Attack Stats Swinging Wildly

[General Nu]

My attach stat is swinging from 61,000 to 46,000 when I attack other players. Do anyone know why this happens? Is there anything I can do to mitigate the swing. 15,000 points is a huge variable when trying to attack another player!

Thanks!

[Pakmom1]

I've been seeing this in regular PVP lately also. Curious to know the answer.

[milankovitch]

Hell, what ARE my stats??? Android user showing roughly 56/90. other people in faction see me as 45/55. Lose fights to people with stats i shouldn't. When I look at other people's stats i don't even know if what I am seeing is correct. What I see is certainly different than what people in my faction tell me their stats are showing them.
What's the deal?

[Pakmom1]

I know part of that has to do with other people seeing only your raw stats, without your bonuses that you see.

[LagBolt]

Its down to skill points, although the exact mechanic is unknown, the more attack points to assign when you level up, the higher your attack should be. There will always be this variation, its like rolling the dice but the more attack skill points you have, the more weighted to your advantage the odds will be

[Beharry]

Our faction has also come across a DL whose defense swung a good 40k, from somewhere near 80k to 130k. I say that's pretty extreme lol.

[General Nu]

do you have any reason to think that?


Its down to skill points, although the exact mechanic is unknown, the more attack points to assign when you level up, the higher your attack should be. There will always be this variation, its like rolling the dice but the more attack skill points you have, the more weighted to your advantage the odds will be

[4Nik8R]

We are having the same problem. Huge differences with a second hit. It sucks not being able to see pvp stats. I see 15k/24k so I asked a faction member how he balanced his a/d so well. He looked at mine and said they were both 14k. So I told him what I saw in his profile. I saw 18k/17k. He replied cool cause he thought he had 15k/16k.

So am I the only one that can see the skill points? Everything I see is more than they see...???

[General Nu]

I think you are just talking about you seeing your base stats plus your individual bonuses while your faction members see your base stats plus your faction bonuses???

I'm talking about attacking someone and scoring a hit of 61,000 and winning and then attacking someone and losing with a hit of 48,000. The game never use to do this. If your attack was 61,000 it was always 61,000. My faction attack stat is 52,000 so the reasoning above does not even apply.



We are having the same problem. Huge differences with a second hit. It sucks not being able to see pvp stats. I see 15k/24k so I asked a faction member how he balanced his a/d so well. He looked at mine and said they were both 14k. So I told him what I saw in his profile. I saw 18k/17k. He replied cool cause he thought he had 15k/16k.

So am I the only one that can see the skill points? Everything I see is more than they see...???

[General Soviet]

It's probably based on your total skill points, and bonuses. I've seen it happen a lot, but it just became visible from the faction update. I wonder if the stats change more because of the update.

[milankovitch]

i know what you mean about the stats swinging wildly. I've won fights gotten 350 WD points, lost a fight and won another 300+ WD points. I can't see the stats because i am on android. I attack based on what other iOS users post in the forum. Usually there is no reason i should lose a fight based on what I see my stats as when compared to my opponent.
My question goes along with that. What I see my stats as and what other members of my faction see my stats as are wildly different and my skill points can not explain the difference. Yes there are faction bonuses to consider but when I look at other peoples stats most of the time I see much higher than what they say they have, often I see my own stats when i look at other profiles but it will have their IPH, allies etc... Why would I see their stats including faction bonuses (if that is what I am seeing) and why do they not see my faction bonuses and only my base stats? I really have no idea what my stats are. I've been asking for someone with iOS to tap me and see what they get.

[Arnaud]

I'm talking about attacking someone and scoring a hit of 61,000 and winning and then attacking someone and losing with a hit of 48,000. The game never use to do this. If your attack was 61,000 it was always 61,000.

I'm having exactly the same pb since Egypt started... Very frustrating :-(

[Mcdoc]

Guys - Back in august at the SoCal Meet-up - Jarod - aka CCMark (Cj's predecessor) came down in person to meet with us and we had an amazing Q&A session. THIS exact topic came up back then about the randomness of killing a rival 6 or 7 times then suddenly losing to him.

