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View Full Version : Huge losses in battle to rivals 25K+ lower in defense



archambeau
04-27-2013, 07:47 AM
I can see if this was occasional but of 59 members in my faction this is every battle every player. We have high skill points in attack and amazing stats. I lose two of four hits to someone with 80K defense and I have 106K attack and boost buildings leveled up. Not losing units but losing the war too often. I never have this problem when attacking outside of battle. I usually attack blind and have 13K wins and less than 2K losses. I am half and half for Ireland so far as are many of our members. Just want to know if anyone else is noticing this

Rowdydowdy
04-27-2013, 07:56 AM
Yep, half our crew is *****ing about the same thing. Wasting gold getting refills only to lose when we should have won the fight.

Surfing
04-27-2013, 08:03 AM
Same here.


What the heck are we buying gold for if the game is unpredictable...

HunterKiller
04-27-2013, 08:13 AM
Same here, sent a ticket but only got the bs response about how it is all skill points.
I attack around 1,000 people a week for pvp and never have this problem until this war, so they have definetly messed with something they shouldn't have.

mxz
04-27-2013, 08:21 AM
Same. I've lost somewhere north of 1/3 of fights when my ATK is 25-40% higher than their defense), or their defense is 20-30% lower than my attack (means the same thing...just different math).

Rowdydowdy
04-27-2013, 08:46 AM
Tired of wasting gold and getting no response for three weeks.

General Flame
04-27-2013, 01:05 PM
It may be a stat bug. Usually people read my stats differently from their point of view.

FromAfar
04-27-2013, 01:23 PM
So it's like going to Vegas, and playing blackjack.

Your holding 19. The dealer has a 3 showing, AND DOESN'T HIT. and you lose!

Show the calculated score of the battle for each side. Me and the enemy!

NaRciS
04-27-2013, 01:43 PM
It may be a stat bug. Usually people read my stats differently from their point of view.

Could be... my faction see me at 89k defence and I am 140,000 with boosts.

I have lost to someone at 69,000 defence with me at 110,000 attack

What fun

RollTide
04-27-2013, 02:33 PM
Same here. Only happens to high lvl high a/d stat players. Sent tickets in to support. One sent PM to CJ- nothing. Between faction, WD, and individual boosts we should not be seeing this.

Generik79
04-27-2013, 02:42 PM
...We have high skill points in attack and amazing stats. I lose two of four hits to someone with 80K defense and I have 106K attack and boost buildings leveled up. ...

I have losses where I am 125,000 ahead of them--more than your total "amazing" attack stat. ;-)

UPDATE: I was rude. I will leave my post there, unless asked to take it down by archambeau, in order to shame myself for being mean. Your point was well taken. The losses are staggering and not understandable. And 106k is a solid attack score. Keep working at it. If I can be of help, pm me. As for my rudeness, sorry. I wrote this when I was thinking about GREE, the hacking, their response, and this game, which really pissed me off. I apologize.

Josh611
04-27-2013, 03:07 PM
I have 140k attack and have lost to 86k defense. It is what it is. Nothing we can do to change it

DFI
04-27-2013, 04:04 PM
The question is how much of a wild card is defensive skill points. I notice that when I am attacked outside of the WD events, I am a 50/50 target for people with stats 30k above me, and given my level, that would equate to 40% above me. So I win some and lose some. I am sure the loser is very unhappy. For people at my same stat level, I hardly lose when attacked.

HunterKiller
04-27-2013, 05:39 PM
If the defense points played a part in the outcome of the battle, then either show the points or the effect of the points so we understand why we lost. At the moment all I know is that I should only hit people I can absolutely anihilate, and ignore everyone else, even if their stats say I should be able to beat them. I just done a survey Gree sent me after my last ticket, and this was one of the issues I challenged them to improve, and I would encourage others to do the same. Let them know what issues you have with the game so they can fix it.

archambeau
04-27-2013, 10:30 PM
Hey I've been playing only 4-5 months no apology necessary. I'm a big CC player with two members and two years exp and have never seen this in raids or battles. It's sick really

Kyle51
04-27-2013, 10:44 PM
I lost to someone with 80k less defense than my attack this has got to stop. At least when the attack and defense stats fluctuated more you could see why you were losing right now it just shows me with 80k higher defense and a loss... Unbelievably frustrating

Mcdoc
04-28-2013, 01:46 AM
Try explaining a visible 520k attack losing to a visible 310k defense - smh.

