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steveo127
05-21-2013, 08:04 PM
*DISCLAIMER*
This is in NO way an attempt to explain whether or not GREE does/will honor bonuses on units which you have more than one of.


Alright, if you are a seasoned veteran of this game, then don't bother reading this. This is addressed to all of those people who still have a difficulty understanding the way the game generates Health Regeneration Time....


Instead of reading the bonus as "-20% health regeneration time" , instead just read it as "20% faster health regeneration"...

for all of you doubters on GREE's math, this should help you to understand.


the initial time it takes to regenerate 1/4 full health so that you can use 1 hit in a boss event is 25 minutes.

let's say you have 1 unit which gives a "-20% health regen"...errr wait! we're calling it "20% faster health regeneration" now!!

what's 20% of 25?....5.

therefore you would have a regeneration time of 20 minutes. now let's assume that this was the regeneration rate for the last boss event in Ireland...

so now you come here to this current PVE LTQ and get the First Strike Tomcat! hip hip hooray!!! another "-20% health reg" oh shoot, nearly forgot!! we're calling it "20% faster health regeneration" !!

so now, going into this new Boss event starting May 24th, what will your new regeneration time be? well what's 20% of 20?....4.

so now in the Madagascar Boss Event, you'll have a health regeneration time of 16 minutes.

notice that we did not do: 20% + 20% = 40% * 25 = 10 minutes, 25-10 = 15 minutes health regen. time.

that is not how it works....

so let's get a bit more complex and say we have 1/6 of the 5% health regeneration bonuses that you can purchase when in a faction...so let's say you're in a really new faction that can't afford a lot of bonuses...

in Ireland, your regen. time would be 5% faster health regen. than 25 minutes.

wha's 5% of 25?....1.25 minutes....so your new health regeneration time would be 23 minutes 45 seconds.....

so when you get 5/6 of the faction health regen. bonuses you should have 25% of 25 minutes = 6.25 minutes= 18.75 minutes for health regeneration, right? WRONG

once again, you must multiply each individual bonus....SO

1/6-----5% faster than 25 minutes 00 seconds = 23 minutes 45 seconds
2/6-----5% faster than 23 minutes 45 seconds = 22 minutes 34 seconds
3/6-----5% faster than 22 minutes 34 seconds = 21 minutes 26 seconds
4/6-----5% faster than 21 minutes 26 seconds = 20 minutes 22 seconds
5/6-----5% faster than 20 minutes 22 seconds = 19 minutes 21 seconds (not 18 minutes 45 seconds)

...so your health regen. time would be 20 minutes 22 seconds....
and if you have all 6/6....

6/6-----5% faster than 19 minutes 21 seconds = 18 minutes 23 seconds

25 minutes * six 5% health regeneration bonuses = 18 minutes 23 seconds

notice this is not equal to 6*5% = 30% faster than 25 minutes which would be 17 minutes 30 seconds.

To all of you who believe GREE doesn't know how to do simple math, I hope you review your arithmetic and quiet down...Sending in tickets for this ridiculous complaint only clogs up their servers and slows down the time it takes for them to respond to meaningful issues...
I hope this sort of helps to explain what is going on with GREE's calculation for health regeneration time.



Good luck in the upcoming Boss Event!



p.s. If you still need help understanding, PM me with ALL of your "faster health regeneration" bonuses and I will write out the math for you.

vNastIER
05-21-2013, 08:11 PM
Nice write up. Even for us vets

Thanks

King little fruit fly
05-21-2013, 08:22 PM
Deleted. PM instead.

Nighthawk
05-21-2013, 09:04 PM
Is the health regen time the same for the WD events as it is for the boss events? 1 point per minute, 25 points per attack, 4 attacks, thus 100 max health points meaning 100 minutes regen time to full health pre-bonus?

steveo127
05-21-2013, 09:19 PM
as far as I understand, it is the same; except there is no wait one extra minute and get 2 attacks instead of one attack trick.


Is the health regen time the same for the WD events as it is for the boss events? 1 point per minute, 25 points per attack, 4 attacks, thus 100 max health points meaning 100 minutes regen time to full health pre-bonus?

Thief
05-21-2013, 09:57 PM
Steveo127 thank you for postinng this. I can't tell you how many i've posted for. I certainly don't mind helping people but hopefully this will help the masses understand how the calcuations on health work.

Mastert55
05-21-2013, 10:47 PM
*DISCLAIMER*
This is in NO way an attempt to explain whether or not GREE does/will honor bonuses on units which you have more than one of.


Alright, if you are a seasoned veteran of this game, then don't bother reading this. This is addressed to all of those people who still have a difficulty understanding the way the game generates Health Regeneration Time....


