Suddenly lots of 56 to 60 member guilds

[spyglassk]

Hi guys,

All of sudden there seem to a large number of 56+ member guilds. I just saw a 60 member guild and others are advertising non stop on my and my guild members walls to join up. Some of these at the last war were only 40 member guilds. So what gives I wonder?

This war for Dwarven Mines will be interesting. Me and my fellow members of my 42 person guild will try and do as well as we can but you have to wonder how one matches up with these suddenly supercharged guilds.

[Engineer951]

Gems, gems, gems. I've spent almost $1000 in the past 2 months

[spyglassk]

Hmm. I did the math on that and realised that $1000 will only buy one 10 mil gold. I guess doing some rough calcs, then there are loads of guilds spending close to half a million of real world money to buy guild upgrades between the last war and this one.

Wow don't think we can keep up with that kind of spending.

[The_Legend_Shall_Live_On]

Report them and cross your fingers something gets done before the war. If you can, take a screen shot of each and attach to the report. Best you can do at this point.

[Web323]

I doubt they would spend money on fake cash and would more than likely purchase gems.

[Valid or]

Spending real money for gold...not something I would do...but there are a lot of people who like shortcuts.

[Mr Painite]

No one is buying 3.15 billion gold (the amount needed to go from 56 to 60 members). Period.

There is 1 legitimate guild at 58 members and 0 at 60 members.

[IN3RTI@]

Because GREE don't care about gold h*cki*g anymore.
Watch out this war, the honour H's are gonna have seriously inflated stats but what is soon to come will be worse. Time to put your pennies back in your pocket.

[IN3RTI@]

I've been watching things closely over the past 5 months... the H's will soon take over and this game will die a horrible death because GREE failed to properly monitor these individuals.

As im sure many of you here know, many top KA players have spotted more hackers that GREEs team, so that's a worry. The sad thing is although gold H's will only benefit a players ability to upgrade high cost buildings, honour H's and the little known Gem H's, will snuff the life out of this game very quickly. There are a few who are already here...auction box events are now dead, why hackers can do there will make you think twice about ever goin for top spot again, and although guild wars are relatively safe... The H's have almost won on that front as well. We'll soon see what happens during this next war and in the aftermath.

Anyone here who use to play Storm8 will know what I'm talking about.

[Engineer951]

Dude, lol, I wasn't saying that people spent millions of real cash. I was just joking. It sux that there's hackers, it sux that there's poverty, it sux that my girl won't give me a bj if I haven't showered within 3 hours, lol. It's a game, enjoy it, try ur best, be happy with ur place. We almost got top 400, super fun

[Vachau]

The most difficult part of this game is to be honest. There are so many guilds out there that are full of hackers. Everyone else just has to do the best they can within the honor system.

[procsyzarc]

I had someone post on my wall saying "join my guild we have all bonuses unlocked" I replied saying "so you are hackers then?" to which I got the reply "everyone hacks, just look at Fun and RK do you really think they spend $1000's of dollars on this game"

[IN3RTI@]

The game is dead...save your money peeps! I know people who have hacked gems now ;)
Look out next war

[Timbathia]

The game is dead...save your money peeps! I know people who have hacked gems now ;)
Look out next war

And obviously you have reported them to Gree, right?

[IN3RTI@]

And obviously you have reported them to Gree, right?

No...why wld I do that? People need to get out while they can.

[IN3RTI@]

Hackers will simply create a new account once they have been compromised. The thing is, no one will know as they look like gem buyers now.

Go read up on Storm8. It's all over. It's time to go back to buying a game once off then enjoying it as entertainment. Rather than cotinuing to pay for every event. We've all been ripped off for too long.

[Kjctnorris]

"The Bigger Weezy", that's awesome lol.

[Winstrol]

Hackers will simply create a new account once they have been compromised. The thing is, no one will know as they look like gem buyers now.

Go read up on Storm8. It's all over. It's time to go back to buying a game once off then enjoying it as entertainment. Rather than cotinuing to pay for every event. We've all been ripped off for too long.

You're already ripped off :D and gold comes from monster in game , so that's not hacked .

[Liethe]

Hackers will simply create a new account once they have been compromised. The thing is, no one will know as they look like gem buyers now.

Go read up on Storm8. It's all over. It's time to go back to buying a game once off then enjoying it as entertainment. Rather than cotinuing to pay for every event. We've all been ripped off for too

A device ban would take care of that, i for one thing and my entire guild decided to stop spending gems on war
Nothing so far seems to be done vs hacker guilds.
If gree wants this game to stay bringing in cash they should deal with that first and foremost and let people here know what is being done
Otherwise more and more players will decide to quit i am close to that point but i rather see some real action taken and some reports of what is being done vs hackerguilds by gree.....

[Nirmala]

And I wonder if other gem spenders that do not read this forum will not spend their gems either.
The way I see it, nobody will stick to this boycott for longer than a couple of hours. Some guilds will see others (top guilds) not spending and try to utilise it to get themselves higher. Then the top guilds will get mad and spend to overtake them and get the top position back. So much for a boycott huh..
LOL

[Liethe]

And I wonder if other gem spenders that do not read this forum will not spend their gems either.
The way I see it, nobody will stick to this boycott for longer than a couple of hours. Some guilds will see others (top guilds) not spending and try to utilise it to get themselves higher. Then the top guilds will get mad and spend to overtake them and get the top position back. So much for a boycott huh..
LOL

If you have remarks, which you are entiitled to have, could you be as good to post also your idea of a solution
Nothing is easier then to burn something upfront,
I give you an example: you are reading this forum please post it to other players and guilds i would suggest because you do have a good point that not all read this forum but ingame messages are likely to be read

[Shinazueli]

There have been boycotts in the past. They are never effective, because Gree doesn't just own KA. There's hundreds of games in their portfolio. Even if every single user in the game stopped spending, they wouldn't bat an eye. They'd just close the game, shut down its servers, lay off the employees working on it, and develop another very similar game. (Which is what they just did to 6 of their underperforming games, from viewing their public quarterly earnings report. Look at the section labelled "extraordinary write off" and read between the lines.)

It's like if one of the stars in the sky said, "Earth, if you don't orbit closer to me, I'm not giving you my light at night."

All we can do is suffer and not give them our money. But don't expect them to change anything.

The reason the fixes come so slowly is because a) this isn't their only game, so they aren't going to create custom code for it. They are going to create generic code that takes longer but works on multiple games. And b) if the fix doesn't generate revenue directly, it's extremely low priority (despite whatever they pay the forum mods to say). This includes fixing the blatant hacks.

TL: DR They have all the power, and it's virtually impossible to hold them accountable without a Gree-game wide boycott. Like, all of them. And using the Gree controlled and moderated forums to coordinate what constitutes attacks on their business isn't all that bright.

[Nirmala]

IF the boycott is succeed, which parties have the most benefit?
These parties felt unfair because hackers make them spend more to hold a position, and on the other hand hackers didn't spend a dime (spent a little) to receive close to or similar rewards. So, if the revolution is succeed, they just have to pay less to secure the position.

IF the revolution is succeed, will the game direction become more strategical?
I dont think so. Any guild which has the most gems wins. As simple as that.
But not as many as if there are hackers though...

Do you think hackers have a huge impact on light spenders or free player?
I don't think so. they don't care what top spenders and hackers receive as rewards. They just care about the reward they should invest and take it.

What is this revolution trying to save? the game or the top guilds?
This one I leave the answer to you.

And... you can deduce whether GREE will remove hackers or not...

[Xiaoge99]

I can't understand what are you talking about,but it sounds not bad!

[Nirmala]

I can't understand what are you talking about,but it sounds not bad!

Thank you, I guess..

[Kjctnorris]

Every large corporation has many tiers of management. While the CEO of GREE probably couldn't care less if KA dissolved, I'd imagine their are employees/managers who are concerned with and are responsible for meeting a certain end state with KA profitability. These personnel likely have some influence on how the game evolves; this is the target audience for a boycott.

Will a boycott work? I don't believe it will. Like most theories involving people, the theory sounds great but doesn't factor in human nature. In this instance, I think there will be too many who won't commit to an all out boycott which will have a ripple effect that causes others to continue spending like they always have.

[Liethe]

As i posted in another tread who mysteriously got removed,
you can make Any excuse for not participating in a abstinence, point is that if you do not start somewhere for sure nothing will change, and i like to have discussion and action being taken before i toss the towel in the ring.
I, and i am no small one, are going to do as is proposed in ingame Posts
We can come up with Any reason why things wont work, if we all would think and act this way we would still be living in caves hoping for fire to spontaniously start.

To prevent this will be deleted aswell i think some other approach may work:
I hear only the silly same arguments that kept unions from forming for years and years, bosses are to rich they will seek another product, it wont have an impact at all, they just going to lay off people.
But do remember this is all about money and in these times exactly that has become a rare comodity......

To bad i do not play in a guild that is called united we stand together we pay....

[LordB]

saying that a large company won't care about customers boycotting one of its divisions is stupid. If customers boycotted one walmart supermarket, you think that walmart would do nothing.

No, they would do what they believed to be the more beneficial to earnings out of addressing the customers' concerns and shutting down the store

Here however I don't believe the boycott will work. Too many people in the top 2 guilds use this game as compensation for daddy not loving them enough as a child.

But I'm going to score zero CPs whatever happens :-)

[LordB]

Damn, I'm our guild guardian :-(

I just realised that my glorious zero CPs copy book will be blotted by people hitting me and losing

I shall however not strike a single attack. I'm going to change my name to Ghandi for this war. If you ever find yourself up against a GG called Ghandi, just think twice before attacking him. He is a pacist. She is a pregnant student sitting on the ground in Tienamen square. Are you really going to drive your tank over her? Shame on you if so!

[Ed_Radley]

I agree with the boycott only truly working if you combine it with the other games. It needs to start today with the MW/CC war that overlaps. If nobody buys the 40% off in MW and only uses the free gold in CC, then we will make progress and stick the nail in with ours at Darkhome. The message in game about the boycott should find its way to the wall of each top 100 guild since that's where the majority of the gems are being used. The useage drastically drops after even the top 50 since lower than that, the prizes aren't worth the money. My whole guild believes ltq's are a much better investment than wars for gems since there it's only pvp for top prizes in box events.

More than anything, we need to be looking for guilds that place higher this time that usually don't and if we run up against one of those guilds, look at their monsters. Don't just battle them but write down all names and levels. Find people you know who are that level to search them out and see specifically their honor units. More than 20-30 of the abominations or whatever the most expensive one is should go up as a red flag if they have ANY other honor units. Nobody can get so lucky in the scratch card that they win the honor grand prize multiple times. When you find these people, report them if you feel it deserves to be looked into. That's really the only way to deal with them.

[Kusa]

With all the false hacking reports it is a no wonder gree takes so long I've been reported prob 20-30 times for my 0 iph and stats way over my level.


Gree gets way to many false ones way to many dumb stupid question that can be answered here in 5 mins it's a no wonder hackers run rampant.

[Red Panda]

Agreed, Kusa. It's easy to get pegged as a "hacker" when you take the time to raid responsibly as your source of income - I can only imagine how many times Gree has had to explore my profile with the amount of threats that show up on my wall about "math not adding up."

[Xiaoge99]

I doubt GREE employed a lot people to do something.....

[uanmi]

yes, we're also recruiting but with a different approach. Our guild is top 750 and looking for a similar level guild to join us. Our guild is called United Monster Force and id is 649189477

to merge a guild with our guild is a way for another non-cash spending guild to enjoy the wars.

[klevito]

I admire the effort for boycot, but i find it a silly to say the least.
Whoever initiated and followed up on it are people looking for a bit of drama in the game. Something big, something "meaningful"

It makes me giggle because of the many things that are..... "wrong" with this boycot.