I got pics.

Q Raider
04-28-2013, 02:07 AM
Try explaining a visible 520k attack losing to a visible 310k defense - smh.

I got pics.

310k base

Add 110k to that to account for building and unit bonuses takes it to 520k Vs 420k

Factor in they get a high end roll on the "strong against" factor AND the random number Vs you getting zip from your strong against and a low random number and it's possible (obviously as you got the piccie)

I have a piccie going the other way of a 285k attack winning over a 485k def on a fat fingered oops of a DL when actually going for the wall (was in the car and it got bumpy).....then next attack I lost to a 200k Defence.

cuzen
04-28-2013, 03:32 AM
310k base

Add 110k to that to account for building and unit bonuses takes it to 520k Vs 420k

Factor in they get a high end roll on the "strong against" factor AND the random number Vs you getting zip from your strong against and a low random number and it's possible (obviously as you got the piccie)

I have a piccie going the other way of a 285k attack winning over a 485k def on a fat fingered oops of a DL when actually going for the wall (was in the car and it got bumpy).....then next attack I lost to a 200k Defence.

I hope to hell you don't kill someone while driving and playing !!!

Q Raider
04-28-2013, 04:16 AM
I hope to hell you don't kill someone while driving and playing !!!

Now that did make me chuckle.

Assumption is the mother of all stuff ups :-)

I was IN the car does NOT mean I was driving it.......that is Victor's job, it is his car after all......

Shawshank
04-28-2013, 06:43 AM
Same deal. Right around that 25k distance too.

Thenoob
04-28-2013, 08:43 AM
My hole faction is also dealing with this. It suck when your using gold and you lose when it looks like you should win

Probably lost about 100 gold because of this

bcodemz
04-28-2013, 09:27 AM
You think that's bad? I lost to a person when I had SIX TIMES their stats. Almost threw my phone.

NaRciS
04-28-2013, 09:40 AM
The biggest problem is are the stat figures correct in the first place... I got this picture from one of my members about my stats bottom figures are what he sees, the top figures are what I see, admittedly i took 4 extra allies but the difference of 73,000 on attack (he sees a third of my real stat?) and 60,000 defence my boosts are not that high, also I just noticed he shows 1964 units whereas I have 5569, i thought i might mean usable but its still out a little.

I agree with every 4 attacks on someone in which i double there stats, Im losing one?

3286

Tctiger
04-28-2013, 09:41 AM
Something is not right everyone is losing when they should win and it seems like gree have taken a big % of everyone's def away too.

NaRciS
04-28-2013, 09:54 AM
I have never lost to anyone with less then half my stats, these findings are also cropping when attacking rival list but a lot less often...

Rival list i can adjust my plan and live with it, but buying gold to regen health and losing one in 4 is not good.

Worst loss so far was to a player with 28,000 defence compared with 115,000 attack, in the team he was the only one we could hit... lol

FromAfar
04-28-2013, 12:33 PM
GREE, CJ, ADMIN,

you guys need to resolve this issue!

next time you watch a baseball game, or any sport, or go to vegas, try explaining why the guy with the winning score or hand lost! YEAH!!! by GREE's logic, the 49's won the superbowl!!! because the score displayed around the world didn't display the hidden boost and random figures!

you logic is completely screwed up!

display the result of the battle. the number ACTUALLY CALCULATED FOR ME AND THE ENEMY. somewhere behind the scenes, you are "calculating" a number for each side. simply display it. if it has random and other features, fine, but display what is actually calculated.

if this number CURRENTLY BEING DISPLAY is completely meaningless, AND IT IS!!! REMOVE IT! what good does it do?

i deal in an environment that is heavily regulated, i would love to see a regulator type, especially the kind i deal with, grab old of you guys! your company would have all the revenue FERR and PUN provide being due in fines and violations, and bankruptcy would be the next step in your business plan!

soulnmysole
04-28-2013, 12:56 PM
Yea this is fukking crazy. I've lost to several player with stats that were half good as mine.

