Might as well get it out now!

[Rapg635]

How many teams suffered with the health regeneration problem. My faction has 5 of the 6 regen upgrades, and are very close for the final upgrade. Many of us also have the deadly bridge jumper, which gives a 20% boost. But in Ireland, we were lucky to get 7 attacks in, and that only happened if we used our first four hits in the first 2-3 minutes of the battle. What a bunch of garbage! Even worse were the responses such " it is only a display issue, and the feature is working properly" it was never fixed.

And let me also complain about the huge discrepancy in rival point losses. How many also have this problem. My attack points is approx 105k. I lost many battles with a rival who had put to 60k LESS in defense points. I was told those losses occurred because of skill points and bonuses that are not displayed. But wouldn't that mean very time I attacked that same rival I should ALWAYS LOSE! After all, skill points and bonuses don't change. So if I lost to a rival with 60k defense points displayed, I should lose every time to,that same player. But that was not the case. Out of my 28 or so losses, 6 were either power attacks, or def ldr hits, four others were from stronger players, and the last 18 or so were from players AT LEAST 25k defense points less than me. If I lost to someone with more than 25k lower stats, I intentionally attacked them at least 2 additional times to see the outcome. I always won those extra attacks. Also, other players on my team, with 20k attack points LESS than me were winning against the same rival I lost too. So, gree, this discrepancy has nothing to do with skill points and bonuses. It is simply another glitch, or improper code, or whatever, but it's time to own up to it! Sorry for the long post!

[a3o]

And let me also complain about the huge discrepancy in rival point losses. How many also have this problem. My attack points is approx 105k. I lost many battles with a rival who had put to 60k LESS in defense points. I was told those losses occurred because of skill points and bonuses that are not displayed. But wouldn't that mean very time I attacked that same rival I should ALWAYS LOSE! After all, skill points and bonuses don't change. So if I lost to a rival with 60k defense points displayed, I should lose every time to,that same player. But that was not the case. Out of my 28 or so losses, 6 were either power attacks, or def ldr hits, four others were from stronger players, and the last 18 or so were from players AT LEAST 25k defense points less than me. If I lost to someone with more than 25k lower stats, I intentionally attacked them at least 2 additional times to see the outcome. I always won those extra attacks. Also, other players on my team, with 20k attack points LESS than me were winning against the same rival I lost too. So, gree, this discrepancy has nothing to do with skill points and bonuses. It is simply another glitch, or improper code, or whatever, but it's time to own up to it! Sorry for the long post!

Loosing to players that are more than 20k weaker is what will unltimately end my game. I lost my last 10 fights in Ireland to people I should have won against.

[Miner]

Rapg635:

Hey buddy. I don't think I know you and you probably don't know me. Long timer here but haven't been active much lately.

In terms of the health regen, you should be able to get 7 hits in, but that's if you're at full health and you play it tight. There's no margin for error with 5 of the 6 health regens purchased to get a full 7 in. Once you purchase the 6th boost, you'll have a little more cushion, but will still only be able to get 7 hits in.

Here's a table with Regen times for your reference. There are more health regen boosts out there now, but this is just the ones that I personally have. It reads from the top down, with the boosts players are most likely to have at the top.



Boost
Reduced
Value
Regen Time
Formatted
Boss Wait
Time
WD Wait
Time
Max Free Boss
Hits
Max WD Free
Hits


Faction 1/6 (5%)
0.95
1:35:0
24:42
23:45
13
6


Faction 2/6 (5%)
0.903
1:30:15
23:28
22:34
15
6


Faction 3/6 (5%)
0.857
1:25:44
22:18
21:26
15
6


Faction 4/6 (5%)
0.815
1:21:27
21:11
20:22
15
6


Faction 5/6 (5%)
0.774
1:17:23
20:7
19:21
15
7


Faction 6/6 (5%)
0.735
1:13:31
19:7
18:23
17
7


Deadly Bridge Jumper (20%)
0.588
0:58:48
15:17
14:42
19
8


Assault Bridge Jumper (20%)
0.470
0:47:3
12:14
11:46
23
9


P-91 Pounder (30%)
0.329
0:32:56
8:34
8:14
31
11




Now, regarding the other issue.

