Hero strength and end game stats

[emcee]

Does hero strength have any bearing in PVP? Is it just effective for PVE/doing map quest/killing monsters?

If that is the case hero strength skill investment would be a waste imo for end game as army attack and army defense would have been a wiser choice.

I've read a thread about farming equips and being able to kill monsters in one attack with high hero strength investment. I understand the merits for this strategy. However, my camping strategy/play style allows me to buy the best equips so farming at the moment is not an ideal strategy.

Anyone can shed light on skill points allocation and what they feel is the optimal skills build for end game dominance outside of gem investment.

[Njwmrb]

Yes it is purely for PVE but to purchase high end armor and weapons is not cost effective at all. The best weapon you can purchase is 17 attack and 18 defense and it costs 19k. Why would you buy 100's of those when you can get better equipment for free?

[Freekizh]

Emcee, this is a very good question. Those who haven't bothered to do this analysis or undertaken some kind of basic calculation to evaluate this before allocating their skill points is flying blind.

This is what I wrote in my guide way back:

"At the point where you are satisfied with your current rate of loot accumulation, or unhappy with the quality of loot compared to what you can buy from the store, then add your skill points to defense instead. At some point there will be diminishing returns - I am not sure having 90 Hero attack points at level 50 is that much better than having 65 Hero attack points."

By doing a simple spreadsheet calculation whereby you assume a certain amount of XP per level, loot drop assumptions and hero point v zero-hero point calculation you can work out a break-even range to what skill points allocated to defense/attack must be worth in order to balance the game. Yes I have done this calculation - it took me 20mins. Then you need to triangulate what skill points are worth - this is why I love this game :) It makes you work for the benefits. It is no coincidence that loot value tapers off just like skill point value as discussed in CC boards! Also because of the high quality loot - you will find that defense and attack skill points therefore must have a higher value than in MW :)

Those who allocate zero and especially moderate hero points are not as badly off as you would think because of the effect of hero weapons and armor upgrades. You can also work out the economic edge you must have in order to bridge any difference in loot value in order to catchup: those who follow a PvE/Hero quest strategy usually have to upgrade unit buildings and armies since they level a lot, reducing their optimal money building upgrade timeline. This is the delta that allows you to catchup if you are efficient.

[el_gringo]

The thing is with 'one hit monsters' is that you just don't know.

There a number of monsters I can kill in one go on a number of maps - but if any of them attack me, they become a two hit monster, so it seems theres little point in going after these guys.

[emcee]

I don't really care if I can one hit kill a monster. A couple more taps and experience is not a problem as I don't level up during non event times.
I play for end game and if hero strength does not figure into end game then imo its a waste.
Granted there might be limited loot items from monsters that I can get more of with 1 hit kills but chances are these items are not end game items anyways. Only participating in these events may get such items or at least comparable drops.
My economy will buy the best cash items which may not be as good as some pve drops but my strategy is not based on full alliance/army at the moment. Limited alliance with best cash, end or near end event loot and defense buildings should win most. This strategy has worked very well for me in CC and MW with near perfect stats/results to date.

[Njwmrb]

Not really sure how camping is playing for end game, but everyone is entitled to their own style of play.

[emcee]

Not really sure how camping is playing for end game, but everyone is entitled to their own style of play.
My CC level 61 account has 3 event end items and probably a fourth for this economy event. Most likely top .1% economy and havoc minigun with 30% less upgrade cost is a huge game changer. I actively play like everyone else during these events. Earn more respect than most as I basically target high respect to experience ratio buildings and only during non event times do I go into camping mode again. However, with the frequency of events these days I am playing more than camping and my inventory/arsenal is being populated with end game and better than end game respect items.

Back to your original post, since I am not an active player during non events and with low alliance my economy which is hovering around 6k/hr can easily buy the best items without further leveling through non guarantee pve loot drops.
By the way I am level 17 now.

[Njwmrb]

My CC level 61 account has 3 event end items and probably a fourth for this economy event. Most likely top .1% economy and havoc minigun with 30% less upgrade cost is a huge game changer. I actively play like everyone else during these events. Earn more respect than most as I basically target high respect to experience ratio buildings and only during non event times do I go into camping mode again. However, with the frequency of events these days I am playing more than camping and my inventory/arsenal is being populated with end game and better than end game respect items.

Back to your original post, since I am not an active player during non events and with low alliance my economy which is hovering around 6k/hr can easily buy the best items without further leveling through non guarantee pve loot drops.
By the way I am level 17 now.

I don't play CC so that first paragraph was nonsense to me, I'm just saying that when you decide to ally up those items are going to be very costly when you could get them for free.

[Bea]

I am not getting anywhere near enough loot per level in PvE to equip 5 allies, ie 15 weapons and 15 armours. So far managing about 2 allies per level, and have still needed to 'top up' loot with store equipment.

[emcee]

Emcee, this is a very good question. Those who haven't bothered to do this analysis or undertaken some kind of basic calculation to evaluate this before allocating their skill points is flying blind.

