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View Full Version : Attack vs Defense is broken



Neonjoe
06-08-2012, 12:26 PM
I have 6649 defense in my profile right now, all my defense buildings are level 1 except for 1 level 2 gatling tower, so my actual defense is pretty much sitting right at what it shows in my profile. I have 60 defense skill points allocated in my profile as well.

Someone just attacked me with a 5-5 record. They are showing 4966 attack in their profile.

Why in the hell is the game set up so that someone with 75% of my attribute total can go toe to toe with me in battle? This guy would have to have an incredibly high attack point allocation to even come near me on the total score, since he'd have to be over 60 points in attack just to break even with me. I also looked at his inventory and he does not have a black widow like I do. I think the combat system is broken as ****, there's too much of a random number coefficient involved. I think it's crap that I can set myself up as best as possible with all the best stuff, and still lose a fight thanks to a **** roll in the combat system.

sexkitteh
06-08-2012, 12:29 PM
You know.... the thing that sucks (and I say this because it happens to me once in a while) is you don't REALLY know your true defense... because you don't get a copy of the attack report.

I've asked the people that have attacked me to tell me what my true defense is... but they never do :(

What level are you? maybe we can help each other out :/

I would love to know what my true D is... because like you, I only have lvl1 defense buildings and 1 turret lvl2.

Neonjoe
06-08-2012, 12:32 PM
i'm about 30 levels over you so it won't work right now, sorry :(. but yeah i really want to know what my total is cuz when i'm losing 160k to someone that has 1700 less attack than my profile shows defense, i think it's garbage

sexkitteh
06-08-2012, 12:34 PM
Are they robbing your wallet or are they robbing your buildings?

Cause robbing is easier than attacking...

I think you speak of attack though because I've run into the same issue... odd players I've beaten over and over and they attack back with 2k less attack than my D and they manage to squeeze in a few hits...

I hope that 30lvls ahead of me you are banking your cash.... 7k is way low....

Swingle007
06-08-2012, 12:34 PM
Might as well prepare yourself now for how much worse it gets in the future....my 50k attack goes through nearly 70k defense in hoods with regularity, and vice versa. As the numbers get larger so does the inability to figure it out. All you can do is raise attack and defense as much as you possibly can and keep your fingers crossed with every interaction.

sexkitteh
06-08-2012, 12:36 PM
Might as well prepare yourself now for how much worse it gets in the future....my 50k attack goes through nearly 70k defense in hoods with regularity, and vice versa. As the numbers get larger so does the inability to figure it out. All you can do is raise attack and defense as much as you possibly can and keep your fingers crossed with every interaction.
interesting...

so your battle report attacking a player (not robbing) is 50k vs 70k? = win?

Neonjoe
06-08-2012, 12:38 PM
Are they robbing your wallet or are they robbing your buildings?

Cause robbing is easier than attacking...

I think you speak of attack though because I've run into the same issue... odd players I've beaten over and over and they attack back with 2k less attack than my D and they manage to squeeze in a few hits...

I hope that 30lvls ahead of me you are banking your cash.... 7k is way low....

they're attacking, i understand the robbery estimation is that only 50% of your equipment defense is applied in robbery calculations.

about the banking, you don't know what my mob level is, 7k could be stupidly high ;)

DenZ1
06-08-2012, 12:38 PM
interesting...

so your battle report attacking a player (not robbing) is 50k vs 70k? = win?

Can happen in player has tons of Bodyguard agencies...

Silvio
06-08-2012, 12:39 PM
I thought it was fairly straight forward. I'm sure there are some fine details I gloss over, and will be corrected, but isn't your defense as such :

Rob defense = 0.5 times item defense plus building defense (base plus half upgraded total)
Attack defense = item defense.

So if you have 9000 in item defense and 2000 in building defense, then your rob d is 6,500 and attack d is 9,000.

Listed d is item defense, correct?

Of course there is a randomness factor that is the wild card . . . .

sexkitteh
06-08-2012, 12:39 PM
they're attacking, i understand the robbery estimation is that only 50% of your equipment defense is applied in robbery calculations.

about the banking, you don't know what my mob level is, 7k could be stupidly high ;)

Fair enough...

Is it possible the guy added players to hit you?

A forum member did that... found a player with low mafia count - quickly added like 300 players robbed him blind and then dropped mafia again...

Johnny70
06-08-2012, 12:40 PM
your real defense is going to be about 1000 lower than advertised the higher you level the worse it gets. that plus I know of at least three people who dumped almost all of their skill points into attack by "mistake" early in the game... turns out it might not have been that big of mistake.... nobody really knows, the skill point system is the only mystery left in the game

sexkitteh
06-08-2012, 12:41 PM
Can happen in player has tons of Bodyguard agencies...

but does it show in the battle report as such?

Will a TRUE 50k attack penetrate a TRUE 70k defense?

sexkitteh
06-08-2012, 12:46 PM
I thought it was fairly straight forward. I'm sure there are some fine details I gloss over, and will be corrected, but isn't your defense as such :

Rob defense = 0.5 times item defense plus building defense (base plus half upgraded total)
Attack defense = item defense.