Tits_McGee
04-28-2013, 01:06 PM
That's ridiculous that you guys have been losing battles that are that lopsided. Hasn't happened to me or anyone else in my faction. Knock on wood though lol.

GQNammmer
04-28-2013, 01:19 PM
25k? Psshhh

One World
04-28-2013, 04:00 PM
I have come across players with high stats and low IPH. Their base is small with few upgrades. I looked at their inventory to see why. I found these players have 100 or so of this and that. Doing that skews the stats IMO. My stats were half this players, yet if I attacked given the thrust of this thread I would probably have beaten this player. If you play this way your base is swiss cheese.

Rowdydowdy
04-28-2013, 04:04 PM
I sent a ticket in, but I already know the response!

I actually took pics of the lose and then found the same guy on my rival list and took pics of everything there. 15k higher in stats with boost buildings to his none. WTF?
And yes it's the same guy I found a post in his forum from his faction leader who the faction is named after.

Scotch Ego
04-29-2013, 02:00 AM
My faction has been reporting the same issue as well. I'm losing about 1/4 to players with up to 60k lower defence to my attack. I'm surprised there hasn't been a sticky thread on this failure.

It's certainly not what we pay for...

Tournai
04-29-2013, 02:28 AM
I takes my Fun away! indeed 25K difference with AA and AD, seems that we all have this problem!

GREE Fix this and Compensate us! cause you can not turn back my losses!

Be glad I dit not make 10 Tickets with screenshots, because it will make no difference!

Dutchie
04-29-2013, 02:54 AM
They're laughing...

http://i39.tinypic.com/24zlz7q.jpg


http://i41.tinypic.com/rl9rft.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/fbm1ro.jpg

DFI
04-29-2013, 04:55 AM
Just wondering, have you guys asked other players to tell you your unboosted stats? You got to compare apples to apples. If you have certain boosts, do does your rival. So compare your unboosted stats, and if you still are 30% higher than the guy you lost too, then perhaps you have a legitimate beef. In most cases, I would suspect that your unboosted stats are in the same neighborhood.

Dutchie
04-29-2013, 05:00 AM
Just wondering, have you guys asked other players to tell you your unboosted stats? You got to compare apples to apples. If you have certain boosts, do does your rival. So compare your unboosted stats, and if you still are 30% higher than the guy you lost too, then perhaps you have a legitimate beef. In most cases, I would suspect that your unboosted stats are in the same neighborhood.

Raw, cooked, boosted, unboosted... it doesn't matter as the final battle report says my score is higher and I still lose! GREE are the masters of obfuscation.

NaRciS
04-29-2013, 07:33 AM
Raw, cooked, boosted, unboosted... it doesn't matter as the final battle report says my score is higher and I still lose! GREE are the masters of obfuscation.

I agree with Dutchie, the final boosted scores should be shown to confirm the defeat.

Ozzeh
04-29-2013, 08:08 AM
Everyone still having issues? We are a faction of 42 our highest attack is 139k and our highest defense is 140k. Our lowest member is only 27k attack and only 32k def. We are facing factions with and avg. of 100k def and run up against some who are 200k and 400k.... How much did you widen the "perimeters" that you speak of? We have never face this tough of a crowd and have finished top 250...

Dutchie
04-30-2013, 03:29 AM
@Ozzeh - That is faction matching issue and nothing to do with the Battle Report showing that your attack is higher than the defense of the rival you are attacking AND losing!

@CJ - This really needs to be addressed. The Battle Report should show the final number that is used to determine whether you win or lose. Do I need to create a ticket or will you be looking into this? The difference between Attack and Defense scores is up to 25% in some cases even more and that is misleading. Why such a big variance? 5% is acceptable, but this hidden 25% is ridiculous.