1- Why, why, why?

"we"....."conference call"..... "demand"......"blah, blah, blah."
i don't know who these initiators are or what do they smoke but certainly they seem to have convinced themselves they are on the path to righteousness.
As i have said in another post, it's sad and very, very low to use your own addiction and urge to "own pixels" and turn it into a "revolution"
I also find it very silly (although very expected) of those who have no clue but follow because they want to be in what they wrongly believe is a game changing movement.

This boycot thing is nothing but:

- addicts whose lives are on the verge of collapse because
a) they sleep few hours during the 3 day battle event and is exhausting
b) their families, wives or loved ones are noticing this "soul and mind" absence during three days even though physically they are there
c) their work is piling up and after three wars, the addiction is starting to have an impact

The blame game

Who is to blame?
Someone else of course. Even better if it's a money-earning corporate. It will be more believable and gather more followers
Like the guy who smoked since 13 yrs old and got lung-cancer. Marlboro was to blame for it.

Because, the last thing these ""boycoters" can do is "not to be first or have it all"
So, for as long as gree will offer a unit to be earned, the addicts will have no choice but to go for it at all costs.
They can not stop, they can not just let it go, they want it.
So, instead of themselves stoping to spend more money and time than they have, they blame gree for introducing more units that they have time for.

Pathetic and ridiculous.

[steve_r]

Klevito, you don't think this game would be better with wars spread out more? Seems to me a mass boycott aims to achieve this by effectively ignoring the next war. (It would work even better if Fun was willing to give up #1.)

It doesn't have to be just take it or leave it. We can push back.

[klevito]

Hi steve

Maybe i think the game would be better with wars spread out more. But that doesn't justify a boycot.

I think too much fast food is not good for health.
Let's rally and boycot mcdonalds and burger king and pizza chains to close shop 5 days/week. I can not resist the temptation to consume them, so i blame the company for leaving the restaurants open every day.
And i call on every one to stop eating pizza and burger till they meet our demands.
pftttt........

Gree is a brand. KA is a product.
You don't like the product? -----> find a better one.
As simple as that. What has a boycot got to do with it?

Does that sound right to you?

[Liethe]

Hi steve

Maybe i think the game would be better with wars spread out more. But that doesn't justify a boycot.

I think too much fast food is not good for health.
Let's rally and boycot mcdonalds and burger king and pizza chains to close shop 5 days/week. I can not resist the temptation to consume them, so i blame the company for leaving the restaurants open every day.
And i call on every one to stop eating pizza and burger till they meet our demands.
pftttt........

Gree is a brand. KA is a product.
You don't like the product? -----> find a better one.
As simple as that. What has a boycot got to do with it?

Does that sound right to you?

This product tells you that cheating is not allowed and i like to see something done about hacker guilds
All i hear from you is excuses and reasons that are just some sort of a smoke screen to the real issue here
In your way of expressing things: i buy and they dont deliver, i should then buy again at another company? or should i complain and try to use the means i have to put pressure....
I could also say in your line of thinking that those who oppose have at least a fishy smell around them but i am not in any way trying to insult
Needless to say i am in on this abstinence

[Shinazueli]

Hi steve

Maybe i think the game would be better with wars spread out more. But that doesn't justify a boycot.

I think too much fast food is not good for health.
Let's rally and boycot mcdonalds and burger king and pizza chains to close shop 5 days/week. I can not resist the temptation to consume them, so i blame the company for leaving the restaurants open every day.
And i call on every one to stop eating pizza and burger till they meet our demands.
pftttt........

Gree is a brand. KA is a product.
You don't like the product? -----> find a better one.
As simple as that. What has a boycot got to do with it?

Does that sound right to you?

If McD's made you pay for your McTrolly Meal, but the guy next to you got his McHacker fries for free, you'd be pretty mad, too. Especially if McD's said "this is our top priority" and then does Jack and his friend Feces about it for months.

Or if Burger King has reports of shake theft by the millions and turns a blind eye because that makes their high rollers pay more for their nuggets. There'd be protesters with signs.

Or, my absolute favorite, you play baseball, and your opponents team has dudes with 18 inch necks popping 'roids. The gaming commission says "it's against our policy to release private information on those lying, cheating, pieces of utter dog poo."

Hint : this policy by itself is more unpopular than all other Gree decisions combined. For good reason.

[Kusa]

I could list hundreds of multi million game company's that can't stop hackers 100% do you honestly belive a cell phone game company will do any better.

Fix one way and people will spend thousands of hours reverse engineering clients to find a new way.

[glitters]

Gree has a monopoly with this game. Combine that with the addicted state of many players. That's why it's hard for them to quit and move on.

[itsaklayton]

To Glitters. Do I need this game to function? Do I use this game as a crutch in my life? Do I place this game before food on the table, the roof over my head, the car I drive or the love I pour out to my family and friends? Is this game the only thing I think about from waking to sleeping? No I do not and it is not. Do you? I do like this game and I play as I see fit. Who are you to judge Sparkle. You are not my God, or anyone else's. Here is the definition of addiction for your reference. True addiction is not to be laughed at and the word should not be bandied about.
Definition of ADDICTION>1. : the quality or state of being addicted 2. : compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful>.

[Naughty Angel]

Has everyone seen the message about the boycott on gems. I have a very hard time believing the top guilds would risk losing their rank after all that time and money. I think its a hoax. What do you all think?

[itsaklayton]

It is not a hoax and it is wider than the top ten.

[Naughty Angel]

It is not a hoax and it is wider than the top ten.

I am an officer from Fire & Blood. We placed 65 in the last battle. We just want to be sure on this issue. Please advise.
So no one will use gems in the next war?? I am ok with that if no one else does as well. It wouldn't be fair if the top 100 guilds don't use them and the lower ones decide to take the opportunity to get ahead. When will we know for sure? Thanks for your help!!!!

[glitters]

To Glitters. Do I need this game to function? Do I use this game as a crutch in my life? Do I place this game before food on the table, the roof over my head, the car I drive or the love I pour out to my family and friends? Is this game the only thing I think about from waking to sleeping? No I do not and it is not. Do you? I do like this game and I play as I see fit. Who are you to judge Sparkle. You are not my God, or anyone else's. Here is the definition of addiction for your reference. True addiction is not to be laughed at and the word should not be bandied about.
Definition of ADDICTION>1. : the quality or state of being addicted 2. : compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful>.

Was my post even directed at you specifically? World revolves around you, yes? Or at least that's what you think.

Words are meaningless while actions are a significant indicator. If these people weren't addicted, they would have quit already and would not bother with a lost cause.

Your definition of "addiction" is very narrow by the way. Be more adventurous and you'll find out objects of addictions are certainly not limited to harmful substances.

[flamingdragon]

gree does nothing, they get no money

[flamingdragon]

our great members are gone from this game, its cause gree chases them away saying," we got money now go away"
gree i am sorry i am doing this but you are not acting

[flamingdragon]

just telling gree to get things better and they may grow again
its just they don't understand, i play from time to time but its rare

[Liethe]

It is not a hoax and it is wider than the top ten.

It has gone far beyond top ten and i dont give a rats behind anymore about ranking. Come what may i am going to stick to my word!

[glitters]

KA is expendable. Gree literally has hundreds of games, some of which have just reached the end of their shelf-life and are being replaced by new ones. It's a reality I assure you.

[Liethe]

KA is expendable. Gree literally has hundreds of games, some of which have just reached the end of their shelf-life and are being replaced by new ones. It's a reality I assure you.

Would it be an idea to make a top 50 on excuses?
And pls tell me why do you post excuses and reasons why it wont work in the first place?
I can come up with a few reasons but i wont flame
And i certainly dont want to accuse anyone trying to avoid the whole thing being a possible cheater do not get me wrong but unless you are getting profit from gree or are part of it i cannot imagine why else people keep posting the why it wont works

[glitters]

^ Not sure what you're trying to ask.

[Liethe]

^ Not sure what you're trying to ask.

Well not asking at you in person, but as i noticed you got an open mind i took the liberty to take your post with a reason to make my point.....
And i am trying very hard not to get this tread deleted and i try to avoid getting banned

[alizainal]

My guild WILL use gems on the next war. If the top guilds wanna refrain from using gem, we thank them.
It'll be less gem needed to be on top then.

[mee notyou]

My guild WILL use gems on the next war. If the top guilds wanna refrain from using gem, we thank them.
It'll be less gem needed to be on top then.

And what guild are you?? I wouldn't be surprised to learn your guild has 60 members and all bonuses~

[mee notyou]

I had someone post on my wall saying "join my guild we have all bonuses unlocked" I replied saying "so you are hackers then?" to which I got the reply "everyone hacks, just look at Fun and RK do you really think they spend $1000's of dollars on this game"

Please tell me you took a screen shot and reported them. Doubt it will matter much, but please tell me you did

[alizainal]

And what guild are you?? I wouldn't be surprised to learn your guild has 60 members and all bonuses~

And your guild doesn't? pity..

[Liethe]

And your guild doesn't? pity..

As any other honest one.......
Would you be as kind to post what guild you are in that has 60 members and all bonusses unlocked? If all is legal you would have no objections, right?


My old man used to say "if it works for you, don't fix it".
Later he said "if you profit from something and it needs your silence to keep the profit flowing, keep your mouth shut".

Or is this in all your way of thinking?

[Dad]

And your guild doesn't? pity..
Since you are so proud of your 60 members guild, you went thru the trouble to post here, do tell us your guild's name?

[alizainal]

No, I wont tell you my guild's name. Not because I'm afraid that you will accuse us to be a hacker's guild and report us to GREE. It's just we want it to be a surprise that when the war starts, we will be on top and we WILL use gem. LEGIT gems.
So for you top guilds, DO boycott. Or better, QUIT the game. So we can play more strategically, or use less gems.

[Dexter Morgan]

Aww, you really think you have a chance!!! You go for it little fella!!!

[mee notyou]

Aww, you really think you have a chance!!! You go for it little fella!!!

Said a military officer to an Ambassador when asked about a solution to a political problem - "Mr Ambassador, I am the wrong person to ask. I personally believe it is easier to kill them than kiss their asses".

[alizainal]

Aww, you really think you have a chance!!! You go for it little fella!!!

What, No boycott from FUN?
I thought you guys have the loudest voice in this "revolution"..

[Dexter Morgan]

What, No boycott from FUN?
I thought you guys have the loudest voice in this "revolution"..

You took what I said wrong. We will see how it all plays out this weekend. Didn't work too well in cc

[Liethe]

No, I wont tell you my guild's name. Not because I'm afraid that you will accuse us to be a hacker's guild and report us to GREE. It's just we want it to be a surprise that when the war starts, we will be on top and we WILL use gem. LEGIT gems.
So for you top guilds, DO boycott. Or better, QUIT the game. So we can play more strategically, or use less gems.

Why does the hiding of your name doesnt come as a surprise......i think support has some overtime comming up 👀

[IN3RTI@]

Some interesting news just in. A very sneaky player has just recently joined RK. Could turn out bad for them if GREE are doing what I think they are doing.

[klevito]

Some interesting news just in. A very sneaky player has just recently joined RK. Could turn out bad for them if GREE are doing what I think they are doing.

Sounds very secretive. :)
What do you think Gree are doing?
Since you posted here, shall i assume RK is somehow involved in some sort of improper activities?

[Johan -]

Sounds very secretive. :)
What do you think Gree are doing?
Since you posted here, shall i assume RK is somehow involved in some sort of improper activities?

That is the latest news I received on my wall ...:) even some names are mentioned in the message .....seems 1 of their members had within 1 hour suddenly 36 mill. in his account.. what of course went to their guild bank..

