Defense Buildings

[jlhy]

Decided to do a quick rehash on defense buildings and their effects against attacks and robberies since I still see questions about them popping up every other week or so. Hopefully this will make it easier for the newer players to search for the information.


http://crimecityios.wikia.com/wiki/Defense_Buildings

Look at the Mafia D section on each building. Thats the total amount of defense the building will provide you against attacks per level of the defense building. (defense number in the fight screen).

For example:
Level 4 Abandoned Building would increase your attack defense by 5 (2+1+1+1=5)
Level 4 Guard Tower would increase your attack defense by 7.5 (3+1.5+1.5+1.5=7.5)
Level 4 Bodyguard Agency would increase your attack defense by 25 points (10+5+5+5=25).
Level 4 Muay Thai center would increase your attack defense by 45 (18+9+9+9=45)
Level 4 Gattling Turret would increase your attack defense by 62.5 (25+12.5+12.5+12.5=62.5)
Level 4 Sniper's Den would increase your attack defense by 80 (32+16+16+16=80)

So if you look at a level 10 bodyguard agency in someones hood its providing them with 750 or 826 (tycoon) profile defense but only adding a total of 55 defense vs attacks (fight screen).

The tycoon bonus value doesn't apply to attack defense value.

So if you see a lot of high bodyguard agencies you will see a pretty big difference in their profile defense and compared to their defense in the fight screen. You will see less variance if they have a lot of the high end defense buildings such as missile turrets, surveillance centers or police stations. The lower the upgrade level of the defense building the less variance you will see between the players profile defense and fight screen defense numbers.

Previously you could check the numbers by using the defense goals but funzio has changed it so it shows your profile defense now. Only way to check now is to have someone attack you, tell you your fight defense, build or upgrade a defense building and have them attack you again and tell you the result.



Robbing Defense Formula
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?9738-Quitting-the-game&p=42565#post42565


There's some good info in here.

Fight defense looks like this:

Total item defense + Building defense + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)

Rob defense looks like this:

1/2 total item defense + Building defense + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)

There's been a lot of changes behind the scenes since he's posted this so who knows if the formula is still the same but its the only posted basis from a funzio employee that we have to go by at the moment.

Going off of this formula, if you don't have any defense buildings in your hood your defense against robberies are basically cut in half. Supposedly you are supposed to get the full amount of defense listed from a defense building when it is applied towards defending against robberies.

[Swifty]

Thank for your efforts. Very unselfish of you.

[PawnXIIX]

Thank you for reposting this. Really helps out when all we have are people necro-ing threads but, I like this method much better :)

So can somebody explain how when somebody displays lets say 8000 attack on the rob result screen it's only like...7800 defense? How is only 200 defense accounted for from their items? O.o

So we're saying that 400 defense out of their 8000 displayed defense is from equipment? That can't be right :(

[emcee]

Bodyguard agencies, abandoned buildings and guard towers have some of the worst inflated defense figures out there versus effective mafia defense. A level 10 bodyguard agency has a rated of 750 (tycoon 826) defense but a true mafia defense of only 55. Gatling turrets at the same level are 2.5x more effective and take up 1/5 less space. The downside is they take forever to level in comparison.

[jlhy]

Thank you for reposting this. Really helps out when all we have are people necro-ing threads but, I like this method much better :)

So can somebody explain how when somebody displays lets say 8000 attack on the rob result screen it's only like...7800 defense? How is only 200 defense accounted for from their items? O.o

So we're saying that 400 defense out of their 8000 displayed defense is from equipment? That can't be right :(

Currently the rob screen displays the same defense number as the fight screen making it very difficult to figure out rob defense. Previously (couple months back) the rob screen used to display a different set of numbers than the fight screen but they decided to change it. Not sure if it was due to an oversight or funzio just trying to give the game more "mystery". On the plus side you can use the rob screen to figure out your opponents true defense if your unsure on whether its safe to attack or not.

[Hank]

You claim that "mafia defense" is 'the total amount of defense the building will provide you against attacks per level of the defense building.' If this is true, then why doesn't that formula you reference regarding fight defense contain 'mafia defense' anywhere in it. The formula only has 'building defense' in it, and building defense and mafia defense are entirely different quantities from the info in the wiki link you provided. So either the formula you have for fight defense is wrong or the concept of mafia defense is wrong, no?

[PawnXIIX]

Currently the rob screen displays the same defense number as the fight screen making it very difficult to figure out rob defense. Previously (couple months back) the rob screen used to display a different set of numbers than the fight screen but they decided to change it.

