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Mad
08-06-2012, 12:57 PM
I know there has been lots of discussion surrounding the defense buildings and whether they actually add any value to their defense. I know when I build them and upgrade them my defense value goes up accordingly.

For example, I upgraded my Sam from level 1 to level 2 and my Sam's defense increased from 15 to 23. And that increase showed up in my overall defense score. This is more valuable than buying a unit as that additional defense does not fall off as I get better and better units. It is always there.

Now I am not sure if the Sam's increase is % based or just goes up by 8, but if it just goes up by 8 by level 10 the Sam would have a defense of 87. that is a decent addition to your defense. And essentially that is poor man's gold unit, since it can't actually be destroyed.

A couple questions:

Has anyone increased their Sam to higher levels and what is their defensive score? (Does it just go up by 8?)

Have you noticed your overall defensive score increase as you level up your Sams?

Now I realize gold armies pummel through defensive buildings, but they seem to help against everyone else. They seem to increase your overall defensive score against attacks and during raids specifically help buildings within their defensive barrier.

I have also noticed from experience that my unit losses increase if I attack buildings being protected by defensive units.

As a side note, this might be something MW could incorporate for their gold units -- though they can't be destroyed, they could be damaged.

Mcdoc
08-06-2012, 01:23 PM
Each time you upgrade a defense unit - your overal defense goes up as well. I used this in CC to dramatically boost met defense - I will work on my defense buildings in MW someday - but in the meantime - my 215 skill points to defense has really given me more protection than anything else (plus a level 10 composite factory). I get guys with 30,000 more raw attack than my boosted defense and they still lose the battle.

Also remember, your boosted defense from composite bldg & nation boosts and other boost buildings are only visible to you - your Defence stats added by your defense buildings should be added to your raw score that everyone else sees.

Mad
08-06-2012, 01:31 PM
Each time you upgrade a defense unit - your overal defense goes up as well. I used this in CC to dramatically boost met defense - I will work on my defense buildings in MW someday - but in the meantime - my 215 skill points to defense has really given me more protection than anything else (plus a level 10 composite factory). I get guys with 30,000 more raw attack than my boosted defense and they still lose the battle.

Also remember, your boosted defense from composite bldg & nation boosts and other boost buildings are only visible to you - your Defence stats added by your defense buildings should be added to your raw score that everyone else sees.

Good advice. I was increasing my defense skills for a while, then started diverting the points to other areas. Will definitely refocus on defense.

What level are you by the way? You have such high defensive skill points. I am thinking once I cross the 100 level barrier, it might be a good time to upgrade my defensive buildings.

Hellstorm
08-06-2012, 01:45 PM
Lots of skill points on the defensive side mcdog. Do you have a clue how they actually work? There have been speculations but it seems nobody really knows. I have 143 skill points set on def, but never really paid attention on the actually efficiency of them. Good to see that somebody has seen a difference, a big one too.

SeqWins
08-06-2012, 02:00 PM
I'm LVL 40 with 112 defensive skill points and haven't lost a battle to an attack in a long time.

Lt. Falcon
08-06-2012, 02:31 PM
I'm LVL 40 with 112 defensive skill points and haven't lost a battle to an attack in a long time.

did you put all of your skill points to defense as 39 level increases * 3 skill points per level is 117, I can't remember how many skill points your def was set at in the beginning, but 112 means almost all your skill points went to defense?

Jp lfs
08-06-2012, 02:44 PM
Mad, I'm not sure if it is the way you phrased it or just the use of "poor man's gold unit", but this post made me really stop to think. I feel like this is a very fresh perspective on an old idea.

As I buy new units, I am pushing other ones out of my army, so I never see their full stats, just the difference between the new and the old. For example, an Aircraft Carrier only increases my defense by 20 points, but upgrading a defensive building will raise my defense by the entire amount of the upgrade.

The only downside I see is the time spent on these upgrades vs. money and boost buildings. Upgrading a SAM from level 1-2 only takes 8 hours, but upgrading a minefield or a Railgun takes days, I believe, even for the first upgrade. I can only imagine how long it would take to bring a Railgun to Level 10, let alone the price. But if it increased my defense by 500+ points, directly and permanently, it might be worth it.

This one is really turning my gears, so thank you for a thought-provoking post.

Hassleham
08-06-2012, 02:48 PM
Mad, I'm not sure if it is the way you phrased it or just the use of "poor man's gold unit", but this post made me really stop to think. I feel like this is a very fresh perspective on an old idea.

