Adding Attack/Defense pts with new level skill points

[gamegurlsh]

i already have 2000 energy and 52 stamina. i would like to add more points to my attack/defense but when i add them, my score won't go up. why is that? i've added 5 pts and i still don't gain those attack/defense points...what gives? do you have that problem?

[War Priest]

You won't see them in your score. It's an invisible boost.

[Lordsloss]

You won't see them in your score. It's an invisible boost.I don't really see them working much. I have 3000 energy and 31 stamina. I have like 50 in defense and maybe 30 in attack, but I'm using it all for stamina now. I say just unload on energy and stamina.

[Hassleham]

I don't really see them working much. I have 3000 energy and 31 stamina. I have like 50 in defense and maybe 30 in attack, but I'm using it all for stamina now. I say just unload on energy and stamina.


That's because 30 attack points is pretty much nothing. I have 106 and I can raid people who's defence is 130/140% of my attack.

[Miner]

I don't really see them working much. I have 3000 energy and 31 stamina. I have like 50 in defense and maybe 30 in attack, but I'm using it all for stamina now. I say just unload on energy and stamina.

I respectfully disagree. Attack and Defense points can come in rather handy. See page 167 of the Forum Fight Night thread when selfproclaimed and I rumbled. My boosted attack scores were 4k higher than his boosted defense and I did not win the attack. He had 90 defense points compared to my 81 attack points.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?28509-Forum-Fight-Night!!!/page167

[Jp lfs]

I don't really see them working much. I have 3000 energy and 31 stamina. I have like 50 in defense and maybe 30 in attack, but I'm using it all for stamina now. I say just unload on energy and stamina.

I couldn't possibly disagree more. And I hope this doesn't get personal.

Your a/d skill pts are one of the least understood and underutilized aspect of this game. Proper distribution of these points can make you nearly invincible and may even lower your casualties. Every day there is a post about "How did I lose this fight?" Skill points have always been an "x-factor" in this game, and some of the best conversations I have ever had with other forum members have concerned this topic.

In short, without disclosing too many hard-learned secrets, they are there for a reason. Use them.

[Jp lfs]

I respectfully disagree. Attack and Defense points can come in rather handy. See page 167 of the Forum Fight Night thread when selfproclaimed and I rumbled. My boosted attack scores were 4k higher than his boosted defense and I did not win the attack. He had 90 defense points compared to my 81 attack points.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?28509-Forum-Fight-Night!!!/page167

This is a picture perfect example of how important they are. I hope Cope reads this post because we were discussing this topic a few days ago, and he was a little skeptical of our final conclusions on how they actually work.

[Selfproclaimed]

It's not to say , he lost everytime. He attacked again, and won. But I heard the way they work is it multiplies your chances of winning . So whereas , his first attack, worked in my favor , 2 nd , his, now if he kept going. Who knows. Maybe I'll have to sacrifice some units to find out?

[Miner]

He attacked again, and won.

Didn't think I attacked a 2nd time. I know I thought about it, but didn't think I did it. Sorry for the double-tap if I did! ;)

[Corsair]

Won't bother to repeat the good advice above, except to add that there is one place you can see them. Add a skill point to your attack, and your boss attack will go up. How much depends on "many factors" (I don't think anyone knows). But have seen this happen.

[Ryans67]

CCMark made a comment before about just how important they were. It was either in regards to casualties, or winning, and he gave an example. Someone has to remember? I am a big fan of the defensive points. Nothing is better then a guy losing battles that he should win. I attribute that to their lack of attack points versus my high defensive points.

As for energy, any amount that is in excess of the amount that will regenerate during your longest period away from the game is unnecessary. For me, thats about 6-7 hours worth.

[Lordsloss]

I never saw it as a big advantage, but I can actually start to just rack up on my defense I guess. I'll give it a shot then. I'm done on energy and my stamina seems ok right now.

[Jp lfs]

Won't bother to repeat the good advice above, except to add that there is one place you can see them. Add a skill point to your attack, and your boss attack will go up. How much depends on "many factors" (I don't think anyone knows). But have seen this happen.

I had no idea they came into play during that event. Great new piece of data to know. Thanks!!

[Zoltarov]

My attack and defence skill points are both exceeding my level. I have lost 1 attack in 3 months.

[Lordsloss]

CCMark made a comment before about just how important they were. It was either in regards to casualties, or winning, and he gave an example. Someone has to remember? I am a big fan of the defensive points. Nothing is better then a guy losing battles that he should win. I attribute that to their lack of attack points versus my high defensive points.