This is what I wrote in my guide way back:

"At the point where you are satisfied with your current rate of loot accumulation, or unhappy with the quality of loot compared to what you can buy from the store, then add your skill points to defense instead. At some point there will be diminishing returns - I am not sure having 90 Hero attack points at level 50 is that much better than having 65 Hero attack points."

By doing a simple spreadsheet calculation whereby you assume a certain amount of XP per level, loot drop assumptions and hero point v zero-hero point calculation you can work out a break-even range to what skill points allocated to defense/attack must be worth in order to balance the game. Yes I have done this calculation - it took me 20mins. Then you need to triangulate what skill points are worth - this is why I love this game :) It makes you work for the benefits. It is no coincidence that loot value tapers off just like skill point value as discussed in CC boards! Also because of the high quality loot - you will find that defense and attack skill points therefore must have a higher value than in MW :)

Those who allocate zero and especially moderate hero points are not as badly off as you would think because of the effect of hero weapons and armor upgrades. You can also work out the economic edge you must have in order to bridge any difference in loot value in order to catchup: those who follow a PvE/Hero quest strategy usually have to upgrade unit buildings and armies since they level a lot, reducing their optimal money building upgrade timeline. This is the delta that allows you to catchup if you are efficient.

Freekizh I haven't done enough research into skill points but if Njwmrb said its true about hero strength then any investment of limited skill points in this category would not make sense. Like CC and MW I'm allocating most if not all skill points into attack. Whatever the attack skills multiplier it will make some level of difference in the future once sufficient points are allocated. Defense can be supplemented by upgraded buildings so imo any investment in this category would be a waste as well as hero strength.
I have only 10 stamina and don't anticipate more at this time.
If KA eventually will have 200 level cap I should have a total of 588 army attack.
Would like to hear from seasoned players regarding this type of end game build.

[Njwmrb]

You legitimately expect to get to Lvl 200? When you've been playing 2+ months (I'm assuming since you're from Canada and you have played previous Funzio games) and are only at lvl 17? I don't even expect to ever get to lvl 200 and I have been actively lvling up since I started. And even if you do I'm telling you thats a horrible strategy, but do what you want. I don't care.

And @ Freekizh how did you in your ultimate formula for game domination assign a value to skills allocated to attack and defense when no one knows their actual bonus?

[CounterSniper]

KA already has a level 200 cap.

[Freekizh]

Freekizh I haven't done enough research into skill points but if Njwmrb said its true about hero strength then any investment of limited skill points in this category would not make sense. Like CC and MW I'm allocating most if not all skill points into attack. Whatever the attack skills multiplier it will make some level of difference in the future once sufficient points are allocated. Defense can be supplemented by upgraded buildings so imo any investment in this category would be a waste as well as hero strength.
I have only 10 stamina and don't anticipate more at this time.
If KA eventually will have 200 level cap I should have a total of 588 army attack.
Would like to hear from seasoned players regarding this type of end game build.

You are wrong, because you are assuming loot will always have lesser or equal value than the store. Store value has NEVER been of higher value, and even now there are weapons that the store does not have ir you need to buy gem items. Even a small difference in loot adds up over 6000 weapons and armor. So the rate of loot accumulation is important as well, especially if drop rate for high end loot falls away. You need to do the calculations in order to be PRECISE and not just rely on "experience" though it helps - how can you say attack skill is worth so much when you do not know their value as precisely as hero? You need to calculate the value proposition before determine if there is an arbitrage.

The rate of loot accumulation for moderate hero skills is still good and is worthwhile, and is valuable TIME SAVING also. There is time value of money. Your gain for the modest hero points i allocate that you put into attack i can also upgrade my defense IMO, and is outweighed by my higher loot accumulation for a very long time. So even at the very limit your edge is not significant if any for my 33 hero points while my rate of accumulation is double yours while not taking into account the time you are camping.

Then the argument comes down to def v Att skill point allocation. But that is another one.

[The_Red]

KA already has a level 200 cap.

which has been shown to be movable....

[CounterSniper]

which has been shown to be movable....

Yeah, from 50 to 75 then to 200.

Maybe higher? Possible

[Njwmrb]

It was my understanding that no one knew the actual value of a point added to attack or defense. If you do know please share.

[Njwmrb]

Well people do know in CC and other forums, and its possible estimate and I do have a range of values which have been tested and reasonably accurate, but I sure as fugging hell won't tell u.

Because you don't f*cking know and you're pretentious and annoying.

[The_Red]

Because you don't f*cking know and your pretentious and annoying.

**you're**

[Njwmrb]

**you're**

Thank you professor

[The_Red]

Thank you professor

your welcome. ;)

[Njwmrb]

One day when you do grow up, and read whats been written and take things seriously and do your research, then maybe just maybe, you might get somewhere Mr CaNT.

I'm going to medical school next year on the navy's budget... but yeah maybe if I do more calculations for a free game on my phone I'll get somewhere in life.

[Njwmrb]

your welcome. ;)

purposeful?

[The_Red]

purposeful?

ya... it was in jest.

