Expensive Upgrades: A strategy

[Dewsy]

Firstly I know this is a relatively long post, so I appreciate the time anyone takes to read it (and reply ;) )!
I know this topic has been talked about considerably recently and so this thread isn't so much as a new idea but more me sharing my thoughts and experiences so far which hopefully at least one person will find useful! I also have a question or two and was hoping others would be able to help using their experience.

Primarily I'm concerned with the Breeding Den upgrades. Upgrading to level 7 as I type, so with my level 8 lumber mill I will need:

Level 8 = 634,800
Level 9 = 1,058,000
Level 10 = 1,748,000

Other upgrades which are 330k+ which I will be considering in the near future for which I will use this strategy are:

Level 2 and 3 Manors = 386,400/644,000
Gold Mine level 7/8 = 538,200/897,000

If I sync all my buildings the maximum payout I can get is 122k in one go.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/Babyhamster8/ScreenShot2012-08-14at151139-1.jpg
This next bit is what I would appreciate some help with. I want to find out the maximum amount of gold I can get from one energy bar (1,070 energy) by leaving one-hit kills. I have found the following below but would appreciate if anyone could have a look and see if there are other high payout monsters which I haven't got on my list which I based purely on what monsters I have spawned at the moment. Thanks!
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/Babyhamster8/ScreenShot2012-08-13at194309-1.png

This can get me to 546k gold (330+122+94) without having any gold unvaulted for any significant time, but this is still far lower than the level 9/10 Den upgrades. The obvious thing to do would be to sell both manors which will give me another 250k and I guess I could upgrade them both to level 2 to give me more, but this is a last resort and it seems silly to lose the 50% value.

The second question I have is regarding allies. At the moment I'm level 98 with 490 allies (max). I can see down as low as 298 allies so I would have thought I would have to fall to around 250 to fall off the radars of the higher ally players but I wondered if anyone around my level has experience of having that amount of allies and whether they think it is worth doing?

[Hobtuse]

@Dewsy:

1) In terms of syncing collection times, you should only consider those with a considerable time for collection (i.e they take maybe 6 hours or more for collection), the rest you would always collect whenever possible right?

--> You might want to consider upgrading manors and lenders too but your IPH is already at a sweet level already. :)

2) As for ally level, I would say that just avoid being at 500 allies to get out of the CR quest levels. If you do want to cut allies to a low level, you would have to go to the low 100s since I can still see all the way to 200 allies at my level.

3) For your monsters enemies list, I would advise the following:
Kraken's Eye
Ancient Magician
Primal King
Bone Lord

and fill up the rest with Mutated Horrors, they give you since more than 1 can spawn at any given time. they give the most gold per energy after those 4 units. the bosses in the 4 new maps do not compare well to the Mutated Horrors.

if not, then Dragon Apparition, Boreas are good too. You also need to make concession as at times, you can't really estimate if you got the boss down to 1 hit or 1 hit +, so for preparing the high payout monsters, I cap at 90% of my total energy bar to have enough to deal them more than 1 hit.

The Primal Sorceror too will not spawn after you kill it for the 2nd time.

[Kiss Of Death]

Nice work, good thread.

The one hit kills really relies on
(a) your hero strength if its low you will need far more hits.
(b) Map Level. A useful tool would be to record the damage it takes to kill that monster for that level. It seems payouts and exp. go up exactly 3% per map level increase so I assume monster health goes up 3% as well. That should help you predict forwards on each map you have as to where you will be as each map level increases from your PvE
(c) your best weapon and armour attack values... these increase your attack value... also the higher their defense values are the more likely when a creature hits back it misses thus leaving you more energy. If you factor in the damage they do back (fixed amount) to the cost of each hit other than death hit then you know the max energy cost it may take to kill that monster.

