The "Comparing Buildings" Thread

[Dreno33]

Here I would like to have a legitimate informative discussion on comparing different buildings.

You could say why one is better than the other or which are worth the money/time.

1) Give the Level Range (i.e. 50-75 or 117+).
2) Give the buildings to compare.
3) Give the reasonings in your comparisons.



If you know how, it would be much appreciated if you put your post in a different color when doing a direct answer to the thread to stand out among the discussion, thank you.


*This may turn out to be a VERY INFORMATIVE THREAD for new and old players, so let's give it a try! I know I'll learn a lot for later on.

**Many of you know very much on this topic and your input would be valued here.

[Dreno33]

could we get some feedback? or is it confusing what I am asking/saying in this thread?

[Feng1234]

I think this is too much work and there's quite a bit of info. On this subject already. But good initiative.

[Dreno33]

i just so annoyed with all the damn arguing lately. thought it would be nice to remind people why we are here. This discussion would be very useful to many people who aren't positive in what to buy/upgrade. That was my intention.

[Bala82]

The problem is that if we make a suggestion someone else would argue that your wrong and it get into argument which why i keep my opinion to myself. I would rather see what people are suggesting.

Number 3 is rather tricky to answer

[white frog]

I think the big reason, Dreno, why this thread probably won't get as much attention as you want it to is because, just like with camping, comparing buildings can be done on so many different levels. Each player will have his/her own style in determining which building to build/upgrade.
For example, when comparing two buildings to determine which is more valuable, you can make one conclusion based on income/hour, which may be a totally different conclusion based on income/square/hour. I, for one, take the real estate value into consideration at certain times in determining a buildings net value. Others will look at ROI, while others will look at which will give the largest hourly income gain the quickest. Others will lean more toward the actual building payout time based on their collection schedule.
All of these factors will determine a different value for the same building, based on what is important to the individual!

[Dreno33]

exactly my point White Frog. We need another type of discussion that does exactly this. Too much BS arguing lately that I myself fell victim to with Dravak in one thread. We want contrasting opinions. And for people to argue their opinions in an unheated manner. Just sick of all the childish yelling

[msjo]

I find myself uncertain sometimes whether to build new buildings or upgrade existing ones. Recently I had a big robbing spite art a nice uncollected hood and found an extra $250,000 while I had a long upgrade going, so decided to build a comedy club rather than bank the money for my next upgrade. Probably not the best economic choice, but I liked the feeling of immediate return on robbing that it gave me and since it was "found" money, it doesn't slow down my other plans. I hate to waste build time by not having something building, but it also seems pointless to build buildings that are not that great just to build something. I did build a warehouse just to clear the goal from my list because I had the space in my hood that wouldn't be needed until after my warehouse had paid itself off, so I figured I could build it, take a small profit, then sell it when I actually had the money to build a loft in its place.

[Maniaxe]

Dreno you also have to remember that part of the reason the forums is a bit staler, is the game has been poured over relentlessly. Most game objectives and theories are easily found by a quick search. I wrote a thorough article on our current situation, but I felt in the end it would only bring more negativity and withheld the submission. There is also the fact that the game is lacking new content, there really is little known about the game that has not been picked apart already. I could go into it further but I don't want to derail your thread.

That being said I have to run but Ill come back and edit a post that pertains to the topic.

[white frog]

Well, Dreno, if you want to get the discussion started, why don't you go first... I'll stay tuned and engage in the discussion!

[Silvio]

I'll start. I'll have a upgrade coming ready tomorrow, and I am debating my choices. I expect to have only $4M available. I could either wait until I have enough to upgrade my condo ($13M), lofts ($9.8M), or upscale clubs ($11M), or I could dump it on a cheap long upgrade like Dominican ($2.7M), or crematorium ($2M). Or I could use time as the factor, given it is the weekend I could get a couple of cheap ones in (like flower shop, $0.8M, art house cinema, $0.75M).

Strictly following my strategy to date, I would choose the highest ROI I can afford, which would mean underboss house at $4.1M. However I don't optimize my play around 3 hr. buildings, so I tend to gravitate towards 12 hr and 24 hr buildings.

My gut says go Dominican, from lbl 6 to 7.

[murf]

I'll start. I'll have a upgrade coming ready tomorrow, and I am debating my choices. I expect to have only $4M available. I could either wait until I have enough to upgrade my condo ($13M), lofts ($9.8M), or upscale clubs ($11M), or I could dump it on a cheap long upgrade like Dominican ($2.7M), or crematorium ($2M). Or I could use time as the factor, given it is the weekend I could get a couple of cheap ones in (like flower shop, $0.8M, art house cinema, $0.75M).

Strictly following my strategy to date, I would choose the highest ROI I can afford, which would mean underboss house at $4.1M. However I don't optimize my play around 3 hr. buildings, so I tend to gravitate towards 12 hr and 24 hr buildings.

My gut says go Dominican, from lbl 6 to 7.

What I do if I can't afford my primary upgrade (NC L3 right now), then I take the highest ROI building where it's (upgrade cost + lost wages) / upgrade time is less then 25% of my effective IpH. This way I'm still saving 75% for my priorities while doing highly profitable upgrades.

[Dreno33]

Well, Dreno, if you want to get the discussion started, why don't you go first... I'll stay tuned and engage in the discussion!

DEAL!

well we ALL KNOW that all 5 mafia buildings (besides the gun shop) are well worth the investment. (maybe not the italian restaurants in the HLs)

The following is just my opinion b/c I am not to this level yet and never experimented in my old acct.

