Type A vs Type B Building Income

[itzkakarot]

Recently several people have been asking me what makes a Type A vs a Type B building, so I figured I'd do a little refresh for all the new people who weren't on the forums a year ago when it was in its heyday.

The terms "Type A" and "Type B" were coined by Tramp Stamp, a big math/economics guru who quit the game over a year ago. Here's (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?13183-Payout-algorithm-explained&highlight=Payout+algorithm+explained) his original post, which I'll paraphrase in this thread.

Type A buildings have an income growth like the following:



Level
Income Multiplier


1
1x


2
3x


3
6x


4
10x


5
15x


6
22x


7
31x


8
42x


9
55x


10
75x




While Type B buildings grow at a slower rate, around half of the Type As, according to this scale:



Level
Income Multiplier


1
1x


2
2x


3
3.5x


4
5.5x


5
8x


6
11x


7
14.5x


8
18.5x


9
23x


10
30x




Type A buildings include all mafia-unlockable cash buildings, some (not all) gold buildings, and most if not all LE buildings. Here's the full list, which is also on my Hood Planner sheet:

Barbershop - $140
Basketball Court - $150 - Gold Building
Chinese Pagoda - $240,000 - LE Building from Chinatown Takedown event
Deli - $60
Diner - $100
Empire Theater - $450 - Gold Building
Frosty Hideout - $4,000 - Gold Building / Limited Holiday Building
Gas Station - $55
Gingerbread House - $100 - Gold Building
Gobble Gobble Buffet - $3,800 - Gold Building / Limited Holiday Building
Gun Shop - $300
Haunted Mansion - $500 - Gold Building / Limited Holiday Building
House - $360
Ice Cream Shop - $95 - Gold Building
Italian Restaurant - $140
Laundromat - $5
Loft - $11,000
Mansion - $850 - Gold Building
Movie Theater - $3,100
Nightclub - $175,000
Pawn Shop - $125
Pizza Parlor - $30
Souvenir Store - $60
Tattoo Parlor - $105
Techno Club - $1,000 - Gold Building


Type A buildings have a much better growth rate than Type Bs, which is why most econ gurus will recommend focusing the high-yield Type As when building your economy (Night Clubs, Lofts, Gobbles, Snowmen, and now Chinese Pagodas). That isn't to say that you shouldn't upgrade Type Bs, but for folks that want to keep things simple and focus on a small list, the high Type As will be your best bet.

[bald zeemer]

To elaborate a bit: Type-B's can be very good (I'm look at you Palm Hotel, Casino, Gentleman's Club, etc), but the biggest benefits come from upgrading to mid-level (4-5), whereas type-A's are typically well worth pushing much further along (especially NCs. And the Pagodas). Long-term all the big buildings (both Type-A and type-B) are worth upgrading, but for 99.9% of the CC population holding off on type-Bs in the mid-levels is the best bet.

[itzkakarot]

To elaborate a bit: Type-B's can be very good (I'm look at you Palm Hotel, Casino, Gentleman's Club, etc), but the biggest benefits come from upgrading to mid-level (4-5), whereas type-A's are typically well worth pushing much further along (especially NCs. And the Pagodas). Long-term all the big buildings (both Type-A and type-B) are worth upgrading, but for 99.9% of the CC population holding off on type-Bs in the mid-levels is the best bet.
Very good point, BZ. I'll elaborate on your elaboration. :D The high-yielding Type B's (Palms, GCs, Hotels, Office Buildings, Rock Cafes) are best to upgrade, but it's not cost effective to continue to upgrade one building type, it's best to rotate them with NC upgrades.

The pillar of your hood's econ growth are the Night Clubs, plain and simple. Even if you can only collect 3x a day they're still by far the largest bang for your buck in both upgrade cost and time. So only upgrade the other buildings in between NC upgrades, so that you can keep buildings going while still saving money. Around the mid lvl 100s, I found a really nice groove between NCs, GCs, Hotels and Office Buildings, where I could upgrade both sets of the other 3 buildings types 1 level each and have enough for an NC upgrade in the next go around. You can use the Planning tab on my hood spreadsheet to find the groove that works for you.

