The ultimate strength of a free player

[Vidia]

99% of gem players even very heavy gem players can not escape the wrath of a dedicated free player. What it takes are time and patience and a clear sense of direction.

A free player can use three months by parking at a low level to build up his economy, and reaches 25k or 30k IPH.
Then build a army of dragons(70/43). For each of them, equip weapon+arm with combined attack 36, plus 20% boost from beast building, his total attack is 1500 * (70 * 1.2 *+ 36) = 180k. That is right, 180k attack. Because the maximum defense of an gold unit is 43. A gem player has to make up the difference by gem units, but to reach 180k defense, it takes at least $7000. Out of each of 1500 units, it needs to have at least 70 defense points.

1500 dragon at 13000 gold each equals 19.50 million gold. 1500 weapons and 1500 armors, assuming half got by looting. Each at 20000gold per piece, total 30 million . Add up for both units and equipment, total 59.50million gold. At an economy of 25k IPH, it takes 2400 hrs, 100 days. Factor time loss by sleep, rest, then 200 days, about 6 months. Count in 3 month to build economy, total 9 months. So in 9 months, a free player could build an invincible army.

[Hapl0]

That's cool Vidia, are u doing this?

[Hugh Bris]

What it takes are time and patience

YOU SAID IT!!!

I'm a massive gold player but there are still a few that are my equals - one on this very board that I respect for the time and effort put into their character as totally free.

Especially when you're free - I would suggest giving some skill points to defence too. My 2 cents.

[Joe Brown1]

Can you really get to 25K IPH in 3 months - I'm at 5300 IPH and it s has taken me quite awhile to get there. Also factor in that an economy that high would require the cottages, farms and other frequest collection buildings. It would be very hard to actually achieve that even during waking hours.

[The_Red]

Can you really get to 25K IPH in 3 months -

No. Not possible.

There's some assumption that a GEM player wouldn't also be building their economy and supplementing it with gem units. Most of the high level players are starting to build dragon armies.

In the end, even that army would be bested by gem players because they will always have ~100/gem unit advantage over a free player.

I really do like this line of thought though - eventually the game will stagnate as everyone becomes asymptotic to that curve.

[Vidia]

Can you really get to 25K IPH in 3 months - I'm at 5300 IPH and it s has taken me quite awhile to get there. Also factor in that an economy that high would require the cottages, farms and other frequest collection buildings. It would be very hard to actually achieve that even during waking hours.

If not wasting time on other buildings and upgrade, it is more likely. I am trying and can get almost 1k IPH every 4 days.

[Vidia]

That's cool Vidia, are u doing this?

I am doing this at a different account parking at level 4.

[Winstrol]

It's so easy to say that , but how long it's gonna take you to build that kind of economy on your level 4 character hah ? 2 years min. I'd say

[Masterjojobinks]

To get 25K IPH at a low level you would have to have the Merchant Caravan and all available free money buildings before upgraded to level 10 and collect every 5 minutes.

[The_Legend_Shall_Live_On]

I've looked at this ultimate army myself. In fact, I was going to be working up the Breeding Den to make such an army. :)

As far as getting your IPH up very high and effective (not just cottages where you have to collect every 5 or 10 minutes to make it productive IPH), you will have to get to level 20 or so to get the better buildings. Keeping your defense high with some zeppelins can get the hunters at bay while you get your IPH up and get your vault to 330k.

[Hobtuse]

It is possible of course to beat a gem army being a free player. However, there are proper gem players too and a gem player who plays like a very good free player and has the additional benefit of gems will beat you every single time.

[Rizzlar]

99% of gem players even very heavy gem players can not escape the wrath of a dedicated free player. What it takes are time and patience and a clear sense of direction.

A free player can use three months by parking at a low level to build up his economy, and reaches 25k or 30k IPH.
Then build a army of dragons(70/43). For each of them, equip weapon+arm with combined attack 36, plus 20% boost from beast building, his total attack is 1500 * (70 * 1.2 *+ 36) = 180k. That is right, 180k attack. Because the maximum defense of an gold unit is 43. A gem player has to make up the difference by gem units, but to reach 180k defense, it takes at least $7000. Out of each of 1500 units, it needs to have at least 70 defense points.

1500 dragon at 13000 gold each equals 19.50 million gold. 1500 weapons and 1500 armors, assuming half got by looting. Each at 20000gold per piece, total 30 million . Add up for both units and equipment, total 59.50million gold. At an economy of 25k IPH, it takes 2400 hrs, 100 days. Factor time loss by sleep, rest, then 200 days, about 6 months. Count in 3 month to build economy, total 9 months. So in 9 months, a free player could build an invincible army.


These are some pretty good statistics and a good read but unfortunately this game as well as others has or still is subject to cheats/scams/fiddles, whatever you want to call it...

It's like with the vial contests, how can someone have 80+ vials after only a couple of hours of play, I hear you say,"they buy gems and reset"... If this were true (and if you take note of the players in the top 50 or so, they are recurringly the same people) these folks must be spending hundreds, if not thousands of dollars/pounds on gems.

