2 wine makers vs 1 gold mine?

[ryano]

What are your thoughts? I have been saving up gems and I have enough for 2 wine makers. I had been holding out for a gold mine (less than 90 away) Would you keep saving for the gold mine or get the 2 wine makers and start upgrading them? It'll take awhile to get them both upgraded. Gold mine would be faster but it may be weeks before I can get the gems to finish it (unless they suddenly decide I'm due for an Add me... promotion in here)

[jonny0284]

Depends on how often you'll actually collect. Missing out on a single wine maker collection pushes back the 2nd collection in the 24 hours frame. So while the gold mine pays out once in the 24 hours, you may end up with only one winemaker collection, too.

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Gold mines are more attractive to looters.

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But, a level 5 gold mine pays out 18,000 in 24 hours. A level 5 winemaker pays out 8,000. x2 buildings x2 collections in 24 hours = 32,000.

I'd do the wine makers. But, that's me. :)

[bgood]

I agree with Johnny on the spot. Winemakers are a less attractive raid and if your somewhat diligent about collection you will gain more cash in the long run. Especially because you are a decent amount of gems away from the mine (unless you purchase them of course)

[Shinazueli]

Wine makers, for all the reasons stated above. Also, one thing you may not realize, GM's upgrade FAST, and will quickly drain your vault. They get over vault in less than a week. If you don't have the IPH you won't be able to upgrade them whereas the WM's are slow enough to allow you to save.

[DragCro]

Wine makers, for all the reasons stated above. Also, one thing you may not realize, GM's upgrade FAST, and will quickly drain your vault. They get over vault in less than a week. If you don't have the IPH you won't be able to upgrade them whereas the WM's are slow enough to allow you to save.My advice to you is to buy a gold mines you can fast upgrade & they give you decent income,you get notification to colect them so if you are on mobile 24/7 then nobody can raid you :).With wine makers you have to colect them twice a day so you cant do that,you have to sleep & somebody pay a visit & colect them from you :D

[ryano]

I hadn't noticed the upgrade times. GM is alot faster. If I get the wine makers now it'll be new years before I can really use them Of course it'll probably take that much time to get a gold mine.

[DragCro]

This is from my friend Hello Kitty ,so you can see for your self what is better to do!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Avl02CVKV-jKdFZSdE1EUS1hb0NKSXBOV1JkTmFCNnc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=0

[Winstrol]

Buy 1500 gems and buy both of them , thats the best solution

[Shinazueli]

I hadn't noticed the upgrade times. GM is alot faster. If I get the wine makers now it'll be new years before I can really use them Of course it'll probably take that much time to get a gold mine.

Trust me. That speed is not good. You may like it for the first few levels but once you level it a couple times and it costs you like 700k and it'll be done in 24 hours... You'll see what I mean.

[sborgnanera]

gold mine is better than wine maker because "real" picking is better.

to calculate it very sharply, ask yourself how many times you switch on KA on your mobile per day, how long is the maximum interval between 2 pickings...etc...and with a formula, you can approch the "real" picking

ie : i pick a first time at 9 AM and of course, second time at 9PM with WM
but, 1 on 3, i forgot picking during 3 hours and every day i sleep at 11PM, so 1 on 3, i lost 1 picking...etc...

with gold mine, it's different, are you agree with that ?

12 hours output buildings are more 15 to 18 hours "real" output building and 24 hours are more 25 to 26 hours...

at level 10, on the paper, theses buildings are quite the same but in reality, GM are better than WM

[Shinazueli]

Lol. Again sborg arguing his longer time collections. It's been proven wrong time and again. In like every thread. With real math, unlike your "sharp" math. The WM's are all around better buildings, for a lot of reasons. But if you only want to play once a day and be behind, do what you will. The more experienced and successful players have told him (and others) time and time again, but he's refusing to listen. Don't be like them.

WMs aren't 18 hour buildings. They are 12 hour buildings. If you cannot collect them twice 9 out of 10 days, you're doing it wrong.

