Question on def mechanics

[SevenO9]

I am being stalked by this CK guy for days now. No 5 hours without attacks. As he has a very high rob count and solid stats I didn't care too much. Today however I tried to retaliate and to my suprise failed.

My attack: 60k, plus I have 340 attack skill points
His def: 95k, he has only level 1 gattlings, no crazy high deff builds

I tried to rob, not attack!
I lost 10 out of 10!
According to all I know on game mechanics I should not loose 10:0.

DidI miss something? Anyone care to explain?

[iteachem]

What was his true defense from the rob attempt. The fact that he has only level 1 defense buildings means that his defense is right on and not inflated at all.

[Dravak]

Check the MW threat for defense and attack skill multiplier , CCM explained the secret , so you have 340 skill points muliplied by the random factor (think linked to attack stats , aside from standard 10 above level 100) .
His 95k can be boosted by defense skills , but like said in all doubt report and move on .

but according to some beta tester , there is no more difference between attacks and robberies .
when I tested two weeks ago , didn't see any difference in defense between a attack and a robbery .

[SevenO9]

All numbers are from the fight result screen. You can't see all possible def builds but they can't be more the 5k def total. My understanding of game mechanics and experience tells me I can rob up to 200% my attack unless the victim hasn't some crazy high def from buildings.

[Dravak]

no the attack and defense skills ad much more based on stats , was trying to find cheaters who had skill points altered , let say they couldn't even touch me .
One of them was very persistant in modifying his files , coming back every 3 days .

But seems 70k difference was too much for his hacks to work , especially since allocated 100 defense skills .
This is one of the mystery in CC that keeps changing every week >.< .
What works fine last week suddenly can be trouble the week after , there is no 100% garantee how attacks robberies etc works out , what I read from MW explanations , was that there is also a - multiplier .
or that is what they presume , but the random factor even explained now .
Is still very hard to pin down , your 340 skill above 100 , can be a difference from 3400 - 340k based on your stats .

[SevenO9]

your 340 skill above 100 , can be a difference from 3400 - 340k based on your stats .

Thanks Dravak but could someone please elaborte on this as it is inconsistent with everything discussed on this forum before.

[_dan_]

Suspicious def skill point cheater! or you may miscalculate his building defense somewhere..

With those stats, you should win at least 50% robbery, not 0%.

[Dravak]

Thanks Dravak but could someone please elaborte on this as it is inconsistent with everything discussed on this forum before.

below 100k stats things are what they discuss on the forums , once past 200k the whole game is a different ball game with skillpoints it seems ..
That is what I noticed from my toon . but like said too few really past 200k to give solid proof . so only my test that is inconclusive .
Best ask babytway she has the highest attack skill points and robberies , how she fairs against AMG who is above 150k def .

[_dan_]

Skill point multiplier is x10 (for lvl 100+). Don't you read the epic boss event, how they sum your attack point towards boss ? = total attack point + attack skill points x 10. No mystery anymore!

[Dravak]

Skill point multiplier is x10. Don't you read the epic boss event, how they sum your attack point towards boss ? = total attack point + attack skill points x 10. No mystery anymore!

dan go read MW explanation from the only source CCM how the multiplier works .
then you get a understanding . that basis x10 is the bare minimum .

[_dan_]

dan go read MW explanation from the only source CCM how the multiplier works .
then you get a understanding . that basis x10 is the bare minimum .

Sorry Dravak, I never trust CCM since the very beginning. He just causes more confuse to every right thing. He did give a sample of multiplier in CC forum long ago, with a very fake number like x50 something and we find out only x10 max.

[Dravak]

Sorry Dravak, I never trust CCM since the very beginning. He just causes more confuse to every right thing. He did give a sample of multiplier in CC forum long ago, with a very fake number like x50 something and we find out only x10 max.

like I said he is not a engineer , and every couple weeks the formula keeps changing .
I can only give you my hunches and what I consider test , and even then I can be wrong .

We all know cheaters excist so report them move on . if too many cheaters altered the formula of attack and robbery .
Then they do something about it .
So far haven't seen the old formula where people had 1 million attack skill or defense skill .
And that guy was persistant .

[jobadass]

@OP
I haven't read about defense mechanics, but have plenty of experience.
I will tell you that if someone's true defense is 50% greater than my attack, I succeed at robbing them about 0% of the time.
Those whom my defense is 50% greater than their attack succeed in robbing me about 0% of the time. Just what I've noticed in tracking my news feed.

If your A is 60 and their D is 95, their D is roughly 60% better than your A. You will be lucky to ever be successful.

