Regarding the Boycott

[Captain Steelman]

After reading your posts about why you called for a boycott, I would like to again inform you of the conditions regarding the game. Most of you do not understand yet but after this i hope you will.

The game in your device is not yours, it belongs to GREE. You did not purchased the game, GREE granted you access to the game for amusement purposes. Not even your username is yours. Your army and your buildings is property of GREE. I know i suggested that one could sell the game account to get something back from all the gold bought but GREE will delete the account and ban you for life if they get knowledge about such a transaction. You can NOT sell what is not yours...

When you buy gold you do not actually own the gold. GREE just gave you access to another gameability, another option of gameplay if you will. What ever you buy with the game gold is still property of GREE. That´s why any parable to real life events is irrelevant.

So when you buy a High A and D unit with boost it is NOT yours. You are only allowed to use it for your own entertainment. The unit it self is property of GREE.

You are however welcome to report errors in the game BUT GREE is, in no way, obligated to fix that error.
You are NOT allowed, in any way, to speak unfavorably about GREE in a way that could be damaging to their business. They have full rights to delete your account without informing you of the reason.

GREE can change the game and the system in the game for whatever reason they want. If a player gets to strong, in a way that it is spoiling the gameexperince for other players, they can, eg remove the boosteffect without further notice.

GREE has a globe-spanning legal exception to operate in the above manner. ”How is that possible...?” you ask......

YOU AND EVERYBODY PLAYING THE GAME ALLOWED THEM THAT BY ACCEPTING THE TERMS OF SERVICE.

Face it, you have no rights to even argue about how you feel misstreated. GREE has every right, you have none. So don´t give me that bull about your lawyer friends that know your right in your arguments. You don´t even have the right to argue.

If you don´t belive me, ask ferr. He is a lawyer, or at least he says so....but i have my doubts....

[Fl@sh]

You pay to go see a concert, the seat is not yours, you don't own it. The main act doesn't perform. Do you want to be made whole?

We can come up with analogies all day, the boycott continues.

[Товарищ]

Law is about interpretation from what I understand.
If GREE advertises one thing to attract purchases from customers but doesn't keep it, your very nice defense of poor GREE isn't very strong, now is it?

[manbeast]

sounds like you work for gree

[Bob_55]

sounds like you work for gree

I was thinking the samething

[BigD@wg]

You're absolutely right that all these things are the property of Gree. However the concept you just can't seem to grasp is that people are spending money for a what I will call a "service". Whether this "service" is for additional special units, upgrades, buildings, leaderboard participation, etc. People are paying for Gree to provide an additional "service".

If you get into a taxi.. You don't own the taxi. The taxi driver tells you he will take you to airport. But instead he takes you to the nearest shopping mall. He provided a service. Do you still pay the taxi driver even though he never intended on taking you to the airport?? I think not.

It's about Gree providing a service and not delivering on what they have advertised. Units with advertised boosts which have been proven "broken" is false advertisement. Therefore, yes people have rights. They paid money for an advertised "service" that was never provided.

Read my signature. It applies to you.

[CAPT.GIN]

This guy is a joke

[Dhusagar]

@captain steelman

The basic premise upon which your whole argument relies is fallacious - namely ACCEPTING THE TERMS OF SERVICE.

Within the EU, a contract with clauses that assign no rights to one party is held invalid - frustration of contract.

There is numerous case law that upholds the rights of both parties within any contract. Gree could however pull the plug on anyone it so chose. However, if it went to court, the court would look at the contract and decide on that. In this case, it has already been decided by the abolition of slavery act, where it was decided that an individual does not have the right to assign all their rights over to another party.

Therefore, all your supporting arguments are null and void.

Of course, the only way to actually test this is in court!

[BigD@wg]

Dhusager, Dawg...Who are you guys! Wow! Think I may have taken a wrong turn
with my English and MBA degrees!

Lol! I'm sure those degrees serve you well. Im just an average guy astounded by how some view the world and simply have very little understanding of how it actually works.

[Ferr]

After reading your posts about why you called for a boycott, I would like to again inform you of the conditions regarding the game. Most of you do not understand yet but after this i hope you will.

The game in your device is not yours, it belongs to GREE. You did not purchased the game, GREE granted you access to the game for amusement purposes. Not even your username is yours. Your army and your buildings is property of GREE. I know i suggested that one could sell the game account to get something back from all the gold bought but GREE will delete the account and ban you for life if they get knowledge about such a transaction. You can NOT sell what is not yours...

When you buy gold you do not actually own the gold. GREE just gave you access to another gameability, another option of gameplay if you will. What ever you buy with the game gold is still property of GREE. That´s why any parable to real life events is irrelevant.

So when you buy a High A and D unit with boost it is NOT yours. You are only allowed to use it for your own entertainment. The unit it self is property of GREE.

You are however welcome to report errors in the game BUT GREE is, in no way, obligated to fix that error.
You are NOT allowed, in any way, to speak unfavorably about GREE in a way that could be damaging to their business. They have full rights to delete your account without informing you of the reason.

GREE can change the game and the system in the game for whatever reason they want. If a player gets to strong, in a way that it is spoiling the gameexperince for other players, they can, eg remove the boosteffect without further notice.

GREE has a globe-spanning legal exception to operate in the above manner. ”How is that possible...?” you ask......

YOU AND EVERYBODY PLAYING THE GAME ALLOWED THEM THAT BY ACCEPTING THE TERMS OF SERVICE.

Face it, you have no rights to even argue about how you feel misstreated. GREE has every right, you have none. So don´t give me that bull about your lawyer friends that know your right in your arguments. You don´t even have the right to argue.