Instead of reading the bonus as "-20% health regeneration time" , instead just read it as "20% faster health regeneration"...

for all of you doubters on GREE's math, this should help you to understand.


the initial time it takes to regenerate 1/4 full health so that you can use 1 hit in a boss event is 25 minutes.

let's say you have 1 unit which gives a "-20% health regen"...errr wait! we're calling it "20% faster health regeneration" now!!

what's 20% of 25?....5.

therefore you would have a regeneration time of 20 minutes. now let's assume that this was the regeneration rate for the last boss event in Ireland...

so now you come here to this current PVE LTQ and get the First Strike Tomcat! hip hip hooray!!! another "-20% health reg" oh shoot, nearly forgot!! we're calling it "20% faster health regeneration" !!

so now, going into this new Boss event starting May 24th, what will your new regeneration time be? well what's 20% of 20?....4.

so now in the Madagascar Boss Event, you'll have a health regeneration time of 16 minutes.

notice that we did not do: 20% + 20% = 40% * 25 = 10 minutes, 25-10 = 15 minutes health regen. time.

that is not how it works....

so let's get a bit more complex and say we have 1/6 of the 5% health regeneration bonuses that you can purchase when in a faction...so let's say you're in a really new faction that can't afford a lot of bonuses...

in Ireland, your regen. time would be 5% faster health regen. than 25 minutes.

wha's 5% of 25?....1.25 minutes....so your new health regeneration time would be 23 minutes 45 seconds.....

so when you get 5/6 of the faction health regen. bonuses you should have 25% of 25 minutes = 6.25 minutes= 18.75 minutes for health regeneration, right? WRONG

once again, you must multiply each individual bonus....SO

1/6-----5% faster than 25 minutes 00 seconds = 23 minutes 45 seconds
2/6-----5% faster than 23 minutes 45 seconds = 22 minutes 34 seconds
3/6-----5% faster than 22 minutes 34 seconds = 21 minutes 26 seconds
4/6-----5% faster than 21 minutes 26 seconds = 20 minutes 22 seconds
5/6-----5% faster than 20 minutes 22 seconds = 19 minutes 21 seconds (not 18 minutes 45 seconds)

...so your health regen. time would be 20 minutes 22 seconds....
and if you have all 6/6....

6/6-----5% faster than 19 minutes 21 seconds = 18 minutes 23 seconds

25 minutes * six 5% health regeneration bonuses = 18 minutes 23 seconds

notice this is not equal to 6*5% = 30% faster than 25 minutes which would be 17 minutes 30 seconds.

To all of you who believe GREE doesn't know how to do simple math, I hope you review your arithmetic and quiet down...Sending in tickets for this ridiculous complaint only clogs up their servers and slows down the time it takes for them to respond to meaningful issues...
I hope this sort of helps to explain what is going on with GREE's calculation for health regeneration time.



Good luck in the upcoming Boss Event!



p.s. If you still need help understanding, PM me with ALL of your "faster health regeneration" bonuses and I will write out the math for you.

Why does GREE give us this bull **** and spend all this money to get a "valuable unit" if it's not going to do any substantial boost?!? My faction already has a 17 min health regen, why would I spend gold to get another minute on a faster health regen. This is shananagins!!!

Dutchie
05-21-2013, 11:41 PM
Those calculations are correct but when you add the Deadly Bridge Jumper with -20% health regen, GREE's maths goes all Pete Tong. In the WD event, it takes me exactly 15 mins to regenerate 25 health and it should be 14mins 43secs using the formula 0.95^6*0.8. Please explain that one!

Am I being short changed yet again?

steveo127
05-21-2013, 11:54 PM
that's a difference of 17 seconds...and the wars are each 1 hour long...you're only going to get in a max of 4 extra hits regardless...

but to try to more thoughtfully answer your question, I'd wager that it has something to do with WD events being more "important"...GREE would definitely get more complaints about something being unfair in a WD event since it's competitive against other people and not just oneself, as boss evetns are really just up to you, no one else is really involved...

that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some rounding involved for health regeneration in wars, to keep the playing field easier to deal with I guess...it's easier to work with integers than decimals...especially when decimals need to be converted to seconds...though yes, you are correct; 14 minutes, 42.11 seconds

but please humor me, I'm curious...did you truly time it with a stop watch? seems like such a frivolous discrepancy that one might think the difference is due to human error perhaps?


Those calculations are correct but when you add the Deadly Bridge Jumper with -20% health regen, GREE's maths goes all Pete Tong. In the WD event, it takes me exactly 15 mins to regenerate 25 health and it should be 14mins 43secs using the formula 0.95^6*0.8. Please explain that one!

Am I being short changed yet again?

United Nation of Foxes
05-22-2013, 12:41 AM
Cheers for explanation steveo

Dutchie
05-22-2013, 01:01 AM
that's a difference of 17 seconds...and the wars are each 1 hour long...you're only going to get in a max of 4 extra hits regardless...but to try to more thoughtfully answer your question, I'd wager that it has something to do with WD events being more "important"...GREE would definitely get more complaints about something being unfair in a WD event since it's competitive against other people and not just oneself, as boss evetns are really just up to you, no one else is really involved...that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some rounding involved for health regeneration in wars, to keep the playing field easier to deal with I guess...it's easier to work with integers than decimals...especially when decimals need to be converted to seconds...though yes, you are correct; 14 minutes, 42.11 secondsbut please humor me, I'm curious...did you truly time it with a stop watch? seems like such a frivolous discrepancy that one might think the difference is due to human error perhaps?

