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View Full Version : Don't let anyone tell you otherwise: Attack skill is useless.



i need muney
05-11-2012, 01:16 PM
Just lost 40.8k vs 36.5k with 261 Attack, which is consider A LOT.
High bet that defence is useless as well.

Sasha54
05-11-2012, 01:26 PM
Just lost 40.8k vs 36.5k with 261 Attack, which is consider A LOT.
High bet that defence is useless as well.

Hmmm - I've been using my skill points on it lately..............

dudeman
05-11-2012, 01:26 PM
How many times did you smack the btich? If it was just once then I would say keep trying. Could have been a fluke caused by that mysterious random element.

Plumbernick9
05-11-2012, 01:35 PM
Have you considered that the guy you lost to, has invested the same in defense points? I have close to 200 in defense skill, and i hardly ever get red in the news.

Vile Lynn
05-11-2012, 01:36 PM
Max benefit u get is sp at 100 level 200. Any extra is useless.

Where did you hear that?

Plumbernick9
05-11-2012, 01:37 PM
Where did you hear that?
He didn't hear it anywhere. Its a crap statement.

Dravak
05-11-2012, 01:40 PM
And again muney go look up that formula , there is a random element aside from attack and defense skills .

So did you lose 1 of the 10 fights , cause losing 1 of the 10 sometimes happens cause of other issues :p
So do a 10 fight and come back to me then with a conclusion .

Dravak
05-11-2012, 01:45 PM
jenny unless you come with concrete facts , that none of us will ever have , or a explanation like JLHY gave me in defense.

My testing shows otherwise , losing 1-2 fights is normal when the random element are not in your favor !
Especially with people close to eachother stats , cause the random lose streak is normal , once you start losing 5/10
Then something else is wrong .
What that random element is , I think I am almost nailing it down .

procsyzarc
05-11-2012, 01:47 PM
The 100 was from people who saw the formula. Everything after 100 is useless. However I'm not that sure. The higher the level the sp becomes incrementally stronger.

From my own exp. def sp at 98 it works. Atk sp at 91 and 191 the 100 extra is useless.

That whole post was proven to be crap. You really shouldn't make wild claims unless you can back them up with facts.

Vile Lynn
05-11-2012, 01:55 PM
The 100 was from people who saw the formula. Everything after 100 is useless. However I'm not that sure. The higher the level the sp becomes incrementally stronger.

From my own exp. def sp at 98 it works. Atk sp at 91 and 191 the 100 extra is useless.

Yeah, JJ ...it doesn't make any sense that Funzio would have an end event item cancel out all of the SPs allotted before winning that item.

Unless you can come up with lots of data supporting how your SPs are working, we don't need any more random thoughts about the contributions of SPs to the winning formula. Which people saw what formula?

Please enlighten us all with the facts because apparently you are the only one who has had concrete experience how SPs work.

dudeman
05-11-2012, 02:14 PM
I saw it from many posts but I can't find it. Doesn't matter if u don't believe it but I'm not going to invest any sp over 100.

The thread you are probably thinking of is Peacock's defense building and skill point thread in the stickied best-of-the-best.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?15058-Effect-of-Def-buildings-and-skill-points-against-rob-atk-by-Guru-Peacock-again..lol



Att/def Skill points contribution effect towards being atk/rob

At lvl 1, these values are both 1.09 for atk and def, at lvl 100 these values are both 10. It increases at an interval of 0.09 after each lv and it is cap at 10 from lv100-200

eg. If my current lvl is 150. So it's 10 x 300 of skills pts (if i invested 300 into def or atk) = 3000 extra which cannot be viewed from the fight/rob screen


I also think someone has misunderstood what was meant by the capped value of skill points.

Nobody said that skill points in excess of 100 do not add anything or have any benefit. The explanation given by Peacock says that the value/benefit of skill points increases until you reach level 100, and after level 100 all skill points are worth the same. In other words, 10 skill points at level 80 are worth more than 10 points at level 70, but 10 skill points at level 200 has the same value as 10 points at level 100.

Defense and attack skill points are apparently equal so if someone with 250 attack skill fights someone with 250 defense skill, the fight could easily go either way depending on the player's equipment stats.

Whoopdido1980
05-11-2012, 02:17 PM
So, if you don't put your skill points towards attack, where else would you put them?

