How the infirmary works and why it doesn't?

[Mad]

I want to give a bit of an overview on how I think the infirmary works and why it doesn't work for many. This is just my theory and I could be completely out to lunch.

The known facts

We know two things for sure:

1. Each unit is assigned a consumption or casualty rate. This number reflects how vulnerable the unit is to being destroyed. The lower the number the stronger the unit. For example, Gold units essentially have a "consumption rate" of O, meaning they can't be destroyed.

The "Aircraft carrier" which has a "very low" casualty rate has a consumption rate of .07%. The Stealth Survellance Drone (SSD) which also has a "very low" casualty rating has a consumption rate of 11% and the Amphibious Hovercraft (AH) which as a similar designation has a casualty rate of .14%. Of these three, the Aircraft Carrier is the least vulnerable unit.

On the other extreme the Demolitions man is designated with a "Very High" casualty rate and its number is 4.22%.

2. From discussions on this board, we know the infirmary reduces the consumption rate for each unit. So a level 5 infirmary reduces the consumption rates for each unit by 10% (2% per level). The aircraft carrier goes from .07% casualty rate to .063%. The SSD from .11% to .099%, the AH from .14% to .126% and the Demolitions expert from 4.22% to 3.798%.

How does this work in real game play?

But the real question is how does this work in actual game play? The following is just my theory.

When we attack or defend, based on a number of factors MW determines if we win or lose the fight and as well if we lose units. The critical numbers are of course the difference between the Attacking and Defending scores, the number of skill we have designated for attacking and defending, units that reflect strong against, boosts etc.

Once that has been determined it decides if you will lose units. Depending on how bad you were beaten determines the level of losses. It does this by saying you will lose two units with a casualy rate of say .25% or higher. If it was just a slight loss it could be lose two units 2.00% or higher.

I am not sure at this point if it randomly selects units .25% or higher or if it selects the first two units available above that number. I think it is random because people have reported if they tend to lose more of a specific unit if they have lots of them. Meaning there would be a greater chance they are selected over other units.

Essentially the bigger the loss, the lower the number MW will go to select losses. The lower the number the more units there are to select from. The higher the number the fewer there are to select. Also I think to some extent some of the more valuable units have lower casualty rates, so they become vulnerable.

Why the infirmary only kind of works

However, many complain the infirmary doesn't work. They have not noticed a reduction in losses. If my theory is true there is a logical reason for this.

Lets say you were in a battle and you took a bit of a beating. MW said you will lose two units of .10% casualty rate or higher. You have an infirmary at level 5 with a 10% reduction. The casualty rates for the SSDs are reduced from .11% to .099%. This means they have dropped below the threshold and are no longer available to be chosen for losses.

But the AH only had its Casualty rate reduced from .14% to .11% and it is still above the threshold and two AHs are destroyed.

In this case the Infirmary did not reduce the number of casualties, it just resulted in different units being chosen for losses.

The Pros and Cons of the infirmary

If what I have proposed is in fact true, what is the infirmary good for?

1. It is good for those battles where you are evenly matched (as a defender) or somewhat stronger. If MW says you will lose units say 2.00% or higher, the infirmary could push all your units below that threshold, leaving none to be chosen.

2. The infirmary will not reduce the number of units lost when you are battles where you are out matched resulting in a low cut off for units chosen for loses. It will simply cause other units to be selected.

3. It does help neutralize the boosts. When we go into battle the stats we see for our opponent do not include the boosts. Though we may be stronger we do not have a clear picture of the indiviuals boosted stats. A high level infirmary helps compensate for this and essentially helps neutralize the boost stats of the other player.

4. It can protect important units. I think as well the infirmary helps protect important units such as Aircraft Carriers. If you lose a lot of AC , upgrade your infirmary. A level 10 infirmary lowers the Aircraft carrier's carriers casualty rate from .07% casualty rate to .056%. This may push them below the cut off rate for some of your battles.

Conclusion

Again this is just my theory, and I could be completely out to lunch.

[Tctiger]

They have said casualties are not linked to rival strength but I think they are , if I fight a really low rival I can not lose any units in 10 fights , if I fight a rival around my stats I can expect to lose high valor and cash units most fights so how are they not linked? And more importantly why do they deny this? I suspect more randomness with these things than in depth computer programs calculating battles.

[Mad]

They have said casualties are not linked to rival strength but I think they are , if I fight a really low rival I can not lose any units in 10 fights , if I fight a rival around my stats I can expect to lose high valor and cash units most fights so how are they not linked? And more importantly why do they deny this? I suspect more randomness with these things than in depth computer programs calculating battles.

I agree I think there is some randomness. This game uses lots of odds and I think in battles you have a range of losses that can occur. If you are quite a bit stronger, the odds are you won't lose units, but the odd the time you will. I think it is similar to the chances of getting rare, uncommon and common units in the Boss events. Though you should not lose units, the odd time through simple chance you lose units. It won't happen all the time.