[chimera69]

What was his true defense from the rob attempt. The fact that he has only level 1 defense buildings means that his defense is right on and not inflated at all.

I agree completely. With only level 1 def buildings, what you see for that players def #'s is very likely exactly what you're up against. The other thing I don't think you've considered is what his/her def skill points are - you may have 340 attack skill points but the other player could have 400 def skill points.

[DBM 2IC]

@OP
I haven't read about defense mechanics, but have plenty of experience.
I will tell you that if someone's true defense is 50% greater than my attack, I succeed at robbing them about 0% of the time.
Those whom my defense is 50% greater than their attack succeed in robbing me about 0% of the time. Just what I've noticed in tracking my news feed.

If your A is 60 and their D is 95, their D is roughly 60% better than your A. You will be lucky to ever be successful.

Yep Im the same.. Think this might just be another case of jealously.

[PawnXIIX]

Robbing somebody today, my stats versus his 33k defense I lost more than 50% of my robs...I have 93 skill points in attack so I was definitely confused. It was worth it until I got back to my hood, banked then an hour later said I lost 300k in an attack <.<

[_dan_]

@OP
I haven't read about defense mechanics, but have plenty of experience.
I will tell you that if someone's true defense is 50% greater than my attack, I succeed at robbing them about 0% of the time.
Those whom my defense is 50% greater than their attack succeed in robbing me about 0% of the time. Just what I've noticed in tracking my news feed.

If your A is 60 and their D is 95, their D is roughly 60% better than your A. You will be lucky to ever be successful.

That's no true to many people. Many people complain in this forum since Aug/2011 till now that they are robbed by players just having attack point = 50% of their defense. Even I experienced being robbed by people have atk point less than 50% of my defense.

[iteachem]

That's no true to many people. Many people complain in this forum since Aug/2011 till now that they are rob by players just having 50% of their defense. Even I experienced being robbed by people less than 50% of my defense.

But most of those playerS if not all have upgraded defense. I can hit double when their is a glut of upgraded defense... If no upgrades it it significantly less than double for me. It's quite rare that I run across someone with a high defense that isn't somewhat inflated..

[_dan_]

But most of those playerS if not all have upgraded defense. I can hit double when their is a glut of upgraded defense... If no upgrades it it significantly less than double for me. It's quite rare that I run across someone with a high defense that isn't somewhat inflated..

Let take that input to do some mathematics, I like it!

CK v.s S09 - aka 90k v.s 60k

* CK rob def: (x number of level missile defense building + some other => assume total = max 50 missile buildings)
CK building Def = 50 x 42 = 2100
CK mob defense = 90,000 - 2,100 = 87,900
CK total defense for rob is 87,900 / 2 + 2100 + (???x10) = 46,050 + ???x10
(*) ??? is CC defense skill points

* S09 rob atk
60k + 340x10 = 63,400


CK def must >> S09 atk

46,050 + ???x10 >> 63,400
??? >> 1735 skill points.

(*) >> is much more greater than

each level gives 3 skill points, 1735 / 3 = 578 levels. Wow, That's cool!

[SevenO9]

Oh finaly someone applies the same math I have in mind. Thanks dan.

I was under the impression that for robbery defense you bring 50% your item def + 100% your building def + def skill points. Thats why from the viewpoint of the robber, little or only low level def builds are good, while from the viewpoint of the attacker (which is not the case here) high level def builds are good as they only inflate your victims real def.

As they guy had some juicy 24 hours building uncollected I tried my luck again. Burning my full 75 energy I broke him like 10 times, propably less. My chances went up as I destroyed land mines during the process. So actually I can hit him only with a very low propability.

The reason I started this thread is neither me being jealous or sour nor do I suspect any foul play. I am simply trying to get a conversation started arround game mechanics because it seems what we took granted for a long time is no longer 100% true.

[_dan_]

It's better if he could co-operate, but it's not possible for a cheater to admit.

Anyway, I still base on that formula to build my defense and it work perfectly. No-banking & no worry for a possible robber or attacker (till a cheater appear :) )

[PawnXIIX]

Still...I'm confused how I failed to beat this guy with just 9k more defense than my attack O.o

23k attack vs. 32k defense and I lose 2/3 attacks on his buildings ._.

[Dravak]

Yes seven , that was my testing 2 weeks , hit the same assumption the attacks and robbery are to me the same .
Example I hit somebody with low number of defense buildings , attack him first shows his defense value .
Then since low number of defense buildings , I went robbing him , so basicaly his defense value should change on his sheet .
if robbery is half his items value , nope not one point difference showing up .