I currently have 1,400 energy, which is about 8 hours worth. I don't have the item that allows you to regain energy quicker. If I'm away from my device for more than 8 hours, I just deal with it. I've gone the entire game with only 8 stamina. I'm almost done with Thug Life--currently on 285, so I don't see any reason to put skill points towards stamina at this point. That only leaves attack and defense. I've found that other players typically are not successful when they try to attack me right now. I lose robberies all the time, but I don't think my defense will ever be twice my rivals offense. Typically you'll be able to rob somebody if your offense is more than half their defense right? Plus, when I start playing with the sharks in a few levels, no amount of defense will keep me safe, so what's the point of putting skill points to defense? That only leaves attack

I just figure I might as well put as much to attack as possible so I'm as strong as possible.

Currently I have:

Attack 290
Defense 14
Energy 1400
Stamina 8

Yahkin
05-11-2012, 02:33 PM
I'm really not sure why they put attack/defense numbers in skills, on items, or in rewards at all. The numbers seem to be completely worthless anyway. I regularly rob people with twice as much D as my offense, and attacking people with 5-10k more D tends to be fairly easy as well. I completely understand the need to have some randomization to keep things interesting, but the current completely hidden and seemingly worthless formula in place now is just aggravating.

I find it tough to spend $50 on a gold item that purports to give me 200 more defense, when in reality I have no idea how much more defense it provides and those people who haven't spent a dime can continue to steal from me at will.

blondealex
05-11-2012, 02:45 PM
Back on topic.

Even if the person that you lost against has no points in def skills, your total attack still falls shy of the 85% rule of thumb for random factor.

<36,898 with no defense skill points is the point in which you shouldn't lose.

Yahkin
05-11-2012, 02:46 PM
Back on topic.

Even if the person that you lost against has no points in def skills, your total attack still falls shy of the 85% rule of thumb for random factor.

<36,898 with no defense skill points is the point in which you shouldn't lose.

What is this rule of thumb based on?

dudeman
05-11-2012, 02:50 PM
Yes yes that's one of the. Also tramp stamps one somewhere. I meant adds 10 each after Lv 100

Regarding how they increase with Lv, here:


Originally Posted by Swearengen
Forgive my stupidity what is "CW's & FGC"?
Chain Whips (melee) and Full Combat Gear (armor). If I typed FGC, I meant to type FCG.

Originally Posted by Swearengen
Curious what folks are putting into their skill pts? I think i have all in ATK, Stamina & Energy only 1 or 2 in def total...
I was holding out and saving mine for the last 11 levels. I dumped all 33 into defense. No one really knows how skill points factor in, but this post from CCM is an indicator.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthre...ll=1#post54128

That thread got deleted.

Maybe it's just me, but that quote seems almost completely irrelevant. Is that even a complete web address for that "deleted post" link?

Dravak
05-11-2012, 03:32 PM
Jenny it is ok , just drop it , cause the Attack skills and defense skills has been in overhaul , what we only know ..
Is simply
total items + attackskill + random element vs total items + % of defense buildings + defense skill + random element .
the + might not be + , but rather a multiplier or divider , who knows and they will not give the reasons.
So all we have is speculations or a formula people can test for themself .

Swifty
05-11-2012, 03:46 PM
CCMark made a comment one time (and, no, I do not have the link) that we (the forum people) do not understand how attack and defense works.

In my own personal case, he is 100% correct.

Nicholost
05-11-2012, 03:53 PM
Edit:

This is too confusing. Everything would be more easier if I can just remember hs post.

Fortunately, I happened to copy and save the post you are looking for. Even luckier, a few of us were just talking about this a few days ago. Here's what I wrote on the subject...


CCM had a great post awhile back where he said the contribution of skill points is as follows:
Skill contribution = (amount of skill points)*(multiplier based on level) + total att/def
That is a direct quote from CCM in this (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?9971-Attack-and-Defense-bought-with-skill-points&p=54129#post54129) thread, which was deleted within the last month. IMO, them deleting that thread adds validity to that equation.

Tramp Stamp and other forum OGs concluded that the multiplier is as follows (clicky (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?20728-Att-vs-Def&p=123752#post123752)):
Multiplier = 1.09 + 0.09 * (level - 1)
If Multiplier > 10 then Multiplier = 10

So in my case, at level 96 with 66 defense skill points, my defense skill point contribution looks like this:
(1.09 + 0.09 * (96 - 1)) = 9.64
9.64 * 66 = 636.24

i need muney
05-11-2012, 04:11 PM
How many times did you smack the btich? If it was just once then I would say keep trying. Could have been a fluke caused by that mysterious random element.
This and all of the like:
You don't get it, that the exact point why they are useless. You invest helluva lot and they can't even offset some random factor. In tighter perspective, you would expect a change from a hyped up event item, but no, that does not happen.
And I asked the guy, no, he does not have much in his defence sp, so yeah...