[Njwmrb]

Learn some philosophy too - you need it. And I put you exactly where you are on the tree Mr CaNT.

Your style of debate is anything but philosophical, you should argue to seek greater knowledge not to make things personal.

[The_Red]

Perhaps y'all should just agree to disagree vs continuing the discussion.... being this butthurt over a game is a little much. :)

[Njwmrb]

I make it personal for those people who are really really ignorant and argue about every little constructive thing to get it through their thick skull. I am nice to those people who are nice. I'm pretty symmetric.

No you get frustrated when legitimate holes are poked in your argument and you result to insults like a child.

And yes you are very friendly to an average person that hops on here to say hi and I think you contribute a lot to this forum community. I just think that you are a little immature when someone has differing opinions.

[erik41141]

Im heavily into hero attack and i can say it really helps. I have pretty much no army atk/def stated and saved all my points for hero attack. From my experience, its not about 1 hitting monsters, its all about the 2 hit. Most often for your level if you are 1 hitting a monster it isnt dropping good loot (atleast for my level) so i have about 90 strength for my char and its fantastic. Boss hunting is easy, im not going back and mastering all maps, and im getting level 5 mastery for dragons den. ALSO a great strategy i use to buy high-level buildings is spawn all the bosses on a variety of maps, get them all down to 1 hit, if i want to take the time do the same to the mobs on the map. and then fill my bank, wait for collection of my silos and high yeild buildings, slay all the monsters, then purchase the building/upgrade. Theres only a window of about 1 min where people could potentially attack me, but i have never had that happen. Thats how i got manor at level 30 w/o buying gold

[Njwmrb]

Im heavily into hero attack and i can say it really helps. I have pretty much no army atk/def stated and saved all my points for hero attack. From my experience, its not about 1 hitting monsters, its all about the 2 hit. Most often for your level if you are 1 hitting a monster it isnt dropping good loot (atleast for my level) so i have about 90 strength for my char and its fantastic. Boss hunting is easy, im not going back and mastering all maps, and im getting level 5 mastery for dragons den. ALSO a great strategy i use to buy high-level buildings is spawn all the bosses on a variety of maps, get them all down to 1 hit, if i want to take the time do the same to the mobs on the map. and then fill my bank, wait for collection of my silos and high yeild buildings, slay all the monsters, then purchase the building/upgrade. Theres only a window of about 1 min where people could potentially attack me, but i have never had that happen. Thats how i got manor at level 30 w/o buying gold

Manors not unlocked until lvl 41, so that probably didn't happen. I agree with your strategy though.

[Freekizh]

Im heavily into hero attack and i can say it really helps. I have pretty much no army atk/def stated and saved all my points for hero attack. From my experience, its not about 1 hitting monsters, its all about the 2 hit. Most often for your level if you are 1 hitting a monster it isnt dropping good loot (atleast for my level) so i have about 90 strength for my char and its fantastic. Boss hunting is easy, im not going back and mastering all maps, and im getting level 5 mastery for dragons den. ALSO a great strategy i use to buy high-level buildings is spawn all the bosses on a variety of maps, get them all down to 1 hit, if i want to take the time do the same to the mobs on the map. and then fill my bank, wait for collection of my silos and high yeild buildings, slay all the monsters, then purchase the building/upgrade. Theres only a window of about 1 min where people could potentially attack me, but i have never had that happen. Thats how i got manor at level 30 w/o buying gold

Erik I agree with all your points, especially on 2 hit etc.

What Emcee is trying to get at is this:

If a camper is able to build a really large economy, say 30K IPH, they can at some stage afford to buy good quality equipment, and if that was the case, equalize with those with high hero. Therefore if that was true, why not allocate all your points to Att or Def skills.

That is what the debate is about. The debate is purely theoretical until maybe 6-12months time when economies do get that large. However I am already starting to buy pretty expensive equipment nowadays to catchup.

[emcee]

You legitimately expect to get to Lvl 200? When you've been playing 2+ months (I'm assuming since you're from Canada and you have played previous Funzio games) and are only at lvl 17? I don't even expect to ever get to lvl 200 and I have been actively lvling up since I started. And even if you do I'm telling you thats a horrible strategy, but do what you want. I don't care.

And @ Freekizh how did you in your ultimate formula for game domination assign a value to skills allocated to attack and defense when no one knows their actual bonus?
I'm level 20 now and with these events you can't help but level. Unfortunately you don't grasp the concept of low alliance, outfitting with decent items and end game units from events.
Chacun a son gout.

[emcee]

You are wrong, because you are assuming loot will always have lesser or equal value than the store. Store value has NEVER been of higher value, and even now there are weapons that the store does not have ir you need to buy gem items. Even a small difference in loot adds up over 6000 weapons and armor. So the rate of loot accumulation is important as well, especially if drop rate for high end loot falls away.
I've never assumed that was the case especially as an experienced CC and MW player
The key is alliance bracketing. Since I am not going with max alliance at this time I still have the same opportunity as everyone else to loot items but my primary stats increase should come from event items for now coupled with best cash items and units.
We can both agree that investment in army attack and or defense have its merits especially considering end game play.