There is a known issue with the defense stat in the battle screen. Support has recognized that it exists. The issue is that the defense stat DISPLAYED in the battle screen is not considering all the defensive boosts, but the algorithm that determines the outcome of a battle is. Hence the discrepancy. It causes a ton of problems obviously as it is difficult to report reliable intel to your faction members.

My recommendation at the time is to consider all defense numbers to be as much as 25% understated (mine is). Also keep in mind, skill points are considered in the outcome, but not reflected in any displayed stats so even if it was to display the correct defense stat, there still could be battles that you lose in spite of the fact your attack score is higher than the opponents displayed defense score.

[Thief]

Was about to type up a long response in the hopes of helping....Miner clearly beat me to it and probably did a much better job anyways :D

[NaRciS]

One in four of my gold regens ended in defeat even though my attack was sometimes nearly double their defence, worst loss was my attack at 140,000 there defence shown at 68,000.

Thats bad, on average i would take on fights were there was a difference of around 50,000 and i could still lose one in four :(

[JMC]

How many teams suffered with the health regeneration problem. My faction has 5 of the 6 regen upgrades, and are very close for the final upgrade. Many of us also have the deadly bridge jumper, which gives a 20% boost. But in Ireland, we were lucky to get 7 attacks in, and that only happened if we used our first four hits in the first 2-3 minutes of the battle. What a bunch of garbage! Even worse were the responses such " it is only a display issue, and the feature is working properly" it was never fixed.

I don't know your exact boosts but 7 attacks is just about right, what is the problem there?

Reduction boosts add together by multiplying by one another. 5 faction boosts of -5% is 0.95*0.95*0.95*0.95*0.95.
This is so that people can never actually reach 0 seconds to regen (though hackers get very very close) or negative regens.

Your faction boosts give you a total of about 23% reduction. Add in the 20% from your bridge jumper and thats 0.77*0.80. Giving you a total of a 38% reduction. Given this, you will regen the 25 health it takes to hit someone in 15 minutes and 30 seconds. You've got 4 free hits, a hit at 15:30, another at 31:00 and a final one at 46:30 for a total of 7 hits. The 8th hit is at 62:00, which is clearly after the war is over. There is nothing wrong with your boost if you are getting 7 hits in.

EDIT: Guess i took to long to write that, miner beat me to it.

[Miner]

One in four of my gold regens ended in defeat even though my attack was sometimes nearly double their defence, worst loss was my attack at 140,000 there defence shown at 68,000.

Thats bad, on average i would take on fights were there was a difference of around 50,000 and i could still lose one in four :(

Experiment a little with PVP attacks right now. Check someone's profile before you attack them and record what the defense stat in their profile page, then attack once and check the difference. It can be very substantial. When asking players to check mine, the number they see in the battle result screen is about 100k LOWER than what they see when they view my profile.

And as I mentioned above, don't underestimate the impact skill points have on the outcome of a battle. When you start talking a couple hundred skill points allocated to defense, then impact can be substantial.

[Miner]

EDIT: Guess i took to long to write that, miner beat me to it.

Darn right buddy! Good to see you by the way.

[NaRciS]

Rapg635:

Hey buddy. I don't think I know you and you probably don't know me. Long timer here but haven't been active much lately.

In terms of the health regen, you should be able to get 7 hits in, but that's if you're at full health and you play it tight. There's no margin for error with 5 of the 6 health regens purchased to get a full 7 in. Once you purchase the 6th boost, you'll have a little more cushion, but will still only be able to get 7 hits in.

Here's a table with Regen times for your reference. There are more health regen boosts out there now, but this is just the ones that I personally have. It reads from the top down, with the boosts players are most likely to have at the top.



