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NastyFaceNinja
04-04-2013, 11:23 AM
I am new to the forums and I am trying to follow and understand discussions in other post regarding this issue.

I understand you should lose units, but the rate at which I am losing units now is crazy. It doesn't seem right that it takes 120 some fights to be awarded 2000 valor and lose 250+ units only to be able to replace 2 maybe 3 units. If I upgrade my hospital will it compensate for the losses? I spend some money on this game but I can't afford to have an entirely indestructible army.

Poopenshire
04-04-2013, 11:37 AM
the more unbalanced your units are, the more you will lose. each unit has a casualty rate. example Brigand lighting has a 2.5% casualty rate. that means on the most basic level 40 of these units will have an effective 100% casualty rate for that unit. each unit has its own rate and cumulative effect. now on top of that please understand Gree has added a defined casualty amount for certain actions. these can override the casualty of the units themselves.

NastyFaceNinja
04-04-2013, 01:07 PM
Okay still trying to follow you on this.
I have (or had lol) about 160 Harden Marines, 630 Expert Attack Drones, 700 Elite Ops Choppers, 590 Elite Water Cruisers, 1 Wavebreaker, 2 Riptide Runners, and I have about 300 Indestructible units mix in. I can only bring in 2000 units so I know I wont be using any of the Harden Marines (well I am now from severe losses).
I should be farming units like the Brigand Lighting (where exactly does that drop from btw) and buying other valor units to diversify my army? wont I still lose the same amout of units just spread out over a variety of them? I am less likely to lose units I have less of? Although I just lost my Wavebreaker my feelings are still hurt morning the loss of that lovely ship so lets not talk about that one lol.

Poopenshire
04-04-2013, 01:16 PM
Okay still trying to follow you on this.
I have (or had lol) about 160 Harden Marines, 630 Expert Attack Drones, 700 Elite Ops Choppers, 590 Elite Water Cruisers, 1 Wavebreaker, 2 Riptide Runners, and I have about 300 Indestructible units mix in. I can only bring in 2000 units so I know I wont be using any of the Harden Marines (well I am now from severe losses).
I should be farming units like the Brigand Lighting (where exactly does that drop from btw) and buying other valor units to diversify my army? wont I still lose the same amout of units just spread out over a variety of them? I am less likely to lose units I have less of? Although I just lost my Wavebreaker my feelings are still hurt morning the loss of that lovely ship so lets not talk about that one lol.

160 HM = 160 x 0.4% = 64% cas rate for this unit
630 EAD = 630 x 0.4% = 252% cas rate for this unit
700 EOH = 700 x 0.3% = 210% cas rate for this unit
590 EWC = 590 x 0.15% = 88.5% cas rate for this unit

based on this alone you could see 614.5% casualties per attack.

Brigands are 2.5 % cas rate so you should way fewer of them. SE Africa Map / Hidden missle Base area / Command HQ 88% drop rate

NastyFaceNinja
04-04-2013, 01:27 PM
How did you figure out the percentages? Is there a chart somewhere that can be referenced outside of the game? Thanks for your help you guys are awesome ohh and tell PIRATE JUSTICE to slow down only attack me once a week now. The two to three times he hits me now is killing me with a 614% casualty rate lmao. Soon I wont be worth any battle points lol.

Poopenshire
04-04-2013, 01:30 PM
The information is available in the Modern War Toolkit. otherwise you have to search the code.

mwmark
04-04-2013, 01:30 PM
Okay still trying to follow you on this.
I have (or had lol) about 160 Harden Marines, 630 Expert Attack Drones, 700 Elite Ops Choppers, 590 Elite Water Cruisers, 1 Wavebreaker, 2 Riptide Runners, and I have about 300 Indestructible units mix in. I can only bring in 2000 units so I know I wont be using any of the Harden Marines (well I am now from severe losses).
I should be farming units like the Brigand Lighting (where exactly does that drop from btw) and buying other valor units to diversify my army? wont I still lose the same amout of units just spread out over a variety of them? I am less likely to lose units I have less of? Although I just lost my Wavebreaker my feelings are still hurt morning the loss of that lovely ship so lets not talk about that one lol.

wow, if this is the army composition of everyone that is having "casualty issues" no wonder....

