Unit order with Boost Building

[Freekizh]

I saw this somewhere way back in a long post, but I cant find it.

If you have Unit A with 10A/30D and unit B with 10A/5D unit, and unit B has a building boost, which one comes first into attack battle.

Thanks.

[War Priest]

The one with the boost, Unit B.

[JohnnyR]

Anyone with hard evidence on that?

This is a really good question. Might need better stat meat shields to keep defense out of attack group....not so good. :-(

[Freekizh]

The one with the boost, Unit B.

Thanks again Sir!

[What?]

Johnny R special Venal fighters have attack 39 while super hornets have 36 yet with my boost buildings and nation the super hornets are shown as being stronger as the order of units.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj105/slowmotionnoob/IMG_0099-2.png

[JohnnyR]

Cool What? and thanks for the confirm. Guess this at least notes that the boosts really do have an affect.

[JMC]

Im not sure if Boost buildings effect it, but i do know that nation bonus does.

I will try it with an air unit and a ground unit with the same strength and see what happens.

EDIT: Just checked and i already have something like this set up. Mobile artillery, and typhoon tiger. Both have 21 attack, yet the mobile artillery shows up as stronger. Also have a dispatch aircraft, 21 attack, indestructible unit. Also below the mobile artillery. All while my air bonus is 8% and my ground bonus is only 6%. Both the typhoon tiger and dispatch aircraft have better casualty rates, as well as higher defence stats than the mobile artillery.

Building boosts do not effect unit order.

I can confirm that nation boost does though, as i have many different examples where units with even 3 less attack are listed higher because they have 10% boosts.

[JohnnyR]

That is weird but good, JMC. Means my air boost won't bring my defensive units into battle if it gets close.

[War Priest]

I was hoping that once I get my hanger to 10 that most of my Jets would be the top units. Scratch that plan...

[Aidan]

If two type of units have the same attack stat then the one with the higher def always go first. That has always been the case for me

[Maverick50727]

If two type of units have the same attack stat then the one with the higher def always go first. That has always been the case for meNo that is not the case. I'll post some scenarios tomorrow if I can. I recorded some but don't have then handy at the moment.

[War Priest]

Strange, that is also the case for me... :confused:

[manbeast]

newsflash!!! its 100% random.

i was using jet fighters (3atk 1 def $4k) as meat shields

then i started buying sea scouts (3atk 17def $110k) for def. at the time i was USA, didnt even have a naval research center. had air hanger lvl 3

every fight i would bring something different to battle. sometimes i'd bring all fighters, no sea scouts. somtimes i'd bring all 150 sea scouts, the rest fighters, sometimes i'd bring like half of my sea scouts, the rest fighters. it makes no sense

[JMC]

If two type of units have the same attack stat then the one with the higher def always go first. That has always been the case for me

If you didn't see i also mentioned that in my post.

The mobile artillery, typhoon tiger and dispatch aircraft all have 21 attack.

Mobile artillery has only 13 defence while the typhoon tiger has 14 defence and the dispatch aircraft has 45 defence. This proves that the defence stats have nothing to do with which unit appears higher. Going off casualty rates, which i also mentioned i proved that the casualty rate does not effect the order as well.

I am thinking that if the stats are the same, it just goes by order of infantry-ground-air-sea. As that is the order in which the units are displayed in the tabs when looking at inventory or the store.

[JMC]

Since my last post i have used some tapjoy gold to change nations to russia. I am now comparing some of my infantry units to my sea units. And i've got to say my last statement is wrong. The aquatic explorer 40a/38d is listed above the airborne decimator 40a/43d. In 2 other situations it seemed to work where infantry was placed above sea units and ground units, but at the same time there are 2 situations where it goes out of order. Also does not order alphabetically. Currently have no idea how units with the same stats are ordered. I have so far eliminated boost buildings, casualty rate, defence stats, unit type and alphabetical order. Types of units in terms of cash/gold/loot also seem to be random, with some cash units beating loot and some loot units beating cash. Strong against rating also plays no role. Ghost hounds 22a/18d beat stealth boats 22a/19d strong against sea.

The only one i am currently unsure of is amount of units. I have 4 biowarfare troops vs 450 m270 MLRSs, so perhaps the less you have puts it above. But i have no 2 other units that are like this. All my other matching units are 1:1 or ghost hounds and stealth boats are 3:3.

