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View Full Version : Gree have exposed the myth and shattered the illusion



Burn
10-31-2012, 09:17 AM
Gree have made a huge commercial blunder this weekend, the Toilet Papers gave people a peek at having high stats, and they will have realised that it actually makes little or no difference - same crap different numbers.

See luring people into spending Gold is a little like the story of the Emperors New Clothes - if enough people talk it up, then everyone agrees, and everyone buys into it - the myth lives on and grows in power.

"Imagine how much stronger I'll be if I win that PVP prize" You won't be.

"Imagine how much better the game will be when I am stronger" It won't be.

"Imagine what a difference that modifier will make to my game" It won't change anything.

Everything you aspire to having in the game is a myth - the game is what you make it, no more no less, and however much Gold you spend changes nothing in real terms.

Spend $100 and you change absolutely nothing.

Spend $1000 and you change your rival list a bit, you now get beaten up by different players.

Spend $10000 and you change your rival list a bit, you now get beaten up by different players.

Look at point 2 and 3, expenditure of between $1000 and $10000 is where Gree make their big bucks. The reality is that you actually gain nothing (except bragging rights maybe), but because the spend is $100 here and a $100 there, no-one considers the total spend, it isn't usually spent in one big splash, but in drips and drops.

But Gree have just given everyone a taste of that one big splash - people have experienced a stat increases that would have cost 10's of 1000's of $, and once the excitement died down and the giddy feeling of power subsided, do you know what most sensible people realised?

They changed their rival list a bit, and they now get beaten up by different players. ;)

Yep, they got to take a look at life as a CC big shot, and now everyone knows, just like the Emperors New Clothes, it's just one big scam.

Gree have perfectly demonstrated to everyone that the dream they sell us every day... "Buy more Gold and be Great", is just an illusion, smoke and mirrors, a confidence trick.

In any Pay to Win game it is all about the journey to the destination, the Yellow Brick Road that you travel along for days, weeks and months in order to get your dreams fulfilled by the Wizard of Oz. Paying handsomely in Gold along the route naturally.

The problem for Gree is... Metaphorically speaking they took you to Oz this weekend, they bypassed the arduous journey along the Yellow Brick Road, instead flying you straight to Oz on a Magic Carpet made of Toilet Paper. And just like in the movie they let you have a peek behind the curtain. It wasn't what you expected was it. No the Wizard wasn't some all powerful omnipotent being. Nope, it was just you pressing some buttons and pretending it was something bigger.


Summary:

Gree sell non existent dreams. This weekend they showed everyone just how non-existent they are. Big commercial mistake.

I think in time to come, when Gree bean counters and analysts crunch the data, they will reflect on this weekend as the time when CC Gold sales started falling.

What is your opinion on the weekends events?

Dipstik
10-31-2012, 09:31 AM
Ummm... yeah. I'm surprised it took you this long to realize all of this, but better late than never :)

Dhusagar
10-31-2012, 09:32 AM
Gree have made a huge commercial blunder this weekend, the Toilet Papers gave people a peek at having high stats, and they will have realised that it actually makes little or no difference - same crap different numbers.

See luring people into spending Gold is a little like the story of the Emperors New Clothes - if enough people talk it up, then everyone agrees, and everyone buys into it - the myth lives on and grows in power.

"Imagine how much stronger I'll be if I win that PVP prize" You won't be.

"Imagine how much better the game will be when I am stronger" It won't be.

"Imagine what a difference that modifier will make to my game" It won't change anything.

Everything you aspire to having in the game is a myth - the game is what you make it, no more no less, and however much Gold you spend changes nothing in real terms.

Spend $100 and you change absolutely nothing.

Spend $1000 and you change your rival list a bit, you now get beaten up by different players.

Spend $10000 and you change your rival list a bit, you now get beaten up by different players.

Look at point 2 and 3, expenditure of between $1000 and $10000 is where Gree make their big bucks. The reality is that you actually gain nothing (except bragging rights maybe), but because the spend is $100 here and a $100 there, no-one considers the total spend, it isn't usually spent in one big splash, but in drips and drops.

But Gree have just given everyone a taste of that one big splash - people have experienced a stat increases that would have cost 10's of 1000's of $, and once the excitement died down and the giddy feeling of power subsided, do you know what most sensible people realised?

They changed their rival list a bit, and they now get beaten up by different players. ;)

Yep, they got to take a look at life as a CC big shot, and now everyone knows, just like the Emperors New Clothes, it's just one big scam.