They probably won't ever be raided. They aren't worth raiding before level 8, and if you have one above level 8, you aren't worried about being raided.

GMs, on the other hand, are worth it above level 5, and they get there quicker too. That sounds like a good thing until you leave it alone for five minutes and come back to a pile of rubble.

The GM is MUCH easier to spot than the WM. It's shiny and yellow. It's GOLD. You may as well change your name to : pleaseraidmybuildingskthnxbai.

The GM is more expensive to upgrade than the WM. Chances are you are purchasing an income producing building to .... boost your income. Sounds silly.

He can only afford one GM. That makes this an even easier choice. One IPH or twice the IPH. Hmmm. Gotta think about that.

TLDR: given a choice between a longer time and a shorter time collection building of similar IPH (excluding cottages and farms), the short time building is always the better choice.

[ezinap]

You should have bought 1 Wine Maker when you had 200 gems.
All those days of wasted income... Hurt my brain.

[Shinazueli]

You should have bought 1 Wine Maker when you had 200 gems.
All those days of wasted income... Hurt my brain.

And this. ^^. Forgot to mention that.

[Zenobia]

gold mine is better than wine maker because "real" picking is better.

to calculate it very sharply, ask yourself how many times you switch on KA on your mobile per day, how long is the maximum interval between 2 pickings...etc...and with a formula, you can approch the "real" picking

ie : i pick a first time at 9 AM and of course, second time at 9PM with WM
but, 1 on 3, i forgot picking during 3 hours and every day i sleep at 11PM, so 1 on 3, i lost 1 picking...etc...

with gold mine, it's different, are you agree with that ?

12 hours output buildings are more 15 to 18 hours "real" output building and 24 hours are more 25 to 26 hours...

at level 10, on the paper, theses buildings are quite the same but in reality, GM are better than WM
Maybe I'm a huge geek but I made a spreadsheet of all the income buildings and calculated my daily income on each based on how often I check in. I calculate the daily income increase on each for the next level and divide that by the cost of the upgrade, to generate the "value" of upgrading each building. It's sorted best to worst value and when I want to upgrade a money building, I go by what's on the top of the list. I also naturally have the upgrade times on my spreadsheet and if the best value upgrade is bad timing, I go down the list til I hit one with good timing.

FWIW when I had some gems to spend on buildings, I went with the winemakers; no gold mine.

[Dhusagar]

I have 2x level 9 gold mines and both 9 & 10 WM - I bought them at the beginning and they have been great for collecting cash

I say buy them all!

[Shinazueli]

Maybe I'm a huge geek but I made a spreadsheet of all the income buildings and calculated my daily income on each based on how often I check in. I calculate the daily income increase on each for the next level and divide that by the cost of the upgrade, to generate the "value" of upgrading each building. It's sorted best to worst value and when I want to upgrade a money building, I go by what's on the top of the list. I also naturally have the upgrade times on my spreadsheet and if the best value upgrade is bad timing, I go down the list til I hit one with good timing.

FWIW when I had some gold to spend on buildings, I went with the winemakers; no gold mine.

That's not a huge geek, that's called being intelligent. Refer to sig.

[Shinazueli]

I have 2x level 9 gold mines and both 9 & 10 WM - I bought them at the beginning and they have been great for collecting cash

I say buy them all!

Agreed, but the question was one or the other.

[King Gabriel388]

Get the 2WM first if you got limited gems. They cost less gems. Cheaper to upgrade. If raided, you got income 12 hours later. Gold mine later when you have more gems.

Sborg, interesting opinion as always. Reading it always provide a good laugh. :) You managed in the past to get The1nONLY and Dexter to give their opinion of you, not an easy task by the way. They are both good guys too. I wonder if The1nONLY will offer you any fries to celebrate his victory?

[ryano]

Thanks. Sounds like it's the wine makers, as long as I have space for them. I like the suggestion about getting them all. Problem is I'm unemployed with a family to support. The likelihood of me having any money to spend on gems here is well, zero pending a drastic change in my employment. Luckily I have the watch video option which I've watched WAY too many of now...

