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tightwad
05-09-2012, 07:14 PM
Ok. Building Defense and Inventory Defense. If my total defense is 1000, for example, does it make a difference whether Im being attacked or robbed? Meaning, are the buildings(defense) strictly for robbing and my Inventory(defense) just for fighting?

CounterSniper
05-09-2012, 07:19 PM
See white frogs answer below (post #6)

It's more wordy but much more specific & detailed.

+1 to white frog.

Leopold Stotch
05-09-2012, 07:28 PM
i stopped adding points to my "SKILLS" defense after around 45, and i now realize after reading these forums that i was stupid to even give that many points to defense. seems better to just put all your skill points into stamina and energy for missions

nopenopenope
05-09-2012, 07:33 PM
Since no one knows for sure what the true effects Attack & Defense skill points do to the fight/rob calculation, I don't see how one could consider allocation to them "stupid".

Dravak
05-09-2012, 07:41 PM
Am still testing the defense skill on robberies effect , but so far since hardly people attack me back.

Bit let say the 100 attack of people bankbuster have a huge impact on robberies ,
Those with the same stats without them , cannot break trough to rob me .
Those with have a hard time even getting trough my 175 defense , no babytway I Am counting you out !
Will never have that much defense skill to stop you :p

But like said nothing is confirmed , it just testing it out and trying to get people to rob me with high stats .
with or without bankbusters . but so far most give up , maybe am costing them too much explosives.

white frog
05-09-2012, 07:51 PM
First, you need to understand the effective defense that your defense buildings provide. Once you have this, that is what is added to your attack and robbery defense.

When being robbed, you get 100% of the effective defense from buildings, 50% total defense from equipment, your stat defense with the multiplier that depends on your level, the buildings "unknown" defense #, and the random aspect (which is 100% a mystery).

When being attacked, you get 100% of the effective defense from buildings, 100% total defense from equipment, your stat defense..., and the random aspect!

Dreno33
05-09-2012, 07:53 PM
@ WHITE FROG

please read my PM i just sent(:

Dravak
05-09-2012, 08:47 PM
First, you need to understand the effective defense that your defense buildings provide. Once you have this, that is what is added to your attack and robbery defense.

When being robbed, you get 100% of the effective defense from buildings, 50% total defense from equipment, your stat defense with the multiplier that depends on your level, the buildings "unknown" defense #, and the random aspect (which is 100% a mystery).

When being attacked, you get 100% of the effective defense from buildings, 100% total defense from equipment, your stat defense..., and the random aspect!


Sadly whitefrog the 100% from defense buildings (not level of defense if upgraded money building) is a myth for robberies , When I win attacks , I will all robberies ... no matter what defense buildings they ad, have tested this on people with twice the defense value in building ..
The max they ad is maybe 20%-33% (sure low level stats the defense buildings of free 1-8 ads up, high level it doesn't )

When you being attacked No defense buildings stats are added at all ...this I can confirm .

So even with 49k defense total (buildings and equipment) half that number is only 24.5k ..
I shouldn't prevent robberies from 30k at all , sadly takes 34k to break trough to rob me with 45-55% success ratio . so basically it has something to do with defense skills .

white frog
05-09-2012, 08:52 PM
Sadly whitefrog the 100% from defense buildings (not level of defense if upgraded money building) is a myth for robberies , When I win attacks , I will all robberies ... no matter what defense buildings they ad, have tested this on people with twice the defense value in building ..
The max they ad is maybe 20%-33% (sure low level stats the defense buildings of free 1-8 ads up, high level it doesn't )

When you being attacked No defense buildings stats are added at all ...this I can confirm .

