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Euchred
09-04-2012, 05:49 PM
Are you someone that doesn't have free banking? but you want to maximize your income? And happen to be a high level? then this thread is for you.

I've been getting a lot of questions on my wall recently about not banking and I also see a lot of forum members starting to hit the income where it can be considered. So I thought I'd break down my experience so far and let others decide if it's for them. It's worth noting that this is for players on the low side of attack and defense stats. I'm personally creeping up to 50k/50k.

A good place to start if you decide not banking is a route you want to consider is this well put together thread by Nicholost. http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?23389-No-Bank-Analysis It breaks down the math quite nicely. This scenario has a few differences but that's the gist of it.

The downside,

We'll get the obvious question out of the way first "Do you get attacked constantly carrying all that dough?" The simple answer is yes almost assuredly. If your win loss record is something you take pride in or you have specific rivals that you don't want to give a dime to, then this probably isn't for you. You will get attacked from all sides whenever that orange icon is above your head. So why do I do it? we'll get to that.

The Math,

The important stuff you need to know is that is the max amount of money you can lose to rivals per day from attacks is 3.6 million dollars or euros or w/e. in order to counteract that you need to be making 36 million per day or conveniently 1.5 million an hour.

Should you start at 1.5 million an hour? I would say no. in order for this to be worth your time I'd recommend that you're making at least 2 million an hour in collectible income. This means if you don't collect your nightclubs 4 times a day your income will need to be higher. Also if you're upgrading a Nightclub your actual income will be less, it's something to take into account.

Why it works for me,

As a neutral player, relatively small gold spender and a generally mellow person. I've never had any long standing rivalries, so it's very easy for me to not worry about who I get attacked by. This is crucial. You don't want to be getting angry over petty attacks even if you are losing 300k every 2 hours, if you do you won't last long.

What I get out of it,

When I was making 3 million an hour it equaled 72 million per day, If you're only losing 3.6 million a day then you're making 5% more then you would be by banking. Sure it's not a tremendous amount but it adds up.

Collecting,

This point might vary from person to person but for me I withdraw 1 $ after every collection to sync my hood with the servers. The reason being that if I collect then leave my app open CC doesn't register the collection therefore my buildings could still be robbed. You don't want that.

TLDR If you're making over 2 million an hour and don't mind getting your butt kicked all day this could be for you :)

erik
09-04-2012, 07:47 PM
Good read. Just be sure to never reveal the secrets of ping pong banking ;)

Murda
09-04-2012, 07:49 PM
Good read...... Have you monitored how many times a day you actually get hit for $300,000?

I would assume that there would be some time between attacks, before someone notices you on the list again. The max amount of losses a day would be 12. How close are you coming to getting attacked 12 unique times in 24 hours.

That would change the math slightly. And defensive explosives, as I have found out, entirely make no-banking a futile endeavor. Losing a cool million in explosives on top of the $300k hurts a bit.

Euchred
09-04-2012, 08:16 PM
Good read. Just be sure to never reveal the secrets of ping pong banking ;)

Never, if they can't figure it out themselves they don't deserve it. It does take some special skills though and pretty specific circumstances.

@ Murda not a day goes by in which I don't lose the full 3.6 million, it would have to be broken down into weeks to see if I actually might have saved something extra. Defensive explosives are a big no no for anyone with my stats at level 200 never mind not banking too. My stats including 500 mafia.

Khayman
09-04-2012, 10:50 PM
Do you know what is the most safe mafia bracket for no banking at level 200?

I am level 114, casual spender with 47k/47k (top 0.5% in stats of my level or so) and i must drop to 300. There i am safe but not with 500. Dammit, the CK guys are professional pirates LOL.

Is not a problem (except with boss events) because still i can do the TL goals but not sure if i can do it with 300 at level 200. Will I see there the 500 mafia enemies having 300?

Paulio
09-05-2012, 01:18 AM
Thanks for this thread, Euchred. I've been meaning to ask one of your high iph players this for awhile.

BOS
09-05-2012, 06:31 AM
Do you know what is the most safe mafia bracket for no banking at level 200?

