Art of war - Question for the vets

[bgood]

BACKSTORY: I have a particular person that seems to hit high stat (good stat players) seems for giggles and thats his plan is to enjoy when the other side gets annoyed. He has good stats as well for his level 111 around 240k/180k. Im at 217/166k. Me along side other people have been leveling his income building non stop but he doesnt care about that just the reaction. However he will hit you if you go over the vault.

Question:

His weakness as I see it is his IPH is low at 7k an hour and is a daily player but not on all the time. He has a level 10 water temple and his boost units are 8 or better. He is not a heavy gem spender only having participated using gems in the LTQ's to complete with no gem money buildings. I have a high effective IPH (IPH plus hourly raiding) and can sustain decent dragon unit losses. Is there a way to cause defender unit casualties at a rate that would make it worthwhile. I can lose 5-8 dragons for every one he loses. If I can cause enough dragon casualties and spread the attacking to the point that I can lower his attack enough i open him up to more people to attack him as well as when i decide to leave him alone it will take 2 months to rebuild to where he was. Any thoughts? I know I can just ignore him and keep leveling up but my plan is much more fun for me.

[bgood]

I did test runs attacking his low income producing (Cottages, farms bakery) (which have low defense scores) and was unable to cause a single casualty. This was after the water temple was destroyed and his beast boost building.

[King Gabriel388]

Why waste your stamina and dragons for nothing? He only hit you when you're overvault otherwise when he loses dragons, it gets expensive.

[jonny0284]

My IPH is low and I still managed to build a great army of Dragons. Why? Raiding and attacking the peons. Your strategy should be... leave him alone. His attack score justifies a lot of unwanted retaliation back to you.


If I was him and you attacked me, I'd ruin your kingdom. And, I'd make sure you never went over vault again. Seriously. Over & over.

* I love his stats. Buahahahahahahahahahahaha. Looks familiar.

[Iphazard]

I second the "leave him alone" strategy. I don't think there's any way to inflict serious damage on him that lasts any longer than it takes to find a few over vault players and re-tool. All you'll end up doing is staying on his radar and losing any over vault gold of your own.

[War Eagle]

Hey bgood...
I think I recently came across the player you're talking about... because I saw your name in his comments. I thought it was interesting because he had high stats but a lot of his buildings were leveled (and now I know why).

Also... just sent you a message with my code... but it's also in my sig. We should ally.

[Everson25]

I don't think low IPH is a sign of weakness. I don't care about my IPH as I can raid and attack at will and get enough gold for my losses. For some players it's just a strategy. I imagine that I have players who would attack me but they gave up at the end as I don't have much to offer. I don't have many who can attack me so I don't worry with unvaulted gold. Maybe once I'm on whale zone I will be more careful.

[bgood]

My IPH is low and I still managed to build a great army of Dragons. Why? Raiding and attacking the peons. Your strategy should be... leave him alone. His attack score justifies a lot of unwanted retaliation back to you.


If I was him and you attacked me, I'd ruin your kingdom. And, I'd make sure you never went over vault again. Seriously. Over & over.

* I love his stats. Buahahahahahahahahahahaha. Looks familiar.

I agree that i probably will leave him alone however there is a stategy checklist i go through...Peace...war...move on

He attacked me 3 different times prior before i started leveling things. Now the list of people looking to hit this guy is so long i cant even get to the good buildings because someone else levels them. The reason i posed the question was because i recognize that was my only shot to outright win. However it looks like if your the person being attacked your casualty rate of units is far less then if you are the aggressor which from a logical standpoint should not be the case. If i were able to cause casualties at a decent clip say 8 dragons lost per 20 attacks...regardless of my dragonloss because I can make that up plus spread the losses across the other people im attacking...eventually you can make a dent and once you lower his stats under yours then you can keep burying him. Because his IPH is in 7000's with a few buildings making that up if you level them then raiding is the only source of raiding dragons. His net losses would be slow but would exponentially grow as his stats shrunk.

However I cant cause the losses i need to make it worthwhile. In a realistic war this war of attrition should be a viable option however in this game its not so i move...but always keeping an eye to see if he is over the vault.

[Mickeytah]

My strategy for the game is not to anything that puts me on the newsfeed of people who can level my kingdom over and over. I wait until I've passed them and then attack them.

[Evilcloak]

Bryan, A player like this does not depend on his iph to sustain his army or to proceed in the game. levelling the kingdom only serves to keep you on the news feed and DELAY your own progress. Particularly if you should have aspirations of items that require you to go overvault. The player in question may ignore you for weeks, then strike when you think the storm has passed and you've gone way overvault.
Your best strategy is to not attack and hope you get knocked off the news feed, worst thing you can do is play his game. Sending ally's in to "level" his kingdom only adds more names for him to farm.