No stopwatch. I use the Power Attack button to show how much time is remaining to regenerate the health back to full and at exactly 45 mins remaining, I can take attack my target again.

You say a frivolous discrepancy, I say we are being short changed again.

steveo127
05-22-2013, 01:10 AM
45 minutes remaining doesn't mean that it took 15 minutes to regenerate. that would just meaning that at about 15 seconds into the war is when that screen popped up, meaning you pressed power attack probably about 10 seconds into the war.

war starts----------------------------------------------------------------------------60:00 left
you click on battle list---------------------------------------------------------------59:55 left
you look at DL, click power attack-------------------------------------------------59:50 left
power attack results screen show--------------------------------------------------59:43 left
immediately click out of results screen to check how long until next hit--------59:40 left

by that timeline, you would read that your next hit will take place at 45 minutes exactly. which is actually only 14 minutes 43 seconds of health regeneration time, since the power attack registered with 59:43 left, and 14 minutes 43 seconds later is when the time remaining in the war will read exactly 45:00....

does that make sense?


by your same logic you could claim that GREE is gipping you and making you wait 30 minutes 43 seconds if you don't hit at all and then Power Attack at 44 minutes 00 seconds.....or whatever other random amount of time, based on when you first hit....

FromAfar
05-22-2013, 01:19 AM
Op, I may be mistaken, but I think you missed Devin's point.

Assuming a person has no other regen benefits, aside from what could be earned in this event, and said person completes both regular and prestige mode, they will acquire 2 units, each of which promise -20%.

Devin's point is that the example persons recharge time would be 20 minutes not 16 minutes

In other words, they have 2 units, but only get the reduction applied one time. Not 2 times, as in one reduction for each unit.

25m - 20% being 20m, and no deduction being applied for the 2nd unit, earned in prestige. Which should result in further reducing the 20m - 20% = 16m

Apologies if I misunderstand / misrepresent Devins point

steveo127
05-22-2013, 01:31 AM
oh brother...please re-read the very first line of my post, haha :)



Op, I may be mistaken, but I think you missed Devin's point.

Assuming a person has no other regen benefits, aside from what could be earned in this event, and said person completes both regular and prestige mode, they will acquire 2 units, each of which promise -20%.

Devin's point is that the example persons recharge time would be 20 minutes not 16 minutes

In other words, they have 2 units, but only get the reduction applied one time. Not 2 times, as in one reduction for each unit.

25m - 20% being 20m, and no deduction being applied for the 2nd unit, earned in prestige. Which should result in further reducing the 20m - 20% = 16m

Apologies if I misunderstand / misrepresent Devins point

Arnaud
05-22-2013, 01:42 AM
Thanks Steveo127.

My regen is >15min so there is something I still don't get. So I have the Deadly Bridge Jumper (+20%) and 6/6 for the faction bonus. Should it be: 25min-5min-6min37sec = 13min23sec?

If yes then something is wrong coz my regen is slightly about 16min so I can do only 7 hits during WD and 19 hits to the bosses.

What am I missing? Is it because the faction bonus applies to the already discounted personal regen (20min and not 25min my case)?

ps: when I get the First Strike Tomcat, I won't get an additional -4min since I have a deadly bridge jumper?

WI(AusNz)
05-22-2013, 02:18 AM
Thanks for spending the time steveo, Great job

Dutchie
05-22-2013, 02:20 AM
45 minutes remaining doesn't mean that it took 15 minutes to regenerate. that would just meaning that at about 15 seconds into the war is when that screen popped up, meaning you pressed power attack probably about 10 seconds into the war.

war starts----------------------------------------------------------------------------60:00 left
you click on battle list---------------------------------------------------------------59:55 left
you look at DL, click power attack-------------------------------------------------59:50 left
power attack results screen show--------------------------------------------------59:43 left
immediately click out of results screen to check how long until next hit--------59:40 left

by that timeline, you would read that your next hit will take place at 45 minutes exactly. which is actually only 14 minutes 43 seconds of health regeneration time, since the power attack registered with 59:43 left, and 14 minutes 43 seconds later is when the time remaining in the war will read exactly 45:00....

does that make sense?


by your same logic you could claim that GREE is gipping you and making you wait 30 minutes 43 seconds if you don't hit at all and then Power Attack at 44 minutes 00 seconds.....or whatever other random amount of time, based on when you first hit....

No that is not correct. As soon as it is 45 mins left remaining and this can be anytime during the battle, I attack the player and when I hit the Power Attack button again, the time remaining is 59 mins and 56 secs or whatever the lag was from me closing the Power Attack screen, to hitting the player and then back to pressing the Power Attack button which is usually a couple of seconds (4 secs in this example). It won't allow me to attack at 45 mins 1 secs remaining.

Believe me steveo, I am correct.

