Bank Buster + Black Widow= ??

[Jakers]

Hey all, I'm new here so please be gentle.

My base attack skill is 104 and I've fortunate enough to win the bank buster and also recently the black widow. Each one will raise my attack skill by 100 to a total of 304. My current attack is roughly 31,750. I've searched the forums, however is there a consensus opinion as to what my "effective" could will be? These two when combined seem like they will be a lethal combo. I've seen extremely differing opinions on the forums relating to this.

Thx all

My stats:
Level 143
Attack wins/loses = 15700/700
Robbery wins/loses = 11380/130
Income/hr = $230k
Jakers #779 984 859

[BOS]

From what I've seen (all unconfirmed by Funzio) this should translate into 3,000 attack... of course, all unconfirmed.

[Dipstik]

There is no confirmed answer as to what skill points actually do for your attack level. It might not even translate directly to a number. Believe whatever makes you feel comfortable, but there has NOT been an explanation as to what skill points do for you. It's the wildcard in the attack calculation.

[Plumbernick9]

From what I've seen (all unconfirmed by Funzio) this should translate into 3,000 attack... of course, all unconfirmed.


you > or < level 100?

if > i think you get 31750 + 3040 attack

If < i think a bit less with 1 atk skill point = 9 point something attack.

This is totally bogus.

[Aid]

This is totally bogus.

I agree with JJ...that calculation was given a while back. What exactly do you have to back up your claim?

[Dipstik]

The fact that "the calculation was given a while back" is not evidence that the calculation is in any way accurate. Believe whatever you want, but it has not been verified.

[Rhino72]

This is totally bogus.

Did you manage to read all the old threads on this or are you just disagreeing based off of what?

If what is shown in the fight / rob results screen is correct then from past experiments the multiplier of 10 after level 100 seemed right. One could take the other side where CCM posted that "all the math is wrong" in that thread and go from there. At least BOS and JJ are trying to go off of past analysis so back to my original question, why do you think what they are saying is bogus?

[sexkitteh]

Well - how about confirming part of his question?

Will both weapons stack?

Most likely yes - therefore you have an advantage over everyone else "." <- period :D

[Aid]

The fact that "the calculation was given a while back" is not evidence that the calculation is in any way accurate. Believe whatever you want, but it has not been verified.

I believe the OP at the time took the information from game data, which is more accurate than guessing and saying there has NOT been confirmation...game data is better than nothing. Maybe you could look in the P list data and verify for or against, or maybe go grab your popcorn

[Dipstik]

Well, you are making this thread more amusing than most. Popcorn might be in order, but I don't think we've reached M4A1 proportions yet. In the meantime, you're wrong. Just wrong. The mysterious "OP at the time" was speculating. There is no publicly available data for what skill points actually do for you. I highly doubt it's as simple as a direct addition to your total mafia attack.

Again, believe whatever you like. Or get all pissy and post more lulz. Either way is fine with me :)

[Aid]

Well, you are making this thread more amusing than most. Popcorn might be in order, but I don't think we've reached M4A1 proportions yet. In the meantime, you're wrong. Just wrong. The mysterious "OP at the time" was speculating. There is no publicly available data for what skill points actually do for you. I highly doubt it's as simple as a direct addition to your total mafia attack.

Again, believe whatever you like. Or get all pissy and post more lulz. Either way is fine with me :)

Grabs popcorn...not getting pissy just posting as you normally do. Do you use the spreadsheets that list drop rates, because that is not 'publicly available' knowledge either...so are those useless also? Not saying the calculation is correct, but the P list data is just as good as getting drop rates and locations for loot...

[Dipstik]

I think you should read more carefully if you think I've ever made an argument that poorly.

[Plumbernick9]

I agree with JJ...that calculation was given a while back. What exactly do you have to back up your claim?
That calculation was created by a member. As a matter of fact, crime city mark came into the discussion and said it was totally false. I think you are the one that needs to be backing up your claim.

[Aid]

Grabs popcorn
Dipstick and plumber a player that has always supplied game data supplied what the code states...
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?17940-So-I-have-all-the-stamina-and-energy-I-need........./page2

Which is still better than the both of you stating everyone is wrong and not being able to provide any data

[Aid]

That calculation was created by a member. As a matter of fact, crime city mark came into the discussion and said it was totally false. I think you are the one that needs to be backing up your claim.