Gree have perfectly demonstrated to everyone that the dream they sell us every day... "Buy more Gold and be Great", is just an illusion, smoke and mirrors, a confidence trick.

In any Pay to Win game it is all about the journey to the destination, the Yellow Brick Road that you travel along for days, weeks and months in order to get your dreams fulfilled by the Wizard of Oz. Paying handsomely in Gold along the route naturally.

The problem for Gree is... Metaphorically speaking they took you to Oz this weekend, they bypassed the arduous journey along the Yellow Brick Road, instead flying you straight to Oz on a Magic Carpet made of Toilet Paper. And just like in the movie they let you have a peek behind the curtain. It wasn't what you expected was it. No the Wizard wasn't some all powerful omnipotent being. Nope, it was just you pressing some buttons and pretending it was something bigger.


Summary:

Gree sell non existent dreams. This weekend they showed everyone just how non-existent they are. Big commercial mistake.

I think in time to come, when Gree bean counters and analysts crunch the data, they will reflect on this weekend as the time when Gold sales started falling.

What is your opinion on the weekends events?

I believe there is a lot of truth in what you say. I have attacked more people in one day, than I did in the previous eight months combined. It was good while it lasted, but the only real difference is that I am now nine levels higher. I know the TP won't last, but if it helps me get another boss, then it is also helping me with my personal goals. At the end of the day, it hasn't made any real difference except the level of adrenaline that peaked this weekend.

Dravak
10-31-2012, 09:33 AM
Am the King of Toilet paper :p !!!!

No seriously Gree are awesome and a happy halloween .
That game was always there Burn , why do you think I didn't mind to give away a 2,5k€ account to somebody .
just that somebody was guiliable and tought I was stupid hahahaha .... karma .

Sorry this is the game and you either accept it have fun or not , if people leave others will come in and play it .
Seen people with 100k stats on my way up with the first account quit , cause they found out .

These "scam" are done cause people want it , nothing in the world will open there eyes .
Sorry it is not a scam if you want it badly , you are buying virtual goods , that is equal to air .
You are trading paper money (that has a currency value) for a ingame currency value ...

Honestly if you question that system , you should question WTF are we doing ?
As long as people have fun , they should realise they are donating , nothing more nothing less .
If people stop having fun , and cannot control there budget , like most people can't in real life .
Then by all means do what I do , find a splendid way to exit .
The toilet paper was worth another 210€ , to have fun :) , In real life I will pay a lot more then that for toilet paper ;) ..

I guess most people will not understand this post ahahah.

maxxyme
10-31-2012, 09:48 AM
Can't agree more. That's why I don't spend any money in any kind of games like this one (and not just the ones from ex-Funzio/GREE).
I would prefer a paid app (some are good even if 0.xx worth) instead of this freemium gaming style.

Deluxe
10-31-2012, 09:51 AM
I didnt even bother going for TP because i knew that the next guy, who was +50k stats to begin with and able to kick my ass, would add just as many (or more) TP and still be able to kick my ass. Also, looking at how easily they disappear (i burned thru almost 150 of a foe's TP in a single robbery sweep), i realized the gold it would take to refill stamina and actually have a chance at retaining a certain volume of TP would be for naught. My next, stronger enemy would come thru and wipe me clean. Just like gold spending...another $5k real money and the next guy will still come thru and kick my ass. This isnt an epiphany for me, had come to this realization some time ago, but Burn is right, this TP fiasco has illustrated very well how futile it is to try to be better/stronger in this game...

mxz
10-31-2012, 09:53 AM
I thought the event was fun. A nice way for some free players to get unattainable stats, albeit temporary. There was a lot of excitement in whether you'd net gain or net loss TP. The new building brought us economists together for a few days. Fuzzy's HM deco thread was my favorite thread of the last few weeks. It was temporary, but it was fun and sparked a lot of us to get out of our comfort zones and do something different (my camper has almost the same stats as my main right now). And I found a few other campers to harvest in the process. Love the effort and dedication to be bold by Gree on this one. Kudos.

BOS
10-31-2012, 09:56 AM
I've really enjoyed this event. Taking my a/d from 78/88 - 154/156, has given me the chance to win a few fights I wouldn't have otherwise :cool:. Sure it's only temporary, but what in this game isn't. Today's high powered crates will be tomorrows common rubbish.

