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View Full Version : Attack is half my defense and robbing me? Seriously, Funzio?!



cookie monster
07-12-2012, 12:45 PM
I've been robbed by one player who's attack is around 4,700 and another who's at 5000.


My defense is 9,500 at the moment and climbing.

How the hell is that possible? If I discount my building defense by 2000 I am still WAAAAAYYYY above what they should be able to succeed against.

I am going to bulk up and smash the **** out of them.

sexkitteh
07-12-2012, 12:46 PM
How many skill points do you have in defense?

They could have put lots into attack...

You should ask someone to attack you as well and find out your true defense.

Carlos,
07-12-2012, 12:48 PM
Depends on what sort of defense buildings you have as well

Populouspapa
07-12-2012, 12:49 PM
Maybe they brought friends..

dudeman
07-12-2012, 12:49 PM
Advantage usually goes to the attacker and not the defender. Don't ask me why. It does act as a pretty good deterrent if you have a strong attack though. Smart players will look at that and realize there is a good chance you will get your revenge. Not-smart players will be more easily deterred by inflated defense numbers.

Do these players with attack that's half your defense flood your news when they rob you, or do they pull it off cleanly without any losses? I get more annoyed with the flooded news than I do over being robbed.

_dan_
07-12-2012, 12:50 PM
Against robbery:
mob defense / 2 + building defense + defense skill point * 10 -v.s- mob attack + attack skill point * 10 (with a little random factor)

Your real robbery defense may be much less than you thought.

iteachem
07-12-2012, 12:52 PM
I do this all the time.... I love the surprise.. My best was hitting someone with over 53 Defense when I was 24K attack... I lost a bunch but that level 2 nightclub was worth it...

_dan_
07-12-2012, 12:53 PM
Let say your atk is about 7000, def 9000.
Just make a draft idea that mob atk = mob def, your robbery defense is about 7000/2 + 2000 = 4500 (+ def skill point * 10).

Populouspapa
07-12-2012, 12:54 PM
Against robbery:
mob defense / 2 + building defense + defense skill point * 10 -v.s- mob attack + attack skill point * 10 (with a little random factor)

Your real robbery defense may be much less than you thought.

I think the defenders and attackers best items is also in the calculation.

dudeman
07-12-2012, 12:55 PM
Against robbery:
mob defense / 2 + building defense + defense skill point * 10 -v.s- mob attack + attack skill point * 10 (with a little random factor)

Your real robbery defense may be much less than you thought.

That doesn't look right at all. Where's the random factor for the defense formula? I don't believe skill points work that way. I'm pretty sure you use your full mob defense, and only the mafia defense from buildings in all cases.

Sorry, that formula just doesn't appear correct in my eyes. I'm no math whiz so I can't come up with a better one, but I can DO math and that formula seems like it's at least missing some factors.

Chairman Maw
07-12-2012, 12:55 PM
Let say your atk is about 7000, def 9000.
Just make a draft idea that mob atk = mob def, your robbery defense is about 7000/2 + 2000 = 4500 (+ def skill point * 10).

So going on that, if my defence is currently 25K, I'm going to need to be up in the 50K mark to get any sort of decent defence? That slightly defeats the object, IMO.

_dan_
07-12-2012, 12:56 PM
I think the defenders and attackers best items is also in the calculation.

Your atk/def stats already count all best items you got.

_dan_
07-12-2012, 12:57 PM
So going on that, if my defence is currently 25K, I'm going to need to be up in the 50K mark to get any sort of decent defence? That slightly defeats the object, IMO.

That's right. That's why rob is much easier than attack.

Chairman Maw
07-12-2012, 12:59 PM
That's right. That's why rob is much easier than attack.

Cool. Cheers for that. Best get me more Bodyguard agencies, pronto..

Populouspapa
07-12-2012, 01:01 PM
Your atk/def stats already count all best items you got.

yes but then also the 5 top items is added again.. i.e having 600 atk items is goodie ;)

sexkitteh
07-12-2012, 01:05 PM
Cool. Cheers for that. Best get me more Bodyguard agencies, pronto..

ummmmm the bodyguard agencies are garbage btw...

_dan_
07-12-2012, 01:05 PM
yes but then also the 5 top items is added again.. i.e having 600 atk items is goodie ;)

Look like you don't understand what stats I'm talking about. try to read more.

Populouspapa
07-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Look like you don't understand what stats I'm talking about. try to read more.

lol! ......

Chairman Maw
07-12-2012, 01:15 PM
ummmmm the bodyguard agencies are garbage btw...