[IN3RTI@]

No...that was gold that was accounted, via GREE of the gold bonus program and is a different player.
I'm talking about a new member in RK that's being watched for...well can't say it here as ill be banned, but all I can say is, it's going to be interesting. I hope they are willing to take the risk lol

[procsyzarc]

What, No boycott from FUN?
I thought you guys have the loudest voice in this "revolution"..

If everyone else boycotts or at least reduces then by default we would be too since the amount needed would be less.
I have said this in other threads but will say it again, the first place team isnt the one who decides how many points they will score it is the second placed team that decides.


Look at what happened in CC they did well for a day, but then the reality of some new guilds taking number 2 and 3 spots kicked in and the old number 2 and three teams scored 20m each the next day.

[DragCro]

No, I wont tell you my guild's name. Not because I'm afraid that you will accuse us to be a hacker's guild and report us to GREE. It's just we want it to be a surprise that when the war starts, we will be on top and we WILL use gem. LEGIT gems.
So for you top guilds, DO boycott. Or better, QUIT the game. So we can play more strategically, or use less gems.you troll!! After one ban you open another account here,hope you get fast ipn ban so you can spair us your wisdom

[alizainal]

Boo hoo. Players come and go. Life goes on. Get over it.



We asked for pause between events as limited time quests and we got 2 limited time quest at same time runing,we asked about once a month war event, we got every 11 days new war event,event after event..
And with this tempo even the most dedicated players can not keep up.


If you can't keep up, may be you should find other game that suit your tempo.
I like it the way it is

[DragCro]

Boo hoo. Players come and go. Life goes on. Get over it.



If you can't keep up, may be you should find other game that suit your tempo.
I like it the way it isas i see you are not a people person so start playing tetris,that is a game for you

[alizainal]

And you can play angry birds. You can adjust your tempo playing that game.

[DragCro]

And you can play angry birds. You can adjust your tempo playing that game.thanks for you wisdom mate,im smarter now speaking with you

[alizainal]

You're welcome my young apprentice. Now, go clean the dojo..

[alizainal]

you troll!! After one ban you open another account here,hope you get fast ipn ban so you can spair us your wisdom

Dude, I was never banned.

[DragCro]

You're welcome my young apprentice. Now, go clean the dojo..sorry i dont understand troll language

[emcee]

For some point of reference; the least amount of gold required to unlock Guild Increase 4 is 900 million gold. This requires 30 bonuses unlock which excludes the 3 most expensive last health regen and 2 last casualty decrease or 4/1 combo.
52 guild (or first guild bonus increase 4) = 60 mil
54 guild (or 2nd guild bonus increase 4) = 144 mil
56 guild (or 3rd guild bonus increase 4) = 400 mil
58 guild (or 4th guild bonus increase 4) = 1 billion
60 guild (or 5th guild bonus increase 4) = 2.4 billion

So the minimum spend to get to 56 member guild is 1.504 billion gold. In my opinion no team has achieved this legitimately without a direct hack or farming gold hack accounts to make things appear less obvious.

I will also wager most 56 member guilds have health regen 4th bonus unlocked which is an additional 504 million and if the last one is unlocked then add another 900 million.

So its plain to me which 56 plus member teams have capitalized on direct or indirect hacks.

[DragCro]

For some point of reference; the least amount of gold required to unlock Guild Increase 4 is 900 million gold. This requires 30 bonuses unlock which excludes the 3 most expensive last health regen and 2 last casualty decrease or 4/1 combo.
52 guild (or first guild bonus increase 4) = 60 mil
54 guild (or 2nd guild bonus increase 4) = 144 mil
56 guild (or 3rd guild bonus increase 4) = 400 mil
58 guild (or 4th guild bonus increase 4) = 1 billion
60 guild (or 5th guild bonus increase 4) = 2.4 billion

So the minimum spend to get to 56 member guild is 1.504 billion gold. In my opinion no team has achieved this legitimately without a direct hack or farming gold hack accounts to make things appear less obvious.

I will also wager most 56 member guilds have health regen 4th bonus unlocked which is an additional 504 million and if the last one is unlocked then add another 900 million.

So its plain to me which 56 plus member teams have capitalized on direct or indirect hacks.i agree with you Emcee on this..

[LordB]

If "fun" aren't big enough to let somebody else take the #1 slot this weekend, and "rk" aren't big enough to give away #2, then they both forfeit any high ground to carry on whining on this forum about hackers or GREE's shoddy customer support

[Johan -]

For some point of reference; the least amount of gold required to unlock Guild Increase 4 is 900 million gold. This requires 30 bonuses unlock which excludes the 3 most expensive last health regen and 2 last casualty decrease or 4/1 combo.
52 guild (or first guild bonus increase 4) = 60 mil
54 guild (or 2nd guild bonus increase 4) = 144 mil
56 guild (or 3rd guild bonus increase 4) = 400 mil
58 guild (or 4th guild bonus increase 4) = 1 billion
60 guild (or 5th guild bonus increase 4) = 2.4 billion

So the minimum spend to get to 56 member guild is 1.54 billion gold. In my opinion no team has achieved this legitimately without a direct hack or farming gold hack accounts to make things appear less obvious.

I will also wager most 56 member guilds have health regen 4th bonus unlocked which is an additional 504 million and if the last one is unlocked then add another 900 million.

So its plain to me which 56 plus member teams have capitalized on direct or indirect hacks.

I fully agree, It's almost impossible that within 3 months time this kind of amount gold in a legal way can be donated into a GUILD.
I will not believe ( until proven different) that there are players who buy soo much gold with real money, just to unlock these bonuses.

Assuming that most players have a real job and playing KA in their free time, they just don't have enough time to raise that much.
Raiding & attacking rivals can bring maybe 300K a day * 3 months gives max. 1.35Billion gold, considering, they don't do building upgrades and don't buy walls etc.., don't get attacked etc..

If someone can prove different, they are free to post their donation log here on the forum, donation logs show more than enough to start with. I assume that the TOP10 GUILDS have mainly commited players who are in those guilds from when the Guilds were introduced.

Should be a small effort to post donation logs here on the forum ;)

[Sir Marcus]

This situation is why I've been saying that GREE doesn't enforce its own policy, and needs a new policy for guilds.

CJ, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this thread, because you've stated elsewhere that GREE employees have to take steps to actually catch cheaters in action, which slows down your response time to cheating tickets as well as your investigations.

However, it takes less than five minutes to spot guilds with bonuses unlocked that are mathematically impossible by legitimate means. There's even a guild roster to make that process easier. They are literally handing you the proof you require that they are cheating in a handy, easy to read format.

Why haven't your cheat-investigators put in this minimal effort to do their jobs?

[Dexter Morgan]

Great point sir Marcus. It's staring them in the face!!! Just need to open their eyes maybe ;)

[klevito]

I assume that the TOP10 GUILDS have mainly commited players who are in those guilds from when the Guilds were introduced.

Should be a small effort to post donation logs here on the forum ;)

Wrong.
In fact, i would be surprised if a top 10 guild has more than 25% of the original players from first war.
For most guilds, the dragon roost war was decisive. There was no top or bottom guild before the first war.
There was just guilds randomly assembled, guilds with leaders who had a bit of idea how to build up and guilds who came from MW or CC and were assembled with one clear thinking line, which is:
"I am someone who is willing to buy xx mountains of gems a week or month and i will look for someone with similar wallet" And that's how #1 and #2 guilds were millions of points from the rest of the guilds since the first hour of the first day of the first war.

What happened after the first war was easy. Having become the envy of most heavy gem spenders, the #1 and #2 guilds recruited the highest scores from the top 10 guilds which in return replaced them with high scorers of the top 25 and so on.
I have seen players leave a #15 guild for a #12 guild, even.
Because of that, a couple of guilds who used to be top 10 or 15, are now empty shells ranged top 40 or worse

Anyway, that's hardly the point since you are talking about guild donations.
I doubt anyone has ever thought, believed or suggested that 56 member bonus was unlocked with legitimate gold. Every single reader of this forums doesn't believe otherwise, so asking for donation logs to be posted it makes no sense. If we all already believe the money is not legit, who would you want to prove to with those logs?

[Dexter Morgan]

Fun has 58 unlocked. So you're saying we are cheaters?

[Johan -]

Of course if hacked gold came in their Guild, they probably had those hacker accounts temperarely in their Guild, just used them for quick donations and removed them out of their Guild.

Working like that the member donations will not be visual anymore in the donation log.
So together with a unlocked bonus screenshot, it gives an idea what's going on in a guild, normally spoken members who have donated more than 50~100 mill in a guild, aren't just removed out of a guild, we're not talking about a little bit of gold, but about huge amounts of gold.

I furthermore think that Guildmembers in the TOP5 are commited to their guild and not simply change guilds when there is a difference in rank position.

What to prove, that the TOP 5~10 have nothing to hide and that all these guilds are legit.
See it as learning ( good example) for the lower rank guilds :)

[klevito]

However, it takes less than five minutes to spot guilds with bonuses unlocked that are mathematically impossible by legitimate means. There's even a guild roster to make that process easier. They are literally handing you the proof you require that they are cheating in a handy, easy to read format.

May i respectfully point that it is naive (to say the least) to think or suggest that the problem and solution lies in the guilds with 56+ members.
I will even avoid to ridicule myself by suggesting that i know the in and outs of online gaming, scripting, developing and technical or financial side of them, but i know enough to tell you, it's not what you see and how you see it.

I will draw you some broad strokes and you pick up from there.

1- antihacking vs hacking
..... is a never-ending war. Since you don't seem to be well-advanced with computer programming, answer me please why the banks with multi-million worth of security systems are hurting from hacking?
read more here about online thefts (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-04/hackers-take-1-billion-a-year-from-company-accounts-banks-won-t-indemnify.html)
If you can answer that, you can answer your own question and concern regarding Gree, online games and hacking.

2- Not as simple.
..... to find and punish hackers. To you, a customer is no big deal if another innocent customer is banned. An innocent paying customer will go and demand Apple (i-tunes through which the gems are paid for) for a full refund and even make some fuss about it. It's bad business and image for Apple. Many of those and Apple may as well tell the little company called Gree, "No more business with you. Not worth it"

Gree, who needs a partner like Apple will make sure, even if it takes three weeks to check millions of logs that they don't punish an innocent gems buyer and will be careful even with a gem-buyer hacker.

Most hackers have a legit and a hacking account. a hacked account is disposable and can be "trashed" after feeding up a guild with billions of gold.
So, by investigating those guilds, contrary to what you believe you will not find any hacker account anymore.

Take into consideration that a small part of the gold donated into guild has come from gem-buying cutomers who will not appreciate any action that will make their contributions lost... (see the above paragraph regarding apple-gree business agreement)

......yeah, i think i will stop here before post gets longer than what it is already

[klevito]

Fun has 58 unlocked. So you're saying we are cheaters?
Sir Marcus was the latest poster to suggest so and you congratulated it for making a good point.
Which is it?
:)

[alizainal]

Fun has 58 unlocked. So you're saying we are cheaters?

What of raiding from so called "low iph but has billions of gold players". You can find them in lvl 200 with 10 allies or less.
I know for a fact that's one of the ways of how you guys got the gold to purchase those guild bonuses.

Oh, one more thing.
If I am not mistaken you had a member that you sacked before Dragon Roost. I believe she quit the game already. My question is; did you sack her because she can't afford your gem requirement or because you accused her being a hacker?
If the answer is the latter, how much gold did she donate? did you report her to GREE? did you report the gold she donated?

"Easy is to judge the mistakes of others, Difficult is to recognize your own mistakes"

[Dexter Morgan]

Sir Marcus was the latest poster to suggest so and you congratulated it for making a good point.
Which is it?
:)

You need to learn to read. Sir Marcus said nothing about guilds with a specific number of members being hackers.