[Freekizh]

We can both agree that investment in army attack and or defense have its merits especially considering end game play.

This is easy to agree to - its more about how much you should allocate to hero was the point. Putting zero is nickel and diming for a few statistically insignificant att skill points that wont even overcome the random element. I suppose you haven't tried to mine the higher maps yet with your 1 hero point where some bosses take a day with high hero points, and we'll probably all have an army of dragons by the time you get to the end-game and equalize with my weapons and armor, and all the good drops have been nerfed out.

[Njwmrb]

This is easy to agree to - its more about how much you should allocate to hero was the point. Putting zero is nickel and diming for a few statistically insignificant att skill points that wont even overcome the random element. I suppose you haven't tried to mine the higher maps yet with your 1 hero point where some bosses take a day with high hero points, and we'll probably all have an army of dragons by the time you get to the end-game and equalize with my weapons and armor.

Agreed, how about you pop in in another 2 months and we'll see how that plan of yours is coming along Emcee. I'm not sure what the point of this thread was, you asked for advice from experienced players and then when you got it you disputed it. Good luck.

[erik41141]

Thats how i got manor at level 30 w/o buying gold O yea not manor that ****s 250k i dont even have that still, the circle one. But i didnt start upgrading vault for awhile so to me 8k was a huge deal lol, had unvaulted gold for days back then

[ShawnBB]

haven't checked forum for a while...

Emcee, to be honest with you, camper has no point talking about end game.
I can't count how many times every legit forum member mentioned about this.

If you decided to camp, then you choose to compete with the players have less game time consuming but same level.
Players who have same time consuming as you are WAY OVER your power, which means you will never have a chance in end game.

It is easy to keep a superior IpH like campers while normally level up. Pve gives you incredible amount of end equips which is actually saving you money. Ignore a major part of the game source will only fall behind in terms of end game, no exception.

Working your way up by fully load everything best for each Allie will only make you to the middle game, the up tier strength always growing with a faster speed.
years later you might get everything done and satisfied in the very end game, but that is after thousands of other fully loaded players quit, lost interest and move on to their new life.

Everyone has a game life I believe,could be few months or few years. Even the game itself has. High game play efficiency is still the winner after all.
Especially in forum discussions,unlike CC has mafia unlock building advantage, campers in KA gets no respect at all.

[erik41141]

Just for a frame of reference for u guys im lvl 65 right now with 85 hero strength

[Freekizh]

I got queries from my allies how I did the calculations for skill points. This is the step through: the key idea is to ask the question - how much MORE loot would I get if I used all Hero v. Zero Hero points for each level.

In a spreadsheet do the following (I did this only for level 1-50):

* Assume a certain increasing XP value per level (say 300-2000).
* Assume "All Hero" puts all his skills into Hero, and that at each level has a certain weapon+armor attack score value (I assumed 4A-40A) and add this value to his hero score to arrive at a total attack value. Take 75% of this attack value. The "No Hero" player has only 1 Hero.
* Assume a HP per average monster for each level, and calculate the number of kills per monster for Hero and Non-Hero player. Assume a XP per hit for each level (you can use Fisk's Loot/Monster sheet to help calibrate). From this you can approximate how many average monsters you can kill per level since you have limited XP - Hero will kill more than Non-Hero as skill points increase (about 2-3x more).
* Assume a drop rate (I used 30%) for each monster, and an average weapon profile for each drop. From this you can approx. how many weapons for All Hero and No Hero player, as well as how much Att and Def they are expected to accumulate for each level.
* Lets say after you do all these calculations and by level 50 the All Hero has 10,000D and the No Hero has 2,000D, then the difference therefore is 8,000D. Calculate the same for attack (I think attack weapon drops are harder but lets say its similar).
* To balance the game you cant have All Hero getting too far ahead of the No Hero who puts say 50/50 into Att or Def skills. With a total of 150 skill points - lets say your average No Hero puts 75 points into Def and 75 into Att. To balance the game I would value def skill points as = 8000/75=100D. I am not saying these are my numbers :).

Now thats the equalization theory. How do you test this number in practice. Those who have tried in MW would've found it very hard in practice since there is great diversity in skill point allocation in MW, but in KA its very much easier as a lot of folks go extreme All Hero. All you need to do is identify those who are likely to go All Hero by looking at kill count - those with extreme kill count are very likely to go all Hero, and therefore are most likely to have zero Att or Def skills. These are the guys should should attack to test the model.