All the infirmary does is push units out of this selection process.

[Baraka]

Sorry but too much to read. I have never and will never upgrade my Infarmary. I loose 3minimum an 5 max a fight. Can't see how upgrading it will make any difference.

[Poopenshire]

Many people over the past 5 months upgrades it to the maximum level and saw no difference in thier loses. Its been posted on here in a few threads.

[BigDog146400220]

Very interesting read, but I don't think the infirmary does anything. Furthermore, I don't think any of the casualty reductions do anything. I have Ops jet Pilot, level 3 infirmary, and blackshark heli. Combined should be 28% reduction. None of them work. It's just like the assault bear boost....invisible. Invisible=doesn't work.

I also inquired to support about rival strength and was told it had nothing to do with casualties. That is absurd. I have proven this time and time again for myself. If i attack/attacked by someone 1/2 my stats or below then I have no casualties. Any attacks/defends against rivals with same or better stats.. 1-4 units lost every time.

[manbeast]

i don't think the losses are determined that way.

mark said each unit you bring to battle basically rolls the dice to see if it will live or die, if it dies, then the next unit has a reduced chance of dying.

but he wouldnt say which order your units roll the dice

[Dr. Dengus]

Rival's strength might not have anything to do with casualties, a but rival's unit count compared to yours definitely has an effect. If I bring 1500 units to battle, and happen to stumble across a rival who has 800 units in his entire army, then it's go time because I will hardly lose any units, if any at all. Because this guy is bringing 1/2 the units to battle as I am, his stats are obviously going to be much weaker.

It really is hard, or at least mildly time consuming, to find rival's with really low unit counts, because 9 times out of 10 they are players who have quit. But if you're trying to limit your casualties while farming valor through PvP missions, this is the best way to go. Definitely not the best return on BP's though.

[Ascent]

I think it is the same as with the bear... "it works" for them may mean there is actually code implemented even though the effect is not there. When I read 20% less casualties, I expect to see 20% less units lost on avarage and not some mumbojumbo about some algorythm that in their mind may mean the same. It does not work period.

[Dreno33]

i don't think the losses are determined that way.

mark said each unit you bring to battle basically rolls the dice to see if it will live or die, if it dies, then the next unit has a reduced chance of dying.

but he wouldnt say which order your units roll the dice

true. and maybe it could be random. never asked him.

@OP - remember. each fight, each time you go into battle, raid, defense etc, you start all over again. Just b/c you lost a particular unit last fight, doesnt mean that that loss was recorded and therefore reduces the chance of it dying next battle b/c of its casualty rate. That's non sense, and many ppl seem to forget that.

[Mad]

Very interesting read, but I don't think the infirmary does anything. Furthermore, I don't think any of the casualty reductions do anything. I have Ops jet Pilot, level 3 infirmary, and blackshark heli. Combined should be 28% reduction. None of them work. It's just like the assault bear boost....invisible. Invisible=doesn't work.

I also inquired to support about rival strength and was told it had nothing to do with casualties. That is absurd. I have proven this time and time again for myself. If i attack/attacked by someone 1/2 my stats or below then I have no casualties. Any attacks/defends against rivals with same or better stats.. 1-4 units lost every time.

If you are fighting people close to your stats or stronger, there will be no noticeable difference. If you are targeted to lose two units you will still lose two units, all the infirmary does is transfer the loss to different units. But as a result, people will see those two units disappear and say it is not working.

However, the value here is that it strengthens the casualty numbers of units you value and may push them below the chosen cutoff and thus remove them from selection. For example, if a person has a lot of air craft carriers, then I would say absolutely upgrade your infirmary as it will strengthen the Aircraft carrier's casualty values.

For example, if after a battle, MW determines you are to lose five units of .07 casualty rate or higher, with a .07 casualty value Air Craft carriers would be on that list. If you have a infirmary at level 5, the Air Craft Carrier casualty value drops to .06 and can no longer be considered for a potential loss. Of course, other units such as the Stealth Surveillance Drone with .11 casualty rate will not drop below the .07 threshold even with the 10% infirmary reduction, so you may lose SSDs instead. But many would prefer losing SSDs over carriers.

So the infirmary has value in protecting expensive units.

[Ascent]

If you are fighting people close to your stats or stronger, there will be no noticeable difference.

STOP RIGHT THERE :)

I did not see any fineprint saying under which circumstances will it work or not work. It says 20% less casualties period. I expect that to be the case every friggin time I press the trigger no matter who I fight.

[Mad]

STOP RIGHT THERE :)

I did not see any fineprint saying under which circumstances will it work or not work. It says 20% less casualties period. I expect that to be the case every friggin time I press the trigger.

Then I would suggest you check your infirmary again as mine says "lower unit casualty rate!"