From a "low stat" upper level player. This event was very cool. :cool:

SiennaSharpe
10-31-2012, 09:59 AM
I thought the event was fun. A nice way for some free players to get unattainable stats, albeit temporary. There was a lot of excitement in whether you'd net gain or net loss TP. The new building brought us economists together for a few days. Fuzzy's HM deco thread was my favorite thread of the last few weeks. It was temporary, but it was fun and sparked a lot of us to get out of our comfort zones and do something different (my camper has almost the same stats as my main right now). And I found a few other campers to harvest in the process. Love the effort and dedication to be bold by Gree on this one. Kudos.

I'm with MXZ. I thought the combo of events the last few days was fun.

dudeman
10-31-2012, 10:11 AM
I still think they're phasing out CC. Shattering the illusion that high stats make a difference is a pretty good way to get a few people to lose interest. That box event with awful open rates and worse bomb drop rates occurring simultaneously with the "peek behind the curtain" could not have been a coincidence either.

If you look at all their other games, CC doesn't really fit in anymore. It's just different. Old. Almost obsolete. Gree have found newer, even greedier methods to sell gold, only now they prefer to call it gems. Same cost for 1500, but the in game costs are higher in the other games, and in MQ gem units are consumable if they aren't of a certain class (or better). That sounds like the ultimate Gree plan. Sell gems so people can buy virtual monsters, then have the monsters "consumed" so players will have to spend more because they don't get to keep what they bought.

Are you fking shtting me?! Lol!

KizbotBro
10-31-2012, 10:17 AM
You havent even mentioned the effect of the Haunted Mansion. This building available to all, costs just 100 gold. If you have been saving a bit then easily obtainable from tapjoy gold. The HM upgrades are free, upgrading to level 10 costs nothing but the time (which is something over 20 days to complete) and the results is a 41K IPH increase!
My new Android account that I just started is at level 5 has been upgrading it ever since purchase, when done my IPH will be around 55k, probably 60K considering the upgrades are free allowing me to save up and build my Lofts.
Im enjoying it at the moment but does seem a tad OTT.

Dipstik
10-31-2012, 10:19 AM
You havent even mentioned the effect of the Haunted Mansion. This building available to all, costs just 100 gold. If you have been saving a bit then easily obtainable from tapjoy gold. The HM upgrades are free, upgrading to level 10 costs nothing but the time (which is something over 20 days to complete) and the results is a 41K IPH increase!
My new Android account that I just started is at level 5 has been upgrading it ever since purchase, when done my IPH will be around 55k, probably 60K considering the upgrades are free allowing me to save up and build my Lofts.
Im enjoying it at the moment but does seem a tad OTT.

40k an hour is "over the top?" If you feel like spending your tapjoy gold on this, go ahead. I'd rather buy pirate taverns.

fuzzy
10-31-2012, 10:22 AM
I jumped from 60k attack to 100k attack due to TP. Not as much as the King of TP but still up 40k.

Like I told you yesterday Burn, it is false advertisement of my stats.

So yes they made a big mistake. My stats are either 60k or 100k I learned it makes no difference to me. I always told my self it wouldn't but I got to play with those 100k attack and now I know for sure that it makes no difference.

My game play change zero with the 100k attack. Use all bullets as much as I can. I will give hits and take hits every 2 hours. Only thing difference is the names.

KizbotBro
10-31-2012, 10:23 AM
40k an hour is "over the top?" If you feel like spending your tapjoy gold on this, go ahead. I'd rather buy pirate taverns.
Im at lvl 5. Long wait for the Pirates!

What I mean though is that at lvl 5 Im gonna have a building paying out the same IPH as a lvl 1 Casino. Which is not available till you reach lvl 145 and costs some $60M!

Idiokus
10-31-2012, 10:44 AM
Hey hello everybody!!! I had a great time with this event...would be cool if we could actually keep one roll of toilet paper in the end as a prize for just collecting and being able to hold on to a few til end of event. Indestructible of course:-) Because we all know how hard it was to hold on to them. I never do auctions here or on MW I'm trying so hard to camp but this time around because of event I was sitting on 108 boxes. I managed to open 15 and got gun reward pleased with that...so events like these I dig and will awake any hardcore camper, so keep them coming it was loads of fun:-)

NTM
10-31-2012, 10:48 AM
i don't neef event TP for see how they work..


u pay ? ur strong that all. don't need TP Bro sry...

u pay more ? ur strong and got good IPH..

mxz
10-31-2012, 10:53 AM
That box event with awful open rates and worse bomb drop rates occurring simultaneously with the "peek behind the curtain" could not have been a coincidence either.Open rates and drop rates appeared normal. They haven't changed those and likely won't since its a chore to get 20 for free (only a couple of us). As long as their distributions keep coming in as a Gaussian curve (around maybe 10? That's my guess) they wouldn't appear to have an incentive to raise/lower them. (Side note: I think they might have a few months ago, but don't have enough data to prove it)

SinSir
10-31-2012, 11:24 AM
To be perfectly correct, gree have made no blunder by having a random drop on TP's via pvp.