[Zenobia]

That's not a huge geek, that's called being intelligent. Refer to sig.
Thanks. :) I had been admiring your siggy which was in my window right above the reply box as I was typing my reply. So I guess my spreadsheets for calculating what units and/or equipment to get next based on how they increase my stats as compared to the weakest units/equipment actually used in battle, counting boosts, that isn't overboard geeky either? lol.

[Shinazueli]

Thanks. :) I had been admiring your siggy which was in my window right above the reply box as I was typing my reply. So I guess my spreadsheets for calculating what units and/or equipment to get next based on how they increase my stats as compared to the weakest units/equipment actually used in battle, counting boosts, that isn't overboard geeky either? lol.

No but if you've found a way to get them into the SS without entering them in cell by cell or having a jail broken phone (damn you work phone) then I'll be jelly. I just gave up and bought the best defense ones.

[DragCro]

Thanks. Sounds like it's the wine makers, as long as I have space for them. I like the suggestion about getting them all. Problem is I'm unemployed with a family to support. The likelihood of me having any money to spend on gems here is well, zero pending a drastic change in my employment. Luckily I have the watch video option which I've watched WAY too many of now...i was in same dilema like you but i thought for colecting is better gold mines,you know that you cant colect allways,you have a private life,friend,family.
So i bought gold mines & im happy with them.
I'm not saying that winemakers are not god deal

[Gru]

As a player with 2 GM's & 2 WM's, I like my GM 's better (but I have 2 of them, purchased at the same time). I like the 'collect' notifications w/ GM's, the simple, fast upgrade times (albeit costly) & since I've had them, I've let them sit for a total of about 10 minutes (& that was mostly because I let them sit twice for 4-5 minutes). I collect them as soon as they can be collected.
The WM's are great too, but I have let them sit for much longer than 10 total mins. But they aren't leveled to where it would make much sense to hit them as the payout isn't really worth being on my wall (not that many people could successfully hit them & win anyway, at least not yet). They take longer to upgrade & they aren't exactly cheap either.
All in all, I would probably take a GM over 2 WM's. 1 collection vs 4 on-time collection times is mostly the reason why.
FWIW, I'm lv. 96, 96/95+ A/D, $8k iph.& just recently became a club-dragon member (only 120 dragons, & plan on getting many more, & my stats will drastically improve). I'm well over the 500/50 cap or I would leave my ID.

[Clay01]

for those of you who have GM and/or WM, looking back, if you had a very limited pool of gems, would you still buy them?

or save them for one of these limited time events, a box event, or a boss event?

the way I look at it, gold can always be achieved through the non-gem purchased buildings, and at some point, if your goal is BD10 and dragons, you can get there without GM/WM... so wouldnt the gems be better spent acquiring an indestructible unit with high stats?

[Shinazueli]

for those of you who have GM and/or WM, looking back, if you had a very limited pool of gems, would you still buy them?

or save them for one of these limited time events, a box event, or a boss event?

the way I look at it, gold can always be achieved through the non-gem purchased buildings, and at some point, if your goal is BD10 and dragons, you can get there without GM/WM... so wouldnt the gems be better spent acquiring an indestructible unit with high stats?

Honestly, the IPH from those four buildings stomps so hard on all other buildings, yes. They allow you to progress much faster, where the same money spent on a unit, would give you l, At The Most, 1500 stats. This makes so small of a difference at endgame, whereas the months of saving for the requisite upgrades do make a significant difference.

[King Gabriel388]

for those of you who have GM and/or WM, looking back, if you had a very limited pool of gems, would you still buy them?

or save them for one of these limited time events, a box event, or a boss event?

the way I look at it, gold can always be achieved through the non-gem purchased buildings, and at some point, if your goal is BD10 and dragons, you can get there without GM/WM... so wouldnt the gems be better spent acquiring an indestructible unit with high stats?

For a free player, little gem user, your economy is very important. Everything revolves around your gold amount. The WM and GM add a significant income producing advantage for a small investment in gems. Units lost must replaced, boss fights cost gold, etc.