I believe that the algorithm for the faction health regen boost and the unit health regen boost are different and it certainly does not abide by the formula 0.95^6*0.8. Now what the actual formula is...

steveo127
05-22-2013, 12:41 PM
I think it's rather rude to start off a response with "No that is not correct." but I'll try to ignore that and get to what matters.

can you try to reiterate what you meant by all of that? I have tried multiple times and cannot seem to comprehend what it is that you are saying and how on earth you are telling me what I wrote was wrong...

unless I'm having a complete brain lapse, then I believe this should explain what you're seeing ...

"war starts----------------------------------------------------------------------------60:00 left
you click on battle list---------------------------------------------------------------59:55 left
you look at DL, click power attack-------------------------------------------------59:50 left
power attack results screen show--------------------------------------------------59:43 left
immediately click out of results screen to check how long until next hit--------59:40 left

by that timeline, you would read that your next hit will take place at 45 minutes exactly. which is actually only 14 minutes 43 seconds of health regeneration time, since the power attack registered with 59:43 left, and 14 minutes 43 seconds later is when the time remaining in the war will read exactly 45:00...."


please try to clarify what it was that you were saying; I'm still a bit confused at how my math can be wrong.


No that is not correct. As soon as it is 45 mins left remaining and this can be anytime during the battle, I attack the player and when I hit the Power Attack button again, the time remaining is 59 mins and 56 secs or whatever the lag was from me closing the Power Attack screen, to hitting the player and then back to pressing the Power Attack button which is usually a couple of seconds (4 secs in this example). It won't allow me to attack at 45 mins 1 secs remaining.

Believe me steveo, I am correct.

I believe that the algorithm for the faction health regen boost and the unit health regen boost are different and it certainly does not abide by the formula 0.95^6*0.8. Now what the actual formula is...

Dutchie
05-22-2013, 01:09 PM
You've lost me now. When a war starts I have full health and it is not regenerating until I make the first attack, so the regeneration clock is at 00:00, but you show 60:00? So where do you get these 17 seconds from? For starters, I can tap a lot faster than what you are suggesting... Never mind, I can't be arsed...

steveo127
05-22-2013, 01:21 PM
60:00 remaining in the war...but I'm still confused...How am I wrong? You told me to trust you; that you are right. All I've been trying to say was give a possible explanation as to why you think it registers as 15 minutes exactly when it should register as 14 minutes 43 seconds...

perhaps we are talking about 2 different things in which case we're both right?


You've lost me now. When a war starts I have full health and it is not regenerating until I make the first attack, so the regeneration clock is at 00:00, but you show 60:00? So where do you get these 17 seconds from? For starters, I can tap a lot faster than what you are suggesting... Never mind, I can't be arsed...

Miner
05-22-2013, 01:52 PM
Good work steveo.

Here's a nice little table I posted for someone's use once (buried now) that shows exactly what he's talking about.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?53236-Might-as-well-get-it-out-now!&p=735072#post735072

Lamentor
05-22-2013, 02:24 PM
It seems like the confusion is with the "power attack" button and what it actually does. steveo127 is under the impression from what it seems like, (as am I) that hitting power attack simply shows the time remaining in the war (not sure if it's different on ios or android.. don't know why it would be), while it seems Dutchie is under the impression that hitting power attack shows the time remaining until the next power attack.

As I recall, power attack says something like "War ends in xx:xx," and mentions nothing of when the next power attack is. If this is the case, then just based on the server load time alone, steveo is right. Human error makes up for the difference of a few seconds. So, if you manage to get the first attack off as soon as humanly possible (it doesn't start the war on the page that lists all the members, so there's naturally a delay just getting to that page, then hitting the attack button, then the server has to register the attack. Actually, when you think about it, it's almost amazing how close to 17 seconds the delay would be). So hitting power attack again to determine your regen time off of a timer that's based off when the war started, you'll find that your second attack will land at around 45 minutes remaining instead.

Easy solution, use a stop watch to find out what the time is more accurately and stop relying on in game timers, which are already unreliable. I always manage to use 1 stamina 3-4 seconds before I actually have 1 just due to delay.

Joe Op
05-22-2013, 03:59 PM
....for all of you doubters on GREE's math, this should help you to....

1/6-5% faster than 25min 00sec = 23min 45sec
2/6-5% faster than 23min 45sec = 22min 34sec
3/6-5% faster than 22min 34sec = 21min 26sec
4/6-5% faster than 21min 26sec = 20min 22sec
5/6-5% faster than 20min 22sec = 19min 21sec
6/6-5% faster than 19min 21sec = 18min 23sec

To all of you who believe GREE doesn't know how to do simple math, I hope you review your arithmetic and quiet down...Sending in tickets for this ridiculous complaint only clogs up their servers and slows down the time it takes for them to respond to meaningful issues...


Hey steveo127

I can do my math and thats what i figured out as well. Since your calc is right (start with 25min or 100min doesnt matter..) i still wonder why the maximum faction health boost is only 14% instead of 26%.. Do you also have a answer on this?