As for energy, any amount that is in excess of the amount that will regenerate during your longest period away from the game is unnecessary. For me, thats about 6-7 hours worth.Well I am away for 12 hours at a time, so this amount works fine for me. Plus when I level up I have a little extra to use. This might explain why I usually win against opponents when they attack me and have much higher stats. I just checked and I have 60 defense and maybe they don't have that high of attack?

[Ryans67]

Well I am away for 12 hours at a time, so this amount works fine for me. Plus when I level up I have a little extra to use. This might explain why I usually win against opponents when they attack me and have much higher stats. I just checked and I have 60 defense and maybe they don't have that high of attack?

Yea, definately tailor it to your time away. I also have the advantage of that 30% faster energy recovery item. Of course, I no longer use energy except the first day of a crate event...

I've seen people that don't have any att/def points, just because they can't see it. Just gotta rely on blind trust, kinda like the assault bear....

[Lordsloss]

Yea, definately tailor it to your time away. I also have the advantage of that 30% faster energy recovery item. Of course, I no longer use energy except the first day of a crate event...

I've seen people that don't have any att/def points, just because they can't see it. Just gotta rely on blind trust, kinda like the assault bear....I have near 80 Brigand Lightnings and they help out in battle. Once I hit 100 I'll go for some other high loot items. PvE is also a great way to get some quick cash. Every four hits on the ship I get $200,000ish.

[Vballmadam]

I have near 80 Brigand Lightnings and they help out in battle. Once I hit 100 I'll go for some other high loot items. PvE is also a great way to get some quick cash. Every four hits on the ship I get $200,000ish.

The only negative about this is that you will move Up levels rather quickly. If you built a good foundation of units and income you'll be fine but as you level up what was once great stats at the lower levels will not be sufficient when you meet the sharks.

[Lordsloss]

The only negative about this is that you will move Up levels rather quickly. If you built a good foundation of units and income you'll be fine but as you level up what was once great stats at the lower levels will not be sufficient when you meet the sharks.I'm fine against the sharks since I don't lose units. I just keep getting stronger. I don't really know what units to buy anyways. I mean I always have like ten million on hand, but spend it on random buildings. I don't even know what my unit dispersity is...I think that is what it is called.

[Vballmadam]

I'm fine against the sharks since I don't lose units. I just keep getting stronger. I don't really know what units to buy anyways. I mean I always have like ten million on hand, but spend it on random buildings. I don't even know what my unit dispersity is...I think that is what it is called.

Join the club. I don't know my density either.

[Selfproclaimed]

It's ok vball. Your sexy! Density doesn't matter when your sexy,lol

[Lordsloss]

Join the club. I don't know my density either.Ah yes, density. Anyone have a link to the talk about how to figure it out so I know what units to add?

[Vballmadam]

It's ok vball. Your sexy! Density doesn't matter when your sexy,lol

You're to kind! Hope everything is ok with you. Just read somewhere you're going through difficult times. Whatever it is I hope in the end all will be fine.

[Selfproclaimed]

Everything will be fine. I'll still have a roof over my head. But there's just always something

[Jp lfs]

Join the club. I don't know my density either.

The short version would be to divide your attack/defense number by the number of units you bring to battle. This will not give you the exact number, but it will be close.

As far as what units to buy? The short version again would be to find the highest A/D unit, buy it, and see how much your numbers change. Someone recently said to me that spending $3.6 Mill to see his numbers increase by 1 didn't make sense to him. I tend to agree. But strategies differ, so this is a tougher one to give advice on.

[Corsair]

To calculate density, it's level * 5 to determine your max number of allies usable. If you have fewer than this number, use that. Then allies * 4 to determine number of units brought to battle. You can also determine this just by attacking/raiding someone. Then divide your attack or defense by that number for density.

Ex. I am level 84, 254 allies. 84 * 5 = 420, so I am under that. 254 * 4 = 1016.

Attack = 29551/1016 = 29.1
Defense = 31148/1016 = 30.7

The higher the density the better. And remember this is boosted.

ETA: This is the long version, eh JP? ;)

[Jp lfs]

And to be perfectly accurate, you would need to subtract your defensive building scores as well.

[Vballmadam]

I'll work on figuring that out. I need all the help I can get. Or you can go to my base and figure it out for me hahaha...... Thank you both!