This was the explanation of the "mechanics" that Mark told us:

In each attack - you take your total boosted stats - multiply them by a randomly rolled dice number on each attack which could be a positive or negative number in an undisclosed range - then multiply that by your skill points - add it all up - and that is your "true" attack stat for THAT exact attack. The defending player also has a random dice roll that is in play so if your dice number is a negative and his is a positive - there could be a huge swing in the result.

Up until WD - we never saw what the actual exact attack & defense scores were - we could only speculate based on what we "saw" as our boosted stats. NOW that we know those numbers - adding in your Attack skill points - you should be able to somewhat backwards engineer the numbers to see what is going in - EXCEPT that the random dice roll is SO random and could be a positive OR negative - so it still remains a complicated and ever changing stat for each attack.


So i just did 18 attacks at copied my numbers into excel. My stat I see is 260k attack but my final score ranged from 236k to 311k - about a 31% difference between those extreme numbers OR +17% to -10% off the 260k.

Fuzzy Math - I know - but try to follow.

My current Attack skill is 96 - so now - to try out that Algebra 2 from High School:
260 + ( X * 96) = 236 or 260 + 96x = 236 (subtract 260 from both sides)
96x = -24 (divide both sides by 96)
x = -.25

260 + ( X * 96) = 311 or 260 + 96X = 311
96x = 51
x = .53

Where X will be that random dice number rolled in each attack. In my examples - it varied from -.25 to .53

*** REMEMBER: While THIS Fluctuation is going on for your attack score - the same thing with a separate random dice roll is going on for your rival on his Defense score.

Calling on any Math Geeks to help me here :D

Class dismissed

[Mcdoc]

By the way - THIS is the kind of thread that used to make this forum so helpful to folks coming here for answers and strategies on how to play the game :D

[Philly982]

Thanks Mcdoc. I thought that what was going on, but it is nice to hear it from a respected Senior Member. Now only if Android could see the attack / defense scores we could use your logic to find out if the Android 'boosted' stats are accurate. I have heard that Android sees raw stats + faction bonuses + building bonuses (Composite Factory),have tried calculating by hand, but the stats still seem a little inflated. Nonetheless, I think this is a different problem and not necessarily for this thread.

[Arnaud]

Thanks for the great explanation!

Personnaly, I never saw a higher stat than my real stat so that would mean I always got negative or null dices since egypt started! Weird...

Each time I level up since i start to play MW, i almost always put most of the 3 points in attack skills so that would explain why my stats can vary this much (in my situation: I'm lv61 with attack of 28k but it varies between 18k and 28k).

My conclusion would be that I shouldn't have put any points in attack skills so i don't leave anything to luck (if i follow your formula): The more skill you have, the more risk!

I understand that they leave some stuff to luck, but I don't understand why those skill points can be used against us!

[Mcdoc]

I am not proclaiming that my explanation is entirely accurate on the mechanics - but I do know my algebra - so the math is correct - no matter how you get there :)

BTW - I have over 300 on defense and I know that it causes major casualties on my rivals - plus many times a get a post that says - "tough nut to crack" - so I have to think I did good to get my defense up :P

[elangomatt]

@Mcdoc... Have you thought about trying to factor in any of the so called stat bonuses that we get from various items, factions, and boost buildings?

[Mcdoc]

@Mcdoc... Have you thought about trying to factor in any of the so called stat bonuses that we get from various items, factions, and boost buildings?

Those numbers are perhaps already accounted for in the boosted stats - but even if they are not - they would be a constant in the equation and the variations I reported would still be accurate

[Mcdoc]

Hell, what ARE my stats??? Android user showing roughly 56/90. other people in faction see me as 45/55. Lose fights to people with stats i shouldn't. When I look at other people's stats i don't even know if what I am seeing is correct. What I see is certainly different than what people in my faction tell me their stats are showing them.
What's the deal?

Also - remember that people who are the same flag as you will see your Nation Boost - whereas others will see a more raw score - so when you ask for a stat check - you will get different results based on their flag.

[Peppers]

Hey Mcdoc,

I'm seeing wild swings in my attack score when doing multiple attacks on the same player. Boosts, skill points etc, should remain static since it is the same player.

Would the "random" factor account for a 25% swing in stats against the same player?