[Dexter Morgan]

What of raiding from so called "low iph but has billions of gold players". You can find them in lvl 200 with 10 allies or less.
I know for a fact that's one of the ways of how you guys got the gold to purchase those guild bonuses.

Oh, one more thing.
If I am not mistaken you had a member that you sacked before Dragon Roost. I believe she quit the game already. My question is; did you sack her because she can't afford your gem requirement or because you accused her being a hacker?
If the answer is the latter, how much gold did she donate? did you report her to GREE? did you report the gold she donated?

"Easy is to judge the mistakes of others, Difficult is to recognize your own mistakes"

Ask rk how much we raid. This is the reason most fun members aren't on the forums, probably rk too. Too many morons throwing around baseless accusations. If you can't beat them make up lies to bring them down.

And is raiding gold from hacker accounts illegal? If so there are a lot of guilds that do it.

[alizainal]

And is raiding gold from hacker accounts illegal? If so there are a lot of guilds that would do it.

You admit raiding hackers then.
In other words, if the gold of hackers go to your guild, it's legit. But if it goes to other guilds, it's cheating.

[Dexter Morgan]

You admit raiding hackers then.
In other words, if the gold of hackers go to your guild, it's legit. But if it goes to other guilds, it's cheating.

Is English your first language? If it is clearly you're very stupid. You are the one inferring that raiding hackers is cheating. Raiding is part of the game is it not? So being that it is part of the game how can it be considered illegal or cheating? It can't

[klevito]

Hi Dexter Morgan.

There is a difference between "reading" and "understand a written text" and i assume you meant the later. Regardless, let's not get into further language skill investigation, would you not agree?

While it isn't guaranteed you will find or admit the below break-down to be logical, i shall make an attempt to "take your hand" and guide you through what it's referred to as "taken in context"

example:
A 'mistress' can be an adulterous woman or a female schoolteacher. It depends on the context in which the word is used.

So you say:

You need to learn to read. Sir Marcus said nothing about guilds with a specific number of members being hackers.

I know how to read, but you should take Sir marcus post in context of the posts it follows, which are (shortened):
It start with the title of the thread, to begin with and then with:


So the minimum spend to get to 56 member guild is 1.504 billion gold. In my opinion no team has achieved this legitimately without a direct hack or farming gold hack accounts to make things appear less obvious.
So its plain to me which 56 plus member teams have capitalized on direct or indirect hacks.

To which Johan, agrees:

I fully agree, It's almost impossible that within 3 months time this kind of amount gold in a legal way can be donated into a GUILD.
I will not believe ( until proven different) that there are players who buy soo much gold with real money, just to unlock these bonuses.

Please note how the above posts are focusing on 56+ members ---> cost of unlocking those bonuses ----> not legitimate gold
And to which, Sir marcus adds


However, it takes less than five minutes to spot guilds with bonuses unlocked that are mathematically impossible by legitimate means. There's even a guild roster to make that process easier. They are literally handing you the proof you require that they are cheating in a handy, easy to read format.

Taken in context, dear Morgan Sir Marcus is referring to the above text in bold


Great point sir Marcus. It's staring them in the face!!! Just need to open their eyes maybe ;)

Fun has 58 unlocked. So you're saying we are cheaters?

:)

[Dexter Morgan]

I see how you got mixed up. Rest assured my second comment was directed to those making the blanket statement that ANY guild with more than 56 members is cheating/hacking. Which simply isn't true.

[alizainal]

Is English your first language? If it is clearly you're very stupid. You are the one inferring that raiding hackers is cheating. Raiding is part of the game is it not? So being that it is part of the game how can it be considered illegal or cheating? It can't

I know you'll answer that raiding is legit. The question is how stupid hackers can be that they will level up to 200 and leave billions of gold laying around? I think those hacker accounts are there intentionally so players in those brackets who know how to find them can raid those accounts and make the gold legit. It's a genius way of money laundry in KA!
And who are the players in those brackets who knew which accounts to farm?
Of course you will deny and claim that those accounts are not yours or your guild mates'. You just happened to find them there.

[Dexter Morgan]

I know you'll answer that raiding is legit. The question is how stupid hackers can be that they will level up to 200 and leave billions of gold laying around? I think those hacker accounts are there intentionally so players in those brackets who know how to find them can raid those accounts and make the gold legit. It's a genius way of money laundry in KA!
And who are the players in those brackets who knew which accounts to farm?
Of course you will deny and claim that those accounts are not yours or your guild mates'. You just happened to find them there.

First I can't see to level 200. So those are off limits to me. And I believe you are the hacker here with all bonuses unlocked in your guild so please tell everyone how you did it. You hack gems too?

[DragCro]

I know you'll answer that raiding is legit. The question is how stupid hackers can be that they will level up to 200 and leave billions of gold laying around? I think those hacker accounts are there intentionally so players in those brackets who know how to find them can raid those accounts and make the gold legit. It's a genius way of money laundry in KA!
And who are the players in those brackets who knew which accounts to farm?
Of course you will deny that those accounts are not yours or your guild mates'. You just happened to find them there.Dexter is a good guy and good friend and he is respected by many in game and in forum.If he say something than that is true,he is honourable man and one of the best people ingame and here,so i trust his every word in all maters..You and most can learn from him..As he help others with advices no mater in which guild or group you or any of you are..Some people earned respect,he is one of those people..We can argue or debate to the death but this are the facts!
I know that each person want to share their opinion i suport that but some people that abuse just to start argument..

[alizainal]

First I can't see to level 200. So those are off limits to me. And I believe you are the hacker here with all bonuses unlocked in your guild so please tell everyone how you did it. You hack gems too?

Oh, I'm not saying you, Dexter Morgan, that raid the accounts. You have guild mates in lvl 200 for raiding.
As who made those accounts, only God and the culprit know.

If you believe that your guild earn those achievements legally, I also believe that my guild earn ours legally.
If you accuse our guild cheats, we can accuse yours is a cheat too.

[JPNy]

Hello all !

I have read the 8 pages of posts and find some very interesting points of view, yet not converging.
The issue is apparently focusing on 56 to 60 members guilds, but is turning more clearly around the hackers problem and the Gree policy not (enough) enforced. It's also question of the gems boycott for the next war which is justified on many walls in the game because of the high pace of the war events and always during holidays WE for some people.

I am a member of a sixty members guild and not all bonuses unlocked. Shame on us, we used to have some gold hackers when all began with guilds (I was not in this guild, but this is not an excuse) and now what ?

- This guild is also the fruit of many other legitimate efforts of honest people (like I try to be in my life and in this game). Do these honest people deserve to see all these efforts disbanded ? Is there only one top guild which can give compelling evidences that in no way it has never benefited of a hacker : because of his donations or because of its non legitimate strength or because of his non legitimate gems ? The answers of the 2 questions are NO !!!

- What are the real benefits of hacked guild bonuses ??? That is the only good question of this thread ! (I apologize for my lack of humility). Indeed if we speak about top 50 guilds, even top 75 guilds I sincerely believe that it brings not that much :


*health regen ? No, it's a joke when we are speaking about (high) gem spenders (at least 85-90% of CPs are done with gems)


* Energy regen ? Still a joke as with a gain of 0.6 energy every minute you can't kill even a monster more in H mode and when finally you decide (or not) to put a mtn gems to finish this damned quests and get (or not) the precious unit ... Objectively not a benefit !


* Casualties rate ? Ok for this one ! You avoid loosing units being attacked or attacking and then being weaker or spending gold to rebuild. I don't understand why nobody speaks about this bonus, OK it's not visible !


* Same thing for the 2 buildings bonuses. But for these last 3 bonuses the benefits stay thin as all top guilds can afford till 3/5 legitimately (in my first guild, top 1250 !!, we could achieve 2/5 for these 3 bonuses before I left for the second war)


* And finally the much-maligned members bonus .... Again it makes me laugh at our level ... Last war, we were 2 warriors online monday morning and we attacked a guild doing just us 2 80k CP and incidentally winning the battle which was really not our intent but just doing points ! It's just a question of how many gems you put on the table and nothing else. Ok there are some free players in the top guilds and they do points doing free hits and also because they win when being attacked, but mainly the rank of their guild is done by gemspenders or rather I should say by gemspending almost regardless of the number of members !!!


Now just a rapid calculation for a free player fighting always full health:
Number of hours in a 3 days event = 72 hours
One battle every 2 hours gives 36 battles
Our free player has no life, poor needs to sleep and he attends 25 battles (I am sure some are doing this)
Number of free hits during one hour battles 7 to 10 according to different helth regen bonuses (only FUN should have 10)
Average CP per hit : 250 (you need to take into account that sometimes this player loose and sometimes he needs to hit on wall as he is a good teammate)
And the result is : 20 x (7 to 10) x 250 = 35000 to 50000 CP
I really thought that a very good free player does around 40K, not a bad approximation ! And we know that from far free players are not doing all 40K. In the same time a gemspender does 100k easily, 200k and even much more.

And we are speaking about the legitimacy of guilds having perhaps 6 guys as the benefit of hackers. In my guild the last 10 members did less than 5k all together... It's what we are talking so much about... If we had 6 fewer members, we would loose less thank 5k ... I am sure Gree knows that, and don't care because of the minor impact !

The real shame during guild wars is when a hacker comes to me with full highend gold units, weapons and armors and beat me doing points and casualties on me. It's even worse when it is honors units or gem units. And the climax is when he makes non legitimate gems hits. We, honest players should fight against this and not try to disband any guild with 2, 4 or even 6 members in excess. I report to Gree when I find hackers with full gold units and items : but never I got a feedback... I don't know if it is usefull...

And to finish with this issue, I have a word concerning the gems boycott. I am a legitimate gemspender (my own CP was over 500k last war) : I do not need moral lessons nor doctor for addiction ! I spend the money I earn the way I want, today it's for this game, tomorrow who knows ? The fact is I don't want our guild to be the victim of a bad bargain. All top top guilds seems very involved in this process but as long as the hierarchy is respected. This is hypocrisy : if the second comes too close we will do what is needed... No, If we all say no gem, it is no gem even if playing free makes the hierarchy moves !!!! Otherwise all guilds could say : Oh I am Nth guild, if the (N+1)th guild comes too close We will do what is needed !!! I much doubt of the sincere and sustainable commitment of top guilds. But I will observe how it goes just to respect those who believe in this process. And I am curious to see how we could finish in a whole non gem war!!!!!


That said I don't mind having wars every week or during weekday or just blitzkrieg. I am not attached to an absolute hierarchy which shouldn't be changed to let always same people benefit highest privileges making them unreachable, as respectable as they are !!

[DragCro]

Hello all !

I have read the 8 pages of posts and find some very interesting points of view, yet not converging.
The issue is apparently focusing on 56 to 60 members guilds, but is turning more clearly around the hackers problem and the Gree policy not (enough) enforced. It's also question of the gems boycott for the next war which is justified on many walls in the game because of the high pace of the war events and always during holidays WE for some people.

I am a member of a sixty members guild and not all bonuses unlocked. Shame on us, we used to have some gold hackers when all began with guilds (I was not in this guild, but this is not an excuse) and now what ?

- This guild is also the fruit of many other legitimate efforts of honest people (like I try to be in my life and in this game). Do these honest people deserve to see all these efforts disbanded ? Is there only one top guild which can give compelling evidences that in no way it has never benefited of a hacker : because of his donations or because of its non legitimate strength or because of his non legitimate gems ? The answers of the 2 questions are NO !!!