So if you have 9000 in item defense and 2000 in building defense, then your rob d is 6,500 and attack d is 9,000.

Listed d is item defense, correct?

Of course there is a randomness factor that is the wild card . . . .

No I believe this was covered before - building defense helps against attacks and robberies.

Swingle007
06-08-2012, 12:54 PM
I have over 200 points paid into attack skill so not sure how they factor in...robbing is definitely easier then direct player vs. player attacking. Not saying I win every single rob/fight when they have 20+% more in a category, but it is certainly possible to break through and win a robbery and/or a fight a few times out of 10 even when it appears you are drastically overmatched number wise. Roll the dice and see how it goes! When I enter a hood against a guy that shows he has 72k defense and he has nightclubs, office buildings, etc waiting to be picked up I make a run at it. Might miss the first rob and find his true defense is only 66k. At that point I keep attempting to hit the buildings and find that I will eventually get through and get that cash as long as I'm willing to absorb two or three losses per successful attempt. It's worth it for sure if the buildings pay well. :-)

Swingle007
06-08-2012, 01:10 PM
As a follow up to the mention of bodyguard buildings above, they are indeed absolute garbage! I spent 25g each for a total of 48 of them at one point. All were a minimum of lvl 7 and a few were up to lvl 8. It should have been around 17k defense that they provided me in exchange for the tens of millions of in game dollars I spent upgrading them, but that defense was just a sham. It showed up on screen in my defense numbers alright, but when I would get attacked my true defense would shrink like 20,000! I sold them down to 14 after feeling really taken advantage of, and had a great opportunity presented to me to find out what those 14 really provided when a friend offered to attack me and give true defense and then attack again after I sold them. We run the experiment and I found my true defense fell just a little over 500 points upon me selling the 14 that supposedly provided nearly 5k defense to me. My advice is to avoid adding them at all cost and engage people who own them if your numbers are close, as you will certainly come out on top when you see their TRUE numbers after your assault. Hope this keeps somebody else from being taken like I was. Lost my behind when I sold them too, as I got like 50 or 60k back for each of them after spending a ton. Guess the get 50% back on your investment doesn't pertain to gold buildings, defense, buildings, or some combination of the two. :-(

murf
06-08-2012, 01:11 PM
I have 6649 defense in my profile right now, all my defense buildings are level 1 except for 1 level 2 gatling tower, so my actual defense is pretty much sitting right at what it shows in my profile. I have 60 defense skill points allocated in my profile as well.

Someone just attacked me with a 5-5 record. They are showing 4966 attack in their profile.

Why in the hell is the game set up so that someone with 75% of my attribute total can go toe to toe with me in battle? This guy would have to have an incredibly high attack point allocation to even come near me on the total score, since he'd have to be over 60 points in attack just to break even with me. I also looked at his inventory and he does not have a black widow like I do. I think the combat system is broken as ****, there's too much of a random number coefficient involved. I think it's crap that I can set myself up as best as possible with all the best stuff, and still lose a fight thanks to a **** roll in the combat system.

One thing I'm not sure about is if they lose to you 10 x's, I think it only shows up in the news feed as one lose...so his 5 wins may have taken him 30 hits....I don't think you know that or not.

DenZ1
06-08-2012, 01:15 PM
but does it show in the battle report as such?

Will a TRUE 50k attack penetrate a TRUE 70k defense?

No. Only random win but very unlikely. When it past 10K in difference chances of getting a win is next to none.
Rebberies is different story

cookie monster
06-08-2012, 01:39 PM
I have 6649 defense in my profile right now, all my defense buildings are level 1 except for 1 level 2 gatling tower, so my actual defense is pretty much sitting right at what it shows in my profile. I have 60 defense skill points allocated in my profile as well.

Someone just attacked me with a 5-5 record. They are showing 4966 attack in their profile.

Why in the hell is the game set up so that someone with 75% of my attribute total can go toe to toe with me in battle? This guy would have to have an incredibly high attack point allocation to even come near me on the total score, since he'd have to be over 60 points in attack just to break even with me. I also looked at his inventory and he does not have a black widow like I do. I think the combat system is broken as ****, there's too much of a random number coefficient involved. I think it's crap that I can set myself up as best as possible with all the best stuff, and still lose a fight thanks to a **** roll in the combat system.

I understand your anger, but upgrade something. Sheesh.

white frog
06-08-2012, 03:49 PM
The math so far in this thread is wrong. You guys are still basing your defense on the old way, as was I until a few weeks ago... The formulas have all changed! When defending against robberies, your defense will equal 100% effective def from buildings + 100% (not the old 50%) from equip + skill point allocation + random element. When defending against attacks, defense is the same except 50% effective defense from buildings.

When I discovered that things had changed I spent days doing experiments to verify the accuracy of the above formula, and can tell you with certainty that it is true!