So but then again don't trust the sheet one bit , I just have hunches they keep changing the mechanics once in a while .
Also basically if I attacked somebody who has cheated skillpoints (some of the idiots boost on there walls) .
First 2 attacks , seems to be connection problem , then you finally get trough , and win win win ;)
Only one time somebody DC me and was gone from my rival list , he probaly level jump right away .
(very unlikely gree banned him at the same time , cause was not finished harvesting the 300k)

So honestly I don't know , like said seems some of us are playing with different rules then others .
So serious don't know all this is pure speculation , but definetly what we know has been changed .
And answers by betatester that attack and robbery uses the same mechanics for some , speculation 2 while others still use the old mechanics ?
I don't know , only thing I am able to nail down , that increase in stats every 100k , means increase in attackskill value . something I had a theorie about .
Now for those less then 100k stats , the old saying might hold true 1 skill points is 10 value , seems back then was tested with 40-60k stats. not 100k -200k stats .

[Lonestoner]

But most of those playerS if not all have upgraded defense. I can hit double when their is a glut of upgraded defense... If no upgrades it it significantly less than double for me. It's quite rare that I run across someone with a high defense that isn't somewhat inflated..

Due to tycoon inflating the numbers, even if the buildings are level 1.. For instance, gatlings show 28 defense at level 1 with tycoon, but only give 25 effective. If this is still the same, of course.

[Daniel2115]

Due to tycoon inflating the numbers, even if the buildings are level 1.. For instance, gatlings show 28 defense at level 1 with tycoon, but only give 25 effective. If this is still the same, of course.

Tycoon? No. The defense numbers shown for the buildings aren't the true defense you get out of it thus "inflating your numbers". Bodyguard agencies at lvl 10 show 800 something defense but ive read on here you only get about 50 points added to your true def. not sure what the exact numbers are but it's something around those

[PawnXIIX]

Tycoon? No. The defense numbers shown for the buildings aren't the true defense you get out of it thus "inflating your numbers". Bodyguard agencies at lvl 10 show 800 something defense but ive read on here you only get about 50 points added to your true def. not sure what the exact numbers are but it's something around those

Yes but I like it because the players who aren't aware of this fall into 2 separate pitfalls. They think they're safe, and on top of that if they see that in my hood they attack less because they're not aware that 10 of them only provide 500 real defense as opposed to the 8000 it makes it look it :P

[Lonestoner]

Tycoon? No. The defense numbers shown for the buildings aren't the true defense you get out of it thus "inflating your numbers". Bodyguard agencies at lvl 10 show 800 something defense but ive read on here you only get about 50 points added to your true def. not sure what the exact numbers are but it's something around those

I've read up on this extensively. Tycoon bonus does also apply to your defensive buildings, whether you believe it or not. I started out with agent and upgraded to goodfella and watched my defense go up.

Check the wikia page for defensive buildings.

Check the all-in-one spreadsheet for the tycoon / regular bonus.

I realize there is a discrepancy between the defense shown and the actual defense used (where I used the term effective).

If you actually understood what I was responding to, and what I was saying, you may have had a relevant post.

I meant that, the reason you rarely run across someone who doesn't have inflated defense is the fact that even though the defense shown isn't the actual defense used, people that understand that fact and use all level 1 defense buildings still will have an inflated number due to tycoon / goodfella (if they have it).

The only ways I know of where you can use your full listed defense is having no defense buildings, or a load of them at level 1 without having a tycoon / goodfella bonus.

[Daniel2115]

I've read up on this extensively. Tycoon bonus does also apply to your defensive buildings, whether you believe it or not. I started out with agent and upgraded to goodfella and watched my defense go up.

Check the wikia page for defensive buildings.

Check the all-in-one spreadsheet for the tycoon / regular bonus.

I realize there is a discrepancy between the defense shown and the actual defense used (where I used the term effective).

If you actually understood what I was responding to, and what I was saying, you may have had a relevant post.

I meant that, the reason you rarely run across someone who doesn't have inflated defense is the fact that even though the defense shown isn't the actual defense used, people that understand that fact and use all level 1 defense buildings still will have an inflated number due to tycoon / goodfella (if they have it).

The only ways I know of where you can use your full listed defense is having no defense buildings, or a load of them at level 1 without having a tycoon / goodfella bonus.

Misread your first post, I didn't think you were talking about only level 1 buildings. I was thinking that you thought tycoon was the only thing that inflates all def buildings not just level 1, figured you were just using the Gatling gun as an example