PDA

View Full Version : Does the infirmary work?



Mad
06-12-2012, 08:40 PM
Ok, I know this is a dumb question, but does anyone have any idea how the infirmary actually works?

I know technically it is supposed to reduce your losses by 2% and the additional 2% for every upgrade. But how does this translate in real life. For example, if after a battle I am scheduled to lose an Bradley (which is my current meat shield of choice it seems), would it look to see if there is something with 2% lower value and chose that instead?

Has anyone upgraded the infirmary and has anyone noticed a reduction in losses?

I am trying to decide if its worth building.

JMC
06-12-2012, 08:53 PM
I noticed no decrease in casualties after getting the armed infirmary, the black dragon figher and leveling up my infirmary a bit.

Not sure if the boosts are even working properly when it comes to casualties.

stricker
06-12-2012, 08:57 PM
lol... i've often debates on selling that big hunking meathouse because the cost of real estate doesn't justify the thing!!!

manbeast
06-12-2012, 09:10 PM
you cant tell because they change the casualty rate every day.

stricker
06-12-2012, 09:16 PM
you cant tell because they change the casualty rate every day.

what is a casualty rate??? ...idk, not sure they even exist because i didn't inhale!!! ...how do you define casualty rate???

http://corriganreid.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/bill-hillary-clinton.jpg

Mad
06-12-2012, 09:43 PM
I think part of the problem is implementation -- how does the benefits of the infirmary translate over into MW battle.

For example, let's say after a battle I am scheduled to lose a Bradley 7 attack, 7 defense $35,000.

A 2% reduction is .14 each on the attack and defense and $700 on the cost. So the only way the infirmary can work is to find a replacement unit that meets those reduced values.

Level the infirmary up 3 levels and you have a 6% improvement. On the same Bradley machine that works out to .42 reduction on both attack and defense and a reduction in cost of $2100. I am not sure you can even find a replacement unit that meets that criteria of 6.58 Attack and 6.58 Defense for $32,900 (once the infirmary benefit is calculated in).

So what happens?

It may become a factor at much higher levels when you can loses dozens of units in one battle, but I am not sure it can offer any protection at the lower levels where only a couple units are lost.

But maybe it doesn't calculate it this way. I was just wondering if anyone understood how the infirminary works in an actual MW battle.

albeezy
06-12-2012, 10:24 PM
I noticed no decrease in casualties after getting the armed infirmary, the black dragon figher and leveling up my infirmary a bit.

Not sure if the boosts are even working properly when it comes to casualties.

Ditto on the boost from infirmary and the BDF. I lose 2-5 units every fight/raid unless the other player has less than 5k defense, then I only lose 0-3 with the majority of them falling in the 0-1 range.

Somewhere on the forum I read about a consumption rate (e.g., unit A has a consumption rate of .0017) or something like that. May it just reduces this number by that amount? If that is true, the effects are negligable (e.g., for the .0017 consumption rate unit A, a 2% decrease would make the reduced consumption rate .00166666, if the numbers are rounded to the nears .000x decimal place it would end up back at .0017 LOL That would explain why noone seems to think they work. Hilarious if that is the case. I have a CS degree and could see that happening and being hard to catch).

pirates smirates
06-13-2012, 06:59 AM
Thread necro to get rid of the spam on the homepage

Aidan
06-13-2012, 07:11 AM
Somewhere on the forum I read about a consumption rate (e.g., unit A has a consumption rate of .0017) or something like that. May it just reduces this number by that amount? If that is true, the effects are negligable (e.g., for the .0017 consumption rate unit A, a 2% decrease would make the reduced consumption rate .00166666, if the numbers are rounded to the nears .000x decimal place it would end up back at .0017 LOL That would explain why noone seems to think they work. Hilarious if that is the case. I have a CS degree and could see that happening and being hard to catch).

I think you nailed it. Only explanation i can think of why my casualties are the same if not worse when i have my infirmary at L5 than when it was at L1.

whiskeybravo
06-13-2012, 07:19 AM
Mine hasn't seemed to change my losses at all, but like somebody else said they seem to change the rate all the time anyway so it's pretty much impossible to tell.

mickymacirl
06-13-2012, 07:23 AM
I noticed no decrease in casualties after getting the armed infirmary, the black dragon figher and leveling up my infirmary a bit.

Not sure if the boosts are even working properly when it comes to casualties.

I'd have to agree, I haven't seen any difference at all with those units and the builds at a high rate.

mickymacirl
06-13-2012, 07:26 AM
Mine hasn't seemed to change my losses at all, but like somebody else said they seem to change the rate all the time anyway so it's pretty much impossible to tell.

I can confirm 100% that they change rates and ratios all the time by comparing Funzios plist time stamped app updates.

