Error in new Update / Patch

[mee notyou]

Our guild has a website in which we keep a team roster on. While updating this roster I noticed everyones stats had dropped about 20-30k from what they were before the update, which is weird considering my own went up and members of my guild were also saying theirs went up. When we starting to compare stats, we noticed that what we see is not the same as what others see. As I will not post my actual stats here...we will use a general example. Before the update, I had 325k/300k stats, and this is what others saw when they looked at my profile. After the update, when I look at my own profile, I see 340k/335k, yet when a member of my guild looks at my profile, they see 295k/275k.

I am not sure what influence this has on actual stats or on the Battle List. Can anyone who knows more about algorithms chime in. Thx

[Shinazueli]

This is likely what has been present in MW since the beginning. Your boosts aren't shown to your enemies. Just to you. Which means people need to be even more careful when attacking.

[JPFAS]

This makes no sense. Now there are two stats, the ones that you see and the ones that others see? Which one of those are used in battles? Why the other? This has to be a glitch and it must be corrected.

[Shinazueli]

The one you see is the one that is your "boosted" stats. This one was hidden from you until this update. It is, and was always, the one used in battles. Your opponent can only see your "unboosted" stats, making attacking a more tricky proposition. Just be thankful, in MW even your building boosts counted in that, not just the unit boosts. And they have a gem building called the Composites Factory, that gives +20% defense. I've gotten used to looking for this building specifically for this reason. It's also the reason I know about this. Because over there you can look at someone's profile and if they've upgraded their boosts then the profile amount can be off by like 40%. (And people have been known to place that building properly so you can't see it's level). Here, outside of the perennial top ten guilds, its likely only 5% off, if that. There just aren't that many unit boosts yet. Just keep in mind when viewing an opponents profile that it can only be higher than you see, never lower.

No change has been made to your battle stats. Before this update, your boosts were being applied just the same, and used in battle just the same. It's just that you can see them now.

Like I said above, this is likely the trade off we had to make to be able to see our boosts before 2014.

[JPFAS]

I'll have to buy your explanation for now. Thank you.

As I understand it, nothing really changed in battle, unless now I can see my own boosted stats that were already there.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, though. Why shouldn't rivals see your boosted stats? I thought that the element of uncertainty was introduced by a random multiplier in battles.

[MindMachine]

Shinazueli's explanation is correct,I confirmed it by adding my HLP to my LLP as allies and there is a difference when you see the A/D :)

[Shinazueli]

I'll have to buy your explanation for now. Thank you.

As I understand it, nothing really changed in battle, unless now I can see my own boosted stats that were already there.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, though. Why shouldn't rivals see your boosted stats? I thought that the element of uncertainty was introduced by a random multiplier in battles.

I'm assuming its because allowing opponents to see boosted stats would require rewriting the core Battle List coding. Which would take a long, long, long time, and they'd probably break something else while they were in there. It's not purposely done, but apparently it's too difficult for them to change, at least in MW.

And the random multiplier is also added in. This just makes it that much harder to know for sure you'll win.

[gtm]

thx for your theory Shinazueli, but i think it's much more complicated. i have multiple accounts and tested a bit - there are 4 different ways of seeing somebodies stats:

1.) looking @ his own profile: all boosts are shown now, before the update only the building boosts where shown

2.) looking @ rival profile (through invade): all boosts are shown (same as looking @ his own profile)

3.) attacking rivial: own att is with all stats boosts, rivals def is only with building boosts (same number as before the update)

4.) looking @ profile from guild member lists: this is LOWER then before the upgrade - i don't know what number is shown here, but its too high to be unboosted and too low to have all building boosts

these are just the numbers that are shown on the UI, so we still don't know which numbers are taken into the server-side battle-calculation. but the fact that the same player's stats are shown as 3 different number-sets makes me question that the battle calculation really works correctly.

[Shinazueli]

I'm sorry, I'm only repeating what I know to be fact in MW, the only theory is if it's the same bug.

The one that is used in battle has always been the boosted unit and building stats. It looks from your report that it's only guild members that are affected, and the attack results. Neither of which matter as much as being able to see boosts, to me. If its showing correctly on your rivals profile, that's awesome. Idc about the results screen, or members.

[Q-Ball]

I second what Shinazueli has said, and i don't take it to be theory. It's the same as MW. They're trying to make both games similar in this regard.

[Shinazueli]

I second what Shinazueli has said, and i don't take it to be theory. It's the same as MW. They're trying to make both games similar in this regard.