1) Level 45
2) Fancy Restaurant vs Art House Cinema
3) The Art House Cinema is by far a much more valued building, not only for its bigger payouts. But, if you look at a lvl 4 AHC and a lvl 5 FR, it proves it pays out much better:


Name
Level
Income
Chain Cost


Fancy R.
5
$ 8,800
$ 4,831,468


Art H. C.
4
$ 10,450
$ 4,552,363


DIFFERENCE
1
+$ 1,650
+$ 278,832



SUMMARY: save 278.8k and earn 1.7k more every 3 hours

As you can see, these follow the same path as the Movie Theater vs the Loft do.



Name
Level
Income
Chain Cost


Movie T.
7
$ 96,100
$ 7,360,565


Loft
4
$ 110,000
$ 7,688,435


DIFFERENCE
3
+$ 13,900
-$ 327,870



SUMMARY: Spend 327.9k more and earn $13.9k more every 12 hours.




Hows that, White Frog?(:

[msjo]

The comparisons Dreno makes above tend to obscure the difference in initial investment required which strikes me as an important factor. While ultimately the loft is a better building than a movie theater, you need income generating buildings to save the money to build a loft. Building and upgrading a movie theater is one of the best ways to generate enough income to save for the 760k outlay to build the loft. In a lesser way, the same is true of the other two, though if you already have upgraded lofts and movie theaters maybe it would be easier to go straight to the art house.

[white frog]

The comparisons Dreno makes above tend to obscure the difference in initial investment required which strikes me as an important factor. While ultimately the loft is a better building than a movie theater, you need income generating buildings to save the money to build a loft. Building and upgrading a movie theater is one of the best ways to generate enough income to save for the 760k outlay to build the loft. In a lesser way, the same is true of the other two, though if you already have upgraded lofts and movie theaters maybe it would be easier to go straight to the art house.
This would entirely be based on your current income and bank roll. For example, my current income is $122k per hour. It would take me 2.21 hours to save for the Fancy, + 16 hours of build = 18.21 hours and $366.67 hourly increase.
It would take me 3.68 hours to save for the AHC, + 6 hours of build = 9.68 hours and $633.33 hourly increase.

You tell me which one will increase my econ faster...

But... which one will increase the value of my hood more efficiently???
At level 1 for each, the real estate value is $10.19 and $11.31. Not that much difference yet. At level 10, it's $305.56 and $339.29. Still not that much difference, with this scenario. Both options are pretty low values though, compared to the Loft, which has this same value at level 6.

[Dreno33]

Of course, no doubt about it msjo. but i was assuming people have SOMEWHAT of an economy at this point if they know about the forums(: haha

[white frog]

Hows that, White Frog?(:
How bout something a little more difficult?? Let's compare Art House Cinema and Brownstone... good luck!

[Dreno33]

How bout something a little more difficult?? Let's compare Art House Cinema and Brownstone... good luck!

lol :P maybe later, I'm distracting myself from my essays, lmao

EDIT: btw, its your turn to make an OP post(:

[white frog]

lol :P maybe later, I'm distracting myself from my essays, lmao

EDIT: btw, its your turn to make an OP post(:
Alright then... if you're scared, here goes...

At a current $122k per hour:
Lvl 1 Brownstone takes 3.28 hours to save for, 48 hours to build = 51.28 hours for $500 per hour growth.
Lvl 1 Art House C. takes 3.69 hours to save for, 6 hours to build = 9.69 hours for $633 per hour growth.

Seems like the Art House is a better choice, right... hmmmm. Like I said, depends on your play style.

At lvl 10, Art House real estate value = $339.29
At lvl 10, Brownstone real estate value = $416.67
There's a change from the above conclusion!!!

But wait!! The Art House is a 3 hour building. What if I only can collect on my 3 hour buildings 6 time per day???

Art House lvl 1 = $11,400 per day ($475/hr.)
Brownstone = $12,000 per day ($500/hr.)

Art House lvl 10 = $342,000 per day ($14,250/hr)
Brownstone = $360,000 per day ($15,000/hr.)

To raise the Art House to level 10 would take 639.39 hrs and $112,647,274
To raise the Brownstone to level 10 would take 795.66 and $100,130,910

The difference here is Brownstone takes 156.27 more hours, but cost $12,516,364 less.
At $122k (I know this changes over the life of upgrading) I would make just over $19 mil in that 156 hours. So does this mean the Art House is the more valuable building????

Many different angles to look at the exact same thing, and this is why there is no right answer!

[ShawnBB]

How bout something a little more difficult?? Let's compare Art House Cinema and Brownstone... good luck!

That's actually easier man, simply because they unlock at different levels. LoL
Since their IpH/ROI coefficient are both in good condition, I will just get AHC when it unlocks and get brownstone later when i reach the lvl it unlocks.
What dreno comparing was the most difficult condition that needs you to make decisions between two building that could be available at the same time.:)

[white frog]

What dreno comparing was the most difficult condition that needs you to make decisions between two building that could be available at the same time.:)
Refer to the original post. He makes no mention of buildings opening at the same level... it's a comparison of 2 building's worth, regardless of level. Even still, I don't guess it matters, does it?

You are correct, though. At least if you don't plan on leveling up from 45 - 51 in those 639.39 hours (that's 26 days, btw).

[ShawnBB]

Refer to the original post. He makes no mention of buildings opening at the same level... it's a comparison of 2 building's worth, regardless of level. Even still, I don't guess it matters, does it?

You are correct, though. At least if you don't plan on leveling up from 45 - 51 in those 639.39 hours (that's 26 days, btw).

I respect your scientific attitude toward all the details about the data.

But the prerequisite for unlocking that building is a very serious factor in comparing.
Upscale club is one of the top worth buildings IMO due to its early lvl unlock and a decent quality. That's why recently a long infomative thread suggest us to bump up upscale before start the saving of NC.