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/Joe_op/forum%20stuff/606A3160-9E41-4D43-B57A-7B58C5CDF392-2505-000002925F055BE2_zpsee2af6f9.jpg

Full post:
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?55280-GREE-Please-explain-boost-stacking&p=773198#post773198

I still doubt - at least the stats. I also dont know how the bonuses are added, its different if you have first a -30% boost followed by a -5% boost then vice versa. I know you know what i mean.

Viva
Joe

steveo127
05-22-2013, 05:24 PM
order doesn't matter when calculating bonuses....

say you have a 20% faster regen bonus, and then you have a 5% faster regen bonus...whichever order you apply the bonuses, you will come out with the same answer...SO, let say you start with the baseline of 25 minutes...

25 minutes 00 seconds - 30% of 25 minutes 00 seconds = 17 minutes 30 seconds

17 minutes 30 seconds - 5% of 17 minutes 30 seconds = 16 minutes 37.5 seconds

percentage wise, this is a 33.5% faster regeneration rate....

same thing, but this time reverse the order in which the boosts are applied:

25 minutes 00 seconds - 5% of 25 minutes 00 seconds = 23 minutes 45 seconds

23 minutes 45 seconds - 30% of 23 minutes 45 seconds = 16 minutes 37.5 seconds

whichever order in which they are applied, you arrive at the same numbers.


also, I'm confused why you say that the maximum health boost is 14% instead of 26%...it is 26% faster if you have all 6 5% faster health regeneration bonuses



Hey steveo127

I can do my math and thats what i figured out as well. Since your calc is right (start with 25min or 100min doesnt matter..) i still wonder why the maximum faction health boost is only 14% instead of 26%.. Do you also have a answer on this?

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/Joe_op/forum%20stuff/606A3160-9E41-4D43-B57A-7B58C5CDF392-2505-000002925F055BE2_zpsee2af6f9.jpg

Full post:
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?55280-GREE-Please-explain-boost-stacking&p=773198#post773198

I still doubt - at least the stats. I also dont know how the bonuses are added, its different if you have first a -30% boost followed by a -5% boost then vice versa. I know you know what i mean.

Viva
Joe

Joe Op
05-22-2013, 09:55 PM
steveo127

My bad! Twice!

You are correct! Doenst matter (30% plus a 5%) which one you multiply first. Thanks!
-> 100 * 0.7 * 0.95 = 100 * 0.95 * 0.7.

And OMG! I jused the health regen info from my llp instead my hlp, yes; its 26% when you have all the faction boosts. Its 14% with 3 bonuses which is also correct. I'll have to apologise in the other thread.

steveo127
05-23-2013, 10:39 AM
No worries friend, I know what you mean, it can get confusing with all of these bonuses especially on different accounts.Hope you enjoy getting hits in on the boss 20% faster in Madagascar!

steveo127

My bad! Twice!

You are correct! Doenst matter (30% plus a 5%) which one you multiply first. Thanks!
-> 100 * 0.7 * 0.95 = 100 * 0.95 * 0.7.

And OMG! I jused the health regen info from my llp instead my hlp, yes; its 26% when you have all the faction boosts. Its 14% with 3 bonuses which is also correct. I'll have to apologise in the other thread.

Selfproclaimed
05-23-2013, 10:53 AM
I'm horrible wth math, I look at all that and it might as well be a different language. I have 95% total individual units. 3 units that are 20% a piece. 1 unit that is 30%. 1 unit that is 5 %. Plus a measly 15% faction health. So what should my time be??? I haven't even ever timed mine.

CDR Shepard
05-23-2013, 10:54 AM
No worries friend, I know what you mean, it can get confusing with all of these bonuses especially on different accounts.Hope you enjoy getting hits in on the boss 20% faster in Madagascar!

Stevo,
Thanks for your help with this! That is all.
-shep

Arizona
05-23-2013, 12:26 PM
...and for my next trick, the long version! LOL.

A good explanation and makes sense to me. Thx
I generally just subtract the % Regens from 1. Multiply them all together, multiply by 100 and that's your time for a full bar, eg. 20% and 30% units, 0.8 x 0.7 =0.56. Full health bar in 56 mins. (divide by 4 for a hit time)

steveo127
05-23-2013, 05:45 PM
well...

20% of 25=5 so 20
20% of 20=4 so 16
20% of 16=3.2 so 12.8 minutes (12 minutes 48 seconds)
30% of 12.8=3.84 so 8.96 minutes (8 minutes 58 seconds)
5% of 8.96=....going to skip a few steps here.....
5% of ^
5% of ^
5% of ^

so 7.616 minutes (7 minutes 37 seconds)
5% of 7.616=0.3808 so 7.235 minutes (7 minutes 15 seconds)

SO you actually have a 70.8% time reduction meaning you are at only 7 minutes 30 seconds before you can hit the boss again....and I went ahead and did a little extra calculation for you...normally you'd need to wait 26 minutes to get the two hits since you get 1 more health than the 25 needed for 1 hit....with your time reduction, you only need to wait for a total of 7 minutes 46 seconds to hit the boss twice...considering the boss is 2 hours long...you can get in 32 + 4 from beginning = 36 hits total, if timed perfectly, with around 7 minutes of wiggle room......


and that's pretty darn good, consider yourself lucky! many people would be jealous...good luck with KK starting tomorrow!