If you don´t belive me, ask ferr. He is a lawyer, or at least he says so....but i have my doubts....

No need for doubts captain, i m a lawyer. In fact, i am not the only lawyer in this game. Lawyers attrack lawyers and they identify eachother pretty quick it seems. Anyways, as to some of us we have shared info on our respective lawfirms. As for me i am a founding partner of a rather substantial law firm in amsterdam, the Netherlands. Not to brag about it, just a fact. Some of the other lawers playing this game have their offices in the US and various other counties. On first sight you would think that this should guarantee that if gree does anything wrong they will have a dozen lawfirms on top of them. This is however not the case, but the reason for that is not because of what you say. You clearly are not a lawyer and you have no idea about service or game products and no idea about the laws applying to that. if you would be right, if you would deposit your dollars on a bank account, you would have lost them instantly lol. i do not hold it against you though. law is something you need to study, before you start talking about it. still, i was triggered by your remarks. As for some reason it always takes a long time before lawyers really start to act. Let me explain and give you an example at the same time: a few weeks ago we had a huge discussion with gree on the so called country-leaderprize. When they introduced the leaderboard events gree described the nr one leaderboard prize in a way that a regular interpretation of that prize could only lead to the conclusion that every country- leader would get such price. Hence, instead of one main prize for the whole leaderboard (as gree said) gree would need to issue 6 main prizes (as i and others stated). From a legal point of view this was a tremendously strong case against gree (clearly, i do not agree with your point of view that you would not have any legal argument against them but i will address that seperately if you still wish me to do that after you have read this, for now i just want to explain why our lawfirms are not too keen to litigate). So, with such a strong case, why do i not immediately ask one of my associates to prepare a writ of summons against gree? The reasons for this are the following: firstly, can you imagine what the initial response of my current partners would be if i use the firm for such rather personal matters? Not spontanously positive i can tell you. They will let me do it, for sure, but they will frown lol. Secondly, once you start such legal action you will be spending a huge amount of time. Time is key in our business. Billable hours that is about all what is important to lawfirms. This concerns my hours and the hours of my associates to spend. Thirdly, its a game. I do it for pleasure. Do i now need to litigate things i encounter in games like mw? My free time is rather scarse. It is not worth it to loose too much of it for broken units in mw or whatever. And finally it does cost a lot of money. Litigating in the US is not for free. So is gree safe? Definitely not. Given the right circumstances, all the above does not apply.

So when are the right circumstances to initiate true legal action. There are the following possibiliteis:
1. Convergence of many protesters including a bunch of lawyers. That seems to happening right now. Together you motivate the other to dismiss the above obstacles.
2. One single person to whom the above obstacles are orvwere not important. This was the case a few weeks ago. Gree was aware of what was coming their way. They instantly gave the 6 main prizes and made public the leaderboards as a bonus.
3. A competitor begins litigation based on various other legal concepts. This it outside our sphere of influence.
4. Public prosecution for criminal offenses (e.g. Theft, fraud etc). Some of us have filed complaints with the police.

Finally, to address your questions of law. Please note that the property of any product has no bearing the application of laws we are seeking. Look at it this way. Somebody gets to you through advertisement and tells you that if you deposit 1000 dollars, you will receive a digital foto of your mother. You love your mother so you order one and pay. Now, 1 minute later you get a digital foto of your mother in law...... You complain of course ;). Then they say that with mother they meant any kind of mother. Mother in law, stephmother and so on. You wan your money back. Then they say that the foto is their property ;). Then you get mad, and call the lawyer. I guarantee you, you will win ;). Be safe.
Yours

[manbeast]

probably the longest post i've ever actually took the time to read on this forum. very nicely done ferr. is all of your free time consumed with MW? i imagine it takes a long time to collect and open 3,000 boxes haha

[Ferr]

probably the longest post i've ever actually took the time to read on this forum. very nicely done ferr. is all of your free time consumed with MW? i imagine it takes a long time to collect and open 3,000 boxes haha
True, and i have not even started yet what to do with the general conditions. Perhaps one of my lawyer friends can tackle that one lol.

[bigflan]

True, and i have not even started yet what to do with the general conditions. Perhaps one of my lawyer friends can tackle that one lol.

I'm a lawyer too, well not really, actually not even close.

[Captain Steelman]

@captain steelman

The basic premise upon which your whole argument relies is fallacious - namely ACCEPTING THE TERMS OF SERVICE.

Within the EU, a contract with clauses that assign no rights to one party is held invalid - frustration of contract.

There is numerous case law that upholds the rights of both parties within any contract. Gree could however pull the plug on anyone it so chose. However, if it went to court, the court would look at the contract and decide on that. In this case, it has already been decided by the abolition of slavery act, where it was decided that an individual does not have the right to assign all their rights over to another party.

Therefore, all your supporting arguments are null and void.

Of course, the only way to actually test this is in court!

Dhusagar, Thx for your point of view. You seem to know a thing or two....

I see your point and of course you right. However, the Funzio/GREE Terms of service seems to be bulletproof. They proclaims the following ( and now i use my words. The text in the Terms of service is some crazy english.....)

Funzio/GREE provides the game from the US. They have never stated that the game nor the Terms of service are appropriate in other locations. The game is NOT intended to be played by any person in any country where it would be contrary to any law or regulation of that country.

Bad news for all the EU players so to speak...... Just by playing the game from a country, where the abolition of slavery act is applied, is a violation of the terms of service and therefore subject for account termination. I have no idea how anyone can win in a lawsuit against GREE.