[Corsair]

And to be perfectly accurate, you would need to subtract your defensive building scores as well.True, I always forget that...I think you would actually have to subtract all the building D as well...but I don't think anyone does that when comparing. The D stat is a bit more mysterious than attack. Good point though.

[negotiator]

Ah yes, density. Anyone have a link to the talk about how to figure it out so I know what units to add?

Here is link I saved awhile ago however I have yet to figure it out for myself yet.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?31359-How-do-you-figure-density-again

[Jp lfs]

Thank you. It was only recently that I was made aware of the individual building defense number, so I completely forgot that. This sort of tag-team collaboration is what I miss from the old days.

[negotiator]

Maybe it will swing back to the way it was

[Papa Tom]

When it comes to distribution of points perhaps a more dedicated approach should be taken,think about what it is you wish to achieve.Maybe trying to farm maps should require a different outlay compared to camping for long periods of time or perhaps if your going out all guns blazing yet another approach is better
Trying to do a bit of this and a bit of that will leave you a jack of all trades but definitely master of none
That's just my thinking

[BigDog146400220]

To calculate density, it's level * 5 to determine your max number of allies usable. If you have fewer than this number, use that. Then allies * 4 to determine number of units brought to battle. You can also determine this just by attacking/raiding someone. Then divide your attack or defense by that number for density.

Ex. I am level 84, 254 allies. 84 * 5 = 420, so I am under that. 254 * 4 = 1016.

Attack = 29551/1016 = 29.1
Defense = 31148/1016 = 30.7

The higher the density the better. And remember this is boosted.

ETA: This is the long version, eh JP? ;)

Thanks for the density explanation. I had seen people talk about it many times but was lost on the concept. So this is greatly appreciated. I'm at about 31A/32D. Is that about average for a level 93 player...anyone?

[Lordsloss]

So should we look at raw stats or boosted?

[Corsair]

BigDog, I'm right behind you at level 84. Depends on your ally count though. If you are at full allies, that's not good, if you're at 100 or so it's great. Where I'm at, it seems pretty good but there are better.

Lordsloss, I say boosted makes sense; it's easier, and it's what counts when you attack or defend.

ETA: I should point out that unboosted is what rivals see. If you have big boosts they may miss it. This is especially true if you have the composites, and hide it well. Figuring it out takes a spreadsheet or an ally to check your numbers (and there is some rule about it having to be an ally of same or different country, I forget which).

[Lordsloss]

So, if my attack density is 48 and defense 43, then that means... :D sorry I'm slow.

[Corsair]

Yeah you're slow, I said above it depends on your allies! :). How many?

[BODA82]

To calculate density, it's level * 5 to determine your max number of allies usable. If you have fewer than this number, use that. Then allies * 4 to determine number of units brought to battle. You can also determine this just by attacking/raiding someone. Then divide your attack or defense by that number for density.

Ex. I am level 84, 254 allies. 84 * 5 = 420, so I am under that. 254 * 4 = 1016.

Attack = 29551/1016 = 29.1
Defense = 31148/1016 = 30.7

The higher the density the better. And remember this is boosted.

ETA: This is the long version, eh JP? ;)

Good to know, thanks! :D

[Copenhagen]

This is a picture perfect example of how important they are. I hope Cope reads this post because we were discussing this topic a few days ago, and he was a little skeptical of our final conclusions on how they actually work.

Thanks, JP. I did see it, in fact was first to comment on it, even before the counter attack. Recognized that SelfProclaimed was loaded up on D skill points.

Hasselham's info above is really telling, as well.

[Jp lfs]

Thanks, JP. I did see it, in fact was first to comment on it, even before the counter attack. Recognized that SelfProclaimed was loaded up on D skill points.

Hasselham's info above is really telling, as well.

So then are we agreed/satisfied on the actual way that they work now? You and I, I mean, referencing our PM's. I have no intention to share with the public at this time.

[dthfrmabv]

To calculate density, it's level * 5 to determine your max number of allies usable. If you have fewer than this number, use that. Then allies * 4 to determine number of units brought to battle. You can also determine this just by attacking/raiding someone. Then divide your attack or defense by that number for density.

Ex. I am level 84, 254 allies. 84 * 5 = 420, so I am under that. 254 * 4 = 1016.

Attack = 29551/1016 = 29.1
Defense = 31148/1016 = 30.7

The higher the density the better. And remember this is boosted.

