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View Full Version : I just lost 3000 A/D attacking someone



vaporeon
11-07-2012, 02:21 AM
This person has 17172 attack and 16120 defense with 719 units. How is it that I with 350k+ attack lose my best loot units when I attack someone far weaker then myself? I lost 5 of my 650+ attack units and a bunch of smaller 60+ attack units.

This is annoying and the reason I don't PvP anymore. These causality rates are just insane. And of course, he lost nothing.

Julia Gillard
11-07-2012, 02:32 AM
Ha ha that's funny!

Captain Steelman
11-07-2012, 02:40 AM
Thatīs hard. However, if you had joined the boycott it would never had happend.....

I have the same experience of attacking much weaker players. I have done my biggest lost when i attacked a 8 times weaker player. Of course, i won the battle but my causality rate was insane.... It seems like iīm loosing less and weaker units when i attack player with similar A and D as me. Why..? I donīt know.... Maybe somebody have an answer...?

Proprioc3ption
11-07-2012, 02:42 AM
Because the **** is broke mate! So get on-board.

vaporeon
11-07-2012, 02:44 AM
I do want to join the boycott but I guess what I'm doing is boycotting buying gold and other money makers for Gree. I'm not sure why I'm losing units with a consumption rate of .015 like they are candy. I'm starting to wonder if this is another of those 'false' numbers.

PIRATE JUSTICE
11-07-2012, 02:55 AM
I do want to join the boycott but I guess what I'm doing is boycotting buying gold and other money makers for Gree. I'm not sure why I'm losing units with a consumption rate of .015 like they are candy. I'm starting to wonder if this is another of those 'false' numbers.

We believe, after some exhaustive research, that the attack metric (some call it an algorithm) was tweaked to discourage such attacks.

Oddly enough, if you have an all Gree fake gold army (or fake Gree indestructible loot trinkets), you can attack anyone without losses.

I think you can connect the dots.

So, why not do as hundreds are doing and suspend all game activity?

vaporeon
11-07-2012, 03:29 AM
It really seems like a good idea PJ. I'm just trying to see some light in the darkness of Modern War. I like the game. I really do but the game is really broken.

I mean, if they don't care about what you big spenders say about the game, then I'm not sure what a light to no gold player like myself has no bearing to them. I just want to wait and see what happens with these promised changes.

Guderian40
11-07-2012, 03:55 AM
That's really nonsense. But in the meanwhile I do think, GREE's programmer just cannot handle the balance issue. Neither the one between free and gold players, high and low levels nor the one with the attack/raid balance.

If you win an attack, you are losing. - I know many stragegy games and many war games, I have never seen that so far. Why can't they simply give the winners of an attack more money, valours and stolen units to equalise the lost ones or even "win" in the end?
The other question of balance attacker/defender (strong/weak player) is not such simple, but surely to simply lower the algorithm so that the lower side wins, has nothing to do with strategy, war or game - oh, maybe gambling.

Stay on boycott, thanks again to the organisers of that. Support it, no matter if gold or free player! GREE must put more effort in that game.

PIRATE JUSTICE
11-07-2012, 04:07 AM
It's my belief that the algorithm was tweaked to do four things:

1 - To make the winner and loser of a battle both buy new units.
2 - This game uses pyschology to make you screw yourself. As you lose attacks, you get mad. Eventually, they believe your ego will make you spend real money to buy fake gold to get even for losing.
3 - Gambling is an element of this game, look at the scratchers and the crates.
4 - The creator of this game is being investigated in Japan. Their home country for creating unregulated online gambling.

Be careful, this isn't what it appears to be.

I'll be posting much mre on this next week.

Guderian40
11-07-2012, 12:54 PM
It's my belief that the algorithm was tweaked to do four things:

1 - To make the winner and loser of a battle both buy new units.
2 - This game uses pyschology to make you screw yourself. As you lose attacks, you get mad. Eventually, they believe your ego will make you spend real money to buy fake gold to get even for losing.
3 - Gambling is an element of this game, look at the scratchers and the crates.
4 - The creator of this game is being investigated in Japan. Their home country for creating unregulated online gambling.

Be careful, this isn't what it appears to be.

I'll be posting much mre on this next week.

PJ, very interesting points! Please keep me up to date, that is very similar to what my first impressions about these kind of "games" were.

Tctiger
11-07-2012, 01:17 PM
I suspect all farmed units die rapidly when you go on the attack so farming more than you lose could be impossible unless you camp, that's what it was like when I farmed 100 mini subs anyway.

Товарищ
11-07-2012, 01:30 PM
It has been officially stated that the target's A/D stats don't affect the casualty rate.
I don't know if anything else with the target affects casualty rates, I'm guessing the system is simple enough to not. So all attacks are equal.