I vouch for that. So that screen when I rob is the fight defense screen...okay. So when the person has 9000 displayed defense, and lets say that 3000 of it is from buildings then they have a rob defense of 6000 whilst the fight defense is still at 9000. And no matter what it is going to display 9000 therefore when I am robbing I shall pay no attention to it? :)

@Hank: I'm pretty sure what he means by total item defense is the mafia defense

[Hank]

@Hank: I'm pretty sure what he means by total item defense is the mafia defense

that would make the formula look like this

Fight defense:

Mafia defense + Building defense + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)


lol, now the formula implies that items contribute 0 to fight defense. I don't think that's true, my items seem to help me in fights ;P

[jlhy]

You claim that "mafia defense" is 'the total amount of defense the building will provide you against attacks per level of the defense building.' If this is true, then why doesn't that formula you reference regarding fight defense contain 'mafia defense' anywhere in it. The formula only has 'building defense' in it, and building defense and mafia defense are entirely different quantities from the info in the wiki link you provided. So either the formula you have for fight defense is wrong or the concept of mafia defense is wrong, no?

The calculations that I had listed above were for the mafia D section of the wiki. The number in the mafia D section is the amount that the building would add to your defense numbers in the fight screen when a player attacks you.

[Hank]

The calculations that I had listed above were for the mafia D section of the wiki.

say what? Can you explain how those calculations are for mafia D? They don't seem to have mafia D anywhere in them

[PawnXIIX]

I think both formulas are semantically correct provided they do mean two things. What I think of item defense is the defense of all items used by my mafia upon an attack. The post was created by CCM last September, so I think item defense meant something a little different back then. I think they mean the same thing.

...I hope they mean the same thing *worried*

[jlhy]

say what? Can you explain how those calculations are for mafia D? They don't seem to have mafia D anywhere in them


Level 4 Gattling Turret would increase your attack defense by 62.5 (25+12.5+12.5+12.5=62.5)
If you look at the level 4 mafiaD section in the wiki its the number is 62.5
for level 3 it would provide 50 (25+12.5+12.5 = 50)
level 2 would provide 37.5 (15+12.5 = 37.5)

[jlhy]

Hrm let me try this again. I'll use the Bodyguard Agency for my example.

Level 1 - 11 defense (tycoon), 10 defense (mafia D)
Level 2 - 33 defense (tycoon), 15 defense (10+5=15 mafia D)
Level 3 - 66 defense (tycoon), 20 defense (10+5+5=20 mafia D)
Level 10 - 826 defense (tycoon), 55 defense (10+5+5+5+5+5+5+5+5+5=55 mafia D)

Say you have the tycoon bonus and have no defense buildings in your hood and the defense listed on your profile page is 1000 from items. When someone attacks you your 1000 defense will show up in their fight screen. If you were to build 1 bodyguard agency your defense in your profile page will go up to 1011 and if a player attacked you your defense would be 1010 in the fight screen. If you level that bodyguard agency to level 2 your profile defense would go up to 1033 and if a player attacked you your defense would be 1015 in the fight screen. If you level that bodyguard agency to level 3 your profile defense would go up to 1066 and if a player attacked you your defense would be 1020 in the fight screen. If you level that 1 bodyguard agency to level 10 your profile defense would be 1826 and if a player attacked you your defense would be 1055 in the fight screen.

Hope this explanation helps.

[Hank]

If you look at the level 4 mafiaD section in the wiki its the number is 62.5
for level 3 it would provide 50 (25+12.5+12.5 = 50)
level 2 would provide 37.5 (15+12.5 = 37.5)

i got all that, I was asking how come these formulas:

Fight defense looks like this:

Total item defense + Building defense + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)

Rob defense looks like this:

1/2 total item defense + Building defense + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)


More specifically, im talking about the one that calulates attack defense. The calulation above does not contain this 'mafia D' quantity that you speak of. If this formula truely accounts for what's happening in game, then the formula needs to somehow incorporate 'mafia defense' IF mafia defense really exists.

[Hank]

Hrm let me try this again. I'll use the Bodyguard Agency for my example.