The post you are referring to is a player trying to come up with a formula and not the player I am speaking of, which is the same player that provides game data for drops and loot...as a matter of fact

[Dipstik]

Like I said... Believe whatever you want.

For reference, here's the post aid is relying on: "Looking at the game data, levels 100+ have a "pvp_attack_scale" and "pvp_defense_scale" of 10 each, so that appears correct to me. 1 attack/defense skill point = 10 attack/defense at level 100+"

Seems legit :)

[Plumbernick9]

Are you saying each attack skill point will raise your attack profile number by a 100 points?

[Aid]

Are you saying each attack skill point will raise your attack profile number by a 100 points?
No after level 100 each skill point would add 10 defense or attack, so 100 skill points would translate to 1000. Below level 100 it is a percentage according to allhaildiscordia, although I cannot find the calculation - I think Nicholost incorporated into his calculator though

[Plumbernick9]

1 ATK skill point will raise my attack profile by 10 points?

[jobadass]

@Aid, please don't waste your time. You are barking up the wrong tree with these two.

[Plumbernick9]

@Aid, please don't waste your time. You are barking up the wrong tree with these two.

I'm just asking him if +1 attack skill point will add 10 points to my profile attack score. What's so wrong about me asking him that?

[Aid]

I don't have access to game data code, but the player that provided this information is the same player that created many of the spread sheets listing loot, etc. it most certainly could have changed since then and there is a random element...but according to the data at that time if you are level 100 or over yes one skill point in attack would give you a hidden increase in attack by 10.
There have been 2 players recently that have slightly better stats then me (about 2000 better) that never win when they attack me, I have asked them about skill point allocation and neither of them put skill points into attack or defense, granted there is the random factor that is really unknown.

[Plumbernick9]

Now you are saying it gives you a "hidden" increase of 10 points? How did this person even arrive at the specific number of 10?

[Dipstik]

Speculation. Ccm already said its wrong, but you can't DISprove it so who cares?

[jobadass]

I'm just asking him if +1 attack skill point will add 10 points to my profile attack score. What's so wrong about me asking him that?
Nothing. I just have trouble believing that you are asking a serious question. If you are, it's my bad, and I apologize.

[Aid]

You two are impossible. But so be it, allhaildiscordia provided much of the data that is still used.

[Inzaghi]

Speculation. Ccm already said its wrong, but you can't DISprove it so who cares?
If you guys are in the 500 list and wish to know. Here is the chance to prove without speculation. Go to the thread I started and leave the data before CCM distributes the shotgun!

[Dipstik]

You have a very low threshold of "impossible," but you're right to assume that I will not be easily convinced that skill points are as simple as +10 attack. You're appealing to an authority you don't even understand. I, on the other hand, make no claim to understanding. We're not supposed to know what they do exactly. Get over it.

[Aid]

You have a very low threshold of "impossible," but you're right to assume that I will not be easily convinced that skill points are as simple as +10 attack. You're appealing to an authority you don't even understand. I, on the other hand, make no claim to understanding. We're not supposed to know what they do exactly. Get over it.
Nothing for me to get over. A player that has looked at the code provided the information, is it still correct I do not know. What I do know is that it is more concrete than you stating everyone is wrong based on your opinion

[Dipstik]

There is no confirmed answer as to what skill points actually do for your attack level. It might not even translate directly to a number. Believe whatever makes you feel comfortable, but there has NOT been an explanation as to what skill points do for you. It's the wildcard in the attack calculation.

That's what I actually said. 100% correct. Nothing is confirmed, everything is speculation. Saying you are speculating is not the same as saying you're wrong.

[Nicholost]

I posted a reply about the contribution skill points have awhile back in the Updated Best of the Best (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?29487-The-Updated-quot-Best-of-the-Best-quot-Guides!&p=233374&viewfull=1#post233374) thread. I will repost it here because it is relevant.



Skill contribution = (amount of skill points)*(multiplier based on level) + total att/def
That is a direct quote from CCM in this (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?9971-Attack-and-Defense-bought-with-skill-points&p=54129#post54129) thread, which was deleted within the last month.