If I understand correctly, the "consumption rate" is a probability to die each "use".
0.015 means 1.5% to die, or 15 deaths in a 1000 attacks.
So every attack there's a 1 - 0.015 = 0.985 = 98.5% chance that unit survives.
If you have two of them, it's first 0.985 for the first to survive (not die), then another 0.985 for the second, so 0.985 * 0.985 = 0.985^2.
For N such units the probability of losing NONE is 0.985^N.
So the prob to lose ANY (1 to all) is 1 - 0.985^N, which for 10 becomes 14% and for 100 is 78%
If you do M attacks the prob to lose NONE is (0.985^N)^M, likewise to lose ANY is 1 - (0.985^N)^M; so 5 attacks with 10 units is 53% to lose at least 1.

The conclusion is that the more unit's you "use" the higher the risk that any of them will die. Which is why I want to keep my allies down...!

Maverick50727
11-07-2012, 01:52 PM
This person has 17172 attack and 16120 defense with 719 units. How is it that I with 350k+ attack lose my best loot units when I attack someone far weaker then myself? I lost 5 of my 650+ attack units and a bunch of smaller 60+ attack units.

This is annoying and the reason I don't PvP anymore. These causality rates are just insane. And of course, he lost nothing.
I might be able to answer that for you. First need a bit of information from you.
1.) how many attacks did you do
2.) units lost (name)
3.) total qty of units you have of those lost

Currious also you say that you are low end gold spender. Mind given a ballpark number of gold puchased or used? Wonder how people classify themselves and ranges considered low-medium.

Dry
11-07-2012, 02:32 PM
Same thing happened to me ,, iam loosing a lot of units to a low stat players ,,
Well 2 more days ,, if its not fixed ,, I won't play this game !

Agent Orange
11-07-2012, 02:41 PM
Funzio rejigged the fight mechanic months ago so that those not buying gold units but farming high end loot units or valour units would easily loose them even though you are attacking players with much lower stats.

Therefore the best solution, don't attack....

And for those being attacked by much stronger players, target their incoming units with your defences so in other words stock up on Global Hawk Drones to take down air units and Stealth Frigates and Scouts to take down Sea Units. I also use other units to target ground units such as AA units. Might as well exploit the fundamental flaws in the fight mechanics to your advantage....

andy_xyz2004
11-07-2012, 02:55 PM
I suspect all farmed units die rapidly when you go on the attack so farming more than you lose could be impossible unless you camp, that's what it was like when I farmed 100 mini subs anyway.

What kind of farmed units has 650+ attack stats,
Sorry if im wrong, but so far i know just Executive chinook with 450 attack stats

Julia Gillard
11-07-2012, 03:13 PM
Same thing happened to me ,, iam loosing a lot of units to a low stat players ,,
Well 2 more days ,, if its not fixed ,, I won't play this game !

No great loss

Dry
11-07-2012, 03:17 PM
Stick a finger ,, well ,, you know wher !

Julia Gillard
11-07-2012, 03:19 PM
Stick a finger ,, well ,, you know wher !

That's no way to talk to a PM

Dry
11-07-2012, 03:22 PM
Pm?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,

Julia Gillard
11-07-2012, 03:23 PM
Pm?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,
Typical stupid American

Dry
11-07-2012, 03:29 PM
I am not American .. Ner ner

manbeast
11-07-2012, 03:48 PM
What kind of farmed units has 650+ attack stats,
Sorry if im wrong, but so far i know just Executive chinook with 450 attack stats

siege tanks

vaporeon
11-07-2012, 03:51 PM
I consider myself a low gold spender. I only used about 3500 gold. Maybe a bit less then thats. I did 5 to 7 attacks. Just enough to finish a goal. Within those attacks, I lost 4 M1-V Macedonian, 1 Executive Chinook, 2 Transport Raiders. Then I loss a bunch of smallers 60+A/50+D units. Don't remember their names.

Ryans67
11-07-2012, 04:05 PM
I'd quit attacking after I lost the first Macedonian....:eek:

andy_xyz2004
11-07-2012, 04:14 PM
siege tanks

Thx manbeast, but i though siege tank were only 410, based on maverick map loot item

Proprioc3ption
11-07-2012, 04:14 PM
That's really nonsense. But in the meanwhile I do think, GREE's programmer just cannot handle the balance issue. Neither the one between free and gold players, high and low levels nor the one with the attack/raid balance.

If you win an attack, you are losing. - I know many stragegy games and many war games, I have never seen that so far. Why can't they simply give the winners of an attack more money, valours and stolen units to equalise the lost ones or even "win" in the end?
The other question of balance attacker/defender (strong/weak player) is not such simple, but surely to simply lower the algorithm so that the lower side wins, has nothing to do with strategy, war or game - oh, maybe gambling.

Stay on boycott, thanks again to the organisers of that. Support it, no matter if gold or free player! GREE must put more effort in that game.