Level 1 - 11 defense (tycoon), 10 defense (mafia D)
Level 2 - 33 defense (tycoon), 15 defense (10+5=15 mafia D)
Level 3 - 66 defense (tycoon), 20 defense (10+5+5=20 mafia D)
Level 10 - 826 defense (tycoon), 55 defense (10+5+5+5+5+5+5+5+5+5=55 mafia D)

Say you have the tycoon bonus and have no defense buildings in your hood and the defense listed on your profile page is 1000 from items. When someone attacks you your 1000 defense will show up in their fight screen. If you were to build 1 bodyguard agency your defense in your profile page will go up to 1011 and if a player attacked you your defense would be 1010 in the fight screen. If you level that bodyguard agency to level 2 your profile defense would go up to 1033 and if a player attacked you your defense would be 1015 in the fight screen. If you level that bodyguard agency to level 3 your profile defense would go up to 1066 and if a player attacked you your defense would be 1020 in the fight screen. If you level that 1 bodyguard agency to level 10 your profile defense would be 1826 and if a player attacked you your defense would be 1055 in the fight screen.

Hope this explanation helps.

not at all. Im sorry you had to type all of that. I totally get how you calculate mafia defense, what i don't get is how it can exist, and not show up in the fight formulas.

[jlhy]

The numbers were gotten from the old defense goals when they listed the a players defense that would appear in the fight screen and from asking other players to attack and post what my defense in the fight screen was. It was all experimenting with the different defense buildings and levels and recording their results then seeing a pattern between them.

Wish White Frog was here to better explain it. My explanations seem to be a bit too jumbled and confusing.

[Hank]

Its okay, maybe i just ask too many questions

[Los Angel]

Those formulas sound complicated, but thanks for posting and trying to explain. I'm still confused LOL

[Lars]

The calulation above does not contain this 'mafia D' quantity that you speak of.

I think a potential source of confusion here is that there is no canonical name for the internally used defense from buildings. CC does not directly show them, they are derived numbers. To my knowledge, jlhy (and shorty afterwards peacock) was the first to figure out the numbers. white frog later named the numbers "effective building defense" which is more descriptive. The naming in the wiki was motivated by getting a *short* label as longer resulted in a messed up table ...

As a side note experiments from white frog led him to the assumption that the effective building defense is cut in half for attacks. (Note that this disagrees with CCM's statements to the effects of defense buildings, both older posts and recent posts. However, I trust white frog's conclusions.)

Also, money buildings seem to have a build-in defense. There is a number in the game data, higher for the more powerful money buildings. It is not known if the build-in defense scales with the buildings level.

This would mean:

Fight defense = (total item defense) + 1/2*(effective building defense) + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)

Rob defense = 1/2 (total item defense) + (effective building defense) + (money building defense contribution) + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)

[Hank]

Thanks for explaining Lars. You bridged the gap in my understanding well. Those formulas that you gave seem to approximate the mechanics of the game much better than those given by CCM

[Plux]

The thread is incorrect, more homework is required!

[dudeman]

The thread is incorrect, more homework is required!

I was up late last night when this thread was posted and I thought something similar. I thought maybe I was just tired though so I slept on it.

Reading it again today, I still think it's somewhat off. My math skills aren't up to par with my English though, so I can't really help. All I can say (and have it make sense and not ramble trying to explain myself) is that something just doesn't look right.

[Dr BoneCrusher]

Come on Plux I hear you know a lot on this subject. Do You want to share?

[Plux]

I'd not thank Jlhy just yet, the beginning of the thread has the right start but then falls apart in understanding. Dudeman, you saw it too, it's flawed and you need to go back to your homework people. Your battles will be as confused as before the thread. You need to re-appraise how you interpret your info.

[PawnXIIX]

Fight defense = (total item defense) + 1/2*(effective building defense) + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)

Rob defense = 1/2 (total item defense) + (effective building defense) + (money building defense contribution) + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)

Money Building defense contribution? What's that?

[Plux]

Homework has been set.

[PawnXIIX]

Homework has been set.

Whoa look at the time gotta split :S

[Dr BoneCrusher]

Homework has been set.

I have tracked this for weeks, defensive numbers that show up after you rob or attack are the same but it is a lot easier to rob then attack. What am I missing?

[PawnXIIX]

I have tracked this for weeks, defensive numbers that show up after you rob or attack are the same but it is a lot easier to rob then attack. What am I missing?

I know what you mean, I see the same thing. I don't tend to attack more people though, I only attack to complete goals and the level of people I can rob successfully. We need data.

Think i'm going to do some calculations on people I rob and I'll check back in later.

[nopenopenope]

Also, money buildings seem to have a build-in defense. There is a number in the game data, higher for the more powerful money buildings. It is not known if the build-in defense scales with the buildings level

This is definitely true or the random generator is off the charts on occasion... The defense seems to grow with the building's level.