I am level 114, casual spender with 47k/47k (top 0.5% in stats of my level or so) and i must drop to 300. There i am safe but not with 500. Dammit, the CK guys are professional pirates LOL.

Is not a problem (except with boss events) because still i can do the TL goals but not sure if i can do it with 300 at level 200. Will I see there the 500 mafia enemies having 300?

You will not see 500 mafia @ at level 200 until you have 414 in your mafia.

white frog
09-05-2012, 08:10 AM
Great subject to bring up Euchred! I also wanted to mention that there is a "No-Banking Test Sheet" in the 4.0 version of the spreadsheet. It's a great tool that helped me determine the effectiveness of not banking! It's very easy to use, and will tell you if not banking is making you money or losing you money!

Vile Lynn
09-05-2012, 08:21 AM
Euchred - great thread! I might have to try this when I get up there.

I have been on&off, semi-no-banking a couple of months now, meaning I leave out what I collect or no bank what I don't spend on explosives, usually under 100K. It's no big deal to me to lose $ or attacks, but it makes me happy when players think they "caught me with my pants down," (figuratively, of course!) when, in reality, I let them have it, the $ was there for the taking. They were going to attack me anyway & I can always rob them later for more if I want. :) All in good fun!

BOS
09-05-2012, 08:21 AM
Good read. Just be sure to never reveal the secrets of ping pong banking ;)

I wish I could play ping pong...

Swearengen
09-05-2012, 08:26 AM
Awesome post. Been no banking with no problems untill recently lvl 126. Good to know what it will take in the upper lvls to no bank profitably.

Euchred
09-05-2012, 03:04 PM
Thanks guys and gals

@ khayman The experience I have with bracketing in the shark pool is that I dropped to 340 once and it wasn't low enough. it seemed only one specific person with 500 mafia could see me so they hit me relentlessly. But there were others at low counts that attacked me but they were easier to befriend. It seems like something you would have to test. I personally wouldn't drop, I like hanging out with my pals at 500.

Olly1
09-05-2012, 03:58 PM
Nice summary. OP out of interest do you get hit for 300k every 2 hours at level 200?

I may be missing something with that ping pong comment so someone feel free to pm me what that's all about!

Steve0
09-05-2012, 04:04 PM
Nice summary. OP out of interest do you get hit for 300k every 2 hours at level 200?

I may be missing something with that ping pong comment so someone feel free to pm me what that's all about!+1 if it for real ....

Burn
09-12-2012, 12:58 AM
Very very annoying, every day I see Euchred (and BOS) on my rival list.

Both guys are good peoples, so I got no reason to attack them, this means every time I see their names I have to fight the desire to rob them, knowing I could grab 30K plus R for every hit.

Very very annoying :P

dudeman
09-12-2012, 01:44 AM
Very very annoying, every day I see Euchred (and BOS) on my rival list.

Both guys are good peoples, so I got no reason to attack them, this means every time I see their names I have to fight the desire to rob them, knowing I could grab 30K plus R for every hit.

Very very annoying :P

+1!characters

Euchred
09-12-2012, 04:48 AM
Lol! You guys know I'd still love you if you did attack me. But if you did then Lupo might have to find a new source of revenue for the Indians beer and whiskey fund :p

_dan_
09-12-2012, 05:25 AM
Lol! You guys know I'd still love you if you did attack me. But if you did then Lupo might have to find a new source of revenue for the Indians beer and whiskey fund :p

So your hood is robbed frequently by people, huh ? Thought I read your signature you have not been robbed by anyone. Want a lesson how not to be robbed/attacked ?

Euchred
09-12-2012, 05:30 AM
So your hood is robbed frequently by people, huh ? Thought I read your signature you have not been robbed by anyone. Want a lesson how not to be robbed/attacked ?