[camper killer]

Hey Mcdoc,

I'm seeing wild swings in my attack score when doing multiple attacks on the same player. Boosts, skill points etc, should remain static since it is the same player.

Would the "random" factor account for a 25% swing in stats against the same player?

I have stated this before the "swing" actually takes my attack and defense below the posted values. In effect this removes my boosts. I have seen my attack go as low as 2k to 3k less than my current visible boosted attack. In my opinion my stats should never go below the my visible boosted stat. what the point of boosts if they are removed a good portion of the time.

[Mcdoc]

Thanks for the great explanation!

. . .My conclusion would be that I shouldn't have put any points in attack skills so i don't leave anything to luck (if i follow your formula): The more skill you have, the more risk!

I understand that they leave some stuff to luck, but I don't understand why those skill points can be used against us!

You made me think today about your conclusion - what IF you remove the X factor by not having a SINGLE point in Attack or Def?

I have another IOS device that has no MW game on it - I am going to start up "Test Pilot" with NO skills going to Attack or Defense to test out if your theory can actually cut out the fluctuation of points entirely . . . . hmmmm

[Tabor]

Thanks Mcdoc. I thought that what was going on, but it is nice to hear it from a respected Senior Member. Now only if Android could see the attack / defense scores we could use your logic to find out if the Android 'boosted' stats are accurate. I have heard that Android sees raw stats + faction bonuses + building bonuses (Composite Factory),have tried calculating by hand, but the stats still seem a little inflated. Nonetheless, I think this is a different problem and not necessarily for this thread.

On the Android 'no stats' Issue: the latest update (3.6.3 build 42) introduces stats in the result screen!!

[Arnaud]

You made me think today about your conclusion - what IF you remove the X factor by not having a SINGLE point in Attack or Def?

Well, the thing is you start with 1 so no matter what, there will be a fluctuation at least equivalent to X!

This is why I was saying it is unfair: the more skill you have, the bigger the risk can be!

In Greenland, I didn't have a fluctuation this important though! In my case, it could be up to -30% of my boosted attack! (so way more than 30% of my none boosted attack). And it has never been bigger than my boosted attack. Statistically, I should have had more or less 50% to be above/below, not 100% chance to be below!

I'm LV61, boosted attack during B4E was 28k (26k without the boost) but it could be as low as 18k. My attack skill is 80. If I follow your formula, it's just impossible, X would be too important!

Not sure but i feel like several people had the same feeling in my Faction.

Prob not related, but I also noticed my casualty rate was much more important during the battle to Egypt VS PVP (or even VS Greeland)

[sbs2716g]

I found one player with stats showing 10k AT&T/10k defense. But when doing attack his defense are consistently at 28k to 30k. How can it be?

[Mcdoc]

I found one player with stats showing 10k AT&T/10k defense. But when doing attack his defense are consistently at 28k to 30k. How can it be?

All kinds of hidden boosts that you can't see - just like others only see your RAW stats - not your nation boost - faction boost - special unit award boosts - at low levels it seems high for those swings - but when you're up at level 200 - a 30k swing in each direction is the norm - so a 60k difference sometimes - see my math above.

[Mcdoc]

By the way - i DID create a new LLP - Test Pilot - so help me out with getting some Data intel - Allie up: 218-924-252

[digisyn]

I am using Android. The update this morning shows the A/D finally but I am seeing a massive swing in my stats as well. Alliance attack according to my profile is 514 k. In my 60 fights today I have seen 234k to 414k as my attack value in the results screen.

[Arnaud]

Alliance attack according to my profile is 514 k. In my 60 fights today I have seen 234k to 414k as my attack value in the results screen.

Wow, that's even worse than me! Up to 60% of decrease!

[milankovitch]

thanks for the info...even though my question was slightly different i think that what I am gettign out of this is that the stats that I see for myself are MY stats regardless of what other people tell me they see? is this correct? I understand it can fluctuate from battle to battle. My concern is just about what my stats are since I get so many different numbers from different people. It initially came up in a discussion about who should be defense leader for our faction. i see my defense as 90K but others in the faction report about half of that which has led to all sorts of questions.