I'm horrible wth math, I look at all that and it might as well be a different language. I have 95% total individual units. 3 units that are 20% a piece. 1 unit that is 30%. 1 unit that is 5 %. Plus a measly 15% faction health. So what should my time be??? I haven't even ever timed mine.

Bravo Zulu
05-23-2013, 06:08 PM
*DISCLAIMER*
This is in NO way an attempt to explain whether or not GREE does/will honor bonuses on units which you have more than one of.


Alright, if you are a seasoned veteran of this game, then don't bother reading this. This is addressed to all of those people who still have a difficulty understanding the way the game generates Health Regeneration Time....


Instead of reading the bonus as "-20% health regeneration time" , instead just read it as "20% faster health regeneration"...

for all of you doubters on GREE's math, this should help you to understand.


the initial time it takes to regenerate 1/4 full health so that you can use 1 hit in a boss event is 25 minutes.

let's say you have 1 unit which gives a "-20% health regen"...errr wait! we're calling it "20% faster health regeneration" now!!

what's 20% of 25?....5.

therefore you would have a regeneration time of 20 minutes. now let's assume that this was the regeneration rate for the last boss event in Ireland...

so now you come here to this current PVE LTQ and get the First Strike Tomcat! hip hip hooray!!! another "-20% health reg" oh shoot, nearly forgot!! we're calling it "20% faster health regeneration" !!

so now, going into this new Boss event starting May 24th, what will your new regeneration time be? well what's 20% of 20?....4.

so now in the Madagascar Boss Event, you'll have a health regeneration time of 16 minutes.

notice that we did not do: 20% + 20% = 40% * 25 = 10 minutes, 25-10 = 15 minutes health regen. time.

that is not how it works....

so let's get a bit more complex and say we have 1/6 of the 5% health regeneration bonuses that you can purchase when in a faction...so let's say you're in a really new faction that can't afford a lot of bonuses...

in Ireland, your regen. time would be 5% faster health regen. than 25 minutes.

wha's 5% of 25?....1.25 minutes....so your new health regeneration time would be 23 minutes 45 seconds.....

so when you get 5/6 of the faction health regen. bonuses you should have 25% of 25 minutes = 6.25 minutes= 18.75 minutes for health regeneration, right? WRONG

once again, you must multiply each individual bonus....SO

1/6-----5% faster than 25 minutes 00 seconds = 23 minutes 45 seconds
2/6-----5% faster than 23 minutes 45 seconds = 22 minutes 34 seconds
3/6-----5% faster than 22 minutes 34 seconds = 21 minutes 26 seconds
4/6-----5% faster than 21 minutes 26 seconds = 20 minutes 22 seconds
5/6-----5% faster than 20 minutes 22 seconds = 19 minutes 21 seconds (not 18 minutes 45 seconds)

...so your health regen. time would be 20 minutes 22 seconds....
and if you have all 6/6....

6/6-----5% faster than 19 minutes 21 seconds = 18 minutes 23 seconds

25 minutes * six 5% health regeneration bonuses = 18 minutes 23 seconds

notice this is not equal to 6*5% = 30% faster than 25 minutes which would be 17 minutes 30 seconds.

To all of you who believe GREE doesn't know how to do simple math, I hope you review your arithmetic and quiet down...Sending in tickets for this ridiculous complaint only clogs up their servers and slows down the time it takes for them to respond to meaningful issues...
I hope this sort of helps to explain what is going on with GREE's calculation for health regeneration time.



Good luck in the upcoming Boss Event!



p.s. If you still need help understanding, PM me with ALL of your "faster health regeneration" bonuses and I will write out the math for you.

Very well done. I understand and can calculate it the way it had already been posted- but had a hard time explaining it to others. This will help me explain in a more straightforward manner when people don't automatically extrapolate the "why" from the other calculations.

Good post.

Arizona
05-23-2013, 06:13 PM
I'm horrible wth math, I look at all that and it might as well be a different language. I have 95% total individual units. 3 units that are 20% a piece. 1 unit that is 30%. 1 unit that is 5 %. Plus a measly 15% faction health. So what should my time be??? I haven't even ever timed mine.

Hello Self, I got almost the same result as above;
20%, 20%, 20% 30% 5% and 15% faction B.
0.8 x 0.8 x 0.8 x 0.7 x 0.95 x 0.95^3 = 0.2919 or 29.19 mins full health
7 mins 18 secs per hit (Nice going man!)

Exactly same time as mine when I get the mission 35 unit 2moro.

Selfproclaimed
05-23-2013, 06:26 PM
Thanks Steve. If I had full faction health bonus, what would it be? Lol during this last WD event, it seemed like it took me around 12-13 minutes to get a hit in ( I was only short 1 20% unit from this ltq ). I didnt time it exactly so I could be off but it just seemed like it was around 12-13 min.