Robbed and attacked are two different things. And I'm not prepared to take the measures that not getting attacked would require. I think if you asked anyone of my rivals they'd say I'm very difficult to rob.

kitzune
09-12-2012, 05:52 AM
Good post.

for attacks on you, does your stamina have any effect on how many times someone else can attack you? IE someone with 30 stamina could be attacked 30 times versus the person who stuck all of his skill points in attack and defense and still has only 5 stamina

Euchred
09-12-2012, 06:09 AM
Good post.

for attacks on you, does your stamina have any effect on how many times someone else can attack you? IE someone with 30 stamina could be attacked 30 times versus the person who stuck all of his skill points in attack and defense and still has only 5 stamina

As stated it's a fixed number you can only be attacked 10 times every 2 hours.

BOS
09-12-2012, 06:14 AM
Lol! You guys know I'd still love you if you did attack me. But if you did then Lupo might have to find a new source of revenue for the Indians beer and whiskey fund :p

Seriously, dudeman and burn, hit me up too! We will make a game out of it.... see who gets to the no-bankers first! My $ is on Lupo ;p

white frog
09-12-2012, 06:51 AM
I'm level 47 and have been no-banking for quite a while. I'm fairly safe at me level with just under 14k defense (11,876 effective rob defense and 11,224 effective att. defense). Until recently, it had been about 4 months since someone got through my defense!

_dan_
09-12-2012, 06:57 AM
ha, while many people appreciate "the guide", I know there are some of us laugh at the lousy no-banking guide with losing money to other people.

Admaz
09-12-2012, 07:07 AM
Thnx for the tip on collecting. I could never work out how I was getting robbed when I had collected all my rents. I will try ur tips and see how it turns out.

Euchred
09-12-2012, 07:38 AM
ha, while many people appreciate "the guide", I know there are some of us laugh at the lousy no-banking guide with losing money to other people.

Like I said it's not for everyone if people think I'm stupid for doing it I don't mind. I spend most of my days feeling stupid anyway. It's just how I choose to play, I like giving the money away to people. Beats giving it to the bank, sometimes I get fun little comments about it too just another way to stay connected.

Fig O Ni
09-12-2012, 07:43 AM
No banking is fun, but the magic IPH is $3,600,000 after that no banking don't make any sense as it be your loss.

So OP sorry if you mentioned it before but what your IPH now.

Euchred
09-12-2012, 08:16 AM
My IPH will break 4 million tomorrow, would love to hear why it doesn't make sense to no bank after 3.6 million.

murf
09-12-2012, 08:23 AM
ha, while many people appreciate "the guide", I know there are some of us laugh at the lousy no-banking guide with losing money to other people.

So, you are saying that you don't want more money, if it means that other people have more also....

This is a classic behavioral economic problem. Studies time and time again, find that people don't want to be better off in general, they just want to do better then their neighbor., even if that means everyone being worse off.... Insanity.

murf
09-12-2012, 08:26 AM
Very very annoying, every day I see Euchred (and BOS) on my rival list.

Both guys are good peoples, so I got no reason to attack them, this means every time I see their names I have to fight the desire to rob them, knowing I could grab 30K plus R for every hit.

Very very annoying :P

I get over this fact by thinking it's better if I get the 30k + RP then some other d-bag that we all hate :)

Daniel2115
09-12-2012, 09:47 AM
No banking is fun, but the magic IPH is $3,600,000 after that no banking don't make any sense as it be your loss.

So OP sorry if you mentioned it before but what your IPH now.

How does that make any sense lol. Once you get your income high enough the bank will start taking more money than people could get from attacking you

Fig O Ni
09-12-2012, 09:58 AM
My IPH will break 4 million tomorrow, would love to hear why it doesn't make sense to no bank after 3.6 million.

In 24h you can get attacked max 10 times every 2h which makes a grand total of 120 times.
120 x $30,0000 = $3,600,000

If you managed to collect in time once earning over $3.6m you would be banking $86mil+ so you would be giving the bank over $8million a day unless you was lucky enough to be in possession of the emerald burner.

Euchred
09-12-2012, 11:03 AM
So even after making 3.6 million its still worth it to not bank. I'm kinda confused where you're going with this. How is it my loss?

SevenO9
09-12-2012, 11:05 AM
just remove all the 'no' in figs statement and it makes perfect sense

i am sure he wanted to say that banking makes no sense after that threshold

Euchred
09-12-2012, 11:12 AM
Ya maybe but why isn't it worth it at 2 million an hour? You're still making more than you would be by banking it.