I do understand the basic complaint about buying gold and not receive what you paid for. I´m only pointing out the facts about the Terms of service which we all have accepted.

Now i´m going to see what ferr has to say about it.....

[Dhusagar]

Dhusagar, Thx for your point of view. You seem to know a thing or two....

I see your point and of course you right. However, the Funzio/GREE Terms of service seems to be bulletproof. They proclaims the following ( and now i use my words. The text in the Terms of service is some crazy english.....)

Funzio/GREE provides the game from the US. They have never stated that the game nor the Terms of service are appropriate in other locations. The game is NOT intended to be played by any person in any country where it would be contrary to any law or regulation of that country.

Bad news for all the EU players so to speak...... Just by playing the game from a country, where the abolition of slavery act is applied, is a violation of the terms of service and therefore subject for account termination. I have no idea how anyone can win in a lawsuit against GREE.

I do understand the basic complaint about buying gold and not receive what you paid for. I´m only pointing out the facts about the Terms of service which we all have accepted.

Now i´m going to see what ferr has to say about it.....

Unfortunately for Gree, when they distribute through Apple, they also agree to abide by the laws of that country. Therefore, they are contractually obliged to fulfil that contract.

A good example is apple iTunes itself. If I purchase music, it is nothing more than 1's and 0's. If that data becomes corrupted, they are obliged to provide me with a copy that works or a refund. Apple never qualify this. In other words, it is not the music I own, but the contractual right to have access to the working digits that constitute that work.

However, as I have previously stated, this would have to be tested in court. If you work for Gree, I suggest you speak to your legal department - they may still take a different view, but the beauty of contract law is that it great to test. In case you think Gree can't get it wrong, I would refer you to the UK gov v Virgin in their railway franchise. A good example of lawyers getting it wrong big-time!

[iamnasty]

Unfortunately for Gree, when they distribute through Apple, they also agree to abide by the laws of that country. Therefore, they are contractually obliged to fulfil that contract.

A good example is apple iTunes itself. If I purchase music, it is nothing more than 1's and 0's. If that data becomes corrupted, they are obliged to provide me with a copy that works or a refund. Apple never qualify this. In other words, it is not the music I own, but the contractual right to have access to the working digits that constitute that work.

However, as I have previously stated, this would have to be tested in court. If you work for Gree, I suggest you speak to your legal department - they may still take a different view, but the beauty of contract law is that it great to test. In case you think Gree can't get it wrong, I would refer you to the UK gov v Virgin in their railway franchise. A good example of lawyers getting it wrong big-time!

I have no idea about laws or what so ever BUT I made my purchase for MW through ITune Vietnam not ITune USA !!

Cheers

[Captain Steelman]

My boss provided me with 100k of gold for my contributions in this forum. Thx

Noo, just kidding... I´m not working for GREE. I run a small construction company in Sweden. I have no knowledge of the law, but I can read. All i did was reading the terms of service and it appeared to me that most of you guys had not.

If i have perceived it correctly, ferr and Dhusagar emphasizes that the agreement between the player and Gree, dictated in the Terms of service, is violating the laws regarding service and gameproducts. Gree has no legal right to ignore and deny a customer's desire to get a product that meets the promised or receive financial compensation equivalent to the quality loss.
And furthermore, there is indications that point to that this could be a strong case against GREE.

However, this must be tested in court. Doesn´t that mean that until tested in court the Terms of service, as they are written today, will dictate the commitments between customers and GREE...?

Let me put it this way :

GREE-Hi everybody, we have nice units for sale with boost and everything...
Player- Nice, i will spend my money to get it.
Player- WTF, it´s not working. Something is wrong
GREE- Ok, we look into that but i´m not sure we going to do something about it.
Player- ??? What ??? That is a violation of the LAAAAAW.....
GREE- That´s your opinion. According to the terms of service we have the right to do so and you accepted it by downloading and playing the game. Didn´t you read what you signed for..?
Player- Common, that was lot´s of letters and words...... I join the boycott.
GREE- Soooo....?
Player- WOOOW, now we even have lawyers joining the boycott....
GREE- Soooo....?
Player- Now we will go to the court to get this tested and you gonna lose big time because we have a strong case against you.
GREE- Ok, cu there.

Ok, that was a simplified version of the happenings in the forum but am i all wrong with this point of view....? I do understand that if you go and buy nails you should get nails. In this case GREE must have spent a fortune to get the Terms of service written and analyzed before releasing the game. As it is right now they have every right to do what they do until they been proven otherwise in court.
As i see it there is two ways to make money out of a game. Sell it to every customer or ,like GREE, release it for free and charge for in game options and hope to catch some moneycows.....I guess they succeeded with that.....

Conclusion

-GREE is violating the law in some way. According to the law the players are abused.
-The players have accepted the terms of service, dictated by GREE, and therefore has acknowledged themselves to be subordinate to the terms of service.
-GREE has, so far, not violated the terms of service in any way.
-GREE will,must or have to change nothing in the terms of service until they been proven otherwise in the court of law.
-Captain Steelmans point of view has been correct all the time and will continue to be so until the terms of service has been changed as a result of a court order.

The conclusion i copied and pasted from my boss mail..... Nooooooot, just kidding, again …. or am I...?

Anyway, tomorrow i´m back at work after 4 months at home because of a muscle injury in my left arm but I come to visit every now and then to see how it is going for you.

BTW For the first time a copied and pasted a post into a translater. Thx ferr for the experience....

[jeffrey]

After reading your posts about why you called for a boycott, I would like to again inform you of the conditions regarding the game. Most of you do not understand yet but after this i hope you will.