GTZ
04-30-2013, 07:10 AM
Ridiculous - consistently losing to players with 15-20k lower def than my att and we are same level +\- 1 so it's not due to a big difference in total skill points.

Draale
04-30-2013, 07:46 AM
There's obviously a variance of luck built in to give the little guy a chance to win. So no matter how much your Atk is higher than their def, they will always have a chance to win. And if your 100k Atk, I'd like to see screenshots after the WD event showing your final win/loss numbers. I see most high level players at like 5000 wins / 200 losses or something like that or even better win/loss ratio. I have a hard time believing at those Atk numbers, your final score is something like 6000 wins / 2000 losses which would be 1 loss every 4 attacks

cook976
04-30-2013, 09:13 AM
can we just settle this by showing the boosted stats instead of unboosted? we are all trying to do generalized math in our heads to figure out what the boosted stats are anyway, just show them and be done with it.

Anjunbeats
04-30-2013, 09:24 AM
I am experiencing the same.. I lost so many battles in the last war I should have won, that I was not even tempted to buy gold.

lakelander
04-30-2013, 09:47 AM
I too, am tired of distorted and convoluted scoring. Lost many times in the WD event with 95kA vs 55-65kdef. Not too long before the WD event, I noticed some weird stats with rivals. I would see, for instance, the def stat of the rival in their profile of 80k. Attack, win, and their battle stat would be 68k def. It has been consistently showing, for me, less def than their profile on 90% of the occasions. Used to be a higher value after the attack which would have been from the boost I didn't see in their profile. I thought something weird was going on, and of course, can't explain it.

Now enter BfIreland. Lose to people much lower than myself. I always thought the stat after the battle for both attack person and defense person was the "true" stat, not the raw one. My stats showing on the "you win" or "you lost" screen are the boosted ones, so why wouldn't my opponent's be the same? Please,please fix this. Thanks to all for sharing your plight too. I thought I was going bonkers.

Dutchie
05-01-2013, 03:31 AM
I too, am tired of distorted and convoluted scoring. Lost many times in the WD event with 95kA vs 55-65kdef. Not too long before the WD event, I noticed some weird stats with rivals. I would see, for instance, the def stat of the rival in their profile of 80k. Attack, win, and their battle stat would be 68k def. It has been consistently showing, for me, less def than their profile on 90% of the occasions. Used to be a higher value after the attack which would have been from the boost I didn't see in their profile. I thought something weird was going on, and of course, can't explain it.

Now enter BfIreland. Lose to people much lower than myself. I always thought the stat after the battle for both attack person and defense person was the "true" stat, not the raw one. My stats showing on the "you win" or "you lost" screen are the boosted ones, so why wouldn't my opponent's be the same? Please,please fix this. Thanks to all for sharing your plight too. I thought I was going bonkers.

Nah mate, you're not bonkers... GREE are!

JCL
05-01-2013, 03:41 AM
With well over 3,000 raids over the last couple months, I'm pretty familiar with the normal outcomes. They've changed something since Ireland. I built a Med Center right before Ireland and upgraded it to level 3, however my losses now are at least 300% higher than prior-Ireland, Pre-Med Center. I can raid a level 1 cash, with no defense building remotely close, and lose KC-130s, Rocket Launcher dude and a Sniper on just one raid of someone 60% of my stats, same level.

Drama Llama
05-01-2013, 04:58 AM
They used to show the fluctuating stats and everyone moaned about it not being right. Now they just show the unboosted stats of your opponent and everyone is getting confused as to why they got beaten, not sure gree can win on this one to be fair.
Oh I know they coud remove all mention of stats entirely in the results screen ... That might make WD more strategically challenging!