I also saw one of your threads listed the worth getting value for every gold building by taking their IpH divided by gold cost and area. Which is wrong,because you didn't put the level unlock, the gold building's equivalent cash value and it's quality into consideration.
In another word,techno club is a very high quality building and very worth to get at he lvl it unlocked,but at the bottom of the list, while Gaming parlor is a low quality gold building and completely trash at the lvl it unlocked but at the middle of the list.

Moreover, every typeB building should be left at lvl4 or 5 at most to maintain its best value and save that money to the next more expensive TypeB. Don't even think about lvl10 for any mid game building unless you finished casino and has no new TypeB building to build or even those better typeAs.

[enahs1]

Of course, no doubt about it msjo. but i was assuming people have SOMEWHAT of an economy at this point if they know about the forums(: haha
I have no economy :(

[joaquim]

I have no economy :(

Don't worry about it too much. You're 8 levels lower than me and have an IPH of $1000 more than me. I've got it worse.

[enahs1]

That's not updated, hold on a sec

[Plumbernick9]

DEAL!

well we ALL KNOW that all 5 mafia buildings (besides the gun shop) are well worth the investment. (maybe not the italian restaurants in the HLs)

The following is just my opinion b/c I am not to this level yet and never experimented in my old acct.

1) Level 45
2) Fancy Restaurant vs Art House Cinema
3) The Art House Cinema is by far a much more valued building, not only for its bigger payouts. But, if you look at a lvl 4 AHC and a lvl 5 FR, it proves it pays out much better:


Name
Level
Income
Chain Cost


Fancy R.
5
$ 8,800
$ 4,831,468


Art H. C.
4
$ 10,450
$ 4,552,363


DIFFERENCE
1
+$ 1,650
+$ 278,832



SUMMARY: save 278.8k and earn 1.7k more every 3 hours

As you can see, these follow the same path as the Movie Theater vs the Loft do.



Name
Level
Income
Chain Cost


Movie T.
7
$ 96,100
$ 7,360,565


Loft
4
$ 110,000
$ 7,688,435


DIFFERENCE
3
+$ 13,900
-$ 327,870



SUMMARY: Spend 327.9k more and earn $13.9k more every 12 hours.




Hows that, White Frog?(:
What do you mean by "mafia" building?

[Dreno33]

mafia buildings = buildings unlocked by acquiring a certain amount of mafia

Gun shop: 5 mafia
Italian Restaurant: 15 mafia
Movie Theater: 50 mafia
Loft: 100 mafia
Night Club: 300 mafia

[PawnXIIX]

But wait!! The Art House is a 3 hour building. What if I only can collect on my 3 hour buildings 6 time per day???

Art House lvl 1 = $11,400 per day ($475/hr.)
Brownstone = $12,000 per day ($500/hr.)

finally somebody actually factors in imperfect collection strategies. It's like the laundromats, there's no way you're going to make all 288 collections a day. People seem to be factoring in their buildings like they collect their 3 hours buildings perfectly on time 8 times a day and everybody knows that unless you have a timer, an alarm, minus one social life that's impossible. I mean...I personally sleep sometimes and I also have a job to tend to. People seem to deal too much in the theoretics of the game in some aspects but in reality they actually need to take a step back and say okay...what and I physically able to do?

Just my personal views on the calculations people make about how it should take them to collect enough money to afford structures ^^

[John Snow]

In about 12 hours I'll have the following choice, either build:
A) Dominican Restaurant
B) Wholesale Warehouse
C) Add 7 more mafia and get the Movie Theater

I have the space and cash for any of the buildings. Any recommendations?

[joaquim]

In about 12 hours I'll have the following choice, either build:
A) Dominican Restaurant
B) Wholesale Warehouse
C) Add 7 more mafia and get the Movie Theater

I have the space and cash for any of the buildings. Any recommendations?

Avoid the Wholesale Warehouse. If you're gonna take 18 hour buildings take T-Shirt Stands. I'd take Dominican on this one since it's a 24 hour collection giving you $8800 at tycoon. Movie Theater is among the best buildings in the game, but it's a 12 hour collection with $3410 something at tycoon for a grand total of around $6820 per day $1980 less than Domincan. And the Dominican costs $15000 less to build.

[ShawnBB]

In about 12 hours I'll have the following choice, either build:
A) Dominican Restaurant
B) Wholesale Warehouse
C) Add 7 more mafia and get the Movie Theater

I have the space and cash for any of the buildings. Any recommendations?

Listen to joaquim! :)

What is your income btw, did you camp or just normally level up?

[joaquim]

Listen to joaquim! :)

What is your income btw?

Not very good only at $18907. Once I get my second Ice Cream Shop to level 10 I'm going economy mode.

[PawnXIIX]

A) Dominican Restaurant
B) Wholesale Warehouse
C) Add 7 more mafia and get the Movie Theater

If you are going to keep them at level 1, Dominican. If you are going to upgrade them as quickly as possible, then I suggest the Movie Theater.

Whereas the Movie Theater starts out at $3,100/$3,410 and the Dominican starts out at $8,000/$8,800 the Movie Theater gains my approval because it is a Type A building. This means that the upgrade to level 2 will bring a 200% increase in the production, and by level 3 you have increased the original production by a factor of 6.

By level 2 the dominican is producing $16,000/$17,600 a day and the Movie Theater is producing $18,600/$20,460 a day.

By level 3 the dominican is producing $28,000/$30,800 per day and the Movie Theater is producing $37,200/$40,920 per day

Construction and upgrade costs for getting the Domincan to level 3: $682,363 (8:00:00 construction + 19:00:00 upgrades)
Construction upgrade costs for getting the Movie Theater to level 3: $764,246 (8:00:00 construction + 11:00:00 upgrades)

The movie theater does cost a little more, but lets look at the break even ROI for both of those constutions (with tycoon):
Level 3 Movie theater: $764,246/$1,705 = 448.2381 hours
Level 3 Dominican: $682,363/$1,283 = 531.8496 hours

In this case the type B building (Dominican Restaurant) makes more money at level 1, but the type A building (Movie Theater) quickly catches up and even surpasses the daily income potential of the domincan after just 1 upgrade. Long term, the Movie Theater is the better choice statistic wise. It may cost $15,000 more, but in the long run you will make that money back and more in a faster time frame than in the case of the Dominican.