Those valor units if you compare them to most cash units (sea and air), those above valor units have MULTIPLE the amount of casualty rate than the cash units. The infirmary is not gonna help you with units like that, those are easy come, easy go units.

Long ago I switched away from Valor units to mainly cash units, and I was very selective on the cash units I used based on their casualty rate. Since my switch I lose maybe a few units a day (less than 5), every time people are saying "did they change casualty rate" I have not seen a difference. I see the same patterns. Maybe they did fix the "no casualty bug".

BUT the biggest factor is what/how/who you attack or raid.
- Attacking you have a higher risk of casualties, the higher your attack over their defense, the less likely you will have casualties. Not talking like 10k difference, but say you have double attack over their defense.
- Raiding money building, you have a small risk of casualties. Again depends on opponent's defense, you always want to attack someone with significantly lower defense if you want to reduce casualties.
- Raiding defense, boost, etc building, I see it as like 80% casualty rate regardless of opponents defense.

mxz
04-04-2013, 03:29 PM
the higher your attack over their defense, the less likely you will have casualties. Not talking like 10k difference, but say you have double attack over their defense.
- Raiding money building, you have a small risk of casualties. Again depends on opponent's defense, you always want to attack someone with significantly lower defense if you want to reduce casualties.
- Raiding defense, boost, etc building, I see it as like 80% casualty rate regardless of opponents defense.I'm not convinced this is accurate. Do you have any evidence that, currently, a high difference of stats induces less casualties?

Jd-fors
04-04-2013, 05:27 PM
I don't buy the fight verse raid casualty percentage.i hardly lose any units in attack mode.i bleed valor and brigands and transports when raiding.this is with a level 10 hospital and all the casualty reductions.personally I don't mind losing the valor units or the brigands I had 90 brigands 2 days ago and am down to 11 now.tomorrow they should be gone and I say good riddance.i do not think for even a second every player in the game is losing brigands at the rate I lost them and that alone makes this situation suspect.the units I am losing I don't need.oh,and yes my stats are dropping but that only means my stats weren't real to begin with.

Jd-fors
04-04-2013, 06:20 PM
Down to 4 brigands.hehehe.thats 7 in one hour.now that's attrition!

Burnt
04-04-2013, 07:06 PM
I'm not convinced this is accurate. Do you have any evidence that, currently, a high difference of stats induces less casualties?

MXZ - I can attest to the accuracy. When I first noticed it, I could attack opponents at 35-40% of my att stats. With the boosts I have garnered, it's around 50-55% now. Here are some tests I ran:

% of my attack
87 - Lost 3 units
61 - Lost 1 unit
53 - no units lost
28 - no units lost

mxz
04-04-2013, 07:44 PM
MXZ - I can attest to the accuracy. When I first noticed it, I could attack opponents at 35-40% of my att stats. With the boosts I have garnered, it's around 50-55% now. Here are some tests I ran:

% of my attack
87 - Lost 3 units
61 - Lost 1 unit
53 - no units lost
28 - no units lostWhat was the sample size of your trials? One hit each?

Also, were there multiple players at that %? Different times of the day? Different days of the week?

It looks like 4 random hits, not evidence. I'm actually really interested in running trials like this, but I haven't lost a unit since everyone else started losing them...

Burnt
04-04-2013, 08:04 PM
What was the sample size of your trials? One hit each?

Also, were there multiple players at that %? Different times of the day? Different days of the week?

It looks like 4 random hits, not evidence. I'm actually really interested in running trials like this, but I haven't lost a unit since everyone else started losing them...

You were promoted to the No No Club? Lucky!

