet since my money is all tied up) but I feel like I will use the DM one day, after the casino, so it couldn't hurt to purchase.

[jmeijer]

I would definitely purchase a second DM. It's a building that will never appear again after this event. Besides, you don't know the costs of the next LE building right now. It's possible that it will be a building priced 10 million..

[mxz]

As others have mentioned in other threads - it's currently the best end-game 48 hour building. If you have the money (especially with some ATM's on your newsfeed) - if it's not a good building already, it will be in a later stage.

[Dipstik]

There's also the possibility that with LTQ buildings coming every 2 weeks, it will NEVER be worth the 125 million to upgrade it to L2. Honestly, I think both my nightclubs will have to be L6 and my Pagodas will be L8 or so before I consider it... and by then there will be other things to work on. I'm looking at whether it's worth it to pay 75mil now for the L1 building when it will never be upgraded.

[ccmike]

As for the LT or LE building cc is following mw. In mw there was a 15m building and than a 25m building and than a 35m building. In cc we did start a 15m building and than a 75m building. So probably an other one will follow but the cost will be somewhere between 125m and 200m. So u better start saving.

[murf]

As for the LT or LE building cc is following mw. In mw there was a 15m building and than a 25m building and than a 35m building. In cc we did start a 15m building and than a 75m building. So probably an other one will follow but the cost will be somewhere between 125m and 200m. So u better start saving.

I think an awesome building would be a type A building costing 125m-200m. Something that equals or exceeds the NC as the best buildings.

[murf]

As for the LT or LE building cc is following mw. In mw there was a 15m building and than a 25m building and than a 35m building. In cc we did start a 15m building and than a 75m building. So probably an other one will follow but the cost will be somewhere between 125m and 200m. So u better start saving.

I think an awesome building would be a type A building costing 125m-200m. Something that equals or exceeds the NC as the best buildings.

And for fun, make it 7 hr or 11 hr collections...

[BigMoney]

As others have mentioned in other threads - it's currently the best end-game 48 hour building. If you have the money (especially with some ATM's on your newsfeed) - if it's not a good building already, it will be in a later stage.


I agree, and this is the logic I went with, so I purchased my second DM a couple hours ago.

I'd like to thank everyone who made this possible:
http://i.imgur.com/ZuR8JHD.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZKNewSU.png


Thanks for the input, everyone.

[murf]

Worth it or not, I had my first full 48hr collection, a couple of hours ago, and it was a cool $32m (2 L5-OBs, L5-DM, L1-DM, and others)....it makes it nice to collect now....

[nopenopenope]

Epic fail on name blanking. Let the ban cometh, and right soon...