PDA

View Full Version : Cheating guilds, the new guild war system, GREE cheating policy, and you.



Sir Marcus
04-03-2013, 07:36 AM
This is something that has been on my mind all morning. I want to get it out before the war even ends, because this isn't really about me or where my guild falls. This is about fairness, about GREE's policy, and the new guild war dynamic.

GREE's cheating policy is available in app, and reads as follows:
"We enforce a zero tolerance policy for cheating. If you feel you have come across a player that seems to have gained an unfair advantage in any way, please contact us...(etc)"

The link below discusses a cheating guild that has been uncovered, complete with screenshot evidence. Tickets have been sent. That's not the issue here.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?50282-Guild-leaders-leadership-please-read

The issue is this: Before guild wars, cheating was something that, while disgusting and wrong, didn't directly damage other players. Sure, it stirs resentment and encourages people to quit because people don't like to be treated unfairly. But their cheating didn't take something away from you aside from some gold in the odd raid.

Guild wars are different. Because this is a PVP environment with guilds in direct competition, their cheating DOES take something away from everyone else. If a cheating guild lands in the top 10, then the guilds and ALL of their players in places 11, 26, 76, 101 etc are all cheated out of rewards that they have earned with strategy and coordination (and lack of sleep) and paid for in gems. Other players suffer because cheating players take rewards they haven't earned.

Which means for gem spending players like me, dollars I spend don't get what I indirectly pay for because of cheaters. In LTQs and LTEs, if I pay for gems, I pay to benefit me. I compete against the clock. Nothing a cheater can do devalues what I have paid for, because they cannot take away LTQ items, or mess with my energy bar, or anything like that. They can't effect me in any way. In guild wars, their cheating directly devalues my investment. I'm competing directly against someone who isn't playing fair, and we can't both win the same prize.

GREE has, in my view, three basic approaches to deal with the problem of cheating guilds. There are some foreseeable consequences to these approaches. Since this is the first guild war, no precedent has yet been set.

1) They can do nothing. Fail to enforce their own policy, let the chips fall where they may. Obviously, there are some players who - if they find out about the cheating - will be angry that they have spent real world cash in vain and they will quit, and there are those who play for free who will also feel cheated and quit.

2) They can ban the player who was caught cheating. This is what they'd probably do pre guild wars, and pre guild wars this a functional solution. Problem's gone, and players who see the existing policy being enforced are encouraged to stay because they feel they'll be treated fairly.

But in a guild war context, this approach only serves to encourage cheating. People who have the knowledge and means to cheat can build throw-away accounts on extra devices, induct them into a guild and use them to power the guild into better positions and get better rewards for the entire guild. If they're caught, that account is banned, but the entire guild retains its benefits. Furthermore, with guilds encouraging online communication between members outside these forums, those cheaters can theoretically teach other guild members with multiple devices how to cheat - and then the whole guild derives more benefits from that cheater also.

3) They can disband the guild and remove war benefits as well as ban the cheater. This is the approach I'd favor. This punishes cheaters, punishes guilds who cheat openly, and gives guilds an incentive to police their own members. This also remedies the effects of the cheating on other, honest players. Guilds in positions 11, 26, 76, and 101 all advance and gain the benefits their organization, sleepless nights, and cash investments have earned them. Fairness wins out.

Being the first guild war, GREE has yet to make any kind of precedent here. I'm also sure they're swimming in tickets right now. They deserve time to make some kind of decision. They ought to make it a public decision, so that players know how guild situations will be handled, and players who have felt cheated can be satisfied - because satisfied players stay with the game and continue to spend money on it.

I know how this is handled will effect whether or not I continue to invest in this game. I've no doubt that this will be true of others. Lets see what happens.

jonny0284
04-03-2013, 07:37 AM
I'm behind you. :D

Klassenr@hotmail.com
04-03-2013, 07:44 AM
+ 100. However, We can wish in one hand, @&$? In the other, and see which fills up quicker.

l3lade2
04-03-2013, 07:48 AM
Being the eternal optimist (ok, a slight trace of sarcasm but generally true) I'd like to keep some faith in the system, despite Gree's recent lack of activity to the earn that faith, and believe that Gree will take action on tickets submitted and particularly in regards to cheating individuals and/or guilds.

The more cynical side to me however wonders whether Gree would take action before the end of the guild war...they have a guild, for anonymity reasons let's call them "Lord Dragons", currently in the Top 10 that it is relatively evident have committed wild infringements to the rules, i.e. cheated. Ok, that being said, whilst any Guild is in the Top 10, it keeps spots 11 and 12 and so on dumping more gems to chase said guilds above them....why remove a cheating guild before the end of war (if at all of course, remains to be seen) and cost themselves all of those lovely pennies from the guilds trying to catch them :rolleyes:

Me&You
04-03-2013, 07:55 AM
My ticket had loads of screenshots on a player in the guild we're all talking about. Gree knows. Let's see how they deal with it.

Silent follower
04-03-2013, 07:56 AM
I think option three is the only viable solution, and want to see that done by Gree.

Sir Marcus
04-03-2013, 08:05 AM
Yeah - let me be clear, I'm certain that this war and all of the recent changes beforehand have GREE absolutely swimming in tickets. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and the time, to deal with the situation. I will also be looking closely at how exactly they do that when the time comes.

Q-Ball
04-03-2013, 08:46 AM
Well said... Get it done GREE.

Totalwar
04-03-2013, 09:20 AM
Maybe Gree locked out of the guild wars themselves and can do nothing until the comp finished.