Interestingly enough they DO change rates and ratios during events. At least they have the last 3 events.

Aidan
06-13-2012, 07:46 AM
I can confirm 100% that they change rates and ratios all the time by comparing Funzios plist time stamped app updates.

Interestingly enough they DO change rates and ratios during events. At least they have the last 3 events.

Its lower during event right?

Mad
06-13-2012, 07:51 AM
Ok I am going to throw this option out, is it possible the infirmary is compensating you partially for your loss, but in a different way.

For example, if you have a level 1 infirmary and lose a Bradley which costs $35,000 (a 2% reduction is $700) and that $700 is given to you as cash. If you lose a Stealth Frigate which costs 275 valor (I think it's called valor) and 2% is 6 valor and you are reimbursed 6 valor.

It would be a small reimbursement (particularly at level 1) and not something you would necessarily notice unless you are looking for it.

mickymacirl
06-13-2012, 08:19 AM
Its lower during event right?

Nod Aidan, sometimes considerably, my valor unit high rate death issues started AFTER an event ended, I believe I'm not the only one with a high death glitch either.

mickymacirl
06-13-2012, 08:21 AM
Ok I am going to throw this option out, is it possible the infirmary is compensating you partially for your loss, but in a different way.

For example, if you have a level 1 infirmary and lose a Bradley which costs $35,000 (a 2% reduction is $700) and that $700 is given to you as cash. If you lose a Stealth Frigate which costs 275 valor (I think it's called valor) and 2% is 6 valor and you are reimbursed 6 valor.

It would be a small reimbursement (particularly at level 1) and not something you would necessarily notice unless you are looking for it.

I'm sorry but I do not think this is happening, at least I haven't noticed it, I will keep an eye out!

On valor, I regularly get 1 valor for attacking someone, I've a few valor boost units including the 40% extra valor so I've no bloody idea how I can get 1 valor for this.

albeezy
06-13-2012, 08:34 AM
Ok I am going to throw this option out, is it possible the infirmary is compensating you partially for your loss, but in a different way.

For example, if you have a level 1 infirmary and lose a Bradley which costs $35,000 (a 2% reduction is $700) and that $700 is given to you as cash. If you lose a Stealth Frigate which costs 275 valor (I think it's called valor) and 2% is 6 valor and you are reimbursed 6 valor.

It would be a small reimbursement (particularly at level 1) and not something you would necessarily notice unless you are looking for it.

If this were to be true, then why say the infirmary reduces casualty rates. Why not just say reimburses you for your loss by X%. I have not noticed a change in valor rewards when losing valor units as compared to fights where I do not lose valor units. Also, if this were true, shouldnt you receive cash for losing cash units? I know that doesnt happen.

Aidan
06-13-2012, 08:54 AM
Its not. MAD is going mad on why funzio released a building that dont work. Lolol 😝
I will still upgrade my infirmary to L10 after i have upgraded all other boosts, money and unit building to L10. Not sure i can make it tho. Best if i put on my will for my son to do it for me.

Mad
06-13-2012, 08:55 AM
If this were to be true, then why say the infirmary reduces casualty rates. Why not just say reimburses you for your loss by X%. I have not noticed a change in valor rewards when losing valor units as compared to fights where I do not lose valor units. Also, if this were true, shouldnt you receive cash for losing cash units? I know that doesnt happen.

I have no idea if this is happening. I am just trying to figure out how the infirmary works before deciding to buy it.

But a 2% financial reimbursement would be the same as a 2% reduction in losses. There would be no difference as far as I can tell, in the end it amounts to the same thing.

I am just trying to figure out how in the world a 2% reduction in losses works if I am scheduled to lose a Bradley after a battle. The Bradley's cost is $35,000 and has a attack/Defense ratio of 7/7. How would it give me a 2% reduction loss in this case? I don't think its possible unless it provides some type of financial reimbursement.

But like I say I am trying to figure out how it works, before buying it. I can see it working better at higher levels where battles can result in dozens of losses.

Mad
06-13-2012, 08:58 AM
Its not. MAD is going mad on why funzio released a building that dont work. Lolol ��
I will still upgrade my infirmary to L10 after i have upgraded all other boosts, money and unit building to L10. Not sure i can make it tho. Best if i put on my will for my son to do it for me.