Plus I like to make sure my buildings both can be collected at the same time. It is much easier to upgrade and plan when it can be collected with the 12 hours buildings because if I accidentally miss the exact timing, then I don't have to wait the entire next day to attempt the upgrade again. No real statistics to back that up, just personal preference :P

Example: 12 hour upgrade lasts 30 hours, so I will initiate the upgrade when the other building has 6 hours until it is collected, so that way then will both stay on the same collection cycle.

Easy caclulation: Upgrade Time (mod) Collection Period = Time to wait before collection to upgrade
Example: 12 hour building will take 47 hours to upgrade.
47 % 12 = 11 hours left on the other building. So when that other building says "Collect in: 11:00:00" then you start the upgrade. This tends to work out best with even divisions, but you'll never have more than an hour between the collection times after this :)

Defense rests.

[ShawnBB]

Not very good only at $18907. Once I get my second Ice Cream Shop to level 10 I'm going economy mode.

Wait a minute, so you already have around 19000 IpH before reaching those three buildings! You have a good money pumping ability.

Plan changing, go finish 2 lvl2 MT first, then turn back to build lvl1 Dominican, lvl1 wholesale, finish lvl3 MT in the end.


Edit: Lol, that was funny,I thought he replied! Joa I can see your income through signature:(

[Dreno33]

BRAVO pawn!!! Clap clap clap clap clap clap!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAryFIuRxmQ

that post was worthy of this video. I hope those who are confused at the many ways to look at money buildings and how to quickly gain income/hour read this. It is well-summarized.

[John Snow]

Wait a minute, so you already have around 19000 IpH before reaching those three buildings! You have a good money pumping ability.

Plan changing, go finish 2 lvl2 MT first, then turn back to build lvl1 Dominican, lvl1 wholesale, finish lvl3 MT in the end.


Edit: Lol, that was funny,I thought he replied! Joa I can see your income through signature:(


My IPH is $22,920. I got into MW for awhile and let CC sit for a month before I started getting back into it. Looks like I have two votes for the Movie Theater (Pawn and Shawn- rhymes!) and Joaquim's for the Dominican. MT it is.

[PawnXIIX]

Ah thanks for the video that seemed to really explain it :P

I realized the quick income jumps of the Movie Theaters so now I have both them at level 5 and it's almost collection time for the Dominicans so I'll upgrade the first to level 5.

Two theaters at level 5 = $204,600/day or $8,525/hour
Two restaurants at level 4 = $96,800/day or $4,034/hour

As of now I have spent $2.5M on each theater and 1.26M on each dominican

For those of you who saw my post and are confused about what I mean by Type A/Type B buildings see here (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?13183-Payout-algorithm-explained) <-- clicky :)

[ShawnBB]

For those of you who saw my post and are confused about what I mean by Type A/Type B buildings see here (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?13183-Payout-algorithm-explained) <-- clicky :)


What the hell happened to TS's avatar...
http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/ShawnBBB/7973ab32.jpg

[PawnXIIX]

No idea but I remember it used to be a cartoon picture of a guy with kisses all over him, then it was a trollface...and now, well you can see :P

[Euchred]

lol very descriptive of his name in a good way.

[Bala82]

Well let try something different

Safehouse VS Muay Thai Center

A lot people would suggest Muay over the Safehouse because it has higher defence

Safehouse Level 1 cost 7500 (Defence 9)
Muay Thai Center Level 1 cost 16000 (Defence 18)

If space was issue than of course Muay Thai Center but if not 2 Safehouse at level 1 would cost 15000 would give you same defence .

Assuming you will not upgrade them past level 2 or 3.

I am just curious whether any more on this since this is what i am currently thinking about.

[Dreno33]

@Bala ~ ALMOST EVERY forum member would argue that any defense buildings other than the 3 turrets (machine, gatling, and missile) are useless and not worth the space nor time

[PawnXIIX]

Whereas similarly in the cases of many other buildings, there are differences in later levels of the buildings. However, these two buildings are equivalent at every single level when it comes to their actual attack defense. This is not the defense that is shown on your profile screen.

Lets assume you have them at level 3 shall we?
Attack Defense of Safehouse: (9 + 4.5 + 4.5) = 18
Attack Defense of Muay Thai: (18 + 9 + 9) = 36

At level 4:
Attack Defense of Safehouse: (9 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4.5) = 22.5
Attack Defense of Muay Thai: (18 + 9 + 9 + 9) = 45

And level 5:
Attack Defense of Safehouse: (9 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4.5) = 27
Attack Defense of Muay Thai: (18+ 9 + 9 + 9 + 9) = 54

As you can see there is NO benefit from the two buildings when it comes to their defense values.

Build cost:

Level 3 Safehouse: $40,941
Level 3 Muay Thai: $87,342

So in order to get the same attack defense from these two buildings, you'd be look at a total cost of $81,882 for the safehouse and $87,342 for the Muay Thai center.

So now you're thinking "Oh, that's...less!". No.

The Safehouse takes up 25 sidewalk squares while the Muay Thai takes up a mere 16. When you take into account you need 2 safe houses, that's 50 sidewalks squares that are being used up. Taking into account this space:

Defense per square:

Level 3 Safehouse: 54 / 50 = 1.08 Defense/Square
Level 3 Muay Thai: 54 / 16 = 3.375 Defense/Square

In the long run that is smaller, and you get more defense per square of your precious land. You are getting a 3.125:1 ratio of defense to space with the Muay Thai over the Safehouse. According to that ratio, the Muay Thai center has a theoretical cost of $255,881 (the ratio of 3.125:1). You are getting a building that is 3.125 times more efficient at providing defense at a cost that is only 1.06x more.