Arizona, I just got that with this latest ltq unit as well. I know their is another 20% in the prestige mode isn't their? Lol

steveo127
05-23-2013, 06:54 PM
ahh shoot i just realized i didn't calculate yours 100% correctly. i read 15% but you tricked me!! it's not 15% it's 3 5%'s lol. one second, i'll see

just went ahead and did the calculations myself and if you had all 6 of the 5% faction boosts then you'd regenerate 1/4 health in 6 minutes 16 seconds...and you'd be able to do 2 hits in 6 minutes 23 seconds...for a total possible 36 hits + 4 you start with = 40


Thanks Steve. If I had full faction health bonus, what would it be? Lol during this last WD event, it seemed like it took me around 12-13 minutes to get a hit in ( I was only short 1 20% unit from this ltq ). I didnt time it exactly so I could be off but it just seemed like it was around 12-13 min.

Arizona, I just got that with this latest ltq unit as well. I know their is another 20% in the prestige mode isn't their? Lol

Selfproclaimed
05-23-2013, 09:11 PM
The faction I'm in has 18% health bonus, but I must be missing something here, if I had full faction health, 2 hits in 6 min. and 23 seconds??? Before I could only get 1 hit every 12-13 minutes or so and your telling me I should be able to do 2 hits in half the time ,something's not right ,lol

steveo127
05-23-2013, 09:18 PM
If what you told me is accurate, then my math should be correct. If you have 3 20% boosts, 7 5% boosts (this would be assuming you had all 6/6 5% faction boosts, and one 30% boost, then it should take that amount of time.


The faction I'm in has 18% health bonus, but I must be missing something here, if I had full faction health, 2 hits in 6 min. and 23 seconds??? Before I could only get 1 hit every 12-13 minutes or so and your telling me I should be able to do 2 hits in half the time ,something's not right ,lol

mgriss
05-23-2013, 09:42 PM
Thanks, I'll direct people here who want the long explanation. I tell them to think of it as compound interest... but with negative numbers. Instead of adding incrementally more each time, you're subtracting incrementally less each time.

JCL
05-23-2013, 10:07 PM
This is an awesome thread. Thank you Steveo. Between this and Devin's walkthroughs, this forum makes my game play a ton more enjoyable because I understand what's going on. It's also helpful as an officer to have these answers when people ask in the faction forums.

This should be a sticky thread.

krabbie
05-24-2013, 12:36 AM
The calculations work for me, only problem occurs is when health regeneration units don't stack, like the current ones from normal and prestige mode... Just found out after spending a lot of gold... :S

MoD
05-24-2013, 12:53 AM
thanks for your explanation, steveo. very helpful.

TheOracle
05-24-2013, 01:35 AM
Thanks for taking the time to explain this for people. Non-additive boosts are always a little confusing.

steveo127
05-24-2013, 08:36 AM
Of course! Just trying to do my part and be a helpful player! let me know if there's anything else I can do


Thanks for taking the time to explain this for people. Non-additive boosts are always a little confusing.

tony5560
05-24-2013, 10:49 AM
I am bad at math also I have 6 of 6 in my faction plus 2 20 percent bonuses what should my mine be

Agent Orange
05-24-2013, 10:55 AM
Thanks for taking the time to post this Steveo! Very useful info.

Westusmc
05-24-2013, 10:56 AM
The reason GREE calculates the health regen the way they do is so the health regen never goes to 0. If you were to accumulate 5 20% boost units then you would have a 0 minute regeneration time. That can't be allowed to happen because it results in infinite attacks. That would be pretty cool, but it would destroy parts of the game.

Westusmc
05-24-2013, 10:57 AM
@ tony, 11.76 minutes to get 25 points of health regeneration.

steveo127
05-24-2013, 11:11 AM
Nice write up. Even for us vets

Thanks


Steveo127 thank you for postinng this. I can't tell you how many i've posted for. I certainly don't mind helping people but hopefully this will help the masses understand how the calcuations on health work.


Cheers for explanation steveo


Thanks Steveo127.

My regen is >15min so there is something I still don't get. So I have the Deadly Bridge Jumper (+20%) and 6/6 for the faction bonus. Should it be: 25min-5min-6min37sec = 13min23sec?

If yes then something is wrong coz my regen is slightly about 16min so I can do only 7 hits during WD and 19 hits to the bosses.

What am I missing? Is it because the faction bonus applies to the already discounted personal regen (20min and not 25min my case)?

ps: when I get the First Strike Tomcat, I won't get an additional -4min since I have a deadly bridge jumper?


Thanks for spending the time steveo, Great job


Good work steveo.

Here's a nice little table I posted for someone's use once (buried now) that shows exactly what he's talking about.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?53236-Might-as-well-get-it-out-now!&p=735072#post735072


steveo127

My bad! Twice!

You are correct! Doenst matter (30% plus a 5%) which one you multiply first. Thanks!
-> 100 * 0.7 * 0.95 = 100 * 0.95 * 0.7.

And OMG! I jused the health regen info from my llp instead my hlp, yes; its 26% when you have all the faction boosts. Its 14% with 3 bonuses which is also correct. I'll have to apologise in the other thread.