[Gru]

What they said. No if's, and's, or but's about it. They come second only to Manors (maybe even better, as they pay every 12 & 24 hours, not 48).

[Proprioc3ption]

I'd say for now, go the WMs. But as some have suggested it would be best to have both at some stage. I have 2 level 7 gold mines. Once my dragon army shoots out above 700, I'll be upgrading them to 10s. I have never lost money from my gold mines cause all my high level buildings are pretty much collected at the same time and on time. I got the gold mines first and I build my income up around them. They helped me to focus on building a routine with collecting on a 24 hr basis. Quick upgrades early on made them a great addition in providing more gold for my kingdom in less time. Combine silos, castle, manors, gold mines, leather worker, wine makers etc and you've got a great model on bringing in a realistic IPD where you don't have to be glued to the game to bring in the cash.

[DragCro]

for those of you who have GM and/or WM, looking back, if you had a very limited pool of gems, would you still buy them?

or save them for one of these limited time events, a box event, or a boss event?

the way I look at it, gold can always be achieved through the non-gem purchased buildings, and at some point, if your goal is BD10 and dragons, you can get there without GM/WM... so wouldnt the gems be better spent acquiring an indestructible unit with high stats?
I think that spending gems on boss event is a good idea,the same is for crates to buy 3 of them.
For box event you havr to have more gems to spend

[DragCro]

Honestly, the IPH from those four buildings stomps so hard on all other buildings, yes. They allow you to progress much faster, where the same money spent on a unit, would give you l, At The Most, 1500 stats. This makes so small of a difference at endgame, whereas the months of saving for the requisite upgrades do make a significant difference.
Your advice is good shinazueli.I like it
But if you are at lower levels units help to defend your kingdom,so those 1500 a/d from gem units are not a waste of spending gems on them,so depends in what level are you & what is your strategy in the game

[emcee]

Save your gems for boss events. Eventually a lot of forum members will have an all dragon army so what is going to separate you from the pack is not your IPH but your indestructibles.

Besides Gree might introduce an anniversary building like they did in MW.

[DragCro]

Save your gems for boss events. Eventually a lot of forum members will have an all dragon army so what is going to separate you from the pack is not your IPH but your indestructibles.

Besides Gree might introduce an anniversary building like they did in MW.

So i play Cc & Mw & for anniversary buildings you dont have to spend real money to buy them just you have to have a good iph,so if they put a anniversary building on Ka you dont have to have gems just lots of gold :).Hope that we get anniversary building,i like that idea for Ka

[King Gabriel388]

Save your gems for boss events. Eventually a lot of forum members will have an all dragon army so what is going to separate you from the pack is not your IPH but your indestructibles.

Besides Gree might introduce an anniversary building like they did in MW.

But you need gold coins to build an army strong enough to take on the L30 boss. You need gold coins to fight all the bosses. You need gold coins to upgrade your buildings. With low IPH, you will have a mediocre army to fight the boss. You'll get nowhere. Anniversary building is at least 3 or 4 months away still. :) 2 WM's ASAP is the best use of your current gems.

[sparckle]

But you need gold coins to build an army strong enough to take on the L30 boss. You need gold coins to fight all the bosses. You need gold coins to upgrade your buildings. With low IPH, you will have a mediocre army to fight the boss. You'll get nowhere. Anniversary building is at least 3 or 4 months away still. :) 2 WM's ASAP is the best use of your current gems.

A full dragon army alone is not strong enough to beat 30 levels. In fact it is nowhere close to beating 30. Gems are needed. The only time you can beat 30 levels with a gold-only army is if your exactly level 50 (in the 26-50 tier) and have a big dragon army.

[Winstrol]

A full dragon army alone is not strong enough to beat 30 levels. In fact it is nowhere close to beating 30. Gems are needed. The only time you can beat 30 levels with a gold-only army is if your exactly level 50 (in the 26-50 tier) and have a big dragon army.
You cant even beat boss 15 with full dragon army if you are level 100+ xD

[King Gabriel388]

A full dragon army alone is not strong enough to beat 30 levels. In fact it is nowhere close to beating 30. Gems are needed. The only time you can beat 30 levels with a gold-only army is if your exactly level 50 (in the 26-50 tier) and have a big dragon army.