First you have to understand what goes into your profile attack and defense score (I did a reconciliation), e.g., does it include defense buildings - and make the necessary mental adjustment. If you have a decent Att skill point allocation, start by attacking players with equal adjusted defense value (make sure you taken into account hidden building defense and boost buildings but if just level 1 dont worry too much).
* Now if you have 50 attack skills and you think they are worth 100 each, then you expect to have a 5000 att advantage, but NO CERTAINTY of winning due to the random element.
* Attack the player and see if you win consistently - say 2/3 or 3/4.
* If the random element has a symmetric probability mass function, then when you attack a All Hero rival with adjusted defense about 5000 points higher than your profile attack, on average you should get 50/50 win loss. If this is the case then you are close to calculating skill point value and validating the underlying model value you did before.
* Likewise if you get a much stronger player who repeatedly attacks you and loses (they often cant believe it and will attack again) because you have defense skill points allocated - this also validates it further by establishing boundaries to the value of the skill points.
* Its better to have a model otherwise you gotta do this for each level, as you can see skill points MUST change for each level to equalize.

Now I writing this to explain my approach - I am NOT interesting in people picking "holes" in this for the sake of showing everyone how stupid or argumentative they are. However I am interested if people have found a better or more robust way to do this.

[Altz]

I got queries from my allies how I did the calculations for skill points. This is the step through: the key idea is to ask the question - how much MORE loot would I get if I used all Hero v. Zero Hero points for each level.

In a spreadsheet do the following (I did this only for level 1-50):

* Assume a certain increasing XP value per level (say 300-2000).
* Assume "All Hero" puts all his skills into Hero, and that at each level has a certain weapon+armor attack score value (I assumed 4A-40A) and add this value to his hero score to arrive at a total attack value. Take 75% of this attack value. The "No Hero" player has only 1 Hero.
* Assume a HP per average monster for each level, and calculate the number of kills per monster for Hero and Non-Hero player. Assume a XP per hit for each level (you can use Fisk's Loot/Monster sheet to help calibrate). From this you can approximate how many average monsters you can kill per level since you have limited XP - Hero will kill more than Non-Hero as skill points increase (about 2-3x more).
* Assume a drop rate (I used 30%) for each monster, and an average weapon profile for each drop. From this you can approx. how many weapons for All Hero and No Hero player, as well as how much Att and Def they are expected to accumulate for each level.
* Lets say after you do all these calculations and by level 50 the All Hero has 10,000D and the No Hero has 2,000D, then the difference therefore is 8,000D. Calculate the same for attack (I think attack weapon drops are harder but lets say its similar).
* To balance the game you cant have All Hero getting too far ahead of the No Hero who puts say 50/50 into Att or Def skills. With a total of 150 skill points - lets say your average No Hero puts 75 points into Def and 75 into Att. To balance the game I would value def skill points as = 8000/75=100D. I am not saying these are my numbers :).

Now thats the equalization theory. How do you test this number in practice. Those who have tried in MW would've found it very hard in practice since there is great diversity in skill point allocation in MW, but in KA its very much easier as a lot of folks go extreme All Hero. All you need to do is identify those who are likely to go All Hero by looking at kill count - those with extreme kill count are very likely to go all Hero, and therefore are most likely to have zero Att or Def skills. These are the guys should should attack to test the model.

First you have to understand what goes into your profile attack and defense score (I did a reconciliation), e.g., does it include defense buildings - and make the necessary mental adjustment. If you have a decent Att skill point allocation, start by attacking players with equal adjusted defense value (make sure you taken into account hidden building defense and boost buildings but if just level 1 dont worry too much).
* Now if you have 50 attack skills and you think they are worth 100 each, then you expect to have a 5000 att advantage, but NO CERTAINTY of winning due to the random element.
* Attack the player and see if you win consistently - say 2/3 or 3/4.
* If the random element has a symmetric probability mass function, then when you attack a All Hero rival with adjusted defense about 5000 points higher than your profile attack, on average you should get 50/50 win loss. If this is the case then you are close to calculating skill point value and validating the underlying model value you did before.
* Likewise if you get a much stronger player who repeatedly attacks you and loses (they often cant believe it and will attack again) because you have defense skill points allocated - this also validates it further by establishing boundaries to the value of the skill points.
* Its better to have a model otherwise you gotta do this for each level, as you can see skill points MUST change for each level to equalize.

Now I writing this to explain my approach - I am NOT interesting in people picking "holes" in this for the sake of showing everyone how stupid or argumentative they are. However I am interested if people have found a better or more robust way to do this.

Whats your point? :)

[Freekizh]

Whats your point? :)

Too late Altz. I don't know anymore .. I am drinking beers and watching the football LOL

Guess the point is that here is an approach if you wanna work out how much your hero, att and defense points are worth to you before you start allocating them in directly comparable terms (A/D value).

Of course if you have a loot glitch with 100% drop it's a no brainier :)

[Altz]

Does hero strength have any bearing in PVP? Is it just effective for PVE/doing map quest/killing monsters?

If that is the case hero strength skill investment would be a waste imo for end game as army attack and army defense would have be a wiser choice.

I've read a thread about farming equips and being able to kill monsters in one attack with high hero strength investment. I understand the merits for this strategy. However, my camping strategy/play style allows me to buy the best equips so farming at the moment is not an ideal strategy.

Anyone can shed light on skill points allocation and what they feel is the optimal skills build for end game dominance outside of gem investment.