Garbage?! please enlighten me!

What are better value and more cost effective to upgrade?

sexkitteh
07-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Gatling guns and only get them to level 3...

I personally attack anyone that is loaded with bodyguard agencies because it's a guaranteed win :D

What are your stats... maybe we can help if we know what you are at right now...

Yahkin
07-12-2012, 01:22 PM
Against robbery:
mob defense / 2 + building defense + defense skill point * 10 -v.s- mob attack + attack skill point * 10 (with a little random factor)

Your real robbery defense may be much less than you thought.

This is mostly accurate, but "Building Defense" is not as listed on the buildings. You get full building defense for all level 1 buildings, but level 2 and above only add have of level 1 defense per level. If you encounter a hood with a lot of high level defense buildings, go crazy and rob em blind.

Chairman Maw
07-12-2012, 01:23 PM
Gatling guns and only get them to level 3...

I personally attack anyone that is loaded with bodyguard agencies because it's a guaranteed win :D

What are your stats... maybe we can help if we know what you are at right now...

Ah, god damn it.

I have 18 BA (lv 7 and above) and a **** load of gattling turrets all lvl1.

My stats are;

Mafia: 1080
Weapons: 2915
Armor: 1287
Attack: 17561
Defense: 25852

Any advice is very welcome!

_dan_
07-12-2012, 01:31 PM
This is mostly accurate, but "Building Defense" is not as listed on the buildings. You get full building defense for all level 1 buildings, but level 2 and above only add have of level 1 defense per level. If you encounter a hood with a lot of high level defense buildings, go crazy and rob em blind.

Nah, you got full defense from buildings for robbery. For attack you got full for level 1 & part of defense for later levels.

Most of you guys don't think that is true.

TRAZ
07-12-2012, 01:36 PM
Someday we'll all live in a city where the d is real....dreamland .....dreamland....ever hopeful.

dudeman
07-12-2012, 01:41 PM
Nah, you got full defense from buildings for robbery. For attack you got full for level 1 & part of defense for later levels.

Most of you guys don't think that is true.

I don't believe that's true for one simple reason. When I rob a rival who has ZERO defense buildings, their real defense score is the same as their profile defense.

sexkitteh
07-12-2012, 01:41 PM
Ah, god damn it.

I have 18 BA (lv 7 and above) and a **** load of gattling turrets all lvl1.

My stats are;

Mafia: 1080
Weapons: 2915
Armor: 1287
Attack: 17561
Defense: 25852

Any advice is very welcome!

Well the Defense from a building is base plus half...

So a level 10 bodyguard is only 55 true defense... that is equivalent to about a level 3/4 gat...

Yahkin
07-12-2012, 01:47 PM
Nah, you got full defense from buildings for robbery. For attack you got full for level 1 & part of defense for later levels.

Most of you guys don't think that is true. Depend on what do you believe before you read the guide.

I disagree. Find any hood filled with level 10 BA's and you will know for sure that you do not get full building defense for robberies. Take their profile defense number and subtract about 30k from it.

Chairman Maw
07-12-2012, 01:50 PM
Well the Defense from a building is base plus half...

So a level 10 bodyguard is only 55 true defense... that is equivalent to about a level 3/4 gat...

Ah, I get you. So do you build other defence buildings as well as GT? how do you keep your defence score up otherwise?!

_dan_
07-12-2012, 01:52 PM
I disagree. Find any hood filled with level 10 BA's and you will know for sure that you do not get full building defense for robberies. Take their profile defense number and subtract about 30k from it.

lol, you think they make the number for what (like gatling gun lvl 1 = 25, lvl 2 = 50 , lvl3 = 87 def point) ? to cheat players ? No need for that.

Chairman Maw
07-12-2012, 01:59 PM
Nngggghhhh, what a rip. I think I might just sell everything, buy trees and frolic naked through the woods...

sexkitteh
07-12-2012, 01:59 PM
lol, you think they make the number for what (like gatling gun lvl 1 = 25, lvl 2 = 50 , lvl3 = 87 def point) ? to cheat players ? No need for that.

What happened (from my understanding) is that originally the game used those defense scores as actual defense scores... then players realized they could buy LOADS of BA's and become untouchable... the defense buildings was not balanced... so they brought balance to them...

Defense buildings are used in defending against Attacks AND Robberies - this was confirmed by CCMark threads ago...