VileDoom
04-03-2013, 09:28 AM
100% behind your post.

Thief
04-03-2013, 09:49 AM
I can tell you for a Fact that number 3 Doesn't happen. Playing MW through 4 WD events now nothing has been done to a faction if they have Hackers/Cheaters.

Break it down there are multiple kinds of Cheats. The worst one is a Gem Hacker (Gold in MW). This player gets unlimited of what you pay hundreds or thousands of Dollars for.

The next is a Gold Coin Hacker (Cash in MW). This person can unlock basically every Boost for a faction. Obviously you thne have more players and more bonuses to get you further.

Those are the two worst hacks for Factions/Guilds

Then you have Hackers who Add units to their Army. These are horrible because you can't defeat them and they are too powerful even if you are one of the top players in the game. In MW you were seeing players with 9 Million Defense at a time when the top player had 1 million. These were easy to spot however and were removed from the game (it actually put the hacker faction at a disadvantage). However now you have Smarter hacker factions that will make themselves very strong just not the strongest in the game to reduce suspicion. Many of the times you can tell because the Limited edition sets don't match up or they have more than 1 Award unit etc etc.

Finally you have Energy Hackers who Farm the best loot possible and get as many of the loot that they want. What would take the average player over 2 years to accumulate. At least in most cases this loot can die and it's apparent they are hackers.

Winstrol
04-03-2013, 10:03 AM
Find me a game , where there are no hackers :rolleyes:??

l3lade2
04-03-2013, 10:12 AM
Find me a game , where there are no hackers :rolleyes:??

Totally agree, but I think the point Marcus is trying to make is that in most other games, where admitedly there are also hackers, the developers acknowledge that if they wish for people to continue spending real money then they have to act accordingly...frankly in this case just to uphold their own policies, it's not an unreasonable request given that it's their own policy.

Especially at this time, so publicly and high profile during the guild war given their current ranking. When there have been so many posts on the forum, and tickets sent, this has in my opinion become more of a statement of intent on Gree's part than anything. The statement at present being, we condone cheating?

Winstrol
04-03-2013, 10:17 AM
GREE doesn't give a crap about players , and all what you gonna see in your mails is COPY and PASTE crap every freaking time. Unless you swear at them in the replay :D or ask for refund hah

Ssne
04-03-2013, 10:24 AM
Agree with Thief. All forms of hacking are rampant in MW and can't be controlled there...and I'm sure there are even less eyes focused on KA as MW probably out-revenues KA 2 to 1. And the hacker-related ticket count is probably 100 to 1.

So I believe #1 will win out, at least for the foreseeable future. They either can't, or won't, do anything about it. Nor will they try (hard) while the cash register rings.

The Big Weezy
04-03-2013, 10:25 AM
I will bump this thread through the stratosphere.


Well said, my friend. :D

Sir Marcus
04-03-2013, 10:25 AM
GREE doesn't give a crap about players , and all what you gonna see in your mails is COPY and PASTE crap every freaking time. Unless you swear at them in the replay :D or ask for refund hah

Individually, I'm sure that is true. But they do care about player's money. And if they put players in direct competition against each other, cheaters prospering at the expense of paying players costs them paying players. That should matter to them. Should. We'll see what actually happens.

jonny0284
04-03-2013, 10:27 AM
I will bump this thread through the stratosphere.

We agree on something. ;)

Shinazueli
04-03-2013, 10:27 AM
I see you guys at #10. I'm rooting for you.

Chups
04-03-2013, 10:33 AM
Well why am I wasting my gems then? If this is not resolved and my guild does not place where I'm expecting us to be because of a hacker then I'm not buying these expensive gems anymore.

The Big Weezy
04-03-2013, 10:37 AM
we agree on something. ;)

finally. :D :D :D

jonny0284
04-03-2013, 10:45 AM
finally. :D :D :D

Tehehe .

sparckle
04-03-2013, 10:49 AM
Let those whiners threaten to quit. Gree knows you and many others don't intend to quit. Therefore no action on Gree's part. Empty threats don't motivate.

Valid or
04-03-2013, 11:45 AM
Yeah - let me be clear, I'm certain that this war and all of the recent changes beforehand have GREE absolutely swimming in tickets. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and the time, to deal with the situation. I will also be looking closely at how exactly they do that when the time comes.

I also would like to think gree will act on submitted tickets..as people who cheat affect the game play for others and not in a good way. But i would have thought gree would have commented/addressed our concerns. But haven't found a post to that.

Wht will gree do if they ban guilds/players who placed high and cheated to do so, will they redo the placements to reward the people who played honestly?

Sir Marcus
04-03-2013, 11:49 AM
Wht will gree do if they ban guilds/players who placed high and cheated to do so, will they redo the placements to reward the people who played honestly?

That is my hope. But since this has never happened before in KA - who knows? That approach would certainly satisfy the largest number of players.

narfy
04-03-2013, 11:56 AM
nice post buddy, hope this can touch GREE a little

Valsuvious
04-03-2013, 12:17 PM
I guess in the interest of this thread, the guild in question fell outside of the top 10 despite the attempts by one individual to remain in it.

a glory a
04-03-2013, 12:27 PM
GREE won't fix this problem until AFTER the guild war. if people are being pushed out of the top 10 due to hackers... thgey will buy more gems to get back into the top 10. why would GREE want to stop this? they don't care about fair, they care about money. I expect the hacker will get reset as a punishment (not that it will take them any more than a few moments to get back to where they were) but this is what they want.

sucks doesn't it.