[jjm521]

Guys - Back in august at the SoCal Meet-up - Jarod - aka CCMark (Cj's predecessor) came down in person to meet with us and we had an amazing Q&A session. THIS exact topic came up back then about the randomness of killing a rival 6 or 7 times then suddenly losing to him.

This was the explanation of the "mechanics" that Mark told us:

In each attack - you take your total boosted stats - multiply them by a randomly rolled dice number on each attack which could be a positive or negative number in an undisclosed range - then multiply that by your skill points - add it all up - and that is your "true" attack stat for THAT exact attack. The defending player also has a random dice roll that is in play so if your dice number is a negative and his is a positive - there could be a huge swing in the result.

Up until WD - we never saw what the actual exact attack & defense scores were - we could only speculate based on what we "saw" as our boosted stats. NOW that we know those numbers - adding in your Attack skill points - you should be able to somewhat backwards engineer the numbers to see what is going in - EXCEPT that the random dice roll is SO random and could be a positive OR negative - so it still remains a complicated and ever changing stat for each attack.


So i just did 18 attacks at copied my numbers into excel. My stat I see is 260k attack but my final score ranged from 236k to 311k - about a 31% difference between those extreme numbers OR +17% to -10% off the 260k.

Fuzzy Math - I know - but try to follow.

My current Attack skill is 96 - so now - to try out that Algebra 2 from High School:
260 + ( X * 96) = 236 or 260 + 96x = 236 (subtract 260 from both sides)
96x = -24 (divide both sides by 96)
x = -.25

260 + ( X * 96) = 311 or 260 + 96X = 311
96x = 51
x = .53

Where X will be that random dice number rolled in each attack. In my examples - it varied from -.25 to .53

*** REMEMBER: While THIS Fluctuation is going on for your attack score - the same thing with a separate random dice roll is going on for your rival on his Defense score.

Calling on any Math Geeks to help me here :D

Class dismissed

This doesnt really make sense, for a couple of reasons -
1) the most obvious one being you are taking a number that should be in hundreds of thousands and then adding a really small number (96 X some variable). If you look at it in those terms, then X has to be wildly higher than .5 or -.25 for your score to see any variation worth noting.

2) Using this formula, you are basically saying that we are better off keeping our ATK (or DEF) skill low to reduce variation? If you keep your skill level at 1, then your upside is much lower, but so is your downside, so i doubt this is how the formula works at all.

[jjm521]

" you take your total boosted stats - multiply them by a randomly rolled dice number on each attack which could be a positive or negative number in an undisclosed range - then multiply that by your skill points - add it all up - and that is your "true" attack stat for THAT exact attack. The defending player also has a random dice roll that is in play so if your dice number is a negative and his is a positive - there could be a huge swing in the result."

Using this description from McDog's post (assuming it's more accurate than the formula given later), it's more like:

Boosted stats = BS
Random # = X
Attack skill points = SP

So, (BS)(X)(SP) = attack score
(260000)(X)(96) = 236000 or
(260000)(X)(96) = 311000

So, to find the range of X (at least in this particular case), we just take 236000 and divide by 25M (approx) to arrive at -.009 and then for the high side, we end up with .012


(deleted - still need to think about this)

[SevenO9]

For the Brazil event I had 5/5 skill points in att/def. The swings for my attack and the enemies def were so massiv that nearly every intel given by my teammates was useless. I lost against opponents with half my stats.

Over the next two events I spent every single available point into attack. The total is still a measly 22 but I am seeing a difference already.

No hard data, I stopped tracking every score in the heat of war. But it seems my average attack stabilizes at little under my boosted attack. The variance gets smaller.

With only 5 skills points my average attack was certainly ways under my boosted attack which looks totaly wrong to me. Comparing results with a player of similar raw stats but much higher skill points I had to conclude that my missing skill points resultet in 15-20k attack and because of the massive swings I had ways more lost battles. Actually the swings work only one way as you typically pick a safe target and might loose but never rely on a positive swing to attack up. So its a net loss always.

Overall I am strugling with a mechanic that favors free skill points over hard earned (spent) raw stats. Esecially as spent skills points is irreversible and I have to grow massive to counter the missing stats. Even if my profile shows 80k I have to play like its 60k really.

A random factor is fun and should be part of the mechanic, I just think it should not take you ways under your profile stats constantly.