Game balance should be a high priority for all developers...unfortunately GREE are so far showing us they don't care about balance.
As a programmer and someone who has been a balance tester for games such as Starcraft, it's vital you get it right. To neglect and ignore it is sheer stupidity, and sometimes it takes a strong stance from the games players to get this message across to the developers that we will not stand for it.

Here are some suggestions I made on my boycott thread;

"GREE would be more successful in developing this game on three tiers;
1. Free game - Initial $5 cost to purchase the game but remain in the limited level or map range till you decide to subscribe. (Because GREE that's all it's really worth.) this player will not be seen by or attacked by theirs 2 or 3.
2. Subscription game - Initial cost of $5 to purchase the game. Ongoing monthly subscription fee of $5 because that's all it's worth and that's all the time and effort the company seems to be putting in.
3. Gem buying Subscriber - as previous, $5 initial cost, $5 monthly subscription fee and a subscription to purchase gems for a high end gamer. Once you choose this path you will be in a high end class of players where money and strategy will dictate play. However, the ridiculously inflated prices will need to be adjusted as follows;"

1. 99c - 85 Gems
2. $1.95 - 170 Gems/Gold
3. $2.90 - 255 Gems/Gold
4. $3.85 - 340 Gems/Gold
5. $4.80 - 425 Gems/Gold
6. $5.75 - 510 Gems/Gold
7. $6.70 - 595 Gems/Gold
8. $7.65 - 680 Gems/Gold
9. $8.60 - 765 Gems/Gold
10. $9.55 - 850 Gems/Gold
...
19. $18.15 - 1615 Gems/Gold
20. $20 mega Gem pack - 2000 Gems/Gold

It's still very profitable, without the inflated prices that they have so far...which is very reminiscent of a gambling agenda considering how many events are now focusing on scratch n win, pay to open a box to recieve ransom stuff but you can very often recieve nothing for your purchase.


It's my belief that the algorithm was tweaked to do four things:

1 - To make the winner and loser of a battle both buy new units.
2 - This game uses pyschology to make you screw yourself. As you lose attacks, you get mad. Eventually, they believe your ego will make you spend real money to buy fake gold to get even for losing.
3 - Gambling is an element of this game, look at the scratchers and the crates.
4 - The creator of this game is being investigated in Japan. Their home country for creating unregulated online gambling.

Be careful, this isn't what it appears to be.

I'll be posting much mre on this next week.

PJ, I'm surprised this has not been addressed earlier as GREE have gradually been sneaking more and more events in that are undoubtedly gambling.
Thanks for picking this up too in my post on the other thread, this is a serious offence. GREE would best put this matter to rest ASAP by removing anything associating a link between this game and gambling or else they will find themselves in court.

Harry Tuttle
11-07-2012, 05:01 PM
I think they already have over their other games, in Japan. If I recall correctly this problem was solved because you're not gambling money directly, only "gold". I may be wrong and I didn't Google it before I wrote this but I seem to remember that huge fines were involved and that's why you use "gold" now. Same as the slot machine or bingo apps.

andy_xyz2004
11-07-2012, 05:11 PM
I think they already have over their other games, in Japan. If I recall correctly this problem was solved because you're not gambling money directly, only "gold". I may be wrong and I didn't Google it before I wrote this but I seem to remember that huge fines were involved and that's why you use "gold" now. Same as the slot machine or bingo apps.

Or pachinko, using small iron ball ��

Harry Tuttle
11-07-2012, 05:24 PM
OK so I just came from Google. I had the details all mostly wrong :) They were investigated earlier this year over games where you pay for cards and try to make sets. Like Pokemon poker I guess. I don't really understand their other card based games. They set up voluntary maximum spending limits, blah blah blah, I didn't read it all but wanted to clarify that my statement was wrong. Anyone who's interested Google "Gree games investigation"

Speed ump
11-07-2012, 05:41 PM
Julia, I sure hope you don't think all us Americans are stupid, just the stupid ones

jeffrey
11-07-2012, 05:49 PM
I am not American .. Ner ner

You are not alone here, Dry. :o

jeffrey
11-07-2012, 05:59 PM
This person has 17172 attack and 16120 defense with 719 units. How is it that I with 350k+ attack lose my best loot units when I attack someone far weaker then myself? I lost 5 of my 650+ attack units and a bunch of smaller 60+ attack units.

This is annoying and the reason I don't PvP anymore. These causality rates are just insane. And of course, he lost nothing.



vaporeon, we mourn for your loss, but shouldn't the little fruit flies deserve a fighting chance too??

vaporeon
11-07-2012, 06:01 PM
vaporeon, we mourn for your loss, but shouldn't the little fruit flies deserve a fighting chance too??

Of course they do. I was just looking to find someone weak so I could complete a mission and maybe not lose units. I mean, we don't have battle points so there is not use in attacking someone as strong as me. This is a game and the stronger player should have the advantage of the weaker player. It's like this in every game I've ever played.