The game in your device is not yours, it belongs to GREE. You did not purchased the game, GREE granted you access to the game for amusement purposes. Not even your username is yours. Your army and your buildings is property of GREE. I know i suggested that one could sell the game account to get something back from all the gold bought but GREE will delete the account and ban you for life if they get knowledge about such a transaction. You can NOT sell what is not yours...

When you buy gold you do not actually own the gold. GREE just gave you access to another gameability, another option of gameplay if you will. What ever you buy with the game gold is still property of GREE. That´s why any parable to real life events is irrelevant.

So when you buy a High A and D unit with boost it is NOT yours. You are only allowed to use it for your own entertainment. The unit it self is property of GREE.

You are however welcome to report errors in the game BUT GREE is, in no way, obligated to fix that error.
You are NOT allowed, in any way, to speak unfavorably about GREE in a way that could be damaging to their business. They have full rights to delete your account without informing you of the reason.

GREE can change the game and the system in the game for whatever reason they want. If a player gets to strong, in a way that it is spoiling the gameexperince for other players, they can, eg remove the boosteffect without further notice.

GREE has a globe-spanning legal exception to operate in the above manner. ”How is that possible...?” you ask......

YOU AND EVERYBODY PLAYING THE GAME ALLOWED THEM THAT BY ACCEPTING THE TERMS OF SERVICE.

Face it, you have no rights to even argue about how you feel misstreated. GREE has every right, you have none. So don´t give me that bull about your lawyer friends that know your right in your arguments. You don´t even have the right to argue.

If you don´t belive me, ask ferr. He is a lawyer, or at least he says so....but i have my doubts....


You sound like GREEdy's general counsel, is this your court cross exam? Thanks for helping us to prepare for the case.

[MonkeyPuppy2012]

What is up with the Penguins?

[jeffrey]

What is up with the Penguins?


Cannot you smile and read??

[iamnasty]

Cannot you smile and read??

Don't expect too much from MonkeyB1tch !!!

[Ferr]

My boss provided me with 100k of gold for my contributions in this forum. Thx

Noo, just kidding... I´m not working for GREE. I run a small construction company in Sweden. I have no knowledge of the law, but I can read. All i did was reading the terms of service and it appeared to me that most of you guys had not.

If i have perceived it correctly, ferr and Dhusagar emphasizes that the agreement between the player and Gree, dictated in the Terms of service, is violating the laws regarding service and gameproducts. Gree has no legal right to ignore and deny a customer's desire to get a product that meets the promised or receive financial compensation equivalent to the quality loss.
And furthermore, there is indications that point to that this could be a strong case against GREE.

However, this must be tested in court. Doesn´t that mean that until tested in court the Terms of service, as they are written today, will dictate the commitments between customers and GREE...?

Let me put it this way :

GREE-Hi everybody, we have nice units for sale with boost and everything...
Player- Nice, i will spend my money to get it.
Player- WTF, it´s not working. Something is wrong
GREE- Ok, we look into that but i´m not sure we going to do something about it.
Player- ??? What ??? That is a violation of the LAAAAAW.....
GREE- That´s your opinion. According to the terms of service we have the right to do so and you accepted it by downloading and playing the game. Didn´t you read what you signed for..?
Player- Common, that was lot´s of letters and words...... I join the boycott.
GREE- Soooo....?
Player- WOOOW, now we even have lawyers joining the boycott....
GREE- Soooo....?
Player- Now we will go to the court to get this tested and you gonna lose big time because we have a strong case against you.
GREE- Ok, cu there.

Ok, that was a simplified version of the happenings in the forum but am i all wrong with this point of view....? I do understand that if you go and buy nails you should get nails. In this case GREE must have spent a fortune to get the Terms of service written and analyzed before releasing the game. As it is right now they have every right to do what they do until they been proven otherwise in court.
As i see it there is two ways to make money out of a game. Sell it to every customer or ,like GREE, release it for free and charge for in game options and hope to catch some moneycows.....I guess they succeeded with that.....

Conclusion

-GREE is violating the law in some way. According to the law the players are abused.
-The players have accepted the terms of service, dictated by GREE, and therefore has acknowledged themselves to be subordinate to the terms of service.
-GREE has, so far, not violated the terms of service in any way.
-GREE will,must or have to change nothing in the terms of service until they been proven otherwise in the court of law.
-Captain Steelmans point of view has been correct all the time and will continue to be so until the terms of service has been changed as a result of a court order.

The conclusion i copied and pasted from my boss mail..... Nooooooot, just kidding, again …. or am I...?

Anyway, tomorrow i´m back at work after 4 months at home because of a muscle injury in my left arm but I come to visit every now and then to see how it is going for you.

BTW For the first time a copied and pasted a post into a translater. Thx ferr for the experience....

You r welcome friend. I m off to work now, just a quick remark then on general terms as i assume right now that you have realised that you property arguments do not uphold in court.

As opposed to what many think, general conditions are not the magic wand for companies to get rid of all liability. If that would be the case no product producing company would be liable for anything anymore. Tonight i will give you a small course on general conditions applicable to consumers as we all are.

[Dhusagar]

You r welcome friend. I m off to work now, just a quick remark then on general terms as i assume right now that you have realised that you property arguments do not uphold in court.

As opposed to what many think, general conditions are not the magic wand for companies to get rid of all liability. If that would be the case no product producing company would be liable for anything anymore. Tonight i will give you a small course on general conditions applicable to consumers as we all are.

No need Ferr - I think the point has been adequately made. People do not just assign their rights to another party, because the other party says so. It is still frustration of contract.