According to that data, even though they have the same attack defense you are getting far higher of a bang for your buck in terms of the size of the building and the defense given per square.

TL;DR - Muay Thai for days even though there are better defense buildings out there

[ShawnBB]

Whereas similarly in the cases of many other buildings, there are differences in later levels of the buildings. However, these two buildings off the start are similar until level 5.

Lets assume you have them at level 3 shall we?

Attack Defense of Safehouse: (9 + 4.5 + 4.5) = 18
Attack Defense of Muay Thai: (18 + 9 + 9) = 36

And level 5:

Attack Defense of Safehouse: (9 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4.5) = 27
Attack Defense of Muay Thai: (18+ 9 + 9 + 9 + 9) = 54

Level 9:

Attack Defense of Safehouse: (9 + (8 * 4.5)) = 45
Attack Defense of Muay Thai: (18 + (8 * 9)) = 90

As you can see there is little benefit from the two buildings when it comes to their defense.

Build cost:

Level 3 Safehouse: $40,941
Level 3 Muay Thai: $87,342

So in order to get the same attack defense from these two buildings, you'd be look at a total cost of $81,882 for the safehouse and $87,342 for the Muay Thai center.

So now you're thinking "Oh, that's...less!". No.

The Safehouse takes up 25 sidewalk squares while the Muay Thai takes up a mere 16. When you take into account you need 2 safe houses, that's 50 sidewalks squares that are being used up. Taking into account this space:

Defense per square:

Level 3 Safehouse: 54 / 50 = 1.08 Defense
Level 3 Muay Thai: 54 / 16 = 3.375 Defense

In the long run that is smaller, and you get more defense per square of your precious land. You are getting a 3.125:1 ratio of defense to space with the Muay Thai over the Safehouse. According to that ratio, the Muay Thai center has a theoretical cost of $255,881 (the ratio of 3.125:1).

According to that data, even though they have the same attack defense you are getting far higher of a bang for your buck in terms of the size of the building and the defense given per square.

TL;DR - Muay Thai for days even though there are better defense buildings out there

Can I just cut it short?
When talking about money buildings we care more about their quality and cost not space, because they have a cap of 2
But when talking about the defense buildings we care more about their space not quality and cost, because they have a cap of 50.
That's it:)

[Dreno33]

Can I just cut it short?
When talking about money buildings we care more about their quality not space, because they have a cap of 2
But when talking about the defense buildings we care more about their space not quality, because they have a cap of 50.
That's it:)

+1 which, bala, supports my previous post:


@Bala ~ ALMOST EVERY forum member would argue that any defense buildings other than the 3 turrets (machine, gatling, and missile) are useless and not worth the space nor time

[PawnXIIX]

Touche.

If you are concerned about the defense provided per square, you are getting an INSANE value for the muay thai center, it is extremely undervalued in terms of the price tag when compared next to the safehouse.

But yes I do agree with that comment but I just felt like throwing a bunch of numbers and actually "comparing" them :)

[Bala82]

@Bala ~ ALMOST EVERY forum member would argue that any defense buildings other than the 3 turrets (machine, gatling, and missile) are useless and not worth the space nor time

Yes i know but i thought point of this topic open up alternative discussion in comparing buildings. Don't you think it be one sided if we only compared money buildings. I just put it out there to see what people think.

Pawn thank you for the effort because this is my current issue since i moved one of buildings i had free space decided what defence buildings i should get, i don't want my hood too many guns.

[ShawnBB]

Touche.

If you are concerned about the defense provided per square, you are getting an INSANE value for the muay thai center, it is extremely undervalued in terms of the price tag when compared next to the safehouse.

But yes I do agree with that comment but I just felt like throwing a bunch of numbers and actually "comparing" them :)

Buddy, this game maybe needs a little more than pure math. No offense :).

First of all, you do not need to consider what the trends of value will go after the upgrading.
-- On one hand, all of them have the same growth pattern which is stats grow at a pattern of x,2x,3.5x ...... Cost grow at a pattern of x,(5/3)x,((5/3)^2)x......
Lvl 1 is all you need to compare(only for same TypeB or A), if it's behind initially it will fall behind at a same rate as the lvl goes up.
-- On the other hand, we don't put any consideration in upgrading defense buildings above lvl2, simply for the upgrading time opportunity cost is too much. Personally I will never even upgrade them.

Second of all, there is absolutely no need to consider its price! Yes, I said that,lol.
Square per defense is all you need to care,all you need to care,that's it! why is that case?
because the defense score is fake:) And the actually reason by massive building turrets is just due to there is nothing for you to build and it is not gonna hurt your Econ by building them, not because that they can protect you, feel that?
If def building is too costy for you, then don't build it until its cost becomes a minor issue.

[PawnXIIX]

I know...but he asked to compare the two of those buildings so I did it :)

And I know building defense shown in the profile is just a facade. I know the defense of a building against an attack is:

where n is the level:
Base + ((n-1)(base / 2))

The only reason I even tried to throw stats at it was because i'm just so bored over here that I wanted to do math xD

[Feng1234]

So hum for the pros, should I build any machine turrets or should I just wait until gattling opens up at 47? One thing I still fail to understand is why you stop leveling them at 3?

[murf]

I built a few of them when I had downtime in-between money builds, but they were not a priority....

Read the Update Best of Best Peacock post about defense...the short answer: actual defense does not equal profile defense for defense buildings and the more you upgrade, the larger the difference

[murf]

Can I just cut it short?
When talking about money buildings we care more about their quality and cost not space, because they have a cap of 2
But when talking about the defense buildings we care more about their space not quality and cost, because they have a cap of 50.
That's it:)

Agreed, defense buildings are very cheap vs money buildings, so I don't even think defense / $$ really should come into the equation. It's really all about defense / sq and that means the turrets dominate.