Attempting to whittle away at his dragons has merit on paper and is a commendable strategy, but the reality is, an experienced raider can replace 20 or 30 dragons in an hour, meanwhile , you will have expended a considerable amount of time and resources and have remained on top of the news feed.
All the best Bryan, see you soon...
-EC

[bgood]

EC:

It took a little bit to get to the conclusion you speak of. I had to go through the stages anger, denial and finally acceptance. Everyone who got sent in were already on your feed as a result of your attack I just gave them the collection times of your buildings...which is a mistake because now i can't get to em...oh well. My strategy would of worked if I were able to inflict dragon losses at a decent rate as your not a full time player and finding 2 over the vaults an hour takes a lot of time. Once reduced your attack power it would limit the people you could attack to recoup thus having a large effect...however like you said commedable strategy but in KA reality does not work...hence i've moved on...and due to those people attacking my name will drop off your list..

See ya on the flip side EC

Bryan

[jonny0284]

Bryan, A player like this does not depend on his iph to sustain his army or to proceed in the game. levelling the kingdom only serves to keep you on the news feed and DELAY your own progress. Particularly if you should have aspirations of items that require you to go overvault. The player in question may ignore you for weeks, then strike when you think the storm has passed and you've gone way overvault.
Your best strategy is to not attack and hope you get knocked off the news feed, worst thing you can do is play his game. Sending ally's in to "level" his kingdom only adds more names for him to farm.

Attempting to whittle away at his dragons has merit on paper and is a commendable strategy, but the reality is, an experienced raider can replace 20 or 30 dragons in an hour, meanwhile , you will have expended a considerable amount of time and resources and have remained on top of the news feed.

Solid advice. :) Because, it's the truth.

[travelingsalesman]

Originally Posted by Evilcloak
Bryan, A player like this does not depend on his iph to sustain his army or to proceed in the game. levelling the kingdom only serves to keep you on the news feed and DELAY your own progress. Particularly if you should have aspirations of items that require you to go overvault. The player in question may ignore you for weeks, then strike when you think the storm has passed and you've gone way overvault.
Your best strategy is to not attack and hope you get knocked off the news feed, worst thing you can do is play his game. Sending ally's in to "level" his kingdom only adds more names for him to farm.

Attempting to whittle away at his dragons has merit on paper and is a commendable strategy, but the reality is, an experienced raider can replace 20 or 30 dragons in an hour, meanwhile , you will have expended a considerable amount of time and resources and have remained on top of the news feed.
Solid advice. Because, it's the truth.


Solid advice. :) Because, it's the truth.

I finally started working on my IPH, but I got very far in this game farming players that were working on their IPH and going overvault. The challenge is it requires a much more active role in game play.

Here is the thing... He is stronger than you, and he can farm much more money they you can obtain through IPH. I would suggest either stop attacking him and wait for your name to fall of their list.... OR ask for forgiveness on their wall and leave your number and hope he adds you.

[Perfuzzie]

iph doesnt really matter .. i have a low iph but i made 400.000 in 2 hours raiding and attacking overvault players

[bgood]

It doesn't matter because of casualty rates and limits on being attacked. It has less with with your ability to raid as oppossed on the restrictions imposed by gree on Defensive unit losses and # of times. You are unable to do a war of attrition on people. Had I been able cause unit losses (of decent amount) its a snow ball effect. Effects the person attacked slowly at first but as A/D goes down so does the people they can raid further cutting them off...But its not possible so yes given defensive unit losses iph does not matter...if gree ever changes this then there's trouble for unbalanced players

[John Snow]

It doesn't matter because of casualty rates and limits on being attacked. It has less with with your ability to raid as oppossed on the restrictions imposed by gree on Defensive unit losses and # of times. You are unable to do a war of attrition on people. Had I been able cause unit losses (of decent amount) its a snow ball effect. Effects the person attacked slowly at first but as A/D goes down so does the people they can raid further cutting them off...But its not possible so yes given defensive unit losses iph does not matter...if gree ever changes this then there's trouble for unbalanced players

The way to win a pissing match like this is simple - just have a lot more stamina than your opponent. You can continue to unload on your opponent over and over and still have stamina to make up your losses with raids. Having a higher IPH is helpful, but more stamina gets you gold faster. I had one of these pissing matches a few months ago for 8 straight days non-stop. The guy finally just stopped and left his kingdom demolished for two days. I let up after that and just let him go. The trade off with this high stamina approach is that my low hero strength makes it impossible to do very well in the LTQs.

[Spydrax]

IMHO: I believe you've reached the only solution that is in your best interest. "He who knows when he can fight and when cannot, will be victorious". Sun Tzu The 13 chapters (Art of War)

You've maturated! You've gone through the emotions and determined that you can't win and by doing so, you've won! Winning a war isn't about defeating your enemy while you stand toe to toe.