Every person who spent gold on pvp did it because of the want of having to be in a shout at the top ten or they just started late to get the 650 fight threshold.

The TP's were just an added extra to help(sarcasm) the campers to level up.
If your a camper and your not leveling up and your stats a higher than the average player you have no reason to worry about collected on time or banking your cash.

By allowing a temporary boost 20 toilet rolls be enough for some at lower levels to hit a few campers.

So would have caused even camper to even participate (problem solved)

Who cares what anyone spends on this game or any other game.

Most people started playing this game including yourself believing you'll never need to spend a cent/penny on this game.
If you did kudos to conzio/gree.

Only point people brag about the money they've spent is because it's hurt their psyche.
If I buy anything regardless what I've spent, is something others don't care.
No offence.

No yellow brick road in my eyes as the game 'crime city' is a game of very few rule and whichever ways it's played is fine. (Gang member, PvP specialist, Robbery specialist, Map Quester, Goal follower, Income specialist, event specialist eta eta)

Alot of player chop and change to the time.

I for one didn't participate in the PVP event.

I think gree gave me an option if you participate, we offer TP's, a gun after 650 fights & a chance to win one of ten mischief makers for coming in the top ten.

To me how did gree cheat anyone when they've clear stated the facts.

What's the catch or conspiracy you're talking about.

Anyway nice hearing from you Burn.
Don't take this the wrong way.

Dravak
10-31-2012, 11:29 AM
I think people got the wrong idea about a lot of things , stats is meaningless in this game ...
Win Lose , that is the first thing shark tanks teaches you , unless you can pay big ...
Even then you have to contend with hackers , that all P2W games are ridddled with ...

You pay for emotions , good, bad , angry , love , hate , envy , greed etc ...
That is what our society at this moment pays for , that people feel scammed sorry it isn't .
It is our current society way of living .

Emotions cost money , expressing emotions cost money , going out to socialise cost money .
Everything cost money , that people feel it is a scam , it is cause they are forced to compete by themself .
Sorry ultimate enemy in these games is the person themself . conquering that is the whole life purpose .

The rest is just fun and games , if you have fun you pay , if you don't have fun you walk away .
Unlike real life , you cannot walk away when you don't have fun .

WestLondon
10-31-2012, 12:06 PM
Burn don't you have a get back to work meeting to attend to.

DenZ1
10-31-2012, 12:30 PM
I still think they're phasing out CC. Shattering the illusion that high stats make a difference is a pretty good way to get a few people to lose interest. That box event with awful open rates and worse bomb drop rates occurring simultaneously with the "peek behind the curtain" could not have been a coincidence either.

If you look at all their other games, CC doesn't really fit in anymore. It's just different. Old. Almost obsolete. Gree have found newer, even greedier methods to sell gold, only now they prefer to call it gems. Same cost for 1500, but the in game costs are higher in the other games, and in MQ gem units are consumable if they aren't of a certain class (or better). That sounds like the ultimate Gree plan. Sell gems so people can buy virtual monsters, then have the monsters "consumed" so players will have to spend more because they don't get to keep what they bought.

Are you fking shtting me?! Lol!
Seriously???? Perishable paid items???? Wtf...... That's retarded. I wanna see those players who are not millionaires...

:) Agre with Burn and Dudeman... Phasing out obsolete to make a room for new greed. :) Keep spending...

DenZ1
10-31-2012, 12:32 PM
I think people got the wrong idea about a lot of things , stats is meaningless in this game ...
Win Lose , that is the first thing shark tanks teaches you , unless you can pay big ...
Even then you have to contend with hackers , that all P2W games are ridddled with ...

You pay for emotions , good, bad , angry , love , hate , envy , greed etc ...
That is what our society at this moment pays for , that people feel scammed sorry it isn't .
It is our current society way of living .

Emotions cost money , expressing emotions cost money , going out to socialise cost money .
Everything cost money , that people feel it is a scam , it is cause they are forced to compete by themself .
Sorry ultimate enemy in these games is the person themself . conquering that is the whole life purpose .