Tramp Stamp and other forum OGs concluded that the multiplier is as follows (clicky (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?20728-Att-vs-Def&p=123752#post123752)):
Multiplier = 1.09 + 0.09 * (level - 1)
If Multiplier > 10 then Multiplier = 10

So in my case, at level 99 with 72 defense skill points, my defense skill point contribution looks like this:
(1.09 + 0.09 * (99 - 1)) = 9.91
9.91 * 72 = 713.52

The fact is, we have no idea how skill points work. The general consensus is they are not additive 1:1. That is, 100 attack skill points does not increase your attack by 100 points. While it isn't much to go on, the equation that the CC OGs found based off experiment is the best we have. It makes sense too.

[Plumbernick9]

Nothing for me to get over. A player that has looked at the code provided the information, is it still correct I do not know. What I do know is that it is more concrete than you stating everyone is wrong based on your opinion

Crime city mark said it was wrong. I think his statement is more concrete than "the guy who looked at the code".

[Nicholost]

Crime citY mark said it was wrong. I think his statement is more concrete than "the guy who looked at the code".

Wrong or not, it's the best we have. Unless you have another equation to share with some good data to back it up, I'm sticking to the current equation.

What I find interesting is that CCM deleted the thread where he explains how skill points are calculated; the one I quoted. There are no numbers, but the formula is there. His action provides more basis as to the validity of that equation than anything else prior.

Also, I do not recall CCM saying that the equation for skill points is incorrect. I do recall him saying that the equation for determining building defense is incorrect though. Could you be confused and thinking of that? Think you can link us to the post where he says the skill point equation is incorrect?

[Aid]

Plumberick, how do you think we have the loot drop sheets? Do you think Funzio supplied those? Allhaildiscordia pulled the data, so whether you agree or not "the guy that looked at the code" is much more concrete than anything you can offer.

[Plumbernick9]

.
Also, I do not recall CCM saying that the equation for skill points is incorrect. I do recall him saying that the equation for determining building defense is incorrect though. Could you be confused and thinking of that? Think you can link us to the post where he says the skill point equation is incorrect?

Yes. This is what i'm talking about. Skill points. I'm arguing the statement that skill points add 10 points to your profile attack or defense score.

[nopenopenope]

Isn't this info already in Peacock's defense BoB or am I missing something?



Att/def Skill points contribution effect towards being atk/rob

At lvl 1, these values are both 1.09 for atk and def, at lvl 100 these values are both 10. It increases at an interval of 0.09 after each lv and it is cap at 10 from lv100-200

eg. If my current lvl is 150. So it's 10 x 300 of skills pts (if i invested 300 into def or atk) = 3000 extra which cannot be viewed from the fight/rob screen

[Aid]

Isn't this info already in Peacock's defense BoB or am I missing something?

Apparently we have missed something. I will keep my sarcasm to a minimum and leave it at that statement ...that looks like the same formula that was pulled from game data...imagine that

[Plumbernick9]

Who made that statement? If peacock is someone of importance at funzio, then i stand corrected. Im not trying to be sarcastic, or just arguing for the sake of it. I just want some solid facts.

[nopenopenope]

Respect the men who did far more work than you before you even got here. Read through the BoB's, then come back to post.

[Steve0]

You will never know the correct answer, unless you wrote the code.

[Plumbernick9]

Respect the men who did far more work than you before you even got here. Read through the BoB's, then come back to post.

I have been here reading since last year. That is why i am confident in my point of saying there has never been any official statement saying skill points add "10" or whatever amount of points to your profile.

[Nicholost]

Plumbernick9, I get the feeling you are being argumentative for the sake of it. You want solid proof, but Funzio is the only one who can give you that. Peacock, allhaildiscordia, Tramp Stamp, and others gave it a best-guess and it's all we have to work with. Funzio is extremely tight lipped with how skill points actually work, but I am confident they behave exactly as the previous equation states. Here's why: in level.plist, all game levels are defined; level 1-200. For each level definition, there two properties; pvp_attack_scale and pvp_defense_scale. For level 1, those values are 1.09. At level 99, they are 9.91. From level 100 to 200, they are 10.0.

You see, we have no idea if those properties define skill point allocation, but based on other game data and previous posts from CCM, there's a good chance they do. You're either going to have to accept it or propose another theory with a higher likelihood of being right because Funzio is not going to tell us the truth on this one. Trust me, I've tried (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?25100-Funzio-L-Fizzle-and-CCM-The-Effects-of-Skill-Points).