[hooligan1966]

Thanks for info, been looking for the difference for ages.

[Bala82]

But to be effective with in game cash you must be no-banking accept any loss you incur when mid 100 levels.

[bald zeemer]

No-banking is IPH based, not level based (well, with a slight exception).

$1.5m iph you should definitely no-bank. If you are stronger for your level you can start doing it prior to hitting this mark.
After level 200 you are able to be hit more than 10 times per 2 hours, so the IPH required to efficiently no-bank no matter what increases, maxing out at level 250 (241+?) at $3m.

Exception: Banking during wars is advisable. Especially if you are DL.

[mxz]

Best (legitimate) thread of the week.

Itz is absolutely right - NC's have been far and away the best buildings in the game. With the addition of Type A LE buildings we could see them be overtaken at some point. Any campers that can afford Pagodas should get them.

Because of the limited aspect, this is the only scenario where I'd tell people to entertain the thought of getting 2 before upgrading the first to level 2 (unless you will have the money to build the second before its no longer available).

The math on why you'd normally upgrade a Type A's to Level 2 before building the second has been hashed out a few times. I have a thread on why you should upgrade to 2, then build the second, upgrade to 2 and then upgrade evenly in my sig.
Edit: Also, here (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?39348-Exhausting-guide-to-NC-build-upgrade-order).

[Bala82]

No-banking is IPH based, not level based (well, with a slight exception).

$1.5m iph you should definitely no-bank. If you are stronger for your level you can start doing it prior to hitting this mark.
After level 200 you are able to be hit more than 10 times per 2 hours, so the IPH required to efficiently no-bank no matter what increases, maxing out at level 250 (241+?) at $3m.

Exception: Banking during wars is advisable. Especially if you are DL.

Your right since we were talking about (Palms, GCs, Hotels, Office Buildings, Rock Cafes). I assume HL player but nice to have figure to know when no-bank because i was using the formula ITZ had in signature.

[CohibAA]

Best (legitimate) thread of the week.

+1 Excellent thread.

[daystardawg]

Of Course The No Bank Option Changes If U Have One Of The Items That Reduce The Bank Fee To 5% or Eliminates It Altogether

[mxz]

Your right since we were talking about (Palms, GCs, Hotels, Office Buildings, Rock Cafes). I assume HL player but nice to have figure to know when no-bank because i was using the formula ITZ had in signature.When in doubt - upgrade your Type A's and no-bank. Most low and mid level players don't stalk other players enough to warrant banking your cash.

Edit: just don't hit anyone's camper that looks like they have a clue and are willing to farm you.

[itzkakarot]

Of Course The No Bank Option Changes If U Have One Of The Items That Reduce The Bank Fee To 5% or Eliminates It Altogether
Doesn't eliminate it altogether, it just changes the formula. With a 5% bank fee, once you pass $3MM per hour you're wasting money by banking. You can only lose $150,000 every hour to attacks. $150,000 / 0.05 = $3,000,000


When in doubt - upgrade your Type A's and no-bank. Most low and mid level players don't stalk other players enough to warrant banking your cash.

Edit: just don't hit anyone's camper that looks like they have a clue and are willing to farm you.
+1. I'm all about no-banking. 10% loss on all income is just plain stupid if you're serious about building your econ. Before the 170s you're likely not going to be hit every 2 hours for a $300K loss. If you have decent gear and are above lvl 120 or so, you can also use Nico's bracketing strategy to get away from any big time gold spenders who would likely also farm you. That guide is here (Nico's Bracketing Strategy).

[AFed]

Of Course The No Bank Option Changes If U Have One Of The Items That Reduce The Bank Fee To 5%

It shifts...but then at a certain point it is still advisable to nobank

Edit: Itz beat me to it

[Swedevil]

Ok, so I keep hearing it's not advised to take Lofts and MT to level 10. If they are type A and the benefit is thee, why be so bashful about taking them all the way. While they are upgrading, you're still collecting from other buildings and saving for a NC Build/Upgrade(or now the pegoda)

[Daswi]

Ok, so I keep hearing it's not advised to take Lofts and MT to level 10. If they are type A and the benefit is thee, why be so bashful about taking them all the way. While they are upgrading, you're still collecting from other buildings and saving for a NC Build/Upgrade(or now the pegoda)

Seems reasonable to me.