As I buy new units, I am pushing other ones out of my army, so I never see their full stats, just the difference between the new and the old. For example, an Aircraft Carrier only increases my defense by 20 points, but upgrading a defensive building will raise my defense by the entire amount of the upgrade.

The only downside I see is the time spent on these upgrades vs. money and boost buildings. Upgrading a SAM from level 1-2 only takes 8 hours, but upgrading a minefield or a Railgun takes days, I believe, even for the first upgrade. I can only imagine how long it would take to bring a Railgun to Level 10, let alone the price. But if it increased my defense by 500+ points, directly and permanently, it might be worth it.

This one is really turning my gears, so thank you for a thought-provoking post.

That's what i was thinking. The only way i'd consider upgrading defence buildings would be if i could see a table of numbers first (like WPs no hassle spreadsheet).
Once i get all money buildings built i will expand my base enough to fit 5 of each defence building in and see if that makes much of a difference.

Jp lfs
08-06-2012, 02:54 PM
That's what i was thinking. The only way i'd consider upgrading defence buildings would be if i could see a table of numbers first (like WPs no hassle spreadsheet).
Once i get all money buildings built i will expand my base enough to fit 5 of each defence building in and see if that makes much of a difference.

I would love to see a breakdown of the defensive building upgrades as well. I don't believe those are on the original spreadsheets, but I'm going to try to hunt them down now. I have seen a few Lvl 5+ Railgun's and EMP's on bases, but they are usually players who don't need them for defense anymore anyways.

Q Raider
08-06-2012, 02:57 PM
For the lower upgrades the increase is around 50% each time.

Not sure if that continues for all levels but if so, then level 10's would be providing some decent assistance to your overall figures.

Arizona
08-06-2012, 03:08 PM
In the earlier levels I never bought any defence buildings as I thought they were useless, and read comments on here to that effect. Later on I made my own decision to buy only the better ones like the Rail Gun. First thing I noticed is it added 75 to my defence score, and will remains indestructible.

I've got a couple of SAM's but to be honest I added them to add a little colour to my base; a RED/WHITE building! Can't tell you how much they increase in value per level, but I can tell you a Rail Gun levelled up to 2 gives 113 defensive points and costs 10m, taking 84 hours. Extrapolate from there and you can see how time consuming and expensive these "gold units" are. In my opinion they are worth it though if you have the patience. Also think you are limited to 5 buildings.

Can anyone confirm the defensive buildings only level up to 5. It's something I remember being mentioned a while ago.

p.s. The 84 hour upgrade time is without any boost. So don't you wish you won this latest unit to reduce your upgrade times? Did anyone ever win two of these? I got the first one, but not the second.

Hassleham
08-06-2012, 03:12 PM
I would love to see a breakdown of the defensive building upgrades as well. I don't believe those are on the original spreadsheets, but I'm going to try to hunt them down now. I have seen a few Lvl 5+ Railgun's and EMP's on bases, but they are usually players who don't need them for defense anymore anyways.

Sounds like this should be the next forumite project. If we got a few volunteers to each level up one of the defence buildings and take down the numbers, we could build a spreadsheet pretty quick. As well as buildings people already have.

Hassleham
08-06-2012, 03:14 PM
Can anyone confirm the defensive buildings only level up to 5. It's something I remember being mentioned a while ago.



I'm sure i've seen a pic of a level 10 rail gun though..

Mad
08-06-2012, 03:17 PM
For the lower upgrades the increase is around 50% each time.

Not sure if that continues for all levels but if so, then level 10's would be providing some decent assistance to your overall figures.

Man if this is a percentage increase, these defensive buildings would be powerhouses. I upgraded a lowly ole bunker from level one to two and increased the def from 5 to 8. If continued to increase by 50% each level, it would have in excess of 200 defense by level 10. That would match many high level gold units. Or maybe they don't level up to ten as mentioned in an earlier post.

Has anyone upgraded their defensive buildings?

Arizona
08-06-2012, 03:25 PM
Sounds like this should be the next forumite project. If we got a few volunteers to each level up one of the defence buildings and take down the numbers, we could build a spreadsheet pretty quick. As well as buildings people already have.
I keep a spreadsheet of the better defensive buildings. None are levelled up yet though. The only info I have was when my rail Gun completed and I noted down the L2 data.
Good idea though if people send in data on upgrades, I'd keep a tab on it all.