Kill monsters faster(energy wise)> more lewts > more munnies > more A/D. No point camping in this game.

[Altz]

Too late Altz. I don't know anymore .. I am drinking beers and watching the football LOL

OH! I think i got your point... Skill point allocations is determined by players(NO DUH). Lol. What im saying is, the most effective wayfor end game stats, are max hero strength. Not an opinion, but fact. Campers will only achieve high income, whilst non campers can achieve high iph, lots of munnies, more lewts, more honor, more etc. to sumit all up, more powerful.

[Freekizh]

OH! I think i got your point... Skill point allocations is determined by players(NO DUH). Lol. What im saying is, the most effective wayfor end game stats, are max hero strength. Not an opinion, but fact. Campers will only achieve high income, whilst non campers can achieve high iph, lots of munnies, more lewts, more honor, more etc. to sumit all up, more powerful.

Actually I disagree with you there. This is saying that if you decide to allocate some to A and D you won't be worse off.

You can work out how uh more loot you are getting with hero skills. And estimate what A/D is worth. Now if one becomes more valuable than the other (e.g., loot value decreases or drop rate decreases) the balance changes. You just gotta have a view how much each is worth.

Don't forget just because I don't allocate all my skills to hero doesn't mean I am not collecting loot too. Your rate is better..but how much better? This is a means to objectively compare is all I'm saying rather than..."I think my way is the best".

[Altz]

Too late Altz. I don't know anymore .. I am drinking beers and watching the football LOL

Guess the point is that here is an approach if you wanna work out how much your hero, att and defense points are worth to you before you start allocating them in directly comparable terms (A/D value).

Of course if you have a loot glitch with 100% drop it's a no brainier :)

Yups, it all goes back to loot drop rate. It can change anytime, no doubt. But the current loot drop rates arent that bad, so max hero strength is the way to go.

PS: i got 109 hero strength +32 weapon attack +17armor attack, and i max dmg on pve is 117. Which i feel ripped off pretty bad.

[Altz]

Actually I disagree with you there. This is saying that if you decide to allocate some to A and D you won't be worse off.

You can work out how uh more loot you are getting with hero skills. And estimate what A/D is worth. Now if one becomes more valuable than the other (e.g., loot value decreases or drop rate decreases) the balance changes. You just gotta have a view how much each is worth.

Yeah true. Would you be KA's hero and experiment for us all, how much the attack/defense skill points are worth? If they represent 1% each, i'd rethink my options. But as far as i know, its not worth that much.

[Freekizh]

Yeah true. Would you be KA's hero and experiment for us all, how much the attack/defense skill points are worth? If they represent 1% each, i'd rethink my options. But as far as i know, its not worth that much.

I have already done this and they are significant and worthwhile. I am saying don't take my word for it but try it for yourself :)

I usually don't post something unless I have done it first myself.

Also don't forget the "rounding" factor. If you were farming a monster and it took you 3 hits, well it takes a lot of hero to get it down to 2 where hero makes a difference. Otherwise you are taking 3 hits while someone with lower hero is taking three hits.

[emcee]

What Emcee is trying to get at is this:

If a camper is able to build a really large economy, say 30K IPH, they can at some stage afford to buy good quality equipment, and if that was the case, equalize with those with high hero. Therefore if that was true, why not allocate all your points to Att or Def skills.

That's exactly what I am talking about.

I should have elaborated on my strategy in the OP as if anyone who has read my tortoise guide in CC will probably have a better understanding of where I am going with this.

We all know skills points are finite. From what has been confirmed regarding hero strength, investment in this category will reap immediate rewards in the short term. This is akin to those in CC who invested heavily into energy to farm loot items. These in CC were generally end game items but now with the introduction of events not so much.
As such, there are more than a handful of high level players who have regretted investing so much into energy.

Keep in mind KA is not a race to level 200. Those who get there first do not win a prize. Furthermore, I am not competing with people who started at the same time as myself but only those generally at my levels and within my army alliance bracket.

So there is no need to invest heavily into hero strength and in my case no skills points whatsoever. I am a very disciplined camper. I prefer to play this game infrequently including MW and CC a little more. As such a hardcore camper play style works for me especially with limited stamina. This allows me to develop a better than average economy (got the arcane defender on both level 20 and 9 accounts) and buy blizzard staff (17/18) and other items without farming high level maps.
Since I don't max alliance, don't need to pve potential end game loot items (but it doesn't mean I can't), activate one of my accounts just during events; I can still get away with near perfect stats (after US introduction). So why should I not invest in hero strength when virtually all of my skill points will go into army attack for end game use? Keep in mind skill points are finite and eventually end game or high level play will shift focus away from pve and more towards pvp. Hence, investment in army attack/defense should make a difference if all other equips are more or less the same between rivals.

In CC, MW and KA cash items are generally not end game items. However, some may be close but the deciding variable that levels the playing field and tips it in my favor should be event items and high attack skills multiplier. This is from personal experience in CC.
My level 61 account has a number of event end items and many 9th item reward. That coupled with an event only strategy for leveling has put me in a distinct advantage versus those racing to level 200. So at level 61 I have participated in more events than most and as a result have been rewarded with many end game items.