I think what happened was this :

Customer Service Manager "the players want to see their boosts."
Developer : "we can show them, but the coding in the battle list is a year old and not set up for that, the same bug will happen as has in MW!"
CSM : "the customer is always right"
D : "okay, but I'm going to hold my I told you so, until next week when they find out."

[gtm]

I second what Shinazueli has said, and i don't take it to be theory. It's the same as MW. They're trying to make both games similar in this regard.

it's not the same as MW yet - in MW you don't see complete boosted stats when you invade/visit another players base.

[Shinazueli]

it's not the same as MW yet - in MW you don't see complete boosted stats when you invade/visit another players base.

It's better. Still not the best, but better.

[bfdill]

There just aren't that many unit boosts yet. Just keep in mind when viewing an opponents profile that it can only be higher than you see, never lower.

I don't have them, but aren't there units that decrement the opponents number of allies (maybe more than just that)? It *could* be lower, right? ;-) Probably not, I'm a bonehead...

[Shinazueli]

Not very many have to worry about it, but yes. I'm assuming those players also have the stats to not worry about it.

[Zenobia]

So... Let me get this straight: I invade a kingdom and look at his defense. Then look at my offense to compare to his defense to see if I want to attack. Except I am comparing my boosted number to his unboosted one. In other words, apples to oranges. Is that correct?

I guess I can figure out a rule of thumb for converting the unboosted to the real number but it would vary a lot based not only on all their boost building levels but also what percentage of their army is what type of unit to receive what boost, and what percentage of their number is equipment which gets no boost, not to mention one would have to scroll through all their units and know offhand which units give what boosts as well, in order to estimate their real number... Which, yeah none of that is going to happen or it would take all day. What a pain in the a$$!

[Shinazueli]

It's not that complicated. Take the number you see and conservatively assume its 10% higher. If you could still beat it, you should be fine. And they are telling me that the profile screen is accurate anyway, it's just the gchat menu that's messed up. So not applicable to KA. Still helpful, I think. And we did ask for it. Another case of be careful what you wish for.

I mean, seriously, I'm not going to be hitting someone that close to me anyway. Why open myself up to retribution and raiding for no reason?

[bfdill]

I agree totally with respect to farming on weaker players to avoid retribution. What seems to be missing here is the defensive buildings. Is that in the 10% fudge factor? Man are those things totally worthless then or what?

[Klassenr@hotmail.com]

It's not that complicated. Take the number you see and conservatively assume its 10% higher. If you could still beat it, you should be fine. And they are telling me that the profile screen is accurate anyway, it's just the gchat menu that's messed up. So not applicable to KA. Still helpful, I think. And we did ask for it. Another case of be careful what you wish for.

I mean, seriously, I'm not going to be hitting someone that close to me anyway. Why open myself up to retribution and raiding for no reason?

We have players in our guild with 20% differences.

[Shinazueli]

But that's only on the guild menu,yes? They are telling me the rivals profile is accurate.

[Rawrimabear]

CSM : "the customer is always right"


Said no one at Gree, ever.

[Klassenr@hotmail.com]

But that's only on the guild menu,yes? They are telling me the rivals profile is accurate.

I'm not sure.

[Shinazueli]

Well, I can only go based off reports, as I don't raid or attack much. If the rivals profile is accurate it's a non issue. If its not, it's a bug that's likely to stay that way, so you may as well know how it works.

[Klassenr@hotmail.com]

Well, I can only go based off reports, as I don't raid or attack much. If the rivals profile is accurate it's a non issue. If its not, it's a bug that's likely to stay that way, so you may as well know how it works.

What i have veified is, If you look at a rivals stats before you attack you will see a different number on the SS after you attack. At least its happening for me.

[Shinazueli]

Yeah that was reported. The most important number is the one shown on the profile page. The others are irrelevant.

[Polgara's Daughter]

Regarding difference between opponent defence on profile and battle result screens:
Thanks for all the great information.
My guild members report seeing this for some opponents and not others.
May not matter as profile screen appears to have correct defence stats.
Still, we wonder if difference may only show for players who have not updated,
with battle result defence still not showing boosts.
Alternatively, lack of difference could be due to players having updated but having no boosts?
Sorry if this is irrelevant, or I missed something, but mysteries disturb me.

[JPFAS]

What is the logical explanation for the fact that stats that you see on the profile screen before the attack, are different of those you see in the results screen right after the attack, for the same rival, with the interval of a few seconds? Do the stats change during an attack? I don't think so.

I still don't buy it. Now you have 3 different stats for the same player:

1) the ones you see yourself on your profile;
2) the ones that rivals see on your profile;
3) the ones that rivals see on the result screen after an attack.