- What are the real benefits of hacked guild bonuses ??? That is the only good question of this thread ! (I apologize for my lack of humility). Indeed if we speak about top 50 guilds, even top 75 guilds I sincerely believe that it brings not that much :


*health regen ? No, it's a joke when we are speaking about (high) gem spenders (at least 85-90% of CPs are done with gems)


* Energy regen ? Still a joke as with a gain of 0.6 energy every minute you can't kill even a monster more in H mode and when finally you decide (or not) to put a mtn gems to finish this damned quests and get (or not) the precious unit ... Objectively not a benefit !


* Casualties rate ? Ok for this one ! You avoid loosing units being attacked or attacking and then being weaker or spending gold to rebuild. I don't understand why nobody speaks about this bonus, OK it's not visible !


* Same thing for the 2 buildings bonuses. But for these last 3 bonuses the benefits stay thin as all top guilds can afford till 3/5 legitimately (in my first guild, top 1250 !!, we could achieve 2/5 for these 3 bonuses before I left for the second war)


* And finally the much-maligned members bonus .... Again it makes me laugh at our level ... Last war, we were 2 warriors online monday morning and we attacked a guild doing just us 2 80k CP and incidentally winning the battle which was really not our intent but just doing points ! It's just a question of how many gems you put on the table and nothing else. Ok there are some free players in the top guilds and they do points doing free hits and also because they win when being attacked, but mainly the rank of their guild is done by gemspenders or rather I should say by gemspending almost regardless of the number of members !!!


Now just a rapid calculation for a free player fighting always full health:
Number of hours in a 3 days event = 72 hours
One battle every 2 hours gives 36 battles
Our free player has no life, poor needs to sleep and he attends 25 battles (I am sure some are doing this)
Number of free hits during one hour battles 7 to 10 according to different helth regen bonuses (only FUN should have 10)
Average CP per hit : 250 (you need to take into account that sometimes this player loose and sometimes he needs to hit on wall as he is a good teammate)
And the result is : 20 x (7 to 10) x 250 = 35000 to 50000 CP
I really thought that a very good free player does around 40K, not a bad approximation ! And we know that from far free players are not doing all 40K. In the same time a gemspender does 100k easily, 200k and even much more.

And we are speaking about the legitimacy of guilds having perhaps 6 guys as the benefit of hackers. In my guild the last 10 members did less than 5k all together... It's what we are talking so much about... If we had 6 fewer members, we would loose less thank 5k ... I am sure Gree knows that, and don't care because of the minor impact !

The real shame during guild wars is when a hacker comes to me with full highend gold units, weapons and armors and beat me doing points and casualties on me. It's even worse when it is honors units or gem units. And the climax is when he makes non legitimate gems hits. We, honest players should fight against this and not try to disband any guild with 2, 4 or even 6 members in excess. I report to Gree when I find hackers with full gold units and items : but never I got a feedback... I don't know if it is usefull...

And to finish with this issue, I have a word concerning the gems boycott. I am a legitimate gemspender (my own CP was over 500k last war) : I do not need moral lessons nor doctor for addiction ! I spend the money I earn the way I want, today it's for this game, tomorrow who knows ? The fact is I don't want our guild to be the victim of a bad bargain. All top top guilds seems very involved in this process but as long as the hierarchy is respected. This is hypocrisy : if the second comes too close we will do what is needed... No, If we all say no gem, it is no gem even if playing free makes the hierarchy moves !!!! Otherwise all guilds could say : Oh I am Nth guild, if the (N+1)th guild comes too close We will do what is needed !!! I much doubt of the sincere and sustainable commitment of top guilds. But I will observe how it goes just to respect those who believe in this process. And I am curious to see how we could finish in a whole non gem war!!!!!


That said I don't mind having wars every week or during weekday or just blitzkrieg. I am not attached to an absolute hierarchy which shouldn't be changed to let always same people benefit highest privileges making them unreachable, as respectable as they are !!you asked what is right thing to do?
I will tell you and every person in game and in forum will agree with me.
Send a ticket to support at Gree of your guild invite code and people that hacked or raided hackers for gold and report all bonuses that you bought with hackers gold.Ask from Gree to remove them.That is right thing to do.
It is not fair to other guilds that your guild increased size of the guild and that way you have more members and you earn more points during the battle,that is ilegal advantage position..That is not fair to other guilds that spend money on this game or to any honest and legit player

[klevito]

@ JPNy, i couldn't find a single line with which i would disagree

great post to read.

[DragCro]

@ JPNy, i couldn't find a single line with which i would disagree

great post to read.hackers and trolls always suport each other,very interesting.

[JPNy]

I don't ask anything.
I just give my opinion stating that all guilds have in a way or another benefited from hackers.
My goal is mainly to relativize what I have read here concerning the size of the guilds. I really don't care to have 20 fewer members as it would not change our ranking and it's certainly the case for most of 60 guilds.
hackers have been driven from our guild long time ago.

[JPNy]

hackers and trolls always suport each other,very interesting.


It's the difference between you and me ! I will not disrespect even if I don't agree

[DragCro]

It's the difference between you and me ! I will not disrespect even if I don't agree

With what i need to agree? With hackers or with hacking? You are suporting hacking with that post that you wrote that you dont disagree with him,that you think the same as him..With that kind of thinking this game will be ruined..To justify hacking or way how that guild build bonuses..What i need to agree on,tell me?

[klevito]

Send a ticket to support at Gree of your guild invite code and people that hacked or raided hackers for gold and report all bonuses that you bought with hackers gold.

DragCro, how much experience, information and technical knowledge you have regarding programing, computer language, scripts and code writing, server hosting, maintenance, storage, backup and management of online/mobile based games?

Depending on how extensive that knowledge is, your "I-tell-you-how-to-fix" post can be either taken as an advice or typing while watching a youtube video clip, listening to death metal music and removing some dead skin from the sole of your feet at the same time

[DragCro]

I don't ask anything.
I just give my opinion stating that all guilds have in a way or another benefited from hackers.
My goal is mainly to relativize what I have read here concerning the size of the guilds. I really don't care to have 20 fewer members as it would not change our ranking and it's certainly the case for most of 60 guilds.
hackers have been driven from our guild long time ago.

Listen,me and all members donated daily iph,i didnt bought a unit with my gold..So yes i disagree,yes im against people that cheated and other guilds that bought bonuses hacking or any other way that is not legit..I like to much this game to agree with you or method that you support..

[DragCro]

DragCro, how much experience, information and technical knowledge you have regarding programing, computer language, scripts and code writing, server hosting, maintenance, storage, backup and management of online/mobile based games?

Depending on how extensive that knowledge is, your "I-tell-you-how-to-fix" post can be either taken as an advice or typing while watching a youtube video clip, listening to death metal music and removing some dead skin from the sole of your feet at the same timeyou are just speaking jibberish

[JPNy]

With what i need to agree? With hackers or with hacking? You are suporting hacking with that post that you wrote that you dont disagree with him,that you think the same as him..With that kind of thinking this game will be ruined..To justify hacking or way how that guild build bonuses..What i need to agree on,tell me?

I don't ask you to agree with anything ! You think what you whant as I do.
The fact is, you coment my post without reading it :
I HAVE REPORTED HACKERS TO GREE !!!!
I DO NOT SUPPORT HACKERS IN ANY WAY !!!!


And I love this game as much as you !!!

[Zesder]

You do not support hackers, but you are not adverse to support from hackers.
Your guild has benefitted from a hacker. That means you support them.

[klevito]

From your flow of logic, you seem the kind that believes "if one has a long beard and dark skin, he is a terrorist"
were the rest of your 167 posts of the same quality?

[Toddiekska]

JPNy,
I understand you and others to state that you do not support hackers. Ultimately, it's a matter of integrity. Your guild benefits from the previous hackers by having more members to fight, donate, whatever the case may be. This is not fair to those guild, who are currently building and honestly working towards their goals. If you take money out of your account and suddenly have extra, keep it and use it, then you are just as at fault as someone who robs the bank. An honest person would turn the money in.

[[DW] maretzky]

From your flow of logic, you seem the kind that believes "if one has a long beard and dark skin, he is a terrorist"
were the rest of your 167 posts of the same quality?

The solution might be very easy, Amigo. If some country has problem with lots of people claiming that beardy, dark-skinned fellas are threatening their peaceful territory - this country could easily implement 100% ban for all such persons. Only a few will claim - if they are not Osama apprentices. All others will remain silent if they are terrorists in fact. Same is with hackers. Just ban all suspicious. No hacker will protest - will create new account (hacked of course). And next day will be deleted again. And after 2-3 days - will quit I think...

[klevito]

maretzky;771631']The solution might be very easy, Amigo. If some country has problem with lots of people claiming that beardy, dark-skinned fellas are threatening their peaceful territory - this country could easily implement 100% ban for all such persons. Only a few will claim - if they are not Osama apprentices. All others will remain silent if they are terrorists in fact. Same is with hackers. Just ban all suspicious. No hacker will protest - will create new account (hacked of course). And next day will be deleted again. And after 2-3 days - will quit I think...

hahahahaha

[[DW] maretzky]

hahahahaha

Sound of your smile means something or is just an extrapolation of your good humor? Hope so ;)

[glitters]

If they don't agree with you, you're a "troll". If they don't understand you, you're talking "gibberish". That's how some of the old time members on this forum roll.

[[DW] maretzky]

If they don't agree with you, you're a "troll". If they don't understand you, you're talking "gibberish". That's how some of the old time members on this forum roll.

Let's stick to the meritum, folks. Paraphrasing you I could say: tell someone that you do not understand and you will be called oldtimer. Fak. No way - every member (old, new, dead, reborn - no matter) will be called a troll if he really presents such attitude...

[Dexter Morgan]

If they don't agree with you, you're a "troll". If they don't understand you, you're talking "gibberish". That's how some of the old time members on this forum roll.

By "old time members" are you referring to the members that made this forum worth reading with useful information? So then I can classify you as one of the "youngsters" that offers nothing helpful or constructive to the forums, and is the reason the forums are going in the wrong direction. Sounds about accurate right?

[mee notyou]

Hello all !

I have read the 8 pages of posts and find some very interesting points of view, yet not converging.
The issue is apparently focusing on 56 to 60 members guilds, but is turning more clearly around the hackers problem and the Gree policy not (enough) enforced. It's also question of the gems boycott for the next war which is justified on many walls in the game because of the high pace of the war events and always during holidays WE for some people.

I am a member of a sixty members guild and not all bonuses unlocked. Shame on us, we used to have some gold hackers when all began with guilds (I was not in this guild, but this is not an excuse) and now what ?

- This guild is also the fruit of many other legitimate efforts of honest people (like I try to be in my life and in this game). Do these honest people deserve to see all these efforts disbanded ? Is there only one top guild which can give compelling evidences that in no way it has never benefited of a hacker : because of his donations or because of its non legitimate strength or because of his non legitimate gems ? The answers of the 2 questions are NO !!!

- What are the real benefits of hacked guild bonuses ??? That is the only good question of this thread ! (I apologize for my lack of humility). Indeed if we speak about top 50 guilds, even top 75 guilds I sincerely believe that it brings not that much :


*health regen ? No, it's a joke when we are speaking about (high) gem spenders (at least 85-90% of CPs are done with gems)


* Energy regen ? Still a joke as with a gain of 0.6 energy every minute you can't kill even a monster more in H mode and when finally you decide (or not) to put a mtn gems to finish this damned quests and get (or not) the precious unit ... Objectively not a benefit !


* Casualties rate ? Ok for this one ! You avoid loosing units being attacked or attacking and then being weaker or spending gold to rebuild. I don't understand why nobody speaks about this bonus, OK it's not visible !