[PIRATE JUSTICE]

I don't need to win my lawsuit, I just need 500, 1,000, 5,000 people to file lawsuits in different countries, states of the US, or anywhere. That's, but step one of my master plan.

The rest I won't reveal to you.

As far as winning, you're right.

No lawyer would post the nonsense you did, so even if I told you the theory of my case, you wouldn't grasp it.

What you believe is of no moment, matter, import, or consequence to me.

Here's a hint for those interested.

If you build widgets, those widgets must perform as advertised.

If you proclaim a widget does "X", however the widget doesn't do "X", it does "M"; or doesn't do anything, you have a very good case.

Invisible boosts, indeed.




Dhusagar, Thx for your point of view. You seem to know a thing or two....

I see your point and of course you right. However, the Funzio/GREE Terms of service seems to be bulletproof. They proclaims the following ( and now i use my words. The text in the Terms of service is some crazy english.....)

Funzio/GREE provides the game from the US. They have never stated that the game nor the Terms of service are appropriate in other locations. The game is NOT intended to be played by any person in any country where it would be contrary to any law or regulation of that country.

Bad news for all the EU players so to speak...... Just by playing the game from a country, where the abolition of slavery act is applied, is a violation of the terms of service and therefore subject for account termination. I have no idea how anyone can win in a lawsuit against GREE.

I do understand the basic complaint about buying gold and not receive what you paid for. I´m only pointing out the facts about the Terms of service which we all have accepted.

Now i´m going to see what ferr has to say about it.....

[Harry Tuttle]

@ Steelman good luck on your first days back at work!
@MonkeyPuppet the penguins are doing something totally lame and transparent that will nevertheless be accepted by the masses, hook line's and sinker, while committing nefarious deeds in the background. They're attempting to distract from their criminal ways, just like Gree. Have you really never seen "Madagascar"?
@Jeffrey I love those freaking penguins, bought the movie on the strength of the trailer clips of the penguins and found that they had almost no presence in the movie except the trailer clips :( They didn't live up to their potential in the later movies either, but I've never seen the TV show...

[PIRATE JUSTICE]

Ferr I suggest you say no more.

Silence is golden.

Don't be baited.

You have nothing to prove or defend.




You r welcome friend. I m off to work now, just a quick remark then on general terms as i assume right now that you have realised that you property arguments do not uphold in court.

As opposed to what many think, general conditions are not the magic wand for companies to get rid of all liability. If that would be the case no product producing company would be liable for anything anymore. Tonight i will give you a small course on general conditions applicable to consumers as we all are.

[Gambit12]

When are you going to make a move Ferr? We have waited so long for you to do something. I'm 20 levels away from Lv 200, if nothings change until then i'll quit this game on the spot, no question ask.

[Agent Orange]

Interesting reading, thank you Ferr and PJ.

I don't think the property issue applies and even if it did the crux of the argument had been that the product was defective. Therefore disclaimer or not and it's enforceability I would suspect that consumer protection laws/acts pertaining to defective products would supersede any disclaimer and therefore the buyer would have more rights than inferred. The other problem is that this issue spans multiple jurisdictions so any disclaimer may be totally worthless based on local laws.

My first thought when I read the OP, so then a restaurant could post a sign on it's premisses such as the following. 'We reserve the right to spit on your food, by eating in this establishment you waive all legal rights and relinquish all claim against the owners and their employees'. Well how well do you think that would fly..... as much as there is a disclaimer it flies totally against any health codes same as Gree using their disclaimer to avoid dealing with country/country/local consumer protection laws.

[Agent Orange]

When are you going to make a move Ferr? We have waited so long for you to do something. I'm 20 levels away from Lv 200, if nothings change until then i'll quit this game on the spot, no question ask.

Just curious but what's the big deal about hitting L200? There isn't much to do as it is now and I'm a few levels above you.

[Gambit12]

Just curious but what's the big deal about hitting L200? There isn't much to do as it is now and I'm a few levels above you.

Lv 200 is the end of free players...

[Ferr]

Ferr I suggest you say no more.

Silence is golden.

Don't be baited.

You have nothing to prove or defend.

I understand pj but this is no trolling. Many have asked me why the general condition would not stand between us and gree. I always responded one to one. This time i will respond in public. Gree will have lawyers as well and know this by heart lol.

[Ferr]

My boss provided me with 100k of gold for my contributions in this forum. Thx

Noo, just kidding... I´m not working for GREE. I run a small construction company in Sweden. I have no knowledge of the law, but I can read. All i did was reading the terms of service and it appeared to me that most of you guys had not.

If i have perceived it correctly, ferr and Dhusagar emphasizes that the agreement between the player and Gree, dictated in the Terms of service, is violating the laws regarding service and gameproducts. Gree has no legal right to ignore and deny a customer's desire to get a product that meets the promised or receive financial compensation equivalent to the quality loss.
And furthermore, there is indications that point to that this could be a strong case against GREE.

However, this must be tested in court. Doesn´t that mean that until tested in court the Terms of service, as they are written today, will dictate the commitments between customers and GREE...?

Let me put it this way :

GREE-Hi everybody, we have nice units for sale with boost and everything...
Player- Nice, i will spend my money to get it.
Player- WTF, it´s not working. Something is wrong
GREE- Ok, we look into that but i´m not sure we going to do something about it.
Player- ??? What ??? That is a violation of the LAAAAAW.....
GREE- That´s your opinion. According to the terms of service we have the right to do so and you accepted it by downloading and playing the game. Didn´t you read what you signed for..?
Player- Common, that was lot´s of letters and words...... I join the boycott.
GREE- Soooo....?
Player- WOOOW, now we even have lawyers joining the boycott....
GREE- Soooo....?
Player- Now we will go to the court to get this tested and you gonna lose big time because we have a strong case against you.
GREE- Ok, cu there.