[murf]

Ok, so I keep hearing it's not advised to take Lofts and MT to level 10. If they are type A and the benefit is thee, why be so bashful about taking them all the way. While they are upgrading, you're still collecting from other buildings and saving for a NC Build/Upgrade(or now the pegoda)

If you are level 76, it might be advisable to take them to L10. Before the Pagoda, I have been rotating my upgrades as such Nightclubs (currently L5 & 6), Upscale Club (both L4), then Lofts (both L7) and MTs (both L7). I've mixed a few others as well, but those are the big ones.

So, if it wasn't for Pagodas, my L79 account would be upgrading NC to L6, then Upscales to 5, then Lofts to 8, then MT's to 8 and whenever I saved enough to upgrade my NC to L7, I'll do so. Last few cycles, I haven't made it to upgrading my MT's.

If you have leveled up, then there becomes much better upgrades then Lofts and MTs (upgrades w/ both better ROI and shorter build times). On my L220 account, my Lofts are still only L8, because I have 20-30 upgrades that I prioritize over them. I have upgraded my MTs to 10 a long time ago on this account, when I was still adjusting my econ strategy.

[crash&burn]

yes it is a very informative thread....

[Swedevil]

If you are level 76, it might be advisable to take them to L10. Before the Pagoda, I have been rotating my upgrades as such Nightclubs (currently L5 & 6), Upscale Club (both L4), then Lofts (both L7) and MTs (both L7). I've mixed a few others as well, but those are the big ones.

So, if it wasn't for Pagodas, my L79 account would be upgrading NC to L6, then Upscales to 5, then Lofts to 8, then MT's to 8 and whenever I saved enough to upgrade my NC to L7, I'll do so. Last few cycles, I haven't made it to upgrading my MT's.

If you have leveled up, then there becomes much better upgrades then Lofts and MTs (upgrades w/ both better ROI and shorter build times). On my L220 account, my Lofts are still only L8, because I have 20-30 upgrades that I prioritize over them. I have upgraded my MTs to 10 a long time ago on this account, when I was still adjusting my econ strategy.

Actually, the level 76 account in my sig has every building I have upgraded to level 10 except pagodas and NC (level 1 on each of those) and before I get accused...it's an iOS, and I didn't even know about the forums or anything like that until after he made level 75 and I pulled him away to camp.

I was more referring to my level 51 account for which I am trying to build the economy up. I guess using the ROI is a good idea. I've just always bought 2 of the building, upgraded all the way and then moved on...lol

[murf]

Actually, the level 76 account in my sig has every building I have upgraded to level 10 except pagodas and NC (level 1 on each of those) and before I get accused...it's an iOS, and I didn't even know about the forums or anything like that until after he made level 75 and I pulled him away to camp.

I was more referring to my level 51 account for which I am trying to build the economy up. I guess using the ROI is a good idea. I've just always bought 2 of the building, upgraded all the way and then moved on...lol

That's one way to do it, lol...

Using ROI, and modifying it so that you aren't upgrading Pizza Parlors over Nightclubs b/c of it, will grow your income faster. I use $$/Hr increase, ROI and $$ Hr increase / hr of upgrade time as my 3 metrics to rank my next upgrade.

[murf]

Actually, the level 76 account in my sig has every building I have upgraded to level 10 except pagodas and NC (level 1 on each of those) and before I get accused...it's an iOS, and I didn't even know about the forums or anything like that until after he made level 75 and I pulled him away to camp.

I was more referring to my level 51 account for which I am trying to build the economy up. I guess using the ROI is a good idea. I've just always bought 2 of the building, upgraded all the way and then moved on...lol

And if you are only L51, then you are going to be rotating NC, Lofts and MTs along with some lesser buildings, not sure what's available, Dominicans, Beachsides, etc....