I would buy a stealth boat, but currently it is already listed under my ghost hounds, so it wouldn't really prove that having less of a unit puts it higher up on the list.

The only thing currently that makes sense is that each unit has an ID number, probably in order of which they were created. The game goes off this number and they are ordered in numerical order. Someone with the XML files might know something like that.

[Aidan]

Sorry guys, i was wrong. Def stat has nothing to do with unit order. JMC and Mav were right.

This is my screenshot
The middle unit are typhoon tiger (21/14), iron wing (21/16) and last one dispatch aircraft (21/45)

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/sly715091/e6d84cdd.jpg

Manbeast was also right. I remembered when my bradley and my warthog seems to alternate with each other when attacking. So i guess, it's random. There is no explanation to these

[Hellstorm]

I have had the same experience, weird alternations. It seems you are all right in this. But than the question comes up, what makes it alternate? And why?

[Hellstorm]

I would've come up with the theories, or actual facts, that all of you mentioned. All the different scenarios occur, I have seen me all. Nation boost beats same stat units, boost building however not. What? Had probably his nation boost that put the SH in front of the venal fighters. Man, this forum consists of modern war scientists, trying to figure out and explain the unexplainable universe of MW ;) too many einsteins though! Haha

[Maverick50727]

I would've come up with the theories, or actual facts, that all of you mentioned. All the different scenarios occur, I have seen me all. Nation boost beats same stat units, boost building however not. What? Had probably his nation boost that put the SH in front of the venal fighters. Man, this forum consists of modern war scientists, trying to figure out and explain the unexplainable universe of MW ;) too many einsteins though! HahaOK are you ready? I seem to be one of those scientists, but I have yet to figure it out. For all we know it could be a bug. Funzio hasn't ever stated how it works, so we can only guess and try to put logic to it.

[Maverick50727]

Sorry, I haven’t been able to get back with you guys. Yes JMC I see you tried to put the same logic to it and failed. I’ve tested all of them already too and more, but I have never found it to be consistent. I’ve been trying for months and haven’t figured it out, it is either random when ties happen or some multiple criteria that only Funzio knows. I’ve been collecting scenarios for a month and every time I think I have a pattern, it later gets shot down. I had mentioned a few times about starting a thread on this topic, so this is not really a hijack, as we are looking at unit order. Here are 3 units as they appear in order of my attack. I can tell you I can rule out Quantity. These even go against the higher defense first rule in the event of a tie. LOL. It is not by consumer % or by casualty. Not by ID or display order which are values found in the plist data files (all loot has display order of 999). I can even rule out the % boost it seems, I have other units that go 4%, 8%, and 6%. I don’t have any nation bonus so I can’t debate you on that one though, but maybe some else can.

Example 1:
Dragon Soldier Qty 3 20/15 Low 4% .009 consume
Ghost Operative Qty 45 20/19 Low 4% .015
Drone Tank Qty 20/20 Low 6% .002

I will even go as far that maybe even the order in the attack results may not indicate a unit is stronger period. If this was the case then the absolute last unit would be you lowest then and if you got a higher unit, the last unit qty would be reduced by 1. Not the case. Here are my last 3 in my list.

Example 2:
Bombardment Frigates (116 of 299) 13/12 4% boost
Pavelow Heli (10 of 10) 13/14 8% boost (note here that the highest def unit is in the middle)
Leopard Tank (6 of 6) 13/12 6% boost

In Example 2, if Leopard Tanks are last in the list, why don’t they drop. I even added the pavelows recently which pushed more of the B. Frigates out which were above it (stronger?). In another thread to KCh recently I documented that I had only 2 Medium units in my army which were 2 Leopard Tanks in my bottom 3 units, so couldn’t easily get rid of them to test something else as I thought I had to drop all my B. Frigates first.

B. Frigates (182 of X) 12/13
Leopard Tank (2 of 2) 12/13
Artillery Gunner (7 of 7) 12/13

I don’t know what change but it wasn’t ally count, some loot and cash units were added. But a little while later the 2 Leopards dropped out and left me B. Frigates and Artillery Gunners as my lowest. Then suddenly Leopards were back in my list of lowest units dropping this time the Artillery Gunner instead as you can see above in example 2, but I had added Pavelows and 4 more Leopard Tanks to meet some missions requirements.

