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kelpjuice
06-02-2012, 04:37 PM
Hey guys,

I'm relatively new here, been lurking for a month or so. So here is my question, is it worth putting skill points into attack? I'm currently level 91 with 56 stamina and 1700 energy, I'm no longer putting any more into energy, only stamina now. Is there a good time to stop pouring it into stamina? I read some people in the forums with 300 attack (including black widow). Any input would be awesome!

AppleMacGuy
06-02-2012, 04:52 PM
IIRC the consensus is that that putting skill points into attack or defence is pointless...questionable at best. Continue upping stamina - 100 at least IMO (I only got to 89 and wish I had more)...I would build on energy also towards 2500-3000 range. Even if you're not doing maps the energy is useful at the start of an event as a menas to obtain event boxes top open when there are few around via PvP.

kelpjuice
06-02-2012, 04:57 PM
Sweet, that was exactly what I was thinking, wanted some clarification. Thanks!

Euchred
06-02-2012, 04:58 PM
I like my setup at 2000 energy and 100 stamina, I put 55 points into defense which turned out to be pointless. I'm sitting at 344 attack with the bank buster and black widow.

kelpjuice
06-02-2012, 05:05 PM
I like my setup at 2000 energy and 100 stamina, I put 55 points into defense which turned out to be pointless. I'm sitting at 344 attack with the bank buster and black widow.

So would you say it was a waste to put the 144 into attack that you put in?

Euchred
06-02-2012, 05:07 PM
So would you say it was a waste to put the 144 into attack that you put in?

Not really I don't see the point of putting my energy and stamina any higher but to each his own. So attack is all that's left

nopenopenope
06-02-2012, 05:09 PM
I suggest putting it into stamina so you can take more money off others and upgrade your hood income. 15k is low for lvl 91

kelpjuice
06-02-2012, 05:18 PM
Yeah thats what I'm trying to do right now. I didn't camp at all starting off, although now I am sort of crawling, just attacking for thug life goals and robbing.

Miss Jasmine
06-02-2012, 05:50 PM
is it worth putting skill points into attack? Is there a good time to stop pouring it into stamina? I read some people in the forums with 300 attack (including black widow). Any input would be awesome!

Well I'm pretty new to the forums as well, been in-game a little longer though. Here's my thoughts on it:

Current Skill Points Layout:

Level 47

Attack: 15
Defense: 0
Energy: 0 (Which totally sucks for events, but oh well ...)
Stamina: 67

Personally, I heavily favor investing in Stamina over Attack. I'm very picky about how I invest points when it comes to stuff like this. I like having specific numbers, and solid facts so that I can actually calculate out the exact bonuses of what I'm getting (Yes, I can be a nerd too :D). Unfortunately the Attack skill does not offer this.

From what I've seen so far though, as long as I attacked or robbed someone whose true defense was 80% or less than my true attack (This was before I had any skill points in Attack), I didn't have any problems whatsoever (Such as fights lost or grenade consumption, for example.)

I then tried adding an additional 15 Skill Points I had saved into Attack (Not many I know), and attacked again. Sadly, my results hardly changed at all. I was still losing at approximately the same rate as before, to the same player. Any defense that was still roughly over 80% of my true attack, and I would either start losing fights, or begin consuming grenades very quickly (Which in either case I concluded to mean that my attack still wasn't high enough). I've been recording the data from various fights though, and I'll be looking to see if there's any significant change if I do actually receive a Black Widow Shotgun and +100 Attack Skill bonus on my Android this Monday.

As far as Stamina goes, I'd honestly say the more the better. I'm looking to get at least 100 Stamina before I even consider investing into Attack again. Even if you CAN log on constantly to fully utilize lower levels of stamina, higher stamina still equates to much easier respect farming, and longer "effective down time" (What I mean by that is more free time to go do other irl things, without having to log back in every single time your Stamina maxes out at 5).