As I play KA less than any of the other games I started this thread just to confirm my suspicions regarding hero strength as I plan my character build for end game. Once those skills points are assigned they can't be unassigned unless you come up with a good reason to support. 100 misclicks won't cut it.

This thread got a little derailed. It is not about playing style or the efficacy of camping. I just wanted to know about hero strength and if anyone had insights to skill point allocation. I've elaborated in this post about my playing style so people can understand where I'm coming as certain points were brought up.

Freekizh has confirmed my suspicions. I for one will be investing entirely into army attack moving forward.

[Altz]

Yeah, now that i got an explanation, high iph + high attacks is the end game stats.. Camping/high hero strength is the mid game process. Finally i can agree!

[Dewsy]

I may be a bit late to the party to add my 2 cents but I have gone with about 85% of my skill points on Hero Strength. My reasoning was that even at extreme IPHs you can only buy a handful of maximum army equipment per day. The thread ShawnBB posted about the alleged cheater supports this. The guy had a large majority of level 10 buildings and his IPH was 19k. Bearing in mind this would be significantly inflated by cottages, bazaars etc. the real income is probably nowhere near this. The best weapon is 21/14 and it costs 20k. Bearing in mind you will probably spend quite a lot on upgrades/vault/expansions etc, it will probably only be realistic to buy a handful of these a day, even with an IPH of nearly 20k which to be honest is anything but easily attainable without huge gem spending.

Another thing which makes me think like this is that not only will you get better drops from higher level maps(already items with 30+ attack), but you get money which enhances your IPH dramatically.

Although its not definitely going to be a part of KA, look at the high level loot items in MW. They have 200-300+ stats, and something similar will probably be introduced into KA in the future.

I can see the argument of those advocating A/D points, but personally I think Hero Strength is more beneficial.

[Freekizh]

I for one will be investing entirely into army attack moving forward.

For anyone who wants to understand why Emcee does this - there is a school of thought that believes since you cannot defend yourself in whale territory from gem players, then why not put all your points into attack.

[ShawnBB]

For anyone who wants to understand why Emcee does this - there is a school of thought that believes since you cannot defend yourself in whale territory from gem players, then why not put all your points into attack.

Now that's the real mistake bro.

It is always easy to find a weak target to complete valor points goals. Simply because your stats is overwhelming.
But hard to fend off thousands of random players all over the world visiting your base everyday.
For a normal player, funzio game is mainly a passive cumulating game that needs months to get some visible achievement.
I'm not sure if you agree with the statement that attack point=boost active play, defense point=boost passive play
Also ask yourself how long you spent on this game every 24 hours? 1 hour at most.
Dont you think defense points are a lot more important?



You can't defend large whales doesnt mean that you can't defend whales. I fend off countless medium gold spenders everyday. All I'm suffering now are those credit card holders that are worth to be portrayed in a forum thread.

It is totally different if you can be defeated by 5 rivals or 10 rivals.
Say if the chance your base got visited by one of them is 10%.
Then there is 90%^5 =59% chance that your money buildings are safe.
How about 10 rivals? 90%^10= 35% chance you are still safe.
15 rivals? 20% survive chance,which means you are screwed.
What I mean is it's vital to fend off as much player as you can, put out their interest in coming back.


Meanwhile, an attack points focused player could easily get into trouble on personal conflict(curse and revenge). Because the juicy target you picked up are mostly strong player as well. He could easily penetrate your defense back due to your poor points allocate. Which makes your army casualty and money buildings full of red alert around.

[Freekizh]

You are smart and logical Shawn, and I'm glad you said it. I decidedly to not openly argue with Emcee this time on this point since I have flooded his thread enough already :) I merely explained to people his thought process and position.

[ShawnBB]

You are smart and logical Shawn, and I'm glad you said it. I decidedly to not openly argue with Emcee this time on this point since I have flooded his thread enough already :) I merely explained to people his thought process and position.


Thanks man you too. I'm more glad that your avatar is back, love it! My fav cartoon is still kakarot thou:)

[Freekizh]

Thanks man you too. I'm more glad that your avatar is back, love it! My fav cartoon is still kakarot thou:)

Yeah thanks I prefer this one too. I haven't watched kakarot but he is famous too!

[URDead]

I will crush you all. Just saying.....

[Freekizh]

I will crush you all. Just saying.....

Is your avatar a pic of u sitting on the toilet while smoking bro? :)

well..crap or get off the pot like they say ... LOL

[The_Red]

I will crush you all. Just saying.....

you mean pinch us out.... right?

[Hoodcrazy]

Basicly if you played the other 2 Funzio games, Hero Strength = Energy still, its just a bit misleading, instead of skill ponts directly boosting energy amount, you make your energy more powerful. Someone mentioned above about the high end loot in MW being insane, i expect the same from this game. Currently i farmed a weapon in the last KA map that has 30 attack, ive seen 32-33 attack weapons i think. You cant even get close to that in the weapon store so PvE loot is extremely important.