It appears in the event of a tie sometimes your units may be allocated based on some infantry, ground, sea, air ratio. At least that seems the only explanation, as people with 1000 Super Hornets don’t see them change, but nothing really ties with them on stats. See if you guys see any patterns of changes in units, I don’t see them change from attack to attack like some do, but if you lost a unit that affects the %, maybe. I have only noticed weird changes on my very bottom most lowest units, but that is where I pay the most attention. I’ll post another example of a weird allocation in a minute to really confuse people.

[Maverick50727]

Riddle me this Batman, what is my lowest units going to battle?
OK, here is an example of a strange one I documented in the past of how my lowest units in the attack list changed drastically.
65 Cruisers 12/16
33 Mine Launchers 11/26
1 Raiding Caravan 11/15
63 of 66 Submarines 10/8
Total 162 lowest units

In an event this was my order of the lowest units to battle, no purchases, no ally count changes, no boost upgrade completions. The above was recorded in one attack, the next thing that happened was that the timer ran out and I opened a case/box, the reward was Government Patrol 11/18. OK so being attack 11, it would push out 1 submarine like all other stronger additions had been doing, right?
NOT!!!! This was recorded in the next attack minutes later.
65 Cruisers 12/16
33 Mine Launchers 11/26
1 Government Patrol 11/18
1 Raiding Caravan 11/15
36 of 66 Submarines 10/8
25 SEALS 10/10
1 Contraband Plane 10/16
Total 162 lowest units

WTF? Not 62 subs? The 62 was distributed across Subs, SEALS and a Contraband Plane? Sea, Infantry and Air units that had tied 10 Attacks stats?
OK, I thought let me add an ally to bring 4 more units, yes my sub count went from 36 to 40 of 66 used.
I haven’t seen this drastic a change in my units often, but I am US and can’t debate any possible changes Nation bonus others may see. All the units while reallocated, kept have the same Attack value so my I saw zero change in my stats. You can’t see Strong Against in your stats but in my case the subs and SEALS both had a Strong Against Sea bonus and didn’t really lose it. But I can’t guarantee that will always be the case, I just had a tendency to use only units with strong against or very low consumption rates, so it could be possible you lose the 25% diminishing value it provides. Not sure there. Even worse the units got reallocated in different classes so I did have20% sea bonus in theory at the time but no or smaller infantry bonus and I had a UK nation bonus, these small unit changes if in great enough qty can affect your stats.

This is possibly the reason why a few have stated that when adding stronger units their stats actually went down. It is normally related to someone dropping you as an ally or delays in losses/news feed. But even if you have none of those, I can see where it is possible if your nation, boost bonuses and affected quantity of units can cause this in rare occasions. Since I’m US and my boost are only 4-8%, I can’t verify how these swings can be seen or how often, in theory the higher your boosts, nation bonuses and # of units with ties probably makes it worse.

A final note to point out is that many people can only see their top 45 units in the attack display anyway so you can’t tell what is really going on. I have used my ally count and unit purchases to control the number of units I use so I can see them all, so I can see these weird changes that many never know happen to their units beyond their capacity to see. Yet another flaw in events that will affect us all at some point. Each event adds 2-3 new indestructible units to our battle group, so eventually in a few more events I may not be able to see all my battle group units because of these rewards pushing me past the 45 limit. I sure how that Funzio removes with 45 display limit or make it an option that players can change if they think it will affect resources and stability, give us the option to increase so we can see what is being used. Also an option to see what units we use on the defense side, because nobody knows what happens there as we can’t see it at all.

[War Priest]

That is strange. I wouldn't notice anything like that on mine because I only get 1 of each gold unit, but I have noticed something like that with one of my rivals.

[Agent Orange]

Only other thing I can think of is that some stats don't refresh in real time. I noticed this when adding units, had to quit out of the app and then open it and then my stats made sense again.

Going OT a bit, the game itself seems to have it's own way of weighting things that is contrary to what we think is logical eg valour units seem to be more expendable than other units and I have noticed that loot units seem to be even more prone to losses than other units with lower stats.

I also suspect the devs have some way or rigging the loss rates, when we had the original mix up with the Stealth Frigate stats many of us had stockpiled these things. I think I had over 800 at one point but then suddenly the loss rates were messed with and I was loosing them faster than light gunners. So as much as we can glean some data from the game files I have a feeling they aren't the entire story.

[manbeast]

when we had the original mix up with the Stealth Frigate stats many of us had stockpiled these things.


whats the story behind this?