Example. I am same level as you and have
Hero Strength 122
Weapon (Kraken's Eye) 30/20
Armour (Delightful Garb) 18/34

Looking at say Dwavern Mine the Mine Gnat takes 2 hits at 42 energy and sometimes hits me for 12, so max energy is 84 or 96 (level 3 map). It has 185 damage it can take and I do an average 109-122. It pays out just over 1440 gold so that's 15-17 gold per energy for me. and so on. I can make a spreadsheet up over the next few nights for maps you are interested in and google doc it in our FK group? I have already done that for a few maps. I have completed 14 maps to level 5 so far and most others are on 2 or 3 now except the last map I haven't started.

Oh and saving that much money... it'd be easier to sell off every single cash IPH and def building you have in one big fat go to do upgrade and then rebuild your empire or... risk being raided to hell and back. Alternatively MAX out on the highest def unit you can and MAKE sure the boost building for that class is at 10! Then sit and pray and collect and pve like mad!

[John Snow]

A couple of months ago Freekizh experimented with dramatic changes in his ally count to see if it affected how frequently he was successfully attacked. He wrote that at lower ally counts he was exposed to people who had 10 to 100 more allies than he did. Even though he had really high A/D densities, it didn't overcome the superior ally numbers. I think his conclusion was that you'll be a target at whatever ally count you're at if you have a lot of unvaulted cash.

[Dewsy]

Thanks everyone who took the time to reply, appreciate it :)


@Dewsy:

1) In terms of syncing collection times, you should only consider those with a considerable time for collection (i.e they take maybe 6 hours or more for collection), the rest you would always collect whenever possible right?

--> You might want to consider upgrading manors and lenders too but your IPH is already at a sweet level already. :)

2) As for ally level, I would say that just avoid being at 500 allies to get out of the CR quest levels. If you do want to cut allies to a low level, you would have to go to the low 100s since I can still see all the way to 200 allies at my level.

3) For your monsters enemies list, I would advise the following:
Kraken's Eye
Ancient Magician
Primal King
Bone Lord

and fill up the rest with Mutated Horrors, they give you since more than 1 can spawn at any given time. they give the most gold per energy after those 4 units. the bosses in the 4 new maps do not compare well to the Mutated Horrors.

if not, then Dragon Apparition, Boreas are good too. You also need to make concession as at times, you can't really estimate if you got the boss down to 1 hit or 1 hit +, so for preparing the high payout monsters, I cap at 90% of my total energy bar to have enough to deal them more than 1 hit.

The Primal Sorceror too will not spawn after you kill it for the 2nd time.

1) Yep agreed, I was just considering what the maximum amount I could collect in one time would be when I made the table.

2) Ok thanks, I think I will probably stick to 499 when I level up to 100. Dropped the best part of 400 allies would take a long time anyway haha.

3) Again thanks, when I was farming for gold I did notice that the mutated horrors were the best option.



Nice work, good thread.

The one hit kills really relies on
(a) your hero strength if its low you will need far more hits.
(b) Map Level. A useful tool would be to record the damage it takes to kill that monster for that level. It seems payouts and exp. go up exactly 3% per map level increase so I assume monster health goes up 3% as well. That should help you predict forwards on each map you have as to where you will be as each map level increases from your PvE
(c) your best weapon and armour attack values... these increase your attack value... also the higher their defense values are the more likely when a creature hits back it misses thus leaving you more energy. If you factor in the damage they do back (fixed amount) to the cost of each hit other than death hit then you know the max energy cost it may take to kill that monster.

Example. I am same level as you and have
Hero Strength 122
Weapon (Kraken's Eye) 30/20
Armour (Delightful Garb) 18/34

Looking at say Dwavern Mine the Mine Gnat takes 2 hits at 42 energy and sometimes hits me for 12, so max energy is 84 or 96 (level 3 map). It has 185 damage it can take and I do an average 109-122. It pays out just over 1440 gold so that's 15-17 gold per energy for me. and so on. I can make a spreadsheet up over the next few nights for maps you are interested in and google doc it in our FK group? I have already done that for a few maps. I have completed 14 maps to level 5 so far and most others are on 2 or 3 now except the last map I haven't started.

Oh and saving that much money... it'd be easier to sell off every single cash IPH and def building you have in one big fat go to do upgrade and then rebuild your empire or... risk being raided to hell and back. Alternatively MAX out on the highest def unit you can and MAKE sure the boost building for that class is at 10! Then sit and pray and collect and pve like mad!