SevenO9
09-12-2012, 11:23 AM
Let me try my math skills (uh)

Max. amount taken by attacks per hour: 10 x 30k / 2 = 150k
Amount you have to bank to be on break even: 150k x 10 = 1.5 million

So imho it is neither 2 nor 3.6 but 1.5 million.

QED

BOS
09-12-2012, 11:25 AM
Let me try my math skills (uh)

Max. amount taken by attacks per hour: 10 x 30k / 2 = 150k
Amount you have to bank to be on break even: 150k x 10 = 1.5 million

So imho it is neither 2 nor 3.6 but 1.5 million.

QED

That was explained in the OP.

SevenO9
09-12-2012, 11:30 AM
I know that you know that we know that Euchred got it right from the beginning. I was merely trying to counter Fig.

BOS
09-12-2012, 11:32 AM
I know that you know that we know that Euchred got it right from the beginning. I was merely trying to counter Fig.

Lol, thanks for clearing that up :p

_dan_
09-12-2012, 03:30 PM
So, you are saying that you don't want more money, if it means that other people have more also....

This is a classic behavioral economic problem. Studies time and time again, find that people don't want to be better off in general, they just want to do better then their neighbor., even if that means everyone being worse off.... Insanity.

nah, not like that kid, only go no-banking when no one can take $1 from you. People who can do that laugh at any lousy no-banking guides like this.

Euchred
09-12-2012, 03:37 PM
nah, not like that kid, only go no-banking when no one can take $1 from you. People who can do that laugh at any lousy no-banking guides like this.

I never said it was a guide, I don't expect anyone else to do this after reading it. Just relaying my experience because people were curious.

erik
09-12-2012, 08:21 PM
nah, not like that kid, only go no-banking when no one can take $1 from you. People who can do that laugh at any lousy no-banking guides like this.

You know who isn't laughing... your high school math teacher.

...

I like seeing guides for the forum from the first legit player to have 1B on hand, and first to an 8 NC.

_dan_
09-12-2012, 08:31 PM
You know who isn't laughing... your high school math teacher.

...

I like seeing guides for the forum from the first legit player to have 1B on hand, and first to an 8 NC.

No-banking and get robbed by people, seriously ??? What a joke!

Not sure what kind of guy who feel happy when someone took money from him, who ? You ?

NotHappyatU
09-12-2012, 08:33 PM
nah, not like that kid, only go no-banking when no one can take $1 from you. People who can do that laugh at any lousy no-banking guides like this.

Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha...hA...ha

mxz
09-12-2012, 09:00 PM
No-banking and get robbed by people, seriously ??? What a joke!

Not sure what kind of guy who feel happy when someone took money from him, who ? You ?Is it better lose $150,000 to a fellow player or $300,000 to the abyss?

Polarbear
09-12-2012, 09:06 PM
Is it better lose $150,000 to a fellow player or $300,000 to the abyss?

True, but if you factor in explosive costs, annoyance and a horrible win/loss ratio sometimes it's better to bank.

Strategically I'd also rather lose money to a cash sink rather than letting others use it to get stronger.

mxz
09-12-2012, 09:08 PM
True, but if you factor in explosive costs, annoyance and a horrible win/loss ratio sometimes it's better to bank.

Strategically I'd also rather lose money to a cash sink rather than letting others use it to get stronger.At what point does that curve switch? Sure, I understand an emotional response; but those that no-bank are (normally) fundamentally analytical and less prone to emotional bias.

Polarbear
09-12-2012, 09:17 PM
Well considering if you're decked out with landmines @ 150k a pop, the average loss for me is 1.5 explosives per attack which is enough to turn the tables for me.

+ You don't get smack talkers gloating all over your wall.

Euchred
09-12-2012, 09:25 PM
@ Polarbear you and I are definitely playing two very different styles.

I just want reiterate that I wrote this with the shark pool in mind I've been in it since level 140. Also my intent wasn't to try and get people to stop banking. I'm just a low stat player trying to earn a few extra bucks at the cost of stats I couldn't care less about.