Ok, that was a simplified version of the happenings in the forum but am i all wrong with this point of view....? I do understand that if you go and buy nails you should get nails. In this case GREE must have spent a fortune to get the Terms of service written and analyzed before releasing the game. As it is right now they have every right to do what they do until they been proven otherwise in court.
As i see it there is two ways to make money out of a game. Sell it to every customer or ,like GREE, release it for free and charge for in game options and hope to catch some moneycows.....I guess they succeeded with that.....

Conclusion

-GREE is violating the law in some way. According to the law the players are abused.
-The players have accepted the terms of service, dictated by GREE, and therefore has acknowledged themselves to be subordinate to the terms of service.
-GREE has, so far, not violated the terms of service in any way.
-GREE will,must or have to change nothing in the terms of service until they been proven otherwise in the court of law.
-Captain Steelmans point of view has been correct all the time and will continue to be so until the terms of service has been changed as a result of a court order.

The conclusion i copied and pasted from my boss mail..... Nooooooot, just kidding, again …. or am I...?

Anyway, tomorrow i´m back at work after 4 months at home because of a muscle injury in my left arm but I come to visit every now and then to see how it is going for you.

BTW For the first time a copied and pasted a post into a translater. Thx ferr for the experience....

Ok captain, for you and all readers here goes some good old fashion law on general conditions. Do not fall asleep ;).

First of all, i am a dutch lawyer practising dutch law. This implies that the laws in every other jurisdiction differ. As such this is true. However, europe is harmonizing laws like these and many times we have adopted certain principles of the US especially where it concerns consumer rights. So much of what i will say here will also apply in most civilised countries of the world.

First of all i would like to tell you here that whatever the general conditions say, i can litigate in the netherlands against gree if gree has assets in the netherlands. And they do lol. For this i would need to put a conservatory attachment on grees assets in the netherlands (bank accounts, real estate etc). Such attachment instantly gives me the right to sue gree in the netherlands. The nicest part is that it is terribly easy to attach assets in the netherlands. I dont need title or a verdict to attach. I just go to court and ask for permission to attach such assets based on a claim which i describe. The court will only marginally check my claim and gives judgement in a few minutes only. The court does not even ask gree what they think about it. The netherlands is the only country in the world which is so liberal as to attachments. Once i receive the permission, i will instruct a dutch bailiff who will then attach the appointed assets. Once that is done i need to lodge a claim within a certain time frame set by the court. Litigation will follow and it is in fact possible that the dutch could would need to apply US law f this would follow from the general conditions. At the end we will get a dutch verdict which can be executed in the netherlands and in the rest of europe. So if gree does not psy up we can execute all their assets in europe. As to the US thatvwill not be possible as the US does not accept a dutch verdict as we have no treaty with the US to that effect. Obviously, we dont care less assuming gree has assets in europe.

Secondly, irrespective what general conditions say they can never supersede public law concepts. I explain. Suppose i agree with you that i will kill you. You sign your death wish and i fullfill my contractual obligation and pull the trigger. From a private law point of view i did nothing wrong. I did commit any breach of contract. In fact if i would not kill you you could sue me for breaking a contact. Here public law kicks in. You will be arrested and go to jail as you have committed a crime and you can not use any contractual clause or general condition in uou favor. Public law supersedes private law. Has gree committed crimes? The answer is yes. Legal concepts such as fraud, tortuous acts, misleading advertisements etc. are all public law crimes/offenses which can not be tempered with by contractual clauses.

Thirdly, and now we are really getting into the law of the general conditions, there are limitation as to what private law allows you to do. In the dutch law you woll find these limitations in articles 6:231 and further Of the dutch civil code (dcc). Most important of these articles are article 6:236 and 237. Article 236 contains a black list of contractal clauses which can not be agreed upon between gree and natural persons (humans lol). If you would agree on such clauses, such clauses would be null and void (in dutch, nietig). Article 236 gives many examples but i will only give you a few relevant ones. If a dutch lawyer reads this i apologize for the simplification of some parts but i assume you will understand.

Article 236 black list:
Sub a says you can not contractally limit the right to claim specific performance. In simple words, if it is advertised that uou get a unit with boosts and you do not get the item once earned or purchased you are entitled to that specific performance whatever the general condition say. Sub c says you can not contractually limit the consumers right to claim with the use of any legal concept dutch law provides. Sub d says you can not contractually agree that the provider of general conditions determines wether or not there is a breach of contract. Sub g says you can not contractually limit or lower applicable time bars. Sub n says you can not contractually agree on another court than the dutch court. Now these are a few black listed clauses. We however als have so called grey listed clauses. These clauses are suspected to be unreasonable but gree is allowed to prove that they are not unreasonable. This is a very heavy burden of proof. I will list two grey listed clauses out of the many others.

Article 237 grey list :
Sub b says that it is unreasonable to agree to limit the obligations of the user (gree) in such way that it creates an unbalance of obligations.
Sub f says it is unreasonable to limit the users obligation to pay damages.

I can almost guarantee you that we have viable claims which are not tempered by the general conditions. In fact, i could give uou an overview of all the gree clauses which i deem to find null and void in whole or in part. I hope you forgive me not doing that for free ;).

Also, there is the question of applicability as Such. The agreement we have is with funzio ltd and not with gree.