[Feng1234]

Love reading your thoughts murf.

[murf]

Love reading your thoughts murf.

Thanks....Glad someone does

[Bala82]

So hum for the pros, should I build any machine turrets or should I just wait until gattling opens up at 47? One thing I still fail to understand is why you stop leveling them at 3?

Yes you should build them as soon as they become avaliable.

You don't level up past level 3 because inflate your actual defence by 50%.

[joaquim]

Thanks....Glad someone does

I like reading your thoughts too.

[Paulio]

i don't want my hood too many guns.

Bala, IMO, that's not a very good reason to shun a good defensive building for another that takes up more space. Like other posters have said - space is the primary factor when comparing def buildings. My hood has 50 gatling turrets and 1 machine gun turret ... But you can't see any of them. PM me if you want my code and you can see for yourself.

[Bala82]

I already about 15 machine gun turret Guns and about 5 of them are hidden. All are going at level 2. When gatling turrets opens up planing on replace machine gun with these.

Right now i have A good defence since i haven't lost any money in almost 2 weeks . I don't want add any more until i need them. That's from both attack and robberies :). Until i start losing money i won't buy anymore guns

[jobadass]

IMO there really is no point for upgrading any building that isn't on a 12/24/48 hr collection time. Hard to keep synced.
That being said; I think the upscales at level 2+ are great, as are the Rock Cafes. I know that NCs level 2+ are on paper, the best money maker, but I would probably only collect 2.5/day on average. So I am not building them.

[Dreno33]

IMO there really is no point for upgrading any building that isn't on a 12/24/48 hr collection time. Hard to keep synced.
That being said; I think the upscales at level 2+ are great, as are the Rock Cafes. I know that NCs level 2+ are on paper, the best money maker, but I would probably only collect 2.5/day on average. So I am not building them.

you are right, with a low lvl NC compared to other end game 12-48 hour buildings. but as you level these buildings throughout your gameplay, the NC (by far) is the biggest moneymaker

[jobadass]

you are right, with a low lvl NC compared to other end game 12-48 hour buildings. but as you level these buildings throughout your gameplay, the NC (by far) is the biggest moneymaker
If NCs paid the same, or even 75% percent of the iph, but were on a 12 hr schedule, I'd be in love with them.
I don't want to discourage others from buying and upgrading them, they are my fav to rob:)

[murf]

IMO there really is no point for upgrading any building that isn't on a 12/24/48 hr collection time. Hard to keep synced.
That being said; I think the upscales at level 2+ are great, as are the Rock Cafes. I know that NCs level 2+ are on paper, the best money maker, but I would probably only collect 2.5/day on average. So I am not building them.

I assume the I collect my NC every 9 hrs (or 2.67 a day) and the way I look at things it was still the best building, and even with my nightclub currently at L3 & L2, they are still they best upgrades that I have available...

So when you analyze your buildings make an adjustment to how often you realistically collect, and I guarantee you NCs are very high on the list, unless you can only collect in the AM and PM (collect 2 robbed NCs)

[jobadass]

I assume the I collect my NC every 9 hrs (or 2.67 a day) and the way I look at things it was still the best building, and even with my nightclub currently at L3 & L2, they are still they best upgrades that I have available...

So when you analyze your buildings make an adjustment to how often you realistically collect, and I guarantee you NCs are very high on the list, unless you can only collect in the AM and PM (collect 2 robbed NCs)NCs are on a 6 hr schedule.
If you wake at 6:00am and collect you collect again at noon. Again at 6:00pm...but youve worked all day and sleep right through midnight collection. You wake again at 6, collect your 40% then 100% at noon and 100% at 6:00, of course you worked hard all day so you miss collecting at midnight.
and it repeats.
I said in my op that I figure a 2.5 collection, and I was being optimistic

[murf]

NCs are on a 6 hr schedule.
If you wake at 6:00am and collect you collect again at noon. Again at 6:00pm...but youve worked all day and sleep right through midnight collection. You wake again at 6, collect your 40% then 100% at noon and 100% at 6:00, of course you worked hard all day so you miss collecting at midnight.
and it repeats.
I said in my op that I figure a 2.5 collection, and I was being optimistic

You're not understanding me...sometimes I collect all 4, so I am conservative and I assume on average I collect 2.67. You have to use what is appropriate for you, and even if you only collect 2.4 x's/day; NC's when upgrading to L2 & L3 blow away any 12/24 that you collect 100% (which is optimistic)

[jobadass]

You're not understanding me...sometimes I collect all 4, so I am conservative and I assume on average I collect 2.67. You have to use what is appropriate for you, and even if you only collect 2.4 x's/day; NC's when upgrading to L2 & L3 blow away any 12/24 that you collect 100% (which is optimistic)
I'm not saying NCs are a bad idea for you, but for me. I have a hard enough time collecting my 12hr buildings. I know that NCs would give that instant iph gratification, but I would only collect 40%, 1/2 of the time.
My point is that building NCs would increase my rivals' income just as much as mine (kinda sorta)

[joaquim]

So who wants to accept the challenge of comparing the Flower Shop and the Underboss's House?

[murf]

I'm not saying NCs are a bad idea for you, but for me. I have a hard enough time collecting my 12hr buildings. I know that NCs would give that instant iph gratification, but I would only collect 40%, 1/2 of the time.
My point is that building NCs would increase my rivals' income just as much as mine (kinda sorta)

OK...well I kinda sorta said that in the 2nd paragraph that you quoted:

So when you analyze your buildings make an adjustment to how often you realistically collect, and I guarantee you NCs are very high on the list, unless you can only collect in the AM and PM (collect 2 robbed NCs)

[PawnXIIX]

The Flower Shop and the Underboss House are both type B buildings.