If you love PvP like me, and play often, you can burn through 60+ Stamina without any problems at all. In all honesty though, I'd suggest that you base your Stamina level off of your actual play time. If you ever reach a point where you regularly find yourself having difficulty using up all of your Stamina, then start investing in Attack instead.

But then again, this is all just my take on things. ;)

murf
06-02-2012, 07:10 PM
I think the consensus guess at the value of attack/defense skill points is this formula:

max(1+(.09*Level),10). So at L100 each skill point is worth 10 attack/defense points.

I think someone found it in the code awhile back.

nopenopenope
06-02-2012, 07:14 PM
I think the consensus guess at the value of attack/defense skill points is this formula:

max(1+(.09*Level),10). So at L100 each skill point is worth 10 attack/defense points.

I think someone found it in the code awhile back.

Furthermore on the consesus guess is the SP additions are no longer reflected on the results screen.

Plumbernick9
06-02-2012, 08:09 PM
If anyone cares...
I have 187 skill points in defense, and I rarely get robbed or attacked. I'm averaging one successful attacker/robber per week. Points well spent in my opinion.

Inzaghi
06-02-2012, 08:20 PM
I think the consensus guess at the value of attack/defense skill points is this formula:

max(1+(.09*Level),10). So at L100 each skill point is worth 10 attack/defense points.

I think someone found it in the code awhile back.
It's not true. I have 100 skill points added but attack point does not increase by 1.

nopenopenope
06-02-2012, 08:41 PM
It's not true. I have 100 skill points added but attack point does not increase by 1.

Since you're continually posting the same thing over and over without stating any facts, I have taken time out of my day to do the work for you...

We have long known about that Skill Point formula from many sources. The formula quite possibly may have changed, but it's all we have to go on and it was extracted from original game data. See here:


But reversed engineered by forum members. The formula is

mult = 1.09 + 0.09 * (level - 1)
if mult > 10 then mult = 10
from this thread: http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?20728-Att-vs-Def/page3

This was also discussed by CCM in a now deleted thread:

This is where CC Mark talk about multiplier definition.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?9971-Attack-and-Defense-bought-with-skill-points/page2

I've also already told you that the results screen was changed that no longer shows as much information as before. That was explained here:

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?13046-Fight-Robbery-percentages-changed&p=62022&highlight=hidden%3B+screen#post62022

and here:


Don't rely on just the screen or you will drive yourself nuts. There is also the defense skill points which you don't see which factors into the equation as well as the random factor.

and here:


Skill points are not included in the calculation.

PawnXIIX
06-02-2012, 09:01 PM
I think the consensus guess at the value of attack/defense skill points is this formula:

max(1+(.09*Level),10). So at L100 each skill point is worth 10 attack/defense points.

Thank you so much, I was looking for this. Does that show at all anywhere or is that just used during some behind the scenes calculation? (like with the random variable that helps determine if you win or not)

There seems to me...to be just simply a grey area on this subject. This is the only thing I'm not even sure about on the forums :/

Primal
06-02-2012, 09:15 PM
I have exactly 200 defense points, and my defense score is 38k...but I have people with an attack of only 25k who successfully rob my hood....their win/loss ratio in my hood isnt that good, but with enough stamina they can get alot of cash at times...my 12's are timed and my 24's....each putting out roughly 3 mill total....so worth them to keep attacking...

So I'm on the fence with skill points...especially after the latest shotgun and adding 100 skill points, and I noticed very minimal change in win/loss ratio on the same people as opposed to before I got the attack points...

PawnXIIX
06-02-2012, 09:28 PM
I have exactly 200 defense points, and my defense score is 38k...but I have people with an attack of only 25k who successfully rob my hood....

The thing about defense is that it is already misleading when it comes to defense buildings :/

Inzaghi
06-02-2012, 09:50 PM
Since you're continually posting the same thing over and over without stating any facts, I have taken time out of my day to do the work for you...