[itzkakarot]

Swedevil, your economy will grow the fastest if you center the plan around getting both your NCs to 10. The sooner that happens, the better, and while you're saving for the next NC you should only choose to upgrade buildings that expedite your path to lvl 10 NCs. (Yes this is possible)

So along the way to lvl 10 NCs, you can and should get your Lofts and MTs both to 10. They're cheap upgrades that take a long time to complete (read: time to save) while still yielding a decent income boost. It's not best to just level up 1 building, as the value gained goes down each lvl. Instead you should rotate between the different buildings.

If you're not using my hood planner sheet already, I'd highly recommend it. Not just to toot my horn but it certainly will help you as it helped me - I was able to cut months out of my lvl 10 NC plan.

Here's a small tutorial to get you started:

Make a copy of my hood planner from my sig (File > Make a Copy. You'll need a Google acct)
Fill out the orange fields in the My Hood tab with your relevant info
On the Planning tab, fill it out with just NC upgrades, both buildings from 1 (or whatever lvl they're at currently) to 10
Take a gander at the last column in the last row of data to see your total "Remaining Days to Complete".... Once you awake after passing out, get up and proceed to the next step. ;)
Make a copy of that sheet, and title it something like "NC Baseline".
Now update the original Planning sheet by inserting other building upgrades in between the NCs (this will require you to Insert a row, and copy/paste an existing row into the blank space, then changing the building and lvl). Your goal should to keep column Q: "Days to save (following build order)" at 0.00, or as close as possible, even for the NC upgrades.


Step 6 is the trickiest part of the whole ordeal. You have to make smart decisions about which buildings to upgrade, while keeping "Days to Save" as close to zero, and while checking the final "Remaining Days to Complete" once in a while and comparing it to your NC baseline time.


Clear as mud?

[Swedevil]

Swedevil, your economy will grow the fastest if you center the plan around getting both your NCs to 10. The sooner that happens, the better, and while you're saving for the next NC you should only choose to upgrade buildings that expedite your path to lvl 10 NCs. (Yes this is possible)

So along the way to lvl 10 NCs, you can and should get your Lofts and MTs both to 10. They're cheap upgrades that take a long time to complete (read: time to save) while still yielding a decent income boost. It's not best to just level up 1 building, as the value gained goes down each lvl. Instead you should rotate between the different buildings.

If you're not using my hood planner sheet already, I'd highly recommend it. Not just to toot my horn but it certainly will help you as it helped me - I was able to cut months out of my lvl 10 NC plan.

Here's a small tutorial to get you started:

Make a copy of my hood planner from my sig (File > Make a Copy. You'll need a Google acct)
Fill out the orange fields in the My Hood tab with your relevant info
On the Planning tab, fill it out with just NC upgrades, both buildings from 1 (or whatever lvl they're at currently) to 10
Take a gander at the last column in the last row of data to see your total "Remaining Days to Complete".... Once you awake after passing out, get up and proceed to the next step. ;)
Make a copy of that sheet, and title it something like "NC Baseline".
Now update the original Planning sheet by inserting other building upgrades in between the NCs (this will require you to Insert a row, and copy/paste an existing row into the blank space, then changing the building and lvl). Your goal should to keep column Q: "Days to save (following build order)" at 0.00, or as close as possible, even for the NC upgrades.


Step 6 is the trickiest part of the whole ordeal. You have to make smart decisions about which buildings to upgrade, while keeping "Days to Save" as close to zero, and while checking the final "Remaining Days to Complete" once in a while and comparing it to your NC baseline time.


Clear as mud?

Thanks for that. I'll get started on that tonight..

[daystardawg]

It shifts...but then at a certain point it is still advisable to nobank

Edit: Itz beat me to itoh, and i'm level 228, so don't i get hit more than ten times? i lost 480k to one attacker the other day in one series of attacks. i had just collected my NCs and got attacked while i had $8M on me. if i can lose $500k every 2 hours, thats $12M a day potentially isn't it? or am i messing up somewhere?