Hassleham
08-06-2012, 03:26 PM
I keep a spreadsheet of the better defensive buildings. None are levelled up yet though. The only info I have was when my rail Gun completed and I noted down the L2 data.
Good idea though if people send in data on upgrades, I'd keep a tab on it all.

Do you want to make a thread about it? Try and get some people helping out?
I would do it but i'm too tired to write a decent paragraph with good English :p

Jp lfs
08-06-2012, 03:26 PM
Just surfed a couple bases and found a Level 6 EMP cannon. So they definitely go past 5.

Mad
08-06-2012, 04:20 PM
Ok here is a question. The Emp canon costs $200 gold. As a gold unit can it bedamaged? With a starting def of 125 and presuming it goes up 50% a crack, by level 10 it would have a Def of 4800.

Q Raider
08-06-2012, 04:25 PM
I know SpeedumP has some higher Level Defence buildings but he hasn't appeared in my rival list lately.

If spot him will ask if he can drop in here and let us know the figures for some of his leveled up ones.

I think it was his base which had level 10 EMP's.

Corsair
08-06-2012, 04:29 PM
This spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgF9WCGOoTEqdDY5QzBEamhCNmhVLTdZbkJCWEFFe UE#gid=3 has the D buildings in it, but very incomplete. Only shows them to level 5, doesn't include Railgun or EMP, etc. Might be more info in the plist files?

negotiator
08-06-2012, 04:38 PM
Ok here is a question. The Emp canon costs $200 gold. As a gold unit can it bedamaged? With a starting def of 125 and presuming it goes up 50% a crack, by level 10 it would have a Def of 4800.

I don't have the emp but I know you can take out a composite factory and it's a gold purchase

Mcdoc
08-06-2012, 04:51 PM
Good advice. I was increasing my defense skills for a while, then started diverting the points to other areas. Will definitely refocus on defense.What level are you by the way? You have such high defensive skill points. I am thinking once I cross the 100 level barrier, it might be a good time to upgrade my defensive buildings.I just hit level 153 - but when I was @ level 90 - I think I had about 50 points on Def & decided to beef it up for the "Shark Zone" and have added most of my points there since then. Definitely a hidden razor wire around your base :)

DVL505
08-06-2012, 05:03 PM
I am wondering if the increase in defensive stats are a little deceiving? It seems the range of the weapon is limited and only protects those areas in which it covers.

Jp lfs
08-06-2012, 05:08 PM
This spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgF9WCGOoTEqdDY5QzBEamhCNmhVLTdZbkJCWEFFe UE#gid=3 has the D buildings in it, but very incomplete. Only shows them to level 5, doesn't include Railgun or EMP, etc. Might be more info in the plist files?

Interesting. From the spreadsheet, it looks like the D buildings increase by a set number, rather than a percentage increase, although the times and costs increase the same way other building types do.

Q Raider
08-06-2012, 05:30 PM
Ok, can confirm an EMP of level 9 and I am sure I have seen a level 10 around. (They weren't in Speedump's base).

Also a Drone Flight Control Centre at Level 6 so expect it probably goes to ten as well.

BODA82
08-06-2012, 08:19 PM
I am wondering if the increase in defensive stats are a little deceiving? It seems the range of the weapon is limited and only protects those areas in which it covers.

I'd like to know this as well.

Mcdoc
08-06-2012, 08:32 PM
I am wondering if the increase in defensive stats are a little deceiving? It seems the range of the weapon is limited and only protects those areas in which it covers.

No one REALLY knows - BUT - it appears that it gives YOU a definite boost in overall defense and that it somehow either boosts the defense of EVERY Building inside the Blue Circle of defense or somehow makes it create more casualties for an attacker - or both.

It is the Overall Stat boost that is the real gem - but someone with 30k or 40k (or in the shark zone sometimes 100k) higher stats than you is not affected at all.

BODA82
08-06-2012, 08:53 PM
No one REALLY knows - BUT - it appears that it gives YOU a definite boost in overall defense and that it somehow either boosts the defense of EVERY Building inside the Blue Circle of defense or somehow makes it create more casualties for an attacker - or both.

It is the Overall Stat boost that is the real gem - but someone with 30k or 40k (or in the shark zone sometimes 100k) higher stats than you is not affected at all.

Good to know, thanks!

Tru Nuckles
08-06-2012, 09:25 PM
It would take $123,070,000 to upgrade a same from level 2 to 10. That number is from the modern war toolkit. The toolkit doesnt show the defense gain. Thats a lot of loot to drop on 1 defense building.