What was the sample size of your trials? One hit each? - Yes, one hit each, but in reality my sample size is about 4,500 which is when I started using the % of my attack method. Most of these, especially raids, were multiple attacks.

Also, were there multiple players at that %? Different times of the day? Different days of the week? - See above.

Burnt
04-04-2013, 08:33 PM
I'm actually really interested in running trials like this, but I haven't lost a unit since everyone else started losing them...

Oh noooooo. Looks like you are going to have your shot at some trials after all. Gree is rolling back the servers. Genius...

Q Raider
04-04-2013, 08:58 PM
What was the sample size of your trials? One hit each?

Also, were there multiple players at that %? Different times of the day? Different days of the week?

It looks like 4 random hits, not evidence. I'm actually really interested in running trials like this, but I haven't lost a unit since everyone else started losing them...

I agree with the base statement that the likelihood of losing a unit does have a relationship to your opponents Defence.

Evidence: Anecdotal really unfortunately, but in the China event I was doing the intel gathering and also a fair bit of DL hitting. Dropped around 100k in Valor units and the vast majority of losses were from straight losses or against opposition close to my attack strength. The only double unit losses were against the higher end opponents. Must add that this relates to well over 1,000 attacks so it a reasonable base to work from.

I do have a second source from my HLP. It started suffering extreme losses on Attack or Defence just after the phantom faction fix was released. So much so, that I had to stop PVP and just had the sats plummet anyway as there was a PVP event on at that time. When the Attack/ Defence figures came along I did sone test attacks and it became apparent that though my Attack Vs their Defence was determining the Win/Loss outcome, my attack score included no boosts and so, being close to or less than their Defence units were dropping like flies and they were always the top end units, never the shields I had in place.

mxz
04-04-2013, 09:20 PM
Well, if they weren't rolling back the servers I'd say lets start some formal data collection and get this proved. Now, who knows what the hecks gonna happen.:confused:

klonik
04-05-2013, 03:18 AM
All the time same question in 300 threads :)

Speaking in general terms

More units u have more likely u lose, more of same u have higher chance to loose one of those.

Now the important bit

when u put 200 units to fight (at lvl 10 for example) ratio of your attack to defender def can be as high as 10:9 without loosing any unit

at 2000 units to be safe ratio is much higher! thats for attack / character attack on raid screen

Standart Money / cash building they do not receive defense bonus, quite opposite, from all def building. only from adjacent ones, thats why u can raid person 20% above your stat and get away with it

Military (unit)/ bonus / fortification (defensive) / some Event cash / Gold Cash building have some internal defense value which get multiplied by def building bonuses what i seen on toolkit picture these values go to thousands ... thats why u loose units

If you find your safe ratio every single 1k of defense over makes your chances of loses higher ...
for about 100k att stat

1k plus over save 1unit in 20 fight
3k 1 in 10
5k 1in 5
10k 1 every fight
15k 2 units every second
20 3 units every second
if def of rival get to 10:9 at 2000 units u loose 3+ units every single fight ... so in gree terms casualties work as intended ...
I kinda disagree on how they decide what unit will die, but there is no chance they can make / will make a change to it as it requires different mathematical approach ... But u have to understand that CR rating on unit screen only tells u , that u can have more of that type of units before loosing it of.

Also its kinda stupid that some valor units have so high CR and are considered low ... :)

Spectre23
04-05-2013, 03:55 AM
My entire army is based on all low and very low casualty rate valor units. I also have casualty reduction bonuses.

Previously I was losing a unit maybe one every 20 attacks. Literally overnight I was losing a unit on every other attack.

Now I'm camping just to give time to see if they fix it....

CasualPlayer
04-05-2013, 04:26 AM
Thing of the past guys, it's now fixed not losing units again.

Shawshank
04-05-2013, 11:16 AM
That is ridiculous. You can't have a casualty rate over 100% because 100% means that unit dies 100% of the time.