So even with 49k defense total (buildings and equipment) half that number is only 24.5k ..
I shouldn't prevent robberies from 30k at all , sadly takes 34k to break trough to rob me with 45-55% success ratio . so basically it has something to do with defense skills .
Sadly Dravak, you didn't pay attention to what I actually said in the above post. I was talking about EFFECTIVE defense from buildings, not the profile defense. Very different, and yes, the effective defense is applied to both attacks and robberies!

ps. To all... sorry if I'm being moody tonight... I had a terrible day!

doinkent
05-09-2012, 08:52 PM
when you get attacked your defence buildings dont count. i attacked some guy yesterday his hood was full of defence buildings and his profile said around 10k defence, i attacked him and it was only 8k.

white frog
05-09-2012, 08:58 PM
I'm walking away from this one before I say something I'll regret!

doinkent
05-09-2012, 09:00 PM
say it........

Dravak
05-09-2012, 09:00 PM
white frog go attack somebody and count the defense buildings stats they have ..
Then you will see the real numbers when you attack , they are never the same as the profile .

So defensebuildings do not ad to defense at all for attacks .
They only ad to robberies , when effective buildings is example 10 , those are easily tested with robbing LM.

So you might be grumpy , but care to explain what you mean ?

doinkent
05-09-2012, 09:02 PM
white frog go attack somebody and count the defense buildings stats they have ..
Then you will see the real numbers when you attack , they are never the same as the profile .

So defensebuildings do not ad to defense at all for attacks .
They only ad to robberies , when effective buildings is example 10 , those are easily tested with robbing LM.

So you might be grumpy , but care to explain what you mean ?

i agree with this

deuces
05-09-2012, 09:12 PM
you guys are being dense. when he says effective defense, he means say for a missile turret with 42 defense at level 1 and 84 listed defense at level 2, with that building at level 2, the EFFECTIVE DEFENSE OF THE BUILDING is applied against robberies/attacks. THE EFFECTIVE DEFENSE IN THIS SCENARIO WOULD BE 42+21 (half of the upgraded defense #) = 63.

white frog
05-09-2012, 09:14 PM
I find it hilarious that you're telling me to go out and test this. I'm actually one of the few here who spent weeks testing how this all works, and I can confirm that there is indeed a defense from buildings that is added when defending attacks. It is very complicated, and yes, the amount of defense is very small.

I promise you, I have proven this many, many times! When defending against an attack, the EFFECTIVE defense (which is already significantly lower than the profile defense) is halved, making it even more ridiculous! For example, the profile defense of a Level 5 Guard Dog is 160. The EFFECTIVE defense of that building is only 60! 100% of this is added when defending against robberies, and 50% (30) is added when defending attacks.

Once again, this has been proven many, many times!
See below:

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?15058-Effect-of-Def-buildings-and-skill-points-against-rob-atk-by-Guru-Peacock-again..lol&highlight=peacock

doinkent
05-09-2012, 09:19 PM
wow well i never knew it was so complicated. i understand what youre saying so thanks for clearing it up

nopenopenope
05-09-2012, 09:32 PM
listen to white frog. *ahem*


There's some good info in here.

Fight defense looks like this:

Total item defense + Building defense + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)

Rob defense looks like this:

1/2 total item defense + Building defense + (contribution from defense skill calculation) +/- (random element)

Dravak
05-09-2012, 09:40 PM
Yes that is the post , sadly total defense from building has been nerfed ...(refer to AMG post way way back when the change happened) , am not saying what you state is wrong .

But I notice a huge decrease of robbery , am trying to pin point down to defenseskill , or the random element .
and the random element is a greater factor in defending against robberies then I tought .

Or the defenseskill is a greater element . or maybe both are of equel importance .

Edit or could be defense buildings have been unnerfed slightly .

jlhy
05-09-2012, 09:47 PM
Just a little insert to try to help to simplify the calculations.


http://crimecityios.wikia.com/wiki/Defense_Buildings


Look at the Mafia D section on each building. Thats the total amount of defense the building will provide you against attacks per level of the defense building. (defense number in the fight screen).

You get the full value of a level 1 defense building. Every level after that takes half the value of its initial level.