_dan_
09-12-2012, 09:33 PM
Is it better lose $150,000 to a fellow player or $300,000 to the abyss?

Sometimes my victims attack me not because of the amount of money they lost, just because they hate me while I keep attack/rob them. To many people, it's really painful when reading red news daily.

If your defense is low, better not keeping too much money on hand, that just lure people searching for you and that's very annoying when log in just to see a list of red news from same people again & again.

Polarbear
09-12-2012, 10:16 PM
Of course there is no "right" way to play.

Like my tactic is to gobsmack rivals with decorations to the extent they post instead of attack =D

My stats are also mediocre, but if I get hit, I will always attack back. Thus in my situation, where a link has been given, banking is needed to bleed the other of explosives.

murf
09-13-2012, 07:31 AM
nah, not like that kid, only go no-banking when no one can take $1 from you. People who can do that laugh at any lousy no-banking guides like this.

I don't understand why you care about other people...giving it to the bank or other people is the same to me, I don't have it anymore, I don't care who took it...you will have MORE money from no-banking. I agree with Euchred that if you're goal is to take in the mostmoney, then no-banking is the only option (except if you buy defensive explosives)

murf
09-13-2012, 07:34 AM
No-banking and get robbed by people, seriously ??? What a joke!

Not sure what kind of guy who feel happy when someone took money from him, who ? You ?

I'm the kind of guy, that at the end of the day wants more money in my pocket...Let's see my choices:

I earn $50,000,000 / day

1) I have 46,400,000 in my pocket (giving 3,600,000 to other people)
2) I have 45,000,000 in my pocket (giving 5,000,000 to the bank)

I want to have more money, so I choose #1

BOS
09-13-2012, 07:44 AM
I love it when players attack me, go win/loss for the 10 hits (they got 300,000k), and when checking their inventory see sarin's. Mental victory for me ;)

_dan_
09-13-2012, 09:54 AM
I know some guys have thick face which can take other's punches and still smile. It's really really hard for me to explain to them what shame mean.

BOS
09-13-2012, 10:36 AM
I know some guys have thick face which can take other's punches and still smile. It's really really hard for me to explain to them what shame mean.

What's your in-game name, level and mafia count? Hopefully in the shark tank, so you can take my punches and I can smile :D

_dan_
09-13-2012, 10:52 AM
level 171 and level up 1/2 day, shark tank ? , ha, amateur! My news list got some green news, 2 days old.

SevenO9
09-13-2012, 11:08 AM
he clearly asked for your ingame name. you talked a lot, now back it up

BOS
09-13-2012, 11:16 AM
What's your in-game name, level and mafia count? Hopefully in the shark tank, so you can take my punches and I can smile :D


level 171 and level up 1/2 day, shark tank ? , ha, amateur! My news list got some green news, 2 days old.


he clearly asked for your ingame name. you talked a lot, now back it up

*Crickets* *pin drop*

BOS
09-13-2012, 06:29 PM
Since _dan_ would rather hide behind his words on the forum, and not reveal his in-game info, does anyone else know? Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

_dan_
09-13-2012, 07:04 PM
ha, lousy people! Search for forum post or my posts. I stated my in-game name in there. After that, search for that person in-game.

Polarbear
09-13-2012, 07:39 PM
I'll save you the trouble, wasn't it like 'suxxxyou' or something?

_dan_
09-13-2012, 07:48 PM
ha, I like play game with him, like throwing a bone for him to find it. anyway, it suxxx. That's another bone, now find it ''bos'.

BOS
09-13-2012, 08:09 PM
😃
ha, I like play game with him, like throwing a bone for him to find it. anyway, it suxxx. That's another bone, now find it ''bos'.

That suxxx, you didn't share the # of mafia you have? Let me know

_dan_
09-13-2012, 08:15 PM
I think that enough bone for you to find. Now find it, good boy!

steamboatwilly
09-13-2012, 08:25 PM
lucky enough to be in possession of the emerald burner.
Wasnt there an option at some point when you upgraded to goodfella to get an extra 10% off your collections?

I have that bonus, but i dont have the emerald burner.
Just the diamond sig and the pathmaker.