[PawnXIIX]

So I guess we'll never really know the true defense that a player has with this variable :/

[Hank]

@Dr BoneCrusher, you seem to be missing the obvious. The outcomes of fights and robberies are calculated differently. There is a different formula that determines the outcome of each. If you look at the formulas it becomes obvious that robberies are easier because item defense is halved, and most peoples defense is made up mostly of item defense.

@Plux, I'll agree that there are things incorrect in this thread, but Lar's formulas seem like a decent representation of what I see in game. Is there any particular aspect of them that you disagree with?

[Dr BoneCrusher]

@Dr BoneCrusher, you seem to be missing the obvious. The outcomes of fights and robberies are calculated differently. There is a different formula that determines the outcome of each. If you look at the formulas it becomes obvious that robberies are easier because item defense is halved, and most peoples defense is made up mostly of item defense.

@Plux, I'll agree that there are things incorrect in this thread, but Lar's formulas seem like a decent representation of what I see in game. Is there any particular aspect of them that you disagree with?


@Hank I understand that item defense is halved when robbing a players building but, recently I ran across a player with no defensive buildings. His defense was 63k and my attack is 40k he had very high level NC's and casinos. I have 52 stamina points and it took over half my points to get 4 wins on the NC's and the same for the casinos. In the same day I found another player with 70k defense with many higher level defensive building, also with high level NC's it only took me 5 points to win 4 times. So, I am not sure how the calculations can be correct.

[PawnXIIX]

All I know is that even though there's formulas that attacks still make no sense at all to me. How is it that I have 8000 attack i'm losing to player with 6500 defense...come on. Broken game??

That happened twice in a row, back to back I wen't 10-1 <.<

[Steve0]

Mabe Skill points are the factor

[PawnXIIX]

Mabe Skill points are the factor

80 attack points at level 110 for me. Sounds like with the advantage I have that he shouldn't win that single fight...It makes no sense.

[Steve0]

I dont know I only have 49 in attack and 36 on Defence.

[dudeman]

All I know is that even though there's formulas that attacks still make no sense at all to me. How is it that I have 8000 attack i'm losing to player with 6500 defense...come on. Broken game??

That happened twice in a row, back to back I wen't 10-1 <.<

I think the random factor would likely be enough to cause that, but I cannot and will not argue the broken game theory since it definitely is broken. I can't say the extent to which it's broken, but it is most definitely broken in more than one way.

[PawnXIIX]

that's one heck of a random element because with the skill points i'm looking at nearly 9000 attack with my current skill points.

I shouldn't be losing to somebody who has 1500 less defense than my attack. At that point the random element is far too accountable for fights and takes all the point of even having attack points in the first place. Honestly if I can defend according to this theory right now nobody on my rival list can touch me.

[dudeman]

that's one heck of a random element because with the skill points i'm looking at nearly 9000 attack with my current skill points.

I shouldn't be losing to somebody who has 1500 less defense than my attack. At that point the random element is far too accountable for fights and takes all the point of even having attack points in the first place. Honestly if I can defend according to this theory right now nobody on my rival list can touch me.

Skill points are good, but I wouldn't put too much faith in them. If the defender has any skill points in defense each point should cancel out one of your attack skill points, which leaves plenty of room for the random factor to screw with your chances. It's not until you get several hundred skill points allocated to one category that you will start to notice them making a big difference, and even then you still have to be careful. The random factor may or may not be a positive number, and it may or may not change every fight. Nobody knows because the effect of the random factor isn't displayed anywhere. Just another gamble you take when you think you're about to engage in a fair fight.

[PawnXIIX]

I have 80 skill points in attack. I feel like that's sufficient to take on a player who already is lower than me...

[Hank]

@Hank I understand that item defense is halved when robbing a players building but, recently I ran across a player with no defensive buildings. His defense was 63k and my attack is 40k he had very high level NC's and casinos. I have 52 stamina points and it took over half my points to get 4 wins on the NC's and the same for the casinos. In the same day I found another player with 70k defense with many higher level defensive building, also with high level NC's it only took me 5 points to win 4 times. So, I am not sure how the calculations can be correct.