ETA: This is the long version, eh JP? ;)

I am trying to understand and apply your concept of density relative to my level. I guess its good strategy to pre-calculate my chances of winning against an opponent if I can figure out their density.

So at level 80 assuming I have same A/D as yours 29.5/31.1 with max allies possible at this level the result per your equation is as follows:

1) 80*5 = 400; 400*4 = 1,600
2) A: 29,500/1,600 = 18.43; D: 31,100/1,600 = 19.36

As you can see results on both A/D is much lower than yours. What appears to be the driving factor here is the # of allies. Does that mean I am under utilizing my units that I bring to battle? If I drop the number of allies I have my density would obviously go up i.e. if I drop to 200 allies the result would be 36.9/38.8.

This assuming no boost is in to play... by the way my A/D sucks and not even close to yours :p.

[Lordsloss]

Yeah you're slow, I said above it depends on your allies! :). How many?Max of 500

[Dreno33]

you've been a member since the beginning of the game. you must never log on to not know that. haha. no worries. it seems everyone has answered your question.

in my opinion, Attack and Defense Skill Points help a lot when it comes down to facing the "random variable"

[Corsair]

So, if my attack density is 48 and defense 43, then that means... :D sorry I'm slow.

Yeah you're slow, I said above it depends on your allies! :). How many?

Max of 500
That's damn good, you're at about 96k att/86k def. There aren't many who have hit 100k stats as a free player. I know JMC has, I know Maverick is close, but not sure of others.

[Corsair]

I am trying to understand and apply your concept of density relative to my level. I guess its good strategy to pre-calculate my chances of winning against an opponent if I can figure out their density.Density is just a way to figure out relative strength to someone else. Odds of winning are easier to figure out based on checking their raw D and estimating boosts. I generally figure I'm good up to a D of about 20k or so, above that I check boosts.


...What appears to be the driving factor here is the # of allies. Does that mean I am under utilizing my units that I bring to battle? If I drop the number of allies I have my density would obviously go up i.e. if I drop to 200 allies the result would be 36.9/38.8.

This assuming no boost is in to play... by the way my A/D sucks and not even close to yours :p.It's means you need more big stat units. The best way to do that is increase your IPH. If you are finding it difficult to find targets you can beat, drop allies. But I bet you're OK. When I first jumped up in allies for the boss events (with questionable results) my density dropped down under 20, but I never felt like I was very weak. A month or so later and I've been able to get back to where I was before (I think I was actually up in the mid-30's or so) on a 350k IPH.

One thing to remember, there's game tough and there's forum tough. Almost everybody on the forum is in the 90 or 95th percentile in the game. If you've been leveling up fast you just need to slow down and build up your forces a bit.

[Lordsloss]

My boosted stats are close to that. I'm just stocking up on valor for now and working on getting there. I have spent like $20 so far on the game and the rest tapjoy gold. I used the money to buy the composite building so I could rack my defense up and stop some attacks. Since building it to a level 7 now it helps immensely. My IPH is only around 170k because I am getting my boost buildings to level ten first. Camping right now until I get them all up before I go 145+

[manbeast]

if you have more than 50 stamina or 1300 energy, you are doing it wrong.

you have wasted some very valuable skill points and will never be able to get them back.

[Poopenshire]

Not if you have the falcon supersonic, Manbeast. i have 2030 energy which is 6.5 hours refill with that boost. Its just right for me.

[manbeast]

Not if you have the falcon supersonic, Manbeast. i have 2030 energy which is 6.5 hours refill with that boost. Its just right for me.

touche haha

I hardly ever do PVE anymore. Wish I hadn't put any skill points in there. Since the nerfed the super loot, PVE doesn't seem work the exp. to me.

[Lordsloss]

touche haha

I hardly ever do PVE anymore. Wish I hadn't put any skill points in there. Since the nerfed the super loot, PVE doesn't seem work the exp. to me.It's a good way to get some quick cash for upgrades though. You can also save up some bosses until they need one hit and get them all at the same time for a good 15 million real quick.

[Q Raider]

if you have more than 50 stamina or 1300 energy, you are doing it wrong.

you have wasted some very valuable skill points and will never be able to get them back.

If you have the 30% boost for PVE income and diddly squat economy then having enough to cover an 8 hour period is ok.

Mind you the latest map is absolute garbage with respect to payouts, definitely not worth the energy required.

