Gree founder in trouble......

[Jill]

I posted this on an earlier thread but it has disappeared, so thought I'd post it again for your information.


Here is some really interesting news from 9th May and maybe the real reason things suck right now and I quote;

“Yoshikazu Tanaka, Japan’s youngest billionaire and founder of Gree Inc. (3632), lost $704 million in the past two days after his social-gaming company declined on concerns one of its sales methods may be declared illegal.
Japan’s second-biggest operator of social games fell 0.1 percent to 1,650 yen today, extending a record 23 percent plunge yesterday. The two days of declines wiped out 56.2 billion yen ($704 million) from the value of the 35-year-old Tanaka’s shareholding, based on calculations by Bloomberg News.'

[PawnXIIX]

I'm not so concerned that he lost $704 million...

I'm just startled that a before a 23% plunge he was worth 2.82B approximately.

Can't wait to get started in the computer field :D

[Dipstik]

Any idea what advertising technique might be "illegal" and where? Japan only?

[Rhino72]

I posted this on an earlier thread but it has disappeared, so thought I'd post it again for your information.


Here is some really interesting news from 9th May and maybe the real reason things suck right now and I quote;

“Yoshikazu Tanaka, Japan’s youngest billionaire and founder of Gree Inc. (3632), lost $704 million in the past two days after his social-gaming company declined on concerns one of its sales methods may be declared illegal.
Japan’s second-biggest operator of social games fell 0.1 percent to 1,650 yen today, extending a record 23 percent plunge yesterday. The two days of declines wiped out 56.2 billion yen ($704 million) from the value of the 35-year-old Tanaka’s shareholding, based on calculations by Bloomberg News.'

This has been mentioned many times in numerous threads. Many have speculated that since this story is about illegal sales practices in Japan that is why Gree bought Funzio. I doubt this has much to do with anything going on in CC right now. As many have mentioned (you yourself) the sale to Gree and the complexity of any merger or acquisition is enormous. Lfizzle gave a quick one liner about basically just trying to survive and CCM has posted / locked down threads sporadically. It is going to take some time so for everybody that has invested real money and time in the game we just need to sit, wait and hope for the best.

People complain how "things suck right now" but prior to the Gree sale everybody was complaining about M4s and DDs and "how things sucked back then". All we can do is keep giving it time and it will get better. Look how pumped up everybody was with the PVP event and a few days later since they don't have a prize everybody cries. This is the Crime City cycle, happy then mad, complain then happy...

[dudeman]

I posted this on an earlier thread but it has disappeared, so thought I'd post it again for your information.


Here is some really interesting news from 9th May and maybe the real reason things suck right now and I quote;

“Yoshikazu Tanaka, Japan’s youngest billionaire and founder of Gree Inc. (3632), lost $704 million in the past two days after his social-gaming company declined on concerns one of its sales methods may be declared illegal.
Japan’s second-biggest operator of social games fell 0.1 percent to 1,650 yen today, extending a record 23 percent plunge yesterday. The two days of declines wiped out 56.2 billion yen ($704 million) from the value of the 35-year-old Tanaka’s shareholding, based on calculations by Bloomberg News.'

http://aroundthesphere.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg

That's what happens when you make an online gambling system with no posted odds that is accessible to children.

[Jill]

I didn't see the other threads on this Rhino, so sorry for creating another one, I thought it was latest buzz.

I'm not complaining about the widow, I thought trading practises may be a new problem and this was at the heart of slow responses and to be honest why we haven't seen CC people around lately.
Perhaps it's old hat and I read too much into it as I only came across it this morning.

[Jill]

http://aroundthesphere.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg

That's what happens when you make an online gambling system with no posted odds that is accessible to children.

This is what I thought also Dudeman.

@dipstik ..... No I have no other info

[emcee]

Any idea what advertising technique might be "illegal" and where? Japan only?
Can't recall where I read it or saw it but something to do with enticement to purchase items in game to increase odds of getting a set of rare items. I don't see what's wrong with that but the Japanese have a different spin on gambling. Only potential issue I see is with underage players getting addicted.

[Rhino72]

I didn't see the other threads on this Rhino, so sorry for creating another one, I thought it was latest buzz.

I'm not complaining about the widow, I thought trading practises may be a new problem and this was at the heart of slow responses and to be honest why we haven't seen CC people around lately.
Perhaps it's old hat and I read too much into it as I only came across it this morning.

Sorry Jill the old thread could have been created while you were away for a bit. I thought you did a good job on your thread explaining a little behind he complexity of a takeover so I was a little surprised when I saw you were concerned about a jpy company losing value on a legal ruling. What I would really like to know is the key person clauses of who at funzio actually has to stay on? Nothing has really been perfect from the start but I am only concerned about the long term viability of the game since I look at it as I do any other investment. The roi here might not be on cash but for 7 months now my roi on enjoyment has done much better than my portfolio.

[DenZ1]

http://aroundthesphere.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg

That's what happens when you make an online gambling system with no posted odds that is accessible to children.

+1 to dudeman

[DenZ1]

Sorry Jill the old thread could have been created while you were away for a bit. I thought you did a good job on your thread explaining a little behind he complexity of a takeover so I was a little surprised when I saw you were concerned about a jpy company losing value on a legal ruling. What I would really like to know is the key person clauses of who at funzio actually has to stay on? Nothing has really been perfect from the start but I am only concerned about the long term viability of the game since I look at it as I do any other investment. The roi here might not be on cash but for 7 months now my roi on enjoyment has done much better than my portfolio.