As there are cheats /scams/fiddles online then this just answers my question doesn't it

[Great_wall2]

Hey Vidia,

I think it was a great idea for you to put together a breakdown of the strength of free players, however there are several assumptions you are making that is not possible. First see the post I just made of the limits of IPH.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?36879-The-Limits-and-Milestones-of-IPH-for-Free-Players

There is no way, as a free player, that you can reach 25,000 IPH in 3 months. It will take you at minimum almost a year plus 3 months of perfect timing upgrades of all your buildings to max assuming you have all of them at level 41. Even then your max IPH ceiling as a free player will be around the range of 29,000. Camping at lower levels can be advantageous for awhile, however the lower level the player is, the lower the max IPH ceiling will be. Eventually those campers that level at a reasonable rate will out pace low level campers. Your best bet is to slowly progress to level 41 then camp there, that way you have all the available buildings to upgrade.

Also by max upgrading the player will start running into issues of the cost of upgrading the buildings. This will ultimately slow unit purchases down as well making it even longer to build the ultimate dragon army unless the player is PVEing as well to supplement their income. If this is the case then the player will level accordingly and cannot camp out at lower levels.

[rareay84]

I keep a little spreadsheet which calculates how often I'll likely collect from any given building in a day. For example, I'll collect from a 3 hr building maybe 5x/day out of the 8x possible. I then use these modified numbers to prioritize what I upgrade, with an eye on max output so I don't upgrade anything that will be useless to me later on.

In other words, I don't give a wet slap about the meaningless IPH number. Got rid of my cottages a while ago.

From where I'm standing, this is a much more useful way to figure out your ultimate strength as a free player:

http://i45.tinypic.com/hvo378.gif

[asdfg12345]

You might as well just find a partime job to work for during the weekends and buy gems if you plan on playing in such a boring way.

[Musketblade]

wow you guys are geeks

[asdfg12345]

wow you guys are geeks
Bro, you just visited a video game forum. That makes you a geek too.

[procsyzarc]

Three things

1/ Gem players can do this too so they will always be stronger.
2/ Where do you get 3 months to build an economy to 25kph? I would really like to know how this can be done, I would guess more likely a few years if you are camping
3/ If you get anywhere near 1500 of the dragon you will be losing 1-3 every single fight so your income will be used just maintaining your supply of them, and if your not going to fight then whats the point anyway

[Vidia]

Three things

1/ Gem players can do this too so they will always be stronger.
2/ Where do you get 3 months to build an economy to 25kph? I would really like to know how this can be done, I would guess more likely a few years if you are camping
3/ If you get anywhere near 1500 of the dragon you will be losing 1-3 every single fight so your income will be used just maintaining your supply of them, and if your not going to fight then whats the point anyway

1. Gem players can do it too, but the end is both you and them end with the same strong attack and weak defense army. You can kill them and they can kill you, no one is immune.
2. You don't have to wait until 25k IPH to start building your army. You can start at 10k IPH, which is only two month maximum.
3. That is why you need water temple and a strong IPH.

[BadNews]

No. Not possible.

There's some assumption that a GEM player wouldn't also be building their economy and supplementing it with gem units. Most of the high level players are starting to build dragon armies.

In the end, even that army would be bested by gem players because they will always have ~100/gem unit advantage over a free player.

I really do like this line of thought though - eventually the game will stagnate as everyone becomes asymptotic to that curve.

Not just starting, they are already half way to the finaly destination. Check this out!!!!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36794772/temp/KA/IMG_0112.gif
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36794772/temp/KA/IMG_0113.gif

[MaverickMunkey]

Not just starting, they are already half way to the finaly destination. Check this out!!!!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36794772/temp/KA/IMG_0112.gif

Either they have a gold hack or have spent a ridiculous amount of money just buying gold because with that few raids and battles won, there is no way that they could have accumulated that much gold, number of dragons or even have afforded the building upgrades needed to unlock the dragons.

There is something dodgy about this.

[Hapl0]

I think the same way.

[Vile Lynn]

Hi Hap! :cool:

Yeah... They should send in a ticket & let support figure it out.
But if legit, must be nice!

[Hapl0]

Hi VL ;)

I think only BadNews know who is him.

[The_Legend_Shall_Live_On]

Just as a point:

13,000 gold X 760 = 9.88 million gold.

If you don't spend your gold on a lot of gold buildings doing upgrades, focus on specific unit buildings, and the boosts, AND you've killed over 7000 PvE, then this is not only doable, but easy. If you then buy a few Mountains of Gold to supplant the money collecting and killing enemies, and maybe a couple of Mountain of Gems to speed up the upgrade of the Breeding Den, then you've got it made.

As an example, if you have 2 Manors, 2 Lenders and have upgraded only 1 of each, you have spent more than 1 million gold. If you have all of the gold buildings (not including the ones bought by gems), but including the 2 manors and 2 lenders, and have upgraded every building (except lenders and manors) to level 4, you have spent over 3 million gold.

Plan early on and you can do it.

[BadNews]

I don't think that way. They are gem players. Check out this guy, :-). He got 93 eggs. No.1 of current event.