The rest is just fun and games , if you have fun you pay , if you don't have fun you walk away .
Unlike real life , you cannot walk away when you don't have fun .
There are way cheaper and pleasurable ways to pay for emotions :)

Dravak
10-31-2012, 12:36 PM
Offcourse there are , but blaim nexon for earning 9 billion a year with emotions like these .
So I guess they provide what the majority wants .

the_dude
10-31-2012, 12:40 PM
I think if they want to keep this game going they need to open up new levels and increase the mafia cap. I would guess the higher level gold spenders are getting pretty bored by now.

jobadass
10-31-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm having fun building my stats, just to see how high I can get them...almost at 100k now.
@Burn, you are totally correct, makes no difference. Especially because attacking someone with better than 30k real defense will eat up at least one TP in 10 attacks. Also, I seem to be losing 'legit' attack explosives much easier. My pre-TP attack was @56k, and I would almost NEVER lose attack explosives unless my rival had better than 45k real defense.

It's nice to look at 90k+ stats in my profile, but I know it's not a true reflection, and even if I don't lose them all tonight, it won't be long and I may have ticked off a lot of people with better real stats then me:)

WestLondon
10-31-2012, 01:28 PM
Offcourse there are , but blaim nexon for earning 9 billion a year with emotions like these .
So I guess they provide what the majority wants .

Nexen (note the spelling) was a very clever bet on the exchanges, I gambled on that particular one, not professional a personal one, in 40k they got bought out by cnoc the Chinese oil firm, raked it in. See people like you will always play a mugs game and collect the giro.

Do some research and you tell me if I'm bluffing. Lol dravak your so far behind the likes of me its laughable.

You wanna talk sound investments and futures give me a shout you might learn something

murf
11-01-2012, 09:08 AM
Nexen (note the spelling) was a very clever bet on the exchanges, I gambled on that particular one, not professional a personal one, in 40k they got bought out by cnoc the Chinese oil firm, raked it in. See people like you will always play a mugs game and collect the giro.

Do some research and you tell me if I'm bluffing. Lol dravak your so far behind the likes of me its laughable.

You wanna talk sound investments and futures give me a shout you might learn something


You can't use the words 'gambled on' and 'sound investments' in the same argument. I hope you understand the difference.

the_dude
11-01-2012, 10:38 AM
^+1

----------

<3 Hz
11-01-2012, 12:50 PM
I'd say in order to REALLY dominate in this game, you'd need to purchase at least 10,000 vaults or $1 million USD. If I win powerball, maybe lol but until then I'll stick to being a (mostly) free player.

Paulio
11-01-2012, 01:03 PM
Great summary, Burn. Lots of truth in there. But it sure was fun!

Elastic Earl
11-01-2012, 06:23 PM
I thought it was a great weekend. Tons of action. The beauty of this game is it is your choice whether to spend real money or not. The moment it stops being fun is the time to walk away. I am still having fun and for now Gree still has their hooks into my wallet because of it. Why complain if you don't like it? Just leave.

Zendfrim
11-01-2012, 07:05 PM
This is the second time burn and I have ever agreed on anything.

Burn
11-01-2012, 07:20 PM
Maybe I'm not the evil monster u think I am, we're just fighting for different sides.

You on the other hand, are an evil monster ;)

PawnXIIX
11-01-2012, 07:26 PM
This is the second time burn and I have ever agreed on anything.

Quickly, somebody call the ONN :O

Dakid
11-01-2012, 10:26 PM
this weekend was alot of fun imo. well done gree/funzio. what better way to spend halloween then to let active players become "monsters" via TP for a few days. My only complaint is my ridiculously elevated stats won't let me appreciate my new pvp weapon until they wear off (really did anyone get excited over 100/100?). Word to the wise rob some people before they gone these give robbers major advantage for a limited number of big robs.

Insert gif of the great cornholio :), sorry all of em i found were way too big for what i can post...

DenZ1
11-01-2012, 10:42 PM
I'd say in order to REALLY dominate in this game, you'd need to purchase at least 10,000 vaults or $1 million USD. If I win powerball, maybe lol but until then I'll stick to being a (mostly) free player.
$80k will do it. Won't need a mil :)

Tommy_K
11-02-2012, 05:21 AM
And don't forget the TP started when the first boss event on android was still running

it helped me get 2 more bosses down(still only got to lvl 10 but withouth TP i could only manage to get lvl 8 down)
So i thought the combo was great


And offcourse there's always someone else who will rob/kill you. But that is the truth for all games and even for all things in real life where there's always someone better at something.

Nicky the Nose
11-02-2012, 06:15 AM
I had fun and will give a tip of the hat to Gree. Everyone that worked on these event at Gree, CONGRATS. That said I agree with Burn, the fake stats from the TP, along with the daily scratcher have/will hurt the game in the long run.