Boost
Reduced
Value
Regen Time
Formatted
Boss Wait
Time
WD Wait
Time
Max Free Boss
Hits
Max WD Free
Hits


Faction 1/6
0.95
1:35:0
24:42
23:45
13
6


Faction 2/6
0.903
1:30:15
23:28
22:34
15
6


Faction 3/6
0.857
1:25:44
22:18
21:26
15
6


Faction 4/6
0.815
1:21:27
21:11
20:22
15
7


Faction 5/6
0.774
1:17:23
20:7
19:21
15
7


Faction 6/6
0.735
1:13:31
19:7
18:23
17
7


Deadly Bridge Jumper
0.588
0:58:48
15:17
14:42
19
8


Assault Bridge Jumper
0.470
0:47:3
12:14
11:46
23
9


P-91 Pounder
0.329
0:32:56
8:34
8:14
31
11




Now, regarding the other issue.

There is a known issue with the defense stat in the battle screen. Support has recognized that it exists. The issue is that the defense stat DISPLAYED in the battle screen is not considering all the defensive boosts, but the algorithm that determines the outcome of a battle is. Hence the discrepancy. It causes a ton of problems obviously as it is difficult to report reliable intel to your faction members.

My recommendation at the time is to consider all defense numbers to be as much as 25% understated (mine is). Also keep in mind, skill points are considered in the outcome, but not reflected in any displayed stats so even if it was to display the correct defense stat, there still could be battles that you lose in spite of the fact your attack score is higher than the opponents displayed defense score.

Exactly what i needed :)))))

Saved me a lot of time, effort and head scratching !

TOP MAN!

[scatman62801]

Dear GREE,

I am a daily player of your game crime city. However, I have been experiencing some difficulties. First my earn free gold from tapjoy disappeared and I can no longer search tap joy for free gold which was a big help to my player. I have been missing out on big opportunity and losing fights against rivals. Second I have create a funzio account on my mobile device, when i try to contact support it says i must have a mail account set up which i already have. My mafia code is 447 744 447 my email is scatman62801@yahoo.com . Also my funzio id is not the one i put if you can please help me is there a way i can figure it out. I have an iphone and i am not able to get certain buildings how come?
If you can fix these problems i would really apperciate your help thank you.

[Rapg635]

Hey miner, all, as usual thanks for the replies. Miner, thanks for the chart. I guess my problem was after using my first 4 hits, and being at 0 health, my first regen took over 21 minutes. I then used that hit, back to 0. Next 25% regen was down to around 19 minutes. Again, used it and back to zero. Next regen was around 12 minutes. Anyway, thanks for the great explanations, and the chart.
Regarding the "losses" issue. I lost battles, that other faction members with 25k attack less than me, were winning. And these types of losses moved throughout many of our team members.
All in all, I greatly appreciate your time and effort here. I will definitely pass this info along. Thanks all, and have a great day!

[Procyon]

Holy Crap! Miner and JMC! Very nice to see those names out and about.

[jrb22250]

Excellent info.

So why do factions with 4/7 show a Health Reg Bonus of -19%...Is this a GREE rounding problem in the code?

[TheOracle]

Certain types of boost, generally those that make something smaller, fewer or shorter(i.e. "fewer casualties", "shorter upgrade times", "less time till your health refills") have diminishing returns when there are multiple sources of that boost on your account or faction. What that means is, each new source of that boost that you add is slightly less effective. So for instance if you have a 5% health regen boost effect and then another 5% health regen boost is added, you would see a total boost effect of 9%.

This is intentional, because these boosts cannot logically go below zero. It's impossible to have faster-than-instant upgrade times, for instance. Or to have a casualty rate modifier so low that you actually get units back. So for these boost types, we have the diminishing returns effect stated as above. New sources of the boost will still add to your total and progress you, though. Boost effects that ADD something (more attack, more defense, etc.) theoretically have no logical upper limit, and those stack normally (5% extra attack boost + 5% extra attack boost = 10% extra attack boost).