RedCloud
05-01-2013, 05:41 AM
It should never be the case that an attack reports shows you bringing a higher attack value than your opponent's defense and yet you lose. If there's randomness in the attack equation (which there obviously is) it should be reflected in the final numbers on the report. Otherwise, the report completely misrepresents what actually happened. Why bother providing a false report that can't be used to learn something about what you should expect in future attacks? Either give us something meaningful, or dispense with the numbers altogether.

mistergreen
05-01-2013, 05:44 AM
I too, am tired of distorted and convoluted scoring. Lost many times in the WD event with 95kA vs 55-65kdef. Not too long before the WD event, I noticed some weird stats with rivals. I would see, for instance, the def stat of the rival in their profile of 80k. Attack, win, and their battle stat would be 68k def. It has been consistently showing, for me, less def than their profile on 90% of the occasions. Used to be a higher value after the attack which would have been from the boost I didn't see in their profile. I thought something weird was going on, and of course, can't explain it.

How many "strong against" units do you have? That's the only way to reduce an opponent's stats.

lakelander
05-01-2013, 11:36 AM
@mistergreen. The majority of my units are "strong against" something units. Didn't realize that it would reduce stats of opponent. thank you.

Bosc
05-01-2013, 11:36 AM
Makes no sense to spend gold when the algorithm changes mid stream!

Arj
05-01-2013, 11:46 AM
Im not sure about this, just going by what Ive seen but when you add stat points to Attack or Defense i don't believe your stats change, but we do know they do something(i hope at least). If a ''stat hacker'' maxes his defense out, then this could be why people hit him and lose. Surely there is a hacker out there smart enough to realize energy hacking is easy to find and see, cash hacking as well, but just stat hacking it not so easy to find. I also think this only explains certain occurrences, because if this is true then im sure there is players that don't hack out there who are level 200 with all their points in defense, and that would cause people to lose to them with higher attacks. This maybe not at all whats going on but I did occur to me to be a possible solution when reading another thread about how to spot a stat hacker.

Zandeko
05-01-2013, 12:09 PM
I hope someone has told you people by now...

The stats you see on your profile are with boosts. The stats you see on others profiles are without the boosts.
When people view your profile they see it without the boosts, thus they see your stats lower than what you see.

Anyway... It is possible GREE changed the skill point algorithm. I hope not, it was already too random. I barely ever attack or raid anymore. This game is loosing the small strategy it used to have.

Scoucer
05-01-2013, 01:02 PM
I always just assumed that individual bonuses were added into stats but faction bonuses aren't, it's logical because if you leave your faction you can't take those bonuses with you, has anyone left their faction and seen a change in stats?

Jman
05-01-2013, 01:33 PM
has anyone left their faction and seen a change in stats?
Yeah your stats change. I moved up the ladder a couple of months ago and my stats were lower when I was waiting to be accepting into my new faction.

STinger702
05-01-2013, 02:29 PM
A couple members have been having this issue, sent in tickets and never got a response... Happened to a member today too. :-/

[CM]]forgetaboutit
05-01-2013, 03:02 PM
I think they did that on purpose to make you spend more gold
I wouldn't put it past them as they are GREEdy

Arnaud
05-02-2013, 12:49 AM
This morning, someone attacked me and I lost:

1) My defense is 50% superior from the attack I see on his profile (apple)
2) He has only a couple LV1 boost building when I have all the boost building >LV7 (including composites factory)
3) I benefit from great faction boost and other rewards from events
4) He can't have more skill points than me either since ALMOST ALL my skills went to A/D since I started playing the game and he is the same level as me (and even if it was the skill points, a 50% gap is too big to explain it).

How is this possible that I lose? Can anyone explain me?

lakelander
05-02-2013, 07:43 AM
I think most of us understand what the profile stats screen vs what their "real" stats are. My point is that the final battle results screen should show what really happened. I have attacked a rival with 103k and saw in his profile 91k def. I decided to take a chance (knowing this is probably low) and won. The battle screen showed me with 103k attack but the rival had 57k def. A negative 34k from his profile. Conversely, I have seen 80k def in rival's profile and after battle screen shows me with 103k and rival at 95k and I lose. I would normally expect that because of their potential boosts. I don't, like all the others, understand a loss to a rival, if the battle results screen shows me with 103k attack and the rival with only 55k def. Either something is majorly hidden, or the formula is screwed up. I just want the final result of stats to be the true final results. Otherwise, why bother. Just have win or lose.

archambeau
05-06-2013, 05:44 PM
Sticking to crime city myself