That's right. If you cannot afford a full dragon army, you cannot get far up in the boss event. So you need gold coins first for your dragon army.

[sparckle]

I suppose you do need to build economy first. But you can still make mass dragons without the gem buildings. If you're a free player earning TJ gems, then it's better to save those precious gems for boss fights after you've amassed a decent attack army.

[sborgnanera]

Be carfull : 400 gems = 2 WM and 500 gems = 1 GM

But in a first approch, 1 WM = 1 GM (hourly output), so spend your money in 2 WM + 100 gems instead of 1 GM

If you have the opportunity to buy what you want, buy the both... (GM level 10 = WM level 10 = Manor level 5)

[Shinazueli]

I suppose you do need to build economy first. But you can still make mass dragons without the gem buildings. If you're a free player earning TJ gems, then it's better to save those precious gems for boss fights after you've amassed a decent attack army.

Like I said before, the units you can buy with such a small amount of gems make a truly negligible difference in stats at endgame. But the AMOUNT OF TIME saved building economy is truly significant, on the order of months, to get dragons. You can then be at max dragons farming good w/a and better quality boss loot much faster.

[sparckle]

Like I said before, the units you can buy with such a small amount of gems make a truly negligible difference in stats at endgame. But the AMOUNT OF TIME saved building economy is truly significant, on the order of months, to get dragons. You can then be at max dragons farming good w/a and better quality boss loot much faster.

You're not meant to buy units with the gems. You use the gems to beat your way to level 30. Rare drops are only slightly stronger than dragons so if you have dragons already, boss loot makes little difference. Only the prizes for beating 20/30 levels make a real difference. And if you don't have gems to make it 30, then there really is little point to rush to dragons.

Besides, players should aim to win boss events far before they are level 50. Getting as far as one can with a full army of flaming catapults and then using gems to beat the remaining levels up to 30 is the ideal strategy.

[Shinazueli]

You're not meant to buy units with the gems. You use the gems to beat your way to level 30. Rare drops are only slightly stronger than dragons so if you have dragons already, boss loot makes little difference. Only the prizes for beating 20/30 levels make a real difference. And if you don't have gems to make it 30, then there really is little point to rush to dragons.

Besides, players should aim to win boss events far before they are level 50. Getting as far as one can with a full army of flaming catapults and then using gems to beat the remaining levels up to 30 is the ideal strategy.

While I wholeheartedly agree with what you said, players already out of that level zone will still benefit from what I said.

[sparckle]

Many players here are assuming gold mines and winemakers and necessary in massing dragons. They are not. Especially if you're camping and only leveling during boss events. By the time a camper reaches level 50, his economy will be more than sufficiently developed for a BD10 rush. Having extra gold mines or winemakers make little difference for campers.

[emcee]

Many players here are assuming gold mines and winemakers and necessary in massing dragons. They are not. Especially if you're camping and only leveling during boss events. By the time a camper reaches level 50, his economy will be more than sufficiently developed for a BD10 rush. Having extra gold mines or winemakers make little difference for campers.
My level 23 account has IPH 16363 with over 10.6 million unbanked. No gold buildings, no gems, no Tapjoy.

[sparckle]

This is exactly what I mean. Winemakers + Goldmines make little difference for campers. Players eventually will have more gold than they can spend so it's not wise to trade gems for gold. It's never wise to trade a scarce resource for an abundant one.

Spend whatever TJ gems on finishing boss events after you have the best army gold can buy. The 1000+ A/D units are what separates the players in the late-game, not their IPH.

[Shinazueli]

Yes. For people camping under level 50, you've made it abundantly clear that the gems are better spent on boss events. I've agreed with you.

What I'm saying is, FOR THE REST OF US, the gem buildings are at least as good an investment.

And honestly, lets say you camp for a while and win 10k worth of boss event stats. That still is almost negligible when you are talking about endgame, with 200k stats flying around.