Makes no sense to me. It's a mess.

[Polgara's Daughter]

Might make sense if non-building boosts still not active:
Profile shows all boosts in def stats
Battle result shows what is really used in defending

Thus, maybe stats do not change in seconds, but were always different.

Also, has anyone had a rival report back what they view as your stats?

[Shinazueli]

Guys, I don't understand what's confusing here. I'll attempt to restate.
The number on your profile is the number used in battle.
The number you see on your rivals profile is the one that is used in battle.
The numbers you see when viewing guild members, viewing ally profiles, or after a battle/raid are all incorrectly low to various degrees due to missing some boosts.

The takeaway here is that we asked to see our boosts, and they gave it to us. The most important numbers are correct: your profile and rivals' profiles.

If I had to guess, in order to fix this they would need to rewrite some pretty old code, and risk messing up all sorts of things. So, it will probably be a while.

[bfdill]

What is the logical explanation for the fact that stats that you see on the profile screen before the attack, are different of those you see in the results screen right after the attack, for the same rival, with the interval of a few seconds? Do the stats change during an attack? I don't think so.

I still don't buy it. Now you have 3 different stats for the same player:

1) the ones you see yourself on your profile;
2) the ones that rivals see on your profile;
3) the ones that rivals see on the result screen after an attack.

Makes no sense to me. It's a mess.

I totally agree. On top of that, what I don't understand is assuming you're seeing accurate scores what actually determines the outcome of a battle? What difference actually guarantees a win/loss? I swear I've lost to what seems like a ridiculous gap in scores attacking or defending.

Unexpected losses seem to occur more during defense than attacks though. Attacks are typically more stable, but I've been raided by some real WTF score differences.

[Shinazueli]

Do you mean raided by building or attacks while over vault? There's a very large difference. It seems the designers wanted to encourage collecting on time, so they added like a -20% defense penalty to "raids". This used to be very easy to see when the after battle screen was accurate.

[Polgara's Daughter]

Guys, I don't understand what's confusing here. I'll attempt to restate.
The number on your profile is the number used in battle.
The number you see on your rivals profile is the one that is used in battle.
The numbers you see when viewing guild members, viewing ally profiles, or after a battle/raid are all incorrectly low to various degrees due to missing some boosts.

The takeaway here is that we asked to see our boosts, and they gave it to us. The most important numbers are correct: your profile and rivals' profiles.

If I had to guess, in order to fix this they would need to rewrite some pretty old code, and risk messing up all sorts of things. So, it will probably be a while.

Thanks for taking the time to restate. Is clear now...sorry to be in the slow class.

[mee notyou]

Do you mean raided by building or attacks while over vault? There's a very large difference. It seems the designers wanted to encourage collecting on time, so they added like a -20% defense penalty to "raids". This used to be very easy to see when the after battle screen was accurate.

Hahaha so we should just add a zero to the end of whatever stats we see as a buffer ;)

[Mickeytah]

This is likely what has been present in MW since the beginning. Your boosts aren't shown to your enemies. Just to you. Which means people need to be even more careful when attacking.

This also explains why people you think you should be able to beat you can't and people you think shouldn't be able to beat you can.

[Shinazueli]

That's just the RNG they coded into it from the beginning, Mickey. This is just more. :)

[BanDroid]

Interesting..keeping a website, I wouldnt mind joining your guild ;)

[JPNy]

OK I understand which view is accurate and which is not. Thank you for that important information !

But on the cause of these different views, I can't imagine this is done on purpose ! Why prevent an ally or a guildmate to see accurate view of other profiles ??? While other players can see it well before attacking.
That's why I think that it is effectively a bug (old or not) but not a difficult to solve.
Indeed all the data view given are the result of DB requests. If I can read the accurate view of my stats when opening my profile, an ally or a guildmate should easily be able to view the same data when opening my profile (using the same requests)...

[Shinazueli]

Oh I know. If I had to guess they had to make a choice between rewriting a year old code and waiting on that to be done before showing us the boosts properly; or doing what they did and only showing the boosts in certain places where the code was easier to change. You've got to understand, if they mess up the battle list, it would get ugly quickly. It's happened in the other games, and it can take forever to fix. I've seen huge bugs in MW and MQ and wouldn't wish for any amount of boost showing if it meant bringing those bugs here. This one doesn't affect gameplay, so I'm ok living with it while they have their two code monkeys assigned to KA rewrite the code.

[Shinazueli]

Case in point: with the new MW update, some players have increased building upgrade costs from boosts instead of reduced. We have it good if its just this little bug to worry about.