I hope the above gives you some insight in general conditions. Perhaps other lawyers can provide some responses from their countries jurisdiction. Before we know it, this forum turns into a conflicts of laws thread lol.

Finally please undrstand that once we start litigating it will not just be about invisible boosts or leaderboards. The main issue will be the structural integrity of the game. Once we start we will need an independent expert to investigate the structural integrity of the game. There are so many structural glitches, mistakes etc that we will demand that gree will at least meet the standard quality levels in this specific branche where consumers are enticed to pay huge amounts. Once we start, there is almost no way back.....
Yours,
Ferr

[iamnasty]

Ok captain, for you and all readers here goes some good old fashion law on general conditions. Do not fall asleep ;).

First of all, i am a dutch lawyer practising dutch law. This implies that the laws in every other jurisdiction differ. As such this is true. However, europe is harmonizing laws like these and many times we have adopted certain principles of the US especially where it concerns consumer rights. So much of what i will say here will also apply in most civilised countries of the world.

First of all i would like to tell you here that whatever the general conditions say, i can litigate in the netherlands against gree if gree has assets in the netherlands. And they do lol. For this i would need to put a conservatory attachment on grees assets in the netherlands (bank accounts, real estate etc). Such attachment instantly gives me the right to sue gree in the netherlands. The nicest part is that it is terribly easy to attach assets in the netherlands. I dont need title or a verdict to attach. I just go to court and ask for permission to attach such assets based on a claim which i describe. The court will only marginally check my claim and gives judgement in a few minutes only. The court does not even ask gree what they think about it. The netherlands is the only country in the world which is so liberal as to attachments. Once i receive the permission, i will instruct a dutch bailiff who will then attach the appointed assets. Once that is done i need to lodge a claim within a certain time frame set by the court. Litigation will follow and it is in fact possible that the dutch could would need to apply US law f this would follow from the general conditions. At the end we will get a dutch verdict which can be executed in the netherlands and in the rest of europe. So if gree does not psy up we can execute all their assets in europe. As to the US thatvwill not be possible as the US does not accept a dutch verdict as we have no treaty with the US to that effect. Obviously, we dont care less assuming gree has assets in europe.

Secondly, irrespective what general conditions say they can never supersede public law concepts. I explain. Suppose i agree with you that i will kill you. You sign your death wish and i fullfill my contractual obligation and pull the trigger. From a private law point of view i did nothing wrong. I did commit any breach of contract. In fact if i would not kill you you could sue me for breaking a contact. Here public law kicks in. You will be arrested and go to jail as you have committed a crime and you can not use any contractual clause or general condition in uou favor. Public law supersedes private law. Has gree committed crimes? The answer is yes. Legal concepts such as fraud, tortuous acts, misleading advertisements etc. are all public law crimes/offenses which can not be tempered with by contractual clauses.

Thirdly, and now we are really getting into the law of the general conditions, there are limitation as to what private law allows you to do. In the dutch law you woll find these limitations in articles 6:231 and further Of the dutch civil code (dcc). Most important of these articles are article 6:236 and 237. Article 236 contains a black list of contractal clauses which can not be agreed upon between gree and natural persons (humans lol). If you would agree on such clauses, such clauses would be null and void (in dutch, nietig). Article 236 gives many examples but i will only give you a few relevant ones. If a dutch lawyer reads this i apologize for the simplification of some parts but i assume you will understand.

Article 236 black list:
Sub a says you can not contractally limit the right to claim specific performance. In simple words, if it is advertised that uou get a unit with boosts and you do not get the item once earned or purchased you are entitled to that specific performance whatever the general condition say. Sub c says you can not contractually limit the consumers right to claim with the use of any legal concept dutch law provides. Sub d says you can not contractually agree that the provider of general conditions determines wether or not there is a breach of contract. Sub g says you can not contractually limit or lower applicable time bars. Sub n says you can not contractually agree on another court than the dutch court. Now these are a few black listed clauses. We however als have so called grey listed clauses. These clauses are suspected to be unreasonable but gree is allowed to prove that they are not unreasonable. This is a very heavy burden of proof. I will list two grey listed clauses out of the many others.

Article 237 grey list :
Sub b says that it is unreasonable to agree to limit the obligations of the user (gree) in such way that it creates an unbalance of obligations.
Sub f says it is unreasonable to limit the users obligation to pay damages.

I can almost guarantee you that we have viable claims which are not tempered by the general conditions. In fact, i could give uou an overview of all the gree clauses which i deem to find null and void in whole or in part. I hope you forgive me not doing that for free ;).

Also, there is the question of applicability as Such. The agreement we have is with funzio ltd and not with gree.

I hope the above gives you some insight in general conditions. Perhaps other lawyers can provide some responses from their countries jurisdiction. Before we know it, this forum turns into a conflicts of laws thread lol.

Finally please undrstand that once we start litigating it will not just be about invisible boosts or leaderboards. The main issue will be the structural integrity of the game. Once we start we will need an independent expert to investigate the structural integrity of the game. There are so many structural glitches, mistakes etc that we will demand that gree will at least meet the standard quality levels in this specific branche where consumers are enticed to pay huge amounts. Once we start, there is almost no way back.....
Yours,
Ferr

Ferr.
Thank you for the clarification. I'm not into law, well half of page of clarification and law, i suppose you are rite, anyone you"re a lawyer, and NEVER well argue with any lawyer without another lawyer !!!

[Ferr]

Ferr.
Thank you for the clarification. I'm not into law, well half of page of clarification and law, i suppose you are rite, anyone you"re a lawyer, and NEVER well argue with any lawyer without another lawyer !!!
What fun it would be if a gree lawyer pops ip in here!