We may learned. IPH means nothing; Battles and Raids means nothing. Without all of those, this guy can achieve 51k attack and 57k defense.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36794772/temp/KA/IMG_0122.gif

[Hapl0]

Is it possible that if he were farming the maps, don't had better hero'armor/weapon?

[asdfg12345]

didnt know mages could equip bonelord shanks lol

[The_Red]

I don't think that way. They are gem players. Check out this guy, :-). He got 93 eggs. No.1 of current event.
[/IMG]

thought it was taboo to post peoples IDs on here....

[echus14]

Sorry if this is in the wrong thread. I was not able to start a new thread (guess its controlled).

Second post to this forum and would like to start by saying “Hi !!!” and a big thank you to the contributors like Ghost, Countersniper, Fisk, etc, who have put up so much useful info. Really appreciate it.

Based on what I’ve seen, would like to make a suggestion. If this suggestion proves inappropriate, my apologies in advance. It’s been nearly 20 years since I’ve played an RPG, so perhaps my views are out of date vis-a-vis today’s gaming community.

It appears that there is a constant tension between the needs of the real money-paying players (to whom we are all grateful to for financing the game) and the majority free players (who add so much life to the game and without which this place would be pretty much a ghost town ... no pun intended to Ghost :D ). This gets particularly obvious as the game enters into the higher levels or what I see are referred to as “whale territory”.

At this stage I would make an assumption – that is even whales are not interested in total immunity, since that would essentially be completely boring; each day facing merely the same relatively small group of equally well endowed and deep-pocketed players. Rather, I trust that what they seek is an edge, but NOT an insurmountable one, so that the game retains its adrenaline rush when interacting with other players (otherwise this might as well be purely a PvE game). Like I said, its been a long time since I’ve been gaming and if my assumptions are wrong, then you can probably just stop reading now.

My suggestion is this: At a certain reasonably high level, introduce a game leveller item. This item would have the following characteristics:

1. Should be purchasable purely with gold, so even free players can obtain it (given the current max size of the vault, I’m thinking of around 500,000 gold pieces?).

2. Destroys up to one third of buildings and units of the other player, INCLUDING gem units and currently “indestructible” units. The choice of destroyed units is purely random but gem units can probably have a SLIGHT advantage of survival (this needs to be kept low otherwise it defeats the whole purpose of the game leveller item). Here, the paying players would have both another advantage (their units would probably be numerically superior than most and therefore what remains would still be a viable force) and a disadvantage (the one-third max hit per game leveller is a lot more painful).

3. No more than 1 of these game levellers can be used against any one player over a six month period or 2 over a 12 month period, regardless of who is attacking (and in the case of a second hit within 12 months, maybe less (one-sixth?) damage should be incurred by the target). This allows the paying players an advantage as they can rebuild much faster during their immunity/partial immunity periods. It also prevents ridiculously bullying by groups of players.

4. The pre-requisite for having a game leveller could be any one of the Power Boost buildings for Infantry, Magic or Machine with a slight and relatively INEXPENSIVE add-on (the add-on is only available at a particular level). This is a reasonably low bar but it gives forewarning of the POSSIBILITY of the presence of a game changer. The actual presence or absence of game changers is ONLY KNOWN TO THE ACTUAL PLAYER WHO HAS THE GAMER CHANGER(S). This adds an element of uncertainty and helps to bring back the edge to playing at the higher levels.

You’d probably guessed that the concept of the game changers is based on how real life nuclear weapons can largely level the playing field between what would otherwise be completely lop-sided players. Should be lots of possibilities of how this can develop - eg, coalitions to prevent proliferation of game changers, rouge kingdoms, etc?

The above is not exhaustive, but may provide a framework for discussion if this forum (and/or ultimately, GREE) deem it worthwhile. In any case, just my 2 cents’ worth.

Just hope it doesn’t result in an entire pod of whales descending on my nascent little kingdom (in which case, it was nice knowing all of you ... gulp!).

[Musketblade]

Thats too many words, but hey im just waiting to open another box anyway. 776624395 add me before I raid you

[emcee]

Free player cannot achieve what OP stated in 3 months without spending real money or hacking the game. Even perfect collection which is impossible cannot come remotely close at level 4 as you don't have access to many good income buildings. It will take years. Any income buying units/equips or leveling non income buildings takes away from your economy.

As a free player and playing for about 3 months on 2 accounts my level 26 warrior has an income of 9179/hr. I have the arcane defender on both accounts so I am going to assume my economy for a free player is at the top percentile.

[echus14]

Thats too many words, but hey im just waiting to open another box anyway. 776624395 add me before I raid you

:o:o Haha ... I know and apologies for the long intro post. Just wanted to flesh out the suggestion. You'll probably be receiving an ally request from me later in the day too :D

[el_gringo]

Either they have a gold hack or have spent a ridiculous amount of money just buying gold because with that few raids and battles won, there is no way that they could have accumulated that much gold, number of dragons or even have afforded the building upgrades needed to unlock the dragons.

There is something dodgy about this.

They could have been one of the people who hit the level cap when it was lower down, and could therefore farm monsters for cash and loot without gaining xp.