[Lancerdually]

Certain types of boost, generally those that make something smaller, fewer or shorter(i.e. "fewer casualties", "shorter upgrade times", "less time till your health refills") have diminishing returns when there are multiple sources of that boost on your account or faction. What that means is, each new source of that boost that you add is slightly less effective. So for instance if you have a 5% health regen boost effect and then another 5% health regen boost is added, you would see a total boost effect of 9%.

This is intentional, because these boosts cannot logically go below zero. It's impossible to have faster-than-instant upgrade times, for instance. Or to have a casualty rate modifier so low that you actually get units back. So for these boost types, we have the diminishing returns effect stated as above. New sources of the boost will still add to your total and progress you, though. Boost effects that ADD something (more attack, more defense, etc.) theoretically have no logical upper limit, and those stack normally (5% extra attack boost + 5% extra attack boost = 10% extra attack boost).
Then why not put the diminishing percentage as to what the next purchased bonus is if what your saying is that a player with no boost units for health regen but they are in a faction with max health regen bonuses purchased they would still not achieve the 35%.

[Thief]

Then why not put the diminishing percentage as to what the next purchased bonus is if what your saying is that a player with no boost units for health regen but they are in a faction with max health regen bonuses purchased they would still not achieve the 35%.

They don't currently say -35%.

They say -5% for each one. They can't display what a universal % would be because its different for each individual based on their bonuses so they currently have it set up the correct way. What they do for you however is show you what your overall health regen is for your individual player profile so you don't have to manual calculate it.

[Lancerdually]

They don't currently say -35%.

They say -5% for each one. They can't display what a universal % would be because its different for each individual based on their bonuses so they currently have it set up the correct way. What they do for you however is show you what your overall health regen is for your individual player profile so you don't have to manual calculate it.
Thief, with much respect I say this because I have watched you on this board be one the most level headed and helpful individual people posting here.
I agree it does say -5% for each health regen bonus purchase for factions and we can now purchase 7 of these which equates to -35%.....and each one says -5%.........what I am trying to say is this......each says-5% and they must be purchased in succession.......correct? so if you went to the local super market and picked up 7 items that were -5% off each item would you expect to receive a total discount of -35% or would you be happy with -17% or -19% when the advertisement was for -5% each. That's what I am trying to get at......why not show them at a lesser percentage for the next purchase when you have obviously purchased the previous to get to to the next?
No disrespect or argument meant here either.

[Powerbang]

Thief, with much respect I say this because I have watched you on this board be one the most level headed and helpful individual people posting here.
I agree it does say -5% for each health regen bonus purchase for factions and we can now purchase 7 of these which equates to -35%.....and each one says -5%.........what I am trying to say is this......each says-5% and they must be purchased in succession.......correct? so if you went to the local super market and picked up 7 items that were -5% off each item would you expect top receive a total discount of -35% or would you be happy with -17% or -19% when the advertisement was for -5% each. That's what I am trying to get at......why not show them at a lesser percentage for the next purchase when you have obviously purchased the previous to get to to the next?
No disrespect or argument meant here either.

It is a multiplicative effect rather than additive. For the reason Oracle posted... should never go below zero, which is easily doable when adding percentage DECREASES together.

Regarding the display of bonus, its easier to display, especially on a static image a standard percentage, although that may be applied differently to your profile based on the units currently existing in your inventory.

[Lancerdually]

It is a multiplicative effect rather than additive. For the reason Oracle posted... should never go below zero, which is easily doable when adding percentage DECREASES together.

Regarding the display of bonus, its easier to display, especially on a static image a standard percentage, although that may be applied differently to your profile based on the units currently existing in your inventory.
Powerbang, I completely agree and understand the reasoning for the decrease of this stat when a player has units with health regen additions so it would make it less for a person with boost units. What I am trying to get at is, take for instance my LLP, I have him in my faction and we have all 7 of the Health Recovery Time bonuses purchased and I have NO units adding to this so why would my boost here be -30% and not -35%.....as stated no units to add to the rate of regen so why not give the full effect as advertised?