[sparckle]

Gem buildings are good investments in terms of upgrade cost/time but they're not needed. If you're in the level 51-75 tier with a full dragon army, you can make it to boss 30 with less than 200 gems. So the actual cost of a winemaker is a 1000+ A/D unit. A goldmine costs two to three 1000+ A/D units.

The only time I see gem buildings having any real utility is if you're in the 76-100 tier. Still a good distance from the whale zone and boss events are too strong to beat without spending a meaningful amount of gems. So you might as well improve your IPH to get dragons. Other than that, I see no real purpose in the gem buildings.

[Shinazueli]

Gem buildings are good investments in terms of upgrade cost/time but they're not needed. If you're in the level 51-75 tier with a full dragon army, you can make it to boss 30 with less than 200 gems. So the actual cost of a winemaker is a 1000+ A/D unit. A goldmine costs two to three 1000+ A/D units.

The only time I see gem buildings having any real utility is if you're in the 76-100 tier. Still a good distance from the whale zone and boss events are too strong to beat without spending a meaningful amount of gems. So you might as well improve your IPH to get dragons. Other than that, I see no real purpose in the gem buildings.

Think that about covers it.

[King Gabriel388]

Gem buildings are good investments in terms of upgrade cost/time but they're not needed. If you're in the level 51-75 tier with a full dragon army, you can make it to boss 30 with less than 200 gems. So the actual cost of a winemaker is a 1000+ A/D unit. A goldmine costs two to three 1000+ A/D units.

The only time I see gem buildings having any real utility is if you're in the 76-100 tier. Still a good distance from the whale zone and boss events are too strong to beat without spending a meaningful amount of gems. So you might as well improve your IPH to get dragons. Other than that, I see no real purpose in the gem buildings.

The OP is around L70+ with not a strong army and limited gems.

[Shinazueli]

Yeah we had him settled a couple pages ago. This discussion was just an extension to see who gem buildings were worth it for.

[sparckle]

Back on topic. 2 Winemakers or 1 Gold mine?

Take the goldmine if you have lots of unbanked gold. Goldmines upgrade quickly and can burn through a lot of gold in no time. Time is a valuable asset. The time saved from upgrading a gold mine in comparison to upgrading two winemakers can be used to upgrade your other income buildings.

Wine makers upgrade at about 2/5 the speed of gold mines and cost about 2/3 of the gold. If you have little gold on hand, take the winemakers. Winemakers are still on a long enough cycle to be collected on time and a goldmine only has 12.5% more IPH than a single winemaker. So two winemakers will boost your income more significantly.

In short, the trade-off is gold vs time. Take winemakers if you don't have much gold on hand. You'll at least be able to keep up with the relatively slow/cheap upgrade costs. Take gold mine if you have enough unbanked gold to power level it to at least level 8. Although I would think if you had that much available gold, you should just attempt a BD10 rush.

[Shinazueli]

Back on topic. 2 Winemakers or 1 Gold mine?

Take the goldmine if you have lots of unbanked gold. Goldmines upgrade quickly and can burn through a lot of gold in no time. Time is a valuable asset. The time saved from upgrading a gold mine in comparison to upgrading two winemakers can be used to upgrade your other income buildings.

Wine makers upgrade at about 2/5 the speed of gold mines and cost about 2/3 of the gold. If you have little gold on hand, take the winemakers. Winemakers are still on a long enough cycle to be collected on time and a goldmine only has 12.5% more IPH than a single winemaker. So two winemakers will boost your income more significantly.

In short, the trade-off is gold vs time. Take winemakers if you don't have much gold on hand. You'll at least be able to keep up with the relatively slow/cheap upgrade costs. Take gold mine if you have enough unbanked gold to power level it to at least level 8. Although I would think if you had that much available gold, you should just attempt a BD10 rush.

More specifically, if he had that much gold, he wouldn't be looking at any gem building. Lol. For most people who are interested in gem buildings, the WM is the better deal for a lot of reasons. But that's already been discussed a couple of pages ago.