That would be interesting (and useful) to have those spreadsheets KoD. Let me know how I can help collecting some data otherwise it will take you serious time to do it all on your own!

I have similar stats to you regarding hero strength/attack values:
124 Hero Strength
34/25 Point of Faith
18/35 Glory of the Thief

Haha I know it does seem like getting the high amounts of gold needed is mission impossible. If I'm going to spend any more real money on KA I think I would spend it to get the level 10 breeding den upgrade.At the moment the Mountain of Gold would give me 1,312,443 and whereas 1,500 gems would get me a handful of crates with maybe 1000-1500+ att/def, level 10 BD has the potential to get 1500 dragons which is obviously a lot higher stats, particularly if I wait for a sale I think that could be money well spent.



A couple of months ago Freekizh experimented with dramatic changes in his ally count to see if it affected how frequently he was successfully attacked. He wrote that at lower ally counts he was exposed to people who had 10 to 100 more allies than he did. Even though he had really high A/D densities, it didn't overcome the superior ally numbers. I think his conclusion was that you'll be a target at whatever ally count you're at if you have a lot of unvaulted cash.

Ok thanks, I think I will probably stick to higher levels and try to boost my def up as much as possible.

[Everson25]

A couple of months ago Freekizh experimented with dramatic changes in his ally count to see if it affected how frequently he was successfully attacked. He wrote that at lower ally counts he was exposed to people who had 10 to 100 more allies than he did. Even though he had really high A/D densities, it didn't overcome the superior ally numbers. I think his conclusion was that you'll be a target at whatever ally count you're at if you have a lot of unvaulted cash.Just confirming the observation above, I'm with 136 allies and I see rivals up to 220 allies easily. My stats is good so I've been strong enough to keep me safe but sometimes I feel the gap is quite high. I really don't know if I can be safe as a free player for too long.

[Funkey monkey]

A couple of months ago Freekizh experimented with dramatic changes in his ally count to see if it affected how frequently he was successfully attacked. He wrote that at lower ally counts he was exposed to people who had 10 to 100 more allies than he did. Even though he had really high A/D densities, it didn't overcome the superior ally numbers. I think his conclusion was that you'll be a target at whatever ally count you're at if you have a lot of unvaulted cash.

Freekizh still plays KA but he hasn't commented on the forum in several months. Here is the post you reference: http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?36328-Attacked-by-MUCH-higher-level-players-how&p=295652&viewfull=1#post295652

Freekizh was a little unorthodox in that he would experiment even by purposely loosing a battle in order to understand the casuality rates. You can learn a lot by reading his posts. However, I don't think you will find one to help obtain the level 10 breeding den. I remember one experiment where he intentionally used low units with high armor and weapons. I learned a lot from him.

Dewsy what is the lowest level you can see? One idea that hasn't been vetted is to wait for the Shark/Whale line to be higher than you are currently.

[Dewsy]

Dewsy what is the lowest level you can see? One idea that hasn't been vetted is to wait for the Shark/Whale line to be higher than you are currently.

I only see to level 96, but down to around 280 allies (from my 490). I have stopped PVE'ing to slow down my levelling, hopefully meaning than more higher A/D players than myself will pass by me. I actually think I'm out the whale zone at the moment. I have only been raided a few times in the past week and it was all by one person and we are now allies, so hopefully if I stay at 98 I should be ok :)

Currently going for level 8 at the moment, haven't been attacked yet - fingers crossed!

[Njwmrb]

I only see to level 96, but down to around 280 allies (from my 490). I have stopped PVE'ing to slow down my levelling, hopefully meaning than more higher A/D players than myself will pass by me. I actually think I'm out the whale zone at the moment. I have only been raided a few times in the past week and it was all by one person and we are now allies, so hopefully if I stay at 98 I should be ok :)

Currently going for level 8 at the moment, up to 467k and haven't been attacked yet - fingers crossed!