I'm pretty sure we have different expectations. ROI on enjoyment from for example Call of Duty is tenfold of that of CC. It’s just that CC gives you much leeway in terms of time and place to get that enjoyment. :)

[Burn]

I'm sure this is part of the reason why they bought Funzio.

The litigation in Japan will have been long-running, and they will have been fully aware of the probability of a ruling against them.

I'm too lazy to go look, but I'd hazard a guess that Funzio is not the only similar business they have purchased, that falls outside of Japanese jurisdiction.

[DenZ1]

I'm sure this is part of the reason why they bought Funzio.

The litigation in Japan will have been long-running, and they will have been fully aware of the probability of a ruling against them.

I'm too lazy to go look, but I'd hazard a guess that Funzio is not the only similar business they have purchased, that falls outside of Japanese jurisdiction.

Others might follow.

[cookie monster]

It's because the games are supposed to be free, but game play is made much more easier if you pay for gold/gems. It's not much different than a 'bait & switch' scheme.

[Dipstik]

Actually, that's entirely different from a "bait & switch" scheme. In a "bait & switch," the company will advertise something unrealistically cheap ($1 laptop or something) in order to get people into the store and then for some reason not have that item available once people are in the store. "The games" (assuming you're talking about games similar to CC, because I don't know what else Gree offers, and I'm not defending something I don't know) are exactly what they claim to be.

Also, I'd note that "bait & switch" is legal so long as you're clear up front in the ads that the "bait" is limited quantity or only available with another purchase, etc.

[Rhino72]

I'm pretty sure we have different expectations. ROI on enjoyment from for example Call of Duty is tenfold of that of CC. It’s just that CC gives you much leeway in terms of time and place to get that enjoyment. :)

Not when you can't get your K/D ration over 1.10 :-)

[Vince the Fist]

Can't recall where I read it or saw it but something to do with enticement to purchase items in game to increase odds of getting a set of rare items. I don't see what's wrong with that but the Japanese have a different spin on gambling. Only potential issue I see is with underage players getting addicted.

The events would be illegal in Australia as they are likely to mislead and deceive consumers. The people who founded Funzio made their $200mill and got out. I'd say it's all going to be downhill from here.

[sexkitteh]

I thought jack and jill went up the hill and after jill blew jack jack killed jill but now jill's back????

WTF?!

[mnju_03]

Longterm...this game and or company wont even be a thought on our brains. Anyone still play Yahoo pool? or use Mplayer? How about those little keychain digi pet thingys? ...Oh well

[cookie monster]

Actually, that's entirely different from a "bait & switch" scheme. In a "bait & switch," the company will advertise something unrealistically cheap ($1 laptop or something) in order to get people into the store and then for some reason not have that item available once people are in the store. "The games" (assuming you're talking about games similar to CC, because I don't know what else Gree offers, and I'm not defending something I don't know) are exactly what they claim to be.

Also, I'd note that "bait & switch" is legal so long as you're clear up front in the ads that the "bait" is limited quantity or only available with another purchase, etc.

Thank you, exposition boy. However, we're still talking about a free game that once you begin playing you realize that you are at a decided disadvantage without spending real money. I didn't say it was bait and switch, I said that it was similiar.

[cookie monster]

The events would be illegal in Australia as they are likely to mislead and deceive consumers. The people who founded Funzio made their $200mill and got out. I'd say it's all going to be downhill from here.

Agreed. The gameplay is largely repetitive, too. It'll pass.

[Dipstik]

So the "illegality" that I asked about was the fact that it's similar to (but not) a practice that is entirely legal? Thanks for the explanation!

[mnju_03]

I believe it's legality... Jus sayin'

[Dipstik]

Nah... an illegality is an illegal act. I was asking what advertising practice gree was engaged in that was supposedly about to be come illegal.

[Dorian Gray]

Nah... an illegality is an illegal act. I was asking what advertising practice gree was engaged in that was supposedly about to be come illegal.

I'm wondering where you saw anything about advertising?

[Dipstik]

See OP. extra characters.

[John Snow]

http://aroundthesphere.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg

That's what happens when you make an online gambling system with no posted odds that is accessible to children.

You are so right on. I learned this the hard way, spending on my first event.

[John Snow]

From an article in GamesIndustry. The mechanics sound very, very familiar...

"The game mechanic in question is known as "kompu gacha" (complete gacha). Gacha is a game mechanic based on the coin-operated toy vending machines you find everywhere in Japan; it's essentially a lottery spin to get a virtual item. Nearly every game from DeNA and Gree use the "gacha" mechanic, as do games like PopCap's Bejeweled Blitz. With the "complete gacha" players who want to get a special/rare item must get a set of other items through gacha first. For instance, the user must first get item A through gacha, then item B (also through gacha), then C and D - and only if they can get items A-D (complete gacha) do they get the rare item.

This leads to users spending an inordinate amount of money to get extra "gacha" chances, which has already led to some crackdowns by Japan's Consumer Affairs Agency and an agreement by Gree and DeNA to limit spending by children. Apparently this has not gone far enough for the Japanese government, which has seen the number of complaints soar.

The Yomiuri Shimbun reported that the agency will ask social-network game operators to stop using the system because it prompts customers to pay excessive fees."

[Jill]

I thought jack and jill went up the hill and after jill blew jack jack killed jill but now jill's back????

WTF?!

And it's good to see you again too, I'll tell Jack you were asking for him......