We have long known about that Skill Point formula from many sources. The formula quite possibly may have changed, but it's all we have to go on and it was extracted from original game data. See here:


from this thread: http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?20728-Att-vs-Def/page3

This was also discussed by CCM in a now deleted thread:


I've also already told you that the results screen was changed that no longer shows as much information as before. That was explained here:

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?13046-Fight-Robbery-percentages-changed&p=62022&highlight=hidden%3B+screen#post62022

and here:



and here:
I have the facts to support my opinion. You can refer to that thread. So your claim "without stating any facts" is not valid. And I'm just trying to share someone with my opinion. I wouldn't repeat if they didn't ask. I'm sorry for that if it really bothers you.
I definitely agree with you that skill points play an important role, but at least it does not increase the displayed attack points in the profile (not referring to fight screen), right? It will change the variable "mult", but I prefer to believe this variable only affects the random factor during a fight, and it's not just simply added to the base attack points. You have to prove me wrong by showing it's just simple addition. Or else, I would still stick to my opinion: skill points does not increase your base attack points, but it increases your chance of winning by adjusting variable "mult", the mechanism of which is known only to someone like CCM.

nopenopenope
06-02-2012, 10:01 PM
The best solution ever: REDUCE YOUR MAFIA SIZE TO 490 SO THAT THEY WON'T NOTICE YOU. IF 500ERS ARE TALKING IN THE FORUM ABOUT THE ABSENCE OF 499ERS AND STARTING ATTACKING 490ERS, GO TO 480 :) Trust me, they will get tired of this because their ultimate goal is to do TL, not to attack you.

Thanks for the lulz, hopefully Burn & Co. visits you soon.

Inzaghi
06-02-2012, 10:21 PM
Thanks for the lulz, hopefully Burn & Co. visits you soon.
I don't see any points/logic between your posts. I was sharing my opinion with someone and you said it's wrong. After I proved I was not wrong, you searched my old posts and posted one here. So what? Prove I'm a coward? At that time, I was just in level 60~70, far from rats levels. I hate being forced by others, so just didn't favor the rat-catching idea and brainstormed a solution. That's what happened. It does not prove anything. Even if you are right, I'm a coward. Does it mean what I said here is wrong? Don't see the point of connecting these utterly unrelated posts.

nopenopenope
06-02-2012, 10:33 PM
Does it mean what I said here is wrong?

Yep pretty much. I guess Tramp Stamp knew nothing about this game after all... Carry on.

PawnXIIX
06-02-2012, 11:38 PM
Yep pretty much. I guess Tramp Stamp knew nothing about this game after all... Carry on.

I think we need one post that sums up everything that is known rather than piecing together pits of information from all over the forums. Or...do we know nothing?

nopenopenope
06-02-2012, 11:41 PM
I think we need one post that sums up everything that is known rather than piecing together pits of information from all over the forums. Or...do we know nothing?

I encourage you to do so by all means, but this is good enough for me:

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?15058-Effect-of-Def-buildings-and-skill-points-against-rob-atk-by-Guru-Peacock-again..lol

PawnXIIX
06-02-2012, 11:45 PM
I encourage you to do so by all means

Yeah I saw that. I just had a revelation though, so i'm going to go hide away in my little cave now

murf
06-04-2012, 07:27 AM
It does not show on the attack screen, it's hidden so your opponents don't know how much you have allocated to skill points

murf
06-04-2012, 07:29 AM
I have exactly 200 defense points, and my defense score is 38k...but I have people with an attack of only 25k who successfully rob my hood....their win/loss ratio in my hood isnt that good, but with enough stamina they can get alot of cash at times...my 12's are timed and my 24's....each putting out roughly 3 mill total....so worth them to keep attacking...

So I'm on the fence with skill points...especially after the latest shotgun and adding 100 skill points, and I noticed very minimal change in win/loss ratio on the same people as opposed to before I got the attack points...

Read Peacock's explanation of defense in the best of the best...synopsis: defense buildings are misleading and defense against robberies is 50% of true defense

Plux
06-04-2012, 11:11 AM
It's a wonderful equation :D