So is 98 the boarder of whale area right now? If so I'm still pretty safe for a while

[Dewsy]

So is 98 the boarder of whale area right now? If so I'm still pretty safe for a while

I don't know for certain but I expect it is a little higher as I haven't been attacked by a whale for a while now and I've really slowed my levelling down.

[asdfg12345]

I don't know for certain but I expect it is a little higher as I haven't been attacked by a whale for a while now and I've really slowed my levelling down.wow, i didnt expect the cut off line is so high now. I guess I can just camp for two weeks and I will be out of whale zone!

[The_Red]

wow, i didnt expect the cut off line is so high now. I guess I can just camp for two weeks and I will be out of whale zone!


Theres a large group of people going through the 100-110 range right now, which limits the high level players (>130) from seeing into the double digits. IMHO.

[Dewsy]

Theres a large group of people going through the 100-110 range right now, which limits the high level players (>130) from seeing into the double digits. IMHO.

Perfect for me sat at 98 :D

[Dewsy]

Got to level 8 :) Going to concentrate on upgrading high output buildings to make getting level 9/10 BD a little easier. Going for both manors to level 3, both gold mines from 6 to level 7 and then possibly the lenders as well.

[Doc Rumpies]

I would think the obvious first step would be to get your lumber mill to level 10, it will only take you another 210k or so and 4 days, well worth it in the long run. I did that before even upgrading m gold mines past level 3. That extra 2% really adds up

[emcee]

Level 10 lumber mill is the route to go.
Just finished 2nd merchant caravan to level 10 which was a significant savings.

Regarding alliance count, attacks and unvaulted gold; close to 0 alliance should do the trick. Not sure how it works at high levels.

3.43 million unbanked gold and counting on level 12 account and 1.45 mil on level 30 account.

[hellhound604]

I am sorry to butt in here, and put a question here, but for me as a half-beginner, and not having enough posts to start a new thread, I have question about very expensive upgrade (for me) ....

After expanding and expanding my empire, finally I saved enough money to start expanding into the sea to buy a shipyard ..... But now, after days of waiting to have half of a new expansion ocean, and half ground, and saving up to build a shipyard, I still can't...

What are the criteria of building a shipyard? How much land and how much ocean do you need? I would rather now use the money I saved up to expand on the ground, where I know I can build stuff, than wasting more time and money on getting another ocean-view, only to find out after days of waiting that I can't build a shipyard there either......

[The_Red]

I am sorry to butt in here, and put a question here, but for me as a half-beginner, and not having enough posts to start a new thread, I have question about very expensive upgrade (for me) ....

After expanding and expanding my empire, finally I saved enough money to start expanding into the sea to buy a shipyard ..... But now, after days of waiting to have half of a new expansion ocean, and half ground, and saving up to build a shipyard, I still can't...

What are the criteria of building a shipyard? How much land and how much ocean do you need? I would rather now use the money I saved up to expand on the ground, where I know I can build stuff, than wasting more time and money on getting another ocean-view, only to find out after days of waiting that I can't build a shipyard there either......

look @ where others have placed their shipyards and mimic htat.

There is also a bug related to where the shipyard is placed... depending on the direction you
start moving the shipyard along the 50/50 you can get different legal placements vs other
directions. Ive seen that a couple of times.

[DIrishB]

Yeah, the placement of the shipyard is tricky. Try to do it on a long enough expanse of straight coastline, if there's a small corner on the coast it probably won't work.

[Dr. Dengus]

Dewsy, if it gets to the point where you are considering selling Manors to afford the BD upgrades (and you are not in whale territory), I'd just experiment with your ally count. It's the only real way to tell, and ally's are easy to come by if you decide to increase your amount again. If you can see down to 280 allies right now, you might try dropping down to ~230-250 and see who can attack you there. If you don't feel safe, try dropping in increments of 10 or 15 until you can find a sweet spot. If you have a very high unit density, and can find a so-called sweet spot with your ally count at your level, you'll have no problem saving over-vault. I do see you are level 98, but I can say this strategy works for me in the 70's. Not entirely sure what the rivals list is like 20+ levels above me though. .