Nicholost
05-11-2012, 04:18 PM
And I asked the guy, no, he does not have much in his defence sp, so yeah...
That's because he had it all in his defense. :p

i need muney
05-11-2012, 04:20 PM
That's because he had it all in his defense. :p
You have all in your nose.

Nudie
05-11-2012, 04:47 PM
Why didn't anyone tell me this before I sunk all my skill points into Attack? Gah!!!! I demand a refund!!! Or at least a reset!!!!

blondealex
05-11-2012, 04:50 PM
This and all of the like:
You don't get it, that the exact point why they are useless. You invest helluva lot and they can't even offset some random factor. In tighter perspective, you would expect a change from a hyped up event item, but no, that does not happen.
And I asked the guy, no, he does not have much in his defence sp, so yeah...
With your skill points added it was under the 85% random factor. Your skill points add 2,610 not 20k.

mnju_03
05-11-2012, 04:51 PM
I demand a pizza!

Yahkin
05-11-2012, 05:28 PM
With your skill points added it was under the 85% random factor. Your skill points add 2,610 not 20k.

Again you reference an 85% random factor. Where is this "rule of thumb" coming from? Do you know something we don't, or is this just your experience?

blondealex
05-11-2012, 05:38 PM
Again you reference an 85% random factor. Where is this "rule of thumb" coming from? Do you know something we don't, or is this just your experience?
It used to be posted much more, I used it when I was going through the consecutive wins fight goals and I think there was only one time that it did not work, and it was a much lower level and stats so skill points probably had quite a bit to do with that.

Dravak
05-11-2012, 05:40 PM
Again you reference an 85% random factor. Where is this "rule of thumb" coming from? Do you know something we don't, or is this just your experience?

He knows something you don't ... sorry too bad for you .
Life is unfair for most , some of the posters are in a beta session where they get more info , then us public players.
Sometimes they don't even know what the final verdict will be !

Simple as that . sometimes even mark doesn't know the changes either , cause they decide to mess around last minute ...

So what do you want to do about it ?

Babytway
05-11-2012, 05:55 PM
im telling you otherwise, attack skill matters, i dont have any gold weapons, very few crate weapons maybe 12-15 and my attack skill is what gets me to rob the crap outta ppl who have 60-70+ gold/crate weapons

its the ppl who have attacks skills in def that counteracts your atk skills

Plumbernick9
05-11-2012, 06:33 PM
im telling you otherwise, attack skill matters, i dont have any gold weapons, very few crate weapons maybe 12-15 and my attack skill is what gets me to rob the crap outta ppl who have 60-70+ gold/crate weapons

its the ppl who have attacks skills in def that counteracts your atk skills

Exactly. However, You still can't break my defense girlie.

emcee
05-11-2012, 07:03 PM
200 skill points into attack may not be noticeable. Anyone with 500 or more might be able to shed a light on things as I doubt there are too many players with 500 sp invested into defense.
I have over 200 sp in attack and have not lost a fight since late last year.

Yahkin
05-11-2012, 07:16 PM
He knows something you don't ... sorry too bad for you .
Life is unfair for most , some of the posters are in a beta session where they get more info , then us public players.
Sometimes they don't even know what the final verdict will be !

Simple as that . sometimes even mark doesn't know the changes either , cause they decide to mess around last minute ...

So what do you want to do about it ?

Your posts are always so confrontational. I guess I'll just assume it's because English is not your first language.

emcee
05-11-2012, 07:19 PM
Your posts are always so confrontational. I guess I'll just assume it's because English is not your first language.

He's a little emotional at times just like us campers :p

ICEMAN0023
05-11-2012, 08:25 PM
Your posts are always so confrontational. I guess I'll just assume it's because English is not your first language.

What I have found is being confrontational is the only way to get a point across within these Forum walls.

Some get it,others claim to get it,most think they got it when no one has a damn clue!

mnju_03
05-11-2012, 08:26 PM
What I have found is being confrontational is the only way to get a point across within these Forum walls.

Some get it,others claim to get it,most think they got it when no one has a damn clue!

Down with homework!

dudeman
05-11-2012, 08:32 PM
Again you reference an 85% random factor. Where is this "rule of thumb" coming from? Do you know something we don't, or is this just your experience?

Many people have discovered this rule of thumb by trial and error. This sort of thing used to be discussed more when the game was still relatively new on iOS devices because a lot of the conversation around here was about the game and how it works.

Not so much anymore, but sometimes a few topics come up for review. :)

i need muney
05-14-2012, 08:46 PM
"A/D skill points are insignificant"
There.