Flower Shop: $500,000 cost with 24:00:00 build time
Underboss House: $1,500,000 cost with 32:00:00 build time

I shall once again only be comparing to level 3, because I suppose by level 3 for these structures you'll have had enough money to construct the other building and then some.

Flower shop income per hour: (Based upon collections per 8 hour periods)
Level 1: $575/$633 at $4,600/$5,060
Level 2: $1,150/$1,265 at $9,200/$10,120
Level 3: $2,012.5/$2,214 at $16,100/$17,710

Daily income total: $48,300/$53,130

Underboss House income per hour: (Based upon collections per 3 hour periods)
Level 1: $1,466/$1,613 at $4,400/$4,840
Level 2: $2,933/$3,227 at $8,800/$9,680
Level 3: $5,133/$5,647 at $15,400/$16,940

Daily income total: $123,200/$135,520

Flower Shop build/upgrade cost to level 3: $2,729,450 + 24:00:00 construction + 24:57:36 upgrade
Underboss House build/upgrade cost to level 3: $8,188,350 + 32:00:00 construction + 30:00:00 upgrade

Ratio of Cost: 3 (Underboss house) : 1 (Flower Shop)
Ratio of Daily Income:
Non-Tycoon: 2.551 (Underboss house) : 1 (Flower Shop)
Tycoon: 2.545 : 1 (Underboss house) : 1 (Flower Shop)

So up to this point the flower shop seems to be the better choice. The Underboss House is expected to make 3x as much money per day as the flower shop since it is 3x the cost for constructions and upgrades, however this is not the case. The Underboss House averages just 2.5x the income as the flower shop at level 3. According to this, the flower shop is actually undervalued in comparison to the Underboss house, making it an overall cheaper construction. However, to truly drive the point home let's compare some more statistics.

ROI for Underboss House level 3:
Non - Tycoon: $8,188,350/$5,133 = 1,595.237 hours
Tycoon: $8,188,350/$5,647 = 1,450.035 hours

ROI for Flower Shop level 3:
Non - Tycoon: $2,729,450/$2,012.5 = 1,356.248 hours
Tycoon: $2,729,450/$2,214 = 1,232.814 hours

As you can see, not only is it undervalued in comparison to the Underboss House, it is also going to provide you with a much quicker ROI even though it is only producing a fraction of the amount the Underboss House is per day.

Now let's look at how much the building is returning to us based on the footprint of the building.

Area:
Underboss House: 5x5 - 25 squares
Flower Shop: 4x4 - 16 squares

Yield/Square:
Non - Tycoon Underboss House: $123,200, yielding $4,928 per square/day
Tycoon Underboss House: $135,520 per day, yielding $5,420.8 per square/day

Non - Tycoon Flower Shop: $48,300, yielding $3,108 per square/day
Tycoon Flower Shop: $53,130, yielding $3,320.625 per square/day



In conclusion: If there is a space problem in your hood and you like slower returning investments that take up more space and cost more to construct and take more time...then you're good with the Underboss House. It may return more money per day with the Underboss House, but you'll be seeing more of that money kept rather than throwing it all back into the same construction immediately when you build the Flower Shop. The Flower Shop is undervalued with the construction costs even though it is slightly bigger footprint wise in comparison the the Underboss House, but 4x4 is still a very small building and will not take up much room. With a higher ROI it is very hard to go wrong with the building that is also even available earlier in your leveling up process.


My choice: Flower Shop

[Dreno33]

The flower shop and Brownstone, IMO, are both must-haves. But if someone were to begin one before the other (if both buildings were already unlocked) i'd pick flower shop as well.

1) 4x4s can practically always fit somewhere in your hood
2) the COMPLETE chain cost to lvl 10 is only 25m more
3) 8-hour buildings are very easy to collect 98% of the time


!! Flower Shop !!
! WINNER WINNER ! CHICKEN DINNER !

[ShawnBB]

Great job pawn!
You nailed the original purpose of this thread, I actually was off topic for those precious posts lol.

Very interested in what do you think of the ratio of IpH/ROI,because that's what I'm using right now to decide what is my next high value upgrade,but I feel a little hard to explain it.

[murf]

The flower shop and Brownstone, IMO, are both must-haves. But if someone were to begin one before the other (if both buildings were already unlocked) i'd pick flower shop as well.

1) 4x4s can practically always fit somewhere in your hood
2) the COMPLETE chain cost to lvl 10 is only 25m more
3) 8-hour buildings are very easy to collect 98% of the time


!! Flower Shop !!
! WINNER WINNER ! CHICKEN DINNER !

I'm sitting at $822k/hr, and both my Flower Shops are still sitting at L1...my problem with them is I never found the right time to upgrade them...they were never my priority (currently 2nd NC L3), and for my secondary upgrades I focus on cheap ROI, and there were always better options there too....they are finally getting close to be my one of my better ROI mid-level upgrades, but Beachside Inns, Brownstones and a few others are still marginally better ROI upgrades & better $$/hr too.

Either way, I still think they are a must-have building.

[Dreno33]

I'm sitting at $822k/hr, and both my Flower Shops are still sitting at L1...my problem with them is I never found the right time to upgrade them...they were never my priority (currently 2nd NC L3), and for my secondary upgrades I focus on cheap ROI, and there were always better options there too....they are finally getting close to be my one of my better ROI mid-level upgrades, but Beachside Inns, Brownstones and a few others are still marginally better ROI upgrades & better $$/hr too.