I think these results line up pretty well with the formulas given by lars. Realize that the 'effective building defense' in the equation is a REALLY small number compared to item defense. If you realize that, then from the rob equation it becomes clear that a majority of ones rob defense is NOT FROM DEFENSE BUILDINGS, but mostly from items and other factors. The fact that you were able to rob the 70K guy easier than the 63K guy is because the 63K guy has much more of his defense coming from items. The 70K player's stats are inflated by the large number of leveled defense buildings. Even though he may have something like 20K in defensive buildings only a really small fraction of that goes towards helping him defend robberies (as shown by white frog and company). Remeber that in the equation, you have to plug in 'effective defense' which is given in the wiki, NOT total defense from the profile, which gets inflated if you have lots of leveled defense buildings.

[Lars]

Money Building defense contribution? What's that?
As I wrote:

Also, money buildings seem to have a build-in defense. There is a number in the game data, higher for the more powerful money buildings. It is not known if the build-in defense scales with the buildings level.

The internal game data lists a defense for each building, ranging from 1 for laundromats to 108 for palm hotels:

Laundromat 1
Pizza Parlor 1
Pawn Shop 2
Gas Station 3
Deli 4
Basketball Court 5
Tattoo Parlor 6
House 13
Diner 18
Gun Shop 20
Techno Club 20
Ice Cream Shop 22
Souvenir Store 22
Barbershop 26
T-shirt Stand 27
Electronics Store 28
Mansion 28
Warehouse 30
Arcade 32
Empire Theater 33
Italian Restaurant 34
Fish Store 35
Chinese Restaurant 36
Jazz Club 36
Clothing Store 38
Bagel Shop 40
Carousel 41
Meat Factory 42
History Museum 44
Cowboy Casino 45
Sports Bar 45
Collection Agency 46
Seafood Restaurant 48
Sushi Bar 48
Shoe Store 50
Dominican Restaurant 51
Movie Theater 52
Wholesale Warehouse 53
Internet Company 54
Comedy Club 55
Fancy Restaurant 55
Modern Art Museum 55
Beachside Inn 56
Brownstone 56
Art House Cinema 57
Flower Shop 58
Chicken and Waffles 59
Loft 60
Beach Nightclub 61
Crematorium 62
Underboss' House 64
Adult Movie Theater 65
Russian Restaurant 66
Modern Loft 68
Smoke Shop 68
French Restaurant 70
Anchor Imports 72
Condos 72
Gaming Parlor 73
Credit Agency 74
Zeus Theater 75
Hotel 76
Office Building 78
Blues Club 80
Church 80
Nightclub 80
Casino 82
Wedding Chapel 86
Upscale Club 90
Rock Cafe 92
Pirate Tavern 97
Gentleman's Club 103
Palm Hotel 108

Nicholost made a nice hypothesis on how the values may be used:


Personally, I think a money's building's defense property is affected by skill points and/or level. So if a money building is robbed, the defense against the robbery would look something like:
actual_defense = (0.5 x player_item_defense) + defensebuilding_defense + (this_buildings_defense x level x skill_point_multiplier)

[Lars]

Thanks for explaining Lars. You bridged the gap in my understanding well.

Thanks! Nice to know that I managed to be comprehensible. Got the suspicion it's not always the case. :-)

[PawnXIIX]

Ohh I thought that the money building defense values were unknown...aha.

Thank you for posting a list though, I don't think I've read this anywhere else

[Dr BoneCrusher]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I think, I have a real handle on how this works now. All of the info is spread all over the place maybe, we can put it in one thread?

[Bala82]

Still not sure whether those building defence is based level 1 or 10?

[PawnXIIX]

Still not sure whether those building defence is based level 1 or 10?

No that's one of the quotes he has. That'll just be a mystery of life I suppose. Everything is so smoke and mirrors that I don't think there'd be a way to test this either :/

Is there a variable in the data MoneyBuildingScaleRate or something?

If not then if there is some sort of scaling then it's done during the final calculations, if scaled at all.

[dudeman]

I still think skill points are used mostly in attack. I would say only for attacks, both when attacking and defending, but I can't prove it, and I can't disprove the claim that they are used in robberies. I just know that I haven't focused on defense skill points, though I do have a few points in defense, and my robbery defense works just fine. You've got to have a pretty decent attack score if you don't want to empty your stamina bar trying to rob me.

Ask Babytway, the second last time she robbed me she told me it took her a lot of stamina to pull it off. The last time she robbed me she posted one green in my news and left. Anyone in the HLs can tell you that successfully fending off a robbery attempt from Babytway is quite the achievement. :o

[jlhy]

Thank you Lars and everyone else contributing to the thread :D