Chairman Maw
07-12-2012, 02:01 PM
What happened (from my understanding) is that originally the game used those defense scores as actual defense scores... then players realized they could buy LOADS of BA's and become untouchable... the defense buildings was not balanced... so they brought balance to them...

Defense buildings are used in defending against Attacks AND Robberies - this was confirmed by CCMark threads ago...

I seriously didnt get that memo. Gold refund please!

Yahkin
07-12-2012, 02:08 PM
lol, you think they make the number for what (like gatling gun lvl 1 = 25, lvl 2 = 50 , lvl3 = 87 def point) ? to cheat players ? No need for that.

No idea why they did it, but they are. I have in the past expressed public outrage about it, but it tends to fall on deaf ears.

The problem is that they are in a tough spot. If they fix the numbers to show actual defense, then the people who spent the money are mad. If they suddenly make the defense numbers displayed work, then gameplay changes drastically and everyone else is mad.

_dan_
07-12-2012, 02:10 PM
No idea why they did it, but they are. I have in the past expressed public outrage about it, but it tends to fall on deaf ears.

The problem is that they are in a tough spot. If they fix the numbers to show actual defense, then the people who spent the money are mad. If they suddenly make the defense numbers displayed work, then gameplay changes drastically and everyone else is mad.

I think it's set from the very beginning. half mob defense for robbery v.s half building defense for attack , fair enough ?

and that will be: full mob defense for attack v.s full building defense for robbery

sexkitteh
07-12-2012, 02:14 PM
I think it's set from the very beginning. half mob defense for robbery v.s half building defense for attack , fair enough ?

and that will be: full mob defense for attack v.s full building defense for robbery

Well you can believe whatever you'd like and propose whatever you'd like...

I think most people are ok with how it is... I know I for one am very happy with the current system...

I'd like however full disclosure on attack and defense skill points...

sexkitteh
07-12-2012, 02:16 PM
I seriously didnt get that memo. Gold refund please!

I don't think anyone did lol...

But it adds a bit of a bluff aspect to the game... makes you think twice about attacking someone... so it's kind of usefull...

The way I gauge my attacks to determine roughly what their TRUE defense is... I look at their attack and add about 2k defense to it...

Doesn't ALWAYS work obviously... but... it's a good way to look at it if you are unsure... like if his attack is 8k and has 20k defense lol

Crime City Mark
07-12-2012, 03:15 PM
Sorry, that formula just doesn't appear correct in my eyes. I'm no math whiz so I can't come up with a better one, but I can DO math and that formula seems like it's at least missing some factors.

That's because the math in it is wrong.

dudeman
07-12-2012, 03:44 PM
That's because the math in it is wrong.

Lol, yeeeaaah, I know. But I've never seen the actual formula you guys have in place so I didn't think it would be very cool to just say "nope, that's wrong." it was obviously missing some stuff though.

DoughBoy
07-12-2012, 03:45 PM
Cool. Cheers for that. Best get me more Bodyguard agencies, pronto..

There is posting around, maybe in the Best of the Best posting, that talks about def. buildings and mafia defense. Bodyguard agencies stink. You get what looks like a good defense but it isn’t really, which accounts for part of the discrepancy in what you think is your defense and your real defense. Also, if you have too big of a mafia (more than you can use), you will have a defense that is higher in your profile than your actual defense. There is quite a bit on this kinda stuff around this forum on over inflation of defense scores.

When I rob or attack someone I look at their def. buildings and mafia #. Often it is way over inflated and I can easily attack or rob them and they can't fight back .. with too many mafia, their attack I think gets over inflated as well. At least, it looks like that with my own scores.

Brooklyn Boy
07-12-2012, 03:52 PM
The bottom line is you don't want to upgrade any Def buildings over lvl3 no matter what they are.

DoughBoy
07-12-2012, 03:54 PM
Gatling guns and only get them to level 3...

I personally attack anyone that is loaded with bodyguard agencies because it's a guaranteed win :D

What are your stats... maybe we can help if we know what you are at right now...

Ditto that. When I see someone loaded with Bodyguard agencies or those Towers I go for it even if their stats look high, they are not. When I find the link to the info on def. buildings I'll post it to back this up.

This is the link I was think of. Anyone else look at this. Is it legit?
http://crimecityios.wikia.com/wiki/Defense_Buildings

Chairman Maw
07-12-2012, 11:38 PM
There is posting around, maybe in the Best of the Best posting, that talks about def. buildings and mafia defense. Bodyguard agencies stink. You get what looks like a good defense but it isnít really, which accounts for part of the discrepancy in what you think is your defense and your real defense. Also, if you have too big of a mafia (more than you can use), you will have a defense that is higher in your profile than your actual defense. There is quite a bit on this kinda stuff around this forum on over inflation of defense scores.