* Same thing for the 2 buildings bonuses. But for these last 3 bonuses the benefits stay thin as all top guilds can afford till 3/5 legitimately (in my first guild, top 1250 !!, we could achieve 2/5 for these 3 bonuses before I left for the second war)


* And finally the much-maligned members bonus .... Again it makes me laugh at our level ... Last war, we were 2 warriors online monday morning and we attacked a guild doing just us 2 80k CP and incidentally winning the battle which was really not our intent but just doing points ! It's just a question of how many gems you put on the table and nothing else. Ok there are some free players in the top guilds and they do points doing free hits and also because they win when being attacked, but mainly the rank of their guild is done by gemspenders or rather I should say by gemspending almost regardless of the number of members !!!


Now just a rapid calculation for a free player fighting always full health:
Number of hours in a 3 days event = 72 hours
One battle every 2 hours gives 36 battles
Our free player has no life, poor needs to sleep and he attends 25 battles (I am sure some are doing this)
Number of free hits during one hour battles 7 to 10 according to different helth regen bonuses (only FUN should have 10)
Average CP per hit : 250 (you need to take into account that sometimes this player loose and sometimes he needs to hit on wall as he is a good teammate)
And the result is : 20 x (7 to 10) x 250 = 35000 to 50000 CP
I really thought that a very good free player does around 40K, not a bad approximation ! And we know that from far free players are not doing all 40K. In the same time a gemspender does 100k easily, 200k and even much more.

And we are speaking about the legitimacy of guilds having perhaps 6 guys as the benefit of hackers. In my guild the last 10 members did less than 5k all together... It's what we are talking so much about... If we had 6 fewer members, we would loose less thank 5k ... I am sure Gree knows that, and don't care because of the minor impact !

The real shame during guild wars is when a hacker comes to me with full highend gold units, weapons and armors and beat me doing points and casualties on me. It's even worse when it is honors units or gem units. And the climax is when he makes non legitimate gems hits. We, honest players should fight against this and not try to disband any guild with 2, 4 or even 6 members in excess. I report to Gree when I find hackers with full gold units and items : but never I got a feedback... I don't know if it is usefull...

And to finish with this issue, I have a word concerning the gems boycott. I am a legitimate gemspender (my own CP was over 500k last war) : I do not need moral lessons nor doctor for addiction ! I spend the money I earn the way I want, today it's for this game, tomorrow who knows ? The fact is I don't want our guild to be the victim of a bad bargain. All top top guilds seems very involved in this process but as long as the hierarchy is respected. This is hypocrisy : if the second comes too close we will do what is needed... No, If we all say no gem, it is no gem even if playing free makes the hierarchy moves !!!! Otherwise all guilds could say : Oh I am Nth guild, if the (N+1)th guild comes too close We will do what is needed !!! I much doubt of the sincere and sustainable commitment of top guilds. But I will observe how it goes just to respect those who believe in this process. And I am curious to see how we could finish in a whole non gem war!!!!!


That said I don't mind having wars every week or during weekday or just blitzkrieg. I am not attached to an absolute hierarchy which shouldn't be changed to let always same people benefit highest privileges making them unreachable, as respectable as they are !!

Have not read beyond this yet so I can only assume someone else has made the same comment I am about to. None-the-less, you mention that you joined a 60 member guild knowing that it was a hacked guild, yet honest people are contributing and it would not be fair for your guild to be disbanded because of your honest efforts. Fact of the matter is, simply, you joined a guild that you knew was hacked so if it gets disbanded and all your honest efforts are lost, you have no one to blame but yourself. You never should have joined that hacked guild in the first place.

As for your math about extra members not mattering, simple fact is that they do matter. There are several guilds in the Top 25 that are hacked, 60 member guilds. Without those extra players, they would not be scoring so highly.

Lastly, in regards to discrediting the health and energy regen bonuses, health regen speed does matter in wars because even us heavy gem spenders will time the gem rushes with free hits to ensure we are capitalizing on the free hits and getting better use out of the gems (and as for your math, 300 points per hit was our avg). That said, that is only wars. The maxed health and energy regen bonuses are a huge benefit in LTQs and, at the end of the day, that is helping members of hacked guilds increase their stats easier, and cheaper, than players not in hacked guilds...so in essence they are making the guild stronger for future wars.

Yes, I hope your guild is disbanded. Yes, I do not care if you lose all of your hard work. And yes, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[glitters]

By 'old time members' I refer to the members that have established some sort of "reputation" on this forum. They generally side with each other regardless of anything. Many of them are predisposed to declare a person that they disagree with a "troll". Once any one of them declares a person a troll, most of the other old timers tend to judge the "troll" before they read his posts.

When most of the old timers band together and beat the "troll" to death, it certainly does make the "troll" look like a troll. So all I can say to you young chicklings is disagree at your own risk!

Just an observation.


By "old time members" are you referring to the members that made this forum worth reading with useful information? So then I can classify you as one of the "youngsters" that offers nothing helpful or constructive to the forums, and is the reason the forums are going in the wrong direction. Sounds about accurate right?

[JPNy]

JPNy,
I understand you and others to state that you do not support hackers. Ultimately, it's a matter of integrity. Your guild benefits from the previous hackers by having more members to fight, donate, whatever the case may be. This is not fair to those guild, who are currently building and honestly working towards their goals. If you take money out of your account and suddenly have extra, keep it and use it, then you are just as at fault as someone who robs the bank. An honest person would turn the money in.

Thank you for your interesting reply which place the debate at a higher level. I didn't want to argue that there is no question of integrity in our situation. My intervention here is in a way sign that I don't feel comfortable with this situation and I could quit my guild because of that. In the other hand, where to go ? As I can't be sure that all other top guilds have in a way or another benefited from hackers activities and/or behave like the most cynical bankers or financial. So this witch-hunt against the most visible criterion, yet from far not the most impacting one, sounds like some players don't question, trying to find instead a scapegoat.

I have thought about that, these last hours at the light of this thread with lots of interesting information, and as far as we could follow the conclusions of emcee no guild should have more than 54 members and it's even worse if we add other guild bonuses and players with all highend gold units and items. It seems many more people should feel uncomfortable and question on their guild's integrity... Even those who cast me the first stone !!

... Perplexity ...

[JPNy]

Have not read beyond this yet so I can only assume someone else has made the same comment I am about to. None-the-less, you mention that you joined a 60 member guild knowing that it was a hacked guild, yet honest people are contributing and it would not be fair for your guild to be disbanded because of your honest efforts. Fact of the matter is, simply, you joined a guild that you knew was hacked so if it gets disbanded and all your honest efforts are lost, you have no one to blame but yourself. You never should have joined that hacked guild in the first place.

As for your math about extra members not mattering, simple fact is that they do matter. There are several guilds in the Top 25 that are hacked, 60 member guilds. Without those extra players, they would not be scoring so highly.

Lastly, in regards to discrediting the health and energy regen bonuses, health regen speed does matter in wars because even us heavy gem spenders will time the gem rushes with free hits to ensure we are capitalizing on the free hits and getting better use out of the gems (and as for your math, 300 points per hit was our avg). That said, that is only wars. The maxed health and energy regen bonuses are a huge benefit in LTQs and, at the end of the day, that is helping members of hacked guilds increase their stats easier, and cheaper, than players not in hacked guilds...so in essence they are making the guild stronger for future wars.

Yes, I hope your guild is disbanded. Yes, I do not care if you lose all of your hard work. And yes, you have no one to blame but yourself.

I have never stated that I joined knowing some hackers have worked on this guild. I have recently understood that, reading the forum and this type of threads. This make me question and come to the same conclusion than emcee.

I also do an average of 300 and even more last war. But I highly doubt that a free player can achieve this score taking into account that a wall hit or a loss will weigh heavily in a very lower total of hits.

Concerning health regen you can't count the whole bonuses as achieving 3/5 is highly legitimate and the diference gives nothing for boss event. But the hacked gold units does much much more.

I maintain that energy regen is just a joke : 5 days event = 7200 minutes = 21600 energy without bonuses and 26640 energy with full guild bonuses : you hardly achieve one more stage in H mode with that difference. Again the difference between 3/5 and 5/5 is even more tenuous.

[procsyzarc]

I have never stated that I joined knowing some hackers have worked on this guild. I have recently understood that, reading the forum and this type of threads. This make me question and come to the same conclusion than emcee.

I also do an average of 300 and even more last war. But I highly doubt that a free player can achieve this score taking into account that a wall hit or a loss will weigh heavily in a very lower total of hits.

Concerning health regen you can't count the whole bonuses as achieving 3/5 is highly legitimate and the diference gives nothing for boss event. But the hacked gold units does much much more.

I maintain that energy regen is just a joke : 5 days event = 7200 minutes = 21600 energy without bonuses and 26640 energy with full guild bonuses : you hardly achieve one more stage in H mode with that difference. Again the difference between 3/5 and 5/5 is even more tenuous.

Those bonuses may not mean much in your opinion but they cost a lot of money to unlock. By getting them for free due to hackers that frees up a lot of money for your members to gain un affair advantage other legitimate players cannot. Let’s give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you would have got to 52 members without the hackers. That is 3.9B in guild increases not including the other bonuses so we could assume your guild has saved at least 6B from hackers.

So your 52 members (probably would have been less since you would have had less recruiting power) have saved 6B to put towards other units/weapons/armor/IPH upgrades that is 115m per member you have the benefit of that you should not. That extra 115m gives you a huge increase in stats over players who need to contribute that gold to their guild to help it develop (hell even I am still not maxed with weapons and armor due to lack of gold and over half would be 0/3 or 2/0) . Now that you have increased your stats due to hackers you are also now powerful so it has flow on affects such as you can now raid/attack more people, can be attacked raided by less people, can get further in boss events, get more WD points by having higher stats to give a better selection of targets, this in turn makes your stronger again and benefits continues to increase.

Same goes with the bonuses that you think mean nothing, sure on the surface it may not seem it will make much difference but every little advantage whether it be one extra stage in heroic of a LTQ or boss makes you stronger than you should have been for the next so you can get further and further each time.

So try to justify it anyway you like but you are taking advantage of those hackers and enjoying the benefit, if you truly cared about being fair you would all leave the guild and start a new one with the legit players (which you claim is all of you now) and the only thing you would lose are those bonuses that you say don’t matter anyway, but we all know you won’t do that so why even try to justify it here. You got the benefit you are happy about it and a very unlikely to get banned for it so just move on there is no need for you to try and justify it here.

[[JAG] Ryan]

Thanks guys for the interesting posts.

Indeed the issue cant be split in simple black and white areas. Im pretty sure nobody wants or like hackers, especially as most people spend real money here. But many people took and take advantage out of it.
Is it really more honourable "just" to attack/raid a hacker vs. a hacker who spend the gold to the guild directly?
Is it ethical to attack a hacker ongoing and knowing or assuming that his big amount of gold possibly is not bought with real money? Is it fair to use the gold gained that way for yourself or for guild donations? I mean you even cant refuse to use this gold once received, right? Who have real proven track of all such situations? Should only the strongest be allowed to take advantage out of that issue? Or only the strong players with low ally numbers as many hackers have been seen on high levels but with low ally numbers? Does a guild really first needs to ask for a cv and proof of all itunes transactions prior accepting a new member or a donation?

The Real world has many grey shades as well as this game and this issue. It was stated somewhere before that raiding/attacking someone is part of this game. True. I assume that we all agree, that trying to steal someones unvaulted gold and increasing own stats is also part of the game. If i come across to someone having a huge amount of gold, should i first ask him about the proof how he managed to achieve this amount before attacking? No. Is it according the rules to attack? Yes. Is it ethical? ??? Depends on everyones own definition of honour.

But again, any advantage received through a hacker is not ok! But who should have the right to point his fingers on anyone taken or taking advantage out of that. Obviously only someone who never took any advantage, either through attacks/raids/guild bonuses or donations from team mates who took advantage knowingly or not.