Sun Tzu also taught that, "Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting"... This is what he did to you. He essentially kept giving you jabs, light and easy, but with consistency which angered you. In war, you don't engage an enemy out of anger, you'll through your soldiers into a trap and to their deaths. This is what it sounds like you did by 'sacrificing' your dragons to reduce his. A battle of attrition only works if your army is vastly larger than your enemy's and you can provide consist supplies. This is a much larger tactic in war though and has extreme consequences in a negative manner. Remember, this tactic was tried by the USA against a smaller, inferior army, but lost the war due to the expectation that attrition will win out. After extremely large casualties and a nation bitter that we were over there, we left. Propaganda must be used to sway your own people when using this as well since you will quickly loose them when they find out that you have abandoned them by sending the soldiers to their deaths without a winning strategy. Attrition is not an accepted war tactic for major wars. Anyway, as this is a game, and resources abound, and your 'kingdom' doesn't care what you do, if you're willing to loose much, if not all, of your army to defeat a larger nation, go for it! But know that they got that size somehow, and in all likelyhood, will do so again. Peace is always the best option.

Another teaching was, "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win". It doesn't sound like you did that. When he was poking at you and you were getting more and more angry, you just swung back. Anyone who's training in hand-to-hand combat will not jump just because they were angered; they assess the situation and devise a plan of attack as well as escape should the plan fail. Life to fight another day. Which, actually, is yet another Sun Tzu teaching, he called it dead ground, the field by which a general places his army in a strategic position there retreat is impossible. They must fight or die. Using this technique is difficult as a general because you know your sending in men to die, but it's your only choice. Such as was the Normandy Invasion. Those men had no retreat option; fight or die.

I just so happen to strongly enjoy wartime strategy/tactics and philosophy, and study Sun Tzu as one of my generals I admire! His 13 chapters are on my phone and I read something in it everyday and find different meanings almost every time! Amazing really! Anyway, it's a game. Treat it as such and you'll feel better in your RL life because somehow, this person probably got to you outside the game by you constantly thinking about it!

I don't mean to lecture, I just love this topic!

Best of luck to you!

[Evilcloak]

Spydrax, the person in question was me, Bryan and I had a great old time for a week or so battling back and forth .We've since become friends and ally's. Bryan showed true character and great spirit, something I admire deeply when I run across it. It's rare in today's world.

I've often threatened to read Sun Tzu, but for some reason something else always gets ahead of it. After your inspiring post, I think I'll make a point to read it this week.
Be well, -EC

[jonny0284]

Deleted by me.

[Spydrax]

Spydrax, the person in question was me, Bryan and I had a great old time for a week or so battling back and forth .We've since become friends and ally's. Bryan showed true character and great spirit, something I admire deeply when I run across it. It's rare in today's world.

I've often threatened to read Sun Tzu, but for some reason something else always gets ahead of it. After your inspiring post, I think I'll make a point to read it this week.
Be well, -EC

As I said, when you seek peace, you will find it. I'm happy for the two of you!

I hope it does inspire you to get a copy; You will be better for it... The more you read it, the more A-HA moments you'll have and a deeper and more profound understanding of things happenings around you. That and a little philosophy goes a long way. Knowledge alone is worthless without the wisdom to know how to use it.

If I may provide you with some advise?

You'll want to be careful of which version you acquire, some are written in the native Chinese and English translations abound without getting the full meaning of the teachings. Some are only just passages and not the whole 13 chapters. The Art of War, or The 13 Chapters, is not a 'read' type book, much like Dante Alighieri's: The Divine Comedy; (also on my phone), where you read passages telling stories of strategy and then clarifications are made, thoughts are interjected and then they move on. A passage will be read and then the next has nothing to do with what he just described beforehand. So you can find yourself, jumping all over the book for any given situation you find yourself in. One of my favorites is, and I'm paraphrasing this one, is that as a leader of men, if you give a direction and that person fails to accomplish it and/or does something wrong, you must first blame yourself for being unclear. You MUST go back to that person, and this time, MAKE SURE you're being clear and once that person says they understand, the onus is now on them. You have done all that you can. This example shows so succinctly how his teachings cross over into everyday life. If you have a child, am I right? People who work for you? You're spouse?

Anyway, I would recommend this version IMHO: It's the best version I've read...

The Art of War by: Sun Tzu The Oldest Military Treatise in The World

Translated from the Chinese with introduction and Critical Notes by Lionel Giles, M.A. Assistant in the Department of Oriental Printed Books and MSS, in the British Museum First Published in 1910

The best way to search for this version may be to look for Lionel Giles translated version, that may get you there best.


Btw: the first war I described in my first response, was Vietnam, I didn't not that.