For example:
Level 4 Abandoned Building would increase your attack defense by 5 (2+1+1+1=5)
Level 4 Guard Tower would increase your attack defense by 7.5 (3+1.5+1.5+1.5=7.5)
Level 4 Bodyguard Agency would increase your attack defense by 25 points (10+5+5+5=25).
Level 4 Muay Thai center would increase your attack defense by 45 (18+9+9+9=45)
Level 4 Gattling Turret would increase your attack defense by 62.5 (25+12.5+12.5+12.5=62.5)
Level 4 Sniper's Den would increase your attack defense by 80 (32+16+16+16=80)

The tycoon bonus value doesn't apply to attack defense value.

Note that this is for defense against attacks (fight screen defense numbers). The rob screen value used to have a separate defense value from the fight screen but funzio merged them together so the rob screen defense is now the same as the fight screen defense, making it very difficult to figure out calculations for rob defense.

iteachem
05-09-2012, 10:04 PM
I appreciate all of the work the frog and others did on this. What I love is that few realize it outside the forum and that is a key advantage for me. I have been hitting people with seriously insane def stats for the level and taking serious cash from their NCs etc. I think they are genuinely shocked that someone with an attack of 7k lower can hit them so easily..

Dravak
05-09-2012, 10:07 PM
Thanks JLHY makes sense to me what you said . so I can stop figuring out why :) .

tightwad
04-25-2013, 07:09 PM
Ok new question, Does all of the %;s that we are adding with the syndicate .....does that only kick in when we fight with the syndicate or is the % always there in a normal everyday fight??? does anyone know, thank you in advance =)

mxz
04-25-2013, 07:14 PM
Ok new question, Does all of the %;s that we are adding with the syndicate .....does that only kick in when we fight with the syndicate or is the % always there in a normal everyday fight??? does anyone know, thank you in advance =)It always works as long as you're a member of the syndicate.

tightwad
04-25-2013, 07:15 PM
thank you =)

OneHoop
04-26-2013, 12:35 PM
This is my favorite defense reference thread:
tinyurl.com/CCdefense (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?36507-Defense-Buildings)

I have long proffered that defense building upgrades are a waste of time that should have been spent on IPH, but have been doing L2 upgrades during down times and when saving for NC upgrades. Partly because all of the long upgrade times for most remaining money buildings and partly because robberies are becoming more of a problem.

It always cracks me up when someone in my news feed fails at robbery and THEN fails at attack. The other way around would make more sense or to fail many times at robbery where the random element may make up for having a lower attack.

I do suspect that the defensive skill point contribution for robberies is higher than 10/pt, but that's just based upon the relative robbery rates for my two characters--not a statistical sample.


M@

Ben Weston
04-26-2013, 04:01 PM
the claims that you get 100% effective defence on robs and only 50% on attacks is simply wrong, as everyone else in the game has found attacks are harder complete successfully than robs. my attack is ~102k and can rob people with advertised defence of +140k and fight screen defence of +120k but only win 25-50% of fights with people of 105k and above

tjj
04-26-2013, 08:40 PM
not sure how this game is fair in any way every rival is 5000 or more higher than my attack and defense, while level may be the same but their mafia also shows the same as mine but when i look at their profile they have double my mafia. took 180,000 out to buy a building and in seconds was robbed for 112 thousand. how is that even possible the most i ever got was 3grand off someone...literally seconds after i took money out it was taken. this game is a joke i think and if i didnt have so much time invested i would just sell everything i had and uninstall the app but if im pissed enough to quit the game i'll be an idiot to spend more time to clear my hood.

bald zeemer
04-26-2013, 10:37 PM
You can get a maximum of $30k when attacking somebody.

If you are significantly weaker than everyone in your bracket then you need to start camping, ASAP, until you are competitive.

Ben Weston
04-27-2013, 09:17 AM
As above, make sure your maximising your chances, if your level 100 or above then make sure you have 500 mafia and 500 of each weapon class, the easiest way to tell is by looking at how many items you used during a fight, anything less than 2500 and your limiting yourself by not being sufficiently equipped.

out of interest what level are you and what are your stats?