That is a direct quote and I believe refers to the units casualty rate which I have been discussing?

[Mcdoc]

Very interesting discussion - although we are all just speculating off our own experiences. At least with the forums we can compare notes and exchange theories - but ultimately our conclusions will only be unproven theories.

I AM however able to lower my casualty rate by targeting people with a lower BP rank than me. I am halfway through the Colonel Rank and I just target Lieutenants, Sergeants, and below - and I find that if I am only getting 95 BP or below I almost never lose units - but when I get to 98 to 110 BP - I will lose a unit about every 4th battle - but once I get to 120 or above BP points - I lose a unit or two every battle.

I know that BP is nOt a true measurable stat when looking at an enemy - but I use the BP rank to test the waters and get a semi-accurate gauge of how strong my Rival is without having to take time to travel to their base and look a thier stats.

Occasionally I will find a LT who was a heavy camper or heavy Gold Spender who has really high stats - but 98% of the time - their rank is a good indicator for a safe attack in my experience.

Just a quick tip :)

[Lordsloss]

If someone has the LCG, is there a point to having this building?

[Ascent]

Then I would suggest you check your infirmary again as mine says "lower unit casualty rate!"

That is a direct quote and I believe refers to the units casualty rate which I have been discussing?

I see... in that case I must accept your reasonings :)

Do the other bonus items say the same thing? Those casualty reducing units?

[Thief]

Based on all of the Discussions of Infirmary not working i decided to leave mine at level 1 for awhile until someone finds a value that can be measured or until i run out of other useful upgrades.....I have a feeling i'll have quit the game before either of those happen however :(

[Mad]

I see... in that case I must accept your reasonings :)

Do the other bonus items say the same thing? Those casualty reducing units?

I am not sure. I suspect that is what the other units are doing as well.

I am just suggesting how it might be working. I could be completely out to lunch on the mechanics. As well, even if I am right on the mechanics, this does not mean it is actually working.

I only suggest this as a possible explanation. It does explain why some people don't notice a reduction in the number of casualties. Because in many situations the infirmary would not reduce the number of losses, but would instead change what units are lost. That might be of value to people holding Aircraft carriers as an example.

[Maverick50727]

Rival's strength might not have anything to do with casualties, a but rival's unit count compared to yours definitely has an effect. If I bring 1500 units to battle, and happen to stumble across a rival who has 800 units in his entire army, then it's go time because I will hardly lose any units, if any at all. Because this guy is bringing 1/2 the units to battle as I am, his stats are obviously going to be much weaker.

It really is hard, or at least mildly time consuming, to find rival's with really low unit counts, because 9 times out of 10 they are players who have quit. But if you're trying to limit your casualties while farming valor through PvP missions, this is the best way to go. Definitely not the best return on BP's though.
Not to you Dr. Dengus, but to add why casuality is indirectly tied to stats in appeaance.

Indirectly the strength affects it due to the fact the higher you go in stats, the higher units you have to buy to increase you stats. The higher stat units also typically have the low consumption rates. Go figure. CCM also has stated that having a army with lower consumption rates will reduce your loses more than one with higher consumption rates. Duh!

Also the dice roll thing comes into play again with your comments on someone only have 800 units in their entire army. If dice rols are done per unit, the less you have to roll the device the less you have the potential to lose. Makes sense.

Also having lower ally count below your max can let you control sometimes which units you bring to battle. I did this the past to push out my lowest units if they had high consumption rates to reduce their loss. I only bought high consumption units wehn I knew they couldn't be used in my army so I cold use them in PVE without having to inccur the high cost os losses of them in PVP also.

Just some tips and things to think about.

[plavine]

I am level 134- 48k attack; 47 k defense, I have attacked players with 1/2 my stats and still lose low casualty units. The only difference the infirmary has shown me is that I rarely l rarely lose more than 3 units now in one attack ( my infirmary is level 4).
Btw - what us with the rivals board the last month, I either have level 90-100 or level 150 and above. I hardly see any one at level 120- 150.
]Very interesting discussion - although we are all just speculating off our own experiences. At least with the forums we can compare notes and exchange theories - but ultimately

I AM however able to lower my casualty rate by targeting people with a lower BP rank than me. I am halfway through the Colonel Rank and I just target Lieutenants, Sergeants, and below - and I find that if I am only getting 95 BP or below I almost never lose units - but when I get to 98 to 110 BP - I will lose a unit about every 4th battle - but once I get to 120 or above BP points - I lose a unit or two every battle.

I know that BP is nOt a true measurable stat when looking at an enemy - but I use the BP rank to test the waters and get a semi-accurate gauge of how strong my Rival is without having to take time to travel to their base and look a thier stats.

Occasionally I will find a LT who was a heavy camper or heavy Gold Spender who has really high stats - but 98% of the time - their rank is a good indicator for a safe attack in my experience.

Just a quick tip :)[/QUOTE]