[murf]

oh, and i'm level 228, so don't i get hit more than ten times? i lost 480k to one attacker the other day in one series of attacks. i had just collected my NCs and got attacked while i had $8M on me. if i can lose $500k every 2 hours, thats $12M a day potentially isn't it? or am i messing up somewhere?

Not missing anything (except it's $6M a day)...you can get attacked 10x's every 2 hours up to L200, then 12x's from 201-210, etc...up to 20x's from 241-on.

[mxz]

The reason my MTs and Lofts won't go to 10 is because they're a waste of money on the way to higher NCs. The break even is far enough away and the gained income isn't meaningfully adding to the NC10 save.

[Protoss_General]

I already have a pair of level 10 NCs.

[minji976]

While we are on this topic, what's your opionion on no banking during syndicate battle events, given a low level strong guy who does not have to worry about banking at all during non-wartime?

[bald zeemer]

If your syndicate has many higher level players, and your stats are strong enough to stave off lower-stat players then go for it. Ideally you'd want to spend your cash on a big upgrade/build/donation just prior to kick-off, and assess your losses after a couple of battles, then go from there.

In the end, no sensible person will give up IP points in order to steal $30k cash at 6.25 gold a pop.

[Mike Hunt]

Thank you - I was confused what Type A and B referred to as people posted. Greatly appreciated !!

[piratehtd]

While we are on this topic, what's your opionion on no banking during syndicate battle events, given a low level strong guy who does not have to worry about banking at all during non-wartime?

I have been no banking the last 2 events (the first one i started the battle with a huge upgrade so I didn't have any left). During Market Plaza, I had 128m. In one battle someone liked my cash and my losses went from 5 to 143. I decided to keep it on me cause we had level 206 and 199 players with lower def and figured if I take attacks away from them then they'd get less points from our syn. I ended up losing 148 battles so I was well under the 400 losses I would've had to take to make banking worth it. During Packer Heights, I went into it saving for NC level 5 with 260m. I only ended up with 17 losses the whole event and most of those were from scouting I did.

[itzkakarot]

The reason my MTs and Lofts won't go to 10 is because they're a waste of money on the way to higher NCs. The break even is far enough away and the gained income isn't meaningfully adding to the NC10 save.
Interesting, mxz. It could have been the sheer coincidental timing of my income + current building levels, but I ran through several scenarios and getting my lofts and MTs to 10 from their 6-7 range actually pulled in my NC lvl 10 plan. Everyone's mileage varies, I suppose.

[Dipstik]

Man... you guys think a LOT about building upgrades!

#jealoussmug

[cooch]

Guys great thread and first one that has been constructive and not ripped apart by the haters etc of the forum. Congrats.

On non-banking during Wars: If you happen to be a sweet spot victim, meaning you generate a lot of IP for at least 1/2 syn attacking you and 30K/hit in cash you'll be drained pretty quickly. We come across several every war where they are in lvl 150-215 with not so great stats. Otherwise not banking beyond DL makes sense.

[bald zeemer]

I have been no banking the last 2 events (the first one i started the battle with a huge upgrade so I didn't have any left). During Market Plaza, I had 128m. In one battle someone liked my cash and my losses went from 5 to 143. I decided to keep it on me cause we had level 206 and 199 players with lower def and figured if I take attacks away from them then they'd get less points from our syn. I ended up losing 148 battles so I was well under the 400 losses I would've had to take to make banking worth it. During Packer Heights, I went into it saving for NC level 5 with 260m. I only ended up with 17 losses the whole event and most of those were from scouting I did.

You've just got to keep an eye out on who you're matched against. I know one time about 6-7 people took PB for between $3-10m each during a single battle.

[murf]

You've just got to keep an eye out on who you're matched against. I know one time about 6-7 people took PB for between $3-10m each during a single battle.

This is absolutely true...I was banking, but against Fight Club I lost a $100,000+ just while collecting my 24hrs...I couldn't bank fast enough...ugh