So then it comes down to efficiency. My Hero equip stats are 30/20 and 15/25, and i have 77 points into Hero Strength. Assuming its all just added together i have 122 PvE attack. Ive mastered the first 12 maps Lv5 and working on the 13th map Temple of Abaad. I can defeat plenty of monsters on these and the next few maps with 1 click, so every time i get Gold Exp and chance of loot each click. This makes map mastery very quick, lots of gold and tons of loot.

My dilemma is you cant 1-shot monsters forever. My plan is to be able to kill the average monster on the very last maps with 2 clicks. Currently 2 clicks on Spiders and Beetles in the last map Dwarven Mine leaves them at 5-10% health, so i just need a little bit more Hero Strength. Theres pretty much no way to be 1shottting these highest maps unless you put skills into Hero STR only since Lv1. The sucky part is that somewhere in the middle i wont be able to kill monsters with 1 click, but 2 clicks will be kind of a waste. If you are attacking mobs and they always have a tiny sliver of health left and need 1 extra click, this is the worst thing and i try to avoid at all costs.

I think very early on the best thing is to upgrade Hero STR only, mixing in a little Stamina as needed. (1 hour = 20 stamina recharge so im staying at 30 stamina, so i can check in every hour for events, give or take). You will need all the loot you can get to equip your army. Eventually you will get to a point where Hero STR isnt taking any "clicks" away. Then toward middle and end game i think Atk/Def stats start becoming more important.

BTW 0 hero strength would be awful, and so is camping imo, the most important stats in the game is your total army Attack and Defense, and if you get these numbers as high as possible you are winning and might even discourage folks from even messing with you. Try to get the most out of your energy and stamina dont let any go to waste, and work toward high Atk/Def numbers, and keep your Hero with the best Weapon/Armor from the hardest map you can visit.

[emcee]

At present planning on pure army attack skill points build for level 22 account. This is the same for my accounts in CC and MW.

At a certain point I will not be allocating any skill points into army attack/defense if I don't see any significant levels of loss. In essence I will be banking them for future use as they are finite. So once I reach a certain level and feel that defense needs augmentation from skill points and that defense buildings/units/equips are not sufficient then my path will change.

This is how I play all of Funzio/Gree games. In all likelihood this may only work in CC as you can buy 50 of any one defense building whereas in MW and KA it is only 5.

Only time will tell as I progress. The only certainty is 0 skills investment in hero strength.

[The_Red]

Only time will tell as I progress. The only certainty is 0 skills investment in hero strength.

I would think you would be at a massive disadvantage for farming weapons/armor for your army without adding additional points to hero strength. It will be interesting to see how it works out though; good luck!

[Khyron]

I have a question about Kingdom Age. I am a level 75. How is it players levels 110 and up are able to attack me? I can barely access those a few levels above or below me. Worse, when I retaliate against those around my level who initially attack me, the game tells me they are too weak to attack when they are only about 2,000-7,000 lower in defense than my attack points. Worse yet, these level 110+ bullies with attack points 20,000 more than my defense can repeatedly farm me. Can't this be changed to level the fighting ground?

[Locks]

Hey Hoodcrazy, got a question for you. I'm in the desert, second to last map, but I've done mostly just level one of each map. Is the loot on the 3rd and 5th level of each map that good, so should I go back and do more before I finish the last map? Am sad at the thought of finishing, and womdering if this is a way of extending the game....
Thx, Hemlock in KA

[Hunterhan37]

I do believe there is NO end-game. Funzio will keep increase the level cap, add maps, add map loots and add buildings, once lots of gem players get to the level cap.

So, campers can never get to end-game, not even close. From this point view, the skill point is infinite. :-)

[URDead]

Is your avatar a pic of u sitting on the toilet while smoking bro? :)

well..crap or get off the pot like they say ... LOL

This is where you are wrong my friend. This is me in Afghanistan playing worms with a buddy of mine on the iphone 3g. This of course was in a time before CC, KA, and Modern War. Worms 2 with bluetooth provided me with hours of entertainment.

[emcee]

I still am putting all my skill points into army attack. I've read that hero strength has some benefit in boss events. I'm going to guess that army attack has a greater effect overall.

Any reasons or suggestions why this is the case or not?

[Hobtuse]

I still am putting all my skill points into army attack. I've read that hero strength has some benefit in boss events. I'm going to guess that army attack has a greater effect overall.

Any reasons or suggestions why this is the case or not?

@Emcee: Hero strength has no benefit for boss events. Mostly random chatter.
Attack skill points have a marginal effect for boss events. You get 4 more damage for every point you put into Attack.

[emcee]

@Emcee: Hero strength has no benefit for boss events. Mostly random chatter.
Attack skill points have a marginal effect for boss events. You get 4 more damage for every point you put into Attack.

Thanks for clarification. That's what I thought at first.

[Eragon]

With weapons and armor already out with stats at 40...those with very low hero strength are at a huge disadvantage imo.