[Lordsloss]

If you have the 30% boost for PVE income and diddly squat economy then having enough to cover an 8 hour period is ok.

Mind you the latest map is absolute garbage with respect to payouts, definitely not worth the energy required.I'm not doing the last map. Way too much energy for such little gain.

[Corsair]

if you have more than 50 stamina or 1300 energy, you are doing it wrong.

you have wasted some very valuable skill points and will never be able to get them back.That seems like a lot of stamina. I am at 22 or 23 now and figure I probably won't go much beyond 25, maybe 30. Maybe I will add more if I get heavy into the BP hunt. And like Poop I have the energy boost so I figure I'll go to at least 2200 for energy, that'll be 3 collections on the destroy rail gun mission. I'm around 1100 now. Split about 50/50 on attack and defense points. Those are valuable, agreed.

[Mcdoc]

Like I have said many,many times - a defense of over 200 is a kills r stategy that most people cannot win against. It is an invisible razor wire in your defense. I've been fending off attackers with up to 40k more raw attack than my boosted defense.

[Maverick50727]

To calculate density, it's level * 5 to determine your max number of allies usable. If you have fewer than this number, use that. Then allies * 4 to determine number of units brought to battle. You can also determine this just by attacking/raiding someone. Then divide your attack or defense by that number for density.

Ex. I am level 84, 254 allies. 84 * 5 = 420, so I am under that. 254 * 4 = 1016.

Attack = 29551/1016 = 29.1
Defense = 31148/1016 = 30.7

The higher the density the better. And remember this is boosted.

ETA: This is the long version, eh JP? ;)

FYI, I''m 49.9/53.3 Density. Calculated by not subtracting out the sum of my bases defenses, but I do that sometimes. Base defeneses are used in def, so having them in and considering them a indestructible aditional unit is fine too. It is a matter of opinion and neither is wrong. Just state the formula you use and people can compare apples to apples.


As far as skill point, yes they matter. Mine are fairly equal but def being higher. I put 2 in Def and 1 in Attack when I level now.

I was able to walk right through someone's defense and attack their money building protected by 5 EMPs (2 L3, 2 L2, 1 L1). Then to prove the point I raided all 5 EMPs themsleves. They had almost nothing in def skill points when I questioned them on their wall. Do base defenses help? Yes in lower levels, but in upper levels the skill point distribution can far outweigh their benefit. I've heard people claim people walking through L10 EMPs, but I can't imagine the time or cost to upgrade them to that only to still lose to a whale with high attack points. Many gold players care nothing about def since they have pure gold armies, so all their points are 100% attack.

[Hellstorm]

This is a great threat, great info... Its funny I never actually calculated my density, lol. I am full allied and have a density of about 55. Skill points 145 def. first time i calculated that thx people... I mean I knew it existed, but thats why reminders are good.
I only wish we had more info on the skill points. I did experience differnt bp win. Attacked two rivals with about same stats same boosts and got for 100 bp from one, but 140 bp from the other. That is indeed a big difference, and the reason for that are most likely the skills points. We hear alot of insides from different people, however, those theories might be correct for one person, but are different for another in a similar situation. I think its great to hear all these insides and do also believe skill points can make the difference, but personally have not seen that it has given me a big advantage against people with 30k higher stats. There have been remarks that skill points are only effective for two hits, and become uneffective after that. If that is true I dont know, nobody does.

[Corsair]

Yeah Mav I checked on your stats the other day, I guess you're over 100k boosted on defense, very close on attack, bravo. Major achievement. I think you and JMC are the only free players to do it so far.

I forgot to mention, the main reason I don't see myself pumping up my stamina is that it is relatively cheap to refill with gold. I try to keep a little gold on hand (usually from TJ) to reset if I ever find a mother lode and I'm close to empty. I actually did a full two bars raiding someone's base, almost a $3 mil raid. But it's so rare to need that I prefer to put skill points elsewhere. I am going to start building my D so I can save for my over-vault upgrades down the road. Finally unlocked the Apache, which is a good balanced air unit for that.

I am also going back and picking up the skill point on the 5th level of the maps. I figure those will add up, too.

[Miner]

Corsair and hellstorm -- SHOW US YOUR RANK!

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?38234-Show-Us-Your-RANK

[Corsair]

Haha, yeah Miner, one of these days I'll give in a create a sig. Usually I avoid them for the clutter, but almost a necessity here. Nice work on those badges.