This is so true. Trying to make sense of this is driving me crazy lol. But I know the other boost buildings seem to work properly. The composite factory has definitely upgraded my defense, for example. So I am trying to figure out the infirmary.

banned eh?
06-13-2012, 09:13 AM
Does it not work like this. (only a thought)

1000 attacks average number of losses before boost 100 (as an example)

2% boost

1000 attacks average number of losses now 98 (2% reduction)

and so on and so on?

albeezy
06-13-2012, 09:20 AM
Somewhere on the forum I read about a consumption rate (e.g., unit A has a consumption rate of .0017) or something like that. May it just reduces this number by that amount? If that is true, the effects are negligable (e.g., for the .0017 consumption rate unit A, a 2% decrease would make the reduced consumption rate .00166666, if the numbers are rounded to the nears .000x decimal place it would end up back at .0017 LOL That would explain why noone seems to think they work. Hilarious if that is the case. I have a CS degree and could see that happening and being hard to catch).

The underlined portion would be a reduction in losses (I think). In other words, if a consumption rate for a unit indicates the likelihood that the unit will be lost in a raid/attack, reducing the consumption rate by 2% would reduce the rate at which that unit is lost by 2%.

Aidan
06-13-2012, 09:21 AM
I think albeezy got it right. All units have their own comsumption rate.
Like for example SH has 0.0075. L10 infirmary will bring it down to 0.00675

Mad
06-13-2012, 09:43 AM
I think albeezy got it right. All units have their own comsumption rate.
Like for example SH has 0.0075. L10 infirmary will bring it down to 0.00675

Hmmm... so that reduction rate would apply to all your units. So if the battle says you are going to lose a unit, really nothing has changed in terms of which one is lost, since your units have seen their consumption rate lowered by the same percentage because of the level of your infirmary.

But I do find it confusing. For example, I attack one person and lose a Bradley and then the next person I attack I lose a Stealth Frigate. I pretty careful who I attack, I generally try to keep the my attack versus their defense ratio pretty good. I can't figure out what factors come into play when determining my losses in the battle.

How are these units chosen for loss? Is it the "consumption rate" mentioned above?

Aidan
06-13-2012, 09:49 AM
Army composition plays a part. If say your army consists of 1000 SH and the other 1000 are loots n cash units, chances for you to lose SH should be higher than other unit.

Here Have a read on this thread.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?17899-explain-probability-of-low-medium-high-casualty-rate

albeezy
06-13-2012, 09:59 AM
I believe that in another post CCMark indicated that each unit is equally likely to be lost in a raid/attack meaning that there is not a ratio of your attack to your rival's defense that indicates you will lose a particular unit vs. another unit. Also, I think he indicated that no matter how much more attack you have compared to a rival's defense you can lose units (not sure if this is completely true because I notice that really weak opponents do not cause me to lose units).

To sum it up, FUNZIO probably has a battle/raid casualty algorithm built into the game code that crunches nubmers and spits out what units, if any, you are going to lose and how many. I would imagine there is a random aspect to those calculations which would explain why multiple attacks on the same player would not yield the same amount of casualties and why the same units are not lost each time.

mickymacirl
06-13-2012, 10:40 AM
I believe that in another post CCMark indicated that each unit is equally likely to be lost in a raid/attack meaning that there is not a ratio of your attack to your rival's defense that indicates you will lose a particular unit vs. another unit. Also, I think he indicated that no matter how much more attack you have compared to a rival's defense you can lose units (not sure if this is completely true because I notice that really weak opponents do not cause me to lose units).

To sum it up, FUNZIO probably has a battle/raid casualty algorithm built into the game code that crunches nubmers and spits out what units, if any, you are going to lose and how many. I would imagine there is a random aspect to those calculations which would explain why multiple attacks on the same player would not yield the same amount of casualties and why the same units are not lost each time.

Amount of units brought to battle make a huge difference, current I'm on low allies because of the glitched cas rates and Funzios seemly lack of interest in explaining the No Cas Glitch. So say I bring 400 units to battle vs someone with 800 units and half my alliance att and def score, I'm far more likely to lose units than fighting someone of equal units or less. Inf building and units with % less cas rates do not seem to make much of a difference.

This also is used in calculation of BP awarded, of that I'm sure.

Oh and I reckon its units you WILL lose rather than units you WON'T lose. Funzio has messed with % allowed_valor_army in the last while, hence everyone losing valor units. This might explain why I'm losing valor units when I don't even bring them to battle.

Aidan
06-13-2012, 10:44 AM
Whats the current consumption rate for valor units now micky?

albeezy
06-13-2012, 10:48 AM
This might explain why I'm losing valor units when I don't even bring them to battle.

Gotta love it! I am trying not to attack when there isnt an event going on, and even during events, only if I have no energy and need to find a crate before my timer expires. I have a $450k IPH (and yes I got my EBD without having to send a ticket), but my IPH cannot support the losses I incur when regularly attacking/raiding

stricker
06-13-2012, 12:11 PM
so... should i go ahead and sell that big hunk of bldg to make room for my nanos???