[PIRATE JUSTICE]

Ferr, what you posit is fairly consistent with US law.
The application is a bit different, but the result is headed in the same direction.
However, there are simpler, much less complex ways to achieve a positive result.

[Vballmadam]

PJ can you embellish your above statement here?

[MonkeyPuppy2012]

I can.. if no one else will

[Speed ump]

I think any decently educated person, even one sans a law degree, can understand that gree can be held accountable for the issues in the game. Now that steel has amended his statements, it appears he is now saying that unless anyone does press forward and take the next steps, that we are all stir bound by grees terms, unless they can be willingly enticed into making the needed changes. As such I would in a small way agree with that, but obviously we have started the process and are trying to give gree good reason to make the changes without legal action being required. It would be nice if they would recognize this before thing build to critical mass and more involved steps are taken. Cc mark has remained very quiet lately, and I'm sure his bosses are still not allowing him to respond to any of this, so it appears gree is still on the same track they have always been. After this latest event, and from talking with many players I did not previously have any contact with, I can tell you they have many less shekels to count. Our efforts have made an impact for sure. As long as we stick to our guns I see that effort increasing further. Many of the players on the leaderboard this time seemed to be willing to just sit out the next one. I'm sure we could never achieve mono players on the leaderboard, but if all the top players did not participate, can you imagine an event where 25 crates wins.

[iamnasty]

I can.. if no one else will

She is not asking your opinion, B1TCH !!!!

[Fl@sh]

Any decent lawyer can rip the terms of service to shreds.

[Captain Steelman]

Hallo guys....and girls...maybe.....

Real life work is a tough thing... I see you´re still in a boycott. This guy with the blue letters, ccm or something. He hasn´t commented it at all....? Boostunits still not working..? I don´t have any boostunits myself so i don´t know... I didn´t feel like buying more gold after reading the Terms of service. To buy more gold now is like this :

A restaurant that clearly proclaims :
-That the food, the service and the quality is NOT to be criticized.
-The staff has every right to spit in the food because the food belongs to the restaurant, even after you finished eating it and paid for it.
-That you, by entering the restaurant, understand and subordinates to the rules and regulation of the restaurant.

I think i´ll go and grab a burger somewhere else instead......

What surprises me is that so many DID enter that GREE restaurant and now is shocked about the taste of the food.....????? Did you not see the sign on the door.....?

Well, that´s it for me. I´m out of time. I see you soon....

[Ferr]

Hallo guys....and girls...maybe.....

Real life work is a tough thing... I see you´re still in a boycott. This guy with the blue letters, ccm or something. He hasn´t commented it at all....? Boostunits still not working..? I don´t have any boostunits myself so i don´t know... I didn´t feel like buying more gold after reading the Terms of service. To buy more gold now is like this :

A restaurant that clearly proclaims :
-That the food, the service and the quality is NOT to be criticized.
-The staff has every right to spit in the food because the food belongs to the restaurant, even after you finished eating it and paid for it.
-That you, by entering the restaurant, understand and subordinates to the rules and regulation of the restaurant.

I think i´ll go and grab a burger somewhere else instead......

What surprises me is that so many DID enter that GREE restaurant and now is shocked about the taste of the food.....????? Did you not see the sign on the door.....?

Well, that´s it for me. I´m out of time. I see you soon....
I do like you captain. I am poisoned indeed and should have known. They have supersized me!

[procsyzarc]

Think it all comes down to one thing. Sure there is a case to be made here (and probably against a lost of app makers) but Gree are counting on one thing constantly holding true and that is they can do what ever they like untill someone is actually prepared to spend the huge amount of money and time required to take it to court which never happens. If someone actually does then the floodgates will open making it much easier for others to make claims

[Ferr]

Think it all comes down to one thing. Sure there is a case to be made here (and probably against a lost of app makers) but Gree are counting on one thing constantly holding true and that is they can do what ever they like untill someone is actually prepared to spend the huge amount of money and time required to take it to court which never happens. If someone actually does then the floodgates will open making it much easier for others to make claims
We know, we know......

[Jhenry02]

And we thought it was you Ferr....

[Captain Steelman]

I do like you captain. I am poisoned indeed and should have known. They have supersized me!

I like you too, man... Thx for the education in law. It was instructive.

BTW, I often wounder, what in the real life is this guy running from to spend that amount of cash on a game...? There must be something terribly chasing him for him to escape into the fantasy world of Modern War in that manner.... Maybe I'm wrong, but it's the thought that strikes me...

I do not expect an answer but there is room in my inbox.......

[Ramshutu]

I like you too, man... Thx for the education in law. It was instructive.

BTW, I often wounder, what in the real life is this guy running from to spend that amount of cash on a game...? There must be something terribly chasing him for him to escape into the fantasy world of Modern War in that manner.... Maybe I'm wrong, but it's the thought that strikes me...

I do not expect an answer but there is room in my inbox.......

As a proportion to your overall earnings, I wouldn't find it outside the realm of possibility that you spend more on this game than he does +/- $20.

[Captain Steelman]

As a proportion to your overall earnings, I wouldn't find it outside the realm of possibility that you spend more on this game than he does +/- $20.

If ferr is a billionaire in euro´s you´re probably right.......

[Roypittman]

We know, we know......

I am one of the idiots that failed to read the T&C's too, Coupled with a bit of OCD I ended up spending too much and now risk divorce! There's a lot of people pouring money into this thing, I am no lawer, but with the chance aspects of the game (in that there are probabilities that can be increased if you spend Gold (that youve paid cash for)) does this not really fall under the gaming and gambling regulations?