I am not sure how many players are really able to confirm that. However, i agree that all actions which presume a knowing or awareness that someone has hacked and still taking personal advantage are closer to black than any other unknown related actions.

But In the end, everybody needs to answer this question by him/herself and should like what they see in the mirror.

[Ratma2001]

And to weigh in on this , my interpretation is ..
If Gree support done what they stated to do none of this would be here, and i would not be writing this, Gree support is to blame for all the Hackers (yes i will say the word) , JPny (sound familar to someone i know) you said that you reported the HACK to support..let me gues nothing was done ? as with all other reports of hacks..nothing gets done because in Gree's eye it accounts for ...whats that CJ54 1%..what a load of crock!, i have reported numerous players for hacking and guess what they still play, I mean honestly a player with IPH of $548 can have huge stats and +54,000 Clerics , honestly Gree do YOUR job if we (Players) report a potential hacker look into it, its not hard to spot them, heres a hint normally there losses are more than there wins, and captain obvious says so is the Millions in gold, how about a level 15 player with IPH $1623 with over 4Million in there bank ? reported still playing. Legitimate player are getting the short straw..its your program you know it back to front and inside out , if i can see these players you would find them in a heart beart..this is your job not mine, i dont get paid to do your job !
My "Rose coloured Interpretation" from ALL the posts on Hackers with in so many Guilds currently and the previous wars would be "Delete" whats been done and start again !, remove the culprits , change your program to stop this getting out of hand or going further ! next players will stop complaining about this and that and everything will be rosy !
Crikey i sent so many ticket not only to support but even CJ54 and not 1 of them were banned, Gree do what you are supposed to by keeping the wolf away! I've said it before and here we go again , Hacker WILL bring this game into disrepute sooner or later , but it looks like sooner.
I still have all my screenshots of all the hackers ive met whilst i was playing and I.D Numbers, If Administrators wish to ban me from using certain words or terms thats fine, i dont write much nowadays , but if your past is anything to go by you are quick to ban forum members for speaking out but very very slow to act on reports of ridding the 1 thing that stains this game and the reason why so many leave.
Look after your paying customers first before you look after the hackers Gree !

[JPNy]

All these alleged benefits are totally virtual because we all continue to contribute to the guild to buy walls and reach some other bonuses. All my stats increases come from my involvement in the game and the gems I spend to finish H mode or other events. I could really see the difference only when I began to spend gems, not before despite the so-called guild bonuses... I was already a strong free player when all this began.

But anyway if we do not fall agree on some points procsyzarc , you are right on several others and not the leasts for me (as is mee notyou) :
- some of our guild bonuses are not legitimate : 60 members at least
- even if it is for my part some non impacting benefits, it is still not honest to stay knowing that. I can only argue of my fisrt naivety and my good faith
- hackers and other cheaters are killing the game and it's a pity that Gree can't do more. I know it's a never-ending war !

That said, I couldn't stay in this guild and left just after my previous post. It's a top 75 guild, hope it has not caused damage too much ! I don't want to play in a guild now and yet I love so much war events! I will follow a bit what comes, continue playing alone and see if some honest guilds could make me enjoying again the war events.

One thing is sure tonight, a high gemspender will really boycott next war :p !
I didn't want to hurt anyone, otherwise my apologizes !

[mee notyou]

All these alleged benefits are totally virtual because we all continue to contribute to the guild to buy walls and reach some other bonuses. All my stats increases come from my involvement in the game and the gems I spend to finish H mode or other events. I could really see the difference only when I began to spend gems, not before despite the so-called guild bonuses... I was already a strong free player when all this began.

But anyway if we do not fall agree on some points procsyzarc , you are right on several others and not the leasts for me (as is mee notyou) :
- some of our guild bonuses are not legitimate : 60 members at least
- even if it is for my part some non impacting benefits, it is still not honest to stay knowing that. I can only argue of my fisrt naivety and my good faith
- hackers and other cheaters are killing the game and it's a pity that Gree can't do more. I know it's a never-ending war !

That said, I couldn't stay in this guild and left just after my previous post. It's a top 75 guild, hope it has not caused damage too much ! I don't want to play in a guild now and yet I love so much war events! I will follow a bit what comes, continue playing alone and see if some honest guilds could make me enjoying again the war events.

One thing is sure tonight, a high gemspender will really boycott next war :p !
I didn't want to hurt anyone, otherwise my apologizes !

I applaud you walking away and will give you the benefit of the doubt that it was naivety and ignorance. Because you are taking the moral high ground and are now without a guild, I offer you a place with us in BlackOps; currently ranked 11th, honest, and legit. We will be sandbagging the next war to see how things turn out so we will probably be on the bottom end of T25 or somewhere in T50. If not an issue for you, code is 992 690 068.

[Sir Marcus]

Taken in context, dear Morgan Sir Marcus is referring to the above text in bold

Yeah, don't put words in my mouth please.

If there are any legit guilds with 56 members, its FUN and RK. They're the top of the KA food chain, and have spent absurd amounts of real money on wars. Its reasonable to believe that they have higher than average IPH, higher than average than average raid income, and are much more willing to spend for the largest gold piles. Its also reasonable to believe that they have alternate farm accounts - so they could have effectively 100+ accounts across multiple devices contributing gold.

However, guilds with 60 members? If the top two can't do it, I just don't see how anyone else can - especially when there were a horde of 1/60 member guilds out there on day 1. Or 30/60 members today. Or people advertising "All bonuses unlocked".

Basic logging functions would let GREE know exactly when each guild unlocked which bonus. If a guild unlocks 10 bonuses in a single day - that's hacktastic. And it isn't exactly hard to spot.

[Sir Marcus]

As for your math about extra members not mattering, simple fact is that they do matter. There are several guilds in the Top 25 that are hacked, 60 member guilds. Without those extra players, they would not be scoring so highly.

Yes, I hope your guild is disbanded. Yes, I do not care if you lose all of your hard work. And yes, you have no one to blame but yourself.

This. One thing that makes hacking in guilds different from hacking before guilds existed is that illegitimate gains by hacker guilds steal prizes from legitimate players. Steal. Remove the benefits of real money expenditure from. Legitimate players are not getting what they're paying for.

So, yeah, if your guild was created by hackers, you deserve to get the guild disbanded. If your guild still has hackers, you deserve to get the guild disbanded. You also deserve to lose the guild war rewards your hacking obtained for you. And the people you stole from deserve to get the guild war rewards retroactively given to them.

Now, if or when any of happening depends on if or how GREE updates their policies to include a guild policy. But if it does happen, you did it to yourself. And honestly, it isn't even about you. It is about the people who spend real money getting what they pay for.

[Colony Colonel]

and that kicking a hacker out of your guild makes you a target to their 300 abominations attacking all of your buildings every 5 minutes........

[Johan -]

Yeah, don't put words in my mouth please.

If there are any legit guilds with 56 members, its FUN and RK. They're the top of the KA food chain, and have spent absurd amounts of real money on wars. Its reasonable to believe that they have higher than average IPH, higher than average than average raid income, and are much more willing to spend for the largest gold piles. Its also reasonable to believe that they have alternate farm accounts - so they could have effectively 100+ accounts across multiple devices contributing gold.

However, guilds with 60 members? If the top two can't do it, I just don't see how anyone else can - especially when there were a horde of 1/60 member guilds out there on day 1. Or 30/60 members today. Or people advertising "All bonuses unlocked".

Basic logging functions would let GREE know exactly when each guild unlocked which bonus. If a guild unlocks 10 bonuses in a single day - that's hacktastic. And it isn't exactly hard to spot.

hmhm...alternate farm accounts - so they could have effectively 100+ accounts across multiple devices contributing gold. ? So they should have many devices just to play better in KA??? I still keep having doubts that Guilds with 52+ members are 100% legit! ( even in FUN or the other Guilds, who says that some of their members will tell to the other members that they used a hack for donating gold!) We aren't living in paradise and the game is in a virtual world.

There is really sooo much gold for required, that is seems impossible in such a short time.
You want to say that beside the GEMS they buy, they also spend thousands of USD for unlocking the bonuses? 1,5mill gold for USD100,00 means 15 mill for USD1000,00 gives again 150 mill. for USD10.000,00 and again USD100.000,00 for 1,5 Bill., then you still need the same in gold to be able to unlock at least the member increase bonuses!

So? Really????
Assuming that when the guilds started, there weren't 50 members at ones in any of the guilds.
I think GREE created the guild wars, so that slowly the guilds could grow to 50~ 60 member sizes, normally spoken this would take at least 6 months for sure, what happened in KA was that within 1,5 months most guilds had member sizes of 50~60 members.

Meanwhile I read a lot about what was/is possible by using hacks, I read also that since approx.. 1 month GREE has patched all of that ( check Google search) , all is now controlled by the GREE server and also gold cannot be hacked anymore.

Furthermore, I think most of us are getting a little bit tired to read in almost every tread about hacking and what is and what is not, we should focus more on the game itself and enjoy it.

I trust GREE will take more actions, meanwhile I first want to see what will happen coming weekend during the Guild war, what will happen with the Guilds who said they will not use gems! Because I know for sure some other guilds will use gems and try to win the war.

[klevito]

[B]
Furthermore, I think most of us are getting a little bit tired to read in almost every tread about hacking and what is and what is not, we should focus more on the game itself and enjoy it.

1- it wont be long till you get "smashed", ridiculed and called the standard "troll", "hacker-lover", "gibberish talking" by one of the few dozen forum posters who belong to a top 10 guild and has more than 4-500 forum posts.
Some serious "holier than thou" trend going on. :)

2- To lighten up the debate a bit, let's play a "game".
- randomly pick any of the dozen or so posters who carry the signature "MoC"
- click on the profile and view latest posts going back 40-50 days.
- use ctrl+F to search for the word or words "hack", "hacker", "hacker-guild"

how many can you count
:)

[Klassenr@hotmail.com]

hmhm...alternate farm accounts

There is really sooo much gold for required, that is seems impossible in such a short time.
You want to say that beside the GEMS they buy, they also spend thousands of USD for unlocking the bonuses? 1,5mill gold for USD100,00 means 15 mill for USD1000,00 gives again 150 mill. for USD10.000,00 and again USD100.000,00 for 1,5 Bill., then you still need the same in gold to be able to unlock at least the member increase bonuses!
.

Keep in mind that gold purchases are relative to IPH. Someone with an IPH of 30,000 can purchase 4mil+ in a single mountain. Combined with a 40% off sale, bonus program and deep pockets, several billion gold from one person is not inconceivable.

[bgood]

just as a correction its about roughtly 120*IPH so the number for 4 mil in a single mountain is about 33k and change iph. Even still that 4 mill that means when guilds started (the last 40% sale was first war) $60 a mtn gold is 250 vaults (with no bonuses) so max spent is 15k to get a billion. So yes its conceivable however were humans we can get greater return with gems then gold by a lot and our own personal character will benefit greater with gem purchase. I feel fairly confident saying the 60 man guilds ARE not funded from gold purchases...although recognize they could be.

[Engineer951]

How can you have multiple accounts on one ipad? Is it possible?

[Toddiekska]

How can you have multiple accounts on one ipad? Is it possible?

For example, i'm guessing Iphone and Ipad in the house would yield two accounts. I'm not sure if the game works on an Itouch or other devices like Droids, etc.

[Mr Painite]

I still keep having doubts that Guilds with 52+ members are 100% legit!

Based on what? How did you decide on this arbitrary number that divides legit from non-legit guilds?


( even in FUN or the other Guilds, who says that some of their members will tell to the other members that they used a hack for donating gold!)