Stevo,
Thanks for your help with this! That is all.
-shep


Very well done. I understand and can calculate it the way it had already been posted- but had a hard time explaining it to others. This will help me explain in a more straightforward manner when people don't automatically extrapolate the "why" from the other calculations.

Good post.


This is an awesome thread. Thank you Steveo. Between this and Devin's walkthroughs, this forum makes my game play a ton more enjoyable because I understand what's going on. It's also helpful as an officer to have these answers when people ask in the faction forums.

This should be a sticky thread.
Probably the greatest compliment I've received in this virtual world^^^ :)



thanks for your explanation, steveo. very helpful.


Thanks for taking the time to explain this for people. Non-additive boosts are always a little confusing.


Thanks for taking the time to post this Steveo! Very useful info.


Thank you for all of the positive feedback! Just felt it was my social responsibility to try to help other people understand as I hate seeing all of the negative comments and arguments and pointing fingers, and I hope that through my words I may have been able to help with this thread. Thank you

Dutchie
05-26-2013, 12:41 AM
@ tony, 11.76 minutes to get 25 points of health regeneration.

I have 6/6 faction health regen boosts and 2 units with -20% health regen boosts but for me it takes 12 mins to get 25 points of health regeneration.

I trigger the boss and hit him 3 times. I watch my health bar carefully and when I see it go up to 26 health, I hit him two more times and then I get the below splash screen. If I am fast enough, it shows 11:60 time remaining! That is correct as GREE's timer clock shows 60 instead of 00! I am not fast enough on the screen capture which here has a lag of 2 seconds -


http://i39.tinypic.com/2ufaeq9.jpg


Now, please can someone explain this one! One of the GREE developers to respond would be nice :)

Steveo is correct with his calculations, but it is not what I am seeing in my game and I feel that I am being short changed!!!

ffp
05-26-2013, 01:31 AM
Regen numbers looks close to right.

100*(0.95^6)*(0.8^2)=47.04min full regen or 28.2s per 1%. 25% is 11.76min so you are shortchanged about 15s.


I have 6/6 faction health regen boosts and 2 units with -20% health regen boosts but for me it takes 12 mins to get 25 points of health regeneration.

I trigger the boss and hit him 3 times. I watch my health bar carefully and when I see it go up to 26 health, I hit him two more times and then I get the below splash screen. If I am fast enough, it shows 11:60 time remaining! That is correct as GREE's timer clock shows 60 instead of 00! I am not fast enough on the screen capture which here has a lag of 2 seconds -


-IMAGE REMOVED-


Now, please can someone explain this one! One of the GREE developers to respond would be nice :)

Steveo is correct with his calculations, but it is not what I am seeing in my game and I feel that I am being short changed!!!

Dutchie
05-26-2013, 01:44 AM
Regen numbers looks close to right.100*(0.95^6)*(0.8^2)=47.04min full regen or 28.2s per 1%. 25% is 11.76min so you are shortchanged about 15s.

That is why I said in an earlier post that the above equation does not hold true in GREE's Health Regeneration algorithm. Have you checked what you actually get?

I was fast enough this time round with the screenshot but it didn't show 11:60 this time round... I will see if I can screen capture that one too... for laughs :)


http://i41.tinypic.com/v7s9z7.jpg

BigD@wg
05-26-2013, 04:34 AM
Thanks for taking the time to explain this for people. Non-additive boosts are always a little confusing.

Non-working boosts are even more confusing to people.

Dutchie
05-26-2013, 05:06 AM
...I was fast enough this time round with the screenshot but it didn't show 11:60 this time round... I will see if I can screen capture that one too... for laughs :)

EPIC FAIL!

http://i43.tinypic.com/igc775.jpg

Dutchie
05-27-2013, 12:24 AM
Anyone care to explain?

ptong
05-27-2013, 01:06 AM
helps the understanding! :D

Dutchie
05-27-2013, 01:22 AM
helps the understanding! :DGreat post but either steveo is wrong or GREE are wrong. I'm leaning towards GREE because I should be getting another 2 hits on the Epic Boss event and I don't!

ffp
05-27-2013, 02:02 AM
@dutchie: I just tested this and I have the correct regen time. I have 2 faction regen and 2 20% individual boost and my regen time is 14min 29s which is pretty close to my calculation.

I agree there is something wrong with yours. I've tried to work backwards with the numbers you gave.
12min for 25% is 48min full regen, so boost of 0.48.
removing the 2 20% boost 0.48/0.8/0.8=0.75
But 6 faction boost gives 0.735 not 0.75

TLDR you should see 47.04min regen not 48min.

Tournai
05-27-2013, 02:04 AM
Those calculations are correct but when you add the Deadly Bridge Jumper with -20% health regen, GREE's maths goes all Pete Tong. In the WD event, it takes me exactly 15 mins to regenerate 25 health and it should be 14mins 43secs using the formula 0.95^6*0.8. Please explain that one!

Am I being short changed yet again?

Indeed Dutchie, I am waiting 14 minutes now :D