Either way, I still think they are a must-have building.

do you collect your flower shops almost always? 90%+? if so, the ROI would actually be better, right? b/c the upgrade times are much smaller AND you get to divide the income by (2.8 - 3) which is actually a much better ROI

P.S. love the IPH you get to show off(:

[murf]

do you collect your flower shops almost always? 90%+? if so, the ROI would actually be better, right? b/c the upgrade times are much smaller AND you get to divide the income by (2.8 - 3) which is actually a much better ROI

P.S. love the IPH you get to show off(:

Thanks...

I use 11 HRs as my adjusted collection time for my 8-hr buildings...I collect 3 about 50% and 1.4-2 about 50%.

So using 11 Hrs for my 8's and 27 Hrs for my 24's, I see

Beachside Inn (currently L3)
- $27,500 Upgrade increase
- $1,019 Adj $$/Hr increase
- 22:30 Upgrade Time
- $1,513,675 upgrade cost + another $40,104 in lost wages
- ROI - $1,553,779 / $ 1,019 + 22:30 = 1,547 hrs

Flower Shop (currently L1)

- $5,060 Upgrade increase
- $460 Adj $$/Hr increase
- 7:12 Upgrade Time
- $835,000 upgrade cost + another $3,312 in lost wages
- ROI - $838,312 / $460 + 7:12 = 1,830 hrs

But, I do agree with 100% collection on both, Flower Shops come out ahead...it's close but they win.

[PawnXIIX]

Very interested in what do you think of the ratio of IpH/ROI,because that's what I'm using right now to decide what is my next high value upgrade,but I feel a little hard to explain it.

I'd love to give some more opinions but I just came back from a trip only to find that my ipod was left somewhere in a chair...Need to go find it in the morning but until then...well...
There goes all my buildings <.<

Basically right now i'm running strictly off a spreadsheet, usually I use the game a little bit when doing math out but...feels like i'm naked D:

[murf]

So, I just posted this in another thread and I wanted to hear from the $$/hr/hr people. Here is my argument against relying so heavily on upgrade time....

Church to L4 vs Upscale to L2: both 24hr buildings

Church:

Cost - $6,986,194
Addt'l IpH - $4,000
Upgrade Time - 24.58 hrs
ROI - 1771.12 hrs
Iph/upgrade hr - $162.73

Upscale:
Cost - $ 6,680,000
Addt'l IpH - $3,416
Upgrade Time - 18 Hrs
ROI - 1973.12 hrs
IpH/upgrade hr - $189.77

Most of you who use $$/hr/hr would choose the Upscale upgrade...while I think the Church upgrade is far better.

[Dreno33]

So, I just posted this in another thread and I wanted to hear from the $$/hr/hr people. Here is my argument against relying so heavily on upgrade time....

Church to L4 vs Upscale to L2: both 24hr buildings

Church:

Cost - $6,986,194
Addt'l IpH - $4,000
Upgrade Time - 24.58 hrs
ROI - 1771.12 hrs
Iph/upgrade hr - $162.73

Upscale:
Cost - $ 6,680,000
Addt'l IpH - $3,416
Upgrade Time - 18 Hrs
ROI - 1973.12 hrs
IpH/upgrade hr - $189.77

Most of you who use $$/hr/hr would choose the Upscale upgrade...while I think the Church upgrade is far better.

So... It looks like you based your decision off of ROI? or just the fact that for only 300k more you get a $600 better IPH increase?

[PawnXIIX]

Most of you who use $$/hr/hr would choose the Upscale upgrade...while I think the Church upgrade is far better.

For me and the way I'm going through the game, i've never even thought of considering the '$/hr/upgrade' hours formula. To me it just feels like time is never really a burden at those small periods. Maybe in the later upgrades I feel like it'd be more important, but the $/hr/hr upgrade to me just seems like it's not really a viable decider do to the small variation in results :/
I think the church upgrade is far better because it has a lower ROI and increases the IpH more than the club. I don't see $/hr/hr in this case as being a good decider between the two. Just me personally.


I've literally never heard of that...I had to calculate it out when I first read your post to figure out what you were calculating :P

[ShawnBB]

For me and the way I'm going through the game, i've never even thought of considering the '$/hr/upgrade' hours formula. To me it just feels like time is never really a burden at those small periods. Maybe in the later upgrades I feel like it'd be more important, but the $/hr/hr upgrade to me just seems like it's not really a viable decider do to the small variation in results :/
I think the church upgrade is far better because it has a lower ROI and increases the IpH more than the club. I don't see $/hr/hr in this case as being a good decider between the two. Just me personally.


I've literally never heard of that...I had to calculate it out when I first read your post to figure out what you were calculating :P

Good to see you back, Pawn :)

You are absolutely right here, I never put $/h/h as a consideration either.
When game goes in a self supply mode, ROI and IpH/ROI is what you really want to care about.
4000/1771 > 3416/1973. Actually much better here.

[PawnXIIX]

Good to see you back, Pawn :)

Where did I go? :P

IpH/ROI...is there a formal name for that figure?

[murf]

So... It looks like you based your decision off of ROI? or just the fact that for only 300k more you get a $600 better IPH increase?

It's the combination...better ROI, and increased IpH...and for that it costs you 300k and 6.58 hrs..

[murf]

For me and the way I'm going through the game, i've never even thought of considering the '$/hr/upgrade' hours formula. To me it just feels like time is never really a burden at those small periods. Maybe in the later upgrades I feel like it'd be more important, but the $/hr/hr upgrade to me just seems like it's not really a viable decider do to the small variation in results :/
I think the church upgrade is far better because it has a lower ROI and increases the IpH more than the club. I don't see $/hr/hr in this case as being a good decider between the two. Just me personally.


I've literally never heard of that...I had to calculate it out when I first read your post to figure out what you were calculating :P

If you read the forums enough, you will see it...and a few highly respected members advice using this formula, which I why I question it's relevance...hopefully one of them will reply to this thread.