You are implying that the top guild and others are widely using a gold hack (even though gold is server-side now). Do you have any proof of this happening in any guild?


There is really sooo much gold for required, that is seems impossible in such a short time.
You want to say that beside the GEMS they buy, they also spend thousands of USD for unlocking the bonuses? 1,5mill gold for USD100,00 means 15 mill for USD1000,00 gives again 150 mill. for USD10.000,00 and again USD100.000,00 for 1,5 Bill., then you still need the same in gold to be able to unlock at least the member increase bonuses!

What happened to IPH and attacking/raiding for gold? Many kingdoms in top guilds have 40k, 50k, even 60k+ IPH and can earn just as much or more through PVP. Do some math and you will see that 56 and 58 members are achievable in the time elapsed, without buying gold, when the top 100-200 kingdoms in the game are doing the donating.


So? Really????
Assuming that when the guilds started, there weren't 50 members at ones in any of the guilds.
I think GREE created the guild wars, so that slowly the guilds could grow to 50~ 60 member sizes, normally spoken this would take at least 6 months for sure, what happened in KA was that within 1,5 months most guilds had member sizes of 50~60 members.

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means


Meanwhile I read a lot about what was/is possible by using hacks, I read also that since approx.. 1 month GREE has patched all of that ( check Google search) , all is now controlled by the GREE server and also gold cannot be hacked anymore.

But you just implied that FUN and other guilds are widely using a gold hack.


I trust GREE will take more actions, meanwhile I first want to see what will happen coming weekend during the Guild war, what will happen with the Guilds who said they will not use gems! Because I know for sure some other guilds will use gems and try to win the war.

Proof?

[Klassenr@hotmail.com]

Entirely way to much speculation, theories, personal attitudes, beliefs and platitudes in this thread. Gold can be purchased. Guilds have been around long enough that unlocks could be legit. We know some are not. To categorically deny that ANY could be is pure conjecture.

[U WISH]

There seems to be a lot of talk of the top guilds doing dodgy stuff here, I can not say that this is all true but i do remember that before the Guild wars started it was rumoured that The1nONLY had amassed over 100Million in gold before the fall out with the RK's that a big chunk of change and would give their Guild a big kick start and have most behind the 8 ball !, how long would it take me to amass that amount Months if not a year but i dont have Manors at level 10 or other buildings that high either, if these teams look or scout for the higher IPH it is possible that they may have put what they could into the Guild to unlock bonuses, i know that there is a top ten guild that will not allow any member to raid or take gold from a "Suspicious" account due to rammifications from other players/Gree, they do not want to be associated with this sort of tactic and if they find anyone doing such things they are outsted straight away.
So some Guilds have honourable rules and others have inside info before events starts, It all comes down to preperation.
So it is possible to have 56-57 Memebrs as in FUN not that im a member (cant afford it) if you had a head start with gold contribution.

[emcee]

As founder of TBC during beta and donating my initial millions (under 10 mil) from 2 accounts after camping for at least half a year I've seen more than my share of questionable guilds even before Dragon's Roost during beta wars. Even then there were 60 member guilds which I have reported and nothing has been done since I last checked.

Nothing is impossible to attain even with a one member guild and very deep pockets. However, is it plausible? A 50 member guild from the inception of guilds may be able to achieve 60 spots total with the time line given but no team starts with 50 members. It takes lots of time to put together a team and even more discipline to have that team with a single minded focus to donate nearly 100% of their income to the guild. Even at the best of times this isn't the case for most teams as there is always a bit of self serving thought to better yourself first before others. That's why you still see members in guilds not donating 100% of their gold to the group and instead upgrade buildings, vaults or buying units and equipment.

As to hearing members in certain guilds dropping to near zero alliance and farming hacked accounts all I can say is that this has never happened in TBC. However, the odds of one of my guild members raiding a hacked account unknowingly since TBC was formed I would venture to say its pretty high. Once discovering such a cash cow and announcing to our guild members to hunt for that player with untold millions unvaulted I don't ever recall that happening. So as a 46 member guild looking at the next 2 member spots to unlock at 144 million and putting that on the back burner to unlock our first health regen for 30 mil you can see where some of the skepticism come from.
Hence, everything is possible but is it plausible?

[Johan -]

Based on what? How did you decide on this arbitrary number that divides legit from non-legit guilds?



You are implying that the top guild and others are widely using a gold hack (even though gold is server-side now). Do you have any proof of this happening in any guild?



What happened to IPH and attacking/raiding for gold? Many kingdoms in top guilds have 40k, 50k, even 60k+ IPH and can earn just as much or more through PVP. Do some math and you will see that 56 and 58 members are achievable in the time elapsed, without buying gold, when the top 100-200 kingdoms in the game are doing the donating.



You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means



But you just implied that FUN and other guilds are widely using a gold hack.



Proof?

First of all I responded on the post from Sir Marcus, concerning the matter about farming from alternate accounts.
I did not imply that FUN are widely are using a gold hack, it was in case 1 of their members would use 1.
About the hack patches, because it is not possible now anymore doesn't mean that 3 months it was possible.
Proof about using GEMS, read the forums and wait till after this weekend.

First read properly and then respond please..
Thanks.

[Racr-X]

Thank you for sharing...

[I8onefq]

Hello all !

I have read the 8 pages of posts and find some very interesting points of view, yet not converging.
The issue is apparently focusing on 56 to 60 members guilds, but is turning more clearly around the hackers problem and the Gree policy not (enough) enforced. It's also question of the gems boycott for the next war which is justified on many walls in the game because of the high pace of the war events and always during holidays WE for some people.

I am a member of a sixty members guild and not all bonuses unlocked. Shame on us, we used to have some gold hackers when all began with guilds (I was not in this guild, but this is not an excuse) and now what ?

- This guild is also the fruit of many other legitimate efforts of honest people (like I try to be in my life and in this game). Do these honest people deserve to see all these efforts disbanded ? Is there only one top guild which can give compelling evidences that in no way it has never benefited of a hacker : because of his donations or because of its non legitimate strength or because of his non legitimate gems ? The answers of the 2 questions are NO !!!

- What are the real benefits of hacked guild bonuses ??? That is the only good question of this thread ! (I apologize for my lack of humility). Indeed if we speak about top 50 guilds, even top 75 guilds I sincerely believe that it brings not that much :


*health regen ? No, it's a joke when we are speaking about (high) gem spenders (at least 85-90% of CPs are done with gems)


* Energy regen ? Still a joke as with a gain of 0.6 energy every minute you can't kill even a monster more in H mode and when finally you decide (or not) to put a mtn gems to finish this damned quests and get (or not) the precious unit ... Objectively not a benefit !


* Casualties rate ? Ok for this one ! You avoid loosing units being attacked or attacking and then being weaker or spending gold to rebuild. I don't understand why nobody speaks about this bonus, OK it's not visible !


* Same thing for the 2 buildings bonuses. But for these last 3 bonuses the benefits stay thin as all top guilds can afford till 3/5 legitimately (in my first guild, top 1250 !!, we could achieve 2/5 for these 3 bonuses before I left for the second war)


* And finally the much-maligned members bonus .... Again it makes me laugh at our level ... Last war, we were 2 warriors online monday morning and we attacked a guild doing just us 2 80k CP and incidentally winning the battle which was really not our intent but just doing points ! It's just a question of how many gems you put on the table and nothing else. Ok there are some free players in the top guilds and they do points doing free hits and also because they win when being attacked, but mainly the rank of their guild is done by gemspenders or rather I should say by gemspending almost regardless of the number of members !!!


Now just a rapid calculation for a free player fighting always full health:
Number of hours in a 3 days event = 72 hours
One battle every 2 hours gives 36 battles
Our free player has no life, poor needs to sleep and he attends 25 battles (I am sure some are doing this)
Number of free hits during one hour battles 7 to 10 according to different helth regen bonuses (only FUN should have 10)
Average CP per hit : 250 (you need to take into account that sometimes this player loose and sometimes he needs to hit on wall as he is a good teammate)
And the result is : 20 x (7 to 10) x 250 = 35000 to 50000 CP
I really thought that a very good free player does around 40K, not a bad approximation ! And we know that from far free players are not doing all 40K. In the same time a gemspender does 100k easily, 200k and even much more.

And we are speaking about the legitimacy of guilds having perhaps 6 guys as the benefit of hackers. In my guild the last 10 members did less than 5k all together... It's what we are talking so much about... If we had 6 fewer members, we would loose less thank 5k ... I am sure Gree knows that, and don't care because of the minor impact !

The real shame during guild wars is when a hacker comes to me with full highend gold units, weapons and armors and beat me doing points and casualties on me. It's even worse when it is honors units or gem units. And the climax is when he makes non legitimate gems hits. We, honest players should fight against this and not try to disband any guild with 2, 4 or even 6 members in excess. I report to Gree when I find hackers with full gold units and items : but never I got a feedback... I don't know if it is usefull...

And to finish with this issue, I have a word concerning the gems boycott. I am a legitimate gemspender (my own CP was over 500k last war) : I do not need moral lessons nor doctor for addiction ! I spend the money I earn the way I want, today it's for this game, tomorrow who knows ? The fact is I don't want our guild to be the victim of a bad bargain. All top top guilds seems very involved in this process but as long as the hierarchy is respected. This is hypocrisy : if the second comes too close we will do what is needed... No, If we all say no gem, it is no gem even if playing free makes the hierarchy moves !!!! Otherwise all guilds could say : Oh I am Nth guild, if the (N+1)th guild comes too close We will do what is needed !!! I much doubt of the sincere and sustainable commitment of top guilds. But I will observe how it goes just to respect those who believe in this process. And I am curious to see how we could finish in a whole non gem war!!!!!


That said I don't mind having wars every week or during weekday or just blitzkrieg. I am not attached to an absolute hierarchy which shouldn't be changed to let always same people benefit highest privileges making them unreachable, as respectable as they are !!


I couldn't agree with you more on this one JPNy.. And Klevito (or Klavito, sorry if I miss spelled it), You have some great posts here.. Your posts are full of wisdom and I can tell you are not a "child" that needs to use words like "troll" or "gibberish" to express themselves..

*******Ok, back to the subject, sorry I got carried away.
I need to say something to all these people. AND TOP 50 MEMBERS (so guilds from #1 to #50 guilds) Please read this, because it is very important!!!!!!!!!!********

I am a test account and I've had a test account on KA for a while now. It is a intentionally HACKED account.. So, i know nobody can question me here! And I will not respond to posts that are related to my post again! Read carefully!

Test account was ******** (can not use real name do to GREE-privacy reasons).. That account has been attacked and raided multiple times by top guilds. First, different players would raid me and steal hundreds of thousands of dollars and then post messages on my account saying I've been reported to GREE. Don't worry GREE won't do anything because Im part of a test account!

So, with that said, I can tell you for a 100% certainty, just because a guild has less than 56 members in a guild, doesn't mean they got their bonuses the legit way. I will not write out any names of guilds involved, but I can tell you that a lot of the guilds that are involved in some way or form, have already posted on this thread!!! As one of the FUN members mentioned, hacked accounts were formed to raid money from them, and I know of those too, I've seen them! So not one guild is innocent here.

DO NOT TRY TO ACCUSE OTHER GUILDS OF CHEATING WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN YOUR OWN GUILD!!! I'VE SEEN MULTIPLE MEMBERS THAT HAVE ATTACKED/RAIDED HACKED ACCOUNTS, AND THEY ARE ON TOP GUILDS RIGHT NOW!!! That is all i will say for now.

A lot of you should shut up, because I may know more than you think! It is very amusing reading these comments, knowing everything..

Wish I could mention all the guilds involved, but trust me, I know ALL of them, and lets just say the number is way way higher than you thin.

Thank you,

I8onefq