When I rob or attack someone I look at their def. buildings and mafia #. Often it is way over inflated and I can easily attack or rob them and they can't fight back .. with too many mafia, their attack I think gets over inflated as well. At least, it looks like that with my own scores.

If this is the case, then I have been mislead and ripped off by purchasing bodyguard agencies. and if the quote below is correct then what is going and and when will it be sorted out!?


That's because the math in it is wrong.

Chairman Maw
07-12-2012, 11:40 PM
Ditto that. When I see someone loaded with Bodyguard agencies or those Towers I go for it even if their stats look high, they are not. When I find the link to the info on def. buildings I'll post it to back this up.

This is the link I was think of. Anyone else look at this. Is it legit?
http://crimecityios.wikia.com/wiki/Defense_Buildings

So the lowest column is the actual defence you will get? shocking. They truely are out to rip us all off if this is the case.

dudeman
07-13-2012, 12:03 AM
So the lowest column is the actual defence you will get? shocking. They truely are out to rip us all off if this is the case.

I'm not going to STF for this because it would take all night, but I read somewhere, a long time ago, that when the game was released the original intent was to allow a maximum of 5 of each defense building. Apparently an extra zero slipped into the programming and people were quickly building 50 Body Guard Agencies and upgrading them, quickly giving them some very strong defense numbers. Since people spent gold, for some reason Funzio felt the appropriate action was to dramatically reduce their effectiveness rather than remove the extra buildings and refund the gold purchase price and the cash spent on upgrades. That certainly seems like it would have been easier to do rather than examine and correct every single hood.

I didn't start the game until a few months after that happened, so all I've ever known is the way things currently are. I did a lot of reading after finding the forum though. Great game, although it throws many curveballs and the focus on selling gold seems a bit extreme to me. It used to be awesome whether you wanted to spend or not. Now the awesomeness is almost exclusively reserved for players who can afford to spend a few hundred a month.

balax
07-13-2012, 12:23 AM
That's because the math in it is wrong.
.
so Mark tell us the wright one
we love this game, we spend hours day and night, we also spend money
is there a reason for not telling us?

_dan_
07-13-2012, 12:30 AM
Read the forum for months, I don't even know when CCMark write something like "This math is right". Have you guys ever seen CCMark told people that thing ?

Check back the thread when forum members tried to figure out how building defense works, CCMark also wrote somethings like "This math is wrong" a couple of times.

Thought Funkio always want to hide CC mechanism to all players, if it's wrong - should be good for Funkio, should he appears to say somethings ? But if it's correct - not good for Funkio, it's time to make people confuse, then here he is.

dudeman
07-13-2012, 12:42 AM
Read the forum for months, I don't even know when CCMark write something like "This math is right". Have you guys ever seen CCMark told people that thing ?

Check back the thread when forum members tried to figure out how building defense works, CCMark also wrote somethings like "This math is wrong" a couple of times.

Thought Funkio always want to hide CC mechanism to all players, if it's wrong - should be good for Funkio, should he appears to say somethings ? But if it's correct - not good for Funkio, it's time to make people confuse, then here he is.

Since you've been racing for months, you should know that I usually take the "official statements" with a big grain of salt. This is a rare case of "dudeman agrees with CCM". :eek:

Look at your math again:


Against robbery:
mob defense / 2 + building defense + defense skill point * 10 -v.s- mob attack + attack skill point * 10 (with a little random factor)

Your real robbery defense may be much less than you thought.

As I mentioned before, the math you're using for skill points is wrong, they don't work that way. I don't know the exact math or exactly how they work, but I have some strong suspicions that I'm keeping to myself. You've also forgotten about the random factor used in the attack formula, and I am 95% sure that the values you are using for defense buildings are off.

If your formula works to put your mind at peace then that's a bonus for you, but I am very sure that it's not the right math as used in game.

_dan_
07-13-2012, 12:46 AM
It's pointless to argue with you, dudeman.

dudeman
07-13-2012, 12:52 AM
It's pointless to argue with you, dudeman.

Likewise. :)

_dan_
07-13-2012, 12:54 AM
Because you don't know anything :cool:

dudeman
07-13-2012, 12:59 AM
Because you don't know anything :cool:

Hey, we could start a club! :cool: lol!

Chairman Maw
07-13-2012, 05:09 AM
Count me in. I dont know anything about nothing