[S&H Max]

Thief, with much respect I say this because I have watched you on this board be one the most level headed and helpful individual people posting here.
I agree it does say -5% for each health regen bonus purchase for factions and we can now purchase 7 of these which equates to -35%.....and each one says -5%.........what I am trying to say is this......each says-5% and they must be purchased in succession.......correct? so if you went to the local super market and picked up 7 items that were -5% off each item would you expect to receive a total discount of -35% or would you be happy with -17% or -19% when the advertisement was for -5% each. That's what I am trying to get at......why not show them at a lesser percentage for the next purchase when you have obviously purchased the previous to get to to the next?
No disrespect or argument meant here either.

Dont know what you do as a living but I work in construction.

When we buy a certain amount of stock we recive a 10% off

also when last year we bougth more than x$ we recive an other 10% off

Also since we have been customer for over x years with over x amount of sale we get an extra 15% off

And you know what on my bills I dont get 35% discount on the raw price, no I get 3 multiplier like in the game

100$ x .9 x .9 x .85 = 68.85$

I know usually in games % are just added and not the rigth formula but I think gree have it rigth on this one...

[Lancerdually]

LOL.....oh well as is the struggles of life.......tomato....tomoto.
Thanks ya'll

[Thief]

Thief, with much respect I say this because I have watched you on this board be one the most level headed and helpful individual people posting here.
I agree it does say -5% for each health regen bonus purchase for factions and we can now purchase 7 of these which equates to -35%.....and each one says -5%.........what I am trying to say is this......each says-5% and they must be purchased in succession.......correct? so if you went to the local super market and picked up 7 items that were -5% off each item would you expect to receive a total discount of -35% or would you be happy with -17% or -19% when the advertisement was for -5% each. That's what I am trying to get at......why not show them at a lesser percentage for the next purchase when you have obviously purchased the previous to get to to the next?
No disrespect or argument meant here either.

First thank you for the kind words....i make alot of posts so not all of them are level headed because i can only tolerate so much sometimes. However i think the problem is your are viewing the Faction Health bonus as one bonus. I''m not arguing that Gree could have made this a single bonus that your upgrading...but they didn't they made it 7 seperate bonuses which is why its calculated the way it is. Personally i would love to have 35% as it would take off a bigger chunk of my time vs. the small 5% bonuses where i'm at.

As for your example not trying to be a smart ass but if i picked up 7 items that were 5% off...i would expect my bill to be 5% off.

Now if i had a coupon for 35% off i would expect to get 35% off.

If i had 7 coupons for 5% off that were allowed to stack i would expect to recieve .3127737 or 30% off.

[Mcdoc]

wow - awesome posts by Miner, JMC, and a Thief - this kind if thread is what this forum used to be all about :)

[ju100]

First thank you for the kind words....i make alot of posts so not all of them are level headed because i can only tolerate so much sometimes. However i think the problem is your are viewing the Faction Health bonus as one bonus. I''m not arguing that Gree could have made this a single bonus that your upgrading...but they didn't they made it 7 seperate bonuses which is why its calculated the way it is. Personally i would love to have 35% as it would take off a bigger chunk of my time vs. the small 5% bonuses where i'm at.

As for your example not trying to be a smart ass but if i picked up 7 items that were 5% off...i would expect my bill to be 5% off.

Now if i had a coupon for 35% off i would expect to get 35% off.

If i had 7 coupons for 5% off that were allowed to stack i would expect to recieve .3127737 or 30% off.

I'm not posting often, but I wanted to thank you this time Thief!
You try to explain simply every time someone asks about those Health bonus. You do it nicely every time and you try to give the best and easier to understand explanation and examples.
But still, people are complaning about those -35% they do not have...
Your "buying 7 items at -5% and expecting a -5% on the bill" example is by far the best answer to the poster wanting -35% on his bill!

Again : Thank you!

[Lancerdually]

Thanks to everyone for the answers......I was hoping to get someone from Gree to comment, which is why I kept pressing the issue, but alas, this will not happen. I understand fully how it works but really wanted Gree to comment. Anyways thanks.
And Thief......you are always level headed....just because I don't always comment on your post don't mean that I don't read them. ALWAYS a great help on this forum!